Dog Search: Breed Advice

[Scarlett]

Wow. Thank you all so much for sharing this kind of information. So heartbreaking!

 

I have had a look at some of the Cav rescues, and I agree that I don't think we will have a chance of adopting one that would be comfortable in our home.

 

Do you think it is worth it to try to find a good Cav breeder? I mean, if the people breeding champion dogs, endorsed by the AKC, aren't being honest, what chance do we have of finding a good one? Also, we have no intention of breeding dogs -- how responsible/ethical would it be for the Cav breed for us to find one without these issues, and then have it spayed or neutered? It almost seems like we have an obligation to the breed to help breed healthy dogs.

 

Sigh. This is so complicated. Are there other smallish spaniels or spaniel crosses that might work well? What about Springers?

I have a Brittany and she is a doll. She loves her humans though and wants to be with us all the time.

 

But like Jeans Springer they need lots of exercise.

Edited May 8, 2016 by Scarlett

[Bluegoat]

I'm conflicted.

 

I think it's rather arrogant to say they shouldn't exist at all.  After all, people intentionally breeding dogs is how we got all the breeds we have today.  And who am I to say we already have enough breeds?

 

But OTOH -- Historically breeds were developed to fill a need.  Often that was a local need for a hunting, herding or guarding dog with a bit different skill set or temperament than any existing breeds.  They were almost always bred with a purpose and an end goal in mind, even if it was just warming the feet of the royal ladies.

 

The important point (to my way of thinking) is that as far as I know money was not the purpose or the end goal.

 

And as far as I can tell money pretty much IS the purpose and end goal of the breeders of all these "spoos" and "doodles" and "chons" and what have yous.  I just can't see that any of those "breeds" fill any sort of need that isn't already being ably handled by other breeds already in existence.

 

Even the man who first came up with the idea of breeding Labradoodles--a man who did know (or certainly should have known) what he was doing with regard to breeding, and who definitely did have a purpose and an end goal that was much more noble than wanting to make money--totally regrets that he did it.

 

Quoting from the article:

 

 

 

 

 

Also, if I had some concern about being able to find an ethical breeder of a breed that has been in existence for centuries and has a well established breed club(s), I'd have myself totally tied in knots thinking about finding an ethical breeder of one of these mixes.  I'm sure there are some of them.  But I believe about 99 percent of them are in it for the money.  Some of them are probably people who truly do adore their dogs.  You can adore your dogs and still breed them only for the money.  But when you don't have a breed club or a breed standard then what guides your program?  Who decides what's acceptable or not for the breed?  Who decides what health testing, if any, should be done?  How do you know what your goal is?  Bash the AKC and purebred breed clubs all you (generic) want to, but every single breed in existence has a standard that has been thoughtfully developed and honed over the years by people who truly love the breed.  And reputable breeders aim to meet those standards.  As someone who might be interested in adding a dog to my family I can read breed standards and descriptions and know what to expect in a puppy.  I can go to dog shows and every dog there of a particular breed is going to come very close to meeting that breed's standard.  If I decide that's the right breed for me I can then hunt for a good, ethical breeder and have a very good idea of what the puppy I'm getting will be like.  I can't do that with designer dogs because there are no breed standards, no breed club overseeing things, and Breeder A, B, C and D might all be breeding for totally different things.

 

It's true that breeds and types of dogs came to exist to fulfill a need, but for most of history that wasn't done the way it is now, where there is a pool of registered dogs and to "count" as one of the breed both parents had to be registered.

 

Before the development of kennel clubs, dogs were bred largely for having the right characteristics to do a job, and geography tended to isolate populations too, so you got recognizable types of dogs.  Arguably it would even be wrong to call them breeds in the modern sense.  Often they were more like functional categories - herding dogs, ratting dogs, sight-hounds, scent-hounds, guard dogs etc.

 

However, because there was nothing like a registration, there was always the possibility of new genetic material coming in, except in cases where there was significant geographical isolation.  And since there wasn't spaying and neutering wildly practiced, some of that even happened incidentally, as well as breeders looking to use dogs that seemed to fit their needs.  The combination of dogs who weren't fit to work being culled, and less of a genetic bottleneck, meant more functional dogs.

 

I think it is actually pretty hard to make a good argument that as a whole, breed clubs have looked to preserve dogs in their function and typieness.  In some cases they have, but in many the dogs that win shows look little like the breed did 100 years ago when it was working, and the modern dogs are in fact not that useful for the jobs they were intended for.

 

As for whether the cross-bred dogs have some purpose that the purebreds don't - there can be several.  With pet/lap dogs, arguably these dogs are all in the same function category anyway.  Sometimes however there may be a desire for a dog of a type that has a new characteristic.  This is why poodles are a common cross, for people who have allergy issues.  Another goal is sometimes to reduce yappiness.  But in many cases it is simply to get a dog that is healthier.  Dogs like pugs for example are prone to so many serious health issues, many of which affect their quality of life, that people sometimes want a dog who will have some relief and just be healthier.  Particularly in dogs who are prone to cancers it can be a desire for hybrid vigour - because that can come from too much inbreeding. 

 

It is actually becoming increasingly common to see people breeding for pet type dogs that look a lot like popular breeds used to look, and don't have the health issues that come with the breeders exaggerations - for example you can find little dogs that look a lot like an old-fashioned dachshunds, or bulldogs.

 

Something to think about is that in working animals, it is actually much more common to see purposeful cross-breeds.  You see it some with working dogs, and also with various kinds of performance horses.  In agriculture it is so common that in some cases it is less common to see purebreds than various crosses, and many of those you do see are kept specifically for cross-breeding.

 

There is a reason people with real working animals that they depend on for a job aren't afraid of crosses.

[Bluegoat]

I love beagles, but I am concerned about howling (apartments, marinas, RV campgrounds are all about living with other people in small spaces), the amount of exercise they may need, house training, and how well they would do in-cabin on an airplane ride (to Montreal from San Diego, for example). 

 

Beagles often seem to run away as well. 

[SeaConquest]

I have a Brittany and she is a doll. She loves her humans though and wants to be with us all the time.

 

But like Jeans Springer they need lots of exercise.

 

I love Brittanys (sp?). I am just concerned that he/she will be too big. 

 

Does anyone have any experience with a Boykin Spaniel? A smaller one looks to be about the same size as my cocker.

[Ellie]

The Cavachon, Spoodle, and Cavoodle all look like possibilities. What do the experienced dog folks have to say about these types of crosses? 

 

Sweet mutt dogs happen. :-) However, I don't agree with purposely breeding one purebred dog with a different breed. You end up with a mutt dog--a cute mutt dog, and a good companion, but still a mutt dog. Even if you make up a clever-sounding name, and charge hundreds of dollars for them, they are still mutt dogs. When you have mutt dogs, you cannot predict what they will be like. 

 

If you want a mixed breed dog, go to the animal shelter. You'll be saving a dog's life. :-)

[Joker]

I have a Beagle / Terrier mix we got through a rescue and he is the sweetest thing ever and great with kids. But, I would never take him on a boat or plane. We have to board him when we travel. When we moved to a new state, we had to give him tranquilizers to make it bearable for him and us. He hates being confined in such a small space.

[Catalytic]

AKC does not *endorse* anyone. I don't believe that ACK "recommends" breeders, either; there are lists of breeders which have AKC-registered dogs, but that is not a "recommendation".

 

I'm very sorry, of course, that you had such a bad experience. :-( But it is not AKC's fault.

 

When I called the AKC in January 2013, they most certainly DID recommend a breeder, one they had inspected many times.  I called myself doing due diligence, checked the BBB for complaints, called the state, saw some of the breeder's dogs that were local to me.  What I didn't do was Google the breeder's name....if I had, I would have seen that a week after their last AKC inspection, they'd had over 200 dogs seized by the state for neglect and other reasons.  Somehow they won the court case and got the dogs back that survived.  Unfortunately I didn't find this out until I'd already taken delivery of a very sick puppy.  Thousands of  dollars later, I had to have the puppy put to sleep.  It took the breeder over a year to refund my purchase price, and of course none of the vet bills were reimbursed.

 

I then attempted to get a dog through rescues in my state, only to find none of them would adopt to people with young children (my youngest was 4) and/or they didn't adopt to military families.  (And they didn't care that we have never abandoned an animal, that we have 5 other rescued animals, along with adoption papers for 4 and vet records for YEARS for all 5.)

 

With no local breeders for the breed I wanted, and no interest in a breeder from out of state again, I found a semi-local designer dog breeder.  I imagine that individual is a BYB/borderline puppy mill, and it ticks me off that I had to go that route, but it is what it is.  We have a dog we love, that loves us.

 

So, maybe AKC doesn't exactly endorse, but when they gave me a recommendation and told me about inspecting the kennels of the breeder, it sure *felt* like an endorsement....

[Bluegoat]

When I called the AKC in January 2013, they most certainly DID recommend a breeder, one they had inspected many times.  I called myself doing due diligence, checked the BBB for complaints, called the state, saw some of the breeder's dogs that were local to me.  What I didn't do was Google the breeder's name....if I had, I would have seen that a week after their last AKC inspection, they'd had over 200 dogs seized by the state for neglect and other reasons.  Somehow they won the court case and got the dogs back that survived.  Unfortunately I didn't find this out until I'd already taken delivery of a very sick puppy.  Thousands of  dollars later, I had to have the puppy put to sleep.  It took the breeder over a year to refund my purchase price, and of course none of the vet bills were reimbursed.

 

I then attempted to get a dog through rescues in my state, only to find none of them would adopt to people with young children (my youngest was 4) and/or they didn't adopt to military families.  (And they didn't care that we have never abandoned an animal, that we have 5 other rescued animals, along with adoption papers for 4 and vet records for YEARS for all 5.)

 

With no local breeders for the breed I wanted, and no interest in a breeder from out of state again, I found a semi-local designer dog breeder.  I imagine that individual is a BYB/borderline puppy mill, and it ticks me off that I had to go that route, but it is what it is.  We have a dog we love, that loves us.

 

So, maybe AKC doesn't exactly endorse, but when they gave me a recommendation and told me about inspecting the kennels of the breeder, it sure *felt* like an endorsement....

 

Not all people who do crossbreeding are mills though.  I think what can be hard is finding out what other options there are.  I know a few people who breed lap dogs in very small numbers - maybe a litter a year, they are very much pet dogs living in the home.  Usually they are all spoken for before the breeding even takes place.  It seems to be a word of mouth thing though.

 

I've never seen any really good way to figure it out besides going and seeing, and maybe over a long period of time.  It seems common to find out later that something is amiss, even with people who are supposedly doing things right.

[ktgrok]

I love beagles, but I am concerned about howling (apartments, marinas, RV campgrounds are all about living with other people in small spaces), the amount of exercise they may need, house training, and how well they would do in-cabin on an airplane ride (to Montreal from San Diego, for example). 

 

Good point! Forgot about that. Shih Tzu kept in a puppy cut maybe. 

[MercyA]

I love beagles, but I am concerned about howling (apartments, marinas, RV campgrounds are all about living with other people in small spaces), the amount of exercise they may need, house training, and how well they would do in-cabin on an airplane ride (to Montreal from San Diego, for example). 

 

A full grown beagle will be too large to fly in-cabin. The carrier has to fit under the seat AND the dog must be able to stand up and turn around in the carrier. It's been a while since I've flown with a dog, but I think the weight limit is usually around 20 pounds, including the carrier (check with the airline you usually use). I flew many times with my 14 lb. Chihuahua/terrier mix, and once or twice I had an airline employee tell me my carrier wasn't big enough. (My dog loved his carrier and did great in it, but he definitely couldn't have been any bigger and still fit!) 

 

If you decide to go with a Cavalier, you will probably want a female because they weigh less. However, at 15-18 pounds, they are not guaranteed to be able to fly in-cabin.

Edited May 8, 2016 by MercyA

[Scarlett]

I love Brittanys (sp?). I am just concerned that he/she will be too big.

 

Does anyone have any experience with a Boykin Spaniel? A smaller one looks to be about the same size as my cocker.

Probably. She is about 45 pounds.

[SeaConquest]

A full grown beagle will be too large to fly in-cabin. The carrier has to fit under the seat AND the dog must be able to stand up and turn around in the carrier. It's been a while since I've flown with a dog, but I think the weight limit is usually around 20 pounds, including the carrier (check with the airline you usually use). I flew many times with my 14 lb. Chihuahua/terrier mix, and once or twice I had an airline employee tell me my carrier wasn't big enough. (My dog loved his carrier and did great in it, but he definitely couldn't have been any bigger and still fit!) 

 

If you decide to go with a Cavalier, you will probably want a female because they weigh less. However, at 15-18 pounds, they are not guaranteed to be able to fly in-cabin.

 

I know that this practice is controversial for some, but I would be flying the dog(s) as emotional support animal(s), which do not have the same restrictions re size. They just need to be well behaved. The airlines also require that the dog(s) sit at your feet, and not block the aisle. But, airlines do have to make reasonable accommodations (move you to a bulkhead or a row with less people, etc.). My goal would be to be as unobtrusive as possible, not raising the ire of either the flight attendants or the passengers, which is another reason why a lapdog/something that can fit into a large sherpa bag would probably be the best choice for us. 

[Sugarfoot]

I've had many dogs in my lifetime. Right now, we have 2 Cavalier King Charles spaniels--one male, one female. They just turned 7 in January. I love them to pieces...

 

but:

They were the most difficult dogs to house train that we've ever owned. 

 

They both have had excessive (and very expensive) health problems---one of them became diabetic 2 years ago. He will have cataract surgery in 3 weeks to hopefully restore his sight. He's not yet completely blind, but it's getting worse by the week. His cataracts first became noticeable in Sept. The surgery is $5000.

 

We have a pool in the backyard, but neither of them will go into the water. Our Golden Retrievers loved the pool so much, as did our Cocker/Shih-Tzu mix,  and were in it every day, so we were really surprised that the Cavaliers dislike it so much. 

 

They cannot tolerate heat (or much cold) at all, so being outside with the kids once the temps are above 75 isn't possible.

 

They are both too big to ride in an under-the-seat carrier on an airplane. They're not big for their breed. (Our neighbor has one as well, and he's about the same size as our larger one and not yet full-grown.)

 

 

ETA: Both of ours are AKC registered. The male welghs 28 pounds and the female weighs 22.

Edited May 8, 2016 by Sugarfoot

[MercyA]

I know that this practice is controversial for some, but I would be flying the dog(s) as emotional support animal(s), which do not have the same restrictions re size. 

 

Ah, sorry. You did mention that earlier and it slipped my mind. In your position, I would definitely still look for a dog under 20 pounds.

[Shelly in IL]

FYI - "spoos" were mentioned up thread. Spoo is an affectionate name for a standard poodle - quite purebred. Just saying. We have both a standard and a cavalier. The cavalier is a darling who would love to do nothing all day but be loved. (Of course the standard is that way, too!)

[livetoread]

If I was looking for a small, sweet, healthy dog, I'd look at the Havenese like someone else mentioned, and the Coton de Tulear. I think they are both expensive though.

[Ellie]

FYI - "spoos" were mentioned up thread. Spoo is an affectionate name for a standard poodle - quite purebred. Just saying. We have both a standard and a cavalier. The cavalier is a darling who would love to do nothing all day but be loved. (Of course the standard is that way, too!)

 

Huh. I've never heard that before.

 

Of course a standard poodle is a purebred. Are there people who think they are not?

[Shelly in IL]

No, they mentioned "Spoo" as a designer dog. Just clarifying that a "spoo" is a name for a standard poodle.(S(standard)Poo(Poodle)).

Edited May 8, 2016 by Shelly in IL

[Pawz4me]

FYI - "spoos" were mentioned up thread. Spoo is an affectionate name for a standard poodle - quite purebred. Just saying. We have both a standard and a cavalier. The cavalier is a darling who would love to do nothing all day but be loved. (Of course the standard is that way, too!)

 

 

Huh. I've never heard that before.

 

Of course a standard poodle is a purebred. Are there people who think they are not?

 

I think that was my mistake, and one I certainly know better than to do!  I'm my defense, please note the posting time and then please see this thread about early bed times and see my post (#4) about when my brain starts turning mushy. ;) :lol: I really shouldn't post anything nearly as long as the above in the evening!

[Lizzie in Ma]

I have an Aussie Shepherd, not small per se, but I have always been able to pick her up to put her in the car and such.  She's a fantastic traveling companion, has always done well in boats, tents, cars, etc.  Easy going, not a roamer, always wants to be with her people.  I understand there is a miniature version of the breed too, but I can't vouch for their temperament.

[catz]

We had a miniature poodle when I was a kid. That dog went everywhere with us. Camping, boating, etc. it was very tolerant and mellow and a people dog for sure.

Edited May 8, 2016 by WoolySocks

[Bluegoat]

I suggested a Havanese above, which is what my parents have now.

 

But thinking about it, if I were to buy a purebred small dog, I would think about a Border Terrier.  I like terrier personalities a lot, but they are a little more laid back than some of them are.  And pretty easy to take care of their coats.

 

With spaniels, one of the things I've not tended to like is that many seem to get smelly.  But that may just be the ones I've met - I don't know a lot of them.

[Ausmumof3]

Beagles aren't great with reliable recall and are great at escaping and getting into things so although they are confident and friendly they wouldn't be so easy as travel companions.

 

I have no personal experience but what are corgis like? They seem confident, are in the right size and the short hair would be a bonus with sailing etc. maybe they have dominance snapping issues or am I mixing them with something else.

Edited May 8, 2016 by Ausmumof3

[Bluegoat]

Corgis aretraditionally heelers and tend to be nippy.

[Ausmumof3]

Corgis aretraditionally heelers and tend to be nippy.

Not ideal then.

 

Hmmm maybe someone needs to breed a pocket lab line.

[Daria]

If I was looking for a small, sweet, healthy dog, I'd look at the Havenese like someone else mentioned, and the Coton de Tulear. I think they are both expensive though.

Coton du Tulears are from Madagascar, and were bred to keep pirate ships free of vermin, or so I have been told. I know nothing of their personality or suitability, but maybe motion sickness would be less of an issue.

[Ausmumof3]

A couple of families I've known have had Maltese terrier mixes and they seem to be great friendly companion dogs that are pretty adaptable. They are definitely friendly though they can be a little yappy

[TheApprentice]

I'm going to suggest Cavalier King Charles as well. We have 2 and they are sturdy enough to play with my three boys without me worrying about them getting hurt. They are also the biggest of the toy breed. They are friendly, easy to train and don't have a tendency to bark much.

 

But also, any toy breed mixed with a poodle would probably work as well.

 

I would not suggest any herding breed, ie. Corgi. They can be territorial and "herd" your kids. Also, there tolerance  level is low.

[Lady Florida.]

 

 

I would not suggest any herding breed, ie. Corgi. They can be territorial and "herd" your kids. Also, there tolerance  level is low.

 

Plus herding dogs need a LOT of exercise.

[Guest]

I don't have much advice because small breeds are not my forte, but after reading some of the suggestions, I would highly discourage a terrier or australian shepherd. We have both and they are way too active.

[wonderchica]

Back to describe my mini poodle. I think her temperament is pretty typical of poodles, from what I've read. She's very smart, very loyal, and loves her people. She's yet to meet a species she doesn't love, in fact. Good with kids, very friendly with everyone she meets. She is happy running a couple miles with me or napping on the couch. She does walk or run at least 30 minutes a day. She likes going places but is kinda whiny in the car (wants to get there I think). I've heard they like to swim but we haven't tried that. She's been pretty easy to train.

[SeaConquest]

I just want to thank everyone for your input and experience. This thread has been enormously helpful in clarifying the right breed for us. I have contacted two reputable So Cal Cav breeders that have puppies for sale, and am asking all the hard questions about health issues. I will keep you updated on how things go. Hopefully, puppy pics to follow! :)

[zimom]

I hope this is not out of line, but you mentioned dog versus dogs.  First, please start with just one dog.  You want the dog to bond with you, not the other dog.  Second, you can only fly one emotional support animal, to my understanding, not two.  Two service dogs can be approved, but that is because they can be performing two difference services (such as a diabetic alert dog and a mobility dog).   As you know, a service dog is not the same as an emotional support dog.   

 

[livetoread]

Did you see this about Cavs and heart problems? Those stats are very sobering. Even good breeders aren't escaping. They said basically 10% have MVD at age one and the rate increases about 10% a year to basically 100% at age ten of those who have survived. A dog battling congestive heart failure is going to have a hard time doing a lot of traveling I would think.

 

http://cavalierhealth.org/mitral_valve_disease.htm#What_It_Is

[SeaConquest]

Did you see this about Cavs and heart problems? Those stats are very sobering. Even good breeders aren't escaping. They said basically 10% have MVD at age one and the rate increases about 10% a year to basically 100% at age ten of those who have survived. A dog battling congestive heart failure is going to have a hard time doing a lot of traveling I would think.

 

http://cavalierhealth.org/mitral_valve_disease.htm#What_It_Is

 

Yes, I did, which is why I am researching breeders and the lines of their dogs very carefully. My second cocker had a murmur for many years, lived to 14, and died of cancer. We really never know. Unless we are ready to give up on the breed altogether, the only thing that we can really do is try to screen. I also hope that veterinary science continues to progress in helping these animals.  

[Katy]

I don't recommend a spaniel of any kind.  They frequently bite small children, and are very likely to bond with only one adult member of the family and be aggressive toward everyone else. They are the second most common dog I've heard friends give away for biting a child, the first being chihuahuas.

 

Poodles or poodle mixes would be smart, sweet, hypo-allergenic and obedient water dogs.  A small one would probably be perfect for you - calming, intelligent, fantastic with kids, love water and travel.

 

Westies are a little stubborn, but if you crate and tether train them, they are great dogs.  Westie-Poodle mixes (westipoos) are my favorite kind of dog, but beware leaving them uncrated when you leave - they will inevitably eat something they shouldn't (like a hairbrush), and get bloody diarrhea.

 

Keeshonds are wonderful dogs.  A little dumb maybe, but great with kids.  When we had one I don't think he was ever interested in water though. People always asked if he was a puppy german shepherd.  He barked a ton, especially at squirrels.  That dog loved to bark.

 

Norfolk, Norwich, or Cairn Terriers are all only slightly larger than Yorkies but either are less strong-willed or are easier to train than some other terriers, and they are all 3 fantastic with kids.  I don't know how they are on boats though.  Any of those crossed with a poodle might be perfect for you.

 

 

 

 

[4ofus]

Someone mentioned Corgi's ~ I mentioned it upthread, but for the newcomers :) ~ I would not recommend a Corgi. The herding tendency in them is super strong & they are intelligent, but not easy dogs to have. She is adorable, so other people gravitate toward her...not a good thing. Don't make eye contact! Ha!!

[Shelly in IL]

My little cav has a murmur. She's now 9 and still active. Something to consider re: poodles and cavs. Cavs are awful shedders. And I mean awful. Sweep one day and have tumbleweed the next. If that kind of thing bothers you - it does me- that's not the dog for you. She is the sweetest thing in the planet which is the only way I stand the hair!

[Verity]

I have had good experiences with buying from local breeders and also from rescues. We currently have three dogs (my mom lives with us and has one dog then kinda took over one I got for myself). She has a Peekapoo (pekingese-poodle) and we have a Shihpoo, about two years ago we met with someone from our church who had a family health tragedy and needed to find a new home for their Peekachoo (pekingese-shih tzu supposedly) and he's been my favorite dog in a long time. Very quiet, rarely barks, good energy, but restful in the home. He likes every one in the house but pekingese are known to be one person dogs, he has bonded primarily with me and is my little anti-anxiety, feel good baby. For a lap dog I would wish him to be a little lighter on his feet (he weighs around 18lbs but has big, heavy feet) but I understand that the previous owners also had his sister who was only about 5lbs. With mixed breeds especially those features can be a tossup. 

Good luck with whatever you decide!

[Ausmumof3]

I don't recommend a spaniel of any kind. They frequently bite small children, and are very likely to bond with only one adult member of the family and be aggressive toward everyone else. They are the second most common dog I've heard friends give away for biting a child, the first being chihuahuas.

 

Poodles or poodle mixes would be smart, sweet, hypo-allergenic and obedient water dogs. A small one would probably be perfect for you - calming, intelligent, fantastic with kids, love water and travel.

 

Westies are a little stubborn, but if you crate and tether train them, they are great dogs. Westie-Poodle mixes (westipoos) are my favorite kind of dog, but beware leaving them uncrated when you leave - they will inevitably eat something they shouldn't (like a hairbrush), and get bloody diarrhea.

 

Keeshonds are wonderful dogs. A little dumb maybe, but great with kids. When we had one I don't think he was ever interested in water though. People always asked if he was a puppy german shepherd. He barked a ton, especially at squirrels. That dog loved to bark.

 

Norfolk, Norwich, or Cairn Terriers are all only slightly larger than Yorkies but either are less strong-willed or are easier to train than some other terriers, and they are all 3 fantastic with kids. I don't know how they are on boats though. Any of those crossed with a poodle might be perfect for you.

Keeshonds I knew wouldn't have been great to fly with as they were obsessive barkers.

[ktgrok]

The more I think about it, the more I think a poodle would be a great choice. They are good in water, you can keep them trimmed short, no shedding all over the darned boat, etc. Just do NOT go for a "teacup" one. The smallest ones have WAY more dental and mental health issues. Get a decent sized toy, or a miniature. Plus, the teacup ones are agains the breed standard, so anyone breeding those is showing themselves to be out for money, not improving the breed. 

[ktgrok]

Also, you can groom the poodle so it doesn't look so foo foo

Edited May 8, 2016 by ktgrok

[zimom]

I have another question, and again, I'm not trying to be out of line.  You mentioned wanting a smaller dog since you would have to be lifting them in and out of the sailboat/dingy.   Forgive me since I don't know anything about this lifestyle.   My daughter's service dog is a lab.   And yes, #1 you are going to have shedding :)    (although 5 minutes of grooming every day does help this btw)  But her dog goes on the lake/boat with us frequently and just jumps/hops on the boat without a problem.   Am I missing something that the dog needs to be lifted?   Is the fact that the dog is small why it needs to be lifted or if it was something like a lab then it could jump itself?    And when we fly, she just curls up at our feet very small.   

 

Of course, labs could be great for what you are looking for but you need to find an outstanding breeder.  

[wonderchica]

My poodle loves to be outside, but she is a little heat sensitive. We live in the South though. I think she wouldn't be bothered if the humidity was less. We just cut back on exercise a bit in the summer.

[SeaConquest]

I have another question, and again, I'm not trying to be out of line.  You mentioned wanting a smaller dog since you would have to be lifting them in and out of the sailboat/dingy.   Forgive me since I don't know anything about this lifestyle.   My daughter's service dog is a lab.   And yes, #1 you are going to have shedding :)    (although 5 minutes of grooming every day does help this btw)  But her dog goes on the lake/boat with us frequently and just jumps/hops on the boat without a problem.   Am I missing something that the dog needs to be lifted?   Is the fact that the dog is small why it needs to be lifted or if it was something like a lab then it could jump itself?    And when we fly, she just curls up at our feet very small.   

 

Of course, labs could be great for what you are looking for but you need to find an outstanding breeder.  

 

You are right that it wouldn't be an issue if we had a powerboat, which generally have swim platforms on the back. But, we have a sailboat with a very steep ladder down to the living quarters (a good five foot ladder). My very athletic cocker used to jump down into the living area, and I was always afraid that he was going to break his back. Also, our boat is an older one, and it doesn't have a swim platform in the back. We have a very steep ladder on the side of our boat that we use to get on and off the dinghy when we are not at a marina.

 

This isn't our boat, but is the same model, so will give you a visual of what I am talking about.

 

Down to the living quarters (imagine a cocker flying from above):

 

http://photos.mostsailboats.org/1987/m/1987-Morgan-41-Morgan-Classic_4370_2.jpg

 

The ladder is something like this, except ours hangs off the side instead of the back:

 

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-MA824PtLzR0/U4zvU0yepzI/AAAAAAAAD1U/qSbAeGa3eJ4/s1600/Phase+1+-+out+of+water+1.jpg

 

And you have to imagine that the boat and dinghy are both moving in the ocean, so it is rocky. Easy to drop dogs and babies!

 

I have spoken to two breeders so far. One dog I ruled out because he has dental issues (but was still asking $2,000!), the other we are meeting with next weekend -- she has one female and one male available. So, we will see.

 

I do like poodles, and think one would be a good fit, but my DH just can't get past the foo foo factor. He also really likes spaniels.

Edited May 9, 2016 by SeaConquest

[SeaConquest]

I have had good experiences with buying from local breeders and also from rescues. We currently have three dogs (my mom lives with us and has one dog then kinda took over one I got for myself). She has a Peekapoo (pekingese-poodle) and we have a Shihpoo, about two years ago we met with someone from our church who had a family health tragedy and needed to find a new home for their Peekachoo (pekingese-shih tzu supposedly) and he's been my favorite dog in a long time. Very quiet, rarely barks, good energy, but restful in the home. He likes every one in the house but pekingese are known to be one person dogs, he has bonded primarily with me and is my little anti-anxiety, feel good baby. For a lap dog I would wish him to be a little lighter on his feet (he weighs around 18lbs but has big, heavy feet) but I understand that the previous owners also had his sister who was only about 5lbs. With mixed breeds especially those features can be a tossup. 

Good luck with whatever you decide!

 

Please don't tell my Pokemon-obsessed son that there is a dog breed called Peekachoo. ;)

 

The kids want to name the puppy, Thunder, which I thought was hilariously funny for a sweet little Cav. 

 

[ktgrok]

Has your husband seen what a poodle looks like when not groomed traditionally? They can look like little bears, adorable, but less foo foo. 

coffee_poodle04.jpg_w450.jpg

[Katy]

Most people I know with poodles keep them in a puppy cut.

[Shelly in IL]

I've got a standard poodle. They're hunting dogs. I affectionately call her my curly coated retriever. (Although I do keep her with bracelets and long ears and a poofy tail)

[zimom]

You are right that it wouldn't be an issue if we had a powerboat, which generally have swim platforms on the back. But, we have a sailboat with a very steep ladder down to the living quarters (a good five foot ladder). My very athletic cocker used to jump down into the living area, and I was always afraid that he was going to break his back. Also, our boat is an older one, and it doesn't have a swim platform in the back. We have a very steep ladder on the side of our boat that we use to get on and off the dinghy when we are not at a marina.

 

This isn't our boat, but is the same model, so will give you a visual of what I am talking about.

 

Down to the living quarters (imagine a cocker flying from above):

 

http://photos.mostsailboats.org/1987/m/1987-Morgan-41-Morgan-Classic_4370_2.jpg

 

The ladder is something like this, except ours hangs off the side instead of the back:

 

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-MA824PtLzR0/U4zvU0yepzI/AAAAAAAAD1U/qSbAeGa3eJ4/s1600/Phase+1+-+out+of+water+1.jpg

 

And you have to imagine that the boat and dinghy are both moving in the ocean, so it is rocky. Easy to drop dogs and babies!

 

 

 

Thanks for the clarification, that really does help.   We couldn't ask for a more perfect dog for our lifestyle, and she wasn't matched to my daughter because they both love to swim and spend time on the lake (that was just a side bonus!), but our lab actually could easily go up the stairs in the boat you pictured, and though not as easily, go up stairs on the back of our boat that were just an inch wide.  The ones in your picture are several inches wide, so she would have no problem with those.   However, I know our dog is not necessarily the norm.   

 

Good luck in your decision.  My daughter's dog is 8, service dogs usually work until about age 10.   It is something I am already struggling with.