At what point is a person's odd paranoia worth looking into by a professional? (my mom)

[6packofun]

My mom is 65 and very healthy, not showing any signs of any mental or physical issues other than general wear and tear.  She's pretty active and still works PT.

 

That said, I've noticed that she just seems to be a paranoid person and it's gradually becoming more noticeable.  I don't think it's at the point where I should get her evaluated, but what are your opinions on when I would KNOW that it's probably a good idea?  I doubt she'd tell someone, "Hey, I'm feeling paranoid.", you know?

 

I don't see her in person very often, but we talk several times a week on the phone.  She has had issues of being burned by people before, namely neighbors.  The neighbor's kid most likely threw mouse/rat poison blocks into her yard, we assume to hurt her dogs, but we can't know for sure.  Her dogs are her LIFE.  (Not her grandkids, no, but that's another thread. LOL)  

 

SO, examples of the paranoia would be that she really thinks someone is listening in on our phone conversations sometimes when we talk.  One of her neighbors was in the FBI so she assumes he can just listen in somehow.  Apparently our conversations about the best dog food and the quality of her dog's poop are of national security interest or just general interest?

 

She does't trust people of basically any ethnicity other than white.  I was NOT raised in a home where overt racist comments were made very often at all, but things have been said in passing over the years, and her comments tick me off.  I know I'm not without biases no matter how hard I try, because we all have them to some degree.  She'll comment on someone's LOOKS and then make this dramatic shuddering sound like the person she doesn't even know creeps her out.  I hate it.

 

She thinks people are trying to get her in trouble at work.  She won't go to church because people are all fake there and judge her. (OK, we've talked about authenticity in churches before here, so I know that there could be some basis for this one!)

 

She refuses to let ANY handymen or workers into her home to help with a wasp problem, plumbing gone wrong, etc. and just wants her sons to do it, even if they're not qualified. lol

 

She's just turning into a quirky old lady and it kind of makes me sad.  She has a couple friends, including one or two in the neighborhood that she sees when she's out walking her dogs so it's not like she's a total hermit.

 

I'm not asking this in regards to all the mental health + guns conversations, btw!  LOL  She would never own one and I'm not worried about her hurting herself or anyone.  Maybe these things aren't that big of a deal?  I'm just worried about her because she's alone. She seems to like her life, though, so I'm not anywhere close to approaching her about it, I guess.  I dunno.  Thanks for listening, anyway!  LOL

[idnib]

Given what you've said here, I think she qualifies to be evaluated by a professional. Getting her to go along with it is another thing altogether though.

[Guest]

This does sound a little like it's getting on the outer edge of typical. I notice similar things with my dad and it worries me some, too.

[SproutMamaK]

I agree with idnib. Yes, I think there's enough there for an evaluation. This is how problems start to seep in. The slowly creeping paranoia and distrust, the off-hand comments that they never would have said before. However, getting her to agree that she should be looked at may be an issue. :/

 

[Laura Corin]

She sounds very like my mother, but my mother is 91.  

 

What kind of people does she mix with?  Is she living in a paranoid atmosphere?  That could make a difference.

[Katy]

Mmmm, how long has it been since she had a physical?  I'd start there or get her to a walk in clinic if you can, go in with her, have a UA done.  With people around her age minor things like bladder infections or other minor, undetected infections can cause things like this.

 

More serious things do too, but I wouldn't discuss that with her, I'd just say you're concerned because she seems a little off lately and you think you should take her in for a checkup.  Then describe things to the doctor in soft terms that aren't likely to offend her but which the doctor will understand, such as "fear."  Fear is a symptom of many things that a good doctor will understand.

 

ETA: mention "slight personality change" and "my friend who's a nurse was wondering about bladder infection" as well.

[Stacia]

Can you call her doctor & tell him/her what you've said here? That way, the next time she's in, there will be some notes already in her file.

 

Stuff like this can be caused by medications being slightly off or other health-related things....

 

 

[zoobie]

It's interfering with her quality of life, so it's worth an eval.

[Bocky]

I saw this happen with my Mom. It seemed to be a result of growing social isolation in her case, made worse by the slow onset of hearing loss (now being treated). What has worked really well for Mom was moving in to an independent living apartment in a large retirement home. She has lots of friends and activities now, including a fabulous volunteer gig she started at a local low-income school, and she is so much happier and more mentally healthy. Not having the maintenance issues with a house has helped a lot. She is super private person, and really dithered over the choice and perceived loss of privacy, but it has been the best thing for her.

This is a hard thing to watch from a distance. I hope you can find something to help your Mom.

[6packofun]

Mmmm, how long has it been since she had a physical?  I'd start there or get her to a walk in clinic if you can, go in with her, have a UA done.  With people around her age minor things like bladder infections or other minor, undetected infections can cause things like this.

 

More serious things do too, but I wouldn't discuss that with her, I'd just say you're concerned because she seems a little off lately and you think you should take her in for a checkup.  Then describe things to the doctor in soft terms that aren't likely to offend her but which the doctor will understand, such as "fear."  Fear is a symptom of many things that a good doctor will understand.

 

ETA: mention "slight personality change" and "my friend who's a nurse was wondering about bladder infection" as well.

 

Gosh, I don't even know how long it's been.  I REALLY want her to see someone because she has, well, a leaking br*ast implant that showed up on a mammogram or something a few YEARS ago.  She is very low-income and, would you know it, she's paranoid of doctors trying to rip her off or trying to put her on medication she doesn't want/trust.  *sigh*  

 

When I type it all out it seems more than I realized, you know?  But it has just slowly been happening.  I'm terrified that if I get her to go and/or go with her, that ANY question about this issue will be obvious to her and she'll be completely pissed off at the doctor and not go back.  And if she knew it was ME?  WHEW!!  Seriously, if I said she seemed "a little off to me" she'd be very offended.  :(

 

I think I need to find a way to maybe ask her about her thought process in the moment WHEN she says it.  Maybe to get HER to start thinking about her own responses to things?  We do talk about things on the news together a lot and that may not help.  Not just negative stuff, but maybe that's not good for her anymore.

[6packofun]

Wanting the sons to do their dad's job seems to be normal. Does she use small jobs as a way to increase their visiting, or is she trying to save her social security up for another goal?

 

She's been married and divorced 3x; I have one brother who shares my father and another who does not.  They visit her and she's NOT needy at all.  She seems perfectly happy with her life, honestly!

 

She told me about a guy at work who told her that she "sure hates a lot of stuff." and she got SO mad at him.  This is a guy she talks to every single week and probably would have called her friend before this.  But I AGREE with him!  She hates--her words--children, doesn't like to even hear them in the neighborhood, and is very nit-picky about a TON of stuff and doesn't mind mentioning it.  lol

 

She has no financial goals other than to make it by on what little she has.  She goes to food pantries because it's hard to stretch her income. (And yes, she just got another dog. *sigh*)  It's really hard to talk to her about HER!

 

I really need to get a handle on all of this before her mental status changes more, you know?!  Maybe I will have a sit-down talk with my siblings soon.

[6packofun]

Oh, she is not on any medications,not sure she even has a regular doc, is a loose vegetarian and likes to use only natural stuff when possible.  She would not consider that her quality of life is bad at all and other than what I've mentioned here she *seems* content with her life.  Even though she complains a lot!

[gardenmom5]

I saw this happen with my Mom. It seemed to be a result of growing social isolation in her case, made worse by the slow onset of hearing loss (now being treated). What has worked really well for Mom was moving in to an independent living apartment in a large retirement home. She has lots of friends and activities now, including a fabulous volunteer gig she started at a local low-income school, and she is so much happier and more mentally healthy. Not having the maintenance issues with a house has helped a lot. She is super private person, and really dithered over the choice and perceived loss of privacy, but it has been the best thing for her.

This is a hard thing to watch from a distance. I hope you can find something to help your Mom.

 

Sometimes moving in to an assisted living is best. Getting them to willingly do so is a whole 'nother ball o wax .

I had to put my foot down with my mom and let her know she had no choice. (but she was 76, and falling.)

[Jean in Newcastle]

My mom is 65 and very healthy, not showing any signs of any mental or physical issues other than general wear and tear.  She's pretty active and still works PT.

 

That said, I've noticed that she just seems to be a paranoid person and it's gradually becoming more noticeable.  I don't think it's at the point where I should get her evaluated, but what are your opinions on when I would KNOW that it's probably a good idea?  I doubt she'd tell someone, "Hey, I'm feeling paranoid.", you know?

 

I don't see her in person very often, but we talk several times a week on the phone.  She has had issues of being burned by people before, namely neighbors.  The neighbor's kid most likely threw mouse/rat poison blocks into her yard, we assume to hurt her dogs, but we can't know for sure.  Her dogs are her LIFE.  (Not her grandkids, no, but that's another thread. LOL)  

 

SO, examples of the paranoia would be that she really thinks someone is listening in on our phone conversations sometimes when we talk.  One of her neighbors was in the FBI so she assumes he can just listen in somehow.  Apparently our conversations about the best dog food and the quality of her dog's poop are of national security interest or just general interest?

 

She does't trust people of basically any ethnicity other than white.  I was NOT raised in a home where overt racist comments were made very often at all, but things have been said in passing over the years, and her comments tick me off.  I know I'm not without biases no matter how hard I try, because we all have them to some degree.  She'll comment on someone's LOOKS and then make this dramatic shuddering sound like the person she doesn't even know creeps her out.  I hate it.

 

She thinks people are trying to get her in trouble at work.  She won't go to church because people are all fake there and judge her. (OK, we've talked about authenticity in churches before here, so I know that there could be some basis for this one!)

 

She refuses to let ANY handymen or workers into her home to help with a wasp problem, plumbing gone wrong, etc. and just wants her sons to do it, even if they're not qualified. lol

 

She's just turning into a quirky old lady and it kind of makes me sad.  She has a couple friends, including one or two in the neighborhood that she sees when she's out walking her dogs so it's not like she's a total hermit.

 

I'm not asking this in regards to all the mental health + guns conversations, btw!  LOL  She would never own one and I'm not worried about her hurting herself or anyone.  Maybe these things aren't that big of a deal?  I'm just worried about her because she's alone. She seems to like her life, though, so I'm not anywhere close to approaching her about it, I guess.  I dunno.  Thanks for listening, anyway!  LOL

With the exception of the fear of having her phone tapped, she doesn't seem to have thinking that is pathological as such.  Someone really did throw rat poison apparently into the yard from what you said, so it's not like her neighborhood is all roses.  Lots of people are prejudiced and have that become more pronounced with age.  It sounds like from what her work colleague said down thread, that she has somewhat of a reputation at work that could make her feel less than appreciated and wary if she is low income and fearful of what a jobloss would do.  Lots of people only want family in their homes.  (I've seen people talk like that on this board.)   Even though her thinking isn't what I personally think warrants a mental health evalution,  her thinking is not what I would call healthy thinking designed to allow her to be happy.  She could have underlying anxiety or depression.  If she would not consider an MD, would she consider going to a naturopathic doctor?  They focus more on the whole person anyway.  

 

I don't really know what else to suggest.  Is there a community center where she could go for social interaction of a more positive nature?  

[katilac]

I would try to get her to a doctor for an overall checkup. She should have one anyway.

 

Paranoia can have various physical causes: dementia, multiple sclerosis, mini-stroke, all kinds of things. 

 

Ideally, you would know which doctor ahead of time so you could alert the office. 

 

Many of the things you listed are not that concerning on their own, but altogether may be limiting her life.

 

Not letting in workers is somewhat concerning, simply bc it's necessary at times, but it's a legitimate concern in some ways. Would she let in a worker if someone were there with her? 

 

The FBI tapping her phone is the one that most catches my attention, simply bc it is so very unlikely, and she is really young to lose that sense of what's realistic or not. 

[Laurie4b]

My mom is 65 and very healthy, not showing any signs of any mental or physical issues other than general wear and tear.  She's pretty active and still works PT.

 

That said, I've noticed that she just seems to be a paranoid person and it's gradually becoming more noticeable.  I don't think it's at the point where I should get her evaluated, It's already there. but what are your opinions on when I would KNOW that it's probably a good idea?  I doubt she'd tell someone, "Hey, I'm feeling paranoid.", you know?

 

I don't see her in person very often, but we talk several times a week on the phone.  She has had issues of being burned by people before, namely neighbors.  The neighbor's kid most likely threw mouse/rat poison blocks into her yard, we assume to hurt her dogs, but we can't know for sure. Are you saying there were poison blocks in her yard but don't know for sure who did it or are you saying that you dont know for sure that that happened?   Her dogs are her LIFE.  (Not her grandkids, no, but that's another thread. LOL)  

 

SO, examples of the paranoia would be that she really thinks someone is listening in on our phone conversations sometimes when we talk.  One of her neighbors was in the FBI so she assumes he can just listen in somehow.  Apparently our conversations about the best dog food and the quality of her dog's poop are of national security interest or just general interest?  Crosses the line. Needs an evaluation. 

 

She does't trust people of basically any ethnicity other than white.  I was NOT raised in a home where overt racist comments were made very often at all, but things have been said in passing over the years, and her comments tick me off.  I know I'm not without biases no matter how hard I try, because we all have them to some degree.  She'll comment on someone's LOOKS and then make this dramatic shuddering sound like the person she doesn't even know creeps her out.  I hate it. This is unfortunately more common. Older people lose their filters. 

 

She thinks people are trying to get her in trouble at work.  She won't go to church because people are all fake there and judge her. (OK, we've talked about authenticity in churches before here, so I know that there could be some basis for this one!)  This is notable as well. Either she thinks people are trying to get her into trouble and they are not, or her behavior is stirring up trouble. Either way, it's a problem. 

 

She refuses to let ANY handymen or workers into her home to help with a wasp problem, plumbing gone wrong, etc. and just wants her sons to do it, even if they're not qualified. lol I think that might fall under a normal variation. There are reasons to be wary of handmen especially as a woman living alone. So many of my grandmother's antiques were found to be gone after she'd had a handyman in over th years. 

 

She's just turning into a quirky old lady and it kind of makes me sad.  She has a couple friends, including one or two in the neighborhood that she sees when she's out walking her dogs so it's not like she's a total hermit.

 

I'm not asking this in regards to all the mental health + guns conversations, btw!  LOL  She would never own one and I'm not worried about her hurting herself or anyone.  Maybe these things aren't that big of a deal?  I'm just worried about her because she's alone. She seems to like her life, though, so I'm not anywhere close to approaching her about it, I guess.  I dunno.  Thanks for listening, anyway!  LOL

 

 

I would agree with others that she needs an evaluation, but also agree that it might be hard to get that to happen. For one thing, many otc drugs can cause cognitive changes. Also, many people develop B12 deficiency as they get older. A nurse just told me today that she thought her dad was really losing it then he got his B12 tested, was found to be deficient, is getting shots and is back to normal. 

 

I would try to get your siblings on the same page. 

[applethyme]

This is how dementia started with my husband aunt.  She just seemed a little paranoid but it wasn't until she had a full physical and neuopsych assessment that the extent of her dementia became known.  During this time she lived independently and worked full time and was able to do so for a couple more years until the dementia progressed. 

[gardenmom5]

 

 

The FBI tapping her phone is the one that most catches my attention, simply bc it is so very unlikely, and she is really young to lose that sense of what's realistic or not. 

 

except there are people on the fringes (both sides of the political spectrum) who think that even in their 20's & 30's.

[6packofun]

 

My mom is 65 and very healthy, not showing any signs of any mental or physical issues other than general wear and tear.  She's pretty active and still works PT.

 

That said, I've noticed that she just seems to be a paranoid person and it's gradually becoming more noticeable.  I don't think it's at the point where I should get her evaluated, It's already there. but what are your opinions on when I would KNOW that it's probably a good idea?  I doubt she'd tell someone, "Hey, I'm feeling paranoid.", you know?

 

I don't see her in person very often, but we talk several times a week on the phone.  She has had issues of being burned by people before, namely neighbors.  The neighbor's kid most likely threw mouse/rat poison blocks into her yard, we assume to hurt her dogs, but we can't know for sure. Are you saying there were poison blocks in her yard but don't know for sure who did it or are you saying that you dont know for sure that that happened?   Her dogs are her LIFE.  (Not her grandkids, no, but that's another thread. LOL)  

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately, yes, someone DID throw them in her yard.  She does not use them at all because of her pets and she kept a few to show me!  The kid next door is a brat.  But most of the other people are just...people with their own ideas on what noise levels should be, typical neighbor stuff, IMO.  But she's mentioned that she thinks people she's complained to (or not) that SHE does not like talk behind her back and "wouldn't put it past them to try to get her in trouble."  With what I have no idea!

 

THANK YOU all for your input.  I really appreciate being able to get this out and having others help me feel out the situation!

[Catwoman]

With the exception of the fear of having her phone tapped, she doesn't seem to have thinking that is pathological as such. Someone really did throw rat poison apparently into the yard from what you said, so it's not like her neighborhood is all roses. Lots of people are prejudiced and have that become more pronounced with age. It sounds like from what her work colleague said down thread, that she has somewhat of a reputation at work that could make her feel less than appreciated and wary if she is low income and fearful of what a jobloss would do. Lots of people only want family in their homes. (I've seen people talk like that on this board.) Even though her thinking isn't what I personally think warrants a mental health evalution, her thinking is not what I would call healthy thinking designed to allow her to be happy. She could have underlying anxiety or depression. If she would not consider an MD, would she consider going to a naturopathic doctor? They focus more on the whole person anyway.

 

I don't really know what else to suggest. Is there a community center where she could go for social interaction of a more positive nature?

:iagree:

 

I'm not seeing the huge red flags that others seem to be concerned about. She sounds like a lonely lady who has been burned in the past for trusting the wrong people, so she is now overly-cautious.

 

I would be more concerned about loneliness and depression than I would about dementia.

[ThisIsTheDay]

Sometimes moving in to an assisted living is best. Getting them to willingly do so is a whole 'nother ball o wax .

I had to put my foot down with my mom and let her know she had no choice. (but she was 76, and falling.)

 

I don't disagree with the moving into assisted living.  However, my almost 90yo mil exhibits many of the same behaviors, only to a greater degree (don't want to get into it here).  While she refuses to see that *she* is the problem, she recently moved from a house she'd lived in for 12 years into a retirement center.  This has been a huge upset into her life, and her paranoia has escalated quite a bit.  It was easy for her to hide it in familiar surroundings, I think. 

 

Some examples include supposedly withdrawing and hiding large amounts of cash. Then she can't remember where she put them and claims they are stolen--by employees of the retirement center, neighbors with hidden keys, etc.  (She has her own apartment.) And she believes that "the bank is in on it," telling this unknown thief that she has cash which they then come find and steal.  Her continued accusations may get her kicked out of the center, though.

 

It really is very concerning.

[Katy]

:iagree:

 

I'm not seeing the huge red flags that others seem to be concerned about. She sounds like a lonely lady who has been burned in the past for trusting the wrong people, so she is now overly-cautious.

 

I would be more concerned about loneliness and depression than I would about dementia.

 

You could very well be right.  But I was shocked when I was working in nursing at how often someone with similar traits went from suspicious and argumentative to delightful after a few days of antibiotics.  I thought it was nuts the first time I watched a nurse call a doctor and ask for approval for a UA.  It seemed like a normal patient having a bad day to me, but the nurse I was working with said that no, this was a personality change. This was in one of assisted living centers that was combined with a nursing home, and this particular lady was otherwise independent but had someone check on her and give her medications twice a day.  It turned out she had a fairly bad kidney infection in terms of lab results, but her only symptom was paranoia. 

 

That was fairly early in nursing school.  Again and again I saw the same results after that.  If there's a sudden change in personality it's more than likely some sort of infection.  Most often UTI, but sometimes ear, tooth, or some random infection.  Even when I worked in hospitals it seemed like the two most frequent reasons for hospital admissions among older people were 1) injuries due to falls and 2) random paranoid or aggressive behavior that signaled an unknown infection. I've personally seen this in patients hundreds of times.

 

Fear is also often one of the first symptoms of dementia related conditions and other health issues, but if it's fairly sudden and not accompanied by other symptoms it's usually a UTI.  I don't know why.  I guess it's like how some kids are really crabby right before they come down with a fever.  Perhaps it's evolutionary biology - your immune system cranks up the cranky when you have an infection to reduce the chances of spreading it.

[Plink]

I don't disagree with the moving into assisted living.  However, my almost 90yo mil exhibits many of the same behaviors, only to a greater degree (don't want to get into it here).  While she refuses to see that *she* is the problem, she recently moved from a house she'd lived in for 12 years into a retirement center.  This has been a huge upset into her life, and her paranoia has escalated quite a bit.  It was easy for her to hide it in familiar surroundings, I think. 

 

Some examples include supposedly withdrawing and hiding large amounts of cash. Then she can't remember where she put them and claims they are stolen--by employees of the retirement center, neighbors with hidden keys, etc.  (She has her own apartment.) And she believes that "the bank is in on it," telling this unknown thief that she has cash which they then come find and steal.  Her continued accusations may get her kicked out of the center, though.

 

It really is very concerning.

Sadly, this is extremely common with dementia/memory loss/alzheimers patients.  I'm sure the staff has seen this before and, as awful as it seems, they may be right in encouraging her to find a home with more support than they can offer.  A retirement center/assisted living arrangement isn't someplace that a patient with memory issues will be able to feel or be safe in the long term.  

 

Slightly related book recommendation: "Still Alice" by Lisa Genova is an excellent snapshot of life with alzheimer's disease.  It is a work of fiction, but the author is a neuroscientist, so the science behind the story is solid.

 

~Agreeing with the others that a test for UTI should be step #1

[gardenmom5]

I don't disagree with the moving into assisted living.  However, my almost 90yo mil exhibits many of the same behaviors, only to a greater degree (don't want to get into it here).  While she refuses to see that *she* is the problem, she recently moved from a house she'd lived in for 12 years into a retirement center.  This has been a huge upset into her life, and her paranoia has escalated quite a bit.  It was easy for her to hide it in familiar surroundings, I think. 

 

Some examples include supposedly withdrawing and hiding large amounts of cash. Then she can't remember where she put them and claims they are stolen--by employees of the retirement center, neighbors with hidden keys, etc.  (She has her own apartment.) And she believes that "the bank is in on it," telling this unknown thief that she has cash which they then come find and steal.  Her continued accusations may get her kicked out of the center, though.

 

It really is very concerning.

 

My mother was not safe on her own and needed assisted living where she was checked multiple times a day, someone else was responsible for her meals (and saw that she ate), and dispensed the rx.   that's why I had to put my foot down.  My 90 mil is in a wheelchair - and is more independent and with better cognitive function than my 78 yo mother was.

[Katy]

Sadly, this is extremely common with dementia/memory loss/alzheimers patients.  I'm sure the staff has seen this before and, as awful as it seems, they may be right in encouraging her to find a home with more support than they can offer.  A retirement center/assisted living arrangement isn't someplace that a patient with memory issues will be able to feel or be safe in the long term.  

 

Slightly related book recommendation: "Still Alice" by Lisa Genova is an excellent snapshot of life with alzheimer's disease.  It is a work of fiction, but the author is a neuroscientist, so the science behind the story is solid.

 

~Agreeing with the others that a test for UTI should be step #1

ITA.  :iagree:   Assisted living is not at all appropriate for dementia or anyone needed extensive care.  There's a frontline episode that explains the why:  http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/life-and-death-in-assisted-living/

 

 

ETA: the only thing assisted living is good for are completely independent people whose families would be happier if someone checked on them a few times a day.  If they need anything beyond a reminder to take medications they should be in licensed, regulated and inspected nursing homes with actual nurses on staff.

[Jean in Newcastle]

You know, if she will not go to a doctor, you can test for UTI yourself with kits from a pharmacy.  AZO test strips will at least give you an idea if you need to press harder for a doctor visit or not.  

[Reefgazer]

It seems her paranoia is justified (the rat poison incident) or mostly not going to bother anyone (people are fake at church, racial bias, people spying on her - might be accurate given Edward Snowden's information, LOL), so I would not press the issue.  She's allowed to be weird, and even if that weirdness is caused by early dementia, she seems not to be a threat to herself or others at this time.  I would re-evaluate if she progresses to the point of being a danger to herself or others.  As a previous poster mentioned, I think loneliness and depression are the more likely culprit here.

My mom is 65 and very healthy, not showing any signs of any mental or physical issues other than general wear and tear.  She's pretty active and still works PT.

 

That said, I've noticed that she just seems to be a paranoid person and it's gradually becoming more noticeable.  I don't think it's at the point where I should get her evaluated, but what are your opinions on when I would KNOW that it's probably a good idea?  I doubt she'd tell someone, "Hey, I'm feeling paranoid.", you know?

 

I don't see her in person very often, but we talk several times a week on the phone.  She has had issues of being burned by people before, namely neighbors.  The neighbor's kid most likely threw mouse/rat poison blocks into her yard, we assume to hurt her dogs, but we can't know for sure.  Her dogs are her LIFE.  (Not her grandkids, no, but that's another thread. LOL)  

 

SO, examples of the paranoia would be that she really thinks someone is listening in on our phone conversations sometimes when we talk.  One of her neighbors was in the FBI so she assumes he can just listen in somehow.  Apparently our conversations about the best dog food and the quality of her dog's poop are of national security interest or just general interest?

 

She does't trust people of basically any ethnicity other than white.  I was NOT raised in a home where overt racist comments were made very often at all, but things have been said in passing over the years, and her comments tick me off.  I know I'm not without biases no matter how hard I try, because we all have them to some degree.  She'll comment on someone's LOOKS and then make this dramatic shuddering sound like the person she doesn't even know creeps her out.  I hate it.

 

She thinks people are trying to get her in trouble at work.  She won't go to church because people are all fake there and judge her. (OK, we've talked about authenticity in churches before here, so I know that there could be some basis for this one!)

 

She refuses to let ANY handymen or workers into her home to help with a wasp problem, plumbing gone wrong, etc. and just wants her sons to do it, even if they're not qualified. lol

 

She's just turning into a quirky old lady and it kind of makes me sad.  She has a couple friends, including one or two in the neighborhood that she sees when she's out walking her dogs so it's not like she's a total hermit.

 

I'm not asking this in regards to all the mental health + guns conversations, btw!  LOL  She would never own one and I'm not worried about her hurting herself or anyone.  Maybe these things aren't that big of a deal?  I'm just worried about her because she's alone. She seems to like her life, though, so I'm not anywhere close to approaching her about it, I guess.  I dunno.  Thanks for listening, anyway!  LOL

 

[Reefgazer]

There 'ya go.  Some people are happy the way they are, warts and all.  It doesn't mean she needs mental health services because most of the world doesn't like her warts.  The most I would do is bring your concerns up with her directly, and then let her choose whether to accept assistance to fix herself or not, as she wishes. 

She's been married and divorced 3x; I have one brother who shares my father and another who does not.  They visit her and she's NOT needy at all.  She seems perfectly happy with her life, honestly!

 

She told me about a guy at work who told her that she "sure hates a lot of stuff." and she got SO mad at him.  This is a guy she talks to every single week and probably would have called her friend before this.  But I AGREE with him!  She hates--her words--children, doesn't like to even hear them in the neighborhood, and is very nit-picky about a TON of stuff and doesn't mind mentioning it.  lol

 

She has no financial goals other than to make it by on what little she has.  She goes to food pantries because it's hard to stretch her income. (And yes, she just got another dog. *sigh*)  It's really hard to talk to her about HER!

 

I really need to get a handle on all of this before her mental status changes more, you know?!  Maybe I will have a sit-down talk with my siblings soon.

 

[katilac]

   As a previous poster mentioned, I think loneliness and depression are the more likely culprit here.

 

If so, a medical evaluation might lead to help for the depression. 

 

There 'ya go.  Some people are happy the way they are, warts and all.  It doesn't mean she needs mental health services because most of the world doesn't like her warts.  The most I would do is bring your concerns up with her directly, and then let her choose whether to accept assistance to fix herself or not, as she wishes. 

 

I agree that the items mentioned don't necessarily mean she needs mental health services, but it's worth a check-up to try and see if this is the way she's choosing to be, or if something else is going on. As others have noted, sometimes something as simple as treating a vitamin deficiency can have a big payoff. 

 

If dementia or certain types of paranoia are at play, bringing it up with her directly isn't going to work the way it would with someone who is just difficult or cranky. And, of course, she could be difficult and cranky AND have something else going on, lol. That's why I would have no problem trying to persuade her to get a checkup under the guise of needing one anyway - she DOES need one anyway, and it could potentially have a very positive effect on her life, with no danger of harming her. 

[VeteranMom]

Vitamin deficiencies and hypothyroidism can cause paranoia.  I had paranoia when my B12 level was low.  It was awful and my mind didn't have a moment's peace.  Some medications can cause b12 deficiencies and if a person isn't supplementing with vitamins, all sorts of symptoms can develop.  You should start doing some research prior to a doctor's visit (doctors can be dismissive if you haven't done your research).  Is your mom on any medications?  Even over-the-counter stomach medications like nexium can mess with vitamin absorption.              

[gardenmom5]

ITA.  :iagree:   Assisted living is not at all appropriate for dementia or anyone needed extensive care.  There's a frontline episode that explains the why:  http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/life-and-death-in-assisted-living/

 

 

ETA: the only thing assisted living is good for are completely independent people whose families would be happier if someone checked on them a few times a day.  If they need anything beyond a reminder to take medications they should be in licensed, regulated and inspected nursing homes with actual nurses on staff.

 

there are different levels of senior living. 

 

some are for completely independent adults, and are NOT "assisted living" - but are for seniors. and someone physically checks on them every day. - they also include a dining hall served restaurant style providing regular meals, regular houskeeping and acitivites.  My mother was in one of those that had everything from studios to two bedroom units. we looked at many. (including one that was $100K to get in the door - but that also had two rehab floors that was open to rehab patients between hospital and home. I'm told they also had a dementia unit.  she always wanted to do rehab there when released from the hospital, and she'd often end up there, if there was space, for a couple weeks transitioning back to home.  the food was very good.)

 

she also was in a true assisted living facility when she had to have more help - they also had individual apartments with kitchens/kitchenetts, a dining hall served restaurant style meals - but their meals could be adapted for dietary restrictions and needs. they had a RN on staff who dispensed meds - and kept the records. CNAs were available for help with nebulizers (mom did her own) - or more individual medical help.  they also offered help getting places around the facility - and had their shuttle for dr appointments. and days out.  if they needed help dressing or bathing - those were also available. it was a true 'if you don't need a nursing home" but can't be independent facility.  one wing of the building was a locked unit for dementia patients.

[texasmama]

This falls outside the norm and needs evaluating, IMO.  There are many treatable physical causes for paranoia.

[HS Mom in NC]

Some of it sounds like my Grandmother's dementia.  She was by nature fretful before she had dementia and it just got worse and worse.  She was always a sweetie so that made it easier in some respects. Remember that when you're confused or unsure of something, it's natural to become frightened or angry.

 

Diet can play a role in these things. Missing some essential vitamins, like B12, can seriously affect how a person's brain functions if levels are low enough.  She probably needs someone to keep an eye on her, her diet, her medication and opportunities for her to socialize.  Some assisted living places have different levels of care depending on the individual.  If it's something progressive like dementia, it's nice to be in a place where the level of care increases without relocating.

[poppy]

Sounds like a lot of female relatives on my side.  And not the happy ones.  Is she content if she feels she is judged at church, doesn't trust anyone at work and thinks the neighbors are spying on her--- and will likely have 30+ more years to live?

 

But I think a part of it is also just the confidence / arrogance that comes with age, too- I certainly feel wiser than those 20 years younger than me (I'm 40).   I imagine in 20 years I'll sometimes scoff at those 40 year olds who think they know it all.  Is it possible to you what sounds paranoid is to her just thinking "Ha, I've got that person's number!!" ?

 

Still, I think she should get evaluated.  She almost certainly won't want to, and there's not much you can do about that right now, aside from  gentle encouragement.   What I do is, look at the seniors I know who get a kick out of life, and contrast that seniors I know who spend a whole lot of time complaining and finding reasons to isolate themselves...... and look for ways to bridge that gap.

[Katy]

there are different levels of senior living. 

 

some are for completely independent adults, and are NOT "assisted living" - but are for seniors. and someone physically checks on them every day. - they also include a dining hall served restaurant style providing regular meals, regular houskeeping and acitivites.  My mother was in one of those that had everything from studios to two bedroom units. we looked at many. (including one that was $100K to get in the door - but that also had two rehab floors that was open to rehab patients between hospital and home. I'm told they also had a dementia unit.  she always wanted to do rehab there when released from the hospital, and she'd often end up there, if there was space, for a couple weeks transitioning back to home.  the food was very good.)

 

she also was in a true assisted living facility when she had to have more help - they also had individual apartments with kitchens/kitchenetts, a dining hall served restaurant style meals - but their meals could be adapted for dietary restrictions and needs. they had a RN on staff who dispensed meds - and kept the records. CNAs were available for help with nebulizers (mom did her own) - or more individual medical help.  they also offered help getting places around the facility - and had their shuttle for dr appointments. and days out.  if they needed help dressing or bathing - those were also available. it was a true 'if you don't need a nursing home" but can't be independent facility.  one wing of the building was a locked unit for dementia patients.

 

There are different levels of acuity involved in all medical facilities. If there were also facilities with locked dementia units at both locations, she was legally in a nursing home, even if they called it "assisted living." Nursing homes have legal staffing, oversight, safety, and inspection requirements.  An apartment complex for senior citizens that calls itself assisted living does not have such requirements or oversight, despite sometimes being marketed as a responsible choice for someone with dementia, and it is not a medical facility.  Those places charge extraordinary fees but provide no safety, and as a result there have been MANY unnecessary deaths.  The places without oversight are scams that are dangerous to people who choose them for those with dementia, and I would like everyone here to know that, which is why I posted the link to the Frontline episode which explains the difference more clearly. 

 

If you're an independent senior citizen and you just want to move to a place where you have less maintenance and want to pay extra to be sure there are no screaming babies or college kids nearby, they might be a good choice.  But if you're the daughter of someone who seems to be losing it, she should move into a place with medical care and oversight.

[6packofun]

:iagree:

 

I'm not seeing the huge red flags that others seem to be concerned about. She sounds like a lonely lady who has been burned in the past for trusting the wrong people, so she is now overly-cautious.

 

I would be more concerned about loneliness and depression than I would about dementia.

 

Yes, I don't actually suspect dementia.  I've lived with that before. lol  And you're right that she DOES have past experiences that probably should be kept in mind while considering her paranoia.

[6packofun]

Vitamin deficiencies and hypothyroidism can cause paranoia.  I had paranoia when my B12 level was low.  It was awful and my mind didn't have a moment's peace.  Some medications can cause b12 deficiencies and if a person isn't supplementing with vitamins, all sorts of symptoms can develop.  You should start doing some research prior to a doctor's visit (doctors can be dismissive if you haven't done your research).  Is your mom on any medications?  Even over-the-counter stomach medications like nexium can mess with vitamin absorption.              

 

She calls herself a vegetarian, but eats eggs and fish.  lol  Can people have deficiencies even if they're eating pretty well?  She may not get enough *variety*, that's for sure.  I just brought her some groceries tonight and she was doing great.  She's not on ANY medications.  

 

It's weird hearing people suggest dementia and assisted living...it sounds like my mom is OLD!  LOL  She's not to me.  :p  But this thread has helped me to see that she's entering the time in her life where she could probably use some regular involvement from her children and I'm going to talk to my siblings about that.

 

She is out and about with her dogs and her PT job and otherwise is content to just be at home.  She is pretty industrious, to be honest.  (And I'd say she has mild hoarding tendencies, but so do I!)

[HS Mom in NC]

She calls herself a vegetarian, but eats eggs and fish.  lol  Can people have deficiencies even if they're eating pretty well?  She may not get enough *variety*, that's for sure.  I just brought her some groceries tonight and she was doing great.  She's not on ANY medications. 

People can lose the ability to absorb B12 from food and need shots to get their levels back up to normal.  It happened to me.  If she's low she won't even be able to make it back up with supplements, she'll have to do injections several times a week for weeks before she can switch to supplements.  Even then she may not be able to absorb it and might need shots once or twice a month. It's a very big deal to be deficient for a long time.

[idnib]

She calls herself a vegetarian, but eats eggs and fish.  lol  Can people have deficiencies even if they're eating pretty well?  She may not get enough *variety*, that's for sure.  I just brought her some groceries tonight and she was doing great.  She's not on ANY medications.  

 

It's not just about intake, but also absorption.

[texasmama]

I have pernicious anemia, which is an autoimmune issue in which dietary B12 is not absorbed.  My grandmother had it, too.  It caused serious and significant issues for me, both physical and cognitive, before it was discovered and treated with injections.  Pernicious means "tending to cause death or serous injury", and I was on my way to the former and experiencing the latter.  My diet was healthy and varied and non vegetarian. I've been on injections for almost a decade and will need them for a lifetime.

[luuknam]

SO, examples of the paranoia would be that she really thinks someone is listening in on our phone conversations sometimes when we talk.  One of her neighbors was in the FBI so she assumes he can just listen in somehow.  Apparently our conversations about the best dog food and the quality of her dog's poop are of national security interest or just general interest?

I'm guessing she's worrying about this FBI neighbor in particular? Or is it more general? And does she refuse to discuss certain things over the phone because "people are listening in" or does she just think it's possible but it doesn't affect her behavior? If she thinks this FBI neighbor is out to get her and listening in on her in order to catch her or w/e, then I'd be concerned. If she just thinks it's possible the FBI is listening in but still blabs about everything on the phone and isn't worried about the FBI guy down the street throwing her in the back of a van and detaining her indefinitely or w/e, I wouldn't be too concerned since you say she's still happy with her life etc.

 

I would however want to have her vitamin levels (several B vitamins) checked, because, like others have already said, the elderly often aren't as good as absorbing them as younger people. My MIL also had low vitamin B12, though for her it was causing forgetfulness. You don't have to tell her you're worried about her current symptoms - you can just say that since this causes problems over time, it's easier to catch it early and supplement now if necessary than wait until later when it would require shots. If it turns out to require shots now, oh well.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10448529(incidence 10-15% in people 60+yo)

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25756278(screening in the elderly is a good idea because symptoms can be so vague and it's so common, if only there were more reliable methods)

 

ETA: depending on where she lives, you might also want to talk her into getting a vitamin D screening, which might be an easier way to convince her to see the doctor, though I don't think vitamin D deficiency causes paranoia.

[Sherri in MI]

How are things going with your Mom?  I realize this was a few months ago, but it caught my eye when I was doing a search for Alzheimer's.

 

It sounds like some form of dementia, possibly to me.  My Mom has Alzheimer's which manifested gradually with different kinds of paranoia over time, then got really bad. There were memory issues as well for my Mom, but she was very intelligent and really good at covering for a long time. She was not normally paranoid.  She was only 69, when it became really bad and we noticed.  But in retrospect, it had been happening gradually.  It could be other things, as others have said, such as a UTI, vitamin deficiency, etc. 

 

When we found out, we also found out that my Mom hadn't been to the doctor for a few (3).  Prior to that she was really good about going to the doctor and had a good relationship with her.

 

In my opinion, it's important to inform her doctor of your concerns, see if you can get her in just for a "regular checkup", accompany her if you can.  It's really important you or your siblings get involved so you know what's going on with her.  Has she designated a medical and financial power of attorney?  My Mom did not and to this day it is difficult and/or impossible to get her the help that she needs, though we did eventually get a diagnosis of Alzheimer's.

 

Early intervention is important, regardless of the cause.  But do it gently. It's important to not undermine trust.   A direct approach or trying to reason with her most likely will not work because she's not thinking right.  Her reasoner is broke, whether it's temporary or not.

 

My Mom went through multiple losses and financial stress before her paranoia (and delusions) got really bad.  It didn't cause the dementia, but made it worse and provoked the worsening symptoms.

 

The Alzheimer's Association has been very supportive and helpful.  Many of their suggestions didn't work for us because we got involved too late and Mom's paranoia was too far gone.  She is still in excellent physical shape and can still do many things on her own, but just doesn't think right, can't plan well, is forgetful and delusional (her former pastor is out to get her).  I did notice that her paranoia and delusions have some tie, even if remote to her life history.  Her former pastor was not very supportive during a crisis in her life when she went to him for help, now in her mind he is at the center of the conspiracy ring that has taken everything away from her.

 

Best wishes to you and your family.

Edited February 25, 2016 by Sherri in MI

[Anne in CA]

This is probably something that could use addressing, but my own mom has some moments. Her sister begged her not to go on vacation to Mexico with us several years ago because "EVERYONE in Mexico is a gang member/ drug dealer". So it runs in my mom's family. My mother used to say that the little paperclip with eyes that bounced around on your computer monitor was Bill Gates spying on her... but I think she was joking...

[Amy in NH]

Vitamin deficiencies and hypothyroidism can cause paranoia.  I had paranoia when my B12 level was low.  It was awful and my mind didn't have a moment's peace.  Some medications can cause b12 deficiencies and if a person isn't supplementing with vitamins, all sorts of symptoms can develop.  You should start doing some research prior to a doctor's visit (doctors can be dismissive if you haven't done your research).  Is your mom on any medications?  Even over-the-counter stomach medications like nexium can mess with vitamin absorption.              

 

Which may be why otc heartburn meds can cause dementia? 

 

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/02/17/heartburn-drugs-tied-to-dementia-risk/?_r=0