To push or back off. Opinions please

[momof4babes]

My youngest son is going to be 6 at the end of November. He is working on explode the code book one, and absolutely hates to write words. He can write all his letters (upper, and lower), and numbers with no reversals. He knows all his letter sounds, and can read the ETC book one words no problem.

 

If I give him endless pages of addition and subtraction questions, he will happily write the numbers. When it comes to the lessons that require writing as opposed to circling letters, it's like pulling teeth. When he does write, it fairly large and messy, but legible. There is the occasional thing that will spark his interest to write, like making a grocery list this morning.

He wrote about 4 items, then lost interest.

 

I'm considering using online ETC for him, but I'm worried about him not getting the writing.

Do I back off in the writing for now, or contine to push him?

[OneStepAtATime]

Can you keep it to a very small amount each day, but maybe things that do interest him?  Maybe a small amount of trace work or a little bit of copywork with a subject he likes?  That way he is getting practice and building up muscle memory but it is not so overwhelming as to make him hate writing?  He may need more time to develop...

 

I know a LOT of 5 year olds, especially boys, that do not like writing.  Eye hand coordination can be slower to develop in some kids.  Writing can honestly be quite hard for them, even if they can do it when they concentrate and have interest.

[underthebridge]

I would back off. The whole point of learning to read and write is to enjoy reading stories and to communicate and create your own. I would be afraid of creating negative feelings toward both. I would continue to read aloud and have him do activities that will continue to prepare him for writing such as Hama beads, drawing, clay work, coloring. If you are homeschooling you have the luxury of waiting until your child is ready to write with enthusiasm.

[Ellie]

My youngest son is going to be 6 at the end of November. He is working on explode the code book one, and absolutely hates to write words. He can write all his letters (upper, and lower), and numbers with no reversals. He knows all his letter sounds, and can read the ETC book one words no problem.

 

If I give him endless pages of addition and subtraction questions, he will happily write the numbers. When it comes to the lessons that require writing as opposed to circling letters, it's like pulling teeth. When he does write, it fairly large and messy, but legible. There is the occasional thing that will spark his interest to write, like making a grocery list this morning.

He wrote about 4 items, then lost interest.

 

I'm considering using online ETC for him, but I'm worried about him not getting the writing.

Do I back off in the writing for now, or contine to push him?

 

Back off. He's barely 5 1/2. Of course it's like pulling teeth to get him to write. He's just barely 5. Back way off.

[justasque]

My youngest son is going to be 6 at the end of November. He is working on explode the code book one, and absolutely hates to write words. He can write all his letters (upper, and lower), and numbers with no reversals. He knows all his letter sounds, and can read the ETC book one words no problem.

 

If I give him endless pages of addition and subtraction questions, he will happily write the numbers. When it comes to the lessons that require writing as opposed to circling letters, it's like pulling teeth. When he does write, it fairly large and messy, but legible. There is the occasional thing that will spark his interest to write, like making a grocery list this morning.

He wrote about 4 items, then lost interest.

 

I'm considering using online ETC for him, but I'm worried about him not getting the writing.

Do I back off in the writing for now, or contine to push him?

 

Writing words involves a lot of different things going on at once.  Remembering how to form the letters, remembering how to spell the word(s), remembering what you wanted to say.  Consider:

--More non-writing work on small motor skills. Ideally, this would come through play or other non-school-y activities.

--More opportunities to use a pencil or other writing implement in other ways.  We love Ed Emberly's Make-A-World for learning to draw little doodles of people, vehicles, etc.  Mazes and dot-to-dots are also fun.  (Both can get quite complex if you seek out more advanced versions.)  Again, this is best done because it appeals, rather than because it is required.  

--More writing where he doesn't have to do all the steps at once - like tracing letters, having you write down what he wants to write so he can copy it, etc.  By "more writing", I mean adjusting the balance so that some of his writing includes all the steps, and some does not.  For example, if he's doing a workbook that requires him to write "dog", you can ask him what he wants to write (he'd say "dog"), how he thinks dog is spelled ("d-o-g"), then you can write it so he can copy it into the workbook.  He's still doing the work, but you are helping him break it down so the steps are manageable.

 

 

[RKWAcademy]

My son just turned 6.  I get quite a bit of push-back from him if I make him write more than his name or ABCs.  I've never used ETC so I don't know how much writing it contains, but I wouldn't push the issue write now.  My kid likes math so numbers are not a big deal, either.  Mine do like to write more if they get to use dry erase markers. 

 

I have boy/girl twins that are just now 6, and there is a huge difference between the two in fine motor skills.  My daughter will happily draw and write all day.  I just bought Draw Write Now.  I bought it primarily for my daughter because she loves art but I was surprised that my son loved it and even copied a sentence from it (mainly he did the sentence because his sister did and he had to keep up with her).  But, it was completely voluntary to go along with a picture he was interested in. Of course, he hasn't yet done a second lesson, so who knows?

 

For a boy, I'd back off.

[Garga]

Back off.

 

I pushed my first and learned to back off for my 2nd.

[momof4babes]

Thanks for all the replies, and suggestions.

 

My older son 8 is most likely dyslexic, and my 5 year old shows no signs of it. I'm worried about not challenging him enough sometimes. It's been a long, slow, process with my older son.

 

My gut was telling me to back off, but it's hard not to get caught up with what public school standards say he "should" be doing. With our age cut offs here, he would be going into grade 1 in the fall.

[rebbyribs]

Will he write in different ways?  I'd try sidewalk chalk or window markers, writing with a stick in the sandbox, using a MagnaDoodle or something along those lines, if he'd enjoy any of that.  I guess I'd back off on the ETC workbooks, but maybe go through the concepts orally and then have him do a bit of writing to practice.  Not quite push, but not back off either - just try changing things up a little but keep working toward the same goals.

[Ellie]

 

My gut was telling me to back off, but it's hard not to get caught up with what public school standards say he "should" be doing. With our age cut offs here, he would be going into grade 1 in the fall.

 

Children should be learning to read in first grade, not in kindergarten, so you're still good. :-)

 

Public schools in general do a bad job of teaching children to read, so they think if they start pushing in kindergarten they'll have better results...but they don't. Ask the many parents who brought their children home from public schools because the dc were *not* reading well, or who brought them home thinking their literacy skills were good only to find out that the dc were woefully illiterate.

[Arcadia]

My gut was telling me to back off, but it's hard not to get caught up with what public school standards say he "should" be doing. With our age cut offs here, he would be going into grade 1 in the fall.

I have two December born boys so young for their grade level. Your son can write his letters but doesn't wish to. It could be writing fatigue which my oldest had and his public school teachers didn't force him to write more than he was willing.

 

My oldest did use the white board occasionally but both of us didn't like the smell. We have hypersensitive noses unfortunately. We did spelling in the sand at the park at that age.

[Tsuga]

My youngest son is going to be 6 at the end of November. He is working on explode the code book one, and absolutely hates to write words. He can write all his letters (upper, and lower), and numbers with no reversals. He knows all his letter sounds, and can read the ETC book one words no problem.

 

If I give him endless pages of addition and subtraction questions, he will happily write the numbers. When it comes to the lessons that require writing as opposed to circling letters, it's like pulling teeth. When he does write, it fairly large and messy, but legible. There is the occasional thing that will spark his interest to write, like making a grocery list this morning.

He wrote about 4 items, then lost interest.

 

I'm considering using online ETC for him, but I'm worried about him not getting the writing.

Do I back off in the writing for now, or contine to push him?

 

When my daughter, a late October 6 in K, was not reading, I backed off. I committed to backing off until first grade. I prepared her for CVC words in 1st grade public school. She, too, hated, hated writing and said reading made her eyes hurt but no diagnosed issues though I did take her in once.

 

Luckily for me she didn't need to enter public 1st until nearly seven. When she did, she blossomed. She's far, far ahead now and does great at writing.

 

She needed me to wait.

[Jess4879]

My youngest will be 6 in June and he will write, but his letters are still very wobbily and crooked.  He loves to write his name, so he does that a lot...on everything...including things that belong to his sisters. LOL  Otherwise though, we don't have him write at this point.  I do have a tin of salt that he "writes" in with his finger.  All of my kids loved writing in salt! We've also used a ziplock with paint as a writing surface, building letters with playdough, etc.  There is lots of time for him to learn the skill of writing.  I don't want to make it an uncomfortable exercise that will have him hating it.

[Ellyndria]

I tried ETC1 with my son around that age too, and it did NOT go well.  It was too much writing.  He had enjoyed the beginning books (Get Ready, Get Set, and Go for the Code) so I had thought he'd like ETC1 too.  Nope.  So I dropped it.  He didn't really need it anyway.  He was getting handwriting practice through HWT, so I let that be his only writing, aside from the occasional math page.

 

(FWIW, he still doesn't like writing.  I guess some things never change.  But as he's starting 5th grade in the fall, it's different now.  But that's another story.)

[calihil]

He's only 5.5. In most places he'd still be in Pre-K. I wouldn't worry about it at all, don't push him.

[Maela]

We started Explode the Code very young, but I let them skip a lot of the writing parts because they weren't ready for that yet.

[wintermom]

ETC have 3 books for younger children, which my dc really enjoyed: Get Ready -, Get Set - and Go for the Code.

 

We also did writing in other mediums, like sand or rice, and the medium they loved the best was shaving cream on a cookie sheet. 

 

I also made sure that I didn't have the child doing ETC, handwriting, and other writing work on the same day. at age 4 - 6 they would "write" a maximum of 10 minutes a day.

[AdventuresinHomeschooling]

Writing is a different developmental step than reading. I would try to do more oral phonics with him and phonics games, etc. to help develop those fine motor skills, try drawing. It is the same type of muscular coordination, and it might be something he is more inclined to do. If you want to finish a program that has written responses, you could have him answer some orally.

 

Fwiw, my kindergartener is more advanced in writing skills than some of his peers, and even he does not usually have to write more than one word in any of his curricula except for alphabet handwriting pages.

[athomeontheprairie]

I didn't read all the answers so maybe this was covered, but could you have him write at a whiteboard? Standing up? using those gross motor skills and not small motors?

[Tsuga]

Honestly, my kids did tree climbing, bike riding, swinging, monkey bars, and mud pies for gross motor skills.

 

I really do not think that if a child is not seven, provided he has exposure to reading, that it's necessary or helpful to keep him at a whiteboard all that time. Gross and fine motor skills can be well developed through outdoor play. They need those muscles. Lego, just building, and marble tracks help more with fine motor control, as do things like move their hands through dirt. Digging holes. Painting a model train. That kind of thing will develop motor skills just fine and it is fun.

 

 

[Farrar]

OP, please note that ETC Online will not solve this problem. Instead of writing, he'll have to type. And it will be timed. Given what you've said, I seriously doubt that he'll enjoy it. And unlike the ETC workbooks where you can determine if he's mastered something and let him move on, the computer is the arbiter if you do ETC Online and you cannot change it easily.

 

The ETC series is really meant for kids who are a little older. A lot of people use it with this age so it's not wrong to do so, but I think you just have to take ETC's somewhat writing heavy approach into account and go slower or alter the program a little. Or... change. At the time, I liked ETC. Now that we're down the road from it by a few years, I don't know that it was really a great program. I agree with the general advice to back off a little - he's not even 6 quite yet! - but I'd say that you might also just want to try something different. Perhaps something more multisensory like AAR or LoE. Or something more from a book like Reading Reflex. Or just focus on practicing with BOB books or Nora Gaydos readers or something like Progressive Phonics for a little while. And work on the letters separately. I think it's good to have them mostly pretty separate at this stage. Play around with writing in sand, in shaving cream, sandpaper letters, etc. And do more coloring. I know you say he's really got it down, but these activities are still needed for most kids this age to keep working on building up those small motor skills and that muscle memory for writing. Plus, most littles find them fun.

[SereneHome]

OMG, I am going to disagree with Farrar!!!  (And you guys have no idea how grateful I am to this woman for all her help, so this is hard!!!)

 

I actually think ETC is a great solution for him

 

I started my oldest on ETC when he was 5.  We did the on-line version for 3 reasons. 

1.  He found the books incredibly boring

2.  English is not my native language and I was worried that he won't hear the distinguish between various vowels and other sounds

3.  And this kind goes along with OP - I didn't want to combine reading and writing.

 

As a matter of fact, for awhile (a few months), we didn't do any "school" except ETC on line.  I didn't know what all those books are suppose to take years, so he did 6 books in less than a year, and then I started concentrating more on his writing.  And once he turned 6 he was ready for WWE1.

 

To Farrar's point about typing and timed typing.  My kids LOVED typing.  And I never did "timed" lessons.  I explained to them that the speed of typing has nothing to do with their ability to read and getting "airplanes" doesn't mean they are great readers.

 

I am on my second kid with ETC on-line and if I could, I would do commercials for them, bc it worked so well for us. 

 

ETA:  We did HWOT for writing, the Orange Book.  It worked very well.

[Farrar]

OMG, I am going to disagree with Farrar!!!  (And you guys have no idea how grateful I am to this woman for all her help, so this is hard!!!)

 

I actually think ETC is a great solution for him

 

I started my oldest on ETC when he was 5.  We did the on-line version for 3 reasons. 

1.  He found the books incredibly boring

2.  English is not my native language and I was worried that he won't hear the distinguish between various vowels and other sounds

3.  And this kind goes along with OP - I didn't want to combine reading and writing.

 

As a matter of fact, for awhile (a few months), we didn't do any "school" except ETC on line.  I didn't know what all those books are suppose to take years, so he did 6 books in less than a year, and then I started concentrating more on his writing.  And once he turned 6 he was ready for WWE1.

 

To Farrar's point about typing and timed typing.  My kids LOVED typing.  And I never did "timed" lessons.  I explained to them that the speed of typing has nothing to do with their ability to read and getting "airplanes" doesn't mean they are great readers.

 

I am on my second kid with ETC on-line and if I could, I would do commercials for them, bc it worked so well for us. 

 

ETA:  We did HWOT for writing, the Orange Book.  It worked very well.

 

I know you love it. :D Perhaps they've changed it now. When we tried it, the timed aspect could not be turned off. I found that I couldn't pass it with enough of the right bug (I can't remember which ones were the you did the best bugs) to move on from one level to the next. Not the kids, ME. I wasn't fast enough. I type about 80wpm. I mean, seriously.

 

[Reefgazer]

At his age, I would back off or keep the writing to a very small amount.  I would not introduce online learning at such a young age at all.

My youngest son is going to be 6 at the end of November. He is working on explode the code book one, and absolutely hates to write words. He can write all his letters (upper, and lower), and numbers with no reversals. He knows all his letter sounds, and can read the ETC book one words no problem.

If I give him endless pages of addition and subtraction questions, he will happily write the numbers. When it comes to the lessons that require writing as opposed to circling letters, it's like pulling teeth. When he does write, it fairly large and messy, but legible. There is the occasional thing that will spark his interest to write, like making a grocery list this morning.
He wrote about 4 items, then lost interest.

I'm considering using online ETC for him, but I'm worried about him not getting the writing.
Do I back off in the writing for now, or contine to push him?

 

[SeaConquest]

We dropped ETC completely once my then 5 year old took off with reading. It just seemed like busywork. I would just read (we also liked Progressive Phonics, the Nora Gaydos books, and the AAR readers) and throw in some short copywork.

[Targhee]

My youngest son is going to be 6 at the end of November. He is working on explode the code book one, and absolutely hates to write words. He can write all his letters (upper, and lower), and numbers with no reversals. He knows all his letter sounds, and can read the ETC book one words no problem.

 

If I give him endless pages of addition and subtraction questions, he will happily write the numbers. When it comes to the lessons that require writing as opposed to circling letters, it's like pulling teeth. When he does write, it fairly large and messy, but legible. There is the occasional thing that will spark his interest to write, like making a grocery list this morning.

He wrote about 4 items, then lost interest.

 

I'm considering using online ETC for him, but I'm worried about him not getting the writing.

Do I back off in the writing for now, or contine to push him?

My opinion: Work on handwriting. I think HWOT would be particularly beneficial. If you still feel ETC is what you want to do you could have him do one or two words in the "Write" pages each day (eg day one do a "Say it" page and two words from a "Write it" page, day two do a "Read and Circle" page and two more words from the "Write it" page, etc).

 

I like ETC, and my kids have liked it. They did not like ETC online, at all. Neither did I.

[FairProspects]

How does he do with other fine motor activities? Does he have a proper pencil grip? Can he do activities like using tweezers to move small objects between bowls? How about writing or coloring with chalk or crayon rocks?

 

I wouldn't be so concerned that he isn't writing a ton at his age, but as the mother of a kid with a fine motor delay, it is important to build those fine motor skills in some way - whether continuing to practice with small amounts of handwriting or other fine motor activities.

[AndyJoy]

My boy is just a bit older than yours and I don't expect much in the way of writing yet. I dont want to burn him out before he's technically even Kindergarten age! I have to remind myself that one of the reasons I'm homeschooling is so that he won't have an impatient teacher forcing one-size-fits-all on him :)

 

He writes single letters and numbers happily and gets more pencil practice since he enjoys dot-to-dots, mazes, stencils, and tracing so I'm sticking with that for now.

[Tsuga]

A collection, like a coin collection or anything that is stored in small places, is great for fine motor skills, as is clay.

[momof4babes]

Thanks everyone. He's my first child who has never been to school, and I guess I'm nervous that I'm not doing enough with him.

 

Kindergarten is so academic here that it's hard to not get caught up on the "should be"

I'm going to back off on the writing with him.

[JRmommy]

Just wanted to add that my son didn't enjoy writing at that age either. It was like pulling teeth. So, I backed WAY off. We did everything orally or I transcribed for him. It wasn't until he was about 7 years old that he had the stamina to write. Then at 8 years old, when we started using Bravewriter's Partnership in Writing, his writing soared. I think it is developmental. The lack of writing won't hinder reading at all! My son was a VERY early reader (learning to read CVC words just prior to his 3rd birthday on his own). The two require very different skills.

[Incognito]

I have had one of those kids myself, but they were about a year older in ETC.

 

For us, if I could go back in time and redo life, I'd do a million and one hands on OT type things to develop hand strength in that child.  Those things are fun and aren't going to be a detriment to have done, but could make a really positive difference.  

 

FWIW, this was my first, so I pushed harder on writing with kid #2 (and we did systematic writing instruction all together both of them) and I am glad of that.  

 

Also, FWIW, this is part of a sort of dyslexia/dysgraphia thing in our case, so while time can be helpful, it isn't a cure-all for everyone.

 

[Spy Car]

nm

[birchbark]

My counsel for boys: Do all academics orally until age 8. Look at Ray's Primary Arithmetic or The Verbal Math Lesson for oral math.

 

Work on fine motor skills with coloring or "fun stuff."

 

[Lang Syne Boardie]

My counsel for boys: Do all academics orally until age 8. Look at Ray's Primary Arithmetic or The Verbal Math Lesson for oral math.

 

Work on fine motor skills with coloring or "fun stuff."

 

Surely you know that this is not appropriate for all boys just because they are boys!

[ElizabethB]

You can play my phonics concentration game for fun practice.

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Phonics/concentrationgam.html

 

Also, with young children, I like to get at least 2 sets of magnetic letters, about $1 at a Dollar or big box store. Have them run back and forth to a box of letters and see how many words they can build in 2 minutes or just in place on a cookie sheet in one minute.