Murphy101 Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 Kitty has been our beloved indoor only pet for her entire 14 years of life. (We got her at about 4 weeks.) We had a breast cancer tumor about the size of a quarter removed about 6 weeks ago, but it came back quickly and aggressively. She now has dozens of lumps, it's spread to her lymphs, and metastasized to her left back hip, causing that leg to be paralyzed. Since her favorite room/child is in the farthest corner room upstairs, the bum leg had caused her to drop 3 pounds in the last four days since it went lame. She can walk around the house, but obviously it took a lot more work and thus she wasn't doing it as often and the food and liter box are down stairs. So it was quite a work out for her to come eat. We brought her food frequently to make it easier, but she wouldn't use a liter box in the room and would only use the one downstairs. (We had never had an upstairs liter box before, but were trying to make things easier for her. She looked really insulted about it. Like we were suggesting depends or something and wouldn't use it.) We took her in yesterday for a shot of pain relief that will last about 3 days. The vet says we need to go ahead and put her down this week. *sniffle* Idk. It's a fine line I guess. To MY mind, if she is still mobile and eating and using the liter box, then it's too soon to out her down. She isn't throwing up either. Ds19 and I were talking that maybe NEXT week will be closer to that act? She is seeking lovin, not looking for a hole to die in (does that make sense? Anyone else know what I mean by that?) The shot seems to have helped a little bit, but even before the shot, all of the above was true. The only improvement from the shot is she seems really happy to be able to climb onto ds19's bed and sofa again. Prior to the shot, it was just too hard for her to do it on her own. Would it be unreasonable to suggest to the vet that we would rather not put her down yet and instead offer palliative care for a while longer? Maybe bring her in every 4 days for a shot and to reevaluate? We would absolutely not make her endure being unable to use the cat box, puking sick, unable or up desiring of food and water. And if she started to act like she couldn't handle it, such as no longer seeking us and instead looking for a place to die. As soon as any of those things happen, we would bring her in immediately. Our usual vet is in vacation and his partner who we are not used to, seemed... Really annoyed that we refused to put her down while we were there and said she thought giving her a pain shot was a "waste". :.( We don't think so. We think there is ground between sick and putting down. If she is coping well and otherwise still enjoying life, then we aren't ready to out her down. Our regular vet won't be back for over a week, so we need to deal with this vet. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefgazer Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 I'm sorry about your cat; it's very hard to watch them decline in illness, and deciding when to put then down is tougher still. I had a cat who developed cancer at 10, and for a long time he seemed to do ok and acted normal, as long as he had supportive care. I figured I'd wait until he was in obvious pain to put him down; I think I was secretly hoping he would go peacefully in his sleep and I wouldn't have to make that choice. Anyway, it was one year after 9/11 and I was watching the memorial services, when I noticed he wasn't curled up with me as usual. Instead, I found him lying alone in a back bedroom and he wouldn't be coaxed out. He went from ok to dead on two hours. By the time I realized this was it, he was struggling to breathe and I was frantically calling the after hours vet. I got him into his carrier and lugged him and my newborn out at 11 at night, but he died in the car on the way to the vet after a miserable few hours of labored breathing. The after hours vet was extremely callous and just grabbed him from me non-challantly and walked away with him. I wish every day I had had the spine to put him down earlier, but I was trying to find a way out and he suffered terribly those last few hours. Anyway, cats can go downhill fast. Just be sure you have access to a kind vet within close distance of you.choose to wait, and make sure the vet will be available 24-7 for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scholastica Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 I don't have any advice, but my sister recently had to put her kitty down. She was able to find a mobile vet service that specialized in euthanasia at home. It was so much easier on both she and the kitty than times past at the vet's office. She said that the vet who came was very understanding and treated them both with great care. Just something to consider when you do decide it is time. I'm sorry that you are going through this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 Would weekly steroid shots help her for a while? I don't remember the name of the medication our cats received, but as soon as I get home, I'll check and see if I can find it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommymilkies Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 :grouphug: I would also offer palliative care until she looked to be in too much pain or suffering. I think you're doing the right thing. Much love to your family right now. I'm sorry about your cat; it's very hard to watch them decline in illness, and deciding when to put then down is tougher still.I had a cat who developed cancer at 10, and for a long time he seemed to do ok and acted normal, as long as he had supportive care. I figured I'd wait until he was in obvious pain to put him down; I think I was secretly hoping he would go peacefully in his sleep and I wouldn't have to make that choice. Anyway, it was one year after 9/11 and I was watching the memorial services, when I noticed he wasn't curled up with me as usual. Instead, I found him lying alone in a back bedroom and he wouldn't be coaxed out. He went from ok to dead on two hours. By the time I realized this was it, he was struggling to breathe and I was frantically calling the after hours vet. I got him into his carrier and lugged him and my newborn out at 11 at night, but he died in the car on the way to the vet after a miserable few hours of labored breathing. The after hours vet was extremely callous and just grabbed him from me non-challantly and walked away with him.I wish every day I had had the spine to put him down earlier, but I was trying to find a way out and he suffered terribly those last few hours. Anyway, cats can go downhill fast. Just be sure you have access to a kind vet within close distance of you.choose to wait, and make sure the vet will be available 24-7 for you. I am so sorry. We had something similar happen where it went from basically fine to horrific in hours. I was out of town with my daughter at an endocrinologist's appointment when my dh couldn't bear it any longer and took him in. It breaks my heart that he was in so much pain and I wasn't there when he passed. That's definitely something to consider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacia Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 I'm sorry & I'm also agreeing with your post, Martha. Hugs to all of you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arctic Bunny Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 I'm so sorry - it's hard reading, much less being there. May I gently suggest that she's not sick, though. She's dying. Unfortunately, she isn't going to get better. Which is just sad, and terrible and unfair. Hugs to you :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJ. Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 Poor kitty. :grouphug: I see nothing wrong with seeking palliative care until you feel it is the right time to let her go. Sometimes vets can be quick to recommend euthanasia but remember it is your choice, she is your family and you know her best. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparrow Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 I'm so sorry. It is such a hard decision to make :grouphug: . It's absolutely not unreasonable to look at all of your options. At this point, I do think it is important to remember that cats are very good at masking pain. Unfortunately, by the time they actively show pain, they have been injured or sick for some time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twigs Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted August 31, 2014 Author Share Posted August 31, 2014 I'm so sorry - it's hard reading, much less being there. May I gently suggest that she's not sick, though. She's dying. Unfortunately, she isn't going to get better. Which is just sad, and terrible and unfair. Hugs to you :( ? Yes, I know she isn't just sick and is actually dying. But there is a stretch of space between on the road to dying and being in the throws of a miserable death. It's obvious she is not going to recover and I suspect she won't have more than a few weeks regardless of what we do. But if she is purring in our laps and enjoying what was an unusual weekly treat as her only food now and still functioning mostly well - it seems premature to let her go? If any ONE of those things change, we would promptly take her in that day. I would by no stretch wait until she is total decline and misery. Idk. We are supposed to bring her in on Tuesday, but I'll play it by ear I think. By Tuesday she could decline quite a bit and there be no debate to be had about it after all. We also didn't ask how they would put her down. I'm presuming two injections. One to make sure there's no pain and one to stop her heart? And ds says he is going to get her cremated, which I find personally... Weird. (But I'm not one for cremating people.) But he doesn't want to leave her there to be disposed of and he doesn't want to bury her in our yard because the dogs will dig her up at some point. It's his money, so if that's what he wants to do, that's fine I guess. At least he didn't go with the taxidermy option. THAT would have been just too freaky for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasmama Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 I think offering palliative care for the time she has left sounds like a fine plan. I have a cat with a painful auto immune disease that flares at times, and I have single doses of buprenorphine (by mouth syringe) for her when she has a flare. Can you ask for something like this? It might prevent such frequent vet trips, which cannot be fun for anyone. I'm sorry the other vet was not understanding of your plan. Fourteen years is a long time to have a furry friend, and your criteria for knowing when it is time sounds very reasonable to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arctic Bunny Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 I didn't mean to hurt your feelings :hug: I didn't see that you had an appointment Tuesday. I was going to say that's the hardest part, I think. I'm sure you'll know when the time has come. FWIW, our friends who just said goodbye to their dogs said it was two injections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unicorn. Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 Agree w/ the palliative care. I currently have a cat that cannot walk at all. She's otherwise happy, eating, purring, etc. I carry her to the litterbox several times a day, bring her food to her, give her water w/ a syringe (she won't drink enough otherwise), take her outside and sit w/ her a couple of times a day. When I pick her up she leans her head on my chest and the purr machine goes into overdrive. She has neurological issues and could get around very, very slowly until a week ago, when they steroids seem to stop working. She's happy, and in no pain. Her vet has never pushed to have her put down. If she were in pain, or when she stops eating or is in any kind of distress, we might rethink things. But right now, she's happy. And very spoiled! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted August 31, 2014 Author Share Posted August 31, 2014 I didn't mean to hurt your feelings :hug: I didn't see that you had an appointment Tuesday. I was going to say that's the hardest part, I think. I'm sure you'll know when the time has come. FWIW, our friends who just said goodbye to their dogs said it was two injections. No feelings hurt. Just more confused that someone might think I'm wasn't fully aware she isn't just sick. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldberry Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 Really annoyed that we refused to put her down while we were there and said she thought giving her a pain shot was a "waste". I think that is horrible to say and would not see that person again. I put down a kitty at 18 years. It is not a waste if it makes your kitty feel better and gives you a little bit more time to process. Take the time you need. I think you are reasonable in that you are determined not to let her suffer, and if she does, you will take her in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catz Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 :grouphug: I'm so sorry. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 She is losing massive amounts of weight (in proportion to a normal weight), she has cancer throughout her body, and is unable to comfortably walk or move around. I think putting her down now would be a gift. Waiting until she absolutely can't move, or is vomiting from the pain seems cruel. And why? So she can have an extra week to limp around? Why put her through the experience of getting worse, for what gain? One more week on earth is not worth it, in my opinion, if there is even a chance she will become even more uncomfortable. To lose the amount of weight you've indicated is very drastic, and a sign she is uncomfortable at best, suffering being the more likely scenario. Remember, cats and dogs are prey, they hide their pain as best as they are able. What she is showing you is only the tip of the iceberg. If the veterinarian is advising euthanasia than it is time. No one in the veterinary field wants to do that, for them to suggest it means the animal is already suffering. I'm so very sorry, and I apologize for the bluntness of my words. I know you love your cat and want to do what is best. Hugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unicorn. Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 If the veterinarian is advising euthanasia than it is time. No one in the veterinary field wants to do that, for them to suggest it means the animal is already suffering. Hugs. Not all vets feel that way, though. This isn't her normal vet. And if the cat is still happy, why isn't treating the pain enough right now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arctic Bunny Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 No feelings hurt. Just more confused that someone might think I'm wasn't fully aware she isn't just sick. :)I meant giving her shots for pain so she can jump up on a lap isn't healing her so she can jump from now on. It's giving her humans more time. And there's never enough time with our pets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoJosMom Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 I had a friend with multiple cats and was the person who had to take them to the vet when it was their time (because my friend couldn't handle it. Please refrain from any comments; it's just the way it was.) I have only ever seen the vet give one injection. It acted almost immediately. There is no way that the animal felt any pain, but the speed of the process is a bit shocking so prepare yourself. Also, if it is important to you, I would suggest that you contact your vet and ask whether they will euthanize your pet at home. Many will, and will handle disposal if that is what you want. I'm really sorry for you and your family and for Kitty. Pets bring so much love into our lives, but saying goodbye can be a really sad and challenging time. :sad: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammyla Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 These decisions are so difficult to make, and I'm very sad for you and your family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted August 31, 2014 Author Share Posted August 31, 2014 I meant giving her shots for pain so she can jump up on a lap isn't healing her so she can jump from now on. It's giving her humans more time. And there's never enough time with our pets. I never said it heals her of invasive cancer so she can jump from now on. I said it relieved some of her pain so she could do more things that she wants to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz CA Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 I would wait for your regular vet - not because he/he may say something else but because you know him/her and it may be easier to talk about all the "what ifs." Due to circumstances beyond our control I had to have my horse euthanized by a vet I saw for the first time in person when she came to the stable. I had talked to her on the phone and she was very nice and capable. However, I know this was awkward for her and me. Even my dh said it was weird. We felt sorry for her afterwards. What do you do with a woman who sits next to a dead horse sobbing when you don't know her well enough to offer comfort? My regular vet had known my horse and me for 10 years. Somehow, it may make a difference, especially if you are having the family there to say good bye. Since your kitty is still mobile, is not soiling herself and still eats, I think you can easily wait another week or even longer and by then your regular vet will be back anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 Not all vets feel that way, though. This isn't her normal vet. And if the cat is still happy, why isn't treating the pain enough right now? Mainly because pain meds for cats just aren't that effective. We have a lot less options for them than we do dogs. Which is a shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasmama Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 Mainly because pain meds for cats just aren't that effective. We have a lot less options for them than we do dogs. Which is a shame. This is a bit off topic because it is about my own cat, but the buprenorphine seems very effective with my cat's pain (due to stomatitis- all her molars have been removed, but she still struggles with the disorder at times). Maybe it is contraindicated for long-term use, but a dose of buprenorphine gets her from hiding and not eating at all (and me syringe feeding her slurries) to eating on her own in less than an hour. I'm trying to understand your statement because it seems relevant to our cat since she may continue to have flares of stomatitis. It is very clear when she is feeling badly. She hides under the furniture and does not eat. When she is feeling well, she is out among us and meowing for her next meal when it is time. She is an easy read for pain levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chocolatechip Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 I like your idea of palliative care. It's so hard, though. Hugs for you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 Mainly because pain meds for cats just aren't that effective. We have a lot less options for them than we do dogs. Which is a shame. I completely disagree with the idea that pain meds for cats aren't that effective. That has not been our experience at all. Obviously, they won't work in all cases, but I don't think it is accurate to make such a general statement without knowing the medical details and examining Martha's cat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxbridgeacademy Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 I think it's fine to wait. We're going through some serious health issues with our dachshund (she almost died this past week) and I understand wanting to wait and spend as much time as you can with her. When my dad's old dog got to where he couldn't get around anymore (was blind, stopped eating) he had the vet come to him. Yes it cost more but Rex was at home and got to bark at one last visitor before he died. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotherGoose Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 I think it's fine to wait. We put down my almost 17 yo dachsund in May after he'd had seizures/strokes that left him unable to lift his head, or even respond to ham put under his nose, or drink water. But before that he was in a wheelchair for several years because he couldn't walk, incontinent, and in some pain that we managed in various ways for years. He still was interested in eating, being petted, loving us, and stealing food--up until the last day or two of his life. It was a huge inconvenience for us, but until he could do nothing but lie there, and refuse pain pills, we kept on. I have no regrets, and still feel guilt about putting him down at all although I know it was time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotherGoose Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 I think it's fine to wait. We're going through some serious health issues with our dachshund (she almost died this past week) and I understand wanting to wait and spend as much time as you can with her. When my dad's old dog got to where he couldn't get around anymore (was blind, stopped eating) he had the vet come to him. Yes it cost more but Rex was at home and got to bark at one last visitor before he died. My dachshund was always terrified at the vet's and I would have done the same thing, but the Friday night before he was up in the night yipping in pain, and the vet in the office on Sat wouldn't do home visits. He did come out to the car though, and was very kind. And he didn't even know what was going on because of the stokes/seizures. He always trembled in fear when we went to the vet's in the past but this time was calm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedmom4 Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 I am so very sorry you're facing this. We had to put our 15 1/2 year old dog down last Monday. My heart is broken but I know it was the right decision. But to be honest it has taken me a while to get to this point. Even after we euthanized her I felt terrible about it. I kept questioning it even though it was recommended by our vet. Finally my mom talked to me about all the things our dog was no longer doing. She talked about the signs of pain. I finally realized that because it all happened so gradually I couldn't really see how bad she had gotten. It is such a hard decision. Our dog was a family member. I am still so very sad but I know we did te right thing. It sounds like you are in the same position we were only a week ago. (((Hugs))) Elise in NC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewe Mama Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 :grouphug: If your beloved kitty is able to be comfortable and happy with your help, there is no reason why you shouldn't postpone the decision until your regular vet gets back. Your regular vet knows you and your cat, this other doctor does not. Your vet will help you make the right decision at the right time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 This is a bit off topic because it is about my own cat, but the buprenorphine seems very effective with my cat's pain (due to stomatitis- all her molars have been removed, but she still struggles with the disorder at times). Maybe it is contraindicated for long-term use, but a dose of buprenorphine gets her from hiding and not eating at all (and me syringe feeding her slurries) to eating on her own in less than an hour. I'm trying to understand your statement because it seems relevant to our cat since she may continue to have flares of stomatitis. It is very clear when she is feeling badly. She hides under the furniture and does not eat. When she is feeling well, she is out among us and meowing for her next meal when it is time. She is an easy read for pain levels. I'm glad your cat responds so well! A lot of cats don't do as well on oral buprenorphine, it's usually given by injection, ideally, but for lack of an oral drug vets use it orally. That works great in some cats, really great, but not in others. And as you know, you have to give it fairly often. The cat in the OP is still not eating well, from what I read in the post. She said the only difference they saw was the cat was jumping up on the bed now. If the cancer is in the bones, that's incredibly painful, and not going to be easy to alleviate. I've seen straight morphine given for that, with not much effect. Also, your pet is healthy otherwise, so it makes sense to treat the flares when they happen, knowing there will be good times after. With Martha's cat, sadly, there are no better times coming. The pet will only get worse. I just can't see making the cat suffer any more than it is now. Going out still a bit comfortable seems preferable to me. If I have to guess, I'd rather be too early than too late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 I completely disagree with the idea that pain meds for cats aren't that effective. That has not been our experience at all. Obviously, they won't work in all cases, but I don't think it is accurate to make such a general statement without knowing the medical details and examining Martha's cat. I'm a certified veterinary technician. I'm not making this up. The options for cats just aren't as good as we would like, especially when talking about the kind of pain cancer can cause. A fentanyl patch would probably give the most relief, but takes a while to kick in. And only lasts a few days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted September 1, 2014 Author Share Posted September 1, 2014 The cat in the OP is still not eating well, from what I read in the post. She said the only difference they saw was the cat was jumping up on the bed now. If the cancer is in the bones, that's incredibly painful, and not going to be easy to alleviate. I've seen straight morphine given for that, with not much effect. That is not what I wrote. What I said was even before the meds she was still eating but it was obviously more painful for her to come down stairs to do it and use her preferred liter box. With the pain meds, she is doing so more frequently and even climbing up the bed and sofa, whereas prior to the injection, she was not getting on the furniture unless we out her there and though she was still coming up and down the stairs, it took a lot out of her to do it. The pain meds are very much helping her. Without the meds, she was still eating and getting about, so my point was that the meds are helping do what she already was doing with less pain and more frequency. She is eating canned food like there's no tomorrow. (Ugh. No pun intended. But I figure if she isn't going to be around in a week, there's no point making her endure the dry stuff. Let the poor dear have as much enjoyment as she can while she can. She is obviously thrilled about this.) She was playing with a string being dangled in front of her gently by my 3 yr old an hour ago. It wasn't with her former glorious abandon. But she was purring and sorta batting it half-heartedly. She wasn't doing that yesterday morning, so yes, I do think the pain shot helps her considerably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaxMom Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 We said goodbye to our beloved 15 year old dog a couple of weeks ago. It was the hardest thing I've ever done, even though we knew it was the right decision. I still find myself surprised at her absence and in tears suddenly... I have no advice, only hugs for you and your family. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrixieB Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 We also didn't ask how they would put her down. I'm presuming two injections. One to make sure there's no pain and one to stop her heart? And ds says he is going to get her cremated, which I find personally... Weird. (But I'm not one for cremating people.) But he doesn't want to leave her there to be disposed of and he doesn't want to bury her in our yard because the dogs will dig her up at some point. It's his money, so if that's what he wants to do, that's fine I guess. At least he didn't go with the taxidermy option. THAT would have been just too freaky for me. Yes, the vet will give her two injections. The first will make her very relaxed, sleepy, and out of it. The second will stop her heart. When I took my cat to be euthanized, I held him for the first injection and for a while afterward, till he seemed barely conscious. The vet put him on the table for the second injection. This is making me cry, remembering... even though it was a couple of years ago. I got him cremated. Dh didn't want him buried in the yard, and I didn't want to leave him there. :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: I am sure you will know when the time is right. :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 I'm a certified veterinary technician. I'm not making this up. The options for cats just aren't as good as we would like, especially when talking about the kind of pain cancer can cause. A fentanyl patch would probably give the most relief, but takes a while to kick in. And only lasts a few days. I don't mean any disrespect, but our veterinarians do not agree with you, and there are steroid injections which can help sick cats tremendously with pain, appetite, and energy levels. I have had quite a bit of personal experience with the steroid shots, and can attest to the fact that they were immensely effective for four of our cats over the years who all had cancer, and those shots helped each of them live quality lives for a long time after they would have otherwise have had to have been euthanized. Perhaps the vets you work for are less experienced or less informed of the options which are currently available. Look, I'm not saying that I know for sure that what worked for my cats will be effective for Martha's cat, but I think you are a bit out of line in diagnosing her cat as needing to be euthanized when you have never even seen the cat. I know you mean well, but I don't think anyone should automatically assume the worst until Martha has been able to explore all of her options. Martha -- I'm still trying to find the name of the steroid that worked so well for our cats. They literally went from hardly lifting their heads off the floor to flying across the country with us and feeling great. At first, the shots lasted close to 2 weeks at a time, but eventually they needed weekly shots. The vet's office is closed for Labor Day Weekend, but I know I have the prescription info here somewhere because we used to take it with us when we traveled. Another excellent thing for keeping you cat's weight up and making sure she gets the nutrients she needs is a product called Clinicare. It comes in a blue and white 7oz can, and it's a liquid diet. Some cats like the taste, but others need to be fed through a syringe, which is pretty easy to do (ask the vet to show you how to do it properly or let me know and I'll walk you through it.) We bought the Clinicare at the vet's office. Cats only need about 30cc per day to stay alive, but 72cc spread out over the day seems to keep them from feeling sick to their stomachs. I'll try to get the steroid info to you ASAP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datgh Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 :grouphug: to you and your family. It is never an easy decision and probably one of the hardest ones there is to make. My opinion is that you will know when it is time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldberry Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 I never said it heals her of invasive cancer so she can jump from now on. I said it relieved some of her pain so she could do more things that she wants to do. I think I understood what the other poster was getting at....when my kitty had kidney failure, we could continue taking her in for IV fluids (which was very traumatising to her). At that time, it was part of my decision-making knowing that this was not going to permanently fix anything but that this was only temporary and that she was in fact dying. I would have continued IV fluids, even though traumatising, if it would have "fixed" her, but since it was not going to solve anything I had to decide how many times I would do that. We did actually go through one more treatment so we had more time with her to let DD say goodbye. I think the other poster was just suggesting that part of the thought process. It sounds like you are already considering that though. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 That is not what I wrote. What I said was even before the meds she was still eating but it was obviously more painful for her to come down stairs to do it and use her preferred liter box. With the pain meds, she is doing so more frequently and even climbing up the bed and sofa, whereas prior to the injection, she was not getting on the furniture unless we out her there and though she was still coming up and down the stairs, it took a lot out of her to do it. The pain meds are very much helping her. Without the meds, she was still eating and getting about, so my point was that the meds are helping do what she already was doing with less pain and more frequency. She is eating canned food like there's no tomorrow. (Ugh. No pun intended. But I figure if she isn't going to be around in a week, there's no point making her endure the dry stuff. Let the poor dear have as much enjoyment as she can while she can. She is obviously thrilled about this.) She was playing with a string being dangled in front of her gently by my 3 yr old an hour ago. It wasn't with her former glorious abandon. But she was purring and sorta batting it half-heartedly. She wasn't doing that yesterday morning, so yes, I do think the pain shot helps her considerably. Ok, I must have misunderstood. When you said she was losing almost a pound a day, I assumed she wasn't eating much. Then when you said that she was getting on furniture, but not much else had changed I thought that meant she still was losing the weight. If she was continuing to decline that fast I wouldn't want to wait. I just really didn't want you to think that a cat in pain would definitely stop purring/being loving. I've seen cats with horrific, very painful injuries still puring and rubbing up on people. It just isn't a good indicator in an otherwise loving cat. Hugs, I'm sorry if I came across as harsh, I didn't mean to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 I don't mean any disrespect, but our veterinarians do not agree with you, and there are steroid injections which can help sick cats tremendously with pain, appetite, and energy levels. I have had quite a bit of personal experience with the steroid shots, and can attest to the fact that they were immensely effective for four of our cats over the years who all had cancer, and those shots helped each of them live quality lives for a long time after they would have otherwise have had to have been euthanized. Perhaps the vets you work for are less experienced or less informed of the options which are currently available. Look, I'm not saying that I know for sure that what worked for my cats will be effective for Martha's cat, but I think you are a bit out of line in diagnosing her cat as needing to be euthanized when you have never even seen the cat. I know you mean well, but I don't think anyone should automatically assume the worst until Martha has been able to explore all of her options. Martha -- I'm still trying to find the name of the steroid that worked so well for our cats. They literally went from hardly lifting their heads off the floor to flying across the country with us and feeling great. At first, the shots lasted close to 2 weeks at a time, but eventually they needed weekly shots. The vet's office is closed for Labor Day Weekend, but I know I have the prescription info here somewhere because we used to take it with us when we traveled. Another excellent thing for keeping you cat's weight up and making sure she gets the nutrients she needs is a product called Clinicare. It comes in a blue and white 7oz can, and it's a liquid diet. Some cats like the taste, but others need to be fed through a syringe, which is pretty easy to do (ask the vet to show you how to do it properly or let me know and I'll walk you through it.) We bought the Clinicare at the vet's office. Cats only need about 30cc per day to stay alive, but 72cc spread out over the day seems to keep them from feeling sick to their stomachs. I'll try to get the steroid info to you ASAP. I definitely agree steroids can help animals with cancer! A common saying is "never let a pet die without steroids", because they can help so much at the end. But I seem to have misunderstood her post, it was my understanding the cat wasn't eating any more now, after hte meds, than before. Also, when I think pain meds, I was thinking NSAIDs and narcotics, which are more complicated in cats than dogs. You have me wracking my brain now for the type of steroid we used to order in for a little old man cat, to get his appetite going again, help him keep on some weight, etc. I haven't seen it used since then....this is going to drive me nuts. I want to say it started with an R, or a W. Funny, can't remember the drug, but I remember the cat's name, Rocky. He was a great cat. So anyway, pain management in cats is very tricky, but yes, steroids help to stimulate appetite, reduce inflammation, and make the cat feel perkier, particularly when the issue is cancer. But, again, I seem to have misunderstood the entire thing, as I thought the cat was still not eating. I didn't want Martha to think that the cat would stop purring if it was in pain, as that if often not the case, and not a good indicator of when the cat is suffering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephanieZ Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Of course you can continue palliative care. Dh had a vet school professor who used to say, "No animal should die with out the benefit of steroids." Now, this doesn't apply to every single ailment, but . . . for many ailments (including many cancers), steroids can buy you some extra days, weeks, or even months of acceptable quality of life. Same for serious pain relief. Same for some infusions of IV or sub-q fluids. Pain patches (usually fentanyl patch) can be great for cats, as they are notoriously hard to pill. (If you have other pets or young kids in the house, be sure you understand the risks of the pain patches. Eating one could be very dangerous.) I'd be clear with the fill-in vet that you are willing to spend $ and trouble to gain a few extra weeks. Be clear that you are OK with coming in a couple times a week for treatment/meds and/or doing shots or meds at home. And that you are OK with spending a few hundred dollars to buy yourself a few days or weeks. Many owners are not and would be irritated to be encouraged to invest $ and effort in a short battle. BUT, IMHO, you can judge best for your cat. If the fill-in/partner vet is unresponsive or otherwise unhelpful, do not hesitate to find a new vet. Most vets would be delighted to work with you to maximize your pet's quality of life during this stage. It is a heartbreaking time for any loving owner and for the vet, too, but working with owners who are as loving and committed as you are is gratifying for good vets, as you would enable the vet to "do his job" to his utmost ability. Dh (vet) advises clients to, fairly early in the terminal disease, come up with a short (say 3 to 5 things) list of "what your pet enjoys most" . . . and so long as your pet still has most of those things left . . . then you can keep fighting. Seems to me that you have a good feeling for both your pet's quality of life and your family's ability to care for her. I hope you find a vet who can help you. Don't be pressured in to euthanizing her before you are ready!! You will be ready when it is time. I can tell that just by the way you write about her. ((((hugs)))) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted September 10, 2014 Author Share Posted September 10, 2014 RIP Hermione The Cat 2000 - 2014 We've had her on strong meds and she had been eating and drinking and sorta walking about the house until late this evening. I went to bring her food and cat box (tho this afternoon she was coming downstairs to use it) bc I had a feeling she wouldn't want to come down. Went in son's room and our other pets were all sitting around her in a semi-circle. She looked like she was giving them the don't make me kick your butt lecture. It was kind of funny bc when I walked in they all startled like "oh no the human is onto us!" I brought her food and water. She drank some. But then started to stumble a bit looking for son. Gave that up and brought her downstairs to sit and knit with me and managed to convince her to swallow some meds. (First time it was a struggle.) and I just knew. I told dh I knew she wasn't going to make it through the night. She was just waiting for ds to get home. We could all tell. Someone would walk up and she'd get a spurt of energy. Lift her head and meow and start to purr then be all "You are not the right one!? Why are there so many Not My Boy kids in this place?!" Look at me like she knows that is all my fault and burrow back into my lap. Eventually all of them went to bed and it was just us waiting. Sure enough as soon as she saw my son get home from work she was obviously thrilled & perked up. Sat up and dragged herself into his lap next to me, licking his hand, burrowed in, purred a few seconds then gave a soft mewing exhale and died. I'm glad we had 9 more days and I think she was too. :...( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasmama Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 (((hugs))) Hermione had a good run, and she went out well, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomtoCandJ Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 I'm sorry :( I miss my kitty too. She was 12 when she ran off to die about a year ago (she was an inside/outside cat who stayed in our yard). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefgazer Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 I'm sorry for your kitty. But I am glad she made it another 9 days, too. It sounds like she went peacefully, which is the best we can all hope for, I suppose. RIP Hermione The Cat 2000 - 2014We've had her on strong meds and she had been eating and drinking and sorta walking about the house until late this evening. I went to bring her food and cat box (tho this afternoon she was coming downstairs to use it) bc I had a feeling she wouldn't want to come down. Went in son's room and our other pets were all sitting around her in a semi-circle. She looked like she was giving them the don't make me kick your butt lecture. It was kind of funny bc when I walked in they all startled like "oh no the human is onto us!"I brought her food and water. She drank some. But then started to stumble a bit looking for son. Gave that up and brought her downstairs to sit and knit with me and managed to convince her to swallow some meds. (First time it was a struggle.) and I just knew. I told dh I knew she wasn't going to make it through the night.She was just waiting for ds to get home. We could all tell. Someone would walk up and she'd get a spurt of energy. Lift her head and meow and start to purr then be all "You are not the right one!? Why are there so many Not My Boy kids in this place?!" Look at me like she knows that is all my fault and burrow back into my lap. Eventually all of them went to bed and it was just us waiting. Sure enough as soon as she saw my son get home from work she was obviously thrilled & perked up. Sat up and dragged herself into his lap next to me, licking his hand, burrowed in, purred a few seconds then gave a soft mewing exhale and died.I'm glad we had 9 more days and I think she was too.:...( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Sounds like a wonderful ending to a wonderful life. Hugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 I'm so sorry, Martha. :( It made me cry when I read about how she waited to say goodbye to your son. :crying: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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