Murphy101 Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 So now they are considering making selective service a requirement for women too. I'm rather ardently against that. Does anyone else have opinions or whatever about it? I'm not against women CHOOSING to serve presuming they can meet the same requirements of the men. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoPlaceLikeHome Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amira Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 If it were determined that the draft was needed again, I cannot imagine why only men should have to serve. I have much greater concerns about the draft itself than whether women would be drafted along with men. 32 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted December 5, 2015 Author Share Posted December 5, 2015 I have concerns about both. (I have 7 sons, several of which would likely willingly sign up if things got bad enough or even just because after college.) I can think of lots of reasons not to force women too. Namely that they are not men. Which is thoroughly sexist and not PC and old-fashioned of me and I care not one bit. 😎 31 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 (edited) In light of the recent decision by our Secretary of Defense, I do think it's only fair that 18-year old women be required to register with the selective service. Why do women get to opt-out if it has been determined that they are qualified to perform the same duties as young men? Edited December 5, 2015 by NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too 19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 I always wonder if the feminists badgering for women to serve in front line combat actually thought this through. The Supreme Court case relating to select service being male only went though ONLY because of the prohibition for women in front line combat. My husband was just asking me yesterday if I thought our daughters would be on the draft by the time they're 18. I'd have given it 70/30 odds last week but now? I cannot possibly see that court case standing with the current situation with women in combat remaining as it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umsami Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 In Israel, it's normal for men and women to serve. I kind of think it is fairer than both serve if there ever was a draft again. But, I really don't like the idea of anybody being forced to serve. Having said that, it bothers me enormously that so few children of people in government have served...and yet those are the people deciding whether or not to put other people's children on the line. I do give more credence to the opinions of people like Senator McCain when talking about war than I do those who have not served nor been POWs. 21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barb_ Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 I'm mostly concerned about what happens to children when both parents or single parents are called up. The last time there was a draft there weren't a whole lot of single dads. 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 I'm sorry I don't agree. If men have to register, women should too. I do think if some positions have requirements, the requirements should not be altered for gender. Requirements should be the same for both genders. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted December 5, 2015 Author Share Posted December 5, 2015 In Israel, it's normal for men and women to serve. I kind of think it is fairer than both serve if there ever was a draft again. But, I really don't like the idea of anybody being forced to serve. Having said that, it bothers me enormously that so few children of people in government have served...and yet those are the people deciding whether or not to put other people's children on the line. I do give more credence to the opinions of people like Senator McCain when talking about war than I do those who have not served nor been POWs. And I do wonder if those who have served would vote for women being in the front lines or on the draft. I know no one in my family on either side would. I know two women who served who say they would not be for it and would be extremely upset if their daughters were drafted. It is rather easy for people who have not served to say "everyone equal!" But war doesn't give a widget about equality ideals. Brain matters for sure, but the need for brawn is no small thing either and there's just no denying it rare the woman who can physically compete to the same level as a man with the same intense training and exact same requirements. And yeah. Rape and pregnancy during war is not the same level of concern for men either. I wonder how many drafted women would get pregnant to avoid the draft or get out? Another reason I'd think it harder to draft unwilling women. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFSinIL Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 (edited) Didn't Britain, in WW2, call-up women, ages 20 - 30 (not women with kids) into various positions, freeing men up to fight? http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/britain_wwtwo/women_at_war_01.shtml Edited December 5, 2015 by JFSinIL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocelotmom Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 I'm mostly concerned about what happens to children when both parents or single parents are called up. The last time there was a draft there weren't a whole lot of single dads. They have hardship deferments. I don't know how hard it is to qualify for this, but I'd imagine being a single parent or remaining undrafted parent would qualify. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaqui Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 there's just no denying it rare the woman who can physically compete to the same level as a man with the same intense training and exact same requirements. If Israel can handle it, I'm sure we can as well. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umsami Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 And I do wonder if those who have served would vote for women being in the front lines or on the draft. I know no one in my family on either side would. I know two women who served who say they would not be for it and would be extremely upset if their daughters were drafted. It is rather easy for people who have not served to say "everyone equal!" But war doesn't give a widget about equality ideals. Brain matters for sure, but the need for brawn is no small thing either and there's just no denying it rare the woman who can physically compete to the same level as a man with the same intense training and exact same requirements. And yeah. Rape and pregnancy during war is not the same level of concern for men either. I wonder how many drafted women would get pregnant to avoid the draft or get out? Another reason I'd think it harder to draft unwilling women. Yes...the whole sexual harassment and rape culture of the military adds a new dimension to it. To prevent this, should units be segregated by sex? I know there was a Women's Army Corp, but I need to google more to find out what they actually did. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 I don't like that they make anyone do it. Male or female. Should be only voluntary. If they don't get enough people to sign up, then apparently not enough people care about the cause. 20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted December 5, 2015 Author Share Posted December 5, 2015 I don't like that they make anyone do it. Male or female. Should be only voluntary. If they don't get enough people to sign up, then apparently not enough people care about the cause. That's my view as well. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted December 5, 2015 Author Share Posted December 5, 2015 Yes...the whole sexual harassment and rape culture of the military adds a new dimension to it. To prevent this, should units be segregated by sex? I know there was a Women's Army Corp, but I need to google more to find out what they actually did. That's similar to what Israel does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happi duck Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 The idea of a draft makes me feel sick. :( Not everyone is cut out to be a soldier. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaqui Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 I don't like that they make anyone do it. Male or female. Should be only voluntary. If they don't get enough people to sign up, then apparently not enough people care about the cause. Agreed, but if we're going to have a draft we should at least apply it equitably. Yes...the whole sexual harassment and rape culture of the military adds a new dimension to it. Of course, that's not good for men or women. As I've read, entering the military dramatically increases a man's chance of being raped. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateReignRemix Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 I always wonder if the feminists badgering for women to serve in front line combat actually thought this through. The Supreme Court case relating to select service being male only went though ONLY because of the prohibition for women in front line combat. My husband was just asking me yesterday if I thought our daughters would be on the draft by the time they're 18. I'd have given it 70/30 odds last week but now? I cannot possibly see that court case standing with the current situation with women in combat remaining as it is. Why do you think feminists pushing for equal treatment didn't think of this as a possibility? 15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valley Girl Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 In light of the recent decision by our Secretary of Defense, I do think it's only fair that 18-year old women be required to register with the selective service. Why do women get to opt-out if it has been determined that they are qualified to perform the same duties as young men? The young men in my house who will be required to register don't believe women should be in combat for a variety of reasons. However, they also feel that if combat positions are opened to them, then young women should also be required to register at 18 just like the guys. Equality and all that. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 I'm not really okay with it but I also don't agree with the recent decision to allow women into all combat positions. Of course, the draft to begin with bothers me. Neither of my dds are cut out for military life, especially combat, and would be putting themselves and others in danger if forced to try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRAAB Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 (edited) So now they are considering making selective service a requirement for women too. I'm rather ardently against that. Does anyone else have opinions or whatever about it? I'm not against women CHOOSING to serve presuming they can meet the same requirements of the men. I agree. I'm also opposed to the draft. For anyone. Edited December 5, 2015 by Ishki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 I'm not a fan of the Draft, but I don't see how it's fair to make only men sign up. I really don't think it'll be an issue either way, though. The military has been cutting people, and have more people wanting to sign up than they have positions. With drone technology and everything else they can do now, I can't imagine that we'd end up in the position of needing so many soldiers that we'd have to start drafting people. And in my experience, the people I saw who couldn't physically handle the military had issues with stamina and cardiovascular health rather than strength, which doesn't have all that much to do with gender. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechWife Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 I have concerns about both. (I have 7 sons, several of which would likely willingly sign up if things got bad enough or even just because after college.) I've never known anyone to sign up for the armed forces "just because." I can't imagine such a person being a successful soldier, airman, sailor or marine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechWife Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 They have hardship deferments. I don't know how hard it is to qualify for this, but I'd imagine being a single parent or remaining undrafted parent would qualify. Currently, single, custodial parents get called up from reserves and sent to combat zones. Active duty members of the armed forces who are also single, custodial parents also get sent to combat zones. I don't see that it would be any different were a draft instituted. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Agreed, but if we're going to have a draft we should at least apply it equitably. Of course, that's not good for men or women. As I've read, entering the military dramatically increases a man's chance of being raped. I agree. Even if people argue that women shouldn't do certain jobs in the military, there are plenty of jobs they can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linders Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 I'm in favor. There are many non-combat options, but I think it is wrong to ask for equal opportunity-equal pay if you are unwilling to provide equal commitment to our country. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErinE Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 If both sexes can serve in combat roles, both must register for the draft. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted December 5, 2015 Author Share Posted December 5, 2015 I've never known anyone to sign up for the armed forces "just because." I can't imagine such a person being a successful soldier, airman, sailor or marine. Oh for bleeping sakes. LOTS of people sign up just because.... Free college Patriotism Family tradition/expectation Desire to serve Seeking adventure/challenge Civic duty ideals Whether they come out thinking that it was worth it or that's what they got out of it might be debatable but yes, a lot of good soldiers enlist "just because". 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Oh for bleeping sakes. LOTS of people sign up just because.... Free college Patriotism Family tradition/expectation Desire to serve Seeking adventure/challenge Civic duty ideals Whether they come out thinking that it was worth it or that's what they got out of it might be debatable but yes, a lot of good soldiers enlist "just because". Yep. I can vouch for that. I signed up because I wanted money for college. I signed when I was 17 so I had a year to change my mind. I changed my mind. Mostly because I heard too many stories from others in my unit (National Guard) that money and benefits promised were often not given. So no not because I think the whole thing would be glorious or I believed in the cause. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaqui Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Currently, single, custodial parents get called up from reserves and sent to combat zones. Active duty members of the armed forces who are also single, custodial parents also get sent to combat zones. I don't see that it would be any different were a draft instituted. It might. Back during WWII, you could get deferred from the draft for a number of reasons, one of was having dependent children. A draft would almost certainly be unpopular. If one were instituted now, who knows what exemptions would be made? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frances Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 I don't like that they make anyone do it. Male or female. Should be only voluntary. If they don't get enough people to sign up, then apparently not enough people care about the cause.I have exactly the opposite view. I think we would be getting involved in far fewer questionable conflicts if everyone's young adult children, male or female, were at risk of being sent into a war zone. While I agree that not everyone is suited to serve in combat, appropriate screening could be used to assign individuals to suitable roles. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaqui Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Oh for bleeping sakes. LOTS of people sign up just because.... Free college Patriotism Family tradition/expectation Desire to serve Seeking adventure/challenge Civic duty ideals Whether they come out thinking that it was worth it or that's what they got out of it might be debatable but yes, a lot of good soldiers enlist "just because". Don't forget dental care. I actually know multiple people (more than one, anyway - not sure of the exact number) who signed up for dental work. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 (edited) I have exactly the opposite view. I think we would be getting involved in far fewer questionable conflicts if everyone's young adult children, male or female, were at risk of being sent into a war zone. While I agree that not everyone is suited to serve in combat, appropriate screening could be used to assign individuals to suitable roles. It's not just combat. Not everyone is cut out for military life in general. I can't disagree enough with the idea that everyone should serve in the military in some capacity. ETA: FTR, my dad, both grandfathers, my fil, all my bils, and my dh have served. All volunteered even some during a draft. I still don't think it's right for everyone. Edited December 5, 2015 by Joker 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootAnn Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Unfortunately, I saw this coming several years ago. My acutely anxious child has had nightmares for the last year that include he/she being drafted sometime in the future. (Lots of the fears are far-fetched.) Both sides of my family have military service in every generation, including mine, back to the first American-born generation. I'm married to a former military man. I am not in favor of a draft that includes females for combat duty. I'm completely against the changes that were announced today & have been taking place over the last several years. I wish I had a toilet bowl flushing emoticon. That's how I feel about the direction of this country in so many policies. :thumbdown: 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateReignRemix Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 (edited) Oh for bleeping sakes. LOTS of people sign up just because.... Free college Patriotism Family tradition/expectation Desire to serve Seeking adventure/challenge Civic duty ideals Whether they come out thinking that it was worth it or that's what they got out of it might be debatable but yes, a lot of good soldiers enlist "just because". When you stated earlier that your sons may sign up "just because", the phrasing indicates that there would be no real reason behind them signing up. Yet then you say just because...and list all kinds of reasons. Had you said your sons may sign up for free college/desire to deserve/family tradition or any of the other reasons you listed, I don't believe TechWife would have made the comment she did. Your list of reasons supports what she said - generally young men don't sign up "just because". The reasons you list seem to be pretty good ones to me and require more than a shrug and "just because". Edited December 5, 2015 by ChocolateReignRemix 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Just because they need a job and .gov will take them, is just because. I can't talk about a draft in polite company. Hiss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaqui Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 When you stated earlier that your sons may sign up "just because", the phrasing indicates that there would be no real reason behind them signing. Maybe in your dialect, but to be honest, I find "just because of a not-so-serious reason" to be a valid construction. And "I want adventure/challenge" is definitely not-so-serious. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateReignRemix Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Maybe in your dialect, but to be honest, I find "just because of a not-so-serious reason" to be a valid construction. And "I want adventure/challenge" is definitely not-so-serious. Just because is incomplete and does indicate a not serious reason. Every reason she listed seems pretty legit to me. I still think she jumped down TechWife's throat for no reason. (Just because maybe?) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El... Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 (edited) I know of no one who is in favor of a draft. I hope I never do. (!) It has always seemed logical to me that both men and women should register with selective service. I'm a veteran. The smarter and more technologically adept warfare becomes, the less a bulky physique is required. I do not think being a female handicaps a person's intellect or emotional endurance. ETA: Wow, I sound harsh. I think I just responded to my first controversial thread. Sorry, guys, this one gets me. Anyhow! Who are the "they" in the OP? I haven't watched the news lately.... Edited December 5, 2015 by elroisees 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8circles Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 I think if there were a draft it should be both male and female. But I wouldn't support a draft. It's interesting how many people comment how their daughters just couldn't do it, blah, blah, blah... don't you think there are also men who aren't cut out for military duty? Like I said, I wouldn't support the draft at all, but just being a man doesn't mean you're cut out for that kind of work. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted December 5, 2015 Author Share Posted December 5, 2015 I think her stating a presumption that soldiers she doesn't know anything about of not being decent soldiers is a good enough reason to jump down her throat. I don't much care if anyone agrees with me or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 I have exactly the opposite view. I think we would be getting involved in far fewer questionable conflicts if everyone's young adult children, male or female, were at risk of being sent into a war zone. While I agree that not everyone is suited to serve in combat, appropriate screening could be used to assign individuals to suitable roles. Did that really happen historically though? Meaning when people were drafted they successfully prevented a questionable conflict when forced into it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 I think if there were a draft it should be both male and female. But I wouldn't support a draft. It's interesting how many people comment how their daughters just couldn't do it, blah, blah, blah... don't you think there are also men who aren't cut out for military duty? Like I said, I wouldn't support the draft at all, but just being a man doesn't mean you're cut out for that kind of work. I said I don't think it's right for everyone. I also said my dds couldn't do it but I only have girls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 (edited) I don't like the idea of a draft, but I do think that it should be for everyone, regardless of gender, if there is one. Edited December 5, 2015 by EKS 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 I can't talk about a draft in polite company. Hiss. yep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 (edited) My country has compulsory national military service for all male citizens. That was one of the top reasons parents gave for migrating if they have sons. The rat race was the reason if they have only daughters. A friend was born with a hole in the heart. He had multiple operations while serving his compulsory miltrary service as an operations clerk. Most of his 2.5 years of service was spent in hospital on tax payers dime. It would be better if they just exempt him. Malaysia started having compulsory militrary service for girls as well as boys. Horror stories came out in the news of harassment. Another thing with militrary service is the reservist duty. Employers back home were not happy about it because it meant they have to hire temps to fill in for the full time staff who had to report for reservist duty for weeks. The gossip was that anyone earning above $15k per month won't get called. My SIL and my nephew is in the Air Force. Opting to join is different from compulsory service. My brother applied but was rejected on medical grounds. He did serve the compulsory miltrary service repairing tanks. He was injured during basic miltrary training so the defence ministry paid for the operation and hospital stay. ETA: My hubby served his in the miltrary band, classified unfit and they probably had too many clerks already. My cousins served as combat engineers. A medically unfit (metal leg brace and crutch) cousin was logistics storekeeper, he just sit all day and walk very little. Edited December 5, 2015 by Arcadia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocelotmom Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Currently, single, custodial parents get called up from reserves and sent to combat zones. Active duty members of the armed forces who are also single, custodial parents also get sent to combat zones. I don't see that it would be any different were a draft instituted. Draft runs by different rules than voluntary military service. Hardship deferment because of the needs of dependents has both historical precedence and support in current law. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechWife Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 I'm in favor. There are many non-combat options, but I think it is wrong to ask for equal opportunity-equal pay if you are unwilling to provide equal commitment to our country. Men and women have always had equal pay in the military. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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