Insomniac husband impacting everything

[TianXiaXueXiao]

Hello Hive! I am hoping someone who's btdt can offer some sage advice on the issue I'm having with dh and his insomnia. Here's the background:

 

We moved to a new state last summer for a new job for dh. Ever since we moved here, he's been battling insomnia and has had to call in sick several times due to sleeplessness.

 

He is currently seeing a therapist because it seems to be performance anxiety related insomnia as he sleeps fine on weekends and holidays, but not work nights.

 

He says he likes his job and he keeps getting raises and positive feedback at work. This is his first senior level position with a number of reports and his first city government job.

 

He has to wake up earlier for this job than his prior jobs because we are relying on mass transit for him to get to work since we only have 1 car.

 

A couple months ago he got an rx for Ativan for a back up sleep aid to be used sparingly when the trazidone he was previously prescribed doesn't cut it.

 

It got to the point where he could only sleep on weeknights if he took the ativan as the trazidone had become completely ineffective. He ran out of ativan about 7 weeks ago and I insisted that he pursue counseling for the anxiety instead of treating symptoms with tranquilizers. He agreed and went back to the trazidone only and found a good therapist. Things improved for about 5 weeks, but have taken a serious nose dive in the past 2 weeks. He doesn't really share much about the ground he's covering in therapy and it doesn't seem like he has any homework to practice from the therapist.

 

After calling in sick for the 3rd time in 2 weeks this morning, he decided that he just needs to go back on ativan. I'm opposed to this solution because of how dependence forming ativan is and because it makes him a zombie at home. He takes it at 8pm and by 8:30 he is just high and in his own world, preventing him from connecting with me or the kids. He is able to sleep and he feels great in the morning and throughout the day at work, but by the time he gets home he is tired and irritable and anxious about sleep. I feel like I'm losing the man I love to this problem. His work loves him, but we are getting the short end of the stick, so the kids and I are learning to live without him. We haven't slept in the same bed (except for weekends) for months because he can't sleep with anyone else in the room. I feel really lonely and isolated. He is so different now due to sleep deprivation without the ativan that I know he needs something! He is usually pretty sentimental and thoughtful around mother's day but he did absolutely nothing for me yesterday and didn't even have the capacity to recognize that he did nothing even though my daughter kept asking what the plan was all day. He was just consumed with anxiety about how he was going to sleep.

 

I'm having a heck of a time being compassionate toward him since I feel like I'm the one getting the shaft and because I've lived with chronic insomnia all my life and I guess I've just always powered through without relying on drugs or calling in sick.

 

It's diminishing the esteem I have for him and I'm feeling very insecure about our marriage and future finances.

 

How can I help dh overcome this and how can I adjust my own attitude to benefit the family during this difficult time?

 

Thanks!

[SparklyUnicorn]

That is a tough one.  But I would bet a lot of people who work all day come home tired and aren't so fun and bubbly.  My husband comes home in an ok mood and he does talk a little, etc.  But he is tired.  By 8:30 he dozes on the couch.  He has a relatively low stress job.  He also doesn't have insomnia.

 

So I don't know what to say really.  That doesn't sound pleasant for you, but I am not sure what he could be doing differently.   Could he maybe take the meds a little bit later than 8? 

[Guest]

I'm sorry you are facing this.  It's impacting so many areas of your life.  

I don't know what kind of therapy your dh is in and it is not like I am some big expert on therapies anyway, but I do know that I have derived benefit from neurotherapy (BrainPaint was the tool my counselor used) for anxiety reduction; it also helped my insomnia (which could be cause/effect but I don't know which direction...).  Another friend who had this pairing also benefited from this therapy.  

 

Perhaps this would be something to look into.  If you want more details, PM me.  :0)  

[TianXiaXueXiao]

That is a tough one. But I would bet a lot of people who work all day come home tired and aren't so fun and bubbly. My husband comes home in an ok mood and he does talk a little, etc. But he is tired. By 8:30 he dozes on the couch. He has a relatively low stress job. He also doesn't have insomnia.

 

So I don't know what to say really. That doesn't sound pleasant for you, but I am not sure what he could be doing differently. Could he maybe take the meds a little bit later than 8?

I don't need him to be fun and bubbly, I just need him to be present.

[Anne in CA]

I do think there is a bigger problem somewhere. The fact that he is not sharing what is going on in therapy signifies that he has issues he can't/ wont discuss that have cropped up with the new job. Something about the new job may be triggering something deeply painful for him. I don't see why a muscle relaxer can't put him to sleep for simple insomnia and they are non habit forming. You need to go with him to the doctor and ask your hard questions.

[NorthwestMom]

Does a psychiatrist prescribe his meds, or a family doctor? I recommend seeing a psychiatrist for a possible med adjustment. It sound like anxiety to me too. My DH has anxiety and he has to be medicated correctly to benefit from talk therapy - he can't absorb and process the work if his anxiety is too high. Does that make sense?  Good luck to you both.

 

 

[NorthwestMom]

Also adding - I have requested and gone to one appointment with DH and his therapist to express my concerns about his functioning. The therapist can't work with what she doesn't know about. Your DH may be minimizing his functioning issues at home and just talking about what is going on at work.

[TianXiaXueXiao]

Thanks everyone for your responses. I will pm you later today PJ!

 

I asked dh if he was willing to see a psychiatrist this morning and he didn't say one way or the other. He said he was just going to go to the clinic by his work for the ativan rx.

 

As for talking, dh has never been very open with me about what he has discussed in therapy. He interprets doctor patient privilege differently than i do. This isn't new, but I am going to request a joint session with the therapist.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Is he seeing a therapist or a psychiatrist?  Since meds are involved I'm assuming this is a psychiatrist?  Anyway, you can call the doctor's office and tell the doctor what is going on with your dh.  In fact I think it would be very important for the doctor to know.  

[SparklyUnicorn]

I don't need him to be fun and bubbly, I just need him to be present.

 

I get that.  My husband is often too tired to be all that present honestly.

 

But it does sound like your situation is much more extreme. 

 

Sorry.

[kroe1]

Hugs. I do not have any answers, but I understand your frustration and disappointment. I also have insomnia and have always persevered. Sometimes, it even comes in handy. I cannot imagine calling in sick for tiredness. I would be disgusted also with someone who had to rely on drugs to cope, irrespective if those feelings were warranted or not. Husbands are supposed to be the strong ones.

[MooCow]

How did He "come off" the Antivan? It is only meant for short term use. It has nasty side effects, and can be difficult to stop using. I've seen that it is not uncommon to take another benzo to replace it, then wean from that.

 

Another thing, has he been prescribed anything for anxiety? busPIRone is a good one. It can be prescribed and use of the antivan temporary until the busPIRone kicks in.

[TianXiaXueXiao]

How did He "come off" the Antivan? It is only meant for short term use. It has nasty side effects, and can be difficult to stop using. I've seen that it is not uncommon to take another benzo to replace it, then wean from that.

 

Another thing, has he been prescribed anything for anxiety? busPIRone is a good one. It can be prescribed and use of the antivan temporary until the busPIRone kicks in.

I'm going to discuss this with him tonight. He ended up going to the office late. He tapered off the ativan last time and he was using the trazidone simultaneously.

[TianXiaXueXiao]

Hugs. I do not have any answers, but I understand your frustration and disappointment. I also have insomnia and have always persevered. Sometimes, it even comes in handy. I cannot imagine calling in sick for tiredness. I would be disgusted also with someone who had to rely on drugs to cope, irrespective if those feelings were warranted or not. Husbands are supposed to be the strong ones.

Thanks for relating to my feeling about it. I feel terrible for being so critical of him without being in his shoes.

[bolt.]

So, my DH has had chronic migraines of increasing frequency and intensity for about 7 years. They are related to job stress in a physical way too. That means that I really understand what you are saying about being a zombie at home, about getting all the consiquences, about him being self-consumed, loosing esteem, loosing compassion and learning to function without him. It's galling to realize that I am sometimes so angry at him for being sick that I want to kick him in the head (a visceral feeling not a real intention). It's horrid. And it may go on forever. It's prolonged grief, complete with anger, abject loneliness, loss, pain, and the world on your shoulders.

 

The thing is, I don't know that I'm coping with it well at all. I'm ok, and I have been (for the most part) for years... But it's basically because I have abandoned hope, abandoned expectations, forgotten about compassion and decided to just-bloody carry the damn world, then. I wanted more out of life, but that was naive, and this is reality. People get sick. Some of us have to be their spouses. Statistics suck when it's you.

 

I regard my husband as "good company" whenever he's available, and basically pretend he's out of town whenever he's out of commission. Our love is real, and it feels very real to him, because whenever he's functional, he is loved. For myself I run on 50% love and 50% sheer wrought-iron backbone.

 

We have good boundaries. I learned early that minding his illness was going to drive me nuts. He could/should be managing it a lot better, but I just have to not care about that. I can't be crazy. There's a world that needs to be carried, and as bad as it is sometimes, there is warmth, love, interdependence and all the nescesary ingredients of a good "old fashioned" marriage. Just no fairy tale trimmings. Life is not a fairy tale. One competent parent is enough. 1 (me) + 10% of dad is better than any other realistic alternative, and much better than many families in history. Think WWII -- those women are my imaginary tribe. And you too, I guess. Every last one if them found a way to run a home... And they weren't all as smart and determined as you and I. I'm pretty sure some of them were feather-brains. They figured it out.

 

Money helps. It's good to be able to purchase insurance (it takes the weight of future income loss off your mind, which makes it feel less like a time bomb, which will make you less reactive to the moments that feel like a really bad sign)... And also to buy services and comforts, like taking your car to the mechanic rather than leaving things like that in the husband zone.

 

I do have some firm expectations: The way I expect to be spoken to is non-negotiable. I also expect that when he does have some good hours that are at home, that he will let me guide his priorities. We have an agreement that he will seek immediate medical care if I tell him to.

 

I have firm expectations of myself too. I consider him to be "entitled to" 1. Food and Water 2. Peaceable space (tidy, darken-able, clean, cozy, good air quality) and routine (predictable, reliable, but flexible, people-first) and 3. Presence (responsive, attentive) and platitudes (affirmations, sense of ease, emotional comfort).

 

Maybe this is more about me than you... And it's quite possibly terrible advice from a fatalist who has basically given up, but it's working for now. Life doesn't suck, it carries on, and it has lots of good times. I can do life this way. Maybe you can too. Or, if you find another way, maybe that helps others. Anyways, you are not alone.

[zoobie]

Thanks everyone for your responses. I will pm you later today PJ!

 

I asked dh if he was willing to see a psychiatrist this morning and he didn't say one way or the other. He said he was just going to go to the clinic by his work for the ativan rx.

 

As for talking, dh has never been very open with me about what he has discussed in therapy. He interprets doctor patient privilege differently than i do. This isn't new, but I am going to request a joint session with the therapist.

What kind of clinic is prescribing this? In addition to personal therapy for him, it sounds as though you could benefit from couple's sessions to iron out communication issues. There is a fine line to walk when dealing with a mental issue that impacts physical health and your family. He does have a right to confidentiality in therapy, but you as his spouse and life partner have a right to some kind of input on a treatment plan that affects you all so much. That opening and sharing has to come from him though. The treating doctor won't be able to tell you anything without his permission. The doctor can listen to you so that he gets a picture of what he's like from your perspective.

[TianXiaXueXiao]

What kind of clinic is prescribing this? In addition to personal therapy for him, it sounds as though you could benefit from couple's sessions to iron out communication issues. There is a fine line to walk when dealing with a mental issue that impacts physical health and your family. He does have a right to confidentiality in therapy, but you as his spouse and life partner have a right to some kind of input on a treatment plan that affects you all so much. That opening and sharing has to come from him though. The treating doctor won't be able to tell you anything without his permission. The doctor can listen to you so that he gets a picture of what he's like from your perspective.

This!

 

Thank you for spelling out what I was having difficulty putting into words.

[TianXiaXueXiao]

Oh and the clinic is a walk-in clinic.

[Tap]

One thing to think about, is that while Trazodone is used for sleep, but it is also an antidepressant.  Since the trazodone no longer seems to be enough medicine to help him sleep, I wonder if the antidepressant benefit, is also not enough any longer. 

 

I agree with others who think that he needs to be dealing with the anxiety (and likely depression) as well as the insomnia.  

 

Moving and job changes are huge life changes, that aren't just about if you like your job or not. 

 

You said he is riding public transportation, is that common for his company/for him....or is it a bit demoralizing for him? How much extra time does it add to his work day?

 

How are the kids and you handling the move? Are you all settling in ok?  Is it stressful for everyone still?   

Did he leave friends/family/favorite co-workers behind? Has he found any new friends to start to rebuild any of those missing relationships? 

Did he leave a favorite gym, fishing hole, golf course etc?  Has he found any new activities to replace those?

 

It is mentally exhausting to learn a new job sometimes.  So much so that it overwhelms the brain and it really needs time to adjust to the new stress level.  It can almost feel like a brain concussion.  It can seem like your brain physically hurts from the new information and stress.  Sleep, is often the way people deal with these situations, but if he is not sleeping on top of learning a new job, it can compound quickly.  Just one or two nights of sleep isn't enough to fix it.  

 

To me it sounds like maybe the doctor was trying to give him a bit of meds to help him unwind and let go of the stress of the day, but maybe it was a bit too much for him....or the wrong med all together based on what you have said it did to him.   I would ask him if you could go to the doctor with him and discuss the personality changes with the doctor, that you saw in him on the medications.  There are lots of meds that can really help him and it may take few tries to find the one that works for him.  Just going to therapy once a week, isn't going to fix things overnight.  Using medications to keep a persons basic functions under control (ie sleep, antidepressants, etc) are very commonly used to smooth the everyday situation, while the therapist is helping the patient to find some permanent solutions. 

 

 

(((hugs)))

 

 

 

 

[IfIOnly]

Hello Hive! I am hoping someone who's btdt can offer some sage advice on the issue I'm having with dh and his insomnia. Here's the background:

 

We moved to a new state last summer for a new job for dh. Ever since we moved here, he's been battling insomnia and has had to call in sick several times due to sleeplessness.

 

He is currently seeing a therapist because it seems to be performance anxiety related insomnia as he sleeps fine on weekends and holidays, but not work nights.

 

He says he likes his job and he keeps getting raises and positive feedback at work. This is his first senior level position with a number of reports and his first city government job.

 

He has to wake up earlier for this job than his prior jobs because we are relying on mass transit for him to get to work since we only have 1 car.

 

A couple months ago he got an rx for Ativan for a back up sleep aid to be used sparingly when the trazidone he was previously prescribed doesn't cut it.

 

It got to the point where he could only sleep on weeknights if he took the ativan as the trazidone had become completely ineffective. He ran out of ativan about 7 weeks ago and I insisted that he pursue counseling for the anxiety instead of treating symptoms with tranquilizers. He agreed and went back to the trazidone only and found a good therapist. Things improved for about 5 weeks, but have taken a serious nose dive in the past 2 weeks. He doesn't really share much about the ground he's covering in therapy and it doesn't seem like he has any homework to practice from the therapist.

 

After calling in sick for the 3rd time in 2 weeks this morning, he decided that he just needs to go back on ativan. I'm opposed to this solution because of how dependence forming ativan is and because it makes him a zombie at home. He takes it at 8pm and by 8:30 he is just high and in his own world, preventing him from connecting with me or the kids. He is able to sleep and he feels great in the morning and throughout the day at work, but by the time he gets home he is tired and irritable and anxious about sleep. I feel like I'm losing the man I love to this problem. His work loves him, but we are getting the short end of the stick, so the kids and I are learning to live without him. We haven't slept in the same bed (except for weekends) for months because he can't sleep with anyone else in the room. I feel really lonely and isolated. He is so different now due to sleep deprivation without the ativan that I know he needs something! He is usually pretty sentimental and thoughtful around mother's day but he did absolutely nothing for me yesterday and didn't even have the capacity to recognize that he did nothing even though my daughter kept asking what the plan was all day. He was just consumed with anxiety about how he was going to sleep.

 

I'm having a heck of a time being compassionate toward him since I feel like I'm the one getting the shaft and because I've lived with chronic insomnia all my life and I guess I've just always powered through without relying on drugs or calling in sick.

 

It's diminishing the esteem I have for him and I'm feeling very insecure about our marriage and future finances.

 

How can I help dh overcome this and how can I adjust my own attitude to benefit the family during this difficult time?

 

Thanks!

 

Does he have to take the meds so early? Can he take them at or nearer to bed time?

 

Right now and until finding a better solution, Him being a zombie may be better than him jeopardizing/losing his job? Job loss sounds stressful too.

 

I'm not sure why you would be opposed to him taking something that helps him sleep because it's dependence forming? It actually is alarming to me because I've dealing with feeling of guilt from others lecturing me about the evils of prescription meds. People often struggle with getting they help they need because of their own internal struggles and don't need outside pressure, as well. Sleep deprivations is awful, much, much worse than prescription drug dependence.

 

I deal with chronic sleep issues. After years and years of trying every natural and over the counter thing under the sun, I just recently got a RX for Trazodone and it did nothing for me even at 150 mg. The two week trial period to see if would work was horrible. My Dr. then prescribed Nortriptyline. It's working marvelously. I have to take it with Melatonin and Benadryl to get the deep, restorative sleep that my body needs though. Eventually, after I feel I've caught up on sleep as much as possible, I'll try just doing the Nori. or diff. combos to take the least amount of medication necessary. But, I am seriously considering this RX a miracle. I finally feel rested when I get up. Also, a lot of my other issues are getting better because I'm sleeping good now like horrible headaches, mental confusion, body pain, and more. Trazodone and Nortriptyline are also antidepressants and I know I'm low in serotonin, so it's doing wonders for my mood too.

[TianXiaXueXiao]

So, my DH has had chronic migraines of increasing frequency and intensity for about 7 years. They are related to job stress in a physical way too. That means that I really understand what you are saying about being a zombie at home, about getting all the consiquences, about him being self-consumed, loosing esteem, loosing compassion and learning to function without him. It's galling to realize that I am sometimes so angry at him for being sick that I want to kick him in the head (a visceral feeling not a real intention). It's horrid. And it may go on forever. It's prolonged grief, complete with anger, abject loneliness, loss, pain, and the world on your shoulders.

 

The thing is, I don't know that I'm coping with it well at all. I'm ok, and I have been (for the most part) for years... But it's basically because I have abandoned hope, abandoned expectations, forgotten about compassion and decided to just-bloody carry the damn world, then. I wanted more out of life, but that was naive, and this is reality. People get sick. Some of us have to be their spouses. Statistics suck when it's you.

 

I regard my husband as "good company" whenever he's available, and basically pretend he's out of town whenever he's out of commission. Our love is real, and it feels very real to him, because whenever he's functional, he is loved. For myself I run on 50% love and 50% sheer wrought-iron backbone.

 

We have good boundaries. I learned early that minding his illness was going to drive me nuts. He could/should be managing it a lot better, but I just have to not care about that. I can't be crazy. There's a world that needs to be carried, and as bad as it is sometimes, there is warmth, love, interdependence and all the nescesary ingredients of a good "old fashioned" marriage. Just no fairy tale trimmings. Life is not a fairy tale. One competent parent is enough. 1 (me) + 10% of dad is better than any other realistic alternative, and much better than many families in history. Think WWII -- those women are my imaginary tribe. And you too, I guess. Every last one if them found a way to run a home... And they weren't all as smart and determined as you and I. I'm pretty sure some of them were feather-brains. They figured it out.

 

Money helps. It's good to be able to purchase insurance (it takes the weight of future income loss off your mind, which makes it feel less like a time bomb, which will make you less reactive to the moments that feel like a really bad sign)... And also to buy services and comforts, like taking your car to the mechanic rather than leaving things like that in the husband zone.

 

I do have some firm expectations: The way I expect to be spoken to is non-negotiable. I also expect that when he does have some good hours that are at home, that he will let me guide his priorities. We have an agreement that he will seek immediate medical care if I tell him to.

 

I have firm expectations of myself too. I consider him to be "entitled to" 1. Food and Water 2. Peaceable space (tidy, darken-able, clean, cozy, good air quality) and routine (predictable, reliable, but flexible, people-first) and 3. Presence (responsive, attentive) and platitudes (affirmations, sense of ease, emotional comfort).

 

Maybe this is more about me than you... And it's quite possibly terrible advice from a fatalist who has basically given up, but it's working for now. Life doesn't suck, it carries on, and it has lots of good times. I can do life this way. Maybe you can too. Or, if you find another way, maybe that helps others. Anyways, you are not alone.

Thanks for the attitude adjustment assistance. It's very helpful and I'm sorry your loved one suffers migraines. That's hard!

[IfIOnly]

Hugs. I do not have any answers, but I understand your frustration and disappointment. I also have insomnia and have always persevered. Sometimes, it even comes in handy. I cannot imagine calling in sick for tiredness. I would be disgusted also with someone who had to rely on drugs to cope, irrespective if those feelings were warranted or not. Husbands are supposed to be the strong ones.

 

???

[bolt.]

Hugs. I do not have any answers, but I understand your frustration and disappointment. I also have insomnia and have always persevered. Sometimes, it even comes in handy. I cannot imagine calling in sick for tiredness. I would be disgusted also with someone who had to rely on drugs to cope, irrespective if those feelings were warranted or not. Husbands are supposed to be the strong ones.

Wow! I missed that one on my first read-thru.

 

I would be *enraptured* if there were such a thing as drugs that could help my husband cope, and if he went to the effort of finding them, taking them, and relying on them! Oh, living God! For such an easy solution!!!

 

We threw away the sexist claptrap about "strong" husbands ages ago.

[TianXiaXueXiao]

One thing to think about, is that while Trazodone is used for sleep, but it is also an antidepressant.  Since the trazodone no longer seems to be enough medicine to help him sleep, I wonder if the antidepressant benefit, is also not enough any longer. 

 

I agree with others who think that he needs to be dealing with the anxiety (and likely depression) as well as the insomnia.  

 

Moving and job changes are huge life changes, that aren't just about if you like your job or not. 

 

You said he is riding public transportation, is that common for his company/for him....or is it a bit demoralizing for him? How much extra time does it add to his work day?

 

How are the kids and you handling the move? Are you all settling in ok?  Is it stressful for everyone still?   

Did he leave friends/family/favorite co-workers behind? Has he found any new friends to start to rebuild any of those missing relationships? 

Did he leave a favorite gym, fishing hole, golf course etc?  Has he found any new activities to replace those?

 

It is mentally exhausting to learn a new job sometimes.  So much so that it overwhelms the brain and it really needs time to adjust to the new stress level.  It can almost feel like a brain concussion.  It can seem like your brain physically hurts from the new information and stress.  Sleep, is often the way people deal with these situations, but if he is not sleeping on top of learning a new job, it can compound quickly.  Just one or two nights of sleep isn't enough to fix it.  

 

To me it sounds like maybe the doctor was trying to give him a bit of meds to help him unwind and let go of the stress of the day, but maybe it was a bit too much for him....or the wrong med all together based on what you have said it did to him.   I would ask him if you could go to the doctor with him and discuss the personality changes with the doctor, that you saw in him on the medications.  There are lots of meds that can really help him and it may take few tries to find the one that works for him.  Just going to therapy once a week, isn't going to fix things overnight.  Using medications to keep a persons basic functions under control (ie sleep, antidepressants, etc) are very commonly used to smooth the everyday situation, while the therapist is helping the patient to find some permanent solutions. 

 

 

(((hugs)))

 

Lots of good questions, Tap!

 

We moved from a rural area in Northern California to a large metropolitan area and it was really easy for him to ride his bike to work or take the car in the morning and come home for lunch and trade with me when we lived in CA. Now it makes more sense for him to take the bus (23 min. commute) since he gets a free public trans pass through his work and the bus stop is right near our place. He likes having the time to read a novel or the newspaper to and from work. I don't think it is demoralizing. He likes having the space to transition mentally between home and work.

 

He left behind some great friends but he also did not see them with any frequency. The people that he has been the closest with also moved here so we kind of have a little exodus tribe here. He did really love his former work and the accolades that went with it, but it did not pay competitively at all and we didn't have any health insurance or retirement. We have both now, thank God.

 

We are carving out a nice little life here and making some really nice friendships with people who are on a completely different wave length than a lot of the people we knew back in CA. We are getting to know people who are , from what we can tell, quite simply great role models for how to live a life of authenticity and accountability and for this we feel quite blessed!

 

I would love for him to find a medication that works for his anxiety because I completely agree with you! I am not too keen on the effects of the tranquilizers though.  Hmph.

 

[mom2samlibby]

 I would have him see his doctor and have some tests run for vitamin deficiencies.  Vitamin D, Vitamin B12, and Folate deficiencies can cause insomnia.  Magnesium can also help with sleep.  B12 can also impact ones mood. 

 

 

[sbgrace]

Is he seeing a talk therapist or a cognitive behavioral therapist? CBT would be more helpful for insomnia, anxiety, and/or depression imo. He should be getting practical exercises. If he's unable to do the work, I'd suspect depression. In fact, if he hasn't been formally assessed for depression, that's important. It looks different in men.

 

I feel for you. A lot.

 

I do find it curious that he can fall asleep on  the week-ends. Does he fall asleep at his normal bedtime during the week? Does he sleep more than normal on week-ends?  Some people have sleep phase issues or are very sensitive to changes in sleep timing or quantity.

[Rosie_0801]

What is he eating?

[TianXiaXueXiao]

Is he seeing a talk therapist or a cognitive behavioral therapist? CBT would be more helpful for insomnia, anxiety, and/or depression imo. He should be getting practical exercises. If he's unable to do the work, I'd suspect depression. In fact, if he hasn't been formally assessed for depression, that's important. It looks different in men.

 

I feel for you. A lot.

 

I do find it curious that he can fall asleep on  the week-ends. Does he fall asleep at his normal bedtime during the week? Does he sleep more than normal on week-ends?  Some people have sleep phase issues or are very sensitive to changes in sleep timing or quantity.

 

He is seeing a CBT therapist. I keep asking if the therapist has things for him to practice and he remains vague about it. I don't press him because I don't want to have him erect even bigger communication blockades.

 

He goes to bed later on Fridays and sleeps in on Saturdays. Even though he is supposed to go to bed and wake up at the same time every day, he prefers to feel like he is "free" on Friday night and Saturday morning.

 

[TianXiaXueXiao]

Thanks again for all the helpful replies. Everyone has said something supportive and helpful and I really appreciate it!

 

Dh came home with an rx for celexa and a refill on the ativan. He is supposed to only use the ativan as a last resort, so hopefully he can hold out and see if the celexa has any initial positive results but I realize that it normally takes a while. We are going to do a couples session with his therapist next week and I am feeling much more hopeful about things at the moment. Thank you for your support and if you pray, please remember us in your prayers.

 

Thank you!

[Liz CA]

Does he enjoy what he is doing at work? Is he invested in it, interested in learning more about it or is it mostly a job that is stressful at times?

 

Kudos to him for seeing a clinician. It may take a little time before you see lasting improvements.

[TianXiaXueXiao]

What is he eating?

 

He eats a pretty decent diet of which the majority is fresh, organic, and home-cooked. He has zero allergies except to the contrast dye in ct scans. We don't eat a lot of red meat and we are vegans for about half the year, including every Wednesday and Friday in addition to longer periods that span several sustained weeks in duration.

[TianXiaXueXiao]

Does he enjoy what he is doing at work? Is he invested in it, interested in learning more about it or is it mostly a job that is stressful at times?

 

Kudos to him for seeing a clinician. It may take a little time before you see lasting improvements.

 

He says he enjoys it, but I can tell when there is fire in his belly and this job doesn't bring that out in him. I think he likes that he is good at it, but it is NOT his passion. His passion is land restoration and conservation but it doesn't pay the bills as well as the opposite of that does (land development :scared: ). Does he feel conflicted and a little bit like he sold out? He says "no" every time I ask him.

[sbgrace]

He is seeing a CBT therapist. I keep asking if the therapist has things for him to practice and he remains vague about it. I don't press him because I don't want to have him erect even bigger communication blockades.

 

He goes to bed later on Fridays and sleeps in on Saturdays. Even though he is supposed to go to bed and wake up at the same time every day, he prefers to feel like he is "free" on Friday night and Saturday morning.

 

 

Well, I'm sure he's been told not to vary his sleep on week-ends. That's undoubtedly making it worse. But I get it why he feels that way. I sometimes wish we could make decisions for our spouses! I will pray for you both.

 

[Little Nyssa]

((Hugs))

Did I understand correctly, that the Rx comes from the walk-in clinic? At that kind of clinic they will be looking at what they can do for a person in the short term- he needs a Dr who can get to know him long term, and try various options if needed.

 

Also... You know there's nothing wrong with modifying the vegan fast in times of illness or stress. Could it be that more meat might help him?

[happi duck]

(Hugs)

[imagine.more]

Thanks again for all the helpful replies. Everyone has said something supportive and helpful and I really appreciate it!

 

Dh came home with an rx for celexa and a refill on the ativan. He is supposed to only use the ativan as a last resort, so hopefully he can hold out and see if the celexa has any initial positive results but I realize that it normally takes a while. We are going to do a couples session with his therapist next week and I am feeling much more hopeful about things at the moment. Thank you for your support and if you pray, please remember us in your prayers.

 

Thank you!

I've taken celexa for PPD that included severe anxiety and a decent bit of insomnia and it was wonderful, worked like a charm! My sleep slowly became much more natural and regular. Given your descriptions it sounds like anxiety is the root cause of his insomnia and so treating that underlying issue should be much more effective. Just a heads up, Celexa is difficult to transition onto but since he's so bad off as it is I bet it won't seem too bad to you guys. If he can hold on through the side effects for 1 month he should see a huge benefit then. I highly recommend working through a psychiatrist or a very thorough pcp to manage dosage. It's common for them to start out with the smallest dose possible and then increase as needed until you get to a good point where it's helping lots but doesn't give a zombie-like feeling.

 

And if Celexa isn't right for him try something else, each SSRI is different and some work for some people and others for different people. I've tried Zoloft and it did very little good and Nortryptiline which cured my migraines but did not affect depression and gave me too many side effects. Taking Celexa was a totally different thing, I joke to my DH that maybe I just had a celexa deficiency all along ;) So if one med doesn't work after a proper 2 month trial try something else. This sounds terribly stressful for both you and him and I'd be frustrated if I were you too! It's hard to know someone needs medical help but also know that in the end they need to get it themselves and there's not much you can do to force the issue. I'm glad it sounds like with some prodding he is seeking out solutions. Many just stay in denial forever and refuse to try to fix it.

 

**note: it's 2:50am and I'm awake and killing time here... because I'm off celexa for pregnancy, lol! This almost never happened when I was on it.

[kiwik]

Hugs. I do not have any answers, but I understand your frustration and disappointment. I also have insomnia and have always persevered. Sometimes, it even comes in handy. I cannot imagine calling in sick for tiredness. I would be disgusted also with someone who had to rely on drugs to cope, irrespective if those feelings were warranted or not. Husbands are supposed to be the strong ones.

I hope you never get depression then! Or for that matter that your insomnia doesn't get so bad that your body just can't keep going. Whether you can work tired depends a bit on the job.

 

To the OP has he tried antidepressants? If it is anxiety they may help although I assume someone would have looked into that.

[Rosie_0801]

He eats a pretty decent diet of which the majority is fresh, organic, and home-cooked. He has zero allergies except to the contrast dye in ct scans. We don't eat a lot of red meat and we are vegans for about half the year, including every Wednesday and Friday in addition to longer periods that span several sustained weeks in duration.

 

Make sure it is a protein heavy breakfast, not carb heavy. That helps for female insomnia, not sure if it works for men, but I think it would.

[Valley Girl]

I would be disgusted also with someone who had to rely on drugs to cope, irrespective if those feelings were warranted or not. Husbands are supposed to be the strong ones.

 

I imagine most people would prefer NOT to need medication, but sometimes it is necessary. You work in the medical industry, correct? Why would you be disgusted with someone who had reached the point of needing extra help? Not everyone has the same reserve of energy and coping skills for every situation. We all have times when we're so mired in whatever we're dealing with that we can't see clearly to dig ourselves out. It's not weakness to need help. And getting it shouldn't carry a stigma. Even husbands need--and deserve--support when they're struggling. I'm not trying to minimize what the OP is experiencing. She clearly has a very heavy burden right now.

[Slartibartfast]

Hugs. I do not have any answers, but I understand your frustration and disappointment. I also have insomnia and have always persevered. Sometimes, it even comes in handy. I cannot imagine calling in sick for tiredness. I would be disgusted also with someone who had to rely on drugs to cope, irrespective if those feelings were warranted or not. Husbands are supposed to be the strong ones.

 

 

This post is offensive and ignorant.

 

If my husband had a medical issue I would want that treated, I would certainly NOT tell him he was "supposed to be the strong one" and needs to just buck up and deal.

[Slartibartfast]

I agree with others that he needs the anxiety treated rather than the insomnia, which is a symptom.

 

There are medications which work for both and are older meds and inexpensive. Vitamins and exercise are both good for anxiety as well.

[bolt.]

Thanks again for all the helpful replies. Everyone has said something supportive and helpful and I really appreciate it!

 

Dh came home with an rx for celexa and a refill on the ativan. He is supposed to only use the ativan as a last resort, so hopefully he can hold out and see if the celexa has any initial positive results but I realize that it normally takes a while. We are going to do a couples session with his therapist next week and I am feeling much more hopeful about things at the moment. Thank you for your support and if you pray, please remember us in your prayers.

 

Thank you!

I'm glad things are glimmering positive for the moment.

 

I hate to say this, but for me, the "hope cycles" hurt the worst. I have the worst outbursts and my darkest moments when I let myself loop through actually thinking some approach/change might help... And then it doesn't. So I control my hope. I say to myself, "If a treatment will be good, it will be good whether I'm hopeful in the meantime or not. So for this 'meantime' I'm just going to ignore any thoughts I have about the possibility of recovery."

 

Maybe you will be ok. Maybe this actually is the treatment that will bring everything back to manageability and harmony. I truly want that for you. But, if not, beware the crash. If you start to lash out, be alone. Immediately.

[Tiramisu]

Thanks again for all the helpful replies. Everyone has said something supportive and helpful and I really appreciate it!

 

Dh came home with an rx for celexa and a refill on the ativan. He is supposed to only use the ativan as a last resort, so hopefully he can hold out and see if the celexa has any initial positive results but I realize that it normally takes a while. We are going to do a couples session with his therapist next week and I am feeling much more hopeful about things at the moment. Thank you for your support and if you pray, please remember us in your prayers.

 

Thank you!

 

I'm happy he got something like celexa.

 

This is my feeling from reading your description of the situation. As PPs suggested, depression is definitely part of the picture. And I think it's a much, much bigger part than has been considered. Someone very dear to me had anxiety and was in therapy on and off for it it for years. Because her anxiety had been so obvious, even the therapist did not realize that the depression was as much of a problem as it was. When another specialist was consulted and suggested depression and that was finally treated, she saw a lot of improvement.

 

A psychiatrist told me that each individual is different with regard to the best time to take a med like this. Some people do better at night, while others do better taking it in the morning. In other words, for some people it actually improves sleep to take it at night, while for others it can be energizing. So he may want to experiment if sleep is still a problem.

 

I am a strong believer in starting in small doses and going up slowly.

[Greta]

T.Wells, :grouphug: I am sorry that you (your whole family) is going through this. It's rough on everyone.

 

I'm Orthodox too, so I don't say this lightly, but the simple truth is that the fast may be making this issue worse. I've read from numerous sources that strict dieting, and especially strict low-fat diets, can make depression and anxiety worse. I would encourage your husband to skip the fast for awhile, keep his protein and fat intake high (or at least normal/moderate), and see if that helps.

 

Also, as someone who can't sleep well in the same bed with her husband, I would say try not to take it personally that he sleeps better apart from you. That has nothing to do with you or with your marriage, it's his issue. My advice would be not to push on that point at all right now (not saying that you are - I don't know) and maybe revisit it later, much later, once he is sleeping normally again. My husband and I have had separate bedrooms for years, and it has not impacted our relationship negatively at all. I know that this is "weird" but it works better for us. In your case, it sounds like it's temporary, so maybe you can accept it knowing that this is just a season and it will pass.

 

I think his anxiety is most likely the root cause, but I'm no expert. And he needs to see an expert (or two or ten or as many as it takes!). :grouphug: I hope that he gets the help he needs. Has he ever seen a sleep specialist? Maybe you mentioned that already and I missed it.

[Scarlett]

I haven't read the whole thread but skimmed a bit. The one thing I noiticed is you said he takes the Ativan at 8:00. Why so early and how much of it is he taking? I take an Ativan, . 5 just before bed. I sleep really well and never wake up groggy. If I take a muscle relaxer I can't function the next day.....so I never take them even though I have them on hand for my TMJ issues.

 

My mom also takes Ativan for sleep....she has for 12 years since she got breast cancer and could no longer take hormones. She asked her doctor about getting off of it but he said there is no reason too. That sleep is very Important.

[J-rap]

I'm so sorry you're going through with this.  We have some insomniacs in our extended family, and I know their lives can be miserable!

 

I'll throw out a few suggestions, though many have already mentioned these:

 

Continued therapy;  the right person can really make a difference.  Sounds like there is a lot of anxiety in his life right now, but maybe it is linking itself to some other anxieties in his past, doubling it.  From what I have seen, middle age can bring back lots of early-in-life issues that if never dealt with, can become overwhelming (but usually evolve into something in your present life, so you can't even see it's coming from your past).

 

I'd suggest a full medical evaluation.  For example, sometimes being low in Vitamin D can cause depression and insomnia.

 

Daily exercise and staying on a schedule can sometimes help.

 

A small protein snack (like a hard-boiled egg) before bed-time can sometimes help.

 

Several people on this board have said that anxiety medication helped them feel so much better.  Has he ever tried that?

 

A cold shower before bed-time sometimes help.  (One family member takes an ice-bath!  He says it really helps him sleep well...)

 

Would he try yoga?  My daughter, who has chronic migraines, says this helps her more than anything.  (Not the same situation, but I think what it does it help her feel relaxed so that the migraines are more manageable.)  Meditation?

 

Lastly, do you think he is unhappy with his job?   Maybe he is trying to like it for the family, but really doesn't at all.  Of course he can't just up and quit if your income is dependent on it, but he doesn't have to feel stuck.  He could begin training for something else, on the side, and slowly move into another career.

 

If necessary, I would consider something drastic, but only if you two together can get to the bottom of his anxiety.  For example, if you both can put your finger on his job and every day environment (hectic city life, for example) causing a lot of anxiety, would you consider moving to a small town and starting fresh?   I have a grown nephew who is an insomniac.  He was as a baby, a child, and as an adult.  No one can really figure out what's behind it.  He went to college and got a degree that involved spending his time in a stressful office setting.  This went on for quite some time, and he wasn't sleeping as usual, and that caused anxiety and his life was really miserable. 

 

After some years, he bought a small piece of land, became a single-product farmer (I'm probably saying that wrong), caters to restaurants and other businesses, and imports from another country to add to what he produces.  He is his own boss, and works out on his land every day on his own time and is so happy.  He is not wealthy, but he can support his family and is doing very well.

 

This got long -- sorry!

 

 

[Greta]

I'm not sure why you would be opposed to him taking something that helps him sleep because it's dependence forming? It actually is alarming to me because I've dealing with feeling of guilt from others lecturing me about the evils of prescription meds. People often struggle with getting they help they need because of their own internal struggles and don't need outside pressure, as well. Sleep deprivations is awful, much, much worse than prescription drug dependence.

 

I just wanted to say (easier said than done, I realize) not to let those people get to you. Someone that I love is alive today only because of one of those high-addiction-potential drugs. He will mostly likely be on it for the rest of his life, and not only am I okay with that, I am profoundly grateful that the drug exists and is available to him.

 

Do what you need to do for YOUR quality of life, and don't worry about the opinions of people who have never walked in your shoes. :grouphug:

[Greta]

I second (third?) the recommendation for a good, regular exercise routine. My husband says that nothing else helps with his depression as much as exercise (and anxiety is closely related).

[laughing lioness]

Dh, bil and ds all struggle with insomnia. Dh is a stickler for "sleep hygiene" because of how negatively it impacts our lives. Eat clean-as few chemicals as possible. Work out to the point of exhuastion. Bed and wake up times regular, every day if possible, multi- vitamins, Omega 3. No screens for 3 hrs before bedtime. Chiropractic-care has helped with anxiety issues, as they are often related to stress responses from work, etc. Dynamic greens and Organo Gold Green Tea. 

Clonazapin as necessary (dh is a psychologist and we are more crunchy than med-model, but if you need the script, get it, use it and SLEEP!).

 

[IfIOnly]

I just wanted to say (easier said than done, I realize) not to let those people get to you. Someone that I love is alive today only because of one of those high-addiction-potential drugs. He will mostly likely be on it for the rest of his life, and not only am I okay with that, I am profoundly grateful that the drug exists and is available to him.

 

Do what you need to do for YOUR quality of life, and don't worry about the opinions of people who have never walked in your shoes. :grouphug:

 

Thank you for that encouragement! My culture is very natural (I live in Oregon with a bunch of EO crazies/pharma is the devil) and there is no way I would even tell peers about taking these meds. I would never hear the end of it and would def. be looked down upon.  I mean me taking Benadryl to sleep was like a huge mommy war thing, and I lost my crunchy care over it. Ha! I just kind of stopped sharing with others my struggles after that. My husband is supportive and that's what matters most anyway. I've gone for years and years suffering trying everything with no true help, and even when I told other this int he past it was the same thing: I wasn't trying hard enough, doing it right, etc. Ugh. I had an appointment with a counselor once who hooked me up to this machine that tested my relaxing and I aced it. Counselor said she'd never seen someone so relaxed. I've had 5 natural births people! I know how to do progressive relaxation. Anyways, just an example of something I've tried and still can't sleep.