MIL Hurts My Feelings

[bolt.]

I originally put this in the holiday vent thread, but I think I need some actual advice, so here it is.

 

My MIL ruined her own Chritmas event by letting all her (legitimate) stress and grief this season suddenly focus on *me* -- her impossible unreasonable incomprehensible DIL -- and blow off plenty of steam about me before dinner. She's still apparently pissed off about it as-of Church service this morning, if avoiding eye contact and refusing normal conversation is any indication. (She has plenty of normal social skills for other Church members.)

 

Now, I understand that I was the straw that broke the camel's back in this situation, but apparently what I did that ruined Christmas was request that my DH stay in the main social setting with the rest if his family instead of isolating himself with his dad for most of the family holiday visit.

 

She thinks that this means I hate visiting (when DH and his dad go isolate themselves) and view socializing with her (alone, for endless hours) as a chore -- which is pretty much true, but I do try to mind my manners about it. She did NOT mind her manners about what a terrible incomprehensible and unreasonable DIL it makes me that I don't actually seem to enjoy it -- in spite if doing it anyways (most days other than Christmas) and encouraging father-son individual visits besides.

 

I have a LOT of sympathy for the rest of her significant burdens -- which are real, and nothing to sneeze at. But my sympathy is significantly eroded by being the safe nearby object of her irrational anger. I get that she is too scared of the real problems to face them and recognize that she has strong feelings about them -- but -- really -- why do I get to be the butt here?

 

All I said was basically, "Hey, DH, it's Christmas. How 'bout you hang out with the rest of us?" -- and she thinks it's a complex unreasonable request for me to even imagine making. It's *her* own hubby that won't come out of the back room and doesn't want to see anyone but his son until food is actually on the table. And it's *her* that decides that when My DH does join FIL in isolation, that the most hospitality she can offer is TV for my kids and a kitchen chair for me while she cooks in silence or occasionally mentions the various illnesses of her family and friends. (If I'm not visibly enjoying that, I must be impossible to please! Gee, what on earth can she do that could help the situation? She's at her wits end, all bent out if shape just trying to please me - hah!)

 

Anyhow. I didn't say any of that. I tried to be sympathetic and conciliatory. To me, it's not nice to try to even-out the reality of the situation when the other person is actually suffering, even if it's actually for a completely different reason.

 

I've decided to try to 'do better' at carrying conversation by 1. Memorizing funny anicdotes, and 2. Attempting to find any topic that will get her talking that isn't depressing. Plus, I guess, I can 3. insert fake smiles. It bugs the ever-living snot out if me that what she really wants is a fake relationship with a different kind of DIL when the I actually am a lovely person, and I genuinely care about her.

 

Venting is helpful. Sympathy and insight are welcome -- VERY welcome. I'm really out of my depth with this kind of drama in real life. She will probably hold a grudge until she airs it in a few years. Her good manners will probably return in about 3 weeks.

[prairiewindmomma]

Have you tried bringing a book to read? Is FIL well enough to join the event? Is she generally passive-aggressive?

 

My best advice is to read the book Boundaries if you havent already and then decide not to be upset by her emotional manipulation. Once I could accept that my MIL and I would never likely have a happy/healthy relationship, I could let go of that ideal and deal with that reality.

[Seasider]

I originally put this in the holiday vent thread, but I think I need some actual advice, so here it is.

 

My MIL ruined her own Chritmas event by letting all her (legitimate) stress and grief this season suddenly focus on *me* -- her impossible unreasonable incomprehensible DIL -- and blow off plenty of steam about me before dinner. She's still apparently pissed off about it as-of Church service this morning, if avoiding eye contact and refusing normal conversation is any indication. (She has plenty of normal social skills for other Church members.)

 

Now, I understand that I was the straw that broke the camel's back in this situation, but apparently what I did that ruined Christmas was request that my DH stay in the main social setting with the rest if his family instead of isolating himself with his dad for most of the family holiday visit.

 

She thinks that this means I hate visiting (when DH and his dad go isolate themselves) and view socializing with her (alone, for endless hours) as a chore -- which is pretty much true, but I do try to mind my manners about it. She did NOT mind her manners about what a terrible incomprehensible and unreasonable DIL it makes me that I don't actually seem to enjoy it -- in spite if doing it anyways (most days other than Christmas) and encouraging father-son individual visits besides.

 

I have a LOT of sympathy for the rest of her significant burdens -- which are real, and nothing to sneeze at. But my sympathy is significantly eroded by being the safe nearby object of her irrational anger. I get that she is too scared of the real problems to face them and recognize that she has strong feelings about them -- but -- really -- why do I get to be the butt here?

 

All I said was basically, "Hey, DH, it's Christmas. How 'bout you hang out with the rest of us?" -- and she thinks it's a complex unreasonable request for me to even imagine making. It's *her* own hubby that won't come out of the back room and doesn't want to see anyone but his son until food is actually on the table. And it's *her* that decides that when My DH does join FIL in isolation, that the most hospitality she can offer is TV for my kids and a kitchen chair for me while she cooks in silence or occasionally mentions the various illnesses of her family and friends. (If I'm not visibly enjoying that, I must be impossible to please! Gee, what on earth can she do that could help the situation? She's at her wits end, all bent out if shape just trying to please me - hah!)

 

Anyhow. I didn't say any of that. I tried to be sympathetic and conciliatory. To me, it's not nice to try to even-out the reality of the situation when the other person is actually suffering, even if it's actually for a completely different reason.

 

I've decided to try to 'do better' at carrying conversation by 1. Memorizing funny anicdotes, and 2. Attempting to find any topic that will get her talking that isn't depressing. Plus, I guess, I can 3. insert fake smiles. It bugs the ever-living snot out if me that what she really wants is a fake relationship with a different kind of DIL when the I actually am a lovely person, and I genuinely care about her.

 

Venting is helpful. Sympathy and insight are welcome -- VERY welcome. I'm really out of my depth with this kind of drama in real life. She will probably hold a grudge until she airs it in a few years. Her good manners will probably return in about 3 weeks.

I must say, bolt, you are a gem for thinking of that list. A nice olive branch, there. My dh knows that I should not be left one on one with my MIL! (FWIW, he gets plenty of father-son time with his dad on other occasions.) Anyway, your plan for interacting with your mil both convicts and inspires me. Thank you for "venting" it.

[bolt.]

Have you tried bringing a book to read? Is FIL well enough to join the event? Is she generally passive-aggressive?

 

My best advice is to read the book Boundaries if you havent already and then decide not to be upset by her emotional manipulation. Once I could accept that my MIL and I would never likely have a happy/healthy relationship, I could let go of that ideal and deal with that reality.

I have tried reading, even though I think it's rude, because it closes off the impression that I might be interested in being social -- her hurt revolves around the idea that I'm bored, don't value her and/or don't like her (and/or that I am the younger one so I'm supposed to do the relationship work for the sake of 'respect' maybe?) I don't think it makes sense to broadcast that the boredom part is true.

 

FIL is perfectly well. He just likes doing music or computers with his son more than anything else in the world -- so he sits in the back room either expecting it or resenting that he isn't getting it, until he is called for supper.

 

Yes, she is passive aggressive. She was raised to believe anything more overt is pretty much a sin, so she doesn't have a lot of options.

 

Yes, I've read boundaries and have good ones. That's why I asked my DH to do what I wanted him to (ie not disappear) and was sympathetic but not a jellyfish during the resulting MIL meltdown.

 

I'd like her to be happy, so I have the impulse to somewhat set my own enjoyment on the back burner for a few hours every few weeks -- just as a no-strings gift. I don't put up with more than I choose to, but I still don't like being irrationally made the butt of someone else's difficult season. It was just an outburst, and not an insane one, and I don't blame myself -- but it still did hurt my feelings.

 

I'm content to mind my manners and hold my boundaries... I just wish that I could also help her a bit more. She could use the support.

[MeAndTheBoys]

You're doing a good job--really.  I have some MIL issues and I am not very gracious.  I'm not ugly to her at all, but I really try to avoid contact often.  She needs us, but there is so much drama.  She has told me that SHE was very good about calling her MIL daily and visiting and keeping her company, and resents that I am "busy".

 

I have no input, for sure; you are helping me more than I can help you---

 

B

[bolt.]

I must say, bolt, you are a gem for thinking of that list. A nice olive branch, there. My dh knows that I should not be left one on one with my MIL! (FWIW, he gets plenty of father-son time with his dad on other occasions.) Anyway, your plan for interacting with your mil both convicts and inspires me. Thank you for "venting" it.

Thanks, I'm glad it's a good list. It doesn't seem fair, but it is kind. Kindness matters in families. Do you think it will actually help? I'm worried that it will be one more thing on the side of 'I'm trying why aren't you?' -- I don't want to increase my effort just to end up increasing my resentment.

[Alicia64]

I think what DH and your father in law are doing is rude too. I'm betting that your mom has some sort of narcissistic disorder -- because this is not normal behavior. i don't care how bad her problems are -- we all have problems and we don't go off on people like she did to you.

 

I think we cut people like this way too much slack -- allowing them to continue abusing. (It'll take her three weeks for proper -- adult -- behavior to return?! That's ridiculous.)

 

You can extend "olive branches" all you like. It won't do any good. She'll find a million "reasons" to act like a toddler. Plus I think bringing a book to read during a holiday is . . .not at all fair to you.

 

I guess you can tell I've had it up to here with dealing w/ this type of person. Sadly, they don't improve.

 

Alley

[gardenmom5]

. It's *her* own hubby that won't come out of the back room and doesn't want to see anyone but his son until food is actually on the table.

 

so - who's avoiding whom?  enquiring minds want to know.  :bigear:  one of them doesn't want to spend time with the other.  and your dh and yourself have been dragged into the middle.  (and I'll bet fil doesn't want to spend time with his wife.) :auto:

 

:grouphug: consider the source, dont' knock yourself out trying to make a perpetually unsatisfied person happy.  nothing you do will ever be good enough.  do your best to be civil and polite, and let it go out the other ear.  dh was *very good* at being excruciatingly cheerful and polite with my grandmother.  it absolutely drove her insane.  while it will work - it is very hard for someone already sensitized to untoward behavior to do on a regular basis.

 

DO protect your children from ever thinking this nonsense is healthy, okay, or normal.  DO read up on boundaries, and put appropriate suggestions into practice.

[Farrar]

I think I get it. I also don't always like my mil. She's a good person, very kind, loves all of us, does her best. I love and care about her as family very much. But small talk with her can drive me batty. And she makes some really odd choices that I really struggle not to be judgey about. She's not someone I would get along with necessarily if I just met her in another context. It's only through our family ties that I've come to care about her.

 

I think you have a super healthy attitude about it. She was unfair to you, but you recognize that it was a moment of stress and are being forgiving. You have a strategy for making things better.

[trulycrabby]

I think you know that you will never, ever please her, so just continue being your lovely, generous self, and walk away from her meltdowns if possible. Normally I would say not to take things personally, but I think you already do a great job handling her. :grouphug:

[gardenmom5]

if she does have some sort of NPD - your dh and even your fil are both so sensitized to it that it can be hard to change patterns.  there is a lot of history with which they are dealing.

 

dh was able to be perpetually cheerful with my grandmother - and did so easily.  (she *hated* it!)  it wasn't easy for me - even when I understood the theory.  too much history.

Thanks, I'm glad it's a good list. It doesn't seem fair, but it is kind. Kindness matters in families. Do you think it will actually help? I'm worried that it will be one more thing on the side of 'I'm trying why aren't you?' -- I don't want to increase my effort just to end up increasing my resentment.

 

[momacacia]

It's your DH's "fault" for not going back to FIL's room this time. He made the final decision about what HE was going to do. You merely mentioned that you'd like him to stay out with you and the kids. This is all on him, not you, regardless of the fact that your MIL doesn't want to pin the truth of her darling son having a new family and responsibilities on him. This doesn't have anything to do with you. Just sayin'. ;)

[hornblower]

I'm not quite clear on this situation. Were you staying at her home? Or is this a before dinner thing?

Though actually, it wouldn't matter because my answer is the same. Do not get separated from your dh at these events. Speak to your dh beforehand and insist that he stay by your side or by your children's side. If there's something that needs seeing/doing in the back with fil, everyone goes. If everything is hunky dory & people are happy to be doing separate things, then that's different. The moment there's tension or unhappiness, close ranks. You & dh & your kids are a unit and should function as one.

I'd never stay at their home. And I'd start coming closer and closer to the actual meal, so there's none of the dragged out waiting while someone cooks but doesn't want you to help but wants you to talk but doesn't like what you talk about  blah blah blah . You won't make her happy. It's not you. It's her (& him. sounds like fil has his own suitcase of crap he's dragging through life).

And the fact is, the child (your dh) has an even harder time seeing this dysfunctional stuff or distancing themselves... so the IL child frequently has to be the one to set the boundaries and rules. It's not unreasonable for you to ask your dh to be with you. Don't sweat it.  In my books, you've been much too nice already.

[bolt.]

so - who's avoiding whom? enquiring minds want to know. :bigear: one of them doesn't want to spend time with the other. and your dh and yourself have been dragged into the middle. (and I'll bet fil doesn't want to spend time with his wife.) :auto:

 

:grouphug: consider the source, dont' knock yourself out trying to make a perpetually unsatisfied person happy. nothing you do will ever be good enough. do your best to be civil and polite, and let it go out the other ear. dh was *very good* at being excruciatingly cheerful and polite with my grandmother. it absolutely drove her insane. while it will work - it is very hard for someone already sensitized to untoward behavior to do on a regular basis.

 

DO protect your children from ever thinking this nonsense is healthy, okay, or normal. DO read up on boundaries, and put appropriate suggestions into practice.

It's not marital avoidance. It's FIL being somewhat-honestly introverted/antisocial (esp after brunch at our house) and also him being fairly self-centred about getting the very best kind of holiday for himself, and MIL supporting the idea that the he just deserves to have everything arranged to his preferences.

 

It's me bring dragged into a gendered situation of 'men get what they want / women have kitchen life / children get screen time so they can be out of the way' and me bucking those assumptions fairly firmly. (And sr man decides what the men want, and sr woman expects some kind of treatment that is completely opaque to me.)

 

Yes, civil, and as just exactly much effort as I'm willing to put in for free, without expecting anything in return.

[bolt.]

It's your DH's "fault" for not going back to FIL's room this time. He made the final decision about what HE was going to do. You merely mentioned that you'd like him to stay out with you and the kids. This is all on him, not you, regardless of the fact that your MIL doesn't want to pin the truth of her darling son having a new family and responsibilities on him. This doesn't have anything to do with you. Just sayin'. ;)

But, you see, (from MIL perspective) there wouldn't be any problem if I was properly selfless, sacrificial, flexible martyr -- because that's what 'good wife' means to her, and she can't believe that I am comfortable wanting things, saying them, and expecting it to matter. To her this is a very uppity way for a woman to behave towards her husband.

[VeteranMom]

I've come to the conclusion that it's okay if I don't like my MIL.  It doesn't make me a bad person and I can't fix her and her unusual habits.  I don't have to go out of my way to be exposed to her, either.  Just because we are both females doesn't mean we get to be segregated from the males in our lives.  You shouldn't have to be her punching bag.  If your dh expects you to spend time with her every week, you should be able to set down some ground rules (not being left alone with her should be one of those rules).  That one thing has helped me tremendously over the past few years.  Your dh and his Dad need to find other time for their one on one visits.  You sound like a very classy gal.  I'm sorry you are having to put up with the unnecessary drama.      

[idnib]

Does she have any particular interest or hobby? I'm wondering if you can find a really cool podcast ahead of time and bring it for you guys to listen to together. It won't be as aloof as reading and it will show you put some thought into her interests while allowing some non-conversational time.

 

I don't see this changing unless you stop going or your DH bucks the system himself.

[bolt.]

I'm not quite clear on this situation. Were you staying at her home? Or is this a before dinner thing?

 

Though actually, it wouldn't matter because my answer is the same. Do not get separated from your dh at these events. Speak to your dh beforehand and insist that he stay by your side or by your children's side. If there's something that needs seeing/doing in the back with fil, everyone goes. If everything is hunky dory & people are happy to be doing separate things, then that's different. The moment there's tension or unhappiness, close ranks. You & dh & your kids are a unit and should function as one.

 

I'd never stay at their home. And I'd start coming closer and closer to the actual meal, so there's none of the dragged out waiting while someone cooks but doesn't want you to help but wants you to talk but doesn't like what you talk about blah blah blah . You won't make her happy. It's not you. It's her (& him. sounds like fil has his own suitcase of crap he's dragging through life).

 

And the fact is, the child (your dh) has an even harder time seeing this dysfunctional stuff or distancing themselves... so the IL child frequently has to be the one to set the boundaries and rules. It's not unreasonable for you to ask your dh to be with you. Don't sweat it. In my books, you've been much too nice already.

It was a before-dinner thing. It wasn't supposed to be, but the turkey was running very late. (because my MIL has no idea that partially cooking a turkey, chilling it, then trying to do it 'the rest of the way' means that it starts from fridge temp the 2nd time too.)

 

We had agreed on about 30 min of music after supper, not 2h of music before a very late supper. DH thought that there would be no time after, so he would do it before (until supper -- which he didn't actually believe would be very long) -- but apparently only I really understood that turkey cooks in a predictably linear fashion. 2h more was how long it was gong to take, and it did.

 

We did try to arrive close to meal time. We generally do. Or they go early, and I come for supper only.

 

Thanks!

[bolt.]

Does she have any particular interest or hobby? I'm wondering if you can find a really cool podcast ahead of time and bring it for you guys to listen to together. It won't be as aloof as reading and it will show you put some thought into her interests while allowing some non-conversational time.

 

I don't see this changing unless you stop going or your DH bucks the system himself.

Her interests are hand crafts (ie embroidery) kids crafts (ie rainbow loom) and other people's health problems. I think podcasts on that might be a bit of a bust. But I'll put thought into the general idea and see if anything percolates.

[Kiara.I]

I also have a non-communicating, surface-topics-only MIL.  And a gathering-avoiding DH.

 

So coping techniques I have tried include also hiding out in another room (probably not the best) and my only winning technique for MIL visits is knitting.  Seriously.  I can ignore her and do my thing, but I'm there, present, in the room.  (Crochet, embroidery, kumihimo or scrimshaw should all work similarly.)  When she makes comments I'm there to answer.

 

In terms of the venting on you...hmm....

Do you want to overlook?  Confront?  Address the pattern?

 

[Guest Keilleaghn]

My heart goes out to you.  I have a similar situation with my inlaws.  We live several states away and see them only once or twice a year.  So when we are together my fil would like nothing better than to spend the entire time alone with my dh.  My mil and I are almost polar opposites in every regard.  Honestly, pretty much the only thing we have in common is that we love dh and the kids.  So time together is....umm....tense? awkward?

 

I do some of the same things you do: actively storing up anecdotes I think will be interesting to her....primarily about the kids, and spending time prepping myself emotionally for their arrival.  I also talk to dh before they arrive about him not being sucked into spending all his time with his dad.  (Honestly, he does a great job of balancing the time.  It's fil that won't engage with anyone else.)

 

I know that some of mil's attitude is a reflection of very real hurt she feels:  she wants to spend time with dh also, and her feelings and wants are discounted by fil.  Her time with me is awkward for her as well.....once we run out of "safe" topics, that's it. Unfortunately, she isn't a safe person emotionally, so the kids give her a fairly wide berth as well.  She ends up being pretty much alone.  I really feel for her.  But at the same time, man oh man, is it hard work to be with her.  I've had to recognize and accept her for who she is.  And the reality is that she just doesn't have that much to give, understandable given her history.  I love her, and I want to honor her.  So my gift to her is working hard to let her know that I'm glad she is there....and perservering through the difficulty.

 

It is hard to bear the brunt of the frustration and anger she feels.  The passive aggressive snarky comments, eye-rolling, and heavy sighs drive me. up. the. wall.  I feel your pain.  And at some point I usually have to pull the kids aside and talk them down.  But all that aside, she is simply a broken, hurting woman.  And while it's not my job to fix or enable her, my desire is to love her in a way that she can hopefully receive. 

 

So, not much advice.  But you're not alone.  It is a difficult place to be.  I have to remind myself that she is acting out of her pain and dysfunction, and to remove the personal feel of the attack, and to really see her for who she is....a broken, hurting woman (Sound familiar?  It becomes my mantra when I am around her/them.)

 

It sounds like you have put all the right boundaries in place, and are honoring her in a very loving manner.  And while she may not be able to see/receive it, you are speaking life to her through those choices.  

 

I am sorry that you are hurting.

 

~Keilleaghn

[momacacia]

So your options are:

Don't to at all.

Watch TV with the kids.

Take a book or surf your phone.

Attempt chit-chat and get into the saga of her friends' health issues (take notes. this could be a book someday)

 

Tell her to bag it and put her in her place when she is rude to you. Load her up with the guilt of all you do for her and how you come to visit even when you don't want to and bring her grandkids over (guilt trip, poor little you, etc. Cry if you can. Lol.) Put all the carp back on her. And then tell her you won't put up with it anymore. She doesn't get to treat you badly just because she's old and you're a female. Those days are over. It a new generation and she needs to get used to it. Maybe you're her wake-up call. Lol. She may never talk to you again and won't that be a blessing. ;)

[Storygirl]

Bolt, this sounds like a really sad situation. I would be uncomfortable with it, too. I'm wondering if you mentioned the thing to your husband about staying with you while you were in her hearing. If so, I'd suggest talking it over with him before you get there the next time, so that she doesn't hear you saying it.

 

Does your husband cook at all? Can he bring something that is partially made (a salad that needs to be put together or a cheese plate that needs to be assembled) and work on it in the kitchen while conversing with his mom and you?

 

Can you take an activity for the kids -- a puzzle or game or simple craft -- and sit near your MIL while she cooks, doing it with the kids? That way you can have some additional people to talk to, and they don't get placed in front of the tv.

 

Can you host the dinner at your house instead? Can you help her with the cooking instead of just watching her? Can you ask her to teach her how to make whatever recipe she is putting together, so that you are interacting and having something to discuss?

 

Can your husband talk to his dad about this? I understand being introverted and valuing time alone, but your FIL is contributing to the tension. Would he be open to changing? Perhaps he is unaware that his choices are making others unhappy and would be willing to accommodate. Your husband would have to be diplomatic with this discussion.

 

You may have tried these things already, but I thought I'd toss them out there.

 

I'm sorry your feelings were hurt. It's likely that her feelings are hurt, as well, not because you did anything wrong, but because she feels that her ways are being rejected. You can't change her but can only change the approach that you take. Some of your ideas for coming up with conversation starters are a good starting point. I know that you shouldn't have to fix this issue, but it doesn't sound like anyone else is making an effort to improve things, so if you want them to improve, you might have to initiate.

 

I'd also say that I think it is your husband's job to work this out, not yours, but that doesn't mean that he will be able and/or willing to do it. Does your husband understand the issues and why they concern you?

[bolt.]

I also have a non-communicating, surface-topics-only MIL. And a gathering-avoiding DH.

 

So coping techniques I have tried include also hiding out in another room (probably not the best) and my only winning technique for MIL visits is knitting. Seriously. I can ignore her and do my thing, but I'm there, present, in the room. (Crochet, embroidery, kumihimo or scrimshaw should all work similarly.) When she makes comments I'm there to answer.

 

In terms of the venting on you...hmm....

Do you want to overlook? Confront? Address the pattern?

I think MIL would be ecstatic if I took up a womanly handicraft like knitting. Maybe that's the mystery 'thing' that I'm supposed to be doing in my opaque role. (It's totally not my thing -- though I do see how it would fit nicely into the dynamic.)

 

I want to strategize and look towards some amelioration in a one-sided non-confrontational way that isn't too much effort. Otherwise, I'm ok to to endure/overlook.

[Laurie4b]

Ok, an alternate perspective just to throw it out there (it could be off):

 

For our generation, the way that your way FIL and MIL organize their world is odd; however, the MIL in the kitchen and the FIL doing whatever he wants (though not necessarily secluded)  is the way everyone my parents' age and above do it or did it who I know, though my dad now helps in the kitchen with his second wife. That is new behavior. So for your MIL's generation, what they are doing might seem perfectly "normal" and their expectations are "normal."  If that is indeed their perspective, then from their point of view, your behavior does indicate conflict with them personally because the way they do things is the way it's supposed to be. You're throwing a wrench into what is supposed to be normal.  No suggestions, just a possible way to look at what might be part of the conflict.

 

Your mil and fil do things exactly the way my grandparents did it.  And there would have been an "issue" had someone called someone who was down with granddad back to the main group. No one was NPD, though I think that grandfather probably had Asperger's or that he was otherwise on the autism spectrum. He did best socially 1:1; he had one thing that he was focused on; and he directed the conversation (pretty much a monologue.)

 

A suggestion for  conversation is to ask questions. You can ask questions about her childhood, about your dh when he was young, etc. and given what you ask, you're likely to find some very interesting stories.

 

You might consider getting to know, via her stories, her various friends and their ailments. Play detective, ask about their lives enough to make them real people to you. I know that you're a Christian, so you could even consider praying for them as you get to "know" them through her. Once they are "real" to you, it will be natural to ask how they are doing.

 

Older people do talk about their ailments. (This is a good reminder to me, with regard to the ones I've developed, to try to keep them out of the conversation!)  Their degenerating bodies simply require a lot of their focus, just as a mom of a toddler has a lot of her focus absorbed by the toddler and at a social gathering, it's likely to be what she will talk about. For the elderly, there are doctor's appointments, insurance issues,  exercises to do, figuring out how to do things that used to be easy, adjusting self-concept to a "new normal" with certain ailments, etc. It can honestly be consuming. Most of it involves loss of some sort and what seems like complaining can be processing the loss.  Their friends are going through the same things. You probably know all that, but it might help your frame of mind as you listen to it.

 

[bolt.]

So your options are:

Don't to at all.

Watch TV with the kids.

Take a book or surf your phone.

Attempt chit-chat and get into the saga of her friends' health issues (take notes. this could be a book someday)

 

Tell her to bag it and put her in her place when she is rude to you. Load her up with the guilt of all you do for her and how you come to visit even when you don't want to and bring her grandkids over (guilt trip, poor little you, etc. Cry if you can. Lol.) Put all the carp back on her. And then tell her you won't put up with it anymore. She doesn't get to treat you badly just because she's old and you're a female. Those days are over. It a new generation and she needs to get used to it. Maybe you're her wake-up call. Lol. She may never talk to you again and won't that be a blessing. ;)

So my options are:

- "Ruin the holidays" for DH, MIL, FIL and probably the kids and create rifts that will endure for years

- Bore myself silly, waste valuable time, wonder why we all came, and still disappoint her by rejecting her company and behaving like a child

- Be rude, aloof, addicted to tech, and still did disappoint and offend her because I am openly ignoring her.

- Attempt chit-chat. Remember to be conversationally passive (no advice or opinions) and active (how?) at the same time. Bored to tears: showing it or faking it. And still disappoint her because I suck at content less conversation AND at faking enjoyment.

 

Yeah, I'm really jazzed with the options.

 

I've done the crying thing (post-baby) and it actually does work. Too bad I have nothing to cry about -- and I'd be admitting weakness in front if an 'adversary' -- and I'd have to be pushed pretty far to be intentionally hurtful to a woman who us already going through a tremendous amount of crud.

 

It's pretty clear that I need to avoid what I can, and bring my best conversation whenever I'm able to.

[Seasider]

Thanks, I'm glad it's a good list. It doesn't seem fair, but it is kind. Kindness matters in families. Do you think it will actually help? I'm worried that it will be one more thing on the side of 'I'm trying why aren't you?' -- I don't want to increase my effort just to end up increasing my resentment.

For the record, my earlier "olive branch" response is/was based on my understanding that bolt has good regular boundaries in place, interacts with mil on an infrequent (and not as a houseguest) basis as an act of kindness while maintaining said boundaries, is capable explaining things to her kids adequately, knows not to ever allow them to be unsupervised with this person, and knows when to remove them from the scene of a tantrum (well, *now* you know, on that last one, if you didn't before!). I base this on the OP above and from bolt's demonstrated rationality in other threads over the years.

 

I do think it's a good list. Will it change things? Who can say. There's no predicting how an irrational person will react. But this is sort of like extending forgiveness - it's more about you, and your heart, and finding peace there. I do believe that if you give this strategy a try, you will know that you made the effort. That should give you peace and freedom. Hopefully it will soften her heart and her reactions, but maybe it won't. Maybe she will react with suspicion. You can't predict or control her behavior. Time will tell.

 

I do believe that you have every right to stand up, should you again become the object of her wrath, and state clearly, "You are being unreasonable. I do not have to listen to this. Maybe we can talk again when you calm down." Then make your exit, taking along whatever people came with you.

But definitely talk it through with your husband, so he will be ready to support you.

[NorthwestMom]

I originally put this in the holiday vent thread, but I think I need some actual advice, so here it is.

 

My MIL ruined her own Chritmas event by letting all her (legitimate) stress and grief this season suddenly focus on *me* -- her impossible unreasonable incomprehensible DIL -- and blow off plenty of steam about me before dinner. She's still apparently pissed off about it as-of Church service this morning, if avoiding eye contact and refusing normal conversation is any indication. (She has plenty of normal social skills for other Church members.)

 

Now, I understand that I was the straw that broke the camel's back in this situation, but apparently what I did that ruined Christmas was request that my DH stay in the main social setting with the rest if his family instead of isolating himself with his dad for most of the family holiday visit.

 

She thinks that this means I hate visiting (when DH and his dad go isolate themselves) and view socializing with her (alone, for endless hours) as a chore -- which is pretty much true, but I do try to mind my manners about it. She did NOT mind her manners about what a terrible incomprehensible and unreasonable DIL it makes me that I don't actually seem to enjoy it -- in spite if doing it anyways (most days other than Christmas) and encouraging father-son individual visits besides.

 

I have a LOT of sympathy for the rest of her significant burdens -- which are real, and nothing to sneeze at. But my sympathy is significantly eroded by being the safe nearby object of her irrational anger. I get that she is too scared of the real problems to face them and recognize that she has strong feelings about them -- but -- really -- why do I get to be the butt here?

 

All I said was basically, "Hey, DH, it's Christmas. How 'bout you hang out with the rest of us?" -- and she thinks it's a complex unreasonable request for me to even imagine making. It's *her* own hubby that won't come out of the back room and doesn't want to see anyone but his son until food is actually on the table. And it's *her* that decides that when My DH does join FIL in isolation, that the most hospitality she can offer is TV for my kids and a kitchen chair for me while she cooks in silence or occasionally mentions the various illnesses of her family and friends. (If I'm not visibly enjoying that, I must be impossible to please! Gee, what on earth can she do that could help the situation? She's at her wits end, all bent out if shape just trying to please me - hah!)

 

Anyhow. I didn't say any of that. I tried to be sympathetic and conciliatory. To me, it's not nice to try to even-out the reality of the situation when the other person is actually suffering, even if it's actually for a completely different reason.

 

I've decided to try to 'do better' at carrying conversation by 1. Memorizing funny anicdotes, and 2. Attempting to find any topic that will get her talking that isn't depressing. Plus, I guess, I can 3. insert fake smiles. It bugs the ever-living snot out if me that what she really wants is a fake relationship with a different kind of DIL when the I actually am a lovely person, and I genuinely care about her.

 

Venting is helpful. Sympathy and insight are welcome -- VERY welcome. I'm really out of my depth with this kind of drama in real life. She will probably hold a grudge until she airs it in a few years. Her good manners will probably return in about 3 weeks.

 

My ILs are crazy and my DH will be in counseling forever to try to recover from their covertly abusive, dysfunctional ways, so I feel your pain. Luckily we live across the country so we don't see them often. 

 

I am the least-favorite visitor to the ILs' house when we all go, but I am the most powerful of all of them, and they are all cowed by me. Why, you ask? Let me tell you. I WILL NOT be the object of someone's irrational anger, passive aggressiveness, or indirect criticism, and I will not play by the secret family rule that no one is allowed to say that FIL or MIL acted badly or hurt people's feelings. I just calmly and directly say, "Don't speak to me that way. It's rude. We will leave if you continue." I act like I'm their pastor or something - someone respectable and above their pecking order. If they continue, WE LEAVE.  If I encounter MIL and she's ignoring me passive-aggressively, I'd ask her directly, "Why are you ignoring me? Do you need to share something?" and if she can't discuss her emotions respectfully, I leave. 

 

It only took a few interactions like that to get them in line. I will NOT be the object of someone's crazy, and I sure won't model that for my kids to see. The upshot is that MIL visits occasionally, and FIL will not come to our house, although he is fairly friendly when we go to theirs (once every few years). 

 

Your plan to memorize funny anecdotes, etc is a good way to manage the calm times, but I encourage you to set boundaries around how you will be treated during the bad times.

 

Good luck.   :grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

[Seasider]

But, you see, (from MIL perspective) there wouldn't be any problem if I was properly selfless, sacrificial, flexible martyr -- because that's what 'good wife' means to her, and she can't believe that I am comfortable wanting things, saying them, and expecting it to matter. To her this is a very uppity way for a woman to behave towards her husband.

I think there must have been a whole generation of women who read the same sort of "be the perfect Christian wife" books. I *totally* get this and have just in the past few years experienced an epiphany about my own people-pleasing behaviors. I have finally recognized that I only have to be a good wife to MY OWN husband and the way that looks doesn't seem to make sense to... the generation that was trained the other way!

[NorthwestMom]

I think MIL would be ecstatic if I took up a womanly handicraft like knitting. Maybe that's the mystery 'thing' that I'm supposed to be doing in my opaque role. (It's totally not my thing -- though I do see how it would gut nicely into the dynamic.)

 

I want to strategize and look towards some amelioration in a one-sided non-confrontational way that isn't too much effort. Otherwise, I'm ok to to endure/overlook.

 

I just saw this, so my previous answer isn't much help. I do appreciate that you are willing to endure and overlook, and are looking for redirection and alternate activities, etc. However, being the focus of her irrational anger, as you put it in the OP, will not change under those conditions. 

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

[bolt.]

Bolt, this sounds like a really sad situation. I would be uncomfortable with it, too. I'm wondering if you mentioned the thing to your husband about staying with you while you were in her hearing. If so, I'd suggest talking it over with him before you get there the next time, so that she doesn't hear you saying it.

 

Does your husband cook at all? Can he bring something that is partially made (a salad that needs to be put together or a cheese plate that needs to be assembled) and work on it in the kitchen while conversing with his mom and you?

 

Can you take an activity for the kids -- a puzzle or game or simple craft -- and sit near your MIL while she cooks, doing it with the kids? That way you can have some additional people to talk to, and they don't get placed in front of the tv.

 

Can you host the dinner at your house instead? Can you help her with the cooking instead of just watching her? Can you ask her to teach her how to make whatever recipe she is putting together, so that you are interacting and having something to discuss?

 

Can your husband talk to his dad about this? I understand being introverted and valuing time alone, but your FIL is contributing to the tension. Would he be open to changing? Perhaps he is unaware that his choices are making others unhappy and would be willing to accommodate. Your husband would have to be diplomatic with this discussion.

 

You may have tried these things already, but I thought I'd toss them out there.

 

I'm sorry your feelings were hurt. It's likely that her feelings are hurt, as well, not because you did anything wrong, but because she feels that her ways are being rejected. You can't change her but can only change the approach that you take. Some of your ideas for coming up with conversation starters are a good starting point. I know that you shouldn't have to fix this issue, but it doesn't sound like anyone else is making an effort to improve things, so if you want them to improve, you might have to initiate.

 

I'd also say that I think it is your husband's job to work this out, not yours, but that doesn't mean that he will be able and/or willing to do it. Does your husband understand the issues and why they concern you?

Yes, usually we go with a game plan, but the turkey delay led to two different assessments, and therefore the need to discuss options.

 

Hubby cooking would be a violation of gender expectations: he would be considered henpecked for being 'made' to do 'my' work instead of doing as he should by making his father happy.

 

Yes, I can prep a me-and-kids kitchen activity. That could work.

 

I can host dinners, but they would still expect the same number of visits from us in addition to their visits here (tried it). She either doesn't want any help, or (possibly) has the expectation that I would automatically do things without being invited. I don't really know which. If I try to help, she says she needs nothing. If I sit still, she seems unsatisfied. I already have a boundary that I don't take action based in subtext. So I'd have to offer off the bat (before any subtext) or wait to be asked. She first have any recipes that I don't know.

 

I doubt that DH would be willing to have that convo -- and if he did, it would still be about me, because I would be assumed to have 'made him' bring it up, and it would be all about FIL making changes to accommodate my demands (not enough that my own DH has to accommodate them) and it would also be explained that it is because I don't like being left with MIL, which means I must hate her to a high degree, to not even want to be in the room with her. They just. Don't. Get. It.

 

DH kinda understands, but also expects me to endure a little boredom and make reasonable efforts to be peaceable for the sake of family. That seems fair enough, but it was pretty hard on him because esp at the holidays he just wanted to meet expectations and keep the peace -- give his mom the gift of kindness and his dad the gift of music... And I didn't want him to do that, so he couldn't make everyone happy, and that's really hard on him. He's a sensitive guy.

[hornblower]

I thought of the same thing as Laurie4b - getting her to talk about your dh when he was a boy, or her stories of parenting etc. I'm not a 'live in the past' person but even I imagine that my kids will always be one of my favourite topics....

[bolt.]

I want to clarify that by "irrational anger" I mean that she doesn't have a rational reason to be angry with me -- not that she had a meltdown style outburst of rage.

 

She got quiet, had an upset face, tried to keep people from seeing her upset face by being busy, facing away, being mostly quiet, and abrupt when she needed to speak, cried without making a production about it, and answered my direct questions about what was bothering her in a manner that was sharp, unflattering, and rich with blame statements (including not knowing why I was motivated to ruin things, and wondering why I disliked her so very much -- that I can't stand to have my husband go enjoy himself and please his dad, etc.)

 

She *did* want people to know she was mad, so there was clear messaging -- but it wasn't any kind of flying off the handle. It was supposed to quietly induce guilt, and the words (because I asked directly) were to reinforce guilt and communicate that she expected people who care about her to change and not upset her in the future.

 

At any time she would have stopped talking if I had stopped asking: which I did. I reinforced that I cared about her and thought it was fine that we don't have a lot in common, and I let her demonstrate her feelings in her own variable way. It wasn't *that* inappropriate, behaviour-wise. And, as I've said, she has a great deal to be upset about in general -- I just got the brunt of her getting ambushed by strong emotions in a social situation.

 

She probably feels safer imaging that her feelings are 'mad at DIL' feelings -- because the dying mother, suicide-watch little sister, near-homeless other son and other grand kids, plus menopause... That's a lot to confront. It's nice to have an excuse to avoid it.

[hornblower]

oy vey.

That sounds like mama resenting her baby boy's love. Has it always been like this?

[bolt.]

oy vey.

 

That sounds like mama resenting her baby boy's love. Has it always been like this?

Nope. For a while she imagined we would be peas in a pod: women arm in arm, skipping off into the sunset cooing over babies and knitting together. The wonderful little daughter she always wanted, and her son married one into the family just for her!

 

She was totally prepared to love "a" DIL -- until she began to clue-in that I'm not exactly the DIL she would have chosen for herself, nor the kind of wife she thinks her son ought to be enjoying, nor the kind of mother her grand kids deserve. I'm very alien to her own personality, and also foreign to her religious ideas, values, and culture around femininity and family.

 

I think she feels unfairly robbed of a hallmark DIL, and saddled with me instead.

[Janie Grace]

This is so hard and I can completely identify. Honestly, this happens at almost every social event involving food -- the women gather in the kitchen and chat, the men hang out elsewhere and do the same. OR the men gather around the grill and talk (and drink beer) and the women prep the sides and talk (because no one thinks grilling means a "night off" for women except men... but I digress). The point is, I think this is common and it only sucks when the woman/women you're stuck with is not fun to hang out with.

 

(Note: All the talk about gender and generations past makes me think that my experience might not be as common as I think. But I really don't think it's because we are stuck in misogynistic gender roles... it's just how things usually go. Do y'all really stand around with your men and women friends all fixing food together?)

 

I have struggled with a lot of resentment at being left with women-in-law in the kitchen. So I definitely get it.

 

I have told dh point blank that I want him to come in and engage HIS female relative. He does. This gives me a window to "check on the kids," "use the bathroom," and otherwise have a break from the small talk.

 

I think I'd try to give FIL a heads up ahead of time that the KIDS would like to do something with him ("the kids got a model airplane for Christmas and would love if you'd help them put it together!"). That would draw him out of the music room and make things a bit more interactive. Maybe dh could hang with mom in the kitchen while I do the puzzle with FIL and kids. Even if it's just 20 minutes, FIL might realize he really does enjoy his grandkids and that family visits aren't JUST about father/son time.

 

I'd go over the top in trying to engage MIL. She sounds lonely and insecure. I think your idea about storing up anecdotes is a good one. I think asking follow-up questions helps, too. She lashed out at you because she doesn't feel interesting (maybe because her dh doesn't engage her). And obviously stories about sick people AREN'T interesting. But we fake it with our kids plenty when they tell us stories that aren't really interesting or jokes that aren't really funny; I feel like it can be loving to fake it for uninteresting grown-ups too.

 

Good luck! I just want to say I respect you for wanting to love your in-laws for your dh's sake. I often feel that too many people put their foot down for the sake of boundaries and miss an opportunity to love their spouse. My dh is so great at dying to his own preferences to facilitate my relationships with my family. I want to do the same for him. It's a profound way to say "I love you."

 

 

[hornblower]

. But I really don't think it's because we are stuck in misogynistic gender roles... it's just how things usually go. Do y'all really stand around with your men and women friends all fixing food together?)

 

yeah, we do.... Partly because we have an open floor plan so we're all sort of chucked together anyway, but also just because the males in my family don't do the disappearing thing. On xmas day, we were hosting. Dh was mostly barred from the kitchen because it was HIS job to deal with his parents (incl fil with dementia). But my father and mother were both helping me.  My dad was in charge of stirring stuff & keeping an eye on the contents of one of the ovens.  My son was in charge of drinks. My dd was flitting around. 

 

On previous occasions, dh would be in charge of a couple dishes.  It would drive me absolutely berserker to have people just disappear & bs in a room while I was trying to get food together. This could be because I don't really like cooking LOL. Push me too far & I'd just turn off the oven, grab my car keys & go out to a restaurant by myself.....or at the very least just go & sit down with everybody & join in the conversation. Eventually there's be an awkward: Oh, the food? Yeah. About that. We don't have maids or a chef you see so I guess we should all go figure it out....

[Janie Grace]

yeah, we do.... Partly because we have an open floor plan so we're all sort of chucked together anyway, but also just because the males in my family don't do the disappearing thing. On xmas day, we were hosting. Dh was mostly barred from the kitchen because it was HIS job to deal with his parents (incl fil with dementia). But my father and mother were both helping me.  My dad was in charge of stirring stuff & keeping an eye on the contents of one of the ovens.  My son was in charge of drinks. My dd was flitting around. 

 

On previous occasions, dh would be in charge of a couple dishes.  It would drive me absolutely berserker to have people just disappear & bs in a room while I was trying to get food together. This could be because I don't really like cooking LOL. Push me too far & I'd just turn off the oven, grab my car keys & go out to a restaurant by myself.....or at the very least just go & sit down with everybody & join in the conversation. Eventually there's be an awkward: Oh, the food? Yeah. About that. We don't have maids or a chef you see so I guess we should all go figure it out....

This makes sense. I think my "way" has to do with personality. I am not a group project person. I'm very task-oriented.. it's just less stressful for me to do almost everything than to delegate and risk it going badly (I realize I sound like a complete control freak). I'm also introverted so I don't mind having a quiet/empty kitchen. 

[violamama]

I have had an interesting few months with my inlaws, too. I respect your choices here and can empathize from a very similar position. 

 

If you decide to say anything about her pinning stuff on you inappropriately, I recommend it come from your husband and be phrased non-confrontationally. "I was saddened and surprised to hear you were upset with Bolt when she actually had nothing to do with XYZ. She has always done all she can to chat with you and show you love and respect. We know you are having a hard time in a lot of ways but it's not right to have Bolt caught by friendly fire. We'd like to continue to support you but can't let this kind of behavior go unmentioned." 

 

The Boundaries book is very helpful. It sounds like you have a healthy perspective, but this will not likely turn into an easy relationship despite all your kind efforts. Having you and DH on the same page will be extremely helpful. 

 

Whether this is helpful or not, I have personally decided to avoid talking gender roles with my ILs like the plague itself. Truly, I try not to even think about the crazy stuff there because otherwise I start cataloguing it and it irritates me no end. They don't have enough direct contact with my kids/family to shape the children's understanding of these things. When the kids are old enough we may have a talk about generational differences. It's a bit of sand in my jello that my FIL runs the show no matter the skew to his logic (and other issues) but... I don't have to fix it. We can play up the positive and avoid situations that highlight the negative. We have also clearly decided where our nuclear options might come into play (like leaving a holiday gathering or putting them on limited contact) and that will always come from DH first. He totally gets it. I was miserable until he did, and it wasn't all that much fun for him to pull back that particular curtain over his family's dysfunction. I can't recommend strongly enough that your read Boundaries together. 

You may just have to know that she will always think of you in this (not complimentary) way. And that's okay. Remind yourself she is not right, decide what you want from the relationship (and the whole family) and reconcile yourself to it always rubbing you a bit raw. You will probably never be able to prepare your way out of those little injuries. 

 

Be absolutely sure what you are willing to take, and how you will recover after visits. (Extra exercise, alone time, talk with a friend, more cuddling with DH, date night where you get to vent to him, etc?)

Sorry you have to deal with that. 

[Kiara.I]

I think MIL would be ecstatic if I took up a womanly handicraft like knitting. Maybe that's the mystery 'thing' that I'm supposed to be doing in my opaque role. (It's totally not my thing -- though I do see how it would fit nicely into the dynamic.)

 

I want to strategize and look towards some amelioration in a one-sided non-confrontational way that isn't too much effort. Otherwise, I'm ok to to endure/overlook.

 

Is there anything quiet and hobby-like that you CAN do while being present in the room?  Take up reading braille, for instance, so that it's not as obvious that you're ignoring her?  ;)

 

 

Okay, strategizing:  Myers-Briggs.  It helped to realize that my MIL and I were basically...er...total opposites.  My "examine all the things and figure out why they're done that way, what's the historical reason, does it make sense, could it be done better" sounded to her "status quo is the way it is because it's the only way to be, conflict-avoiding" personality like...conflict!  So any time I said, "So WHY does it happen that way..." she panicked and retreated, and there went the only interesting conversation that had been in the offing.  Blah.  But at least I *know* that's what's happening now.

And then for extra bonus points, try Enneagram too.  If you can figure out which type she is, you can find lists of "ways to interact with a type <whatever>."

[violamama]

I like the personality analysis route. My SIL is totally, completely the opposite of both her brother and me. It was revolutionary to finally realize she doesn't LIKE to discuss things deeply and we don't like to stay on the surface. She lives in the moment and we are always trying to take a long view. She drives us insane and we drive her insaner. Stuff like that. 

[idnib]

. 

 

[mamaraby]

I can empathize, though things are a little different with my MIL. She has issues with anxiety and depression and many other health issues plus a need to control everyone while passive aggressively suggesting that it's all someone else's fault. She thought we'd be the closest and bestest of friends when I first started dating dh and came on super strong. She also thought dh's sister and I would be best friends, but she pretty much hated me up until she got married herself.

 

I made a valiant effort for a very long time. We had the close ranks and stick close tactic and while it was tolerable, I was never going to be the person she wanted me to be and I don't play the "meek and mild while you steamroll me" role very well.

 

Really, the only successful solution that allows a stress-free visit for dh and the kids is for me to stay home. They live a few states away and dh has the sort of job that isn't conducive to traveling around the holidays. This means dh and the kids see his parents once a year for a weekend. They send gifts for the kids and occassionally chat on the phone or on Facetime, but that's it. They don't have my iMessage email nor my cell phone number (and we don't have a landline). They're only point of contact with our family is through their son and dh handles everything when it comes to his parents.

 

In a way, it's sad. My kids love their grandmother and their cousins, but opening up additional visits or allowing more access to our daily lives indicates to my MIL that her input, opinion, and judgement about what we do and how we do it is welcome.

 

The clear bonus on my end is that aside from this disastrous summer when my in-laws came to visit for the last time (insert croccodile tears here about our audacity to own pets she's allergic to), I pretty much never see my MIL *and* I have the most lovely vacation where I can do whatever I want without having to take care of the kids or the house. I eat what I want and sleep what I want. Everybody wins.

[jewellsmommy]

So my options are:

- "Ruin the holidays" for DH, MIL, FIL and probably the kids and create rifts that will endure for years

- Bore myself silly, waste valuable time, wonder why we all came, and still disappoint her by rejecting her company and behaving like a child

- Be rude, aloof, addicted to tech, and still did disappoint and offend her because I am openly ignoring her.

- Attempt chit-chat. Remember to be conversationally passive (no advice or opinions) and active (how?) at the same time. Bored to tears: showing it or faking it. And still disappoint her because I suck at content less conversation AND at faking enjoyment.

 

Yeah, I'm really jazzed with the options.

 

I've done the crying thing (post-baby) and it actually does work. Too bad I have nothing to cry about -- and I'd be admitting weakness in front if an 'adversary' -- and I'd have to be pushed pretty far to be intentionally hurtful to a woman who us already going through a tremendous amount of crud.

 

It's pretty clear that I need to avoid what I can, and bring my best conversation whenever I'm able to.

 

This is the only practical idea I could manage: talking games like "Would You Rather..." She could continue to work, and you would read the question, venture your opinion and ask for hers. They are questions like "would you rather have to spend the night on the open water in a life raft or spend the night in the jungle?" Think of them as conversation starters. When one has run dry then you draw another card and ask another question. It is not trivia, there are no right or wrong answers, just your preference and why.

 

[elfgivas]

 

 

Can you take an activity for the kids -- a puzzle or game or simple craft -- and sit near your MIL while she cooks, doing it with the kids? That way you can have some additional people to talk to, and they don't get placed in front of the tv.

 

 

 

this is what i was thinking, but its likely because when time with my MIL becomes less than fun, i focus on my kids.  that is, after all, one of my primary jobs/goals/concerns/joys.  we have had activities that are only for when we are visiting.

 

eg.  one time, i asked her to teach them to knit.  it was less than successful, but it was an easy fix with a few whispered directions, and then they could knit happily with us.  i knit, too, but mostly when i am with her.  

 

a puzzle is a good thing.  maybe you could take one, ask for a card table and set it up.  then people can come and go and sit down and put in a few pieces, etc, etc. 

 

i wonder if one of the things is that your dfil (and maybe your dh?) have no idea what they would do if they didn't "play computers".  

 

if its once a year, i'd just suffer thru.  if its once a week, i'd be stark raving bonkers.  

 

many hugs,

ann

 

ps.  if you do try to change how it happens, be prepared for others to try even harder to keep it the way it is.  family systems theory is a pain that way....

[Ausmumof3]

I'd say she sounds like an I and an f anyway... Not sure about the other two letters though.

 

Sounds like a difficult situation where you are being thoughtful and doing your best.

 

Personally I'd probably let the boys do the boy thing and take something for myself to do... Even if it's something totally inessential like drawing. But it makes it hard with kids in the mix. Not saying it's the right thing to do either I'm just horribly nonconfrontAtional.

[Liz CA]

So you have basically two choices. Fake it the way they want it. Or buck it and make yourself unpopular.

Which is more important to you? You have not said much about your dh's expectation of people's behavior. Depending on where the son of the family stands, it will determine how comfortable or uncomfortable you are.

If long rifts are a real possibility, and you and your dh want a relationship with them, faking it may be the only way.

Main thing is to realize you are likely not going to change them or their way of life.

It comes down to making the best of it as in "we can spend two hours there max because that is all one can take in the present circumstances or we are not interested in perpetuating this kind of farce and they can come over and play by our rules" - in which case I would not hold my breath that they will.

 

There are situations that don't have a neat solution - and this may be one of them.

[Carol in Cal.]

I would either agree with my DH beforehand not to leave me at all during the visit, or bring knitting so that I could feel productive during an otherwise boring visit but still be available to chat.

[LibraryLover]

Are there other folks at these gatherings you can chat with? My fil was a musician and so is my dh ( the weekend kind, not by profession). They spent a lot of time at the piano together. My MIL was a lovely woman, and the other relatives were/ are diverse enough that there is always something to talk about, even if some subjects were/are not my main interests. There were also cousins to run with , so the TV wasn't an issue. (Although sometimes they did watch vids of Charlie Brown Christmas and the like together. ) My mother is having health issues a bit, and so are her friends. It does concern her and she does talk about it. It's not fun, but it is her reality.

 

It's difficult. I'm sorry she was unkind to you.

[MBM]

I want to clarify that by "irrational anger" I mean that she doesn't have a rational reason to be angry with me -- not that she had a meltdown style outburst of rage.

 

She got quiet, had an upset face, tried to keep people from seeing her upset face by being busy, facing away, being mostly quiet, and abrupt when she needed to speak, cried without making a production about it, and answered my direct questions about what was bothering her in a manner that was sharp, unflattering, and rich with blame statements (including not knowing why I was motivated to ruin things, and wondering why I disliked her so very much -- that I can't stand to have my husband go enjoy himself and please his dad, etc.)

 

She *did* want people to know she was mad, so there was clear messaging -- but it wasn't any kind of flying off the handle. It was supposed to quietly induce guilt, and the words (because I asked directly) were to reinforce guilt and communicate that she expected people who care about her to change and not upset her in the future.

 

At any time she would have stopped talking if I had stopped asking: which I did. I reinforced that I cared about her and thought it was fine that we don't have a lot in common, and I let her demonstrate her feelings in her own variable way. It wasn't *that* inappropriate, behaviour-wise. And, as I've said, she has a great deal to be upset about in general -- I just got the brunt of her getting ambushed by strong emotions in a social situation.

 

She probably feels safer imaging that her feelings are 'mad at DIL' feelings -- because the dying mother, suicide-watch little sister, near-homeless other son and other grand kids, plus menopause... That's a lot to confront. It's nice to have an excuse to avoid it.

 

 

It sounds like your MIL is being emotionally manipulative. I don't think you will be able to change your relationship with her easily. She has other very serious problems in her life and may not know how to (or be willing to) address them. Maybe her husband doesn't like listening to her talk about these problems, either. You are the nice DIL, an easy scapegoat. Sometimes the best you can do is just understand what makes her behave the way she does.

 

My guess is that she was *voiceless* as a child and not allowed to express or even feel her genuine feelings. Children need to deeply feel that their feelings are legitimate and matter to those around them. Parents/caregivers do this by mirroring back the circumstances of an event/situation and the feelings the child has about the event. (They can also help children perceive and translate the situation in a healthy, accurate manner.) Mirroring helps children to feel *heard* and they get the message that they matter. They feel deep down that someone cares. Your MIL may have grown up without this. Her unhappiness bubbles up in a roundabout way and may even be affecting her physically.

 

I just want to add that how children *translate or perceive* an event or situation and how they respond can be gently shaped by parents and caregivers, but in order to do this well, parents need to understand how they themselves perceive and translate situations. Children learn their perceptions largely by watching their parents and caregivers. The Optimistic Child by Martin Seligman is a good book that explains this, and anyone can take the free online tests that stemmed from his work at the following website (which Seligman helped start). Btw, happy in this case does not mean smiling, laughing, etc., but rather more along the lines of feeling content, optimistic and good about life.

 

https://www.authentichappiness.sas.upenn.edu

 

Getting back to dealing with your MIL, maybe listening to her empathically while also asserting yourself (different than reacting aggressively) could be helpful.