Insight or advice on how to deal with this parenting situation

[T'smom]

Ds always does the exact opposite of what I tell him to do. It's always when I say things in a nice, lighthearted way. Last night, he'd been playing outside barefoot and came in and jumped on my bed. I laughingly, said "oh, yuck, gross feet! Don't put gross feet on my bed!" He started rubbing his feet on the bed. (Referencing another thread) if he poured a ton of chocolate sauce on his ice cream, I would respond "whoa, buddy, easy on the sauce", he would grab the sauce and put more on. Why does he do this? How can I change to get different results. I have tried to train myself to not say things that sound like requests "can you put your shoes away?" As opposed to "put your shoes away now" Because anything said in a question form is answered with a "no". It is really hard to change these speech patterns because they are so ingrained. It was always considered more polite to say things as a question when I was growing up, and it has never been a problem for me before now. He has no obvious "issues", he has had no trauma in his life, Any ideas on how I can deal with this? He's 8, but he's been like this for at least 3 years. He does have other behavior issues, but I'd like to try to tackle this first.

[Jean in Newcastle]

"Let me rephrase that. . . get  your feet off of my bed."  The feet / bed thing sounds like teasing to me (in some contexts) and I could definitely see it leading to more of the same behavior.  The "Can you. . . " phrasing does not sound like teasing.  You could say "I want you to. . . ."  if you want to be direct in a different way. 

[gardenmom5]

Ds always does the exact opposite of what I tell him to do. It's always when I say things in a nice, lighthearted way. Last night, he'd been playing outside barefoot and came in and jumped on my bed. I laughingly, said "oh, yuck, gross feet! Don't put gross feet on my bed!" He started rubbing his feet on the bed. (Referencing another thread) if he poured a ton of chocolate sauce on his ice cream, I would respond "whoa, buddy, easy on the sauce", he would grab the sauce and put more on. Why does he do this? How can I change to get different results. I have tried to train myself to not say things that sound like requests "can you put your shoes away?" As opposed to "put your shoes away now" Because anything said in a question form is answered with a "no". It is really hard to change these speech patterns because they are so ingrained. It was always considered more polite to say things as a question when I was growing up, and it has never been a problem for me before now. He has no obvious "issues", he has had no trauma in his life, Any ideas on how I can deal with this? He's 8, but he's been like this for at least 3 years. He does have other behavior issues, but I'd like to try to tackle this first.

 

so - you made it a joke?  and expected him to take it seriously?

drop the humor - he's not  getting it.

[Annie G]

Would it help to have him repeat back to you what you want him to do (or not do)?   Ds had some issues as a little kid and we had to train him to look at us when we talked and repeat back to us what we told him.  It didn't take long to acclimate him to 'hear what we say, do what we say'.  And in just a couple of months we no longer had to ask him to repeat back to us. 

[Farrar]

I also would drop any sense of "politeness" or humor when dealing with him. Hopefully you can reintroduce it at some point, but he needs you to be super direct and clear every time. It sounds like you've already been working on retraining yourself on this for the questions, which is great. I'd extend it to being "nice" about requests. He doesn't need you to be nice. He needs you to be super clear and direct every time.

 

I'll add... I loathe that asking has become synonymous with polite in our society. I find it passive aggressive and there's nothing more rude than being passive aggressive. I know that many people - like you - are just doing what they were brought up to think is the right way, but honestly, if an adult tells me, another adult, "Would you like to put that there?" then I don't know how to treat it other than a question. How am I supposed to know if it's a suggestion or an order. If I don't want to put that there, how do I know if it's actually a rule or something. Just tell me! Don't ask and then act mad when I don't do it because it wasn't really a request. So, basically, from the POV of someone who deals with this as an adult... I can only imagine how horrible it is if you're a kid who doesn't read this sort of behavior.

[regentrude]

Humor and lightheartedness do not seem to produce the desired results. So I would be direct, but instead of a command phrase it as an "I" statement: "I need you to take your dirty feet off my bed".

[fairfarmhand]

Firm and direct. He's not getting the humor.

 

Some kids do okay with the polite requests and teasing style interactions.

 

Others require firmness and directness.

 

This is not the same as being unkind.

[lauraw4321]

Yup, I had to remove that kind of speech from my language as well. I don't ask a question unless it really is a question. I don't joke unless I'm really joking. 

[Wabi Sabi]

It sounds like he needs you to be more direct and firm, and that he's taking your playful tone as an opportunity to, well, play! 

"Oh, yuck, gross feet! Don't put gross feet on my bed!" could become "I do not want your feet on my bed. I need you to go wash them off before you climb onto my bed."

"Whoa, buddy, easy on the sauce" could be rephrased as "OK, that's a good amount of sauce. No more. Hand the bottle to me now, please."

 

Edited May 9, 2016 by Wabi Sabi

[strange_girl]

I have one of those :/

 

Yeah, there's no 'being polite' if you want to see results. I've learned to say, "Keep your feet off my bed." "Mom will do the chocolate sauce." Etc.

 

If they're not inclined to obey, I help them :D My hands will take their feet off the bed and continued disobedience results in discipline of parent's choice.

 

Some kids are just born to push the boundaries. It's not fun, but if the boundaries are very clear, it's a bit easier.

[T'smom]

Oh, he does know exactly what I want. It's hard to let go of the "nice" way of saying things, because basically, I feel like I'm walking around barking orders all the time. And he does not respond well to directness either. He gets mad and turns it into a confrontation. I'm trying to avoid the confrontation by letting him know what I want without confrontation.

[happi duck]

NM!

 

Posted at the same time as additional info.

Edited May 9, 2016 by happi duck

[MegP]

There is nothing wrong with confrontation. Sounds like he needs to realize that you are the mom and in charge.

[T'smom]

I also would drop any sense of "politeness" or humor when dealing with him. Hopefully you can reintroduce it at some point, but he needs you to be super direct and clear every time. It sounds like you've already been working on retraining yourself on this for the questions, which is great. I'd extend it to being "nice" about requests. He doesn't need you to be nice. He needs you to be super clear and direct every time.

 

I'll add... I loathe that asking has become synonymous with polite in our society. I find it passive aggressive and there's nothing more rude than being passive aggressive. I know that many people - like you - are just doing what they were brought up to think is the right way, but honestly, if an adult tells me, another adult, "Would you like to put that there?" then I don't know how to treat it other than a question. How am I supposed to know if it's a suggestion or an order. If I don't want to put that there, how do I know if it's actually a rule or something. Just tell me! Don't ask and then act mad when I don't do it because it wasn't really a request. So, basically, from the POV of someone who deals with this as an adult... I can only imagine how horrible it is if you're a kid who doesn't read this sort of behavior.

See, I see saying "could you hand me that glass?" to someone as being way more polite than "hand me that glass." For one thing, the question lets someone answer "oh, I can't, my hands are full." Which is perfectly acceptable. If I said that to my child and they responded that way, I would say "I didn't realize, I'll get it in a minute" or "well, put your video game down and get it!" It's an opening to a dialogue- not an executive order. And if I am talking to an adult- it IS a request, I don't give orders to anyone aside from my kids or other kids who I am specifically in charge of.

[T'smom]

There is nothing wrong with confrontation. Sounds like he needs to realize that you are the mom and in charge.

Well, there is plenty of confrontation in our day. I'm just trying to limit it to the important things.

[MegP]

I think that doing what he is told is important. But that is just me. I realize that others parent differently.

[The Governess]

Some kids just have to be confronted. They will push boundaries until they find a firm wall. At that age, I would have had to tell my oldest something like "You know that's way too much sauce. If you want to eat that ice cream, you need to scoop half of that sauce into the sink without arguing." Then she has all the information she needs to make a choice.

 

On the bright side, she has grown out of a lot of this sort of behavior, but communicating directly with her about expectations and consequences still works best for her.

[zoobie]

Have you read the Explosive Child? Is he neurotypical? ADHD and/or ODD?

[T'smom]

Have you read the Explosive Child? Is he neurotypical? ADHD and/or ODD?

I haven't, but I think I should. He is neurotypical- I don't think that he is ADHD, but he has never been evaluated for anything. In groups, (co-op, Sunday school, outside classes, Awana) he is perfectly behaved.

[happi duck]

We use "please" in place of "could you?".

 

Direct and clear is good. Direct does not mean harsh.

[HS Mom in NC]

I also would drop any sense of "politeness" or humor when dealing with him. Hopefully you can reintroduce it at some point, but he needs you to be super direct and clear every time. It sounds like you've already been working on retraining yourself on this for the questions, which is great. I'd extend it to being "nice" about requests. He doesn't need you to be nice. He needs you to be super clear and direct every time.

 

I'll add... I loathe that asking has become synonymous with polite in our society. I find it passive aggressive and there's nothing more rude than being passive aggressive. I know that many people - like you - are just doing what they were brought up to think is the right way, but honestly, if an adult tells me, another adult, "Would you like to put that there?" then I don't know how to treat it other than a question. How am I supposed to know if it's a suggestion or an order. If I don't want to put that there, how do I know if it's actually a rule or something. Just tell me! Don't ask and then act mad when I don't do it because it wasn't really a request. So, basically, from the POV of someone who deals with this as an adult... I can only imagine how horrible it is if you're a kid who doesn't read this sort of behavior.

 

 I more than like this.  I don't know how some people were sent the message that direct wording and matter of fact tone are somehow mean and rude. It's like they're missing the entire category of neutral and only recognize the categories of nice and mean. If it doesn't fit their definition of nice, then it must be mean. That's makes life so much harder in so many ways for everyone involved.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Your phrasing sounds more like you are kidding.  I think you need to be more serious and firm.

 

 

[Garga]

Hmmm. A lot could be going on here.

 

I've known a number of ADHD people who just love to do the exact opposite of what you tell them. My son and dh are two of them. Of course, DH is old enough to carefully pick when he'll do the opposite and only does so when it's not going to make the other person fly off the handle. Kids don't always know when it's ok to do the opposite vs when it's really, really not ok.

 

But it does seem to be a symptom of ADHD from my very limited observations. If there are other symptoms going on, you might want to look into it. An adhd person will not respond the same way that a neurotypical person will. You will have to learn a new way to deal with him and you will need to work on teaching him how to control him impulses. Though, honestly, I am jaded (referencing another thread) about how much an ADHD person can really control their impulses.

 

Regarding confrontation. This is a tricky one. I've tried to avoid it with humor or whatever, and that rarely works. Confronting it head on does often result in explosions. However, I read on the tomato staking website years and years ago (is that website still up?) that when you know there's an issue that needs to be addressed, you should not shy away from it. You should not walk on eggshells in your own home. If a child is explosive during a confrontation, you need to keep allowing the confrontations and work through them, teaching the child how to handle a confrontation without exploding. Tons and tons of hard work for this one. Now, you do not goad a child into a confrontation, of course! The point is that you do not pander to the problem. You do not tiptoe around the child. You behave as anyone would in society and then teach the child how to handle it. If the explosions happen, they happen. You don't bend over backwards trying to keep Junior happy-happy. It just teaches Junior how to be manipulative and keep the members of the household hostage to his moods. Not that Junior is a bad person and being manipulative on purpose. That's just what he learns as a byproduct of tip toeing around his explosions.

 

For example, right now my youngest is turning out to be a horrible team player when it comes to doing chores with anyone else. But in life he is going to have to work with other people. So rather than letting him do chores alone and not asking for him to help his brother or me to avoid his bad temper, I am making him do all the chores with me or his brother and I am actively teaching him how to work as a team without biting off his teammate's head if the chore isn't done the way he wants it done. I'm not goading him while we're doing chores. I'm not harrassing him. We're just quietly washing dishes together and if he snarks we stop and deal with the snark.

 

The joking: Yeah, you just can't do it with this child. Tell him firmly exactly what you want. Warn him every day for a few weeks, "Remember, Ralphie, that when I tell you to do something, you must do what I said. If you do the opposite, then X will happen." Be sure to give him notice that things will be changing and be very clear about what X will be and follow through, no matter what. (So pick your X carefully.)

 

There's a lot going on here: gently humorous requests being ignored, you being reticent to deal with his explosions, his explosions, the possibility of ADHD or something like that. It might take a while to sort out what is what.

Edited May 9, 2016 by Garga

[Garga]

I also would drop any sense of "politeness" or humor when dealing with him. Hopefully you can reintroduce it at some point, but he needs you to be super direct and clear every time. It sounds like you've already been working on retraining yourself on this for the questions, which is great. I'd extend it to being "nice" about requests. He doesn't need you to be nice. He needs you to be super clear and direct every time.

 

I'll add... I loathe that asking has become synonymous with polite in our society. I find it passive aggressive and there's nothing more rude than being passive aggressive. I know that many people - like you - are just doing what they were brought up to think is the right way, but honestly, if an adult tells me, another adult, "Would you like to put that there?" then I don't know how to treat it other than a question. How am I supposed to know if it's a suggestion or an order. If I don't want to put that there, how do I know if it's actually a rule or something. Just tell me! Don't ask and then act mad when I don't do it because it wasn't really a request. So, basically, from the POV of someone who deals with this as an adult... I can only imagine how horrible it is if you're a kid who doesn't read this sort of behavior.

  

I more than like this.  I don't know how some people were sent the message that direct wording and matter of fact tone are somehow mean and rude. It's like they're missing the entire category of neutral and only recognize the categories of nice and mean. If it doesn't fit their definition of nice, then it must be mean. That's makes life so much harder in so many ways for everyone involved.

 

I agree. I have offended people in the past with being direct and concise. I play the game now, just to get along, but I hate it.

[MegP]

I heard that that tomatoes message board closed but it looks like the website is still there.

[Farrar]

See, I see saying "could you hand me that glass?" to someone as being way more polite than "hand me that glass." For one thing, the question lets someone answer "oh, I can't, my hands are full." Which is perfectly acceptable. If I said that to my child and they responded that way, I would say "I didn't realize, I'll get it in a minute" or "well, put your video game down and get it!" It's an opening to a dialogue- not an executive order. And if I am talking to an adult- it IS a request, I don't give orders to anyone aside from my kids or other kids who I am specifically in charge of.

 

I think there's a line somewhere. If you're, say, putting dishes away with another adult and say, "Could you hand me that glass?" then, yes, it's a request. It's fine to phrase it that way because it's genuinely a request and if they say no, then you're (hopefully) going to assume that there's a good reason, like, maybe their hands are full, or they can't help anymore and you're okay with that because you trust they helped for the time they could.

 

But a lot of people use it all the time now. So, I walk into someone's home and they say, "Would you like to take off your shoes?" I have no clue at this point if that's a request or if they're trying to passive agressively tell me it's a house rule that they take their shoes off. So much more polite if they just say, "So, we try to keep a shoe free house. Here's the shoe bench." Or whatever. Don't request if it's not a request. I was once followed around a store by an employee who kept asking me if I'd "like" to go outside. It was so freaking weird and uncomfortable. Finally, I saw a sign and figured out she was really trying to tell me that my toddler was eating a cracker in his stroller and there was no food allowed. Fine. If she had just said that then I could have decided how to deal with it. I wouldn't have kept saying, no, I want to keep shopping and been confused as to why she was so mad at me. She was being "polite" in the rudest possible way.

 

I think it's just ingrained in a lot of people - especially women! - not to direct, but to ask, even if you're trying to direct. I think it's a messed up message we're teaching. I think it's a dysfunction in society. And people like me, who tend to be slow on the uptake in the moment (I tend to get it about ten minutes later) when people are roundabout, tend to get hurt by it. I think it's a double edged sword for women too because I think we use it on each other more and are more hurt when women don't get it.

 

In terms of kids, if we're back in that kitchen putting those dishes away and they're not mature enough to organize their own tasks, then it's an order. It's genuinely not a request. So it shouldn't become one.

[T'smom]

Hmmm. A lot could be going on here.

 

I've known a number of ADHD people who just love to do the exact opposite of what you tell them. My son and dh are two of them. Of course, DH is old enough to carefully pick when he'll do the opposite and only does so when it's not going to make the other person fly off the handle. Kids don't always know when it's ok to do the opposite vs when it's really, really not ok.

 

But it does seem to be a symptom of ADHD from my very limited observations. If there are other symptoms going on, you might want to look into it. An adhd person will not respond the same way that a neurotypical person will. You will have to learn a new way to deal with him and you will need to work on teaching him how to control him impulses. Though, honestly, I am jaded (referencing another thread) about how much an ADHD person can really control their impulses.

 

Regarding confrontation. This is a tricky one. I've tried to avoid it with humor or whatever, and that rarely works. Confronting it head on does often result in explosions. However, I read on the tomato staking website years and years ago (is that website still up?) that when you know there's an issue that needs to be addressed, you should not shy away from it. You should not walk on eggshells in your own home. If a child is explosive during a confrontation, you need to keep allowing the confrontations and work through them, teaching the child how to handle a confrontation without exploding. Tons and tons of hard work for this one. Now, you do not goad a child into a confrontation, of course! The point is that you do not pander to the problem. You do not tiptoe around the child. You behave as anyone would in society and then teach the child how to handle it. If the explosions happen, they happen. You don't bend over backwards trying to keep Junior happy-happy. It just teaches Junior how to be manipulative and keep the members of the household hostage to his moods. Not that Junior is a bad person and being manipulative on purpose. That's just what he learns as a byproduct of tip toeing around his explosions.

 

For example, right now my youngest is turning out to be a horrible team player when it comes to doing chores with anyone else. But in life he is going to have to work with other people. So rather than letting him do chores alone and not asking for him to help his brother or me to avoid his bad temper, I am making him do all the chores with me or his brother and I am actively teaching him how to work as a team without biting off his teammate's head if the chore isn't done the way he wants it done. I'm not goading him while we're doing chores. I'm not harrassing him. We're just quietly washing dishes together and if he snarks we stop and deal with the snark.

 

The joking: Yeah, you just can't do it with this child. Tell him firmly exactly what you want. Warn him every day for a few weeks, "Remember, Ralphie, that when I tell you to do something, you must do what I said. If you do the opposite, then X will happen." Be sure to give him notice that things will be changing and be very clear about what X will be and follow through, no matter what. (So pick your X carefully.)

 

There's a lot going on here: gently humorous requests being ignored, you being reticent to deal with his explosions, his explosions, the possibility of ADHD or something like that. It might take a while to sort out what is what.

Thank you. I promise I am not trying to avoid explosions. We have several every single day. I would like to limit them, so that every single interaction we have doesn't devolve into negativity. But you have given me something to think about.

[MFG]

 

 

I agree. I have offended people in the past with being direct and concise. I play the game now, just to get along, but I hate it.

You are nicer than I am. If people want to take offense at polite but direct and concise speech, they will just have to be offended.

[SKL]

Try to phrase it in the positive, rather than saying "don't."  When you say "don't do x" you are telling your child to visualize doing x / focus on x and then come up with whatever is the opposite of that.  If you say "dirty feet on the floor" or "clean feet on the bed" or "wash your feet first" that may lead to a different result.

[T'smom]

I think there's a line somewhere. If you're, say, putting dishes away with another adult and say, "Could you hand me that glass?" then, yes, it's a request. It's fine to phrase it that way because it's genuinely a request and if they say no, then you're (hopefully) going to assume that there's a good reason, like, maybe their hands are full, or they can't help anymore and you're okay with that because you trust they helped for the time they could.

 

But a lot of people use it all the time now. So, I walk into someone's home and they say, "Would you like to take off your shoes?" I have no clue at this point if that's a request or if they're trying to passive agressively tell me it's a house rule that they take their shoes off. So much more polite if they just say, "So, we try to keep a shoe free house. Here's the shoe bench." Or whatever. Don't request if it's not a request. I was once followed around a store by an employee who kept asking me if I'd "like" to go outside. It was so freaking weird and uncomfortable. Finally, I saw a sign and figured out she was really trying to tell me that my toddler was eating a cracker in his stroller and there was no food allowed. Fine. If she had just said that then I could have decided how to deal with it. I wouldn't have kept saying, no, I want to keep shopping and been confused as to why she was so mad at me. She was being "polite" in the rudest possible way.

 

I think it's just ingrained in a lot of people - especially women! - not to direct, but to ask, even if you're trying to direct. I think it's a messed up message we're teaching. I think it's a dysfunction in society. And people like me, who tend to be slow on the uptake in the moment (I tend to get it about ten minutes later) when people are roundabout, tend to get hurt by it. I think it's a double edged sword for women too because I think we use it on each other more and are more hurt when women don't get it.

 

In terms of kids, if we're back in that kitchen putting those dishes away and they're not mature enough to organize their own tasks, then it's an order. It's genuinely not a request. So it shouldn't become one.

Ok, I couldn't even think of an example where I would be telling an adult what to do, but in the situations you described I would have been direct. I would have said to you, "I'm sorry, we don't allow eating in here." In the situation of shoes, I would say "could you take off your shoes while you're inside" because maybe you have some reason for keeping your shoes on? But I wouldn't phrase it "would you like to...." I have never been offended by the way someone phrased something to me.

[SKL]

I would also make eye contact and stop what you're doing so he knows you mean business. Then say "stop" and pause.  Wait until he stops and turns his attention to what you will say next.  Then say what he needs to do.

 

If he won't stop when you say stop, that is something to work on .  I have one like that.  It can lead to trouble, so we work on it.

[T'smom]

Oh, if I seriously cared more about the shoes than your company in my house, I would have said "please take off your shoes at the door." But I wouldn't care more about shoes than a guest's comfort. I guess if I had some medical reason for trying to keep my floors super-clean, I would state that "we are not wearing shoes in here because of x, please leave them by the door."

 

This is so complicated! I promise, IRL, no one misunderstands me!

[snickerplum]

I worked at a retail store in high school. We were told that if the detectors near the doors went off we were to go to the customer and say,"I'm sorry. We must have failed to remove an anti-theft device when you made your purchase. Would you like to come with me to a register so that I can fix that for you?" I thought it was stupid and passive aggressive. You don't have to accuse anyone of stealing, but a "I'm going to need to check your bag" with a smile is fine.

I'm sorry your son is being defiant. I'm a total rule follower, so when my children do the opposite of what I say it bothers me more than it may others. I know they're children and not perfect, and it's not like I yell at them all the time. :-) it just drives me nuts.

[Carrie12345]

See, I see saying "could you hand me that glass?" to someone as being way more polite than "hand me that glass." For one thing, the question lets someone answer "oh, I can't, my hands are full." Which is perfectly acceptable. If I said that to my child and they responded that way, I would say "I didn't realize, I'll get it in a minute" or "well, put your video game down and get it!" It's an opening to a dialogue- not an executive order. And if I am talking to an adult- it IS a request, I don't give orders to anyone aside from my kids or other kids who I am specifically in charge of.

 

"Hand me that glass, please," leaves just as much room for "Sorry, my hands are full," and none for "Well, I COULD, giggle, giggle, snark, snark."

[BlsdMama]

I also would drop any sense of "politeness" or humor when dealing with him. Hopefully you can reintroduce it at some point, but he needs you to be super direct and clear every time. It sounds like you've already been working on retraining yourself on this for the questions, which is great. I'd extend it to being "nice" about requests. He doesn't need you to be nice. He needs you to be super clear and direct every time.

 

I'll add... I loathe that asking has become synonymous with polite in our society. I find it passive aggressive and there's nothing more rude than being passive aggressive. I know that many people - like you - are just doing what they were brought up to think is the right way, but honestly, if an adult tells me, another adult, "Would you like to put that there?" then I don't know how to treat it other than a question. How am I supposed to know if it's a suggestion or an order. If I don't want to put that there, how do I know if it's actually a rule or something. Just tell me! Don't ask and then act mad when I don't do it because it wasn't really a request. So, basically, from the POV of someone who deals with this as an adult... I can only imagine how horrible it is if you're a kid who doesn't read this sort of behavior.

<3

 

 

Yes, say what you mean and mean what you say. With this one it will be a good rule of thumb.

[GinaPagnato]

You know, I think this is just your ds being a silly, immature little kid. Barring any other problem behavioral issues, I think this is just something he'll outgrow.

 

One of my dc used to do the same thing. He thought it was hysterical to behave in very similar ways. He's (mostly) outgrown that sort of silly impulsivity, and it's certainly not something we have to deal with everyday anymore, nor does it negatively impact his relationships with others.

 

I handled it in a variety of ways. Sometimes I would lose it and yell...true story, though I always felt bad afterwards. I would often grab hold of his leg/arm/face, whatever, and very firmly say, "Your feet are dirty. I do not want them on my bed. Go wash them and then you can come get in my bed." It was like I had to always anticipate what reckless move he was going to make. And to be honest, it did feel like I was always ordering him around, so to counteract that I tried to be loose and sunny in other interactions we had where it didn't matter as much. Maybe not a perfect method, but it was okay. Ds has mostly outgrown this sort of thing as he's matured, and he doesn't seem troubled by my parenting. So far...  ;)

[HS Mom in NC]

Never ask a question unless you actually want to know the answer.

As stated up thread, say what you mean and mean what you say.

When you ask/make a request, be prepared for all possible answers, including no. If no isn't an acceptable response to the question you're asking then don't ask the question. Give a firm and polite command.

 

There are plenty of polite ways to phrase imperative (gives a command or makes a request) sentences (ends with a period)  without turning them into interrogative (asks a question) sentences (ends with a question mark.) 

"Please _put that there/stop doing that/come over here/other command______." is always acceptable. Just because you're emotionally uncomfortable with it doesn't mean it's wrong or mean.

And here's another thought for you, if you're hurt or upset by neutral or mater of fact statements and refuse to use them then it's possible your child(ren) will learn to be unnecessarily hurt and upset when other people use neutral and matter of fact language with them. I want my children to be able to hear these kinds of things without being upset because I don't want them to be snowflakes.  There are enough situations in life that are going to be upsetting and hurtful because they're truly upsetting and hurtful.  I don't want to add unnecessary hurt and pain to that list by teaching and practicing passive aggressive phrasing. My kids need to be able to hear harsh language, criticism, correction, commands and the like when it's appropriate so they're prepared for real life.In real life, other people aren't fretting about your every single precious feeling. Employers, managers, co-workers, clients, neighbors, classmates and all those people we interact with during the day aren't usually passively aggressively asking indirect questions.

Men in general don't don't use ingratiating and or passive aggressive language with each other. We could learn from them.

[HS Mom in NC]

Oh, if I seriously cared more about the shoes than your company in my house, I would have said "please take off your shoes at the door." But I wouldn't care more about shoes than a guest's comfort. I guess if I had some medical reason for trying to keep my floors super-clean, I would state that "we are not wearing shoes in here because of x, please leave them by the door."

 

This is so complicated! I promise, IRL, no one misunderstands me!

 

That's quite an accusation.  In homes where removing shoes is a house rule (not mine, I have a do-what-you-please-about-your-shoes household even though my family members prefer to barefoot as much as possible) it's not about caring about shoes more than people. If this is the attitude you take please don't accept invitations to Asian households and households out West (I'm unfamiliar with other regional norms in the US) because you will be required to remove your shoes in many of them.  They won't phrase it passive aggressively either.  They'll say very nicely, "Please leave your shoes here when you come in." or "We don't wear shoes in our house." or something like that.  Don't take it personally, don't use it as a measure of how your company ranks compared to your shoes, don't decide it's symbolic of the nature of your relationship.  Take off the shoes without negativity (verbal or silent) or decline the invitation.

[zoobie]

I haven't, but I think I should. He is neurotypical- I don't think that he is ADHD, but he has never been evaluated for anything. In groups, (co-op, Sunday school, outside classes, Awana) he is perfectly behaved.

Holding it together for a short, closed period of time doesn't rule out ADHD or any behavioral issues. Especially during a novel and active class.

[Kiara.I]

I have a child who also likes to get immediately mad and do the opposite of what he's told, too.  I also think mine is neurotypical.  I may, of course, be mistaken.

 

I would absolutely move to a "You need to x,y,z" phrasing, and avoid the negative version of the phrasing.  "Don't put your feet on my bed" becomes "Feet off my bed."

 

Work on connecting.  Really work HARD on connecting.

So how best does your son connect?  Does he connect through wrestling or playfighting?  Snuggles?  Read-alouds?  Quiet conversation over lunch?  Whatever it is, try to do more of it.  And try some other ways of connecting, too.

 

Continue all the coaching you're doing on responses to requests, and ways of coping with frustration.

[LMD]

Oooh, my 8 year old son loves to do this. It actually annoys me more lately as he does it to other adults and comes off as really disrespectful and arrogant.

 

I think that it is just him playing at being a clown and trying to figure out grown up joking around. We're a fairly jokey/sarcastic family, but he's not yet able to pick his moments well. When your stressed out mother asks you to do something, do NOT pretend to do the opposite and laugh!

 

Anyway,my sympathies, thanks for this thread. I'm reading the replies too.

[ThisIsTheDay]

I agree, I don't think is unusual behavior for this age, and they do often find themselves terribly amusing. I would sit down with him and explain to him how annoying it is.  "When I tell you to do something, it is NOT okay for you to continue doing it, or do it more."  Give a couple of examples. "From now on, when I tell you to do something, I expect you to honor my request."

 

I would also not ask and not say, "I want you to . . .  "  After working with children in a public setting (library), I learned the best way to get compliance is to say, very matter of factly, "You need to . . ."  It removes me from the request, and directs their focus on their own behavior.