Dyslexia and Foreign Language

[Haiku]

For those of you with kids who have dyslexia, how do you handle a high school foreign language? My son has a terrible time with spelling, and his grasp of grammar is poor, as well. I'm still working intensively with him on these things in English ... I can't imagine trying to tackle it in another language.

 

Does ASL count??

[Rosie_0801]

If it doesn't, it ought to. It is a real, proper language after all.

 

:grouphug:

[OnMyOwn]

We're not dealing with dyslexia, but a language based learning disability.  What has worked for us is starting early.  We used the La Clase Divertida program starting in late elementary/middle school and then my son also used Pimsleur in the summers, which is great because it is auditory based.  Then we used Getting Started in Spanish (love!) and I worked through some of So You Really Want to Learn Spanish before signing him up for Sr. Gamache's high school Spanish 1 course in 9th.  Knowing a lot of the vocab and being familiar with the verb endings and some other parts of the language enabled Spanish 1 to go smoothly for him.  Spanish 2 has been a big leap up for him and he's struggled with it a bit.  I thought he'd stop after Spanish 2, but he seems intent on moving on to Spanish 3 and I'm planning on signing him up in the next few weeks.  My ds did have a pretty strong grounding in English grammar before beginning Spanish 1 officially.  We used Saxon Grammar for all the repetition and review and that worked well.  Honestly, repetition and review seems to be key for most subjects.

Edited March 10, 2016 by OnMyOwn

[Matryoshka]

I've heard that some people present as 'less' dyslexic or not at all in different languages.  Spanish and Italian are completely regular phonetically, so present much less of a problem with both decoding and spelling.

 

And Chinese - I've heard the pictoral representation of the words actually uses a different part of the brain to process than phonetic language, so could ironically be a good choice even though it seems 'harder' to most people.

[Corraleno]

ASL counts for many colleges, but possibly not all. Or they might count it for HS credit, but (depending on major) might require 2-4 semesters of a modern spoken language in college. Although I've also heard of dyslexics being excused from the FL requirement with appropriate documentation.

 

However, I will say that when DS was in middle school and I was planning HS, I assumed that he would really struggle with FL as a dyslexic. Now, he is dyseidetic dyslexic, not dysphonetic, so that does make a difference, but at the time I was planning to just work through the simplest Spanish curriculum I could find and hope that tons of repetition for 4 yrs of HS would eventually allow him to at least get through a 2nd semester college class on a Pass/No Pass basis. Which is hilarious in retrospect, since he's now had 2 yrs of Latin and 4 of Greek and self-teaches Old Norse and Turkish!

 

I have actually read that Latin is a good language for dyslexics, because the spelling is absolutely regular and once you understand the grammar it's very logical. Plus there is no pressure to speak it, which can be a nightmare for dyslexics since they tend to be slow verbal processors. 

 

I think what made all the difference for DS was Lukeion's Barbarian Diagrammarian class, which presents grammar in a surprisingly visual/spatial way — lots of color coded charts and diagramming. Many dyslexics are VSL/WtP learners, so learning almost all of English grammar in a way that made it all "fit together" visually and spatially made all the difference in the world to DS. I don't think he would have ever gotten where he is, if we had just worked thorough a bunch of grammar programs that taught piecemeal/incrementally. 

 

All that to say... I wouldn't automatically assume that a dyslexic will be bad at foreign languages. I think choosing the right language, and providing a clear "big picture" understanding of grammar, can make a big difference. I'm so glad that DS did not listen to me when I warned him that Greek would be very very difficult for him and he might want to choose something easier, like Spanish.  :blushing: If he had listened to me, I doubt he would have ever discovered his love of linguistics and languages. 

 

[OnMyOwn]

Yes, I agree with Corraleno about Latin potentially being a good choice.  My ds did a year of Latin and he did very well with it.  Not having to speak it was a huge plus.  We didn't continue on that path, because I was only aware of a local option at the time and if he continued with that class, I felt I would really need to learn it myself as well in order for the class to be successful for him.  That wasn't something I was able to do at that point.  Sometimes I regret not continuing Latin with him, but Spanish has worked out pretty well.

[Haiku]

Yes, I agree with Corraleno about Latin potentially being a good choice.  

 

That's interesting, because just today dd was telling me that her brother would be a disaster in Latin because of the huge amount of grammar necessary. I mean, my son is 13 and still can only reliably identify one part of speech: a noun. He seems to randomly guess whether other words are verbs, adjectives, adverbs, etc., even though he can recite the definitions of all the parts of speech perfectly.

 

I'm getting ready to start Wilson with him. I hope the visual and kinesthetic nature of it will help him. I think that ASL would be great for him because, despite having been diagnosed with dyspraxia as a preschooler, he is actually very good with using his hands (even though he couldn't button his pants or buckle his belt until he was 10 or tie his shoes until he was 11).

[MerryAtHope]

I've heard that some people present as 'less' dyslexic or not at all in different languages.  Spanish and Italian are completely regular phonetically, so present much less of a problem with both decoding and spelling.

 

And Chinese - I've heard the pictoral representation of the words actually uses a different part of the brain to process than phonetic language, so could ironically be a good choice even though it seems 'harder' to most people.

 

I second trying a phonetically regular language or a pictorial one.

 

That's interesting, because just today dd was telling me that her brother would be a disaster in Latin because of the huge amount of grammar necessary. I mean, my son is 13 and still can only reliably identify one part of speech: a noun. He seems to randomly guess whether other words are verbs, adjectives, adverbs, etc., even though he can recite the definitions of all the parts of speech perfectly.

 

I'm getting ready to start Wilson with him. I hope the visual and kinesthetic nature of it will help him. I think that ASL would be great for him because, despite having been diagnosed with dyspraxia as a preschooler, he is actually very good with using his hands (even though he couldn't button his pants or buckle his belt until he was 10 or tie his shoes until he was 11).

 

Latin was one of the things that finally helped me to understand English grammar (I remember asking over and over, "does English have this?") Foreign language is often what can open the door to understanding grammar.

 

I would absolutely try a foreign language with a dyslexic student, but with these thoughts in mind:

 

1, try to go with a language the student has interest in (I was terrified when my oldest wanted to do Japanese, but it turned out to be a really good fit for him).

 

2, let the student work at his or her pace. Don't worry if your student gets through less curriculum than a student who doesn't have learning struggles. Let your student enjoy it and learn what he or she can. If your student has to take foreign language in college, they will likely start over at the beginning anyway (unless they want to try to test out), so consider whatever they do in high school as great exposure to a language they might pursue again later, or simply for the benefit of seeing what it's like to learn a foreign language. 

 

3, look at requirements for schools your student might attend. Most that we looked at wanted a minimum of 2 years in a single language. With that in mind, I didn't do foreign language right away Freshman year for my oldest. I let him adjust to the stiffer demands of high school first, and then we added FL in the next year. He was much more ready the next year. A friend of mine only did it for Junior and Senior years for one of her kids. 

 

HTH some!

[Eliz]

My older daughter is dyslexic.  She's done well with French.  Is Latin necessarily accepted for the foreign language requirement for college admission?  I had heard many colleges require a modern language.

[AliR]

DD13 has a very significant language problem (think single digits for percentiles).  She had no background in foreign languages (other than some tv exposure) as I wrote the idea off totally.

 

I was so very wrong.  She is nearly through the first semester of Spanish 1 for high school and has A+.

 

I don't really know why, but she says it is much easier than English.

 

Perhaps it is worth trying?

[Haiku]

I feel like having him study a really obscure language, because then no one will be able to tell whether he learned it well, anyway. :D ;)

[Rosie_0801]

I feel like having him study a really obscure language, because then no one will be able to tell whether he learned it well, anyway. :D ;)

 

This obscure enough for you? :p

https://www.open.edu.au/courses/arts/charles-darwin-university-yolngu-languages-and-culture-1--aby11-2016

[OnMyOwn]

That's interesting, because just today dd was telling me that her brother would be a disaster in Latin because of the huge amount of grammar necessary. I mean, my son is 13 and still can only reliably identify one part of speech: a noun. He seems to randomly guess whether other words are verbs, adjectives, adverbs, etc., even though he can recite the definitions of all the parts of speech perfectly.

 

I'm getting ready to start Wilson with him. I hope the visual and kinesthetic nature of it will help him. I think that ASL would be great for him because, despite having been diagnosed with dyspraxia as a preschooler, he is actually very good with using his hands (even though he couldn't button his pants or buckle his belt until he was 10 or tie his shoes until he was 11).

Yeah, I guess it just depends. For my son, the speaking part is the hardest. And the way we were learning Latin was so methodical and parts to whole that it just made sense to me. And ASL never would have worked for my son because he has some serious motor planning issues. He can skate and ski like a pro, but he has a lot of trouble with his hands and getting them to do what he wants them to do.

Edited March 11, 2016 by OnMyOwn

[Haiku]

So ... Cathy Duffy claims that after completing book 5 (out of 6) of Latin's Not So Tough that the student has completed the equivalent of a two-year high school Latin course. Either my standards for what I expect of my daughter (currently in Latin II using the Latin Book 1/Book 2 books by Scott and Horn) are way too high or I have hit the jackpot. :w00t: Could this be true??

 

I've looked at the samples, and maybe if we started in 9th grade we could work through those five books over 3-4 years.

[Hilltopmom]

My student is exempt from the foreign language requirement per her IEP. (Although It's not required in our state for homeschoolers anyways)

It's enough work for her to get through her regular subjects, we're not adding another.

 

As far as needing it for college, her disabilities are significant enough that if she goes, it will be CC or a trade school & she can take it at CC if she needs/ wants it.

[Hilltopmom]

Btw- ASL does count at some schools, especially for majors that require it (special Ed, speech therapy, etc)

[Corraleno]

So ... Cathy Duffy claims that after completing book 5 (out of 6) of Latin's Not So Tough that the student has completed the equivalent of a two-year high school Latin course. Either my standards for what I expect of my daughter (currently in Latin II using the Latin Book 1/Book 2 books by Scott and Horn) are way too high or I have hit the jackpot. :w00t: Could this be true??

 

I've looked at the samples, and maybe if we started in 9th grade we could work through those five books over 3-4 years.

 

I think you would definitely need Level 6 to come close to the level of a HS Latin 2 class. Level 6 includes personal pronouns, cardinal & ordinal numbers, infinitives, imperfect & future tenses, passive voice, and other topics that would be covered in a standard Latin 2 class (all of these topics are on the Latin 2 NLE, which tests what an average HS student would have learned around 2/3 of the way through the year). But you could also start out in Level 2 or 3, since the lower levels are designed for young elementary ages.

 

There are a couple of reviews of the program in this thread.

[Haiku]

I guess my standards for my daughter are really high, because we covered most of that stuff in Latin I and have covered the rest of it in the first 1/6 of Latin II. My dd just took the NLE. The syllabus for Latin I didn't seem challenging, but I just figured it wasn't a super challenging exam.

 

I'm glad to know that, at least, and I'll have my son take a look at LNST. I looked at the Book 6 placement test and sample pages and had no problems with them. I can definitely teach it to him.

Edited March 11, 2016 by TaraTheLiberator

[OneStepAtATime]

For the English side of things, are you using something designed specifically for dyslexics?

 

I agree with others, it will depend on the kid and any co-morbid issues as to whether another language would be possible.  Try out one of the phonetically based ones and see how it goes.  If it really becomes overwhelming, see if ASL would be possible.  Not all kids have the motor planning to do ASL.  And as mentioned not all colleges accept it as an option.  

 

FWIW, if you have been accommodating him at home for various things related to his dyslexia you could write up your own IEP using the guidelines on the HSLDA website.  Some colleges will accept that and provide certain accommodations if you also have some sort of official evaluation done within 3 years of applying to a college.  It might get him an exemption for a foreign language requirement, depending on the college.  Some colleges now even accept computer programming as a "foreign language" so that might also be an option if other choices don't work out.

[Corraleno]

I guess my standards for my daughter are really high, because we covered most of that stuff in Latin I and have covered the rest of it in the first 1/6 of Latin II.

 

I'm glad to know that, at least, and I'll have my son take a look at LNST. I looked at the Book 6 placement test and sample pages and had no problems with them. I can definitely teach it to him.

 

All of those topics (and more), with the exception of infinitives, are covered in the first half of Wheelocks, and I think many would be covered in a good Latin I class. But they would most definitely be covered by Latin II, so I was surprised that Cathy Duffy thought Level 5 would be the equivalent of Latin 2. Even a "lighter" course like Oxford or Cambridge would cover more that LNST Level 6 by the end of Latin 2. (Comparing the TOC for LNST to Oxford Latin, I would say it covers most of Oxford 1 and maybe half to 2/3 of Oxford 2.) But then again a lot of schools don't make it all the way through the book, and I think there are some Latin programs that spread Wheelock's over 3 years, so there's a pretty broad range of "light" to "rigorous" in Latin curricula, just like in any other subject. And there's nothing wrong with choosing a lighter program if that's what best suits the student (especially when an LD is involved). 

[Lori D.]

Yes, American Sign Language is accepted as a Foreign Language by most colleges.

 

Our experience with ASL:

DS#2 with stealth dyslexia -- VERY visual-spatial learner and whole-to-parts learner -- and a *horrible* time with spelling and writing did ASL for his Foreign Language. He did 2 semesters as dual enrollment in 12th grade for his 2 credits of high school foreign language. He went on to take several more semesters of ASL, plus courses in Interpretation for the Deaf, as after graduation he went to the community college and found that field interesting. He completed 2 years of the 3 years needed towards an AAS degree in Interpretation for the Deaf, before deciding he did not want to go into that career after all.

 

I think the ASL "clicked" for him because of the visual aspect; the grammar of ASL is very different from that of English, and has aspects that are not contained in English, but he actually did not have problems in grasping those concepts.

 

I will say, that even with ASL, you still don't escape spelling, because any names or special words that do not have signs (and there are a lot!) must be finger-spelled. For our DS, I think that between all of the typing he has done for communicating with online gaming, and then with the ASL fingerspelling, he actually improved in his spelling. I also think the older he got, the more the spelling portion of his brain was finally maturing and kicking in a bit.

 

Our experience with spelling:

DS did not even *begin* to mature with spelling until age 12. After that, it seemed like every year he "clicked" a bit more with it. We did an individualized spelling with him all the way through high school (using Megawords, and combining elements from Stevenson Blue Spelling Manual, Sequential Spelling, The ABCs And All Their Tricks, and a few ideas for kinesthetic learners re: spelling). Also found Andrew Pudewa's "Spelling and the Brain" audio lecture helpful, as well as Carol Barnier's "Toss It" idea helpful.

 

We also did Callirobics for the last 3 years of high school, plus Dianne Craft's "writing 8s" ideas, and added some nutritional supplements (fish oil and 5HTP) to his diet to help with focus and concentration.

 

for Grammar:

We used Winston Basic, plus Mad Libs, Grammar Ad Libs, and Schoolhouse Rock: Grammar for learning parts of speech. I also adapted Winston -- rather than using the cards, I wrote 4 sentences on the whiteboard, and we used colored markers to "parse" each sentence. And, even before we did Winston, I started with Joyce Herzog's little book on Simple Grammar -- that booklet is out of print now, but I think it is now available as this: 6 Weeks to Understanding Grammar -- but the upshot is that she starts with 2 word sentences that are complete sentences (a noun and a verb -- a subject and a predicate), and as the student gets comfortable with that you slowly add a part of speech -- like ADjectives "add on" to the noun. Etc. So, we would start by looking for the "simple sentence" -- the basic subject and predicate in the Winston sentence, and then use arrows and circles etc. to show what was modifying what. I think this was helpful for DS, making the grammar visual, and also very concrete, by using those arrows to connect things… In this past thread I outlined in much more detail how we tweaked Winston to use it visually on the white board and incorporated Joyce Herzog's tips Talk to me about Winston Grammar please.

 

re: Writing

This was a super-tough subject for DS all through the school years. Frankly, he needed a lot of support and scaffolding all the way through high school, and even in his community college courses, he would write a paper, email it to me for editing; I would make comments of what needed to happen; he would make revisions and send it back; I'd do a second round of comments; and he would revise again; and then I'd help him proof-edit the final paper. By the end of his first year of college, he was able to mostly "fly solo" on his papers! :)

 

I think one thing that really helped him was all 4 years of high school we did a weekly, informal, written, timed essay from past SAT prompts that we all did together (both DSs and myself each would write one from the prompt of our choice), and then we would (gently) critique one another. That really got DS thinking more quickly and figuring out what to use as support/examples. His years in YMCA Youth & Gov't also really helped him in organizing his thinking and supporting his arguments -- while it was verbal debate for Youth & Gov't, that thinking skill really carried over into thinking and supporting and structuring his *writing*. So, you might look into participation in some type of Speech and Debate as a help with advancing your DS's writing… Just a thought!

 

 

All of that is just to encourage you that often these student are just extremely delayed in brain development of written LA areas. And, they may never be that great at them. But, they can really surprise you -- I would never have guessed DS would have reached the level he is at. He has always had an extremely advanced vocabulary, and has always been a *great* thinker / analyzer / debater -- he can "think/speak" an essay with great skill! It's just the written aspects that are still difficult for him -- somehow, something "short circuits" when trying to get it from his brain, down his arm, and onto paper...

 

BEST of luck in figuring out how to accomplish your For. Lang. credits and advance in your LA areas while dealing with the dyslexia! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited March 11, 2016 by Lori D.

[Haiku]

Thanks, everyone, for all the information and suggestions. I was talking to dh about this last night and he said, "All he (ds) has to do is pass. He doesn't have to excel" in regards to a foreign language, and of course he's right. DH always sees things more simply than I do!

[Haiku]

Oh, and Lori, it sounds like ds and I are on a very similar path with the LA aspect to what you've described!

[Haiku]

6 Weeks to Understanding Grammar

 

Excellent! This can be purchased for $6 for Kindle.

 

Lori, you really are a treasure. Your posts are so calm and informative, and you always give me a boost of confidence that I can do this. Thank you so, so much for your wisdom and kindness in sharing all that you share.  :001_tt1:

[Lanny]

I have no information for you about Dyslexia and learning a Foreign Language, but I can pass along this encouragement to your student:

(1) When I was under contract to a large aerospace company, I worked with a young man who had Dyslexia. He had an Electronic Engineering degree.  I would sometimes help him with what he wrote, and he helped me with some things.  He has a B.S.E.E.  I cannot imagine the university he attended did not require several years of a Foreign Language in High School, and I am assuming that they did.

(2) I knew a man who was an "Editor" for a computer magazine who has Dyslexia.  (everyone who writes for magazines now seems to have the title Editor).

GL  to your student!

[Lori D.]

Excellent! This can be purchased for $6 for Kindle.

 

Lori, you really are a treasure. Your posts are so calm and informative, and you always give me a boost of confidence that I can do this. Thank you so, so much for your wisdom and kindness in sharing all that you share.  :001_tt1:

 

Oh, so very glad to be of help Tara! :) And, of course, I just need to say, YMMV -- that's what worked for US, and I sure do hope this (or something! anything! lol!) will be what clicks for your DS. It sounds like he's right at the cusp of the age when *finally* things start clicking.

 

A dear friend of mine with 4 DSs -- 3 of whom have different learning issues -- was always SO calm, and encouraging to me. All but one of her boys were older than our DS#2 with the LDs so I clung to her with her BTDT experience, and the thing she kept saying to me that helped me hang on: "Just be patient. Somewhere about age 14 they start to turn a corner." So, my personal mantra was "hang on till age 14 before you panic". LOL! And DS actually started to turn the corner not long after turning 12. Another friend with a DS with mild Aspberger's didn't start to "click" until about age 16, but the point is that these students DO mature, and DO start to get it -- they are just on a much later timetable of development. So, sometimes it may not even be a matter of WHAT you use, it's just that you happened to use something new at about the same time that their unique brain maturation rate finally switches on.

 

It will happen Tara! Just hang on! DS will click when his brain is ready to, and you'll have the joy and excitement of getting to see him move forward! Hugs, Lori

 

 

PS --  a few more resources for you:

 

Things we did to practice Spelling:

- visual picture/story for homophones on the whiteboard (for example meat, draw the "a" as a heart = I LOVE meat, and "meet" draw a stick person at each end of the word shaking hands over the double "ee" in the middle)

- out loud spelling practice, with the word on the white board, looking at each letter while saying it -- then the rest of the week use the Toss It idea (third idea in tip #4 at that link) to practice back-and-forth out loud spelling

- practice simultaneous thinking/writing/spelling -- dictate a very short sentence (about 6-7 words) with 2-3 spelling words in it; have student say each word then spell it out loud as they write the word

- using whole arm, make each letter with finger on the table top, looking/saying each letter

- student writes the word BIG on a whiteboard, saying each letter as spelling it, then uses fingertip to erase it letter by letter, spelling out loud each letter while saying it

- visual memory ideas from Dianne Craft's website and Jeffrey Freed's book "Right Brain Children in a Left Brain World"

- look for smaller words within words; use colored markers on white board to show adding on root word in one color and endings, prefixes, etc. in another color

 

 

Once we had Grammar down, when DS was older, we used Grammar with a Giggle (grades 6-8), and The Chortling Bard (gr. 9-12) as a Grammar concepts review but esp. as practice with revising/proofing -- it's a paragraph a day that adds to an overall story.

Edited March 11, 2016 by Lori D.

[MysteryJen]

I don't have anything to add to Lori's excellent advice. But dd2 is doing shockingly well in Latin. I nearly fell over when I graded her first test. We are using Henle. No explanation for this success, given all her other troubles with spelling, grammar, copying math problems, etc.

[GoVanGogh]

I am not overly familiar with dyslexia but my DS14 has several learning challenges, including aphasia. (Expressive language disorder. In his case, he suffered a stroke prior to birth and it split his language centers over the hemispheres. He struggles with getting thoughts out, either orally or written/typed.)

DS is doing extremely well with a foreign language. We studied casually at home for one year, and he is now on his second year taking outside the home. His specialists were eager for him to try a foreign language, as they said there was a chance his brain might be able to make up those missing pathways via learning a new language. I am not sure what is going neurologically, but we have seen a lot of improvement recently - things coming together - that we had never seen before.

Just from my limited experience, I would say not to discount it too early. I never would have thought DS could learn another language. He reads English very well, but otherwise has struggled with all aspects of his native language.

 

Beyond that -

Our state's education board has posted high school graduation requirements. I was just reading over them yesterday and did note that they have an exemption for foreign language in the event of a learning disability that makes it too challenging.

 

I would let your child decide what language, so they might be self-motivated to learn, and search for a program that best fits their learning style or accommodates their dyslexia.

[EKS]

ASL counts at some schools and not others.

 

My son (who has dyslexia) did two years of Latin at Oak Meadow.  I don't think he learned much (not OM's fault), but he got the credits he needed.

Edited March 11, 2016 by EKS

[FairProspects]

Thank you, Lori D.! You have no idea how encouraging the 14 y.o. comments are at this moment!

[Lori D.]

Thank you, Lori D.! You have no idea how encouraging the 14 y.o. comments are at this moment!

 

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  HUGS to all the moms with delayed learners or students with LDs whose brains haven't clicked into the maturation process yet!! Hang in there!!  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

[foxbridgeacademy]

DS is dyslexic and we tried Spanish for years and he could not get past basic greetings let alone vocab and verb conjugation. ASL on the other hand is relativly easy and he has no trouble remembering vocab and is even learning grammar.  It does help that his sister is learning along with him. 

[itsheresomewhere]

I just wanted to say how happy I was to see this thread.  Thank you all.

[DebbS]

For those of you with kids who have dyslexia, how do you handle a high school foreign language? My son has a terrible time with spelling, and his grasp of grammar is poor, as well. I'm still working intensively with him on these things in English ... I can't imagine trying to tackle it in another language.

 

Does ASL count??

 

ASL may count. It depends on the state you are in and the college that he would like to attend. My son is taking ASL in college as his Foreign Language requirement.

 

[OneStepAtATime]

With regard to acceptance of ASL, maybe this would help?

 

http://www.mlschools.org/Page/3128

[ondreeuh]

I am not overly familiar with dyslexia but my DS14 has several learning challenges, including aphasia. (Expressive language disorder. In his case, he suffered a stroke prior to birth and it split his language centers over the hemispheres. He struggles with getting thoughts out, either orally or written/typed.)

DS is doing extremely well with a foreign language. We studied casually at home for one year, and he is now on his second year taking outside the home. His specialists were eager for him to try a foreign language, as they said there was a chance his brain might be able to make up those missing pathways via learning a new language. I am not sure what is going neurologically, but we have seen a lot of improvement recently - things coming together - that we had never seen before.

Just from my limited experience, I would say not to discount it too early. I never would have thought DS could learn another language. He reads English very well, but otherwise has struggled with all aspects of his native language.

 

 

This is so interesting. It is theorized that my ds had a small stroke shortly after birth as he had open heart surgery and had to be on bypass twice in his first four months of life. His language has ALWAYS been totally mucked up - unintelligble speech for years (finally graduated speech therapy at 14 but still has errors), difficulty recalling words, and in addition to terrible spelling, he leaves out words and parts of words when he writes. It took so much work to teach him to read but he is finally a fast reader. It really seems like the various parts of his brain that handle language are not communicating with each other.

 

Which language is your son taking? And did you ever find a spelling method or system that has worked? We are now trying Phonetic Zoo level A and he is stuck on list 2. Feel free to PM me - I am very excited to finally find someone whose child might have  similar issue to my son's.

[ondreeuh]

Our school district does not require foreign language for graduation, and our state colleges don't require it either. So at this time I don't plan to have DS learn one - although I am curious now if he might be able to do Latin or ASL.

 

 

[elegantlion]

Just to add another happy anecdote, one of the professors at my school is dyslexic and is fluent in more than one foreign language and has reading knowledge in several more historical languages. They worked really hard to get to that point, but it is possible. 

[Haiku]

His language has ALWAYS been totally mucked up - unintelligble speech for years (finally graduated speech therapy at 14 but still has errors), difficulty recalling words, and in addition to terrible spelling, he leaves out words and parts of words when he writes. 

 

These things describe my son, as well. He was in speech therapy for 8 years, but he still has speech issues and has trouble pronouncing multisyllabic words. He also skips words and letters when writing.

[PeterPan]

I don't know if anyone mentioned this yet, but you could go totally conversational using an online/skype tutor.  That's what I have in mind for ds when his time comes.

[ondreeuh]

These things describe my son, as well. He was in speech therapy for 8 years, but he still has speech issues and has trouble pronouncing multisyllabic words. He also skips words and letters when writing.

Have you ever had luck with a spelling program? I am really worried about his his spelling will hold him back.

[Haiku]

We did Apples and Pears, and now we are working on MegaWords. MegaWords is better, but he couldn't have started it without completing A&P first.

[GoVanGogh]

This is so interesting. It is theorized that my ds had a small stroke shortly after birth as he had open heart surgery and had to be on bypass twice in his first four months of life. His language has ALWAYS been totally mucked up - unintelligble speech for years (finally graduated speech therapy at 14 but still has errors), difficulty recalling words, and in addition to terrible spelling, he leaves out words and parts of words when he writes. It took so much work to teach him to read but he is finally a fast reader. It really seems like the various parts of his brain that handle language are not communicating with each other.

 

Which language is your son taking? And did you ever find a spelling method or system that has worked? We are now trying Phonetic Zoo level A and he is stuck on list 2. Feel free to PM me - I am very excited to finally find someone whose child might have  similar issue to my son's.

 

DS is taking French, his choice.

 

Has your DS seen a neuropsych? Or been screened for aphasia?

We were very fortunate to land with a pediatric speech therapist who formerly worked with geriatric patients, mostly stroke victims.She is the one that kept saying DS presented as a stroke victim, not "just" cerebral palsy. Neuropsych later confirmed. Since DS has been receiving services geared specifically for aphasia, he has done very well. Prior to that - many of the same things you mentioned: leaving out words or parts of words, trouble recalling words, etc. Contractions were a nightmare. He knew how to spell them orally, knew how contractions worked, but when he went to write them, they always became twice as long... His neurologist said he would just never be able to write contractions due to his language centers being spread across midline. I gave up on contractions a few years back but now he can write them. I don't know when or how it happened.

 

I used every spelling program known... Nothing worked well, though we did have the most success with Sequential Spelling. I think that is because DS has trouble with motor memory due to cp. For years he knew how to write his name and could write his name, but it always looked like he was writing it for the very first time. Writing words and parts of words over and over again with SS was great for his motor memory issues. I also do spelling on a whiteboard leaning against wall, so he has to be up on his knees, with whole body engaged. I had read that could be beneficial in engaging more of the body into spelling.

 

DS had 25% bilateral hearing loss from roughly six months of age until a year, due to repeated ear infections. After tubes, his hearing always tested fine. I kept taking him for hearing tests until he was 8 or 9 years old, due to (what I thought was) him not hearing certain sounds. DS had been in speech therapy, but got to the point where he wouldn't speak at all. We took a long break, then went to a private facility and ended up with the above mentioned therapist. She noticed that DS couldn't "feel" the sounds, not that he couldn't hear them as I had assumed. V, F and Th gave him the most trouble - if you put your mouth in position for those sounds, you should feel a slight difference in where your tongue, lips and teeth are. He couldn't. Same for B and P. She spent two months just working on mouth placement and feeling the letters. His spelling increased five grade levels just from two months of intense oral-motor therapy. 

 

I have since read that many people with dyslexia have low oral-motor skills. There is certainly a lot of overlap with all of the dys- diagnosis and neurological conditions causing learning challenges. It makes me wonder if there is a connection that might help dyslexics? I don't know. For DS, there was a total disconnect between his brain and his mouth. I have also read that children "mouth" the words as they are starting to learn spelling and that helps imprint written language with spoken language in the brain. DS certainly missed that developmental step. Prior to oral-motor therapy, DS was reading at an adult level and spelling at first grade level. It was awful. Very discouraging for both of us. His spelling is still behind, but improving. He now can type well and - even without spell check - he can type/spell much better than writing/spelling. (Typing doesn't cross the midline of the brain as much as penmanship.) 

 

I would love to PM with you. I put this on open side, in case it can help others.