Ignoring certain rules--am I wrong?

[pehp]

I would inquire as to the point of the rule, and proceed from there. After reading the tidbits you posted after about the general nature of these people, I wouldn't even send my child, b/c it sounds like there are a lot of 'control' issues.  And the trickery just blows me away!  And I wouldn't want my child to be without a cell phone in an environment that is already controlling!

 

If you absolutely feel you must send her, I would contact the people in charge and discuss this rule, and see if you can meet in the middle on it.

[TammyS]

I agree that the rules must be followed.  But I will still insist on my kid having a line of communication for the time outside of the activity.  There is often a gap between the timeframe of the activities and being in a parent's custody, and that is precisely when I feel my kids need such lines of communication the most.

 

Are they going to the butt end of nowhere or something?  I would assume almost anywhere an activity takes place will have a phone, and that the organizers would also have phones?

[AMJ]

I'm always suspicious of rules like that.  I can't help but wonder if those in charge just want to avoid the possibility of being video taped if something weird occurred.

 

Yes.  I've seen enough of the world to believe that this is not an unwarranted suspicion.

 

It doesn't even have to be on behalf of kids, either.  A technician once tried to tell DH he had to wait outside while she gave me an ultrasound.  He replied, "What are you planning to do to my wife that you don't want witnessed?"  When we said we'd leave without doing the ultrasound they relented and let him stay, with a caution not to distract the technician with questions.  We told my OB/GYN about it afterwards, and he pitched a fit.  He said it was unreasonable for them to do that, and called the hospital to complain.  He threatened to take his business elsewhere unless they changed the policy.  They did.

 

OP, what you have said so far has me concerned, too.  I'd be even more insistent that they not only allow my child to bring the phone, but allow her to keep it on her as well.  If they won't unbend on this then I would pull said child from attending at all.

[Reefgazer]

Yeah, but we survived without flush toilets for millennia also. :laugh:

Yes, you are wrong to break this rule.

 

If you feel strongly about it, remembering that millions of children managed to survive all sorts of group situations without such a thing as cell phones, then you should talk to TPTB to clarify the issue.

 

[Reefgazer]

I agree with the bolded; cellphones are also a constant problem with the kids I see and it makes me furious to see kids with their noses in their phones at dinner, church, funerals and everywhere else.  It's rude beyond belief.  But it's not rude and does not bother me if the phone is out of sight/out of mind.  I completely understand an out of sight/no use rule during activities.  And I don't need some organizer determining when my kid can contact me, either.  What if my kid's idea of an emergency isn't their idea of an emergency?

 

ETA (Re:  the second bolded statement):  If some kid felt the need to text secretly and disappear without a trace, that speaks volumes about the trust and confidence they have in the organizers of the activity.  She obviously felt the need for intense secrecy and there was no trust at all there.  That sends warning flags to me, big time, maybe because my kid was in a position where we didn't trust the adults in charge. 

You might try to look at it from the organizer's POV.  I've been the organizer of a number of things for teens and cell phones are a CONSTANT problem.  It is, without fail, the #1 issue.  Kids spend the whole time texting, surfing the web, whatever.  In more active things, kids take pics of the activity and post them online, then we get nasty emails from OTHER kid's parents about "I never gave permission for pictures of my kids to be posted online".....I once had a girl say she was going to the bathroom (this girl was 16), she never came back!  She had called her boyfriend to come pick her up!  Can you imagine my panic when this girl disappeared?

 

And every.single.solitary. parent sends their kid with a cell phone "in case of emergencies".  Oh honestly. 

 

You don't respect the rules and you clearly don't respect the people running it.  It's not fair to them to send your kid at all.

 

[Chris in VA]

Mine didn't even have a cell phone until Christmas this year.

 

It's now a common cultural expectation that  children should have phones to reach their parents (at least) every time they are away from them.

 

It's not how I grew up--it's not how any of us grew up, really. You depended on and trusted in the leadership to both take care of your kiddo and to  contact you.

 

I guess I just don't think it's a big deal to not have a phone on your kid.

 

I wouldn't break the rule, but if I really had anxiety about sending my child without one, I'd re-examine letting her go. You are saying you don't trust the leadership to get ahold of you if your child needs you. That seems like a huge red flag, and limited activities or not, I would not be sending my kid to an activity where I thought my kid might literally be endangered by the leadership.

[marbel]

I find such a ban (on even having the phone at all) unreasonable, and I, for one, wouldn't agree to it.  Not just what happens if she needs to reach me quickly -- what happens if I don't show up on time?  How is she to try to contact me, or anyone else?  Accidents do happen, and they can prevent people from being where they planned to be.  One careless driver can cause a collision that can have a parent unconcious and unable to be there or to call to say they can't get there.  She needs to be able to call you to find out if there's a delay, or to call someone else if you can't be reached.

 

I would insist she be allowed to have it on the premises and in her possession, with the understanding that she not use it during the activity.  This is a matter regarding her safety and welfare outside of the times of the activity, when not having such a line of communication could be quite detrimental.  If needed I would invent a family emergency or medical/counseling/child tracking need to have the ability to check in with her throughout every day (this can be most discreetly and unobtrusively done by allowing her to simply carry the phone).

 

This place holding the activity really needs to revisit their policy. 

 

This is why permission forms generally request an emergency contact other than the parent who is going to pick the child up.   

 

I guess I just don't get the insistence that a kid have a phone when under adult supervision.  Unless the people running the activity are completely incompetent, they are going to have a way to reach the parents (and an emergency contact), a way for the parents to reach their kid (via the organizers), and a protocol for real emergencies in which both parent and emergency contact are not reachable.   They're not going to walk off at the end of the day with unattended kids hanging around waiting for parents who might never show up.

 

(If I was running such an activity I probably wouldn't have the no-phone rule.  But if for some reason I had to, I'd have an exception for kids with medical needs.) 

[Reefgazer]

But they have to agree to reach the parents on behalf of the kid.  I don't feel my 12 year old DD needs someone's permission to contact me, for whatever reason.

This is why permission forms generally request an emergency contact other than the parent who is going to pick the child up.   

 

I guess I just don't get the insistence that a kid have a phone when under adult supervision.  Unless the people running the activity are completely incompetent, they are going to have a way to reach the parents (and an emergency contact), a way for the parents to reach their kid (via the organizers), and a protocol for real emergencies in which both parent and emergency contact are not reachable.   They're not going to walk off at the end of the day with unattended kids hanging around waiting for parents who might never show up.

 

(If I was running such an activity I probably wouldn't have the no-phone rule.  But if for some reason I had to, I'd have an exception for kids with medical needs.) 

 

[Guest]

You guys are cracking me up! The variety of responses is pretty funny!

 

Wrong or not, I do plan to send her with her phone, in her purse, sound off. It isn't an unsafe environment, just not my favorite. And, she has wanted to do the activity for a year do we're doing it.

 

Eta-it needs to be her own phone, not one of the leaders because DD doesn't have any of our numbers memorize. Kids these days!!

[Joker]

Here's the thing. Just because we didn't used to need them doesn't mean we don't now. It's because of that expectation that everyone has one, that finding a phone when you need it is becoming difficult. There are many after school activities (taking place in auditorium, cafeteria, or outside) my dds have been in when the school shuts down and locks the front office and access to classrooms- where the phones are. If the times had changed or something happened, my dds would need to use someone's cell so I just make sure they have their own.

 

There have also been many school trips where the teachers expect students to let parents know when they are arriving back at school, so even though they are not to use their phone during the outing they are actually expected to have one to communicate. These were trips where they were arriving home between midnight and 2am. Teachers allowed students without a phone to use theirs, but that would have taken forever if every student had to use a teacher's phone.

 

I have zero problem breaking no phone rules because they really shouldn't exist today. Keeping it silent and out of sight is completely acceptable, though.

[happi duck]

Ds's drivers ed teacher had a rule of no cell phone use...big difference from no cell phones.

 

This felt reasonable and respectful to me.

[AMJ]

Are they going to the butt end of nowhere or something?  I would assume almost anywhere an activity takes place will have a phone, and that the organizers would also have phones?

 

No, not every place does, and if they do have phones not every place is willing or able to call multiple places (if the child can even provide them with phone numbers) until they reach someone who can come.

 

On multiple occasions I have fielded a call from my niece, asking me to come get her when whoever was supposed to have picked her up didn't show up.  Twice it was truly necessary, and the delayed parent wasn't able to call or be reached.  By anyone.  As soon as she/they had text-capable phones she was able to receive texts when parent-on-duty was simply delayed.  Her school allowed the kids to have cell phones, so long as they left them in their lockers during the class day.  They did this because so many of the kids needed the phones for before- and after-school use.

 

I used to have a lengthy commute in unpredictably nasty traffic, and DH would be sent overseas on business trips at times.  I never allowed my kids to ride the school bus in case something happened to prevent me from getting home on time, and if DH was out of town I made sure I had back-up care arranged in case I simply didn't show up (accidents happen, and not on a planned schedule).

 

My kids now are required to have their phones charged up and on their person if I drop them off for an activity, party, ANYTHING.  If they are away from me I want that phone powered up and on their person.  I use it to track where they are, as well as to let them know if I am delayed.  It is a safety precaution.  They are quite responsible with the phones because I have insisted they be -- there are serious consequences at home for misuse of the phone while at such places.

[AMJ]

You guys are cracking me up! The variety of responses is pretty funny!

 

Wrong or not, I do plan to send her with her phone, in her purse, sound off. It isn't an unsafe environment, just not my favorite. And, she has wanted to do the activity for a year do we're doing it.

 

Eta-it needs to be her own phone, not one of the leaders because DD doesn't have any of our numbers memorize. Kids these days!!

 

Sounds like a good plan to me.

 

Even adults don't have everyone's phone numbers memorized anymore.  I certainly don't.  Our kids have our phone numbers memorized, but I need to check to see if they have their grandparents' and local aunt & uncle's phone numbers memorized, too.  If they are ever separated from their phones and can't reach DH or me I need to be sure they can borrow a phone to call someone else approved to collect them.

 

And I need to make sure I have memorized the kids' phone numbers, too, just in case my phone goes dead or is stolen while I'm away from them.

[TammyS]

I agree with the bolded; cellphones are also a constant problem with the kids I see and it makes me furious to see kids with their noses in their phones at dinner, church, funerals and everywhere else.  It's rude beyond belief.  But it's not rude and does not bother me if the phone is out of sight/out of mind.  I completely understand an out of sight/no use rule during activities.  And I don't need some organizer determining when my kid can contact me, either.  What if my kid's idea of an emergency isn't their idea of an emergency?

 

ETA (Re:  the second bolded statement):  If some kid felt the need to text secretly and disappear without a trace, that speaks volumes about the trust and confidence they have in the organizers of the activity.  She obviously felt the need for intense secrecy and there was no trust at all there.  That sends warning flags to me, big time, maybe because my kid was in a position where we didn't trust the adults in charge. 

 

1. If you don't trust the adults in charge to determine what an emergency is, then you shouldn't trust them with your kid.

 

2. The girl who disappeared and took off with her boyfriend wanted to hang out with a boyfriend instead of be in the activity......her mom later told me that she had been forbidden to see the boyfriend, blah, blah, blah....I could have cared less, what I cared about is a kid that I was responsible for decided to disappear on me.  Her mom (not the brightest penny) couldn't believe it when I wouldn't allow her back unless she left the phone at home.

[TammyS]

But they have to agree to reach the parents on behalf of the kid.  I don't feel my 12 year old DD needs someone's permission to contact me, for whatever reason.

 

I don't know any adult who would refuse a kid who wanted to call their parent, for any reason.  If I did, I certainly wouldn't leave my kid with them, regardless of whether the kid had a cellphone.

 

[AMJ]

Here's the thing. Just because we didn't used to need them doesn't mean we don't now. It's because of that expectation that everyone has one, that finding a phone when you need it is becoming difficult. There are many after school activities (taking place in auditorium, cafeteria, or outside) my dds have been in when the school shuts down and locks the front office and access to classrooms- where the phones are. If the times had changed or something happened, my dds would need to use someone's cell so I just make sure they have their own.

 

There have also been many school trips where the teachers expect students to let parents know when they are arriving back at school, so even though they are not to use their phone during the outing they are actually expected to have one to communicate. These were trips where they were arriving home between midnight and 2am. Teachers allowed students without a phone to use theirs, but that would have taken forever if every student had to use a teacher's phone.

 

I have zero problem breaking no phone rules because they really shouldn't exist today. Keeping it silent and out of sight is completely acceptable, though.

 

Regarding the bolded -- exactly.  I have chaperoned school field trips to places with no phones, not even pay phones.  I have also volunteered at the school itself, only to find out that teachers often don't carry their own cell phones when away from the classroom with the kids.  They don't think of it because they aren't supposed to use their phones while on duty, but not every room or space had a landline phone readily accessible, either.  If they needed help they had to send a child to the office to fetch someone.  This can cause a loss of critical time in a medical crisis.

[luuknam]

ETA (Re:  the second bolded statement):  If some kid felt the need to text secretly and disappear without a trace, that speaks volumes about the trust and confidence they have in the organizers of the activity.  She obviously felt the need for intense secrecy and there was no trust at all there.  That sends warning flags to me, big time, maybe because my kid was in a position where we didn't trust the adults in charge. 

Haven't figured out multiquote yet. Quote above was about some girl calling her boyfriend to pick her up during some activity.

 

Maybe she felt the need for intense secrecy so she could sneak off with her boyfriend and do things some teenagers do when they're alone, unsupervised with their boyfriends. Doesn't necessarily say anything about what the girl thought about the organizers.

 

I sent my now 7.5yo to a 4 night camp last summer without a cell phone (it had a "no electronics" policy). I spent a year abroad in Thailand as an exchange student in 2002-2003 without a cell phone. I think kids without special issues should be able to manage going to some activity without a cell phone without losing life or limb (fwiw, wrt some other comment, a kid would also survive not having indoor plumbing for a day). That said, I do break rules I think are stupid if it suits me to break them.

[TammyS]

Mine didn't even have a cell phone until Christmas this year.

 

It's now a common cultural expectation that  children should have phones to reach their parents (at least) every time they are away from them.

 

It's not how I grew up--it's not how any of us grew up, really. You depended on and trusted in the leadership to both take care of your kiddo and to  contact you.

 

I guess I just don't think it's a big deal to not have a phone on your kid.

 

I wouldn't break the rule, but if I really had anxiety about sending my child without one, I'd re-examine letting her go. You are saying you don't trust the leadership to get ahold of you if your child needs you. That seems like a huge red flag, and limited activities or not, I would not be sending my kid to an activity where I thought my kid might literally be endangered by the leadership.

 

:iagree:  My 16yo doesn't have a cell phone and he won't be getting one until I decide he needs it, or he's an adult, whichever comes first.  Heck, most of the time I don't keep a cell on me, and when I do, I don't turn it on (I'm not that old, either, if that's what you are thinking sub-40 is all I'll say.....I just don't like being tethered).  And he often goes off all day fishing or swimming or into the marsh or whatever.  Frankly, I think it makes him more careful not to have a phone, because he knows no one is coming to bail him out.

[TammyS]

 (if the child can even provide them with phone numbers)

 

My kids now are required to have their phones charged up and on their person if I drop them off for an activity, party, ANYTHING.

 

If a kid can't provide a phone number, they shouldn't be allowed out of their parents sight, literally.  Weren't we all taught our phone numbers before we went to kindergarten?

 

I would have DIED to be tethered to my mother that way.  Just mortified.

[Eagle]

Eta-it needs to be her own phone, not one of the leaders because DD doesn't have any of our numbers memorize. Kids these days!!

Or, she could have your number written on a piece of paper in her purse.

[marbel]

Sounds like a good plan to me.

 

Even adults don't have everyone's phone numbers memorized anymore.  I certainly don't.  Our kids have our phone numbers memorized, but I need to check to see if they have their grandparents' and local aunt & uncle's phone numbers memorized, too.  If they are ever separated from their phones and can't reach DH or me I need to be sure they can borrow a phone to call someone else approved to collect them.

 

And I need to make sure I have memorized the kids' phone numbers, too, just in case my phone goes dead or is stolen while I'm away from them.

 

I don't have my kids' or husband's numbers memorized.   They are in my phone... and written on a card in my wallet, so if I don't have access to my phone, I can reach them. 

 

[AMJ]

Although is 12 a young woman? 

 

For many, yes.  Some are that mature.

[Amira]

I agree that it's not absolutely necessary for anyone to have a cell phone.  There are other options as have been mentioned here.  Personally, I'm not a fan of cell phones and I rarely use one and obviously never did as a child. But that doesn't mean that it's unreasonable for a parent to want their child to have a cell phone on them.  I've been burned by my dislike for cell phones when I've been in an emergency because there aren't pay phones anymore and I never can remember my current home phone number or dh's current cell. I think the leaders/teachers/whoevers get to choose if a cell phone is used during their activity/in their classroom/whatever.  But I don't think they should be able to ban children from carrying a cell phone at all. 

[Reefgazer]

To the bolded:  Not really; I don't buy that blanket statement because I don't think trust and safety are the only issues when deciding on an activity.  As Moxie pointed out, sometimes our choices are limited and we opt for the lesser of two evils and do our best to work around the evils.  Not to mention, my kid should have free reign to contact me, emergency or not, for whatever reason she has.  My kid will be allowed her phone; not negotiable.

 

It's unfortunate the girl you were supervising ran off.  She likely didn't want to be there in the first place and was forced into by her parents and you paid the price.  You got entangled in a family problem.

1. If you don't trust the adults in charge to determine what an emergency is, then you shouldn't trust them with your kid.

 

2. The girl who disappeared and took off with her boyfriend wanted to hang out with a boyfriend instead of be in the activity......her mom later told me that she had been forbidden to see the boyfriend, blah, blah, blah....I could have cared less, what I cared about is a kid that I was responsible for decided to disappear on me.  Her mom (not the brightest penny) couldn't believe it when I wouldn't allow her back unless she left the phone at home.

 

[Reefgazer]

This behavior was quite common at the school where DD attended when she was in a B+M school.  So the entire school should revolt and leave?  As others have said, you work with what you've got.

I don't know any adult who would refuse a kid who wanted to call their parent, for any reason.  If I did, I certainly wouldn't leave my kid with them, regardless of whether the kid had a cellphone.
 

 

[Guest]

If a kid can't provide a phone number, they shouldn't be allowed out of their parents sight, literally. Weren't we all taught our phone numbers before we went to kindergarten?

 

I would have DIED to be tethered to my mother that way. Just mortified.

I have to check my phone to remember MY number. Clearly, my mother failed!

[Reflections]

You are NOT wrong. Break that asinine rule. Ask for forgiveness later, it's easier. 

 

IMO, some rules just scream to be broken.  And if my child wants to call me you can be damned sure I'm not going to rely on Susy Rulemaker to deign to allow my child to call home.  AND I really really really get the idea that if I waited for perfect my kids would be stereotypical UNsocialized homeschoolers.  Ask me how I know.

 

I get that we all (older ones, maybe) have all survived without cell phones.  Yay us!  BUT cell phones are a great invention, that have brought about great convenience and a greater sense of security.  I also survived high school and college without the internet or this message board.  Yay me!  But WOW is my life ever more enriched by this shared experience.  My grandparents survived without antibiotics - Yay them!  But BOY are they ever the lifesaver now.

 

Just because something is new and someone did fine without it once upon a time, doesn't make the new item worthless and without merit today.

[Reflections]

I have to check my phone to remember MY number. Clearly, my mother failed!

 

My dh always looks to me to recite our OWN home number.  I joke that I'm going to put a tag on his shoe in case he ever gets lost.  :glare:  :lol:

[AMJ]

If a kid can't provide a phone number, they shouldn't be allowed out of their parents sight, literally.  Weren't we all taught our phone numbers before we went to kindergarten?

 

I would have DIED to be tethered to my mother that way.  Just mortified.

 

Generally the kids I've encountered can tell you their parents' phone numbers.  But they can't necessarily tell you any others, which is what is needed when it is the parents who have gone inexplicably incommunicado.

 

Be embarrassed if you like.  My kids might roll their eyes, but they have seen how upset their own cousin was when caught in a communication bind.  They don't need to experience it themselves to appreciate the benefit, and sometimes need, for a personal line of communication, especially now that pay phones are becoming rare.  Because my kids have cell phones they are allowed opportunities they otherwise would not have been allowed without a parent actually in attendance, which -- guaranteed -- they would have found more embarrassing than carrying a charged-up phone. 

 

When my sister was dating and I was in college our Dad made a deal with the local cab company, basically opening an on-going account.  If my sis ever needed a ride home (date was no longer trusted, whatever) she could call and get a cab and Dad would settle the bill later.  This was before cell phones were common.  He saw the need to make sure she wouldn't be stranded anywhere. 

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I remember growing up before cell phones. We had this other thing that was readily available, everywhere but in the wilderness but even then you could hike to a gas station or ranger station and find one:

 

I am referring to the dear departed phone booth.

 

Also, another thing about the Good Ol' Days: This is my own personal experience; obviously others' mileage may vary, but I don't remember the adults being as controlling, yet lacking so much basic common sense, compared to leadership of today. I get the distinct impression (constantly) that the kids are less trustworthy yet more babied AND controlled, while the adults frequently don't know their ack from their elbow.

 

So in the past, a kid might have broken free from the group in an emergency situation if the adults weren't handling it correctly (or if more help were needed), found a phone booth or knocked on a household door and asked for help, and received a medal for it in his scout meeting the following Tuesday night. Now, not only must he never, ever step out of the line or climb out of the box; also he can't be trusted with a phone at all.

 

 

[Guest]

I remember growing up before cell phones. We had this other thing that was readily available, everywhere but in the wilderness but even then you could hike to a gas station or ranger station and find one:

 

I am referring to the dear departed phone booth.

 

Also, another thing about the Good Ol' Days: This is my own personal experience; obviously others' mileage may vary, but I don't remember the adults being as controlling, yet lacking so much basic common sense, compared to leadership of today. I get the distinct impression (constantly) that the kids are less trustworthy yet more babied AND controlled, while the adults frequently don't know their ack from their elbow.

 

So in the past, a kid might have broken free from the group in an emergency situation if the adults weren't handling it correctly (or if more help were needed), found a phone booth or knocked on a household door and asked for help, and received a medal for it in his scout meeting the following Tuesday night. Now, not only must he never, ever step out of the line or climb out of the box; also he can't be trusted with a phone at all.

Yep, keeping a cell phone on you is no different than the old quarter in your shoe, just in case.

[AndyJoy]

I don't know any adult who would refuse a kid who wanted to call their parent, for any reason. If I did, I certainly wouldn't leave my kid with them, regardless of whether the kid had a cellphone.

 

Same here. Pre-ubiquitous cell phones, I went to camps with no books/magazines/walkmans/CD players rules from age 11 to 18. The goal was to keep people from tuning out and missing out on the group experience. No one was prevented from calling a parent for homesickness or any other issue. I'd never send my kid if I thought the organizers would blow off his/her request to contact me.

[milovany]

I would have DIED to be tethered to my mother that way.  Just mortified.

 

I agree!  Absolutely.  I have to fight the modern-mama urge within me that wants me to require my kids to take a cell phone everywhere. And while I don't always succeed, I continue to fight the battle ... and overall, I'm winning over worry. [speaking of and to myself only -- y'all can handle it how you want.] 

 

 

When my sister was dating and I was in college our Dad made a deal with the local cab company, basically opening an on-going account.  If my sis ever needed a ride home (date was no longer trusted, whatever) she could call and get a cab and Dad would settle the bill later.  This was before cell phones were common.  He saw the need to make sure she wouldn't be stranded anywhere. 

 

That's not a tether.  It's a life boat tied up at the dock that she could use if needed. 

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Cell phones are only tethers if parents are controlling. My boys and I only use ours if actually needed, to inform of a change in plans or to communicate in an emergency. They don't have to tell me when they arrive or leave places, and I don't check up on them when they're away from home.

 

Their phone is not so I can reach them at all times. It's so they can reach whoever they want as their judgment dictates. (Also why I carry a phone...why everybody carries a phone...)

 

I don't understand this argument. Teens can be mortified by crazy parents whether a phone is involved or not, but the possession of a phone doesn't make a parent crazy if they weren't already.

[vonfirmath]

If a kid can't provide a phone number, they shouldn't be allowed out of their parents sight, literally.  Weren't we all taught our phone numbers before we went to kindergarten?

 

I would have DIED to be tethered to my mother that way.  Just mortified.

 

I don't know about before Kindergarten. But my son is in public school and they worked on it in K and again in 1st. Making sure the kids knew their full names, addresses and phone numbers of the adults they might need to contact.

[milovany]

That's not what I'm talking about, though, Tibbie.  My kids want to be out and about without the cell phone. It's the principle of the thing for them, and I'm happy to provide them that freedom for the most part. I also think there are skills they can learn, and confidence they can gain, by having to solve a problem without just calling mom because they can. They want this; they really do. (Again, talking about mine; not anyone else's.)  My 13yo daughter has been asking to ride her bike 2+ miles to town to go to the library on her own.  She's going to be doing this soon, and it will be without a cell phone.And I love it when they get to go through a situation without a cell phone, figuring things out as needed (even if "figuring it out" sometimes means asking an adult at the activity or whatever to use their phone; to me, that's akin to me having to find a payphone when I was in school). 

 

And the chances of a true emergency where there was no other way to get help but to call on your own phone (like being locked in the trunk of a car or crashed at the bottom of a ravine) are low enough for me to not let that worry win.  But that's the whole free-range/helicopter parent issue that has been dealt with ad nauseam elsewhere. 

[Lang Syne Boardie]

That's not what I'm talking about, though, Tibbie.  My kids want to be out and about without the cell phone. It's the principle of the thing for them, and I'm happy to provide them that freedom for the most part. I also think there are skills they can learn, and confidence they can gain, by having to solve a problem without just calling mom because they can. They want this; they really do. (Again, talking about mine; not anyone else's.)  My 13yo daughter has been asking to ride her bike 2+ miles to town to go to the library on her own.  She's going to be doing this soon, and it will be without a cell phone.And I love it when they get to go through a situation without a cell phone, figuring things out as needed (even if "figuring it out" sometimes means asking an adult at the activity or whatever to use their phone; to me, that's akin to me having to find a payphone when I was in school). 

 

And the chances of a true emergency where there was no other way to get help but to call on your own phone (like being locked in the trunk of a car or crashed at the bottom of a ravine) are low enough for me to not let that worry win.  But that's the whole free-range/helicopter parent issue that has been dealt with ad nauseam elsewhere. 

 

As a parent of free ranging teens who do have phones, I don't understand this mindset at all, because for my guys having the phone means they are more able to solve their own problems without me (or to have to ask other people for their phone when it's more independent to have their own phone -- what if there's nobody else around?)...totally an opposite perspective. They're no less independent with a phone than without it.

 

My kids are driving, and their activities take them an hour in every direction from 'way out in the country to the heart of our midwestern city. They've used their phones to rendezvous with friends for a music gig or to change the travel arrangements, to call a wrecker for a friend out on a country road an hour from home, to call emergency services in a bad situation in the bad part of the city, to call the bank's automated service to see if they have enough money in for the minor league baseball game...all the things adults use phones for. There's no dependence on parents here because of phones. There's young adult independence.

 

They only call me if there's an emergency, or a change in plans meaning they'll be home far later than expected, or to ask if I want them to pick up something from the grocery store because they're there. They don't call me to bail them out -- they're known for being more likely to bail other people out than to need rescued. But if they did need bailed out, who but their parents should be available, and how are most people available in 2015? Cell phone to cell phone.

 

My pre-driving teen borrows a family cell phone when he goes out, in case he wants to change his plans or in case the people he's with change their plans and he needs to tell me where to pick him up or whatever. He only calls me if he needs to; he's pretty self-sufficient. I don't want him stranded, left out of the activity because he couldn't get permission, or dependent upon some stranger with a phone to happen by if he's in trouble, but that doesn't mean he's afraid to be without me or calls for every little thing.

 

There's probably something big I'm missing that makes some kids feel more grown up without a phone, but I don't know what it is because grownups have phones...

[marbel]

That's not what I'm talking about, though, Tibbie.  My kids want to be out and about without the cell phone. It's the principle of the thing for them, and I'm happy to provide them that freedom for the most part. I also think there are skills they can learn, and confidence they can gain, by having to solve a problem without just calling mom because they can. They want this; they really do. (Again, talking about mine; not anyone else's.)  My 13yo daughter has been asking to ride her bike 2+ miles to town to go to the library on her own.  She's going to be doing this soon, and it will be without a cell phone.And I love it when they get to go through a situation without a cell phone, figuring things out as needed (even if "figuring it out" sometimes means asking an adult at the activity or whatever to use their phone; to me, that's akin to me having to find a payphone when I was in school). 

 

And the chances of a true emergency where there was no other way to get help but to call on your own phone (like being locked in the trunk of a car or crashed at the bottom of a ravine) are low enough for me to not let that worry win.  But that's the whole free-range/helicopter parent issue that has been dealt with ad nauseam elsewhere. 

 

I get both sides of this. 

 

It is good to be able to function without a cell phone.  It is good not to be completely dependent on it in order to do things, because even having a phone doesn't always mean it will help solve a problem.  Batteries die unexpectedly.  Cell service can be spotty in areas.

 

A friend once told me she got in trouble with a guide who was taking her (and a few other people) on a winter backpacking trip in the mountains - because she brought her cell phone.   He said having the cell gave people a false sense of security and they might engage in more risky behavior because they'd figure if something went wrong, they could just call for help. 

 

Phones are great.  I like being able to call the auto club and my husband if the car breaks down.  I like my kids to be able to reach me. But  I don't insist they take their phones everywhere and if there is an adult-led activity at which phones are prohibited, they leave their phones at home.

[ChristusG]

I'm a rule follower....but I'd send my kid with the phone with strict instructions to keep it on silent and not to touch it unless she must call you.

[milovany]

I guess a lot of it (for them) is probably the idea that I could call to check on them if they had a phone on them.  They've often heard me fondly speaking of my childhood when we ran all over town all day every day for most of the summer and after school Sept-June. So that's part of what's missing, I suppose. 

 

Also in my posts, I was sticking close to the OP's scenario (event that a child is attending) or something similar (a child wanting to go to the library and back), not applying it to all situations for all.ages. Yes, I do have a cell phone as do my older children and they are nice at times.  Given the OP's scenario, as described, I see no reason to break the rule and send the child with a hidden cell phone. None.  (She asked for opinions, that's mine.) 

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I think the message we're seeing in this thread (or the closest we'll get to Hive Mind unanimity) is this:

 

A. Possession of phones (or not) is a parental decision to be based on the family's factors, but

B. How and whether minor children use them at group events is very reasonably the decision of the adults in charge.

 

At least, that's what I think most of us would like to see, instead of an outright ban. It should be that any phones visible are immediately confiscated, to be returned at the end of the trip, but if a young person has a phone in her purse it should only be her business as long as she keeps it private. Obviously some are in favor of phone bans but it always seems to me in these threads that the majority would like rules on behavior, not on possession.

[NorthwestMom]

You might try to look at it from the organizer's POV.  I've been the organizer of a number of things for teens and cell phones are a CONSTANT problem.  It is, without fail, the #1 issue.  Kids spend the whole time texting, surfing the web, whatever.  In more active things, kids take pics of the activity and post them online, then we get nasty emails from OTHER kid's parents about "I never gave permission for pictures of my kids to be posted online".....I once had a girl say she was going to the bathroom (this girl was 16), she never came back!  She had called her boyfriend to come pick her up!  Can you imagine my panic when this girl disappeared?

 

 

:iagree:

 

 

Also, as Girl Scout leader, we prohibit cell phones because we will not be held liable for any breakage, loss, or theft.  So many kids set their phones down for a second and by the time they remember, they are gone.

 

If you don't trust the leaders to communicate well (and based on your ETA, I'd be leery of their maturity level), don't send the kid OR the phone.

[Wheres Toto]

I'm in the - let them have their cell phones for emergencies - camp.  My oldest had a cell phone starting when she was 9 so that she could call me when she was at her dad's house and not have to ask to use the house phone, or worry about him listening to her conversation.  Also, sometimes there are "emergencies" or reasons to contact a parent that a child would not want to share with a supervising adult.  If your daughter has a menstrual cycle issue, do you want her to have to ask her male coach to use his phone and explain why?   Many adults are not going to just hand a cell phone over to a child because they say they need one.  They are going to want to know why.

 

My oldest just drove down to Florida (from NJ) with 3 girl friends about the same age.  They left at 10pm on a Saturday night and drove all night long.  I'm VERY glad they all had cell phones and would not have to rely on the kindness of random strangers or searching for a pay phone if they had an issue during the ride down there, or while they are down there.

 

Dh never had a cell phone until we got married and I was pregnant with ds.  He used to go out fishing in the back bays by Atlantic City, often very early in the morning or in weather where most sane people wouldn't be out there (not dangerous just freezing cold or raining).  He'd be by himself, away from land.  Shortly after I made him get one, he ended up having to call for a tow when his boat motor died.  He would have had to wait a very long time for help and I would have had no way to know what was going on.

 

Just because most of us did okay without cell phones doesn't mean things aren't better with them available.  I was in a more than a couple of situations growing up that would have had a much better result if I had one.  And that was the days of pay phones everywhere.

[Guest]

I think the message we're seeing in this thread (or the closest we'll get to Hive Mind unanimity) is this:

 

A. Possession of phones (or not) is a parental decision to be based on the family's factors, but

B. How and whether minor children use them at group events is very reasonably the decision of the adults in charge.

 

At least, that's what I think most of us would like to see, instead of an outright ban. It should be that any phones visible are immediately confiscated, to be returned at the end of the trip, but if a young person has a phone in her purse it should only be her business as long as she keeps it private. Obviously some are in favor of phone bans but it always seems to me in these threads that the majority would like rules on behavior, not on possession.

I'll admit I went into this activity jaded because I know the leaders. The "modest dress" lecture always pisses me off (for many reasons). This feels like an extension of that. I'm the Mom; the stretch marks mean that I get to make the decisions. "No cell phone use during our awesome thing" is a great rule! "Don't you dare bring a cell phone" is not.

[Ellie]

I'll admit I went into this activity jaded because I know the leaders. The "modest dress" lecture always pisses me off (for many reasons). This feels like an extension of that. I'm the Mom; the stretch marks mean that I get to make the decisions. "No cell phone use during our awesome thing" is a great rule! "Don't you dare bring a cell phone" is not.

 

Well, when you're in charge of an event, you get to make the rules. When you are a participant, you get to follow the rules.

[TechWife]

A few more facts--

-The reason for the rule is because they want kids engaged and not playing on phones. I get that. I take issue with confiscating property. My dd has been told to leave her phone in her purse unless she is in a bathroom stall.

-This activity has a lot of unnecessary rules. No PDA. Modest dress only (it is March??). I know the people in charge and I'm sure they will not make an exception. They love their rules! It is also because I know the leaders that I want my dd to have a way to contact me without them.

 

Eta-at this activity last year, the adults told kids they needed a cell phone to try to trick them into showing that they had one. Adults acting like idiots piss me off

 

I don't have an issue with no PDA or modest dress (I live in the south, people are already wearing shorts). I do have an issue with adults trying to trick children. 

 

It doesn't sound like you trust the people in charge of this event, so why are you sending your children? 

[LizzyBee]

I am a rule-keeper by personality, but I don't agree with rules that keep kids from contacting their parents unless you know the people there very well. I understand that they don't want phones to be a distraction, but if you trust your daughter to keep it turned off and in her purse, I would send it with her.

[Amira]

Well, when you're in charge of an event, you get to make the rules. When you are a participant, you get to follow the rules.

 

I agree that the people in charge of the event get to make the rules about the event, and in this case that includes no cell phones at the event. But they only get to make rules about what happens at the event.  If the cell phone stays in a purse or in a pocket, it's not at the event any more than a tampon would be at the event if it were in someone's pocket or purse.  

[Joker]

That's not what I'm talking about, though, Tibbie.  My kids want to be out and about without the cell phone. It's the principle of the thing for them, and I'm happy to provide them that freedom for the most part. I also think there are skills they can learn, and confidence they can gain, by having to solve a problem without just calling mom because they can. They want this; they really do. (Again, talking about mine; not anyone else's.)  My 13yo daughter has been asking to ride her bike 2+ miles to town to go to the library on her own.  She's going to be doing this soon, and it will be without a cell phone.And I love it when they get to go through a situation without a cell phone, figuring things out as needed (even if "figuring it out" sometimes means asking an adult at the activity or whatever to use their phone; to me, that's akin to me having to find a payphone when I was in school). 

 

And the chances of a true emergency where there was no other way to get help but to call on your own phone (like being locked in the trunk of a car or crashed at the bottom of a ravine) are low enough for me to not let that worry win.  But that's the whole free-range/helicopter parent issue that has been dealt with ad nauseam elsewhere. 

 

They can do this while carrying a cell phone too, though. My dd was left behind in Disney World in the 7th grade on a class trip. She had her cell phone. She didn't call me to fix things for her. She called another student on the bus so they wouldn't leave without her. Then, she followed the signs for the monorail, asked a worker if it would take her to the parking lot she needed to be at, and found her way to the back of that lot and to her bus. I didn't find out about it until she was home. I'm glad she had the phone just in case something happened and she did need real help, though. My dds carry their phones with them, but they are not tethered to me in any way because of it. They don't have to check in with me and I do not check in with them.

[Guest]

I don't have an issue with no PDA or modest dress (I live in the south, people are already wearing shorts). I do have an issue with adults trying to trick children.

 

It doesn't sound like you trust the people in charge of this event, so why are you sending your children?

I have no problem with modesty either. But "modest dress" is horribly subjective. Maybe I think shorts are fine but tank tops are not. Maybe I think skinny jeans are the road to hell. If a leader wants a dress code, they need to make a dress code!

 

And, it never applies to boys. Yes, they always say "boys are expected to be modest too" but it is always the last sentance and it isn't fooling anyone. "Modest dress" = "girls, cover up!!".

 

And, it takes away my authority as bearer of the stretch marks. I buy my children appropriate clothes. An Amish person would disagree but, oh well, it is my kid!