Jump to content

Menu

Insert screaming and flailing arms here (more economic downturn talk)


Recommended Posts

I just read a fluff piece on my Yahoo homepage about Wall St meets Main St. because it is about the town my brother lives in that has a quaint shopping area at the intersection of Wall and Main.

 

It's an affluent town, but it blew me away. One of the shops was doing fine because their $13 bookmarks were a low pricepoint and people could still afford that. Same with the gourmet bread and soup mix guy.

 

Who buys a $13 bookmark? Even in the best economy? I'll be honest, we do just fine financially, and we have money saved for the upcoming downturn. But we don't buy $13 bookmarks! Ever! If that's the mentality of this country, then all I can say is no wonder.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Who buys a $13 bookmark? Even in the best economy? I'll be honest, we do just fine financially, and we have money saved for the upcoming downturn. But we don't buy $13 bookmarks! Ever! If that's the mentality of this country, then all I can say is no wonder.

 

I'm totally tracking your vibe here...

 

I would have to be pretty wealthy, and have a very high income, before either of those shops saw regular business from me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

:lol: Amy, I think that probably most of us on this board wouldn't spring for the luxury bookmark--but then, we're homeschoolers. We're not going to be a good representative sample of middle America. ;)

 

But I deeply believe that you've hit on something crucial. I remember many moons ago when the luxurious Tysons Galleria opened here and my little sister and I walked through it for the first time ogling the window displays. Finally she turned to me and said, "Leila, there's nothing--NOTHING--in this mall that any person NEEDS." And I looked at her and said, "I was thinking the same thing! I was thinking, 'conspicuous consumption.' "

 

I'm telling you the God's honest truth: That is EXACTLY the dialogue that we had: The mall is a temple to the god of consumption. I'm as much a capitalist as the next gal (and more of one than many), but honestly, our hyper-consumerist, instant gratification lifestyle--fueled by easy credit--is a big part of what got us into this mess.

 

So that's my long answer to your post. Now we know why I'm a thread killer! I probably should've just said :iagree: with you completely. :001_smile:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If it was a handmade bookmark, a work of art, created by a local artist who also happened to be my best friend, then I would consider it, to be honest. I think there are very specific circumstances where splurging is appropriate and if I think really, really hard, I can imagine one where I would make that purchase.

 

Not that I don't see where you're going with this. I probably wouldn't be able to tolerate more than ten minutes in one of those stores. Unless I was doing research about all the stuff I could make for a fraction of the price, to give as gifts. Do you think they'd allow cameras in that store? :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hmmmm, I live in an affluent suburb of NYC, probably similar to your brother's town. I'll I can say is the $13 book mark is the tip of an iceberg.

 

Allen Greenspan once descibed the tech bubble as "irrational excuberance". He wasn't kidding. We've careened from one bubble to the next (tech to real estate). Now all the bubbles have popped. Just as the past 10 years or so have been irrational excurberance, we're now in an irrational panic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It says they're elastic bookmarks--maybe they're pretty and people buy them as gifts? :confused:

 

I get what you're saying though--it's a little surreal to me when people are talking about how stressed they are about the economy as they line up at Starbucks. We had dinner last night at Red Robin, it wasn't packed but it wasn't completely dead either.

 

I'm not saying we don't have a real problem, but I think we've gotten to the point where we don't know what is true and what is the result of fear and panic anymore.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hmmmm, I live in an affluent suburb of NYC, probably similar to your brother's town. I'll I can say is the $13 book mark is the tip of an iceberg.

 

Allen Greenspan once descibed the tech bubble as "irrational excuberance". He wasn't kidding. We've careened from one bubble to the next (tech to real estate). Now all the bubbles have popped. Just as the past 10 years or so have been irrational excurberance, we're now in an irrational panic.

 

Oh, I dunno--the panic seems fairly rational to me. :001_huh:

 

Kidding! Have to laugh to keep from crying. :001_smile:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh, I dunno--the panic seems fairly rational to me. :001_huh:

 

Kidding! Have to laugh to keep from crying. :001_smile:

 

Seems rational to me as I sit here in the silence waiting for the phone to ring (when this time last year we always had all 3 lines full - we could have used 2 or 3 more lines!)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think a $13 bookmark might be a nice gift for someone who loves to read but "has everything". This bookstore is surely selling them as gifts. Check this out:

http://www.amazon.com/Italian-Leather-Bookmarks-Burgundy-Boxed/dp/B000RTCRAU/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=office-products&qid=1223651709&sr=8-2

 

 

 

But... having said that, I must say no one needs a $13 bookmark and the whole problem is that more and more people today do have "everything". It's totally gross. In fact, we have trouble birthday party shopping because even kids today "have everything".

 

Margaret

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think a $13 bookmark might be a nice gift for someone who loves to read but "has everything". This bookstore is surely selling them as gifts. Check this out:

http://www.amazon.com/Italian-Leather-Bookmarks-Burgundy-Boxed/dp/B000RTCRAU/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=office-products&qid=1223651709&sr=8-2

 

 

 

But... having said that, I must say no one needs a $13 bookmark and the whole problem is that more and more people today do have "everything". It's totally gross. In fact, we have trouble birthday party shopping because even kids today "have everything".

 

Margaret

 

Margaret, you took the words out of my mouth. What's wrong with our culture that there's a whole genre of gifts geared toward "the person who has everything"? :001_huh:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just read a fluff piece on my Yahoo homepage about Wall St meets Main St. because it is about the town my brother lives in that has a quaint shopping area at the intersection of Wall and Main.

 

It's an affluent town, but it blew me away. One of the shops was doing fine because their $13 bookmarks were a low pricepoint and people could still afford that. Same with the gourmet bread and soup mix guy.

 

Who buys a $13 bookmark? Even in the best economy? I'll be honest, we do just fine financially, and we have money saved for the upcoming downturn. But we don't buy $13 bookmarks! Ever! If that's the mentality of this country, then all I can say is no wonder.

 

Absolutely, every word you said.

 

I could see maybe buying that bookmark as a gift for a friend - a special memento that she could keep. I would never, ever buy it for myself. I'd take the $13. and buy a book and use a scrap of paper to mark it. :D I see so much of this around me, and the problem with that is I don't live in a particularly affluent area. But I see friends, family spending as though they are affluent. America has been consumed by consumerism.

 

Janet

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK, I'm a book junky and would pay $13 for a very nice bookmark. But I have bookmarks from my "collection" back from my high school days. Call me weird but certain bookmarks actually remind me of the books that I marked with them.

 

Here's an example of some pricey elastic bookmarks. Don't think I'll be ordering any of them anytime soon.

https://www.sidrichardsonmuseum.org/NUstore/catalog/product_info.php?language=en&currency=USD&products_id=489

 

 

All of that being said, I am really worried about the economy and how things are going.

 

Kelly

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not Grapevine, but dh works in neighboring Southlake. He thinks it's been amusing to watch the number of Hummers parked around the townsquare decrease a bit as gas prices have gone up over the past year. Of course, the shops still seem plenty busy around there when I'm in that area.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually, I believe it said that he sells elastic book marks for *no more* than $13... which means that's the most they are. Those bungee book marks are about $6 around here... and yes, they can go up over ten dollars and even more if they are decorative or have pockets for pens, etc.

 

I feel the same way though, when I see handbags that are over $100 and clothing more than that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually, I believe it said that he sells elastic book marks for *no more* than $13... which means that's the most they are. Those bungee book marks are about $6 around here... and yes, they can go up over ten dollars and even more if they are decorative or have pockets for pens, etc.

 

I feel the same way though, when I see handbags that are over $100 and clothing more than that.

 

 

OK, Robin. I see you and I are practically neighbors. Where did you see those cute bookmarks for $6? :D

 

Kelly

 

PS I will not and can not spend a lot of money on shoes or handbags. It seems like such a waste. But books......don't get me started. haha Unfortunately, I don't have the money to go on book shopping sprees. The money tree in the back yard died.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK, Robin. I see you and I are practically neighbors. Where did you see those cute bookmarks for $6? :D

 

 

 

Maybe Barnes and Noble? Someplace like that... can't remember... But I also saw them online once for a little more than that...

 

Hey, if you find another one of those trees, can I get a graft of it? :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe Barnes and Noble? Someplace like that... can't remember... But I also saw them online once for a little more than that...

 

Hey, if you find another one of those trees, can I get a graft of it? :)

 

Thanks. I

ll go take a look when I have some ME money to spend.

I'll let you know as soon as I find a money tree. But I wouldn't be waiting if I were you. LOL

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For me the $13. bookmark is just a symbol. It could be the $100. purse, $150. jeans, on and on. There are certain items that are very important to the individual person, and that person would willing spend more on that item than I would. And, of course, there people who can easily afford these items without putting themselves into debt.

 

I'll keep this personal and limit it to family and friends that I know well. Many of them have been swept up in the consumerism cyclone, and they still haven't come down. They spend, spend, spend, much of it on non-essential items. They spend more than they should; as long as they can meet that monthly credit card payment, it's all good. One thing my dh taught me early on was to never just look at the monthly payment but to look at the entire cost - the original cost plus interest. While $40. a month might not seem like much, when you add it up over time plus interest, it can get huge.

 

My sister got caught up in that lifestyle. While her dh made fairly good money, they weren't wealthy. But they wanted what they wanted and what they saw other people getting. The big house, the SUV, the furniture, technical gadgets, clothes, every class under the sun for their kids, etc. Their friends from work had it, why shouldn't they. I know where my bil worked and what he did (my dh worked there also), so I have a very good idea what their income was. Their income did not equal their living style. Well, their bubble burst a couple years ago when they filed bankruptcy. What a mess. It seems to be a condition among quite a few of her friends - bankruptcy. There were no huge medical expenses, failed businesses or anything like that; just overspending.

 

I think there are a lot of people like that; I'm basing that on family and friends that have lived that way. And it's hard to change those habits, and I think it's going to get much harder for them.

 

Janet

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Margaret, you took the words out of my mouth. What's wrong with our culture that there's a whole genre of gifts geared toward "the person who has everything"? :001_huh:

 

Which is why I've stopped buying things for people who have everything already :tongue_smilie:. Saves me a buck, and them some clutter.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just read a fluff piece on my Yahoo homepage about Wall St meets Main St. because it is about the town my brother lives in that has a quaint shopping area at the intersection of Wall and Main.

 

It's an affluent town, but it blew me away. One of the shops was doing fine because their $13 bookmarks were a low pricepoint and people could still afford that. Same with the gourmet bread and soup mix guy.

 

Who buys a $13 bookmark? Even in the best economy? I'll be honest, we do just fine financially, and we have money saved for the upcoming downturn. But we don't buy $13 bookmarks! Ever! If that's the mentality of this country, then all I can say is no wonder.

 

Exactly! There was a story on the local news about "Woe is me, this economy s*cks!" The very next story was about a multi-million dollar shopping center that is going ahead as planned. Because you know, Dallas *needs* another shopping center with all the upscale shops. Gag me!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't use bookmarks, but if I did, I sure wouldn't pay $13 for one, no matter what.

 

I turn down the corners on the pages instead -- major crime, I know. :D DH hates it when anyone does something to a book such that it no longer looks unread.

Edited by RoughCollie
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh, I don't know. I wouldn't use it, and it would get lost, so I'd never buy one. On the other hand, many (most?) of us here would regularly drop $13 on a book we'd finish in a couple hours and never look at again. For some people, a beautiful bookmark might get used and appreciated on a daily basis for many years.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What is yet unclear to me is how much of our economy is dependent on someone buying the wants that your store is selling. Amy in Orlando mentioned a couple days ago that she was putting her soap biz to sleep for a while. But how much of Best Buy, Borders and Macy's (not to mention Walmart, Sears, and Home Depot) are wants not needs? How many businesses in the US depend on people buying on impulse things that they don't need? What will happen if we all really did start to closely consider the difference between want and need.

 

For example, I may need to call a plumber if the pipes under the house break. But I may not need to replace the out of date fixture that has a sticky handle. And I will probably decide that the bathroom renovation really has to wait. (On the other hand, I may decide that a renovation is much better than trying to buy a new house. Sometimes stores like Home Depot do better when housing markets are slow.)

 

If our income depended on sales in a wants heavy sector, I would be pretty concerned about what the winter was going to look like.

 

Has anyone seen any discussion of the impact of the very low personal savings rate on the current credit crunch? I'm wondering how that has impacted the lack of available credit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't use bookmarks, but if I did, I sure wouldn't pay $13 for one, no matter what.

 

I turn down the corners on the pages instead -- major crime, I know. :D DH hates it when anyone does something to a book such that it no longer looks unread.

 

 

 

:smash: AHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU are the lady that I can't stand! That library patron who returns books with dog-eared pages all over the place. :sneaky2:

 

;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

:lol: Amy, I think that probably most of us on this board wouldn't spring for the luxury bookmark--but then, we're homeschoolers. We're not going to be a good representative sample of middle America. ;)

 

But I deeply believe that you've hit on something crucial. I remember many moons ago when the luxurious Tysons Galleria opened here and my little sister and I walked through it for the first time ogling the window displays. Finally she turned to me and said, "Leila, there's nothing--NOTHING--in this mall that any person NEEDS." And I looked at her and said, "I was thinking the same thing! I was thinking, 'conspicuous consumption.' "

 

I'm telling you the God's honest truth: That is EXACTLY the dialogue that we had: The mall is a temple to the god of consumption. I'm as much a capitalist as the next gal (and more of one than many), but honestly, our hyper-consumerist, instant gratification lifestyle--fueled by easy credit--is a big part of what got us into this mess.

 

So that's my long answer to your post. Now we know why I'm a thread killer! I probably should've just said :iagree: with you completely. :001_smile:

 

I kid you not, most of my DD's friends' best idea for fun is to go to the mall. DD is 12. It's only going to get worse.

 

I want her to have inner reserves to enjoy doing other things than mall and TV and restaurants. I want her to have the experiences that show her how satisfying wild nature, and reading a good book, and making some music, and maybe inviting people over for dinner can be. And I want her to have at least SOME good friends who feel that same way about it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Margaret, you took the words out of my mouth. What's wrong with our culture that there's a whole genre of gifts geared toward "the person who has everything"? :001_huh:

 

I agree with this even though I have been guilty of exactly the kind of rampant consumerism I now view with horror.

 

That being said, I'm deeply uncomfortable with passing judgment on someone who would buy a $13 bookmark if that's the only thing I know about them. For instance, what if instead of the usual lavish display of gifts a family decided to get meaningful token gifts instead and one person presented another one with just a bookmark that was less than $15. An indulgence but a minor indulgence compared to some and one related to reading.

 

I personally use bookmarks that have cost upwards of $100. For some reason, I find myself grabbing the grocery receipt for bookmarking.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But I deeply believe that you've hit on something crucial. I remember many moons ago when the luxurious Tysons Galleria opened here and my little sister and I walked through it for the first time ogling the window displays. Finally she turned to me and said, "Leila, there's nothing--NOTHING--in this mall that any person NEEDS." And I looked at her and said, "I was thinking the same thing! I was thinking, 'conspicuous consumption.' "

 

Hey now, while i havent' been there (i've driven by though - that count??) they have both...

 

An Apple store - i NEED stuff from there... really, i do! :tongue_smilie:

 

and, more importantly...

 

Levenger - instant Circa punch and other stuff to feed the habit (they will give you a free notebook of some sort if you go in there!)

 

Tysons has made it to the "must go to" list for my next trip up! LOL!!!

 

But we have a mall like that in Orlando.... sometimes it fun to window shop! (and spend $30 at the apple store).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I kid you not, most of my DD's friends' best idea for fun is to go to the mall. DD is 12. It's only going to get worse.

 

I want her to have inner reserves to enjoy doing other things than mall and TV and restaurants. I want her to have the experiences that show her how satisfying wild nature, and reading a good book, and making some music, and maybe inviting people over for dinner can be. And I want her to have at least SOME good friends who feel that same way about it.

 

 

Yes, the mall is thing is terrible amoung the tweens and teens. Those Hannah Montana-type shows on Disney Channel have a lot to do with it. And who came up with the phrase 'Retail Therapy'? Frankly, we women are all too eager to buy into this idea. How many mothers have the idea that shopping with their girls is a bonding experience?

 

Margaret

PS full disclosure: my purse cost $185.00. I know I'm part of the problem. I did pay cash, though. So you know, that's better right? right? ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, the mall is thing is terrible amoung the tweens and teens. Those Hannah Montana-type shows on Disney Channel have a lot to do with it. And who came up with the phrase 'Retail Therapy'? Frankly, we women are all too eager to buy into this idea. How many mothers have the idea that shopping with their girls is a bonding experience?

 

Margaret

PS full disclosure: my purse cost $185.00. I know I'm part of the problem. I did pay cash, though. So you know, that's better right? right? ;)

 

I am so sad that you got rid of Mary Catherine Gallagher! Please say she will reappear after the election.:001_smile:

 

Anyhoo--

 

My father absolutely refused to let us "hang out" at the mall. If we were going to the mall it had to be for a specific purpose and we had to actually purchase something with the money that we earned. And woe to her who was not at the door at the exact pre-determined time set before entering said mall. I am so glad that he never let us become Jersey Mallrats!;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

PS full disclosure: my purse cost $185.00. I know I'm part of the problem. I did pay cash, though. So you know, that's better right? right?

 

Yeah, Margaret - it's all your fault! The world's economy is crashing down because you weren't happy with $5 canvas tote from Walmart!! :)

 

All kidding aside, though, I think people ought to be able to spend their hard earned money on whatever gives them pleasure without being made to feel like they are doing someting wrong. If you have $185 and want to spend it on a nice purse, what the heck's wrong with that?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, Margaret - it's all your fault! The world's economy is crashing down because you weren't happy with $5 canvas tote from Walmart!! :)

 

All kidding aside, though, I think people ought to be able to spend their hard earned money on whatever gives them pleasure without being made to feel like they are doing someting wrong. If you have $185 and want to spend it on a nice purse, what the heck's wrong with that?

 

I agree. The problem is too many people who don't have $185 are still spending it on purses. If you have the money, and want to buy it, great. Ifn you don't, step away from the purse...

 

And that's what I think is being mostly argued here. It's not about people who truly can afford items getting those items. It's about the culture of consumerism (or whatever you call it) that encourages gross, repeated overspending of one's resources.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's really my point. It's not the $13 bookmark in and of itself, as some have pointed out there are times they could see that as reasonable.

 

I don't doubt that we all have items of value for which we would spend what others would deem a crazy amount of money. I certainly don't begrudge anyone that, and hope that people will do me the same courtesy by not pointing out my annual Diet Coke budget, TYVM.

 

But the mindset that allows some luxury item to continue to sell because it is "only" $13 is what bothers me. The economy is tanking, but the consumers will keep mindlessly consuming as long as they are psychologically soothed by a low enough pricepoint. That's what makes me want to scream and flail my arms.

 

I hope everyone on this board with a $13 bookmark or a $185 bag thoroughly enjoys them with no guilt. :D

 

I'm off to have my 2nd Diet Coke of the day.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Holy cow, it is a rare occasion for me to pay for a bookmark at all, let alone $13. There are so many free sources such as the library.

 

There is another thread going with people squealing about a BM with bungee with a pen holder for about that price. Hey, I could use that, and sometimes do get a "nice" little thing to make up for the fact I have never bought a PDA, a cell phone, an IPOD or Wii thing, never even a portable CD player or walkman, let alone a digital camera or video camera. If I never get one of those, can I get a bookmark that holds pens without burning for eternity for my terminal decadence?

 

(I do, however, have my mother's Victrola)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But don't you think it's a little presumptuous to assume that the very existance of a book bungee that costs over $10 means that a lot of people are buying them when they shouldn't be?

 

There have always been nicer, more expensive wares available to those who can afford them... all the way back in world history. I just don't get the connection between that and consumerism.

 

If people are buying things they can't afford, then yeah... that's a problem. But it's their spending that's the problem, not the availability of the product. Those book bungees are really cool, btw. Just as cool as a circa puncher or desk apprentice, imo, and no less a luxury item :).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think a $13 bookmark might be a nice gift for someone who loves to read but "has everything". This bookstore is surely selling them as gifts. Check this out:

http://www.amazon.com/Italian-Leather-Bookmarks-Burgundy-Boxed/dp/B000RTCRAU/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=office-products&qid=1223651709&sr=8-2

 

Margaret

 

And, hey, look! The Consumer who bought that also bought a Norelco Vacuum Trimmer! And don't those items go together nicely?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

Ă—
Ă—
  • Create New...