Is this appropriate? Helpful? Overly controlling?

[Alice]

OK, and here is where we come to the heart of the matter. Believe it or not, the issue at hand is not whether/how DH participates around the house. It's about whether I'm overly controlling. My oldest is going through some stuff, and I've been spending a lot of time thinking about how I may have been/may be contributing to the problem. 

 

 

 

In our house dh is the one that always has a "best" way to do everything. And yes, it is annoying sometimes and does feel overly controlling. For him, it's the way he grew up. His whole family is like this. They sincerely believe that there is one BEST way to do everything and that it is their way. 

 

After 15 years of marriage I mostly laugh it off or save up the stories so I can share them with a friend over coffee and get my venting out that way. Dh and I joke about it and since I pointed out to him that his family is like this he will see it also when we are all together. He's the youngest so the dynamic is that they all tell him the right/best way to do things. 

 

As for doing things the best way or the more efficient way...In general, I do like to do my best. But as far as household tasks go I have more of a "good enough" attitude. I like the house clean and relatively neat and clutter free. But I don't care about things like the best way to fold a fitted sheet. I'm ok with doing it wrong. In my 43 years of life, I feel like my overall happiness and well-being have not been jeopardized by wrinkly sheets or by a linen closet that is not perfectly organized. We have a saying that I started early in our marriage that sometimes "efficiency is overrated". I'm ok with doing a good enough job on the house and spending my time doing other stuff that I like more. 

 

In your specific example, I can see your side and why you would want to correct him. We've had the same issues with the dishwasher (me loading it "wrong"). It's something that impacts you (or my dh) more than my linen closet example or other things and I can see why you would feel like it's not helpful if you have to rewash things. However, for me, I get more annoyed because of the pattern of being corrected rather than at the specific example. So, even if dh is right and his way does happened to be the best for something, I tend to inwardly roll my eyes or show annoyance because I'm just tired of being corrected. That may or may not be the case for you and your dh or son. It might be a time to think about picking your battles and pondering what things you really are right about and what things maybe you are being overly controlling about. 

[creekland]

Hubby's an engineer and I grew up very free range and on my own.  Therefore, both of us are always correct and pretty much perfectionists as it pertains to our values and ways of doing things.  Fortunately, we also tend to agree.  However, times (like dishwasher loading) where we disagree are why we set up the rules we did (only one person can load a dishwasher).

 

I'm pretty sure those rules have saved our sanity if not our marriage.  We've both learned to just back off on certain things or at certain times.  It's easier than learning to play nicely with others.  :lol:

[Critterfixer]

Well, how many chores do you do because you feel the need to have them done perfectly every time? That would give you some idea of whether you are too concerned with controlling the outcome. I find that so much of the need to control comes from fear of a bad outcome, which led me to assess realistically whether my fears were valid. A lot of them came from expectations that were completely unreasonable, and many of them I was able to let go of. There will always be things that I do need to have control of, but many things I was able to relax about after I considered them.

 

 

[kroe1]

 

I'm pretty sure those rules have saved our sanity if not our marriage. We've both learned to just back off on certain things or at certain times. It's easier than learning to play nicely with others. :lol:

DH and I have a variation of this philosophy: it is not who is right or wrong that matters, but who feels the strongest about the issue who gets to "win".

[Spryte]

This post keeps reminding me of a story my father tells. When he got married, a general told him to do the dishes right away in their marriage. And to break a favorite dish. And then to do the same thing the next day, and the next, until the wife never asks him to do dishes again.

 

Yup. That's the marriage advice my father got. :)

 

I don't have an answer for this conundrum, as it happens here. Well, did, before we moved. Now we've all had a look at the manual for the new machine and everyone's on board.

 

Could you play dumb, and say you're worried that the machine's not working, and look up the manual? Maybe go from there?

[Cosmos]

What is it about dishwashers, eh?

 

I guess every family needs to work out their own systems. In our case, dh is the one who is picky about dishwasher placement. It's not that I put things in such a way that they won't get clean, but it doesn't always match his template of Perfect Dishwasher Alignment.

 

It's true that his arrangement is most efficient if many, many dishes will be used. But many (if not most) night such tight, efficient placing is unnecessary. My quick, put-it-in way works just fine. And even on nights when his method is required to fit everything in, it would require constant rejiggering. Once plate A appears, plate B must be moved forward. My thought is just wait until the end of the day and then IF it's necessary, do all the rearranging at one time rather than rearrange bit by bit through the day. My way is less time spent on dish-arranging overall. His way is less space used.

 

What it really comes down to is different philosophies and priorities. Certain things I hate to handwash so I want them in the dishwasher even though they are space hogs and it means I will have to hand wash several others in exchange. Other things I want to put in the dishwasher right away because they have raw meat germs or company is on the doorstep and at that moment I value a clean counter quickly over a perfectly arranged dishwasher.

 

Anyway, I don't think it's always true that there's a "right way" to do it. Most space efficient, perhaps, but that isn't always everyone's top priority.

[maize]

My mom would rearrange dishes after I put them in the dishwasher, it did feel like devaluing my efforts. She's an expert at loading, I tend to throw things in and call it good; if I had to do it her way I would never load the dishwasher at all, my brain can't manage that much attention to detail.

These days it doesn't bother me if someone rearranges for me, but it would bother me if they made an issue of trying to get me to do it their right way. Pointing out once that the plates get cleaner if they face the back or some such is fine, but then let it go.

Edited December 16, 2015 by maize

[kewb]

Well if there is one thing I learned in my 23 years of marriage it is that I am happy anyone puts anything in the dishwasher. The other choice is that I am the only one who puts things in. It took me a long time to accept that not doing it my way was not an attack.

 

Everyone knows that I will probably rearrange at some point but it is easier to move a few things then to always have to empty the sink.

 

The dishwasher was not a hill I wanted to die on.

[KungFuPanda]

I vote to just run it and anything that doesn't get clean goes through again. Not worth a fight.

[Halftime Hope]

Well, I have a Married People Rule, and it's one of my most important ones.

And that is, "Do not EVER say, or otherwise take the position that you are 'helping me' by doing housework, implying as that does that doing housework is defined as my responsibility."  "EVER." 

 

And then there is the codicil, "Doing something incorrectly is not going to make me do it.  I am on to you, and wise to you, and not participating in the conveniently but falsely helpless routine."  And furthermore, "It was not my job to start with."  Plus, "I cannot find the butter any easier than you can.  We both know it is in the fridge.  Finding it does not take two people." 

 

Crackin' me up!

[SJ.]

Person B should be happy to have Person A helping load the dishwasher.

Person A should not tell Person B how they are doing it wrong unless they are asked.

 

Honestly, this is a very small issue in the scheme of things.  My boys load the dishwasher and have expressed that they do a bad job at it because they have seen me rearrange the dishes.  Since then I leave things where they put them, or if I am present when they are loading I give them advice on how to load the dishes.  Helping with the dishes should not be a cause of strife in a family! :)

[goldberry]

If person A is a husband, then person B can present the solution as a problem.

 

Person B: Honey, something is wrong with our dishwasher. Look, it got this part clean, and these two things dirty. It is half broken.

 

Person B should continue this repeatedly until Person A figures it out. Then, Person A will prance around the house explaining to any potential dish loader exactly how it should be done. Actually, he will explain it even to those who are too young to load dishes, his next door neighbor, and a few of the dad's at soccer practice. With each explanation, his chest will puff out at the brilliance of his insight. He might even wonder why Kenmore did not ask him to write the product manual.

 

Person B just smiles to herself because job is accomplished.

 

OMG you are brilliant!

[Tsuga]

I'm not sure if this is directed at me, since it doesn't seem to address anything I've said here? If it is, I never said anything about it being for the family. In fact, I tell him not to worry about it, but he wants to help me so he does it anyway. And I'm not sure how explaining that a part of his method actually prevents the machine from doing its intended job (which I presume he also wants it to do) is anal retentive. If the dishwasher isn't getting the dishes clean, then what is the point of expending any energy on using it at all?

 

ETA: Or maybe you were referring to Carol's post? I'm so confused (as usual). 

 

It's more a juxtaposition of two posts and is not any one person. I agree that doing dishes is not "helping mom" but "doing your part". However, I do think that if someone wants it done this way because that is definitely the only way that a dishwasher can be loaded or else it will not come out just right, then that's really more about them.

 

 

And from the side of the person who apparently "cannot" load a dishwasher (although I am 38 and have worked in many industries and even used an industrial dishwashing machine), watching two obsessive dishwasher people go head to head is what really convinced me of the fact that it's not really about the one true way that is actually best in any objective sense.

 

They both had these totally intricate, physics-based theories about how the dishwasher worked and were convinced that this was why it was CRITICAL, critical, I mean we are talking every time you put the cups there a baby in a third-world country dies of pertussis, CRITICAL to get it exactly this way. And I realized they were both equally wrong about their theory and it's really a control thing and has nothing to do with physics, life, the universe, or anything, really. I don't even really know what it was about.

 

They were just so convinced! And so passionate! And in such complicated disagreement.

 

So "anal-retentive" might be an unkind word to use, but frankly I'm not buying the whole, "no it really needs to be done this way". How about just letting it go? Or if not, then do it. And if he wants to do it... deep breaths. This is not a life or death issue.

[Shellydon]

Person B is being critical and should keep his/her mouth shut.

[Ausmumof3]

What is it about dishwashers, eh?

 

I guess every family needs to work out their own systems. In our case, dh is the one who is picky about dishwasher placement. It's not that I put things in such a way that they won't get clean, but it doesn't always match his template of Perfect Dishwasher Alignment.

 

It's true that his arrangement is most efficient if many, many dishes will be used. But many (if not most) night such tight, efficient placing is unnecessary. My quick, put-it-in way works just fine. And even on nights when his method is required to fit everything in, it would require constant rejiggering. Once plate A appears, plate B must be moved forward. My thought is just wait until the end of the day and then IF it's necessary, do all the rearranging at one time rather than rearrange bit by bit through the day. My way is less time spent on dish-arranging overall. His way is less space used.

 

What it really comes down to is different philosophies and priorities. Certain things I hate to handwash so I want them in the dishwasher even though they are space hogs and it means I will have to hand wash several others in exchange. Other things I want to put in the dishwasher right away because they have raw meat germs or company is on the doorstep and at that moment I value a clean counter quickly over a perfectly arranged dishwasher.

 

Anyway, I don't think it's always true that there's a "right way" to do it. Most space efficient, perhaps, but that isn't always everyone's top priority.

This is so true for me! I'd rather wash all the dinner plates than the greasy roasting dish!!!

[staceyobu]

If I notice the dishwasher isn't loaded according to my standards, I just shift stuff around. Or, I just toss it back in the dishwasher a second run if I don't think it's clean. I try not to complain too much when others do chores because I feel like it makes them less likely to help.

 

And, everyone in the world loads a dishwasher differently. I'm always amazed when I watch friends load their dishwashers. They always put stuff in wrong spots. ;)

[38carrots]

That's it. I'm never getting a dishwasher. Seems to complicated for me.

[amy g.]

That sort of helpful information would not be welcomed by me. The picky people in my family can do the job themselves or they can just hush about a better way to do it.

 

I might just go on strike otherwise.

[TranquilMind]

Here's the scenario:

 

Person A loads the dishwasher and thinks of it mainly as assistance for Person B, rather than pitching in as part of the household. When loading the dishwasher, they intentionally do several things that will cause the dishwasher to work less effectively (meaning at least a few items won't get clean and will then have to be washed by hand by Person B). When I say intentionally, I mean Person A does those things intentionally, not that they intend to cause dishes to stay dirty and cause extra work. 

 

When Person B adds dishes to the dishwasher, they notice the quirks and point out that those things (which were intended as helpful) are actually counterproductive because of X, Y, and Z results.

 

Is it appropriate for Person B to point those things out (neutrally), or is it controlling? Is it reasonable for Person A to be annoyed? 

 

I'd like to hear thoughts, and then I'll discuss more about why I'm asking. It all relates to a larger issue we're dealing with at the moment!

Pointing out how something doesn't work well is NOT controlling.  No, person A should not be annoyed.  Person B apparently cares more about how the dishes are done and whether they get clean so Person B's preferences should rule in this case.

 

I'm all about efficiency.  Of course, I do everything the best possible way    ;)

 

Prove it to me if you have a better way, I would say.  I'm extremely efficient because I don't like extra steps.  If you can save me extra steps, I'm listening.  My youngest does this a lot. So annoying how smart that kid is.  Ha.

[sassenach]

Person B needs to either ask A not to help anymore (in a kind and non-accusatory way) or get over it. It's ok if B doesn't want the help because it's not all that helpful. It's not ok to correct the help. Either take it or gracefully decline it.

 

If you cannot tell, we've had versions of this issue in our home.

[foxbridgeacademy]

Answering before I read any posts/comments

 

I'm Person B on this.  While I appreciate the help it created more work for me and doesn't Person A want to know? so when they kindly help in the future it will be even better because I won't have to fix their mistakes :thumbup: .  

 

Caveat: Most people think I'm controlling and too fussy, I think there is a right way to do things and I don't understand why anyone would want to do them the wrong way :confused1: .  As regards to others loading the dishwasher, it helps to walk away and not watch and to make sure the loader will be the unloader or understands that you will tell them what they did wrong.  If you're person A you probably wouldn't want to live with me.

 

ETA: I must not be that controlling, last time we moved DS was the main dish unloader so I let him decide the arrangement of dishes in the cabinet..... It doesn't make 100% sense but it works so I've let it stand (with one or two small modifications).

Edited December 16, 2015 by foxbridgeacademy

[TammyS]

IMO, if you are going to help someone, you have a duty to do it right, to that person's satisfaction.  Otherwise, you aren't helping and may be hindering, so you shouldn't be surprised when you get told that you did it wrong.

 

Yes, it's controlling.  I don't have a problem with that.  A person should have control over their work (unless the work is assigned by a legitimate authority, in which case you do it to that person's satisfaction, but that still doesn't give a 3rd party the right to interfere and "help" in the wrong way).