What, to you, are racist actions?

[mykidsrmyjoy]

With all the talk here on the board about racism, may I respectfully, and with no intended sarcasm, ask what a racist action would be to you? I live in a smaller Southern town with a university that brings in students from around the world. This town also has a large amount of African-Americans. Quite possibly my head is in the sand and I am just unaware of racist actions that happen here, but to be honest it seems like people get along pretty well with one another. Would you all please give me examples of what you feel would be classified as a racist action? I think it would be interesting to get other people's perspectives on this, since I feel I am somewhat sheltered and haven't really seen these actions in person.

[mykidsrmyjoy]

I understand. I guess I'm not really looking for links, just examples that people have personally seen or experienced.

 

ETA: And not necessarily since the election.

Edited November 12, 2016 by mykidsrmyjoy

[regentrude]

I assume this question is meant seriously?

Just a few examples that happened to people in my circle of acquaintances (i.e. not from media reports) over the past few days:

Telling a person of color that they may not enter a college building because it is "for real Americans only" and she "should go back where she came from"

Calling an African American the n-word

Hanging a black doll from a noose

Painting a swastika in a place frequented by POC

 

do I need to list more examples?

 

ETA: A racist action is any action where a person is singled out based on his or her race.

There are plenty of other kinds of hate directed at certain groups.

 

Edited November 12, 2016 by regentrude

[mykidsrmyjoy]

I am asking in all seriousness. Thank you for your response.

[umsami]

There was a really good paper written in the late 80s by a woman (white) trying to understand white privilege. I think in today's climate, you also need to add in religion, and wonder if a visibly Muslim or Sikh family would feel the same.  http://nationalseedproject.org/white-privilege-unpacking-the-invisible-knapsack

 

But today, there was a woman at the University of Michigan who was confronted and told to either take off her hijab or she'd be burned.  She took it off.  That's obviously racist.

 

There were swastikas put in my friend's Middle school.  That is anti-Semitism, even if once the swastika did not hold that meaning.

 

We had signs put over drinking fountains similar to what existed in the 50s.  That's racism.

 

I think assuming somebody brown or non-white is an illegal immigrant is a form of racism.

 

Telling somebody to just speak English.

 

Kicking somebody off of a plane for doing algebra (assuming it's Arabic).

 

Kicking somebody off of a plane for wearing hijab or for speaking Arabic (and no other reason).

 

Telling somebody to go back to where they came.

 

Planning to create a database or special IDs for just people of one race or religion.

 

 

 

Edited November 12, 2016 by umsami

[regentrude]

But today, there was a woman at the University of Michigan who was confronted and told to either take off her hijab or she'd be burned.  She took it off.  That's obviously racist.

 

If we're including acts against women who are visibly Muslim (although I am not sure whether technically this is racist since they are singled out because of their religion, not their race): my Muslim friends in this town have plenty of stories. Like being called a terrorist while grocery shopping. Way before the election.

 

My first year after moving here, I had a conversation with  a person in the park while our kids played. He told me in all earnestness that the commandment Though shalt not kill does not apply to Muslims because they are the infidel and destroying our way of life. (He also was of the opinion that my husband has authority over my conscience)

That was the scariest encounter I personally had, because I have the privilege of being the "right" kind of immigrant, white, straight, and cis gendered.

Edited November 12, 2016 by regentrude

[Tanaqui]

I think you already know what major examples of racial bigotry are - using slurs, lynching, spraying grafitti, denying people jobs or rentals based on their race (this includes things like not giving callbacks to resumes with Hispanic names or not hiring people unless their hair has been chemically straightened, claiming that natural styles are "unprofessional"), making racist jokes, stating that PoC who have certain jobs must have gotten those jobs only because of affirmative action.

 

However, there are also microaggressions. Microaggressions are the sort of thing that pass because they're just not that obvious... but they're still harmful for the people who have to put up with them.

 

Examples include: Touching people without their permission - yes, textured hair feels different from straight hair, no that doesn't mean you have the right to just up and touch people. Just because somebody has an afro, that doesn't make them a troll doll.

 

Asking somebody where they're from and then arguing with them. "Where are you REALLY from?" The implication is that Asians or Hispanics or Blacks aren't REALLY Americans. (Related: Asking what it's like "in Asia" or "In Mexico" when you have no reason to believe this person came from that place.)

 

Claiming "I don't see your color, I just see you". That's right up there with "I don't see the fact that you're white, I just see you" or "I don't consider you a woman, I consider you a person". It's creepy and offensive.

 

Harassing people about their ethnic identity - either up and going "Well, what are you?" or, alternatively, "No, you're not X". Don't do this.

 

Saying that so-and-so "doesn't act $RACE" or "doesn't act like I thought" or "is the whitest $RACE person I know". You're putting stereotypes over reality.

 

Alternatively, using the one PoC you know as the answer to all your questions about their race/ethnicity. People vary.

 

Denying people's experiences. If somebody tells you that they get followed around in stores and they think it's because they're black, the correct answer is not "Well, that doesn't happen to me" unless you're agreeing that this only happens to PoC.

 

And the number one thing - if somebody tells you that what you said/did was offensive, the correct answer is not "Well, I didn't mean it that way, you're oversensitive". Instead, try "Sorry, I won't do that again" or "Sorry, I didn't realize". Later, after some research and thought, you might decide that so-and-so really WAS oversensitive... but seriously, don't say it to their face, in the moment. (And research means actual research. If the majority of people of that group agree with them, you need to take that seriously.)

[Free Indeed]

I live in rural Texas and with all the talk on racism lately I actually started paying more attention, "looking for it", and I can honestly say I have not seen even 1 example of racism. I'm sure it exists, but I haven't seen it.

[Guest]

Another thread that denies existence of marginalized 'whites'.

Edited November 13, 2016 by Heigh Ho

[umsami]

If we're including acts against women who are visibly Muslim (although I am not sure whether technically this is racist since they are singled out because of their religion, not their race): my Muslim friends in this town have plenty of stories. Like being called a terrorist while grocery shopping. Way before the election.

 

My first year after moving here, I had a conversation with  a person in the park while our kids played. He told me in all earnestness that the commandment Though shalt not kill does not apply to Muslims because they are the infidel and destroying our way of life. (He also was of the opinion that my husband has authority over my conscience)

That was the scariest encounter I personally had, because I have the privilege of being the "right" kind of immigrant, white, straight, and cis gendered.

 

Yes, but a lot of Americans assume all Muslims are Arab or Arab=Muslim, so....

 

Heck, there is a restaurant here from 40-50 years ago, that has a pita sandwich called a "camel rider."  Camel jockey is a derogatory term for an Arab person.

 

I've been told to go back to where I came from.  (As an FYI, I'm blonde haired and blue-eyed, but it didn't matter when I had hijab on.)

 

I've been complimented on my English, too, which I actually found hilarious because it was done by somebody with an obvious  accent.

 

I will say if anybody who is white would like to get a glimpse what it's like, put on a hijab.  You can buy a rectangular scarf at Walmart or Target for a few dollars.  How to wrap it videos abound on YouTube.  The good thing is, you can take it off.  Wear it to public places for a day or two, see what happens.  You might not have any bad incidents (hope you don't), but you will probably feel on display.  If it feels like everybody is watching you, you're right, they are.  That doesn't go away.  But don't worry, you can take it off if you want.  The biggest thrill to me was somebody actually smiling and talking to me about normal things, because it meant they saw me as normal.  While I didn't mind the questions about hijab or if I was hot or whatever, just the normal questions about the kids or if I knew if this product at the grocery store was good or whatever were golden, because I felt like a normal person.

[Tanaqui]

I live in rural Texas and with all the talk on racism lately I actually started paying more attention, "looking for it", and I can honestly say I have not seen even 1 example of racism. I'm sure it exists, but I haven't seen it.

 

There are a few possibilities here.

 

The first - and this is the one I certainly hope is the case! - is that you're genuinely living in an area where few people are racial bigots. That would be great!

 

The second, almost as good, is that you're living in an area where it is socially unacceptable to be openly bigoted, so the local bigots mostly keep their sentiments to themselves. Less good, but still.

 

The third is that your population is not terribly diverse, and so there are few chances for you to "catch" bigoted acts and words.

 

The fourth is that you're not recognizing racism when you see it. This is especially common when it comes to structural racism. For example, it is frequently the case that non-white drivers get stopped more often than white ones, even when we control for behavior. (That is, even if they're not acting suspicious or visibly breaking laws.) But this sort of thing is only obvious statistically - any one case could be a legitimate stop. Unless you're standing on the corner with a clipboard taking notes, how will you know if this is happening in your area or not?

 

This can happen with acts of racial bigotry as well. If some landlords in your area refuse to rent to blacks, you're not likely to know about it. If teachers call on white children more than black ones, how would you find out?

[regentrude]

The biggest thrill to me was somebody actually smiling and talking to me about normal things, because it meant they saw me as normal.  While I didn't mind the questions about hijab or if I was hot or whatever, just the normal questions about the kids or if I knew if this product at the grocery store was good or whatever were golden, because I felt like a normal person.

 

Can I piggyback a question here:

how does it feel to you if well meaning people approach you to express their support? The obviously single you out because of your hijab and treat you differently. I was wondering whether this is perceived uncomfortably as well. (And yes, I am aware that you are not the spokes person for all Muslim women....)

[Guest]

..

Edited November 13, 2016 by Heigh Ho

[Guest]

Yes, but a lot of Americans assume all Muslims are Arab or Arab=Muslim, so....

 

Heck, there is a restaurant here from 40-50 years ago, that has a pita sandwich called a "camel rider." Camel jockey is a derogatory term for an Arab person.

 

I've been told to go back to where I came from. (As an FYI, I'm blonde haired and blue-eyed, but it didn't matter when I had hijab on.)

 

I've been complimented on my English, too, which I actually found hilarious because it was done by somebody with an obvious accent.

 

I will say if anybody who is white would like to get a glimpse what it's like, put on a hijab. You can buy a rectangular scarf at Walmart or Target for a few dollars. How to wrap it videos abound on YouTube. The good thing is, you can take it off. Wear it to public places for a day or two, see what happens. You might not have any bad incidents (hope you don't), but you will probably feel on display. If it feels like everybody is watching you, you're right, they are. That doesn't go away. But don't worry, you can take it off if you want. The biggest thrill to me was somebody actually smiling and talking to me about normal things, because it meant they saw me as normal. While I didn't mind the questions about hijab or if I was hot or whatever, just the normal questions about the kids or if I knew if this product at the grocery store was good or whatever were golden, because I felt like a normal person.

I have thought bout doing this before, just as a sociology experiment. I have also considered posing as a man, or maybe I would possibly appear to be a transgender man. I thought it would be interesting to see what my interactions would be like if I appeared very differently.

[MercyA]

Overheard in my small, Midwestern town in the last few years; spoken by people I never would have guessed would say such things :( :

 

"Just like a [n word]", in reference to Obama taking a vacation (and therefore being "lazy").

 

"Those people only get off their butts to protest," in reference to people protesting police brutality.

 

Someone expressing that their lack of surprise that "those [black] people" would be involved in a crime. (Loved my mom's response. She said, "What, you mean Notre Dame football players?" and then proceeded to tell them that was a very racist thing to say.) 

 

Students suggesting that other students should pack their bags and get ready to be deported (at our local high school, this week).

 

A woman stating her opposition to a light-skinned woman dating a dark-skinned man.

 

Someone stating that a (presumed black) recipient would enjoying feeling "fancy" in a coat donated to a local homeless shelter. 

 

We have a long way to go.

Edited November 13, 2016 by MercyA

[regentrude]

I have thought bout doing this before, just as a sociology experiment. I have also considered posing as a man, or maybe I would possibly appear to be a transgender man. I thought it would be interesting to see what my interactions would be like if I appeared very differently.

 

or you might appear a transgendered woman. Which might be quite dangerous.

[Guest]

With all the talk here on the board about racism, may I respectfully, and with no intended sarcasm, ask what a racist action would be to you? I live in a smaller Southern town with a university that brings in students from around the world. This town also has a large amount of African-Americans. Quite possibly my head is in the sand and I am just unaware of racist actions that happen here, but to be honest it seems like people get along pretty well with one another. Would you all please give me examples of what you feel would be classified as a racist action? I think it would be interesting to get other people's perspectives on this, since I feel I am somewhat sheltered and haven't really seen these actions in person.

Most of what I have personally witnessed (I am white) has been "casual racism." I heard a real estate agent saying he wouldn't mind buying some property in XYZ town because, among other positive attributes, "there aren't many black people there." I have heard a woman saying she wouldn't send her daughter to a certain private school because there are "too many blacks and asians" there and she feared her daughter might "come home with Tyrone." I have heard this said about a college as well, as a negative feature of a particular college.

 

More obvious and serious racism - hanging a black doll from a noose, painting swastikas, calling out bad names, etc., I have rarely encountered stuff this obvious.

[Guest]

or you might appear a transgendered woman. Which might be quite dangerous.

True.

[kiana]

I have thought bout doing this before, just as a sociology experiment. I have also considered posing as a man, or maybe I would possibly appear to be a transgender man. I thought it would be interesting to see what my interactions would be like if I appeared very differently.

 

It is interesting. As of right now I appear rather mannish if I am not wearing a skirt (I don't have much bust anymore, I'm rather muscular, and I tend to stride), and the different ways that people treat me in different clothes are rather fascinating. 

 

It's caused issues with people calling security on me in toilets though, especially at the height of the transgender bathroom hysteria. 

[umsami]

Can I piggyback a question here:

how does it feel to you if well meaning people approach you to express their support? The obviously single you out because of your hijab and treat you differently. I was wondering whether this is perceived uncomfortably as well. (And yes, I am aware that you are not the spokes person for all Muslim women....)

 

For me, it's fine. I didn't mind.  Heck, a smile is/was ginormous.  But I'll be honest and say I took off my hijab two years ago when the FBI came to many mosques in Florida and basically told them about hate groups in the state planning attacks on visibly Muslim women.  The Imams (pastors) then passed that on to us, and I made the decision to remove it.  It wasn't worth the risk of leaving my babies without a Mom or having them witness an attack on me.  Verbal attacks and such had occurred when they were younger, but I don't think they remember thankfully. 

Edited November 13, 2016 by umsami

[Um_2_4]

Can I piggyback a question here:

how does it feel to you if well meaning people approach you to express their support? The obviously single you out because of your hijab and treat you differently. I was wondering whether this is perceived uncomfortably as well. (And yes, I am aware that you are not the spokes person for all Muslim women....)

 

I'm not OP, but I'll give you one answer. I appreciate those who approach to offer support. We don't bite I promise.  All you have to do is just be yourself, how else would you approach a mom with kids in tow you met at the library/store/park. We have the same kid issues, same housekeeping/ scheduling/life issues as others. Like UmSami said, " biggest thrill to me was somebody actually smiling and talking to me about normal things, because it meant they saw me as normal." <<1000x this. 

 

The other day a lady stuck up a conversation with me at the grocery store. Cereal was on very big sale, so I stocked up. She saw all the boxes and  just talked to me about how many kids, ages, etc.... totally normal. We joked about this being my "quiet time" grocery shopping and she reminisced about when her kids were little. We said good morning and parted ways. Those encounters make be believe there are some Americans who can look and see people, not groups.

 

I have on 1 or 2 occasions, felt "singled" out. Those were weird encounters where while the words sounded positive, they felt fake, you could tell with body language/facial expressions.  And both cases the language was rather belittling under the surface. Like they were trying to show their friends who were sitting at the table "look how nice I am speaking to the poor oppressed foreign woman".  :lol: Oh, she doesn't know me at all. Both times they were shocked when I opened my mouth and spoke perfect English.

 

I have had all those UmSami mentioned (go home, lose the hijab, speak american) and the stares and finger pointing and the rolled eyes because I have 4 kids. 

I am also fair, green eyed and blond, typically wear pants/long tunics/shirts but most can't see past the hijab.

[hornblower]

I have thought bout doing this before, just as a sociology experiment. I have also considered posing as a man, or maybe I would possibly appear to be a transgender man. I thought it would be interesting to see what my interactions would be like if I appeared very differently.

 

It's Black Like Me all over again..... 

[Janeway]

Anything against or for anyone based on race. Best measure is to swap the race being referenced to see if it's ok. It's not ok to say all white people are racists if it's not ok to say all black people are racists.

 

Racism does not refer to other bigoted remarks. All Christians are child beaters. All atheists are child beaters, all Muslims are child beaters, all ....see? Not ok, definitely bigoted, but does not reference a race so not racism.

[Farrar]

Obviously some racist actions are overt and intentional, like some of the things we've been seeing in the last week.

 

But I think most racist actions now are done without an intention to be racist. And I think most of them are invisible to white people - and sometimes to everyone without introducing research studies into the mix. If you're treated better at a store, you have no way to compare most of the time. Same thing with hiring practices. We know that having a black sounding name makes you less likely to get a call back for a resume of equal experience as a white name, for example. But it's hard to see that. You have to read and trust the research and believe it's happening.

 

I think Tanaqui's list above of microaggressions is a good one. Most of those aren't intentionally racist at all. But until we start recognizing them, recognizing how they hurt (and not just emotionally, but perpetuate stereotypes and lead to real lost economic, education, etc. opportunities - then it can't change.

[Free Indeed]

I am also fair, green eyed and blond, typically wear pants/long tunics/shirts but most can't see past the hijab.

So here may be my racist question of the day... Did you "convert" to Islam as an adult? Marry an Islamic man? I know that could sound ignorant-I admit while we have various shades of people here, only when I go to a major city have I ever seen anyone in a hijab- and they have all had darker skin and hair, i.e. Middle eastern descent.

[hornblower]

OP, it can be so many things. From calling people racial epithets,  to telling them to 'go home', to burning crosses on their lawn, to beatings and lynchings. 

It can be not picking certain people to call for interview because you read their name & it doesn't sound 'right' to you, or you know 'those people' are lazy or illegal or.... 

It can excluding people from your social circle, or discouraging adult children from dating people from other social/ethnic/race groups. 

it can be people being abrupt & impatient with others who have an accent and insisting "I don't understand you! Get me someone who speaks English!" 

It can be medical staff assuming a person must be on drugs or drunk because of their appearance/skin color and not treating their diabetic shock. 




If I can ask you a question back:  do you identify as a member of the majority / power race or ethnic origin in your area?  

[theelfqueen]

A moment of levity in a serious thread --

 

Can I just admit that as a big giant Disney dork... I saw PoC and thought PotC (Pirates of the Caribbean) even though I was reading in a thread where clearly it meant Person/People of Color?

Specifically with reference to"Alternatively, using the one PoC you know as the answer to all your questions about their race/ethnicity. People vary."

For one brief moment I was very confused. Please do not take your racial cues from Pirates of the Caribbean.

 

[Guest]

For me, it's fine. I didn't mind. Heck, a smile is/was ginormous. But I'll be honest and say I took off my hijab two years ago when the FBI came to many mosques in Florida and basically told them about hate groups in the state planning attacks on visibly Muslim women. The Imams (pastors) then passed that on to us, and I made the decision to remove it. It wasn't worth the risk of leaving my babies without a Mom or having them witness an attack on me. Verbal attacks and such had occurred when they were younger, but I don't think they remember thankfully.

This is so horrifying to me. I am so sorry you had to choose between safety and a religious symbol.

[Guest]

 

It's Black Like Me all over again.....

I vaguely remember that...

[umsami]

So here may be my racist question of the day... Did you "convert" to Islam as an adult? Marry an Islamic man? I know that could sound ignorant-I admit while we have various shades of people here, only when I go to a major city have I ever seen anyone in a hijab- and they have all had darker skin and hair, i.e. Middle eastern descent.

 

Not asked of me, but as fair, blonde haired, blue eyed.... I converted to Islam as an adult in my 20s.  I met my husband (Egyptian) a few years later.

 

But there are blue eyed and green eyed Muslims.  There are fair Muslims.  The term Caucasian is used for a white person. It comes from the Caucasus region, where there are many Muslims (Georgia, Azerbijan, Armenia, Chechnya, and Russia are all considered part of that region, but there are more.).  Used to be part of the Persian empire.  People from Turkey are often quite fair.  Two of my kids have blue eyes because my Egyptian husband's father had blue eyes (as do I).

[Tanaqui]

Oh, just two more things. First, my list of "overt" racial bigotry and my further list of "microaggressions" is not intended to be comprehensive. It's supposed to give you an idea of what you're looking for. I shouldn't have to say this, but just in case, something can be discriminatory even if it's not on anybody's list. (There are, of course, a great many lists online of microaggressions and related subjects.)

 

Secondly, to be clear, the term "racism" does have two definitions. I try to avoid it altogether! I know you're asking about racial bigotry, and that's fine... but frequently, when we use the term, we mean structural racism. Structural racism can happen without anybody actually being a bigot or wanting to hurt blacks or whoever. It's a complicated issue I'm not going to get into now, but I'm pretty sure it'll come up if this thread goes on long enough, so I wanted to get that out there.

 

And of course, you can do discriminatory things by accident, and they're still wrong. We're all learning, every day. The important thing is to learn and get better. If today you suddenly realize that saying "jew him down" is using a slur - okay, well, don't ever say it again. If tomorrow you find out that you've been crossing the street every time you see a black guy - okay, well, try to stop doing that. Don't get defensive, just get better.

[heartlikealion]

This may be a gray area as it depends on the intent of the person asking but sometimes, "where are you from? No, where you are really from?" can be a form of sizing someone up and forming a prejudice opinion.

 

Honestly, you may not see it in a blatant way in your average day to day interactions vs. in subtle ways. Like, once I went to a church prayer group and one of the hosts told a story of when she was younger what they would call people of a certain race. Her husband looked really embarrassed and metaphorically my jaw dropped if not literally. Because I am part Mexican, but also part white, many people assume I am not a minority (I can pass for just white) and feel more free to express certain opinions in front of me. Whether or not I'm a minority is really irrelevant, but you know that's how a lot of people are. You really see people's true colors more in private.

 

One of my first exposures to this was when I was around some girls that took the word "rebel" to have a racial context and asked who else was a rebel by a show of hands. I watched these girls raise hands around me in disbelief. I just sat there. This was in jr. high. The rebel was a university mascot in our state and it really made me wonder the connection or if these girls just invented their own term/definition. Since then the mascot has been replaced. As an adult I was actually taken aside by a white male coworker to tell me some of the history of the rebel mascot and how it might have been based on a particular blind black gentleman (perhaps why the Rebel had a cane). He showed me in a book. I didn't know if this was supposed to be a good or bad thing and he didn't pull my black co-worker aside to tell her, but I wasn't sure if that was because he was afraid he would offend her or because I just interacted with him more at work than her.

 

I've also seen it expressed in other ways like... someone acts fine with different races until the topic of marriage or dating comes up. Then all of a sudden it's, "I don't believe in mixed marriages." I heard white people and one black coworker agree to this as they expressed their disapproval of a black husband/Asian wife couple. Another black co-worker and I shared our disappointment/offense in their outlook.

Edited November 13, 2016 by heartlikealion

[Tanaqui]

Oh, and one more more thing: Although most Arabs are Muslim, most Muslims are not Arabs. I'm sure demographics vary wildly throughout the country. Here in NYC, where perhaps 2 - 4% of the population is Muslim and we have a lot of immigration from all over the country and the world, we have a mix of Asian Muslims, African Muslims, African-American Muslims, Arab Muslims, Iranian or Turkish Muslims (broadly the middle east, but not Arab), Indian Muslims, and white Muslims of various ethnicities and backgrounds. (I think we even have some Hispanic Muslims that are converts or who believe their ancestors were Muslim and forced to convert, but I don't think I've ever met any myself.) Which has one enormous advantage - it makes it very easy to see past the lie that "all" Muslims are this or that. For heaven's sake, they don't even all have the same ideas about how to dress! They certainly don't all hold the same views on big issues like feminism or gays or whatever - and I won't get into the uglier things people try to say apply to all Muslims.

 

So you should definitely not assume any random Muslim you haven't met personally is from some particular ethnic group or has certain customs or speaks  certain language. They vary as widely as anybody else.

[LucyStoner]

I simply can not write out all of the examples of racism I have observed up close. I have a black brother and take care of my black niece and nephew a lot. Here would be a sampling of things that are less explicit than the time skinheads harassed us (fake firebombs, graffiti on the house, stealing my brother's dog and beating her nearly to death before returning her and we had to put her to sleep...etc)

 

*I ask at a place with no public restrooms if my sons can use the employee restroom. Permission is granted. My SIL asks for her kids and permission was not granted.

 

*people at church or in a neighborhood who are nice and kind and want to make friends/invite the family over for dinner. Then suddenly it all cooled when my brother was seen.

 

*person demanding to know how it is even possible that my son and my niece are related. Like how does that even happen. (?!)

 

*People being very curious about the parentage of the kids they assume are mine because I am often seen with, in age order, black girl, white boy, black boy, white boy. Realizing they treat me better when they realize my sons have the same dad and I don't have black children.

 

*Police officer about to go off on my brother but suddenly it's all good because he's with me.

 

*seeing school officials talk to my SIL in ways they would not speak to me, my niece's situation only resolved after I got involved.

 

*certain lewd things white men have said about my 14 niece (sexualizing her race and age) which I will not repeat here as to avoid vomiting on my new phone!

 

I could go on forever. And that's just my family. I could also go on at length about my friends.

Edited November 13, 2016 by LucyStoner

[marbel]

Never mind.

 

 

Edited November 13, 2016 by marbel

[hornblower]

oh, and a simple one: swastikas are racist. 

& yeah, that other flag of yours is too imo.  I think we had a big long debate about this here a while back with some arguments about culture and history but I remain unconvinced.  


People have been reporting many many sightings of both the last few days. Laura Drryfuss from Glee reports she saw swastikas on the way home in New York City.  It's absolutely mindboggling. 

[Miss Peregrine]

Didn't read the responses yet but two things I have seen personally: wiping your hand on your pants after shaking the hand of a black person and readjusting your purse straps when a black person walks by. 

[marbel]

Didn't read the responses yet but two things I have seen personally: wiping your hand on your pants after shaking the hand of a black person and readjusting your purse straps when a black person walks by. 

 

This blows my mind.   You've really seen that?    I don't mean that in a "you're making this up" sort of way, but in a "this blows my mind" sort of way. 

[heartlikealion]

Since Lucy Stoner brought up skinheads, I couldn't help myself for saying this. I used to hang out with self-proclaimed skinheads, but they weren't the neo-nazi kind. There are a few types of skinheads. One of my friends identified as a SHARP (Skinheads Against Racial Prejudice). Others I knew identified as Trads (Traditional, also not racist). My avatar and signature actually reflect some of the music culture (boots and oi music). But it's in no way meant to reflect a racist image. Many skinheads are very misunderstood. Some people read into the color of shoelaces to identify racist skins (white laces = white power, etc.). Those are not always accurate, but just something some people think about. I was heavy into the punk and goth scenes and I did worry sometimes people would misunderstand my attire, etc.

[Janeway]

Claiming non white people cant be racist or all white people are racist or that white people act racist but can't see it.

 

This discussion has already taken a racist direction and it is racist to not see it.

[Tanaqui]

This blows my mind.   You've really seen that?    I don't mean that in a "you're making this up" sort of way, but in a "this blows my mind" sort of way. 

 

I've certainly heard others complaining about it happening, so it has to happen.

 

And it's one of those insidiously gaslighty ones like traffic stops. Once or twice might mean that your hands were really sweaty, or that that person just hates touching other people*, but when it happens again and again - especially if you don't see it happening when whites shake hands with whites - it's going to start to answer itself.

 

* Full confession, I hate touching other people and have to restrain myself from wiping my hands afterwards. Sometimes I fail or forget to restrain myself, but I do try because I know how easily that can be misunderstood.

Edited November 13, 2016 by Tanaqui

[Miss Peregrine]

This blows my mind.   You've really seen that?    I don't mean that in a "you're making this up" sort of way, but in a "this blows my mind" sort of way. 

Yes.  The shaking hands thing, more than once. The purse straps, also many times. One was recently when I was walking with an acquaintance down a parade route. I felt angered on his behalf.

 

Black men notice it, too. 

 

http://www.chicagoreader.com/chicago/the-clutch-of-fear/Content?oid=903053

[Janeway]

I understand. I guess I'm not really looking for links, just examples that people have personally seen or experienced.

 

ETA: And not necessarily since the election.

 I appear white. Living in an apartment, some black women living behind us told my children to get off the playground because white kids weren't welcome. My own cousin told me he dislikes all white people because they are all racist. I reminded him he is part white too and he told me he hated that part of himself. Another time, years ago, at a family members house, some of the kids ganged up on other kids, these kids are all cousins of each other, and kicked any child out of the playroom who looked "too white."  

[Janeway]

And since I am someone who does not keep friends who are racist, I would rarely see racist acts against others, but have experienced it against myself or my children.

 

I do not think this counts as racism..but I had an Irish grandparent who really disliked Catholics and Irish people, and I had another grandparent who grew up in a reservation who really disliked American Indians. My then boyfriend who is biracial came back to his dorm room to find some nasty people wrote "oreo" on his door. That was racist. And one time, when I had to report a crime to a police officer, right after moving to the south (but it was not here where I currently live) the officer made a comment about the fact that the person committing the crime was a black person, and his remark was racist. I do not recall his exact words, but I was shocked and wanted to correct him, but did not know what to do. 

 

To say one race as a whole cannot see racism is racist. To say racism only happens to one race is racist. Racism is bad and wrong and is not ok, not matter who is targets or benefits. Really, it never benefits anyone in the end.

[heartlikealion]

Claiming non white people cant be racist or all white people are racist or that white people act racist but can't see it.

 

This discussion has already taken a racist direction and it is racist to not see it.

 

I haven't read every post. I didn't mean to insinuate that if I did.

 

Some other thoughts. I get upset when relatives deliberately pronounce "fried rice" incorrectly. Shut up, that's rude.

 

I don't know if I should feel guilty or not when I laugh watching shows where they deliberately poke fun/point out stereotypes (Fresh off the Boat, Black-ish).

[Tanaqui]

*certain lewd things white men have said about my 14 niece (sexualizing her race and age) which I will not repeat here as to avoid vomiting on my new phone!

 

I know you know this, but for everybody else's benefit that's one of the ways that structural racism and racial bigotry are so noxious - they intersect in very ugly ways with sex, with class, with disability.... It's a web of oppression, and we're the flies.

 

Edited November 13, 2016 by Tanaqui

[Um_2_4]

So here may be my racist question of the day... Did you "convert" to Islam as an adult? Marry an Islamic man? I know that could sound ignorant-I admit while we have various shades of people here, only when I go to a major city have I ever seen anyone in a hijab- and they have all had darker skin and hair, i.e. Middle eastern descent.

 

I am from a large city in the Midwest. My story is I studied world religions, a lot, like for all of my high school years, and into college. Attended lectures, traveled the world (all of Europe, part of Africa) in the summers/breaks. I converted when I was 20 (now y'all know how old I am LOL). Then after a year I accepted my DH's proposal (his was one of about 15 LOL). I continued to study in many countries and was blessed to study under some very good sheikhs who teach moderation and maintain the "old" knowledge without these modern deviations (wahhabism, etc.).

 

There are many more Americans like me who converted then married. When I converted at the time, most converts had married a Muslim man then converted. Now a days it is usually the opposite. 

 

At the masjid I go to there is a large mix of Arab, Caucasian, African-American, Pakistani, Afghani, Hispanic, Indonesian, Malaysian. Most all lessons are offered in 3 languages: Arabic, English and Spanish and many are also offered in Urdu and Malay. Our largest growing population is Hispanic and men are converting just as fast or faster than women.

[LucyStoner]

Claiming non white people cant be racist or all white people are racist or that white people act racist but can't see it.

 

This discussion has already taken a racist direction and it is racist to not see it.

Racism and bigotry/bias are not synonyms.

[debinindy]

Thank you all for sharing your experiences.  Gosh, I am so sorry these horrible things have been said/done to you.  Abhorrent, unacceptable.  I am so sorry.

[LucyStoner]

I know you know this, but for everybody else's benefit that's one of the ways that structural racism and racial bigotry are so noxious - they intersect in very ugly ways with sex, with class, with disability.... It's a web of oppression, and we're the flies.

Yup. If looks could kill these dudes would be dead. Though I did scare the shit out of one of them and no, I am not sorry.