Haiku Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Shockingly, Kim Davis is not willing to go back to jail. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orthodox6 Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 This is ridiculous. (as if it were not already) I even agree with the woman's basic viewpoint. But if I worked in government and had the ability to do so, one can believe without question that I would fire her from her job faster than one can spell the word "fire". She can work for her beliefs effectively via other means. Instead, she simply makes a spectacle of herself -- deliberately and relentlessly. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 So much for a deeply held belief. If I really believed God said "No!" to a certain thing (and I do think those things exist) there is no way someone could force me to do it. If this was really a deep belief for her, she'd quit. 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 She is behaving like a petulant child who knows she has to do what her parents tell her to do but is going to make sure that everyone around her knows how pissed off she is about it. 23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spryte Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Shockingly, Kim Davis is not willing to go back to jail. Unbelievable. She needs to resign. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Normally I like to comment only on the political, not religious aspect of it. But man. "I want the whole world to know ... If any [deputy clerk] feels that they must issue an unauthorized license to avoid being thrown in jail, I understand their tough choice, and I will take no action against them. However, any unauthorized license that they issue will not have my name, my title or my authority on it. Instead, the license will state that they are issued pursuant to a federal court order." She really needs to reread the New Testament. I cannot imagine any interpretation of Jesus that would approve of her actions. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaffeineDiary Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Just curious... Is there a provision for people who only want a church marriage and not a legal one? That would mean the church did not have to act as an agent of the state, but also the couple who didn't want a state-sanctioned marriage wouldn't be forced to get one. Some people have principles against any state involvement for the church and themselves as well. Sure, that's called "Being single." (less snarkily, many states have provisions for "common-law marriages".) My position on this is pretty simple: Churches have no business being involved in marriage, since marriage is a fundamental human activity that existed long before religions came along and tried to ruin it. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idnib Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Sure, that's called "Being single." (less snarkily, many states have provisions for "common-law marriages".) My position on this is pretty simple: Churches have no business being involved in marriage, since marriage is a fundamental human activity that existed long before religions came along and tried to ruin it. I clarified later saying I was asking about Faith's church specifically. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Unbelievable. She needs to resign.Resigning means giving up her $80k a year plus benefits package. And of course her God wouldn't want her to do that, since she doesn't want to do that. It's not about the will of God for Kim. It's about the will of Kim. She's not willing to do anymore than spend 4 nights in jail for her beliefs. Someone compared her to Nelson Mandela and I was like "Mandela didn't give up for TWENTY SEVEN STRAIGHT YEARS". 4 nights =\= 27 years. Her supporters are suffering from delusions of grandeur. 20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zydruna Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 http://www.wave3.com/story/30022999/the-latest-in-gay-marriage-case-new-focus-on-deputy-clerk Kudos to the deputy clerk! I am glad that people are starting to be more visibly supportive of him. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravin Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Shockingly, Kim Davis is not willing to go back to jail. I admire Brian Mason's ability to remain calm in the face of all the insanity, while the media hovers and his boss hides in her office. 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravin Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Resigning means giving up her $80k a year plus benefits package. And of course her God wouldn't want her to do that, since she doesn't want to do that. It's not about the will of God for Kim. It's about the will of Kim. She's not willing to do anymore than spend 4 nights in jail for her beliefs. Someone compared her to Nelson Mandela and I was like "Mandela didn't give up for TWENTY SEVEN STRAIGHT YEARS". 4 nights =\= 27 years. Her supporters are suffering from delusions of grandeur. I'm suddenly reminded of what Jesus said about rich men getting in to heaven. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 I wonder if she's going to cause problems when the solemnized, justice of the peace- or minister-signed licenses are returned to the office for recording. Hopefully it goes to a separate office and bypasses her. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idnib Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 I guess she's finally figured out she can't keep other people from doing their jobs. Does that solve the contempt issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaffeineDiary Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Oh good, someone got him bourbon balls. Those are delicious. http://www.rebeccaruth.com 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam in CT Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Resigning means giving up her $80k a year plus benefits package. And of course her God wouldn't want her to do that, since she doesn't want to do that. It's not about the will of God for Kim. It's about the will of Kim. She's not willing to do anymore than spend 4 nights in jail for her beliefs. Someone compared her to Nelson Mandela and I was like "Mandela didn't give up for TWENTY SEVEN STRAIGHT YEARS". 4 nights =\= 27 years. Her supporters are suffering from delusions of grandeur. It does seem odd that she of all people has emerged as the poster child for the opposition movement. Surely there are better candidates out there for the role. There was at least one SSM couple who was granted a license today by one of the deputies without interference; and the KY governor and Attorney General both issued statements that in their views the deputy-issued licenses will be considered valid despite Davis' claim that they are not. So it may, from a legal perspective, have run its course. (emoji for crossed fingers, please...) 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Oh good, someone got him bourbon balls. Those are delicious. http://www.rebeccaruth.com I feel like anyone who has managed to read this whole thread deserves a bourbon ball. Or three. :P 23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orthodox6 Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Resigning means giving up her $80k a year plus benefits package. And of course her God wouldn't want her to do that, since she doesn't want to do that. It's not about the will of God for Kim. It's about the will of Kim. She's not willing to do anymore than spend 4 nights in jail for her beliefs. Someone compared her to Nelson Mandela and I was like "Mandela didn't give up for TWENTY SEVEN STRAIGHT YEARS". 4 nights =\= 27 years. Her supporters are suffering from delusions of grandeur. If you were to remove that gratuitous sentence, I would back all the rest of your post. I agree with you that she likely is too timid to suffer monetarily for her position. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 If you were to remove that gratuitous sentence, I would back all the rest of your post. I agree with you that she likely is too timid to suffer monetarily for her position. I think that Kim Davis is dressing her will, wishes, whims and wants up as the will of God. I think that's problematic from all angles. It's something a lot of people do. "God called me to...(insert whatever it is the person wanted to do anyways)". It's a really common problem. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommy22alyns Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 She needs to just resign. It's probably apparent to most on the board how I feel about this issue, but I have thought many times about this, and if I was in her position, I would resign. She says she doesn't want the spotlight. She's not acting in accordance with those words. Like I said before, it's just not a good look. Please stop. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeacherZee Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 I feel like anyone who has managed to read this whole thread deserves a bourbon ball. Or three. :P I had a salted caramel pecan brownie earlier so I'm good. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 I'm suddenly reminded of what Jesus said about rich men getting in to heaven. Yeah. "But Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.â€" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 I had a salted caramel pecan brownie earlier so I'm good. #needsbourbon 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 The lawyer of the deputy who has been signing licenses says she has violated the judge's order not to interfere by removing her name and the county name from the forms. (I thought her name had already been removed but there are so many conflicting reports I don't know which is correct.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 sigh 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateReignRemix Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 And for anyone who thinks there aren't those who do "hate" homosexuals, I present to you: http://www.advocate.com/politics/2015/9/18/north-carolina-mayoral-candidate-wants-eradicate-gays-cites-kim-davis "In my administration I would do just like Mrs. Davis did in Kentucky," Holmes told the Kings Mountain Herald and Charlotte TV station WJZY. "If you elect me, I’ll uphold the law of the state of North Carolina. I would get the D.A. to swear out a warrant on any man who says he’s gay. Sodomy is a crime, a felony in the state of North Carolina." "What’s wrong with eradicating homosexuals?" Holmes told the newspaper. 'We should jail them, throw them all in jail!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 And for anyone who thinks there aren't those who do "hate" homosexuals, I present to you: http://www.advocate.com/politics/2015/9/18/north-carolina-mayoral-candidate-wants-eradicate-gays-cites-kim-davis "In my administration I would do just like Mrs. Davis did in Kentucky," Holmes told the Kings Mountain Herald and Charlotte TV station WJZY. "If you elect me, I’ll uphold the law of the state of North Carolina. I would get the D.A. to swear out a warrant on any man who says he’s gay. Sodomy is a crime, a felony in the state of North Carolina." "What’s wrong with eradicating homosexuals?" Holmes told the newspaper. 'We should jail them, throw them all in jail!" He's not exactly mentally healthy. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melmichigan Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 The lawyer of the deputy who has been signing licenses says she has violated the judge's order not to interfere by removing her name and the county name from the forms. (I thought her name had already been removed but there are so many conflicting reports I don't know which is correct.) According to this article she has removed more than just her name since being let out of jail. While in jail the deputy clerk just typed Rowan County where Kim Davis's name would go, since being released she has actually altered the forms. Here is a picture of the new changes. (In the past I linked a picture of one issued while she was in jail.) A better explanation into the legalities is here. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 According to this article she has removed more than just her name since being let out of jail. While in jail the deputy clerk just typed Rowan County where Kim Davis's name would go, since being released she has actually altered the forms. Here is a picture of the new changes. (In the past I linked a picture of one issued while she was in jail.) A better explanation into the legalities is here. And from what I read in another article, she's not even allowing Brian Mason to sign the licenses as a deputy clerk, but is forcing him to sign as a public notary, thus further illegitimizing them. Is anyone really delusional enough to still think this is about her "religious freedom"? She's gotten it and then some, yet she's still acting like a pissed off child. Why? Because her fame was on its last minute, and she wanted more. 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacia Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 And from what I read in another article, she's not even allowing Brian Mason to sign the licenses as a deputy clerk, but is forcing him to sign as a public notary, thus further illegitimizing them. If that is really the case, I would think that would put her in contempt of the judge's orders. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 If that is really the case, I would think that would put her in contempt of the judge's orders. It really is the case. If you look at the picture of the license in one of the linked articles, it says "notary public" next to his name where it should say that he's a deputy clerk. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melmichigan Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 And from what I read in another article, she's not even allowing Brian Mason to sign the licenses as a deputy clerk, but is forcing him to sign as a public notary, thus further illegitimizing them. Is anyone really delusional enough to still think this is about her "religious freedom"? She's gotten it and then some, yet she's still acting like a pissed off child. Why? Because her fame was on its last minute, and she wanted more. Yes, I read that in the motion before the court, and it's what I see on the document dated 9/14/2015. It has also been mentioned in the media that the lawyers added a footnote to the motion regarding class action, but I haven't been able to verify that with original documents. She's tried to completely remove the clerks office from the paperwork, but from what I've read of Kentucky law she cannot change the form itself. So it wasn't an issue when they just left her name off, but it might be a huge issue not that she's changing the documents themselves, in essence altering public records. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 #needsbourbon I have wine. Oh, no I don't. It's gone, sorry. :P 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacia Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 I don't know if this article was already linked or not, but I'll post it just in case. The first part of the article (posted by Reuters, written by Steve Bittenbender) says... In a filing with the federal judge overseeing a lawsuit against Rowan County Clerk Kim Davis for not issuing marriage licenses, the attorney for deputy clerk Brian Mason said he has "some substantial questions" about the new licenses Davis altered and gave him to issue after she returned to work on Monday. He is concerned the licenses do not mention the name of the county. Davis has directed him to sign the licenses as a notary public, instead of as a deputy county clerk, Mason's attorney, Richard Hughes, said in the documents. So it sounds like a lawyer (who represents the clerk who is actually issuing marriage licenses) is putting the info in front of the judge as to how much the documents have changed. ETA: Sorry. My post is a repeat of the one a few before this. I should have read the linked articles first. :blushing: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melmichigan Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 This is a second article that mentions a brief requesting class-action status. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldberry Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 "I'm being forced to disobey God".... Look lady, people have DIED rather than do what they considered disobeying God. And yet stepping down from a job is too much for her? No wonder no one can take her seriously. 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam in CT Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 The newest round of court documents were just released. Sigh. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoobie Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 And a cop who was entering the home on a domestic violence call, from what I'm reading. I'm really having trouble getting my brain around this one. From what I can see, the cops were called because a guy is involved in some kind of domestic abuse situation with his partner. The guy tries to tell the cop not to come in, the cop comes in anyway because domestic abuse, the guy assaults the cop... and people are defending the abuser? Well sure because the guy wasn't a young black person. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idnib Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 The newest round of court documents were just released. Sigh. Reading the documents, it sounds very likely she could end up back in jail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomatHWTK Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 What does it mean to place the county clerk's office into receivership? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonFaerie Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Reading the documents, it sounds very likely she could end up back in jail. One can only hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoobie Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 What does it mean to place the county clerk's office into receivership? Control would be removed from that office and placed elsewhere. You may have seen this is the news recently-ish with police departments where an entire city PD is dissolved and jurisdiction placed with another department. Usually seen in the private sector in bankruptcy cases. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomatHWTK Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 I think this document does a pretty good job explaining. A receiver is often used in bankruptcy, so finding references to other forms was more difficult. Basically, the court will appoint someone to oversee and run the Clerk's office to ensure compliance with federal law. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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