A month of bullying. Isn't that enough?

[WinsomeCreek]

A heartfelt thanks to all of you for contributing thoughts and ideas. I have a hard time seeing that any 7 or 8 year old needs the police called on them, but I get that it is to make a statement to the school and parents, hopefully to spur action. It seems obvious that young kids need the right guidance. The recess monitors have been told repeatedly. The pattern is to tell the other kid not to hit and send him back out to play. The principal tells us she has been working on this daily and with the other parents extensively. I have no reason to doubt that. Still, there have been no repercussions or specifics.

 

Ds refused to switch classes. He says the other kid already calls him a tattle tale. Ds insists that if he switches classrooms he would have it worse at recess. Same for forcing the other kid to switch. Amazingly, the kids actually all play well at recess aside from this boy targeting ds. Dh and I both watched. If the kid would just stop.... The thing is, the other kid is so much bigger than ds that he has hurt him pretty badly twice now; the punch to the stomach and the one to his kidney.

 

Dh and I fought, then negotiated, and finally came to agreement. We requested a school change. The principal was understanding and immediately offered to help out, along with expressing regrets at losing ds. 

[WinsomeCreek]

To the person mentioning the star student: I understand and ds understands. It was scheduled. From a 7 yo's perspective who was hit by the kid last school day, it feels monumentally unfair. I would have expected a postponement because a repeat assault should have resulted in at least a suspension for a day. Even that would have made ds feel that adults were considering his well being. In the 2nd grade world it empowered the bully.

 

 

[Garga]

The advice is great. Just want to say this all makes me soooo angry! Your poor little guy. I was the ostracized kid at school and I know the pain it causes. I never even considered asking an adult for help. How wonderful it is that you're going to help him in whatever way you can. It would have been such a balm on my poor bruised spirit to know someone had my back.

[dirty ethel rackham]

Maybe share some articles about the long-term effects of bullying with your husband. It does not help kids learn to cope with the world.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/20/long-term-effects-of-bullying_n_2728190.html

 

https://www.mentalhelp.net/articles/the-long-term-effects-of-bullying/

 

http://www.latimes.com/science/la-sci-sn-bullying-worse-than-child-abuse-20150428-story.html

 

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/05/140512-bullying-health-depression-stress-science/

:iagree: BTDT.  Still carrying the scars, knowing that I could not trust the adults in my life to help me.  I was on my own and completely outmatched. 

 

Report the school to child services.

 

Can you contact the parents?

 

If there is ever a bruise take him to the ER.

 

Document document document

If this were the beginning of the journey, I would recommend this.  However, this boy has suffered enough.  A child at that age suffering from depression needs a solution that makes this end NOW. 

 

Even if you do pull him out, I would suggest looking into martial arts classes. Find one for kids that focuses on self-defense.

 

<snip>

 

I would say pull him out, and tell DH that you'll discuss putting him back in school after a year of martial arts and a year of maturity. It may do a world of good.

:iagree: 

 

 

Forgive me for intruding into a thread like this when I've only just gotten here, but as a big 6 foot dude who's about 250 pounds and has almost gotten a few teachers in my district fired over the last decade... in my opinion the "real world" is one where parents put their kids' safety first and their egos second.

No judgment meant to be implied towards you or your husband.

:iagree:   Liking this was not enough!!!

 

Don't ask to have your child moved to another classroom. Ask/demand that the bully be moved to another classroom. That is who should have the consequence and if the school thinks you are serious about persuing charges, they may oblige you to avoid that. My younger brother was able to get my 8 year old niece's school to do that this year. The bully's family wasn't happy but my brother didn't want my niece to lose her teacher or friends because she was being targeted.

 

2e kids are common targets for bullies. Sticking it out is not wise if the school is tolerating the bullying behavior. This is partly WHY we homeschool at all. The damage from 1 year of bullying was very serious (my son didn't even let us know what was going on until 1/2 way through the year).

:iagree:  We homeschooled partly because I lived with the scars of bullying.  I saw it happening to my kids at scouts, on baseball teams.  At least at home, he didn't have to deal with it. 

 

How often in the "real world" does your husband get punched in the stomach?

 

Then if he reports to his boss the boss goes "Oh. Too bad. Maybe we should move your desk away from the person who assaulted you?"

 

And the policeman goes "Um...well, his dad is somebody important so....."

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

 

I think I'd feel caught between a rock and a hard place -- peace in the marriage, concern for my child. (Nobody should ever have to choose between these two.)

 

One way out of a dilemma like this is to swap roles and take the upper hand. Right now, you are the one supposed to make the case for pulling the child out. But status quo does not have to equal the default. The default is not, "Our children go to public school." The default should be, "We do the best for our child." Where, when, and how are variables.

 

I suggest you pull him out at once (because he needs to be safe YESTERDAY and his entire life is being affected by this unreasonable victimization) and put the onus on DH to make the case for returning him to school.

 

In other words, "DH, child can't wait for all these adult solutions on adult time. He needs to be defended, protected, and saved right now. He needs out of that school. If you want him to go back, please let me know when policies have been improved and the school is ready to prioritize his safety. I don't know what you'll need to do to bring that about, but child must be in a safe environment every day. That environment is home, until school is safe, too."

 

You might still have a horrible time with DH. But this is reasonable. Turn the tables. Gently, lovingly, firmly, bring him home.

 

 

 

OP.  I'm glad that you found other options to remove your child from such a toxic situation.  I hope the new school works out better. 

[WinsomeCreek]

It makes me angry too. I am so sorry for what you endured. Spouses, friends, children all live with the damage done to a single soul. Those scars don't completely heal. In addition to sharing the articles with Dh I emphasized the kind of man ds will become if he carries those scars. The data showing that bully-victims fare the worst was extremely helpful. Ds is the kind that would go that route.

 

Dh observed two recesses and told me that the other kid is not very nice. There is a child with facial tics in ds' class. Dh said bully kid was making fun of him for it. The other kids were all fine, the only mocking was from that one child. So I don't think removing ds is going to solve the bully problem at that school.

 

In the midst of this though, it's surreal how there's this acceptance of what a young child should go through that would be totally unacceptable for adults. :blink:

[MarkW]

At the risk of inciting anyone to violence, I've gotta agree with Tibbie here. I can't conceive of the marriage where it's controversial whether daily beatings at school are a problem.

[Tsuga]

Your avatar makes your comment that much better.

[Beaniemom]

So sorry you had to deal with such a rotten situation. We were fortunate last year when my kids were in ps that the administration took bullying very seriously and when my ds and dd reported bullying the administration quickly took action and there was a plan in place involving consequences which included loosing recess time for a period of time (a few days I think).

Hopefully your new school will be more supportive.

[abba12]

I'm sorry. I have no advice though. The schools generally don't care about bullies, that's why I was homeschooled to begin with, years of bullying meant I had some serious mental health issues by the end of it. It's absolutely wrong..... if an adult did it to another adult they'd go to jail. and the victim would never have to see them again, but a child often has no consequences at all and the victim is expected to sit beside them in class the next day. It's just so, so wrong. 

[mamiof5]

I am not sure what I would do in this situation? I would probably pull my son out right away, but it sounds like this is not a viable option for you right now. I would demand for the school to do something immediately, but not keep it just in words. Have the other parents been notified? Are they aware of the situation? I would probably request a meeting with the principal, counselor, and the other kid's parents. This is not acceptable. I know schools try hard, but what is the ratio in a playground during recess? A couple hundred kids watched by 8-10 teachers and helpers? How can they keep an eye on everyone? I am so sorry your son is going through this, school is supposed to be a place for learning.

ETA: totally missed your post about changing schools. The best of luck for your son!! Still, it aggravates me that your son had to change schools because of one person. This is one of those situations in which I can't help but wonder...where do the bully's parents stand in this matter? Do they have a remote idea of what their son did?

[Southern Ivy]

Yes, I'd pull my son in a heartbeat.

 

Just me: but I'd go to the local media and demonstrate that this zero tolerance nonsense isn't real. I know others on here won't agree w/ me, but I'd seriously talk to an attorney. That the school isn't protecting your son is absurd. Other kids are being abused too. I know my son wouldn't tell me if this were happening to him. I'd just have to guess or his twin might talk, but otherwise I wouldn't know.

 

I think the schools talk a good game about zero tolerance, but I don't think most of them really back it up.

 

I'd take the heat from my husband to protect my son. Absolutely.

 

Alley

I agree with Alley. 

 

As a teacher who had to deal with craptastic administration who did jack-squat about anything remotely related to bullying, whose "zero tolerance" meant allowing students abuse teachers and students and then just laughing it off...I say, pull your student and pull the media or an attorney into it. Be prepared for administration to lie about what really occurred, but definitely call them out for it. 

Our situation at my school did not resolve until a teacher was punched in the head and was laughed at by our principal and told "You should have moved." The teacher got pissed, and rightly so, then called our union rep. THAT got the ball rolling - that and the threat of assault charges. 

Sometimes it takes some heat to get things changed. And this is coming from the queen of avoiding confrontation! 

 

But definitely pull your son and be his advocate!

[Mergath]

Maybe share some articles about the long-term effects of bullying with your husband. It does not help kids learn to cope with the world.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/20/long-term-effects-of-bullying_n_2728190.html

 

https://www.mentalhelp.net/articles/the-long-term-effects-of-bullying/

 

http://www.latimes.com/science/la-sci-sn-bullying-worse-than-child-abuse-20150428-story.html

 

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/05/140512-bullying-health-depression-stress-science/

 

Nope. It doesn't. Quite the opposite, in fact. I was so beaten down, demoralized, self-hating, and just generally messed up after twelve years of bullying in school that it took me a long, long time to be able to cope with the world at all after I finally graduated. All the people who say that bullying makes kids stronger were obviously not the victims of bullying as kids. Life is not a Disney movie. You don't stand up to the bully once and suddenly he/she leaves you alone and you have hundreds of friends and life is wonderful the end.

 

OP, I'm glad you found a solution. I hope your son has better luck at his new school. 

[LucyStoner]

I agree with Alley.

 

As a teacher who had to deal with craptastic administration who did jack-squat about anything remotely related to bullying, whose "zero tolerance" meant allowing students abuse teachers and students and then just laughing it off...I say, pull your student and pull the media or an attorney into it. Be prepared for administration to lie about what really occurred, but definitely call them out for it.

Our situation at my school did not resolve until a teacher was punched in the head and was laughed at by our principal and told "You should have moved." The teacher got pissed, and rightly so, then called our union rep. THAT got the ball rolling - that and the threat of assault charges.

Sometimes it takes some heat to get things changed. And this is coming from the queen of avoiding confrontation!

 

But definitely pull your son and be his advocate!

I learned that a zero tolerance policy for bullying is most often, in practice, a zero tolerance policy for bullied children. IME, it's really quite common for the hammer to fall down on the child who has been bullied when they even slightly stand up for themselves.

 

My son was hit, threatened and belittled all year. Documentation, meetings...nothing happened to the aggressive child and the small group of children who formed his posse. Finally, towards the end of the year my son grabs the boy by his sweatshirt hood and screams bloody murder. No injuries. By all accounts this is then first time my son did anything but run away and hide after trying to get help that never came from the playground "monitors". We get told he is suspended, that CPS will be called because he physically harmed another child and we need to meet with them to make a safety plan. Well. The district's OWN LAWYER reviewed the case that night and told the principal they couldn't suspend my son or call CPS because the records showed that he'd been antagonized for quite some time and there were no injuries. The principal called me late that night or early the next morning to say my son was welcome back in school. Then it tumbles out that my son was missing for the better part of a day and they didn't call me, the district or the police. It turned out he'd been hiding all day, safe but they had no way of knowing that. I was livid. Thanks but no thanks people. We didn't go back. Over the summer the principal "resigned to spend more time with her family". We were not the only ones with a similar tale to tell but we sure the heck were made to feel we were and that our son was the only child in this situation. That summer I ran into so many families who were withdrawing from that school. This was the "good school" in the gifted program in a well off neighborhood. We went out of our way to put him there. A very disheartening experience and it was the last straw for us and FT public education.

[kolamum]

I think if the school can't protect your child as is their duty, then I would be seeking outside help. If I also witnessed this kid picking on my child you'd be darn sure I'd not only record it but step in for my kids & then, further, I'd track down the parent & let them have it. Just because this kids Daddy is a big-wig doesn't mean his Daddy thinks this behaviour is cool. What it means is no one has disciplined the child for his actions. 

 

When I was working in a school & we KNEW we had a trouble child we had an extra set of eyes on that particular child at all times. That means an extra person was available during "free time" & if the child acted out then he sat. When parents came to collect the parents were spoken to. It took the child bullying a teacher {tripping her intentional in the hallway} before firm action was taken. It just so happened that as he whispered to a friend & then stuck out his leg he missed the pregnant teacher & got the aid. His mother, thankfully, was walking down the hallway when the incident happened. I think it was SEEING it in action when she finally realised that we weren't talking about a few "childish" incidents. Our problems with said child were far & few between once the parents took action of their own. Sometimes, some parents have to SEE IT to believe it.

[Sahamamama]

I learned that a zero tolerance policy for bullying is most often, in practice, a zero tolerance policy for bullied children. IME, it's really quite common for the hammer to fall down on the child who has been bullied when they even slightly stand up for themselves.

 

My son was hit, threatened and belittled all year. Documentation, meetings...nothing happened to the aggressive child and the small group of children who formed his posse. Finally, towards the end of the year my son grabs the boy by his sweatshirt hood and screams bloody murder. No injuries. By all accounts this is then first time my son did anything but run away and hide after trying to get help that never came from the playground "monitors". We get told he is suspended, that CPS will be called because he physically harmed another child and we need to meet with them to make a safety plan. Well. The district's OWN LAWYER reviewed the case that night and told the principal they couldn't suspend my son or call CPS because the records showed that he'd been antagonized for quite some time and there were no injuries. The principal called me late that night or early the next morning to say my son was welcome back in school. Then it tumbles out that my son was missing for the better part of a day and they didn't call me, the district or the police. It turned out he'd been hiding all day, safe but they had no way of knowing that. I was livid. Thanks but no thanks people. We didn't go back. Over the summer the principal "resigned to spend more time with her family". We were not the only ones with a similar tale to tell but we sure the heck were made to feel we were and that our son was the only child in this situation. That summer I ran into so many families who were withdrawing from that school. This was the "good school" in the gifted program in a well off neighborhood. We went out of our way to put him there. A very disheartening experience and it was the last straw for us and FT public education.

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: I hope your son has recovered from this. What a terrible experience for him (and you)!

 

About the highlighted above, I can't imagine how livid I would have been.  :cursing: Wow. No wonder you pulled him!

[Michelle in MD]

This was the "good school" in the gifted program in a well off neighborhood. We went out of our way to put him there. A very disheartening experience and it was the last straw for us and FT public education.

 

This was exactly our experience--the "talented & gifted" school by admission only with a 1.5 hour bus ride, all so that my son could be mercilessly bullied (glasses broken WHILE he was wearing them, pants pulled down on the bus) with zero support from the administration when we complained.  In fact, all they could offer was to say that somehow he should "get tougher," which, at age nine with two parents barely above five feet tall, was not happening any time soon.

[LucyStoner]

:grouphug: :grouphug: I hope your son has recovered from this. What a terrible experience for him (and you)

 

About the highlighted above, I can't imagine how livid I would have been. :cursing: Wow. No wonder you pulled him!

As to how livid, I'm pretty sure cartoon book steam was coming out of my ears at that point.

 

And yes, he has recovered. He's a 7th grader and doing really well now. What was so insidious was how much the bullying was not only not addressed by the school but the degree to which the teacher, principal and staff actually participated in the bullying dynamic. Children who bully also often pick their primary targets based on who the teacher doesn't like or is frustrated with and then when the child who is being bullied goes for help, they find no one is willing to protect them. It was not an easy road and the whole experience delayed his accurate diagnosis (ASD) by as much as a year as the school related anxiety became the dominant issue that year and in some ways masked what was really going on with him.

[mamiof5]

I learned that a zero tolerance policy for bullying is most often, in practice, a zero tolerance policy for bullied children. IME, it's really quite common for the hammer to fall down on the child who has been bullied when they even slightly stand up for themselves.

 

My son was hit, threatened and belittled all year. Documentation, meetings...nothing happened to the aggressive child and the small group of children who formed his posse. Finally, towards the end of the year my son grabs the boy by his sweatshirt hood and screams bloody murder. No injuries. By all accounts this is then first time my son did anything but run away and hide after trying to get help that never came from the playground "monitors". We get told he is suspended, that CPS will be called because he physically harmed another child and we need to meet with them to make a safety plan. Well. The district's OWN LAWYER reviewed the case that night and told the principal they couldn't suspend my son or call CPS because the records showed that he'd been antagonized for quite some time and there were no injuries. The principal called me late that night or early the next morning to say my son was welcome back in school. Then it tumbles out that my son was missing for the better part of a day and they didn't call me, the district or the police. It turned out he'd been hiding all day, safe but they had no way of knowing that. I was livid. Thanks but no thanks people. We didn't go back. Over the summer the principal "resigned to spend more time with her family". We were not the only ones with a similar tale to tell but we sure the heck were made to feel we were and that our son was the only child in this situation. That summer I ran into so many families who were withdrawing from that school. This was the "good school" in the gifted program in a well off neighborhood. We went out of our way to put him there. A very disheartening experience and it was the last straw for us and FT public education.

No way!!! So sorry your son went through that! Not sure that school would have seen the end of me...that's not right! So sad that families have to go through stuff like this :(

[mamiof5]

This was exactly our experience--the "talented & gifted" school by admission only with a 1.5 hour bus ride, all so that my son could be mercilessly bullied (glasses broken WHILE he was wearing them, pants pulled down on the bus) with zero support from the administration when we complained. In fact, all they could offer was to say that somehow he should "get tougher," which, at age nine with two parents barely above five feet tall, was not happening any time soon.

Get tougher??? WHAT??? I just can't believe it! Ugh!!! Hope your son has recovered from that

[Professormom]

This is the point I am making! Thank you for the articles. I will forward them to dh. Fortunately he likes evidence and an article in PNAS showing lasting stress response just may be helpful in swaying him. I don't buy the idea that enduring unnecessary hardships when the people you love fail to protect you somehow builds character. It leaves scars.

I know people say this, but I think they often do not realize that it is not BECAUSE of the experience that they came out well, but IN SPITE OF it. Just like having crappy parents, or any number of childhood experiences. It definitely makes you a different person. I am just not convinced that it is formative in a positive way. I would argue that the strong person would have been EVEN BETTER had they not had to endure rounds of crap. Just my two cents:-)

[Southern Ivy]

I learned that a zero tolerance policy for bullying is most often, in practice, a zero tolerance policy for bullied children. IME, it's really quite common for the hammer to fall down on the child who has been bullied when they even slightly stand up for themselves.

 

My son was hit, threatened and belittled all year. Documentation, meetings...nothing happened to the aggressive child and the small group of children who formed his posse. Finally, towards the end of the year my son grabs the boy by his sweatshirt hood and screams bloody murder. No injuries. By all accounts this is then first time my son did anything but run away and hide after trying to get help that never came from the playground "monitors". We get told he is suspended, that CPS will be called because he physically harmed another child and we need to meet with them to make a safety plan. Well. The district's OWN LAWYER reviewed the case that night and told the principal they couldn't suspend my son or call CPS because the records showed that he'd been antagonized for quite some time and there were no injuries. The principal called me late that night or early the next morning to say my son was welcome back in school. Then it tumbles out that my son was missing for the better part of a day and they didn't call me, the district or the police. It turned out he'd been hiding all day, safe but they had no way of knowing that. I was livid. Thanks but no thanks people. We didn't go back. Over the summer the principal "resigned to spend more time with her family". We were not the only ones with a similar tale to tell but we sure the heck were made to feel we were and that our son was the only child in this situation. That summer I ran into so many families who were withdrawing from that school. This was the "good school" in the gifted program in a well off neighborhood. We went out of our way to put him there. A very disheartening experience and it was the last straw for us and FT public education.

OH.MY.WORD! 

Katie, I am so, so sorry! I am seriously embarrassed to be an educator right now. 

 

I fully agree with you though. The zero tolerance policy typically comes down hardest on those who are bullied and stand up for themselves. 

Stories like yours and experiences like I had these last 5 years with my bully of a principal have only further fueled my insistence that dd be homeschool. After hearing all my stories, dh is finally on board too.  

[MarkW]

Zero tolerance is simply zero thought or analysis in pursuit of zero liability, which is a fantasy. We've always found it to come down far harder on our kids who were bullied than the bullies themselves. Almost invariably the bullies are the popular kids or the ones who people readily make excuses for, including the teachers and other faculty. It's a weird phenomenon when the adults in a school start recognizing and get sucked into the same popularity contest as the children in their care, but I've seen it over and over.

[DawnM]

A heartfelt thanks to all of you for contributing thoughts and ideas. I have a hard time seeing that any 7 or 8 year old needs the police called on them, but I get that it is to make a statement to the school and parents, hopefully to spur action. It seems obvious that young kids need the right guidance. The recess monitors have been told repeatedly. The pattern is to tell the other kid not to hit and send him back out to play. The principal tells us she has been working on this daily and with the other parents extensively. I have no reason to doubt that. Still, there have been no repercussions or specifics.

 

Ds refused to switch classes. He says the other kid already calls him a tattle tale. Ds insists that if he switches classrooms he would have it worse at recess. Same for forcing the other kid to switch. Amazingly, the kids actually all play well at recess aside from this boy targeting ds. Dh and I both watched. If the kid would just stop.... The thing is, the other kid is so much bigger than ds that he has hurt him pretty badly twice now; the punch to the stomach and the one to his kidney.

 

Dh and I fought, then negotiated, and finally came to agreement. We requested a school change. The principal was understanding and immediately offered to help out, along with expressing regrets at losing ds. 

 

I am glad you are finding a solution, but very upset that the principal isn't quite seeing the gravity of the situation.  The teacher is not seeing this, so obviously there are times the adults aren't looking.  The child is a bully and will continue to bully another child if yours isn't there.  

 

I just hope at some point they see that this kid needs disciplining and I hope it hurts the parents "has more" status.

[MarkW]

After seeing what the administration of our own local school system is willing to gloss over regarding the behavior of their own staff, and a principal no less, the fact that the principal doesn't see or doesn't care about the seriousness of this issue isn't surprising to me at all. Upsetting, obviously, but sadly not surprising.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Don't ask to have your child moved to another classroom. Ask/demand that the bully be moved to another classroom. That is who should have the consequence and if the school thinks you are serious about persuing charges, they may oblige you to avoid that. My younger brother was able to get my 8 year old niece's school to do that this year. The bully's family wasn't happy but my brother didn't want my niece to lose her teacher or friends because she was being targeted.

 

2e kids are common targets for bullies. Sticking it out is not wise if the school is tolerating the bullying behavior. This is partly WHY we homeschool at all. The damage from 1 year of bullying was very serious (my son didn't even let us know what was going on until 1/2 way through the year).

I agree with this but unfortunately I think the way public schools operate is that they cannot move the bully unless his parents agree. I had my kid moved from one class due to a bully and this is what I was told. My kid was not thrilled but it was the only solution besides homeschooling. I don't regret moving him since I did not want him to spend another minute in that class with the bully. I would have homeschooled but my kid liked the other aspects of the school so I felt it was worth trying to move him.

[WinsomeCreek]

This was exactly our experience--the "talented & gifted" school by admission only with a 1.5 hour bus ride, all so that my son could be mercilessly bullied (glasses broken WHILE he was wearing them, pants pulled down on the bus) with zero support from the administration when we complained.  In fact, all they could offer was to say that somehow he should "get tougher," which, at age nine with two parents barely above five feet tall, was not happening any time soon.

 It helps to hear this. We chose this school because it was supposed to be very good. In many ways it is. But violence is a pretty big negative.

[WinsomeCreek]

As to how livid, I'm pretty sure cartoon book steam was coming out of my ears at that point.

 

And yes, he has recovered. He's a 7th grader and doing really well now. What was so insidious was how much the bullying was not only not addressed by the school but the degree to which the teacher, principal and staff actually participated in the bullying dynamic. Children who bully also often pick their primary targets based on who the teacher doesn't like or is frustrated with and then when the child who is being bullied goes for help, they find no one is willing to protect them. It was not an easy road and the whole experience delayed his accurate diagnosis (ASD) by as much as a year as the school related anxiety became the dominant issue that year and in some ways masked what was really going on with him.

 Its great that he recovered. I shudder at the thought of lessons taught by adults in a system that participates in the dynamic. We've been set back in our progress but fortunately have a diagnosis. I can't even imagine how much more complicated this could be at the end of a year and traumatic events like your ds experienced.

 

There's a dynamic at play that Im not sure I would have been able to see without being in it. There is cut and dry shaming, pressure to accept this as normal and part of the process. Oh yes, there's lip service claiming to address things. Its a no win situation, If ds isn't hurt or traumatized such that hospital or police are involved, then the attitude is that it isn't that bad. If I pull him out before we get to that point then I am reactionary or...? It smacks of a DV situation, just in case people wonder how parents go through situations like these for months or years.

[WinsomeCreek]

I know people say this, but I think they often do not realize that it is not BECAUSE of the experience that they came out well, but IN SPITE OF it. Just like having crappy parents, or any number of childhood experiences. It definitely makes you a different person. I am just not convinced that it is formative in a positive way. I would argue that the strong person would have been EVEN BETTER had they not had to endure rounds of crap. Just my two cents:-)

 

I cannot like this enough. I believe it with all my heart.

[WinsomeCreek]

I have to go move kids around, but for a quick update: at this time there is not room at any other district school. We watch every recess now. That's 3x/day. I will do this until we have a change in setting.

[WinsomeCreek]

:blushing: I apologize for the typo in the title. I was an emotional typist. I don't know how to fix it.

 

ETA: Title edited. Thank you! 

[Slache]

You can edit the title by editing the first post.

[Love_to_Read]

I think I would be demanding a meeting with everyone...the teacher, the principal, the other parents, the school counselor, the school officer if they have one, even the superintendent of the district. I'm not sure it would be wise to meet everyone at once, as they're all going to be defensive, and I wouldn't want to start out outnumbered, but I think I would gradually escalate it with each instance. First a meeting with the teacher and principal asking what they are doing any different than last week to improve the situation, and perhaps the counselor at that time as well, to discuss the implications of ongoing bullying.  Then, when nothing happens despite "oh, we're talking to the parents, blah, blah, blah," I'd ask for a meeting that brings in both the parents and the school officer, to make sure they are clear on what's been going on and how this has escalated to where law enforcement may be necessary if the school cannot take action.  Maybe before that, I might have a meeting with the superintendent and principal to basically reiterate the school change request and tattle that the principal isn't handling things, but that would short-circuit being able to impress upon the parents what's going on.  If there is a school discipline policy that's being ignored, I'd trot that out as well in a discussion with the superintendent present.  If you aren't sure whether the school officer will be on your side, that could be a private meeting first regarding the general situation and your options, before requesting that he meet with you and the principal and parents.  And same goes for enlisting the counselor on your side...that could be a private meeting first to make sure she hears your side and concerns, before pulling her into a group meeting to discuss more formally what is or isn't being done.

 

It is not your job to be there for recess every day to ensure your child's safety.  I would absolutely do the same thing, and in fact I did a lot of intervening like that to pick up the district's slack before we pulled our child out of school, but I would make it clear that this is an unacceptable solution, a dereliction of their duties.  I'd probably also find time to coolly mention to the other parents that your son is beginning self-defense martial arts classes to help provide a mechanism for defending himself that will not get him in equal trouble, as he has been thus far told to not fight back, which has been a losing strategy thus far. Because if they aren't doing squat to teach their child to knock it off, they probably subscribe to the school of thought that your kid is a wimp and deserves it if he won't stand up for himself...so yeah, I would mention the martial arts classes with a hint of threat coupled with a heavy dose of "but we are doing our best to make sure that we comply with all rules ourselves."  Again, this is not an acceptable solution when the perpetrator is not being punished, removed, or otherwise prevented from continuing in his behavior.  Even if your child is granted a school change, there will always be another kid to pick on.  So, what are they going to do about that to make sure this kid doesn't grow up to be the kid who gets suspended in high school for fighting as a teen and arrested for assault in his twenties when he's already getting away with punching other children on a regular basis as an 8yo???  I like the idea of suggesting that he needs a behavioral evaluation and plan, including a behavioral aide to monitor and assist in his compliance, if this is going to be his baseline level of aggression despite having been addressed verbally so many times in a single quarter.

[Love_to_Read]

Yeah, if you edit the first post, it should give you the option of editing the title.  On some message boards, if that doesn't show up right away trying to do a quick edit, look for an option that says something like "Go Advanced" or "More Options" that will bring up additional editing tools including a box showing the title.

[Reefgazer]

In the future, he should be taught to immediately respond in kind to bullying. Bullying stops once you teach him not to tolerate it.

[Valley Girl]

Another thought...

 

Could you have an attorney write a letter to the school district on your behalf reiterating what happened and the school's lack of response vs. what they should be doing? Might spur them to "find" an opening at another school.

[MarkW]

In the future, he should be taught to immediately respond in kind to bullying. Bullying stops once you teach him not to tolerate it.

 

Sometimes. Sometimes it escalates. Sometimes the cops get called on your kid by the bully parents of the bully. Sometimes people call CPS for spite. Here there be dragons.

[WinsomeCreek]

This is getting a little more complicated. 

-The kid celebrated his birthday with cupcakes in class today, turning 9 (this is 2nd grade). Ds tells me his birthday is on the birthday chart as falling late winter. Weird. 

-Kids wrote responses of what they like about the STAR student. One of the girls in ds' class wrote at the end of hers (in response to bully kid's STAR poster)  "ps stop bullying me" before the teacher made her erase it, saying it wasn't nice. Bonus points to those of you who knew ds wouldn't be the only victim.

-Kids all have classroom jobs. Ds tells me he has a job to keep him separated from the other kid. Ds is the trash kid.

-Principal tells us she has people from other countries trying to get into her school, then says that the class ds is in is the best.

 

I'm leaning toward feeling that the other kid is probably under legal protections, possibly parental influence, that leads the school staff to be protecting him instead of ds. However, if this kid has serious delays then he may not have an understanding of how significantly he is hurting our kid. Ds did as we asked and yesterday he said to the kid during a quiet moment that he liked playing, but that he didn't want to be hit. He said how much it hurt him and told the kid he wouldn't play if he was hit. The other kid just walked away. Then at pickup ds said loudly, "Today was a good day. ____ didn't hit me!"

 

I think the birthday thing is beyond weird, unless they are trying to send a message, that cannot be explicitly told, regarding the degree of delays they are working with. 

 

Ugh. And while I typed that the littlest one poured out the bowl of pasta I heated for my older kid. He is covered in marinara, as is the chair and floor. He's so stinkin' cute that I can't get mad, but I sure feel defeated at the moment.

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

The bully prevention program a martial arts studio puts on advises the kids to put out their hands like a stop sign and say "Stop!  Stay away from me."  (or was it "Back off?") Anyway, the child is supposed to say it very loudly whenever the other child comes near.  No one touches (hopefully) anyone else.  

[WinsomeCreek]

I think I would be demanding a meeting with everyone...the teacher, the principal, the other parents, the school counselor, the school officer if they have one, even the superintendent of the district. I'm not sure it would be wise to meet everyone at once, as they're all going to be defensive, and I wouldn't want to start out outnumbered, but I think I would gradually escalate it with each instance. First a meeting with the teacher and principal asking what they are doing any different than last week to improve the situation, and perhaps the counselor at that time as well, to discuss the implications of ongoing bullying.  Then, when nothing happens despite "oh, we're talking to the parents, blah, blah, blah," I'd ask for a meeting that brings in both the parents and the school officer, to make sure they are clear on what's been going on and how this has escalated to where law enforcement may be necessary if the school cannot take action.  Maybe before that, I might have a meeting with the superintendent and principal to basically reiterate the school change request and tattle that the principal isn't handling things, but that would short-circuit being able to impress upon the parents what's going on.  If there is a school discipline policy that's being ignored, I'd trot that out as well in a discussion with the superintendent present.  If you aren't sure whether the school officer will be on your side, that could be a private meeting first regarding the general situation and your options, before requesting that he meet with you and the principal and parents.  And same goes for enlisting the counselor on your side...that could be a private meeting first to make sure she hears your side and concerns, before pulling her into a group meeting to discuss more formally what is or isn't being done.

 

It is not your job to be there for recess every day to ensure your child's safety.  I would absolutely do the same thing, and in fact I did a lot of intervening like that to pick up the district's slack before we pulled our child out of school, but I would make it clear that this is an unacceptable solution, a dereliction of their duties.  I'd probably also find time to coolly mention to the other parents that your son is beginning self-defense martial arts classes to help provide a mechanism for defending himself that will not get him in equal trouble, as he has been thus far told to not fight back, which has been a losing strategy thus far. Because if they aren't doing squat to teach their child to knock it off, they probably subscribe to the school of thought that your kid is a wimp and deserves it if he won't stand up for himself...so yeah, I would mention the martial arts classes with a hint of threat coupled with a heavy dose of "but we are doing our best to make sure that we comply with all rules ourselves."  Again, this is not an acceptable solution when the perpetrator is not being punished, removed, or otherwise prevented from continuing in his behavior.  Even if your child is granted a school change, there will always be another kid to pick on.  So, what are they going to do about that to make sure this kid doesn't grow up to be the kid who gets suspended in high school for fighting as a teen and arrested for assault in his twenties when he's already getting away with punching other children on a regular basis as an 8yo???  I like the idea of suggesting that he needs a behavioral evaluation and plan, including a behavioral aide to monitor and assist in his compliance, if this is going to be his baseline level of aggression despite having been addressed verbally so many times in a single quarter.

 

I appreciate that you took the time and thought to say all of this. We do have a full team meeting scheduled for next week. It was initially to accommodate ds, who is 2e, but it presents an opportunity with major players in the room to hash through what is actually happening at this school. Dh had an astute observation, that it is actually likely that the main frustrations occur in the classroom and the retribution is at the playground. However, if the bully kid is developmentally delayed it may be far simpler and he might just be struggling to function. Obviously this doesn't help ds' situation and the school can't tell us anything about the other kid (which is the way it should be). But with this in mind and the staff in the know we may be able to look at alternative approaches.

[WinsomeCreek]

In the future, he should be taught to immediately respond in kind to bullying. Bullying stops once you teach him not to tolerate it.

 

Thanks for responding, but we have spent months working on measured responses with ds. This situation is unfortunate and has really set us back, as well as lost us some credibility. In the past ds would have struck back without hesitation despite the enormous size difference of the kids. We were so proud of him for the way he handled things and did not look at this as a bullying situation until it became painfully obvious and ds was truly hurt.

[MarkW]

The staff being reluctant to deal with the aggressive, challenged kid sounds not surprising or implausible at all and really unfortunate. Have you spoken with or written to the superintendent? I would mention that you know about what the little girl wrote about the bully in class, too.

 

Find out what sort of educational advocacy is available in your area. Your district may have an educational advocate you can talk to, or you may have to hire a lawyer if they remain so stubborn and intransigent about this. A letter on legal letterhead will very likely light a fire under them, as unfortunate as it is to have to go there.

[amsunshine]

This is getting a little more complicated. 

-The kid celebrated his birthday with cupcakes in class today, turning 9 (this is 2nd grade). Ds tells me his birthday is on the birthday chart as falling late winter. Weird. 

-Kids wrote responses of what they like about the STAR student. One of the girls in ds' class wrote at the end of hers (in response to bully kid's STAR poster)  "ps stop bullying me" before the teacher made her erase it, saying it wasn't nice. Bonus points to those of you who knew ds wouldn't be the only victim.

-Kids all have classroom jobs. Ds tells me he has a job to keep him separated from the other kid. Ds is the trash kid.

-Principal tells us she has people from other countries trying to get into her school, then says that the class ds is in is the best.

 

I'm leaning toward feeling that the other kid is probably under legal protections, possibly parental influence, that leads the school staff to be protecting him instead of ds. However, if this kid has serious delays then he may not have an understanding of how significantly he is hurting our kid. Ds did as we asked and yesterday he said to the kid during a quiet moment that he liked playing, but that he didn't want to be hit. He said how much it hurt him and told the kid he wouldn't play if he was hit. The other kid just walked away. Then at pickup ds said loudly, "Today was a good day. ____ didn't hit me!"

 

I think the birthday thing is beyond weird, unless they are trying to send a message, that cannot be explicitly told, regarding the degree of delays they are working with. 

 

Ugh. And while I typed that the littlest one poured out the bowl of pasta I heated for my older kid. He is covered in marinara, as is the chair and floor. He's so stinkin' cute that I can't get mad, but I sure feel defeated at the moment.

 

This sounds strange.  9 years old in 2nd grade?  Hmmm.  There may be good cause for having an aide assigned to him, given this in combination with everything else you've mentioned....

[WinsomeCreek]

I learned that a zero tolerance policy for bullying is most often, in practice, a zero tolerance policy for bullied children. IME, it's really quite common for the hammer to fall down on the child who has been bullied when they even slightly stand up for themselves.

 

My son was hit, threatened and belittled all year. Documentation, meetings...nothing happened to the aggressive child and the small group of children who formed his posse. Finally, towards the end of the year my son grabs the boy by his sweatshirt hood and screams bloody murder. No injuries. By all accounts this is then first time my son did anything but run away and hide after trying to get help that never came from the playground "monitors". We get told he is suspended, that CPS will be called because he physically harmed another child and we need to meet with them to make a safety plan. Well. The district's OWN LAWYER reviewed the case that night and told the principal they couldn't suspend my son or call CPS because the records showed that he'd been antagonized for quite some time and there were no injuries. The principal called me late that night or early the next morning to say my son was welcome back in school. Then it tumbles out that my son was missing for the better part of a day and they didn't call me, the district or the police. It turned out he'd been hiding all day, safe but they had no way of knowing that. I was livid. Thanks but no thanks people. We didn't go back. Over the summer the principal "resigned to spend more time with her family". We were not the only ones with a similar tale to tell but we sure the heck were made to feel we were and that our son was the only child in this situation. That summer I ran into so many families who were withdrawing from that school. This was the "good school" in the gifted program in a well off neighborhood. We went out of our way to put him there. A very disheartening experience and it was the last straw for us and FT public education.

 

I keep coming back to your post, Katie. It is bothering me so much that your boy went through what he did and the school took things to such extremes in their defense of their own mistakes.

 

How on earth could they call CPS on YOU after losing your child without notifying you? How could they threaten your child for a single incident after a year of your own being a victim? That is so disturbing. I'm really glad he's doing well now.

[WinsomeCreek]

The good news of the day is both a mom brag and some homeschool righteousness. Shortly after dh and I agreed that we will pull ds to homeschool in a week if the meeting doesn't produce results, my middle schoolers came home with some school scores. One ds rocked his first AP Calculus test and the other showed dh that he only scored 12.9+ (out of 13) on his star reading test. I shrugged and dh told me I did a pretty good job homeschooling. 

 

The other boys are doing great and the school district, teachers, everyone has been flexible and fantastic where they are concerned. It gives me some hope that if we need to go to a higher level in the district, we will be listened to. I do want to assume good will on the part of the principal and teacher. Ds getting hit again is just utterly, absolutely unacceptable.

 

 

[quark]

In the future, he should be taught to immediately respond in kind to bullying. Bullying stops once you teach him not to tolerate it.

 

I understand the spirit in which this was said and I agree with you to some extent, but wish this would work for every kid. In our situation, the bullying was by a teacher's assistant, an adult. :sad: There was no way to teach my kid, who wouldn't have reacted in kind to another kid anyway, to do that to an adult.

 

[quark]

The good news of the day is both a mom brag and some homeschool righteousness. Shortly after dh and I agreed that we will pull ds to homeschool in a week if the meeting doesn't produce results, my middle schoolers came home with some school scores. One ds rocked his first AP Calculus test and the other showed dh that he only scored 12.9+ (out of 13) on his star reading test. I shrugged and dh told me I did a pretty good job homeschooling. 

 

The other boys are doing great and the school district, teachers, everyone has been flexible and fantastic where they are concerned. It gives me some hope that if we need to go to a higher level in the district, we will be listened to. I do want to assume good will on the part of the principal and teacher. Ds getting hit again is just utterly, absolutely unacceptable.

 

A ray of sunshine in an otherwise difficult month. :grouphug: to you and congrats to your older boys. I've been wanting to respond to this thread earlier but was just so aghast by what has happened and haven't had the words to express the anger I feel for what your young guy has been forced to go through. I can only offer hugs because the other things I want to offer are not WTM board friendly (a lot of intense pain to all the people who are putting him through this delivered with words you would normally never hear from my mouth). :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

[mamiof5]

So wonderful about the scores!! The best of luck in your meeting. If the other boy has development issues I hope the district can help. However, measures must be taken so he doesn't bully more students. I am very shocked at the teacher's response to the other girl though, specially after being aware of what your son has gone through. Her comment must be addressed, not shoved under the rug :(

[LucyStoner]

I keep coming back to your post, Katie. It is bothering me so much that your boy went through what he did and the school took things to such extremes in their defense of their own mistakes.

 

How on earth could they call CPS on YOU after losing your child without notifying you? How could they threaten your child for a single incident after a year of your own being a victim? That is so disturbing. I'm really glad he's doing well now.

It's been 5+ years and still at times, when I stop to think about it or look at the folder I kept with all the documentation, I can't quite believe it or how bad it was.

 

It was outrageous. It was heartbreaking. It was ridiculous.

 

Yet as we have learned from talking to other families and professionals and reading about the phenomena of how the bullying dynamic often plays out, what he experienced and the school's reaction is not unique or even all that rare.

 

And that's what is even more outrageous, heartbreaking and ridiculous.

 

I'm not really angry at the kids who bullied him so much as with the overall system that breeds, overlooks and excuses abuse and assualt of children. The adults at his school failed him. And to a degree the adults at his home, me and his father, failed him. We were so focused on trying to make him fit into the school we had idealized for him, we missed what he wasn't able to communicate. We let the school make it about how to make our son less work for them and didn't see that he needed an advocate in us. I was trying to "help" him by making him go to school and learn to fit in, right?

 

Halfway through the year, the counselor we'd hired for him was the person he told and then all the details tumbled out. When we spoke to the school, they didn't even really deny it. They knew what was going on. They did try to excuse it and even blame it on our son. You see, the other kids were just playing a game and he didn't understand and he needed to understand, right? I told the principal that no, a literal minded SIX year old did not need to understand that a playground game was "kill (his first name)". That's when I realized that no, the school was not on his side or our side or any kids side. The school was protecting itself. And that my job was not to make their job easier, it was to fight for my son and get him the hell out of there.

[LucyStoner]

In the future, he should be taught to immediately respond in kind to bullying. Bullying stops once you teach him not to tolerate it.

This is one of two movie narratives of bullying for sure, the other being that the bullied child can overcome the bullies by being nice to the bullies. Sometimes this "it stops when you fight back" narrative is true IRL. A great many times it is not true and totally doesn't play out that way.

 

Many times kids are punished for fighting back. Many times the bully is popular and well liked by staff and is savvy enough to do everything in private whereas the bullied child may not be that savvy and their fighting back is used as an excuse to punish a kid no one likes that much.

 

My son was not targeted or persistently bullied because he tolerated it (he didn't). He was bullied because the school would not protect him or discipline the children involved. He was bullied because the school bred a culture of bullying. He was bullied because his special needs made him an easy target.

[Paige]

 Many times the bully is popular and well liked by staff and is savvy enough to do everything in private whereas the bullied child may not be that savvy and their fighting back is used as an excuse to punish a kid no one likes that much.

 

My son was not targeted or persistently bullied because he tolerated it (he didn't). He was bullied because the school would not protect him or discipline the children involved. He was bullied because the school bred a culture of bullying. He was bullied because his special needs made him an easy target.

 

This was our experience as well. The bully was a popular teacher's son who was attacking kids (not my DS at first) in private. My DS repeatedly tried to intervene or tell on the bully and was not believed every time. We were told that the bully denied it and that he was a good and popular kid, plus, the school was a "NO Bully Zone, so stuff like that doesn't happen." I'm not kidding with that quote! Eventually, and predictably because no reports were kept confidential, my DS did become the target, and it was brushed off as kids being kids. The last straw was when DS was placed in the class of the bully's mother for the next year. I regret pulling DS out like we did, not because I regret homeschooling, but because I regret not pushing the issue with the school and because I know other kids were still being ignored and hurt. 

 

My son didn't tolerate it- he fought back (and had his clip pulled), he told every adult he could find (and was not believed), and he also tried all the friendly tactics and using his words (didn't work). DS was idealistic and believed that adults could be trusted and that bullies would respond to kindness and logic like they did on tv. He had a lot of trust issues afterwards.