Criminal charges will be filed in Freddie Gray case

[Word Nerd]

Criminal charges will be filed against six police officers for the death of Freddie Gray. 

 

"The charges against the officers include second-degree murder, manslaughter, assault and misconduct in office, among others."

[Gil]

Its a start.

[QueenCat]

Best news I've heard all day.

[Lakeside]

Thanks for posting.

[Tanaqui]

Couldn't happen to a nicer group of men.

[SproutMamaK]

Hoping this is a turning point for police accountability.

[Butter]

I do believe it is the right course of action.

[Tanaqui]

Mosby even said Gray did not have a switchblade, so it was an illegal arrest. Killers and liars, I hope their time in prison becomes a living hell for them. Lets hope this is a positive turning point.

 

Not likely. Though it's hard to get data on how many police killings there have been, there is no evidence that there have been more this year than in previous years. More likely it will all die down, just like it did after the death of Aiyana Stanley-Jones or the injury by flash grenade of that infant last year, and only those people who follow these stories will remember. We'll all move onto something else.

[Heatherwith4]

I'm glad to hear it.

[Catwoman]

It certainly seems like the appropriate course of action.

[MercyA]

Not likely. Though it's hard to get data on how many police killings there have been, there is no evidence that there have been more this year than in previous years. More likely it will all die down, just like it did after the death of Aiyana Stanley-Jones or the injury by flash grenade of that infant last year, and only those people who follow these stories will remember. We'll all move onto something else.

 

Sadly, I agree.

[Word Nerd]

Not likely. 

 

Especially considering the special legal protections Maryland's Law Enforcement Officers' Bill of Rights gives to police officers.

 

Still, it's rare for a police officer to be charged with murder or for their use of deadly force to be found unjustified, so I would not dismiss this decision as meaningless or typical.

[redsquirrel]

Interesting story about the prosecutor here

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/02/us/marilyn-mosby-prosecutor-in-freddie-gray-case-seen-as-tough-on-police-misconduct.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=b-lede-package-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

 

She is the youngest prosecutor in a major city in the country. There is actually an extensive recent history in Baltimore of the citizens taking action against out of control police. The city has had to pay millions in damages due to judgements of police brutality. So, the citizens have been using the courts and the political system to address these very issues. She ran on a tough law and order platform but specifically said police officers would be held to the same standard when it comes to criminal behaviour.

 

She is also from a family of police officers, both her parents were cops as was her grandfather.

 

Honestly, to see police officers charged... I am amazed. And so many of them charged, and to say that his arrest was illegal to begin with... stunning. I didn't think it would happen.

[Rivka]

As a Baltimorean, I feel incredibly relieved that the charges came down before the weekend.

[Tanaqui]

Especially considering the special legal protections Maryland's Law Enforcement Officers' Bill of Rights gives to police officers.

 

Still, it's rare for a police officer to be charged with murder or for their use of deadly force to be found unjustified, so I would not dismiss this decision as meaningless or typical.

 

I'm waiting to see if they convicted and, if so, if they get a real sentence. Should that happen, I'll allow myself to be cautiously optimistic, although aware that they may be getting atypical treatment simply because of all the publicity.

 

[poppy]

Charged when tensions are high. Let's see what happens down the road.  Fingers crossed that FOR ONCE something comes of police murder.

[Carol in Cal.]

For heaven's sake.  Can't we be glad that this one good thing was done?

I, for one, am glad.  Unalloyed glad.

I, for one, think that this is an important step.  

That doesn't mean that I'm deluded about the scope of the problem.  But every once in a while one right thing happens, and it should be celebrated.  

[Tanaqui]

For heaven's sake.  Can't we be glad that this one good thing was done?

I, for one, am glad.  Unalloyed glad.

I, for one, think that this is an important step.  

That doesn't mean that I'm deluded about the scope of the problem.  But every once in a while one right thing happens, and it should be celebrated.  

 

Well, that's one perspective, and by all means, don't let us harsh your squee.

 

However, from my perspective, if I keep myself grounded in realism then the very worst that can happen is I get what I expect, and if things go well, I'm pleasantly surprised! The alternative means that the best is that I get what I expect and the worst is that I'm crushingly disappointed. I definitely prefer my approach.

 

[Carol in Cal.]

Well, that's one perspective, and by all means, don't let us harsh your squee.

 

However, from my perspective, if I keep myself grounded in realism then the very worst that can happen is I get what I expect, and if things go well, I'm pleasantly surprised! The alternative means that the best is that I get what I expect and the worst is that I'm crushingly disappointed. I definitely prefer my approach.

 

I'm not saying to assume that this means they will be convicted.  I'm just saying, here we have an opportunity for joy.  Why not have it?  Any long struggle needs refreshment along the way.  Strength for the journey is crucial.

[Tanaqui]

There is no joy in a murder, even if the killers are caught and put on trial.

[Spy Car]

As a Los Angeleno, I do somewhat fear what happens if there is a trial that establishes guilt, but the officers are never-the-less exonerated. 

 

I knew my city would burn the moment the Rodney King verdicts came down. I hope for a better outcome in Baltimore.

 

Bill

[Catwoman]

There is no joy in a murder, even if the killers are caught and put on trial.

I'm sure that is not what Carol meant.

 

I think she meant that we should be happy that the right thing is being done and the police officers are being held accountable for their actions.

[Lisbeth]

Mosby even said Gray did not have a switchblade, so it was an illegal arrest. Killers and liars, I hope their time in prison becomes a living hell for them. Lets hope this is a positive turning point.

You are wishing for them to have a living hell? Ok, then! Do you also wish that on non-police-officer killers, even before the trial and verdict? This feels like a witchhunt.

[Word Nerd]

There is no joy in a murder, even if the killers are caught and put on trial.

 

That's quite a misrepresentation of Carol's post.

[Leav97]

I'm happy they've actually brought charges.  But, I've very sceptical anyone will be found guilty.

[Tanaqui]

I think she meant that we should be happy that the right thing is being done and the police officers are being held accountable for their actions.

 

But I don't really believe that the police officers will definitely be held accountable, that they will be convicted and then given an appropriate sentence. It is not unreasonable for me to hold off celebrating until that happens - and neither I nor anybody else here needs to be scolded for reacting differently from her. However you wish to interpret her words, I simply do not think this is an "opportunity for joy".

 

 

[Carol in Cal.]

Judging by the remarks in this thread, most will not celebrate then either.

Because there will be something else to feel bad about.

And I get that, I really do.  There is always something to feel bad about.  This entrenched problem is not going to go away in one or two good outcomes, and that is really, fundamentally, wrong and anti-American.

 

But it's not an outlook that serves people well in the long haul, any more than unreasonable optimism does.  We need to love and celebrate, for instance, MLK's Selma march, even though it didn't take things as far as they needed to go.  We need to appreciate the fact that we have substantial progress in equity in the workplace, even though it's not enough.  Celebrating good stuff does not mean being satisfied with it.  Rather, it means that we are nourished by successes and more able to move further forward.  Discouragement can't be allowed to overwhelm us if we want to ultimately succeed.

 

[Catwoman]

But I don't really believe that the police officers will definitely be held accountable, that they will be convicted and then given an appropriate sentence. It is not unreasonable for me to hold off celebrating until that happens - and neither I nor anybody else here needs to be scolded for reacting differently from her. However you wish to interpret her words, I simply do not think this is an "opportunity for joy".

Obviously you can be cynical about this.

 

But this is most certainly a step in the right direction. If the officers had not been charged, you would have been (rightfully, I believe) up in arms about it. But now that the officers have been charged, you don't seem to be pleased with that, either.

 

And I wasn't scolding you for believing differently; I was commenting that I thought you were misinterpreting Carol's post. At no point has she said she was taking "joy" in a murder.

[Guest]

Good! All else aside, if you can drive recklessly enough to sever someone's spine you need to be charged with vehicular manslaughter. Given the apparent intent it would have been a total travesty if this didn't get charges filed.

 

I'm hoping for a just, fair outcome. Fingers crossed!

[poppy]

It's ok to not celebrate that justice has been done.  Because it hasn't.  It's just a step. It's a good step, sure.  But there is a whole lot of evidence that police who are charged  in deadly force cases are  likely to be exonerated. 

 

Good! All else aside, if you can drive recklessly enough to sever someone's spine you need to be charged with vehicular manslaughter. Given the apparent intent it would have been a total travesty if this didn't get charges filed.

I'm hoping for a just, fair outcome. Fingers crossed!

 

Have you seen the video of them putting Freddie Grey into the van? He was either very injured beforehand, or clairvoyantly knew to pretend to have a severed spine  prior to the injury that killed him.

 

Thank goodness for camera phones.  They have proven to be useful tools of justice - which is what we all want.

 

 

[Guest]

I don't watch any news, haven't seen any videos. I also avoid breaking coverage for the most part and just use editorials from a few sources after the fact.

 

I wasn't aware he was already injured? It's bad regardless, and even a resisting man can be subdued without breaking bones - especially with multiple cops assisting.

[unsinkable]

It's ok to not celebrate that justice has been done. Because it hasn't. It's just a step. It's a good step, sure. But there is a whole lot of evidence that police who are charged in deadly force cases are likely to be exonerated.

 

 

Have you seen the video of them putting Freddie Grey into the van? He was either very injured beforehand, or clairvoyantly knew to pretend to have a severed spine prior to the injury that killed him.

 

Thank goodness for camera phones. They have proven to be useful tools of justice - which is what we all want.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/02/us/freddie-gray-autopsy-report-given-to-baltimore-prosecutors.html?_r=0

 

That's not what the charges reflect:

 

 

"Ms. Mosby said that Mr. Gray suffered a spinal injury on April 12 while being transported in a police van — and not earlier, while being arrested — and pointed to the failure of the police to put a seatbelt on him as a crucial factor.

 

“Mr. Gray suffered a severe and critical neck injury as a result of being handcuffed, shackled by his feet and unrestrained inside the B.P.D. wagon,†she said, referring to the police van.

 

Despite repeated stops to check on Mr. Gray, the van driver, Officer Caesar R. Goodson Jr., and other officers never belted him in, she said, at times leaving him facedown on the van floor with his hands behind him. Though there has been speculation that the police intentionally gave Mr. Gray a “rough ride,†intended to slam him against the metal walls of the van, Ms. Mosby did not refer to that possibility. She charged only Officer Goodson with second-degree murder, the most serious crime facing the six officers; he was also accused of manslaughter, assault and misconduct in office."

 

I DO feel he looked injured as he was put in the van, and that injury was exacerbated in the van.

[swimmermom3]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/02/us/freddie-gray-autopsy-report-given-to-baltimore-prosecutors.html?_r=0

 

That's not what the charges reflect:

 

 

"Ms. Mosby said that Mr. Gray suffered a spinal injury on April 12 while being transported in a police van — and not earlier, while being arrested — and pointed to the failure of the police to put a seatbelt on him as a crucial factor.

 

“Mr. Gray suffered a severe and critical neck injury as a result of being handcuffed, shackled by his feet and unrestrained inside the B.P.D. wagon,†she said, referring to the police van.

 

Despite repeated stops to check on Mr. Gray, the van driver, Officer Caesar R. Goodson Jr., and other officers never belted him in, she said, at times leaving him facedown on the van floor with his hands behind him. Though there has been speculation that the police intentionally gave Mr. Gray a “rough ride,†intended to slam him against the metal walls of the van, Ms. Mosby did not refer to that possibility. She charged only Officer Goodson with second-degree murder, the most serious crime facing the six officers; he was also accused of manslaughter, assault and misconduct in office."

 

I DO feel he looked injured as he was put in the van, and that injury was exacerbated in the van.

 

I think there are just too many unanswered questions still. I thought I read somewhere that he had been beaten by Baltimore police before, so maybe he was just dragging his legs to delay getting into the van? Maybe?  Why didn't the driver admit to the extra stop?

 

 

[Guest]

The whole thing sucks. We have courts to decide guilt, not police. Their job is to investigate crime, not punish it.

[unsinkable]

I think there are just too many unanswered questions still. I thought I read somewhere that he had been beaten by Baltimore police before, so maybe he was just dragging his legs to delay getting into the van? Maybe? Why didn't the driver admit to the extra stop?

 

 

I agree there are many many many unanswered questions. But poppy stated something that's contradicted by the state's attorney and the charges filed.

[Harriet Vane]

I am glad charges were filed, and I pray that the whole truth comes out and justice will be done. It will be a tough road, though, and that makes me fear.

[poppy]

Eyewitness accounts contradict the charges filed:

"Kevin Moore, a 28-year-old friend of Gray's from Gilmor Homes, said he rushed outside when he heard Gray was being arrested and saw him "screaming for his life" with his face planted on the ground. One officer had his knee on Gray's neck, Moore said, and another was bending his legs backward. "They had him folded up like he was a crab or a piece of origami," Moore said. "He was all bent up." (Baltimore Sun)

 

There was a crowd screaming that he was injured as he was hauled into the van.   So I don't think it's as cut and dried as the state's charges reflect.  If nothing else, it's clear some people  in Baltimore don't believe the charges are fully accurate- which plays into the protests and skepticism about how this will be handled by prosecutors.

 

 

[ChocolateReignRemix]

I think there are just too many unanswered questions still. I thought I read somewhere that he had been beaten by Baltimore police before, so maybe he was just dragging his legs to delay getting into the van? Maybe?  Why didn't the driver admit to the extra stop?

 

 

 

He had been placed in a restraint hold while waiting for the transport to the jail. His actions when going into the van were not consistent with someone who had a partially severed spine.  He likely wasn't beaten (no marks consistent with a beating based on the autopsy) but the restraint holds can be extremely painful and are sometimes used to basically torture a suspect without leaving a mark.

[redsquirrel]

The whole thing sucks. We have courts to decide guilt, not police. Their job is to investigate crime, not punish it.

 

He had committed no crime to begin with. The prosecutor said the police had no probable cause to even chase or arrest him. They found a legal knife in his pocket, but that was after they had chased him and picked him up.

 

There were no words exchanged, he saw the police officer across the street and ran for it. They chased him and then he was put in the van.  We still haven't been told why the chase took place to begin with. Hopefully that will come out at trial or any plea that gets made.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

 

Eyewitness accounts contradict the charges filed:

"Kevin Moore, a 28-year-old friend of Gray's from Gilmor Homes, said he rushed outside when he heard Gray was being arrested and saw him "screaming for his life" with his face planted on the ground. One officer had his knee on Gray's neck, Moore said, and another was bending his legs backward. "They had him folded up like he was a crab or a piece of origami," Moore said. "He was all bent up." (Baltimore Sun)

 

There was a crowd screaming that he was injured as he was hauled into the van.   So I don't think it's as cut and dried as the state's charges reflect.  If nothing else, it's clear some people  in Baltimore don't believe the charges are fully accurate- which plays into the protests and skepticism about how this will be handled by prosecutors.

 

 

He was likely injured to some degree but the restraint hold used does not cause injuries consistent with his spinal injury.

[idnib]

Interesting story about the prosecutor here

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/02/us/marilyn-mosby-prosecutor-in-freddie-gray-case-seen-as-tough-on-police-misconduct.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=b-lede-package-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

 

She is the youngest prosecutor in a major city in the country. There is actually an extensive recent history in Baltimore of the citizens taking action against out of control police. The city has had to pay millions in damages due to judgements of police brutality. So, the citizens have been using the courts and the political system to address these very issues. She ran on a tough law and order platform but specifically said police officers would be held to the same standard when it comes to criminal behaviour.

 

She is also from a family of police officers, both her parents were cops as was her grandfather.

 

Honestly, to see police officers charged... I am amazed. And so many of them charged, and to say that his arrest was illegal to begin with... stunning. I didn't think it would happen.

 

I don't usually watch press conferences, but 

.

[Happy2BaMom]

It's still just amazing to me....that a man who was physically well enough to run (which was not illegal) before being taken into police custody could end up with a crushed larynx, three crushed vertebra, and a severed spinal cord shortly after being taken into custody. You're talking amazing abuse here. Gestapo, anyone?

 

I'm glad for the charges and hope that justice is eventually done.

 

 

[Word Nerd]

The police union denies any wrongdoing and is calling for Mosby to be replaced by a special prosecutor.

http://t.co/OuMTELL0p7

[Mimm]

I don't usually watch press conferences, but hers was worth watching.

 

I'm only halfway through this but I'm shocked at her description of what happened. Wow.

[Trish]

Couldn't happen to a nicer group of men.

 

I saw the mugshots of the six.

 

One is a woman, and three of the six are black.

[idnib]

I'm only halfway through this but I'm shocked at her description of what happened. Wow.

 

Yes. I didn't know about the details of how many times they stopped, picking up the extra person, taking care of them first, etc. Like I said, I think it's worth watching.

[poppy]

I'm only halfway through this but I'm shocked at her description of what happened. Wow.

 

What a terrible way to die.  Surrounded by people sworn to protect you.

 

[Word Nerd]

I would say it's both.

[Tanaqui]

Yes, and this confused me....  I thought this was supposed to be a case of white police officers killing a black man...  But then again, I don't watch the news... I only get it from this well trained mind, so I guess I am just really confused at why all of the rioting then...   So is it not really a racial problem but a police problem?

 

It's definitely both.

 

The trouble with institutionalized racism (rather than just individual acts of meanheartedness and bigotry) is that when you're caught up in a racist system it can be hard to not get sucked in... even if, in other circumstances, you'd be the victim, even when you don't consciously think you hate black people or anything like that. So it's possible for a police force to act in a racist way against blacks even when there are black police officers, and it's possible for black police officers to be part of individually awful and racist acts.

[SKL]

If I read correctly, the only cop accused of murder is a black cop.

 

And the person doing the accusing is black.

 

So ... interesting situation.