creekland Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 Today was my first day back to work after the lengthy brain tumor radiation "stuff," and it felt really, really good - tons of welcomes from admin, staff, co-workers, and students. It was as if I had never left - kids were as respectful at before (meaning no behavior issues, etc), and all was just "right." Until... I got to hear the news from the grapevine about my youngest (currently a senior there). It's the second thing I've found out about that has bothered me - the first I found out about roughly half-way through treatment. The first thing? He got kicked out of National Honor Society for not having completed 10 volunteer hours during the past semester. What, I thought? This is a kid who voluntarily tutors other kids (at school) DAILY - for free - giving up his own club time and free reading time. He also assists with teaching TWO middle school Sunday School classes every week at church. He didn't have 10 hours? Well, no, because they won't count those. They are things he's done for a while now. They need 10 NEW hours with something he hasn't done. His schedule includes school, of course... Then he works M,T, F, S from 4 or 5pm until closing (meaning he's home around midnight and up for school at 5:30 on school days). W, Th he attends two different youth groups. Between school and his work or youth groups he gets his homework done, is on the chess team, so has practices or matches, and is also in FBLA (Future Business Leaders of America) which meets occasionally. So, essentially he has Saturday mornings or Sunday afternoons to get other volunteer hours in (and he did get a few then), but he usually does want SOME time to himself or to hang out with friends. "I" hardly ever see him! When we were gone he was also picking up more slack at home (feeding critters, watering plants - that sort of stuff). So, a student who does NOTHING extra can do 10 hours of volunteer tutoring and it counts. My guy who is scheduled out the hilt gets dismissed for not adding even more. I've bit my tongue and prayed it won't affect any scholarship apps... Then... today... I find out about the second issue: My guy is friends with a student (another senior) who is having lots of known issues mentally. The chap is on meds, but his parents are divorcing which doesn't help matters. His mom has told him she doesn't want him (probably due to issues). My guy is literally his ONLY friend there aside from a couple of teachers who have tried to reach him. He often gives his friend rides to/from school if he can persuade him to go, but he can't always persuade him - therefore the chap had in school suspension this past Monday. He wasn't going to go to that either, but my guy took time to be with him, assure him all would be ok, and walk him to the room before school. Due to doing that he was about 20 yards from his own classroom when the bell went off to start school. The admin was on the prowl that day looking for tardies, and he was rounded up along with a handful of other students. A teacher who knows both kids well (and offered to watch my guy while we were gone) was there in the hall watching the round up. She asked my guy why he was late (he NEVER is) and he told her (not complaining or expecting anything - just factual). She trotted him over to see the admin to explain his reason and they still gave him the tardy - just telling him next time to drop the kid off at the office! He didn't complain and there won't be any repercussions for one late (requires three), so it's no big deal, BUT right after he left for class, the admin person told the teacher that my guy is probably this kid's only friend and what a great kid he is!!! If they KNOW all this - WHY still punish the him??? What makes them think dropping the kid off at the office would have been better for the kid? And my guy was only seconds late by all accounts... Sometimes I wonder what they are thinking - or if they are thinking. The other teacher agrees with me and said she told me because she can't get it out of her mind. Few kids care so much about others who have issues, but my guy has taken it upon himself to try to help some of them (hence, his daily tutoring services and he's often used by guidance to show new kids around school). I saw him after school and told him to do the same thing again if the need were there! He has my FULL support. But I wonder what my school is coming to. Maybe I'm just blind to reality because it is my guy, but if so, so be it. I've never been a "letter of the law" person and never will be. Even when kids don't have their homework done, I'll ask them why. They'll freely tell me. For the times it was due to a funeral or something important/understandable, I'll give them a pass on losing the points if they get it done for the next day. I just can't imagine being or doing otherwise. A late tardy because you overslept or lost track of time in the hall? You deserve it. One because you were helping another student with KNOWN issues who really needs help? No way! So, I'm on here venting - totally thrilled to be back - but not sure how long it will last if my school switches to be like many I've heard about on here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momto2blessings Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 Crazy rules. Your son sounds like a real gem, I'm sure you're proud!! Hope you're feeling o.k. and thing like this don't keep happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 Um, did he spend 10 hours helping you? I'll be he did amid all his other projects. I'm glad you're back at school, I'm sorry about the lunacy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 I *hate* the autocratic nature of school. I am so sorry this is happening to your son. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane in NC Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 My school system seems insistent on applying rules rigidly for the sake of "fairness". What seems lost in the process is common sense. So sorry to have this happen to your son. So happy to know you are back in your old routine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumto2 Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 Glad to hear you are back at school. I am sure you were missed greatly there while gone. The Honor Society kicking your son out for not doing 10 new volunteer hours infuriates me. I remember kids belonging who never even came to a meeting, much less participating. Obviously things have changed. Your son willingly gave his time to help others and was even somewhat supervised by the staff, boggles the mind. Time is time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 It's not rocket science. They're trying to teach him that it's more important to obey than to think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In The Great White North Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 He should tell them he's going to quit tutoring so he has time to do "new" volunteer hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alice Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 Sorry for all this for you and your son. Not want you want to hear after being away and dealing with illness, I'm sure. The NHS volunteer rule thing reminds me of a program I was briefly part of in college. It was a women's leadership program where you took certain classes, did an internship and participated in lectures/other activities. I was accepted freshman year and began the required classes, I think in sophomore year if I remember correctly. Then they required that you do an internship in an area that you were interested in. I was a chemistry/biology major, going to med school. I began doing research during my sophomore year with the biochemistry professor at the school and was able to get a grant to continue that during the summer. I could see going in that it would be impossible to also do an internship. Being a Bio/Chem major meant I typically carried 18 credit hours, research added to that was an additional 3-4 hours a week, plus I worked as a lab assistant, etc. So I went to them and asked if the research I was doing could count as the internship. I was willing to write a paper or somehow add to it to make it more of a traditional internship. But nope. It had to be "a new internship" and research couldn't count. The head seriously expected me to stop working with the biochem guy in order to take a different internship that would likely be only a few months. At that point I decided the program wasn't worth it and dropped out. The funny part though (at least funny to me) was that my roommate stayed in the program and eventually became president. Because of that I ended up helping her with some of the speakers and activities and many people never knew I dropped out. I told them I did but I think they kept forgetting. Eventually I got tired of correcting them and just gave it up. I still get mail from the program as an "alumni" even though I only completed one out of three years. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corraleno Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 I'm so sorry this happened to your son, Creekland. He sounds like an awesome kid who will be an asset to his college and any future company he works for. Thank goodness he only has to endure this kind of legalistic BS for a few more months! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura in CA Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 That is absurd! :glare: You are right to be proud of him. I'm glad you told him he has your support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 If I were you, I would pitch a screaming mimi about the National Honor Society. Appeal that idiotic decision all the way up as far as it needs to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quark Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 That school does not deserve your son! What a load of BS! :cursing: Sorry, I don't normally swear...but this is the second crazy thing I've heard today with regards to a crummy school experience. I wasn't aware of your health issues. So sorry you and your son have to put up with all this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbara H Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 I'm happy to hear you are back at work. That's unfortunate about the changes at the school. This kind of rigidity may buy compliance from teenagers but it will never earn respect. And, it is always striking to me how as a culture we can act like 12th graders can't be trusted to leave class to go to the bathroom, but magically four months later they can live on their own, decide if and when to go to class, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raptor_dad Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 It's not rocket science. They're trying to teach him that it's more important to obey than to think. YES! This is one major reason we homeschool. I will not allow my quirky square peg of a kid to be pounded into the systems round hole. They can have their little boxes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elisabet1 Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 My daughter is being kicked out of NHS for not giving blood. I am not kidding. Plus, they require volunteer hours where they pick the hours. It can be the stupidest stuff too. She had to spend a Saturday timing swim meets. We have given so much money too!! They have taken up gift cards and food donations. I am tired of it! IF I ever have a child IN a brick and mortar school again, we will not do NHS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 Huge hugs! Glad you are back and so incredibly sorry they have become so rigid. Your son sounds like an amazing young man and a true asset to the school. The school is being ridiculous. And it is happening all over. I hear stories all the time from my many friends and family members who are working in school systems around the United States. Just as an example, my SIL is a teacher at a public middle school that now requires uniforms. School logo red shirts on M,W and school logo blue shirts on T, TH, blue mascot Tshirts on Fridays. Parents have to pay for the shirts, and there weren't enough shirts made for each child to have more than one of each color so they have to rewash a LOT. My SIL and the other teachers are now required to patrol the halls and the entry way as students arrive to make certain they are wearing the correct shirt. If not, the student gets immediate detention. SIL saw a straight A student she knows well walking in with the wrong color shirt. He explained to her that his single parent mother worked until midnight every night that week and they were unable to get to the laundry mat to wash all their clothes. The clean shirt was the wrong color but it was still the school approved logo so he was hoping it would be o.k. since he had three tests to take that day and didn't want to miss them. SIL let him go on to class but the principal saw what she had done, sent the kid to detention immediately and sanctioned SIL for not following the rules. The kid was not allowed to make up the tests. Who actually benefited from this situation? Anyone at all? I agree with others, if you have the energy, fight for the NHS. Honestly, this kind of rigidity is only harming kids, not helping. Your son deserves to be recognized for his incredibly hard work and dedication!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted March 8, 2014 Author Share Posted March 8, 2014 Um, did he spend 10 hours helping you? I'll be he did amid all his other projects. I'm glad you're back at school, I'm sorry about the lunacy. Helping family doesn't count. It has to be "community" service. He did have some hours in - helping one of his clubs clean out an old building and packing shoeboxes for Operation Christmas Child with church, but not enough. It's not rocket science. They're trying to teach him that it's more important to obey than to think. It's really frustrating. The student he helps is probably the worst case of "issues" that any of us have seen (mentally - not mean - but withdrawn - often won't talk - hard to stay on any task even basic ones, etc) and the meds he takes have made him gain significant weight (along with lack of exercise, I'm sure). In 9th grade he was fine and was on the chess team, etc, but now other kids shun him. Some teachers don't particularly care for him either (it's difficult to get him to do anything in class unless you stand right over him keeping him focused - then you have about a 50% chance). My guy will spend some of his free time on weekends at his house trying to help him socialize. He tries to help him with school - esp giving him rides EVERY morning he can get him to go to school so he doesn't have to take the bus. Then he's told to drop him off at the office rather than be late to class - when he WASN'T even that late (seriously - just seconds away from the door when the bell rang - other teachers told me this - it's not just hearsay from him). He should tell them he's going to quit tutoring so he has time to do "new" volunteer hours. Oh... I REALLY wish I had thought about this one! It would have been ideal. The NHS volunteer rule thing reminds me of a program I was briefly part of in college. It was a women's leadership program where you took certain classes, did an internship and participated in lectures/other activities. I was accepted freshman year and began the required classes, I think in sophomore year if I remember correctly. Then they required that you do an internship in an area that you were interested in. I was a chemistry/biology major, going to med school. I began doing research during my sophomore year with the biochemistry professor at the school and was able to get a grant to continue that during the summer. I could see going in that it would be impossible to also do an internship. Being a Bio/Chem major meant I typically carried 18 credit hours, research added to that was an additional 3-4 hours a week, plus I worked as a lab assistant, etc. So I went to them and asked if the research I was doing could count as the internship. I was willing to write a paper or somehow add to it to make it more of a traditional internship. But nope. It had to be "a new internship" and research couldn't count. The head seriously expected me to stop working with the biochem guy in order to take a different internship that would likely be only a few months. At that point I decided the program wasn't worth it and dropped out. The funny part though (at least funny to me) was that my roommate stayed in the program and eventually became president. Because of that I ended up helping her with some of the speakers and activities and many people never knew I dropped out. I told them I did but I think they kept forgetting. Eventually I got tired of correcting them and just gave it up. I still get mail from the program as an "alumni" even though I only completed one out of three years. :) It's sad to think this sort of thing continues! What ARE people thinking??? I'm so sorry this happened to your son, Creekland. He sounds like an awesome kid who will be an asset to his college and any future company he works for. Thank goodness he only has to endure this kind of legalistic BS for a few more months! I'm am REALLY glad he's graduating this year! A little less than three more months... But I'll admit to feeling sorry for the other chap when my guy leaves for FL. I have no idea what will happen to him. He has no motivation and little family support (mom wanted to send him to foster care, but dad is giving him a place to live until he graduates - I'm not sure he will graduate). If I were you, I would pitch a screaming mimi about the National Honor Society. Appeal that idiotic decision all the way up as far as it needs to go. I heard about it after the fact as it occurred when I was gone back in Jan. I mentioned it at school, but was told they need to keep the rules the same for all and that other kids work, etc. plus it's only 10 hours. They have a point. Had I been here and/or known about it I'd have coached him to give some work hours to a co-worker and spend a few more hours doing something as he wasn't short by much. He could have done that, but he didn't think about doing it. That school does not deserve your son! What a load of BS! :cursing: Sorry, I don't normally swear...but this is the second crazy thing I've heard today with regards to a crummy school experience. I wasn't aware of your health issues. So sorry you and your son have to put up with all this. The health issues aren't that bad, fortunately, just time consuming. This, of course, assumes that the radiation they did worked. I won't know about that until June - after graduation. My daughter is being kicked out of NHS for not giving blood. I am not kidding. Plus, they require volunteer hours where they pick the hours. It can be the stupidest stuff too. She had to spend a Saturday timing swim meets. We have given so much money too!! They have taken up gift cards and food donations. I am tired of it! IF I ever have a child IN a brick and mortar school again, we will not do NHS. Uh... what about students who CAN'T give blood? Ours hasn't hit us up for money at least... unless my guy was the one giving it (possible). It could have helped him if they had assigned hours, but options would be better than "definites." Our members have to come up with their hours themselves. That sounds very strict. Here they have the entire school year to get their tutoring hours in. Its very nice difficult if the student plays a sport and does not have a study hall. It cant be informal either..giving your friends hw help during lunch or performing your section leader (music) duties dont count. Must be officially arranged, during lunch, study hall, or after school.surprised there is no probation before dismissal in your son's case. His tutoring is all arranged at the guidance office - he's tutoring in the guidance office. Right now he has Alg and Chem students. It varies based upon who has needs. He does a bit of math/science (that's my boy!) and French. They did give him a one week probation period to finish getting his hours. Unfortunately, at that time, IF we were home, we only saw him for 10 minutes every morning before school. He didn't tell either of us that it was going on, and that week was a super scheduled one for him, so he didn't see how (or what) he could do. We only found out about it later when we received a letter in the mail informing us of his dismissal. There may have been a letter earlier, but if so, he intercepted it. He's not 100% in the "right" in this, and the school has a point that he could have gotten it done. If I had been here and able to coach him, it would have been ok. But I wasn't. It's just annoying to me that he does SO MUCH already and students who normally do nothing can just do 10 hours of tutoring and be perfectly fine since it's "new" to them. And it is happening all over. I hear stories all the time from my many friends and family members who are working in school systems around the United States. Just as an example, my SIL is a teacher at a public middle school that now requires uniforms. School logo red shirts on M,W and school logo blue shirts on T, TH, blue mascot Tshirts on Fridays. Parents have to pay for the shirts, and there weren't enough shirts made for each child to have more than one of each color so they have to rewash a LOT. My SIL and the other teachers are now required to patrol the halls and the entry way as students arrive to make certain they are wearing the correct shirt. If not, the student gets immediate detention. SIL saw a straight A student she knows well walking in with the wrong color shirt. He explained to her that his single parent mother worked until midnight every night that week and they were unable to get to the laundry mat to wash all their clothes. The clean shirt was the wrong color but it was still the school approved logo so he was hoping it would be o.k. since he had three tests to take that day and didn't want to miss them. SIL let him go on to class but the principal saw what she had done, sent the kid to detention immediately and sanctioned SIL for not following the rules. The kid was not allowed to make up the tests. Who actually benefited from this situation? Anyone at all? This is what I really don't like. Our school really has been a bit more in the "common sense" line rather than the "letter of the law" line. I've never cared for their underperformance academically (hence why we started homeschooling, but youngest wanted to return for high school - his homeschooling is part of why he can BE a tutor ;) ), but I've always liked their common sense with other things. Now, due to NCLB and state tests, etc, our academics are getting a little better. However, it appears this is coming right along with a change in the common sense realm. (Last year one student was denied the ability to go to his sibling's college graduation because he didn't get his pre-arranged form in on time. Had he cut school, he would have been fined as the admin knew about it. This NEVER would have happened in the old days.) Why can't we just get the good changes without the bad? Fortunately, we're not up to uniforms and color coded shirts - yet. That school is REALLY nuts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craftymama Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 My daughter is being kicked out of NHS for not giving blood. I am not kidding. Plus, they require volunteer hours where they pick the hours. It can be the stupidest stuff too. She had to spend a Saturday timing swim meets. We have given so much money too!! They have taken up gift cards and food donations. I am tired of it! IF I ever have a child IN a brick and mortar school again, we will not do NHS. How can they require a student to give blood? That seems a huge overstep on to me. What if your child can't give blood - sickness, weight, etc.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane in NC Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 How can they require a student to give blood? That seems a huge overstep on to me. What if your child can't give blood - sickness, weight, etc.? It is my impression that Jehovah's Witnesses do not donate blood. Is there a religious exemption? Those who have been in places where there is malaria or other diseases are not allowed to donate. Does this school have a check off list for exemptions? I would really question the legality of this requirement. Has no one brought it to the media's attention? (I feel very sorry for any teen who must publicly prove why he or she is unable to donate. It is really nobody's business.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lolly Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 How can they require a student to give blood? That seems a huge overstep on to me. What if your child can't give blood - sickness, weight, etc.? I'd bet if you tried and were refused it would count for giving blood. What I have never understood is how you can have mandatory volunteer hours. Dd19b's college has mandatory service hours each semester. I don't think they should be allowed to call them volunteer hours if they are a requirement. Semantics? Yes, but at least it is accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThisIsTheDay Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: I'm sorry, Creek. After everything else, this is lousy to come back and have to deal with. You've had lots of great advice, and this kind of school garbage will not hold back your son. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In The Great White North Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 Good Grief! Doesn't the National Honor Society have NATIONAL criteria? ETA. I googled. No, it doesn't. There is nothing National About the National Honor Society. (highlighting mine) Become a Student Member Eager to become an NHS member? We don't blame you! Below, you'll find the information you need to set you on the right track for joining this prestigious community. (Please note that the national office is not responsible for the selection or rejection of individual members.) Verify Your Local Chapter To join NHS, your school must run an active local chapter. You can use our Chapter Finder to search for your school to verify their status with the NHS national office. If your school doesn't have an active chapter, email your principal the link to our Start a Chapter page and encourage them to bring NHS to your community. Learn Your Chapter's Eligibility Requirements Every chapter has different qualifications for membership based on the four pillars of National Honor Society: character, scholarship, leadership, and service. Chapters are required to publish their selection procedures and methodologies publically, so ask your local chapter adviser or principal for a copy of your school's specific qualifications. However, the last part I highlighted might help you. Does their PUBLISHED written material say the volunteer hours must be NEW? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teachin'Mine Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 And to think that these administrators are the same ones saying our students need to learn critical thinking skills. I hope you and your son are able to find something in the bylaws to help fight the decision, or to at least give him extra time to make up the hours, but if not, he's got the right priorities and will excel not only in college, but in life. You taught him well and must be so proud of him. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cricket Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 Would tutoring count if it was a new kid, not tutored before? I'd try to find a way to document the time using whatever criteria they have. If the tutoring is arranged through the office, that wouldn't work though. That stinks! Your guy sounds like a great kid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted March 8, 2014 Author Share Posted March 8, 2014 Good Grief! Doesn't the National Honor Society have NATIONAL criteria? ETA. I googled. No, it doesn't. There is nothing National About the National Honor Society. (highlighting mine) However, the last part I highlighted might help you. Does their PUBLISHED written material say the volunteer hours must be NEW? Yes, their published papers say the volunteer hours can't be part of the student's regular activities. We do not plan to fight this (though I did ask about it). I just find it annoying and wish I had been around to provide some "mom" coaching rather than finding out about it after it has all happened. Then too, I'm hopeful it doesn't rerail a few scholarship apps he has. Other than that "real" possibility, in the long run, this will have no bearing upon his life other than providing a story of his youth. He didn't follow published requirements, so technically they are right on this one (albeit annoying). His tardy for helping his friend is totally wrong IMO (but again - just an annoyance rather than any long term issue). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted March 8, 2014 Author Share Posted March 8, 2014 Would tutoring count if it was a new kid, not tutored before? I'd try to find a way to document the time using whatever criteria they have. If the tutoring is arranged through the office, that wouldn't work though. That stinks! Your guy sounds like a great kid. It is and always has been set up via guidance, so definitely not something "new" even though he does it for an hour per day practically every day (only misses if he has a meeting he has to attend). The bolded is the part I cherish the most. He is working to earn college and spending $$. He is loved at school by his teachers (though he does have deadline issues - that's NOT just a homeschooler deal). He has a good peer group. He tries to help others. Those are all far more lasting qualities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkT Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 Just another example of American schools de-evolution into total crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted March 8, 2014 Author Share Posted March 8, 2014 Just another example of American schools de-evolution into total crap. Exactly my thoughts and why it bugs me when it's happening at my school. I always get annoyed reading about such things happening at other schools, but when it hits home, it increases the feelings tremendously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 If I were you, I would pitch a screaming mimi about the National Honor Society. Appeal that idiotic decision all the way up as far as it needs to go. Why bother?? Is there something really great having the label provides?? I was in NHS at my regular high school, and then when I switched to the school I graduated from (residential school for the gifted), we didn't have one. Seems stupid to me. Let the loons rot in their own pathetic smallness. Good people are recognizable by their works and don't need labels like that. And to think that these administrators are the same ones saying our students need to learn critical thinking skills. Bingo. They SAY they want people to learn to think, but they really don't. They actually only want you to think in segregated areas (literature, science class, whatever), not all day long about real life, because THINKING is inconvenient and requires THEM to think. It's much easier to make b&w rules and enforce them blindly. The crock is when institutions of higher education do this, treating blossoming adults like CHILDREN. It can be argued that there *might* be a place for this in high school, though I certainly don't see it by their senior year. Definitely by college you should be seeing this shift, and again you don't see it in all schools. The whole point of most institutional learning is to create automatons who follow rules. If you don't follow the rules, you get slammed. To THINK is rebellion against the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian (a lady) Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 Was I explained in the written guidelines that volunteer hours had to be a new project? If not I would explain how that gave a priority to flighty switching of service over long term commitment that could really make a difference. We picked up trash this morning with my in-laws. They have done monthly pick up with the same community association for 15 years. My mil mentioned that they often only have one other person helping. Teens will come once when they need hours but not commit along term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 Btw, having said all that nastiness about institutions, inflexibility, etc., I would still tell my ds that's the game, that's how it is, follow the rules. I would also suggest that following the rule will help the boy (the struggling friend) realize that HIS actions and unwillingness to be on time HURT HIS FRIEND. This can be an important wake-up call, and bending the rules doesn't help him see that. It acts as if he's a victim with no choice in the matter. Perhaps he's just not had somebody he cared about enough that he was willing to step up to the plate. So your boy can be there for him, but your ds has to be clear that he has to follow the rules and could he please be a little earlier so he doesn't get into trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted March 8, 2014 Author Share Posted March 8, 2014 Was I explained in the written guidelines that volunteer hours had to be a new project? If not I would explain how that gave a priority to flighty switching of service over long term commitment that could really make a difference. We picked up trash this morning with my in-laws. They have done monthly pick up with the same community association for 15 years. My mil mentioned that they often only have one other person helping. Teens will come once when they need hours but not commit along term. It was explained in the written rules each student received before being inducted. My guy spending a couple of hours picking up trash (once) would likely have put him over the recommended needed (with what he already had). A student doing it regularly wouldn't be able to count it. It definitely doesn't lend itself to long term anything. Btw, having said all that nastiness about institutions, inflexibility, etc., I would still tell my ds that's the game, that's how it is, follow the rules. I would also suggest that following the rule will help the boy (the struggling friend) realize that HIS actions and unwillingness to be on time HURT HIS FRIEND. This can be an important wake-up call, and bending the rules doesn't help him see that. It acts as if he's a victim with no choice in the matter. Perhaps he's just not had somebody he cared about enough that he was willing to step up to the plate. So your boy can be there for him, but your ds has to be clear that he has to follow the rules and could he please be a little earlier so he doesn't get into trouble. For many kids, this might work, but for this guy, it would likely only drive him deeper into his shell. Out of all my years of teaching, he really is unusually affected by something. FWIW, had he just been going to class (rather than in school suspension), both would have easily been on time. It was his hesitancy about going to suspension that slowed them up that morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel Yell Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 My daughter is being kicked out of NHS for not giving blood. I am not kidding. Plus, they require volunteer hours where they pick the hours. It can be the stupidest stuff too. She had to spend a Saturday timing swim meets. We have given so much money too!! They have taken up gift cards and food donations. I am tired of it! IF I ever have a child IN a brick and mortar school again, we will not do NHS. :svengo: :banghead: One of mine was an absolute wreck when she had to have blood drawn. A mandatory blood donation would probably make her go an entirely new category of insane. Not to mention all the people who cannot give blood- weight, age, ilness, etc. But seriously- I have very very grave concerns about mandatory "donations" of blood, especially by children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elisabet1 Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 :svengo: :banghead: One of mine was an absolute wreck when she had to have blood drawn. A mandatory blood donation would probably make her go an entirely new category of insane. Not to mention all the people who cannot give blood- weight, age, ilness, etc. But seriously- I have very very grave concerns about mandatory "donations" of blood, especially by children. I thought about bringing it to the attention of the principal, but, we already had trouble with the NHS people when they refused to induct her in the beginning, because she had been a home schooler. They said she needed more time to prove herself at THEIR school (she had been at a different school the 2 years prior, then home schooled before that, so not like they were using grades I just made up). This led to a nasty fall out with those teachers and the principal where people were angry and yelling. Now we have one foot out the door. She graduates this year. Literally, 10 more weeks of school. I am thinking she just won't have her NHS vest when she graduates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idnib Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 What a bunch of unthinking idiots. I'm sorry this is happening. It's crazy that your son has to put up with this to rise above the rules and be a decent human being. Ugh. I guess a positive side would be that he's seeing it's more important to do the right thing than follow the bureaucracy, even if you have to take your lumps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted March 9, 2014 Author Share Posted March 9, 2014 I guess a positive side would be that he's seeing it's more important to do the right thing than follow the bureaucracy, even if you have to take your lumps. This is something I've always tried to teach all of my boys - never to blindly follow rules and sometimes rules ought to be broken or it's ok if they get broken. (NOT always or "just because," but sometimes - pending the situation.) I am a little disappointed he didn't tell us about the NHS thing when he was on probation as we could have guided him in what to do, but he thought it better to keep that problem from me/us at the time rather than putting more stress on me. He didn't realize a solution existed. I can understand his reasoning. The tardy incident with the friend? I'm PROUD of how he handled it - very mature with the admin and taking his punishment with no protests or complaints, but very much knowing he'd do the same thing over again if it happened again. Helping his friend is more important. It should always be more important. Now if he'd just been outside the classroom chatting with friends (esp "normal" friends), then he would have gotten what he deserved. Getting to "work" on time is a priority - it's just not always the "top" priority in special situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 This is something I've always tried to teach all of my boys - never to blindly follow rules and sometimes rules ought to be broken or it's ok if they get broken. (NOT always or "just because," but sometimes - pending the situation.) It sounds like you've done a great job with that. You know with the short attention span of like the entire world it seems lately, I would think there would be a priority on stability and sticking to a commitment instead of jumping to some new thing to appease an hours requirement. I'm trying to instill in my son the ability and desire to do what is right regardless of the situation. In the end, no qualification tells us who we really are. By standing with the other boy despite missing out on his accolades, your son has defined who he is, in a very positive way. What a beautiful testimony of true character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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