What do I do with this boy???

[Moxie]

DS is 15, very smart, ASD, really good kid. He does not like to break rules. He still gets upset about a time 5 years ago when he saw a boy open a package in WalMart because the boy could have been stealing.

 

Except!! We have a rule about no screens in the bedrooms. DS has been caught many times taking his phone in his room in the middle of the night (he gets up after we go to bed and gets it). He doesn't do anything inappropriate, just plays games and watches stupid YT videos. So, we keep his phone in our room at night. Now he has started taking his brother's DS in his room.

 

He is in a vicious cycle of not sleeping well, falling asleep as soon as he gets home from school, which leads to not falling asleep at night, etc.

 

I'm just floored that he continues to break this rule! He cried this morning when I told him how upset I was.

 

Collecting all the screens and keeping them in our room isn't a great option because there are so many screens in this house and I wouldn't put it past him to sneak them out of our room.

 

What says the Hive? This is really a problem.

[MedicMom]

Is there a way to compromise? My ASD child complains often that his "brain won't shut off" especially at night. He is only 5 but very verbal, and we've found that screens help him shut his brain off. Also he has been taking melatonin which has helped greatly.

[Chris in VA]

Sorry it's so hard.

 

I guess you are seeing that when it comes to teens, parenting by control is pretty hard. It would be very difficult, as you say, to monitor all screens all the time. I think you need to get him invested in the problem, but the ASD may be a complicating factor that my advice may not help. (My son has ASD, too, but as we all know, it's so individual.)

 

So--options--

 

1. Take away the screens.

 

2.  Punish with consequences so severe he won't want to risk the misbehavior

 

3. Let him deal with the vicious cycle.

 

4. Concentrate more on the underlying problem of having lost your trust, instead of the physical problem of being addicted to screens

 

5. Charge him in his currency every time he violates the rule.

 

6. Have him draw up new rules with you and sign a contract, also with consequences he helps choose.

 

Some of the above are parenting by control, some are parenting by relationship, some are both.

[Guest]

Is there a way to compromise? My ASD child complains often that his "brain won't shut off" especially at night. He is only 5 but very verbal, and we've found that screens help him shut his brain off. Also he has been taking melatonin which has helped greatly.

Are you taking the melatonin under a doctor's order? This boy has always had sleep issues. He wet the bed until he was 10 because he was such a heavy sleeper. Now, he wakes up in the middle of the night (or never falls asleep, I'm not sure) and plays on screens or wanders the house.

[creekland]

Have a talk with him about your concerns - why the no screen rule is there, etc.

 

Ask him his thoughts about it all.

 

If both of you still agree that it should be a rule, ask him how the two of you should go about enforcing it - what rewards/punishments/plans.

 

You may decide to compromise and not make it a 100% rule (weekend nights ok?).

 

At 15, even ASD, kids need to start working toward joint control of their lives - not just parent control IMO.  It works better too.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

When he uses the DS and other devices, is he accessing the internet? If so, you could kill the wifi before bed, and that may reduce interest.

 

Maybe give him a list of allowed options; reading a book, drawing, etc. 

 

No naps after school! Maybe get his vitamin D checked. My aspie teen had significant sleeping problems. When her low D was supplemented, she naturally fell into a decent sleeping pattern. She also uses a noise machine and likes the white noise setting. 

[Valley Girl]

That's got to be so frustrating. Your DS is older than mine, but we struggle with sleep issues here, too (ADHD). And I can see us facing a similar challenge to what you're dealing with down the line, so I'm taking notes on what everyone is suggesting.

 

If the sleep issue were solved, would that resolve the sneaking, or would it just manifest itself elsewhere? If you think it would solve it, maybe that needs to be the focus for now? (Not that you haven't already tried 1,001 different things to do just that.)

 

In my DS's case, he says melatonin doesn't help. We shut off screens, use white noise, do as many non-drug strategies as I can think of, but DS keeps saying he's not sleeping and that his brain doesn't shut down (same thing Medic Mom mentioned). The doctor recently prescribed a low-dose antidepressant to help him sleep to be used if we want. I really don't want to add it to the meds he already takes because I don't think it will fix the underlying problem and can create issues of its own. But that's me.

 

It doesn't help that DS resists my efforts to get him to slow things down before bed. I just had to have a talk with him about how we can't help him if he won't participate in the solution. Does your DS get that he's not helping himself by turning to the screens? Mine would have trouble seeing that.

[laundrycrisis]

He may be having trouble staying asleep, and needs something to tune his mind to when he wakes up in the night.  I wake up in the middle of the night, wide awake.  It's hard to get sleepy again.  Reading or some low-action game is what I use to get back to sleep.   Maybe you could write down a plan for him to follow when he wakes up in the middle of the night.  Maybe get some warm milk, use the bathroom, flip your pillow over and have a book all set up with a bookmark ready to go.  Or something like a sudoku/word find/crossword book if you don't want him using electronic games.  

[Seasider]

Is he a reader? Can you compromise with allowing him to read instead? (Whatever happened to staying up all night with a can't-put-down book, anyway?)

 

Is he communicating with someone at night - a girlfriend perhaps? I would also suggest disconnecting the wifi past a certain time at night.

[SparklyUnicorn]

What about offering something other than screens?  Books, comic books, magazines, etc.?   I think the screens are problematic because I've heard that the lighting on them interferes with some sort of what not in our brains that screws up our sleeping patterns.  But then I do get the need to find something to do to wind down. 

[bettyandbob]

My neighbor locked keyboards and other things in the car. I used to shut off our internet access nightly.

[SparklyUnicorn]

My neighbor locked keyboards and other things in the car. I used to shut off our internet access nightly.

 

LOL

 

Locking the stuff up seems like a good idea, but around here the car would be the worst place to do that.  I've had my car rummaged through and broken into a zillion times.

[catz]

I allow both my kids to read (or write/draw - my dd does that) all night if they want or turn on a light and read or write if they wake up.  But no electronics in the room.  There is no electronics for a week if they are caught with electronics in bedroom at night.  We don't generally do electronics in bedrooms at all.  That goes for my 15 year old too.  Honestly, that kid is a train wreck if he doesn't get enough sleep.  We've been doing it this way for a while and only once in the past year has either of my kids been caught with electronics in the bedroom (and it was younger dd last time). 

[Jean in Newcastle]

If you do go the melatonin route, first check (google) to make sure that it won't interfere with the medications he's on.  If it's ok, then make sure that you get the extended release kind - it is specifically made for people who wake up later in the night.

 

Honestly, I don't think that this should be approached from the standpoint of "rule breaking".  It's more of a medical issue.  He can't get the uninterrupted sleep that he needs.  I had ds do a sleep study.  In his case, the sleep study showed no problems but it was a valuable thing to rule out.  The sleep specialist told us that many people with ADD and ASD have undiagnosed sleep problems that make things worse.  Because sleep problems were ruled out in our case, we went with magnesium and melatonin at night. 

[DawnM]

It just couldn't come from us.  His therapist had to explain blue light sleep deprivation stuff to him. 

 

He did it for a while, but went back to screens.  We homeschool and he doesn't have to get up early.  We just decided not to fight it.  

 

Our neuro-typical kids don't do the screens at night but our ASD child was staying up staring at the ceiling for hours and hours without it.  

 

Judge away, but we decided it wasn't worth the battle.

Edited March 12, 2016 by DawnM

[Lecka]

My kids are much younger, but we recently put a lock on a small suitcase.

 

I also had recommended to me a getting a small foot locker type of thing.

 

We just keep it in our bedroom closet.

 

It is working well for our needs, but we don't get in it very often, either, only 1-2 times a week.

 

We don't use it for screens, but if you wanted to lock things up at night, it is a pretty simple system for us.

Edited March 11, 2016 by Lecka

[SparklyUnicorn]

It just couldn't come from us.  His therapist had to explain blue light sleep deprivation stuff to him. 

 

He did it for a while, but went back to screens.  We homeschool and he doesn't have to get up early.  We just decided no to fight it.  

 

Our near-typical kids don't do the screens at night but our ASD child was staying up staring at the ceiling for hours and hours without it.  

 

Judge away, but we decided it wasn't worth the battle.

 

Well I'm right there with you.  I would probably get on my kids if they had to get up early and it was interfering with school.  That is not the case though.

 

 

[Lecka]

If he is going to change in the next 2-3 years to something that will need morning hours, I think I would start working on it, though.

 

My cousin had this some, and it was really hard for him, and it took time to figure out what would work well for him and what he could do on his own.

 

If this is a kid moving out of the house in 2-3 years, I would try not to have him leave without an effective way for him to do things differently if/when he needs that to meet his goals of work or education (or whatever).

 

But with my cousin he also didn't have a 24-hour cycle where he could just say "okay, I work at night" or "okay, I take afternoon classes."

 

He would be tired at different times in the day over the course of a month, to some extent.

 

It would also be limiting for him I think.

 

But if it is something where kids CAN do better when they are 18 and doing their own thing, but we're not motivate before, this was not my cousin's situation. He needed help to change it. I think he did take medication a while to get in a better pattern.

[Lecka]

This also may be way too intense of a suggestion, but I think my cousin had some anxiety and screens helped to alleviate some anxiety. I think that was involved with his sleep issue.

 

So when I say he took medication, I think it may have been anxiety medication.

 

I am vague on it.

 

My cousin is someone who has Aspergers, and then gone on to have some co-morbid conditions, so I have that perspective, bc he is someone where he does take medication as an adult.

[NorthwestMom]

DS is 15, very smart, ASD, really good kid. He does not like to break rules. He still gets upset about a time 5 years ago when he saw a boy open a package in WalMart because the boy could have been stealing.

 

Except!! We have a rule about no screens in the bedrooms. DS has been caught many times taking his phone in his room in the middle of the night (he gets up after we go to bed and gets it). He doesn't do anything inappropriate, just plays games and watches stupid YT videos. So, we keep his phone in our room at night. Now he has started taking his brother's DS in his room.

 

He is in a vicious cycle of not sleeping well, falling asleep as soon as he gets home from school, which leads to not falling asleep at night, etc.

 

I'm just floored that he continues to break this rule! He cried this morning when I told him how upset I was.

 

Collecting all the screens and keeping them in our room isn't a great option because there are so many screens in this house and I wouldn't put it past him to sneak them out of our room.

 

What says the Hive? This is really a problem.

 

I would start subtly changing his sleep routine by changing what he does after school so he cannot nap. A highly physical outdoor activity would be ideal. Then he may be more tired at night and able to sleep through. More tips for establishing good sleep hygiene: https://sleepfoundation.org/ask-the-expert/sleep-hygiene

 

We also had a period where we had to put the wifi on a timer and had our DS's phone data turned off at night or he could not resist it, but we only needed to do it for a month or two and he got with the program. 15 is a hard age for boys to consistently make good choices for themselves. LOL.

 

 

 

[bettyandbob]

I would start subtly changing his sleep routine by changing what he does after school so he cannot nap. A highly physical outdoor activity would be ideal. Then he may be more tired at night and able to sleep through. More tips for establishing good sleep hygiene: https://sleepfoundation.org/ask-the-expert/sleep-hygiene

 

We also had a period where we had to put the wifi on a timer and had our DS's phone data turned off at night or he could not resist it, but we only needed to do it for a month or two and he got with the program. 15 is a hard age for boys to consistently make good choices for themselves. LOL.

 

 

 

Physical activity is important and this idea is a good one. It's a little harder on you because it requires your input and monitoring when you thought you'd be backing off. Probably input at a time of day when you do other stuff.

[Guest]

Physical activity is important and this idea is a good one. It's a little harder on you because it requires your input and monitoring when you thought you'd be backing off. Probably input at a time of day when you do other stuff.

The problem is that I'm not home right after school. By the time I get home, he has been asleep for hours.

[MomatHWTK]

My ASD/anxiety/ADHD kid can only sleep for a few hours at a time. I would probably just try to roll with it. Rules are great, but not if they don't fit the situation. 

[Guest]

My ASD/anxiety/ADHD kid can only sleep for a few hours at a time. I would probably just try to roll with it. Rules are great, but not if they don't fit the situation.

But, as tired as he is when he gets home, I'm sure he is not 100% at school.

[gardenmom5]

insomnia is common in aspies.  it seems to be related to a melatonin deficiency.

 

have you tried melatonin for him?  it tends to be more helpful for those on the spectrum/related with sleep problems more so than just general insomnia.

dudeling refused to ever take a supplement and would rather starve if he got wind I was trying to sneak something into him.  his ND and I threatened him (you will take this or we'll give it in a shot.) to try melatonin.   the next night - he asked for it.  If I forgot to give it to him - he reminded me.  if he went to bed, and had trouble sleeping - he'd come and ask for some.  he realized immediately how much better he *felt* if he slept at night.

I'm probably also an aspie - and had that insomnia when I was younger.  even now - if I get woken up - I'm awake and it's hours before I can go back to sleep.   it was pretty darn boring being awake at night when I was a kid/teen.  and I couldn't function very well the next day either.

[MedicMom]

Yes, the melatonin was suggested by the doctor for my DS. There is an increasing body of evidence that people on the spectrum have a melatonin deficiency.

 

We do allow screens a little more than many people. They do seem to help him shut his mind down, and that is what he needs right now.

[creekland]

The problem is that I'm not home right after school. By the time I get home, he has been asleep for hours.

 

This needs to be included in your discussion.

 

It has to be at a good time - when both of you are feeling good.  It needs to be kept normal on your end.  He might get antsy and combative, but you have to stay solid and open to what he is saying - not dismissive.

 

You need to include the whole issue - sleeping too much during the day affecting the night, rule breaking, etc.

 

You need to phrase it so that he understands what the goal is - and even has input into what the goal is.

 

He needs to come up with solutions to try, including rewards for getting things right and possibly punishments for not.

 

The best effort will be a team effort, so it at all possible, you have to step down from being MOM - "I said it, this is it!" and go with mom - "I'm concerned about you/your health and we need to come up with something that works for both of us."

 

Kids not used to this approach are often stymied by it a little, but once given the chance - even ASD students - almost all love it.  It helps them feel grown up.  It helps them realize they're in control of their lives.  It helps them know their views matter.

 

As I said before, you might need to be able to compromise a little.  Have an open mind.  Be willing to try what he suggests if he comes up with anything.  Offer multiple suggestions.  After a couple of weeks of trying Plan A, it's ok to come back together, reassess, and come up with Plan B.  It can be a slower process than "I said it - just do it - or else!"  But it's a more thorough process and creates a happier situation overall - esp when it works.

 

I use it fairly often - esp when long term subbing, but even if just for a week - to get kids doing homework even if they don't generally.  Ditto that with any other behavior that they know needs changing.

 

A big key on the parent's end is staying solid and not getting into a tizzy because they don't see/understand the obvious.  They don't.  That's life.  That's what you're working to fix. They often have to process it themselves to begin to see it that way.  Trying to force it can turn things into a battle or game.

 

I'll admit I got on the computer at 3am this morning when I couldn't sleep too... and my body always gets me up early, even when I go to bed late.  As an adult I need to do what I can to work around what my body does.  His issue isn't unusual.  He just needs to come up with what will work for him to accomplish his goals.  (For me, I try to go to bed early when not with company.  If I don't, I'll have to nap during the day too and that will make night shorter.)

[redsquirrel]

Is it that he can't sleep, or is it that he is waking himself up in order to access the games?

 

I have trouble sleeping, so I can empathize with that. And puberty wreaks havoc with sleep cycles, making everything worse.

 

If you think he is having trouble sleeping, then you need to help him with good sleep habits. lying in bed not sleeping is something people with sleep problems are supposed to avoid. My own doctor says after 15 mins get out of bed and go sit on the couch and read or whatever and then try going back to bed in half an hour.  I can't say I do it, but I know I should. Bed is not for reading or playing games because it makes it more difficult to get to sleep. 

 

So, if the problem is no sleep in the bedroom, what about allowing him to get up and sit on the couch to use the screen for 15 mins or 30 mins and then he has to go back to bed and try to go to sleep.  That way he is not breaking a rule, but isn't setting himself up for more sleep issues later on.

 

If that isn't acceptable to you, then help him come up with a plan for when he can't sleep. He needs some coping mechanisms for sleepless nights.  I personally spend a lot of that late night time playing stupid games on my phone because I don't want to get to involved in  a book, and I'm too tired to do much else. It does seem to help me zone out enough to finally get to sleep,

 

If you are concerned about blue lights in screens making more problems with his sleep, you can try a pair of yellow glasses after 6pm or so. My son really likes them. I didn't noticed any improvement with them.

[fairfarmhand]

BTW, don't be surprised if he thinks that it's no big deal that he's sleeping when the rest of the family is having their family time, and it should be perfectly acceptable to you for him to spend time in the middle of the night with electronics while missing out on what makes a family a family. But this needs to be couched in terms of "Every member of this family is important, and we need you present, even if it;s just to chat while we're making dinner."

 

My oldest at times has seemed puzzled that we value her presence even when there's nothing "happening" But the marrow of family life is formed when people are just hanging out, chatting, commenting about one another's day and doing just unplanned "stuff"." My dd didn't get for a long time that those unplanned casual moments are what build intimacy and closeness in a family. She thought that her presence wasn't important if nothing was planned. But it is/was.

[Lori D.]

Continuous aerobic physical exertion for at least 40 minutes a day might help. It throws off stress and anxiety, releases endorphins, and physically tires the body to be more receptive to sleep. The times that DS#2 (mild ADD symptoms, always VERY hard time falling asleep at night) was swimming laps regularly, or playing tennis/jogging, at least 40 minutes a day definitely helped.

 

Lap swimming, where I really push my limit and swim hard for 30-45 minutes really helps me deal with anxiety and stress and be more relaxed for the rest of the day and for falling asleep at night.

 

BEST of luck in finding what helps your DS!! Warmest regards, Lori D.

[OnMyOwn]

I use the parental control settings for our Verizon router to turn off all teen devices at 10:00 p.m. I got tired of trying to monitor screens at night and this was the easiest way to do it.

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

Moxie, will he read if it's an option? I have a Kindle Paperwhite, and I've found that if I'm up in the middle of the night and read with my Paperwhite at a very low light setting, it doesn't keep me up for hours, whereas getting on my phone or my laptop does. Would he be open to the idea of reading on a Paperwhite instead? The light from a Paperwhite is not the kind that will stimulate much brain activity. It also doesn't allow access to the Internet or apps or whatever (well, it kind of does, but it's way more trouble than it's worth and crashes the thing every time, so I don't think that will be an attraction for him). Maybe he'd agree to read that way instead, thereby keeping the rest of the room dark and peaceful and not stimulating his brain via the blue light?

[Tiramisu]

I use the parental control settings for our Verizon router to turn off all teen devices at 10:00 p.m. I got tired of trying to monitor screens at night and this was the easiest way to do it.

 

We used this method, too, for the longest time, and I absolutely loved it. Just set the schedule, and we could do age appropriate settings for each kid. Then one dear child figured out if she renamed her device, she could bypass the parental controls. Now we have to go under basic security and turn off the wifi at night for everyone at the same time. 

 

Another method is to change the password on the same Verizon wireless security page if someone needs to have online access at night, like my college age dc who occasionally needs to stay up and get work done during breaks. Only the people with the new password will be able to go online with this method.

[heartlikealion]

I'd think of it like an addiction. I'd compare it to being on a diet and giving into temptation because you have access to food X under your roof.

 

When I was a teen I'd turn on the noisy modem (tried to muffle the dial up tone with my hand) to get online after my parents were asleep. Maybe he has a friend he chats with online?

 

What is the punishment for breaking the rule? Can some of the items be taken away for several days at a time and placed at a relative's home or somewhere completely out of reach?

[Tsuga]

Screens are addictive and I believe that his behavior sounds like addiction behavior. I would consider locking all screens at night. If you find him trying to break the lock at night--that's beyond discipline, that's addiction. If he doesn't, help him find substitute behaviors.

 

He will be tired by changing his sleep routine early on. Let that go. It will work out in the long run.

 

Also, FairFarmhand is right.

[MomatHWTK]

I don't think the same concepts of addiction and need apply in situations where an individual has a diagnosed neurological anomaly. IMO following NT advice for a non-NT child IMO can have disastrous results. 

 

Are cold turkey withdrawal and punitive measures really the standard of care for addiction anyway?

Edited March 12, 2016 by MomatHWTK

[Chris in VA]

I don't think the same concepts of addiction and need apply in situations where an individual has a diagnosed neurological anomaly. IMO following NT advice for a non-NT child IMO can have disastrous results. 

 

Are cold turkey withdrawal and punitive measures really the standard of care for addiction anyway?

 

Non-NT children can still become addicts. I do agree that the diagnosis should be considered, though.

Cold-turkey can absolutely be necessary in addiction.

 

IDK if OP's son is addicted, though.

[brett_ashley]

In addition to a good amount of exercise I would make sure he is getting at least 10 minutes of sunlight exposure a day. The blue lights can really mess with your circadian rhythm

[kroe1]

If he is in the dark watching small screens, I would worry about future vision problems. Ask him to shut the door and turn on his bedroom light.

 

Since this is something you cannot police because you are not at home to stop the naps, then no need to keep trying to punish for it. There is no way to make someone sleep more hours than his body needs.

 

I would definitely cut the WiFi at night, however. A 15 year old boy with unlimited access to the Internet while his family sleeps is never a good thing.

[Laurie4b]

WHat is his doctor like? Could you get help there? Sleep issues are a medical problem. The screens may be causing the sleep issues or a result of them. Maybe a sleep study is in order? At his age, hearing from a professional might be more helpful than naggy old mom. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

If he's sleeping right after school then it is easy to understand why he can't sleep later. Can you brainstorm after school activities for him like sports or with other people that would help guide him into a healthier sleep schedule?

 

 

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