Tipping Poll

[SparklyUnicorn]

Oh I don't recall going anywhere with a restaurant tax.  Maybe NYC?  I rarely go there though.

 

 

[bettyandbob]

It probably doesn't happen in the US as much, but when traveling to some other not as developed countries, multiple servers have informed us that they don't ever see tips if they aren't left in cash. The owners keep them. I know I can't "prove" their stories, but it honestly doesn't surprise me if it's true, so that's when we made it our policy to almost always leave cash - and always in these types of countries. There's no difference in cost to us one way or another, so I err on the side that is most likely to help.

I'm not the world traveler you are. (I wish I was) However, I'm well aware tipping is completely different outside the US and would only leave cash in that situation.

 

I assumed this thread was referring to tipping in the US.

[Night Elf]

I've never heard of tipping on the pre-tax amount. Makes some sense. Unfortunately, I have a dd who used to be a server who depended on tips and I know how hard it was for her to make money. I always tip 20% and if the service is really good I tip more. I enjoy leaving big tips for people I think deserve it. I know it brings a smile to their faces.

[creekland]

I'm not the world traveler you are. (I wish I was) However, I'm well aware tipping is completely different outside the US and would only leave cash in that situation.

 

I assumed this thread was referring to tipping in the US.

 

This thread most certainly is.  My mind was just rambling and filling in gaps as to how we got our own personal policy of leaving cash for tips.  ;)

 

I enjoy leaving big tips for people I think deserve it. I know it brings a smile to their faces.

 

Same here.  I like to reward folks who are working for a living - esp since they are doing jobs I would detest personally (maids and servers).

[poppy]

Pre-tax tipping is customary, not stingy.

 

http://www.etiquettescholar.com/dining_etiquette/tipping_etiquette.html

 

"The internet" is not a good authority on anything, as you can find support for any viewpoint. 

 

To me the amount of difference is pretty small and the act of avoiding the total to find the "pre-tax amount" is just a little act of stingness.  I've split 7000 meals- business meals, family meals, casual meals, romantic meals - and I can't ever remember someone saying "but what's the SUBtotal"? 

[creekland]

 I can't ever remember someone saying "but what's the SUBtotal"? 

 

I've never seen this either TBH.  But we do know people who feel 10% is adequate - or just a couple of bucks - regardless of what the total is or how much work was involved.  Kids at school (who work in restaurants) also tell me some customers just don't tip - period.  They don't forget and it isn't just "them" or their service - they are regulars in the restaurants and don't tip - ever.  To me, those are the stingy people, esp since my state doesn't have the usual minimum wage applying to servers.

[VaKim]

I voted other. I am old. I tip according to how good or bad the service was, regardless of the price. Sometimes, if the server is very bad, they get nothing. We have had really good ones that we would tip more than 50% (we are poor, so think Golden Corral, not coat and tie restaurant). 

[bettyandbob]

I've never seen this either TBH.  But we do know people who feel 10% is adequate - or just a couple of bucks - regardless of what the total is or how much work was involved.  Kids at school (who work in restaurants) also tell me some customers just don't tip - period.  They don't forget and it isn't just "them" or their service - they are regulars in the restaurants and don't tip - ever.  To me, those are the stingy people, esp since my state doesn't have the usual minimum wage applying to servers.

my late grandmother always left $2 no matter what the bill was. 

 

dh used make an excuse to go to the rest room as soon as we knew the waitress was and give her a bunch of cash, usually an amount that would probably equal the bill in the end. He'd always get a confused response and have to explain they would be getting an inadequate tip by the person who was paying the bill. Giving a good tip up front always resulted in good service. Grandma would have been angry if she'd figured out what we were doing. I think a lot of people of her generation (she'd be over a 100 if alive) were stingy tippers. 

[Serenade]

Currently that's 20%, though it used to be 15%

Why did it change, though? Does anybody know? Was it just a campaign by the food service industry to encourage people to pay more? I've often wondered about this. Since a tip is a percentage, the amount automatically increases with inflation.

 

I tip around 18%, which I still consider a good tip, and I usually tip on the total. I do tend to tip a bit more if I have a really small order, though.

[Serenade]

I like how they do it in Germany.  You just round the bill up.  So they get a few cents.  Lot less pressure that way!

I like the European way, too. So much less stressful. And so much more honest, IMO. The waiters and waitresses are paid more to begin with, which is reflected in the price of the food. I wish the price of the servers were reflected in the price of restaurant food in the US, so that buying a meal at a restaurant would be no different than buying an item at a store.

[poppy]

I understand why it exists (and HATE it, which is one of the many reasons we don't go out to eat much at all.) But I don't think it's fair that a server who does the bare minimum and then sits and plays on the phone but happens to get the table where they order the most expensive thing on the menu plus alcohol to drink is going to get paid more than the server who does their very best, is genuinely nice to the customer and works very hard, but just so happens to get the table where the customer ordered a $6.50 burger and water to drink. I want the crappy server to still at least get min. wage, but the awesome server should get paid more because they are awesome.

 

Are you the poster who pays by 'how long did I sit here?' (On my phone can't check). It sounds like you spend more time monitoring work levels than enjoying your meal. Really it's easiest and kindest just to pay 15%.

[creekland]

 But I don't think it's fair that a server who does the bare minimum and then sits and plays on the phone but happens to get the table where they order the most expensive thing on the menu plus alcohol to drink is going to get paid more than the server who does their very best, is genuinely nice to the customer and works very hard, but just so happens to get the table where the customer ordered a $6.50 burger and water to drink. 

 

One can look hard and find (or mentally create) examples of all sorts of cheating the system no matter what that system is.  That's the way the Real World is.  It isn't fair.  There are plenty of opportunities for those who want to to figure out how to cheat.

 

In reality though, esp with servers in restaurants, most don't cheat.  Most work.  People get their food, drinks, etc.  The system tends to weed out cheaters when it can.  We vote with our dollars to a large extent and service is one component of that.  With tipping, one can choose to give less to someone not doing their job well and give more to someone doing a terrific job.  

 

If tipping weren't part of the system, both the hard worker and the slacker would make the same amount.  Can't say that's fair either TBH.

 

Personally, we know if we choose to eat out that tipping is part of our cost and plan accordingly.  If we can't afford it or don't want to spend the money, we either eat in or choose fast food options where tipping doesn't happen.

[Crimson Wife]

Why did it change, though? Does anybody know? Was it just a campaign by the food service industry to encourage people to pay more? I've often wondered about this. Since a tip is a percentage, the amount automatically increases with inflation.

 

I tip around 18%, which I still consider a good tip, and I usually tip on the total. I do tend to tip a bit more if I have a really small order, though.

 

Honestly, I think a lot of it is a decline in mental arithmetic ability among the "allowed to use calculators the whole time" generation. 20% is an easier mental calculation than 15%.

 

[jewellsmommy]

When receipts include amounts for you at the bottom of the receipt (calculated tips, 15%, 18%, 20%) , I wonder if they are on pre-tax or total.

 

pre-tax in the restaurants we have eaten at that include this.

 

 

Just a sort of FYI/PSA: Last week Dh and I went to Olive Garden for my birthday (someone had given us a gift card). When we used the table computer to see the bill and pay I already had a rough idea of the tip in my head. But I noticed the suggested tip amount and was shocked that it was so off my estimation. I kept calculating and re-calculating because it was such a mystery. It was off from my number by $10.  :confused1:  Then I figured it out!  The server had entered 2 very high cost entrees and then subtracted them (presumabely by accident she entered the wrong thing) so the bill was like this:

 

entree  $23

entree -$23

entree  $23

entree -$23

entree  $12

entree  $12

+ other stuff

 

So the computer saw this as we had 4 entree served us even though 2 of them were "free" and it calculated the tip based on the value of food served -not the actual bill. I am 100% sure because once I added 20% of the extra $46 in food then the numbers balanced. I tipped 20% on the food we actually ordered (of the total we were paying) because we didn't receive the free entrees or discounts of any kind. It makes sense that the tip would be calculated on value in case someone did have an meal comped or used a coupon and the waitress still served it etc. This just didn't apply here. If I had just let the computer do the tip for me it would have been a big boost in tip!  :lol:

[creekland]

Honestly, I think a lot of it is a decline in mental arithmetic ability among the "allowed to use calculators the whole time" generation. 20% is an easier mental calculation than 15%.

 

 

Among my circle, it's a realization at how little servers can make (unless at a pricey restaurant) and wanting to help them out.  Many have been servers in their past or know others who are and its an effort to give them a living wage or $$ toward whatever they are working for (as with kids in school).

 

Restaurant food costs have gone up some (inflation), but the cost of rent, college, and daily life has gone up a bit more I suspect.

 

The calculator generation needs those print outs at the bottom giving them an idea of how much they should be targeting.  Most (incorrectly) guess far less than it should be when they don't know how to figure it out.  (I see this at school with math problems a bit.   :cursing: )

[Sunshine State Sue]

Well, I thought about several polls but I had to get back to work. :closedeyes:  This topic would have been one of them.

 

I do however, tip what's customary. Currently that's 20%, though it used to be 15% 

 

Why did it change, though? Does anybody know? Was it just a campaign by the food service industry to encourage people to pay more? I've often wondered about this. Since a tip is a percentage, the amount automatically increases with inflation.

 

I do remember a time when customary tipping was 10-15% but it changed a while ago and now it seems to be 15-20% and growing.  I, too, wonder about it.
 

[Plateau Mama]

Or maybe they just never really thought about it. :confused1: I take the tax amount and double it for my base 16% tip, then add a little more to that which would mean I use the pre-tax amount. It's just how I've always done it and I've worked in a restaurant before.

This is what I do as well. Only our tax is 9.5% so that is 19% and I usually just round to nearest dollar.

[Lady Florida.]

Some places the food bill is low and the server does work really hard. For example the diner waitress who keeps the coffee filled. In places like that I might leave close to 100% for tip. To me me it's meaningless to leave a little change when the server was working harder than 20% seems to compensate.

 

I too leave a higher amount than just 20% when the bill is low.

 

"The internet" is not a good authority on anything, as you can find support for any viewpoint. 

 

 

 

I said in a previous post that I grew up with a parent in the business. She worked at high class country clubs, diners, and bars over the years. The only kind of restaurant she never worked were chain restaurants. What I didn't post is that I also spent some time during my school holidays (as a teacher not as a student) working as a server and occasionally as a bartender. When I quit teaching for a while I worked at a bar and eventually became the bar manager. I only provided a link to try and find something that backs up what I already knew from experience, not as an "authortiy". 

 

Why did it change, though? Does anybody know? Was it just a campaign by the food service industry to encourage people to pay more? I've often wondered about this. Since a tip is a percentage, the amount automatically increases with inflation.

 

 

 

I don't know why it changed, and I can no longer remember when it changed. It's been 20% for quite some time though.

Edited January 12, 2017 by Lady Florida.

[scbusf]

We tip on the pre-tax amount, but we usually tip at least 20%. Our tax on prepared food is fairly high, and, we almost always use a coupon, so we never see the original total including tax. We ALWAYS tip on the total before the coupon. Always.

[Lady Florida.]

We tip on the pre-tax amount, but we usually tip at least 20%. Our tax on prepared food is fairly high, and, we almost always use a coupon, so we never see the original total including tax. We ALWAYS tip on the total before the coupon. Always.

 

Yes, when we have a coupon we tip on what the total would have been without the discount.

[bettyandbob]

We tip on the pre-tax amount, but we usually tip at least 20%. Our tax on prepared food is fairly high, and, we almost always use a coupon, so we never see the original total including tax. We ALWAYS tip on the total before the coupon. Always.

Well I hope pre coupon total is obvious.

 

When we've been comped meals because of kitchen or management mistake not server mistake we leave a full tip because the server had no control and did his job.

[xixstar]

I have always done pre-tax amount. I get annoyed at places that auto calculate the tip on post tax amount. I am happy to tip and feel I do so appropriately and fsiy, it's more that I don't believe tipping on tax is the point. We also tip on prediscount amounts too.

 

My mother is anti-tipping and frequently won't or will leave a very minimal amount. If she goes out with me she will leave a little more but still not enough. It drives me crazy and we've discussed it sooooo many times but she is insistent. So the. I end up having to tip even more to make up the difference.

 

My new complaint is places with the table computers that calculate the tip - it's too easy to just click forward to accept the auto amount but it is often much lower than I would have paid. I think it hurts servers versus bringing up a screen to have someone enter my tip, I bet most people just go with what is easiest. But I only see these at places we end up at for happy hour type specials so then it's even more unfair because it always discounted food too.

[QueenCat]

I too leave a higher amount than just 20% when the bill is low.

 

 

I said in a previous post that I grew up with a parent in the business. She worked at high class country clubs, diners, and bars over the years. The only kind of restaurant she never worked were chain restaurants. What I didn't post is that I also spent some time during my school holidays (as a teacher not as a student) working as a server and occasionally as a bartender. When I quit teaching for a while I worked at a bar and eventually became the bar manager. I only provided a link to try and find something that backs up what I already knew from experience, not as an "authortiy". 

 

 

I don't know why it changed, and I can no longer remember when it changed. It's been 20% for quite some time though.

 

After the 80s............. but not sure when. I waitressed in the mid to late 1980s. 10% was a decent, average tip. 15% was a great tip, you had done really well.

[Excelsior! Academy]

Our tax rate for our city plus state is 8.375%.  I take the total bill, including taxes, then double the tax and add it back in after rounding up.  Simple in process, but tedious to try to explain apparently.  It makes our tip 17-20%  I've always thought myself a decent tipper, but after reading this thread that 20% is standard it makes me feel like I'm not.  

[CAMom]

I voted "other" because I live in a state with no sales tax. :) 

 

So, I do always tip on the total amount. When I am traveling outside of Oregon, I tip on the total including tax. When I am home, I tip on the total which does not include tax.

 

I usually tip about 22%.

[Alice]

I tip 20% on the total and then usually round up to the nearest dollar.

Dh tips 15% pre-tax. 

I also tip more if we share entrees or if they let us order off the smaller menu (kid's or lunch). I appreciate restaurants that will let us do that so I tip like we got two regular sized entrees. 

 

I hate it when the computer goes ahead and calculates a tip. I understand why they do it but it bugs me. I think because I'm sort of a control freak. Also, I like the idea of the tip being my choice and not just automatic. Otherwise, just make all the food cost more and pay the servers more and forget the whole tipping thing. Almost always the computer generated tips are less than I would tip on my own and I just leave it. 

[Annie G]

We tip on total - which isn't much different than the pretax amount because we don't spend a lot to eat out.    

 

I wish the tipping culture in this country would stop. Just pay people a fair wage and be done with it. That cashier at the grocery store works hard...my engineer husband works hard. Just pay everyone a fair wage based on what they are worth to the employer. Done.  

 

Dh and I drink water when we eat out and we don't eat a lot. We're not ordering appetizers, entree, dessert, drinks.  We also tend to order cheaper meals not because of price but because we aren't fancy diners.  So the whole tipping based on the bill seems off anyway. 

 

 

[Bootsie]

I like the European way, too. So much less stressful. And so much more honest, IMO. The waiters and waitresses are paid more to begin with, which is reflected in the price of the food. I wish the price of the servers were reflected in the price of restaurant food in the US, so that buying a meal at a restaurant would be no different than buying an item at a store.

I think this is so much more honest in many ways.  The menu cost would reflect the cost of the meal, being served, using the table, etc.  Some things happen that are not in the waitstaff's control (a bad cook, for example) that unfairly impacts the waitstaff's pay.  It also leads to game playing.  I have known of waiters who have intentionally left an item off of the bill or "accidentally" provided a bonus items in hopes for a big tip.  I also don't like the power play that tipping can bring about.  

 

I like the German system of little tipping, but I also like the German system of the waiter leaving me alone while I am eating.  I don't like a waiter who tries to be my new best friend,, who asks me if I am ready for dessert when I have taken two bites of my entree, etc.

[creekland]

You can believe I am being stingy by not just doing the same thing everyone else does if that's what you want to believe.   

 

I don't recall ever saying such a thing about your system - or even thinking it.  We each choose for ourselves what we want to do.  I have no plans to change our ways based upon a thread on a bulletin board.  We have solid reasons for why we do what we do (as do you).  I like my way and presume you like yours.

 

We eat out far more often though - at least once per week and usually more.  I'm not fond of cooking and cleaning so prefer to let others do those tasks for me.  We have a handful of local mom & pop places we like quite a bit - a couple of diners (typical American food), Chinese, Korean, Mexican, Italian, and pizza.  We need someone to open a nice Greek place... an Indian place would be welcome too.  For now we seek those out when we travel.

[Guest]

I've never heard of tipping on the pre-tax amount. Makes some sense. Unfortunately, I have a dd who used to be a server who depended on tips and I know how hard it was for her to make money. I always tip 20% and if the service is really good I tip more. I enjoy leaving big tips for people I think deserve it. I know it brings a smile to their faces.

Me too. :)

 

It actually would never occur to me to try to shave down the tip amount by looking at pre-tax. I will say though, I have a hard time being generous with my hairdresser because it's already so expensive.

[Seasider]

Never crossed my mind to tip on the pretax amount. We are generous tippers, remembering our own years in the service industry.

[Ellesmere]

I don't think it is always stingy to tip off the pre-tax amount. We don't, but I was taught it was proper (as in, customary, not as in moral or better) to tip on the pre-tax amount and then it was considered nice to continue rounding up. If it was amazing service, then round up even more. So if 20% of the pre-tax was $12.10, round up to $13 or $15 or $20, depending on the circumstances. Starting pre-tax had nothing to do with trying to shave money of the tip or being stingy. The place we almost always went to (not much choice where I grew up :lol: ) had the same staff for years and were always happy to see us so I assume my family's tipping was fine. Of course, I was taught that quite a long time ago, but around here, it doesn't make much difference for us.

When we go out now, I only use the amount as a guideline because we always tip a lot. We have dietary issues so we don't order nearly as much food as one would expect and rarely get alcohol in a restaurant. We don't do dessert often, either. So tipping on the dollar amount of the bill doesn't seem like enough and it is always above 20% of the total bill. And I actually do use the total amount as the guide just because it's what I tend to notice first. 

In our state and based on what our total bill usually comes to, tipping off the pre-tax or total doesn't make much difference and even if we stuck to the pre-tax and strictly tipped 20%, it wouldn't a stingy amount if everyone at the table ordered full meals and we weren't taking a lot of time. I've added more because of certain slowpokes at the table, so the dollar amount is just a base.

I never thought tipping on pre-tax was stingy or on total was generous but I've not lived anywhere or had restaurant bills high enough where that would make the difference.

[StaceyinLA]

I tip on the total, and I tip 20% unless the service is noticeably poor. I tip 25% (sometimes a little more) for really good service.

 

I feel like I have always been a good tipper (my dad always was and since we frequented nice restaurants when I was a teen, he was my example), but having kids who are servers really cemented my commitment to tip well. They really do NOT make any money unless they are tipped, and honestly, my daughter has always made more than my son (and he's a great waiter). I tend to tip guys slightly higher because I feel like most people tend to tip girls more.

 

Guess I didn't realize how much I had to say on the subject...

[Laurie4b]

I too leave a higher amount than just 20% when the bill is low.

 

 

I said in a previous post that I grew up with a parent in the business. She worked at high class country clubs, diners, and bars over the years. The only kind of restaurant she never worked were chain restaurants. What I didn't post is that I also spent some time during my school holidays (as a teacher not as a student) working as a server and occasionally as a bartender. When I quit teaching for a while I worked at a bar and eventually became the bar manager. I only provided a link to try and find something that backs up what I already knew from experience, not as an "authortiy". 

 

 

I don't know why it changed, and I can no longer remember when it changed. It's been 20% for quite some time though.

 

Your experience (that the expectation was that people would tip on the food/drink bill pretax) was mine as well in years as a waitress and bartender. I worked in two different regions of the country, both on the East Coast. It is also true that if you go to a place that charges a gratuity automatically, it is computer on pretax amounts. Perhaps there are regional variations.  We would figure in our heads what we were expecting in tip. We "figured" based on the pretax amount. However, in neither place was the tax amount all that high--well under 10% so when you get to 20% of 5% or something, it's really not that much of a difference for the average dinner (and I worked at higher end places.)  Most people round the number anyway--whether slightly up or down. 

 

I think thinking of  someone as stingy for tipping 20% of the pretax amount is really stretching things.

 

Stingy is 10% of either amount. Stingy is sitting at a table drinking coffee for 2 hours and leaving a 20% tip on the coffee when the server could have had another table eating a full meal and tipping on that. Those are the kinds of things that affect take-home pay a lot more than whether someone computes pretax or total. 

Edited January 13, 2017 by Laurie4b

[Seasider]

Stingy is sitting at a table drinking coffee for 2 hours and leaving a 20% tip on the coffee when the server could have had another table eating a full meal and tipping on that. Those are the kinds of things that affect take-home pay a lot more than whether someone computes pretax or total.

I am acutely aware of this as someone whose inlaws will sit and chat for a long time after the meal is ended. I will usually throw down another full tip if the server could have turned the table but didn't because we were hogging it. But most people who have not worked in the service industry don't think about this.

[heartlikealion]

Do folks realize there's not much of a difference in a pre/post tax tipping amount?

 

Say a bill is $100 pre tax.  20% of that is $20.

 

Add a 15% sales/restaurant tax and the bill is now $115.  20% of that is $23.

 

On a $100/$115 bill the difference is $3 - hardly something to seriously worry about for one who can afford that bill - a little extra pocket cash for the person working for _______ (a living, college expenses, to buy a car, whatever).

 

If we drop down to a $50 total, then we're at a difference of $1.50.

 

This ASSUMES a 15% restaurant tax too.  I'm honestly not sure any state or area gets that high.  A quick google search doesn't help much, but provides a list for major cities.  The highest come in at just under 11%, so lower those $3 and $1.50 amounts to $2.21 and $1.12 respectively - in the highest places listed.  

 

http://taxfoundation.org/article/meals-taxes-major-us-cities-0

 

I doubt it is significant, but in your example, I would be thinking "hmm $1.50 more per customer." Yep, that would definitely affect my night lol. Heck $1.50 more per HOUR would affect my income and we're talking more than one table. 

 

I have a friend that works at a restaurant. He's posted on FB before saying if you use a coupon at a restaurant please tip for the full price of the meal. I never gave it any thought. I am not sure how I feel about that.

[poppy]

I doubt it is significant, but in your example, I would be thinking "hmm $1.50 more per customer." Yep, that would definitely affect my night lol. Heck $1.50 more per HOUR would affect my income and we're talking more than one table.

 

I have a friend that works at a restaurant. He's posted on FB before saying if you use a coupon at a restaurant please tip for the full price of the meal. I never gave it any thought. I am not sure how I feel about that.

A coupon is a discount on food, not a discount on food AND service. I think it's appropriate to not 'double dip' in that way but instead tip based on pre coupon amount.

[creekland]

So, folks thinking server staff should be happy with $10/hour (with or without tips)... I'm wondering how it would match with the 20/20 Show thread...

 

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/634720-did-anyone-else-watch-2020-last-night/

 

I have no regrets for tipping decently.  I want folks to earn as much of a true living wage as they can.