Laura Corin Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 If there are company-wide rules (working hours, expected activity, vacation days), should a manager (not an owner) follow them? Or is disobeying the rules one of the perks of being a manager? The kind of things I am talking about are: openly going for a hair cut or getting petrol during work hours; leaving work at midday the day before a vacation 'to pack'; surfing the net during work hours. The manager does not expect his subordinates to behave similarly, and grumbles when people are called away by family emergencies. I can see it from both sides - I have no horse in this race. I'm just wondering what people think? L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Library Momma Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 It depends on if his father (or father-in-law) owns the company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 It depends. For example, if the manager works on salary and regularly works a greater number of hours than the hours of a regular employee, then I think popping out for a haircut now and then is fine. By the same token, the same manager should expect to fill in when other people have emergencies. That's the whole point, I would think. I voted sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted January 21, 2014 Author Share Posted January 21, 2014 It depends on if his father (or father-in-law) owns the company. No - he's just a hired manager in a branch office, so he has no higher manager on site. L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted January 21, 2014 Author Share Posted January 21, 2014 It depends. For example, if the manager works on salary and regularly works a greater number of hours than the hours of a regular employee, then I think popping out for a haircut now and then is fine. By the same token, the same manager should expect to fill in when other people have emergencies. That's the whole point, I would think. I voted sometimes. He works strict hours. If he works a trade show at weekends, or goes out to a work dinner, he takes time off in lieu. L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 In my experience, managers often work more hours which they are not paid for, so yes, I think it is fair for them to do personal stuff during the "work day" if this does not cause problems with everyone's work getting done. I used to work until 2am and then I would come in at 10am or work from home the next day. Don't really care who didn't like it. The work got done, it didn't inconvenience anyone. I had put in my time as a staff member. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Library Momma Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 He's abusing his position. I've seen managers like this. It will come back to bite him when there is an important last minute conference call and he's at the barber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KatieJ Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 I voted sometimes. My DH is a salaried manager. He is an engineer but is the IT guy as well the past few years. His phone is always on . He can and does work from home or when we are on vacation. If he works Sunday, his salary doesn't change much. A token 100.00 doens't really cover 12 hours on a weekend. He has clocked on from Hawaii and pretty much every other place we have ever visited. So, while breaking rules that are unethical is not acceptable, cutting out early on the day before vacation might happen. That is a perk of being a manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SproutMamaK Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 That depends on what they're being paid for, if they're still doing what's expected of them, and if the owner is aware and finds it acceptable. It would vary greatly by company, I assume. However, I can only imagine that it would be incredibly demoralizing to the employees to have a high standard of behaviour of them, and then have it flaunted in their faces that the same person demanding those standards is violating them (particularly if it's something silly like a haircut, web time, etc). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 He works strict hours. If he works a trade show at weekends, or goes out to a work dinner, he takes time off in lieu. L Ah, in that case, I would say he should follow the same rules set for everyone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 How do you know he doesn't do any work outside of office hours? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 A supervisor who does not follow the rules sets a bad example for his employees. He should model the behavior he expects to see from his staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted January 21, 2014 Author Share Posted January 21, 2014 How do you know he doesn't do any work outside of office hours? It's a good question. It's the building trade - not a lot goes on after dark (building houses, not emergency maintenance). All his files are at work and he's very much a paper-based guy - I see him come in and leave empty-handed. I'd be really, really surprised to hear that he had done anything outside of office hours. L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 If a manager is a salaried employee and the workers are hourly employees and salaried employees are allowed to take personal time off during the work day, then the behavior you're describing is reasonable. But if everyone has set work hours and is paid by the hour, then the manager should be expected to follow the same rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SproutMamaK Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 It's a good question. It's the building trade - not a lot goes on after dark (building houses, not emergency maintenance). All his files are at work and he's very much a paper-based guy - I see him come in and leave empty-handed. I'd be really, really surprised to hear that he had done anything outside of office hours. L Well then he's just an obnoxious brat and I'd wonder how he got the job in the first place, especially given your earlier comment about the fact that he's (supposed to be) working strict hours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alte Veste Academy Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 The manager should set the example. Following the rules is setting a good example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali in OR Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 That is for his higher-ups in the company to determine. In dh's company full of engineers, rules like you mention are pretty lax for everyone. They're all on late night calls with Asia or early morning calls with Europe, so it's okay to go get their haircut when they have a spare moment during the day and won't impact anyone else, or leave early to go watch their kid's softball game. They're salaried employees, but if you counted the hours they work, they all average much more than an 8 hour day. Now for a retail business, it's a lot harder to sneak out during the day without impacting the business. Rules may be a bit tighter. But it's for the people running the company to define. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KatieJ Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 I would say this is not breaking rules exactly. Salaried employees who are working these crazy on call hours should be allowed to sometimes cut out early. I can't imagine as the owner of a company having a problem with that so long as the manager was doing a good job and it was apparent he was putting in the time. ACtually things are not always as they appear to outsiders. I should have stated this in my post. My DH would rarely on his own leave work early. His boss has made it a point that if you are going on vacation starting the next Monday, it is ok to leave early on Friday. Surfing the net would never happen except at his lunch hour. He doens't have time. :lol: OP, as I stated above, it is hard to judge what really goes on in managerial postions from the outside looking in. If there seems to be missuse of power, then there very well may be, and possibly his boss needs to be informed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie12345 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 I voted other. A lot (imo) depends on the demands of the business. Dh's job involves taking client calls at all hours, any day of the week, meetings at all hours across a tri-state area, work that has to be finished (or started) regardless of what the clock says... If anyone in his office begrudges him a 3:00 hair cut or 11am bank run so that we can pretend to be a normal family a couple of times a week, they can feel free to call me and complain. ;-p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meriwether Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 I voted yes before I read your examples. My husband is not a manager, but he is allowed to do all those things as long as his job gets done. His manager would take off time to go get a haircut if it didn't interfere with his job, but so can the other workers. Dh often leaves a few hours early when we are traveling. He never uses all of his vacation time so his boss is extremely lenient with that. Dh was a manager at our last location. He had less freedom then because he had more responsibilities. He lost about 2 weeks of vacation one year, because there was no one to cover for him if he took time off. I still vote yes on what I consider rules. In fact, the manager should be a good example. I don't think the job descriptions are all the same though. An employee should not come back late for lunch, but occasionally a manager will have lunch out with the boss/customer/visiting VIP that lasts longer than a lunch break. Mostly, Dh worked through lunch at his desk, but he did occasionally take customers out or go out to eat with someone from corporate office. He was following the rules but the rules themselves were different for him in that case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bootsie Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 A manager should follow the rules of the company, but that doesn't mean that everyone in the company has the same rules--RHIP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 I voted a manager should follow the rules. They are meant to be leading by example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted January 21, 2014 Author Share Posted January 21, 2014 The no-surfing rule is company-wide for all employees. At head office, popular sites (Facebook etc.) are blocked except for at lunchtime. The branch office has a separate internet system and no blockers, but the same rules. The (generous by US standards) vacation days are identical for all employees too. L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoobie Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 A manager should follow the rules of the company, but that doesn't mean that everyone in the company has the same rules--RHIP Yes, this. The manager OP has described seems to be abusing the company policies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T'smom Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 I think it makes a difference if the manager is salaried and the employees are not. If the manager is salaried, he isn't compensated for working extra, so taking off some here or there isn't as big of a deal as it is in a clock- in, clock-out situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 If there are company-wide rules (working hours, expected activity, vacation days), should a manager (not an owner) follow them? Or is disobeying the rules one of the perks of being a manager? The kind of things I am talking about are: openly going for a hair cut or getting petrol during work hours; leaving work at midday the day before a vacation 'to pack'; surfing the net during work hours. The manager does not expect his subordinates to behave similarly, and grumbles when people are called away by family emergencies. I can see it from both sides - I have no horse in this race. I'm just wondering what people think? L I have no issues with a manager getting his hair cut during business hours provided he considers that part of his break or lunch time. My dh usually gets his hair cut mid-day from work. It falls under the category of running errands on your own personal time. Leaving the office to pack or choosing to surf the net are blatant time theft from the company. No one, including managers, should do this. In my experience, the best managers are people who work hard, and who often work longer hours. They should set the example in working honorably rather than taking advantage of the power of their position. The flip side is that often if a manager works longer hours, he is entitled to "comp time." If, for example, my dh stays up until 2am finishing a project for a meeting the next day, he is fully entitled to come in a little later. He didn't steal any time from the company; rather, the company got more than its fair share of dh's hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Have read the full thread now. Sounds like your manager is taking advantage inappropriately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jar7709 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 I think all employees should abide by the rules, but ime a lot of this is specific to company culture and depends upon the duties of the manager. I'm a salaried project manager, and no one gives a fig what I do when as long as my work is done well and on time. and I communicate well with clients and other employees both above and below me on the chain. The company I work for grants a lot of autonomy and ownership to the employees...and usually gets better quality work and longer hours out of them as a result. No matter what I still get the same amount of vacation time etc as the other employees, but I do get somewhat more choice and flexibility with how I use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amy in NH Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 I think rules should be followed on a situational basis. By everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFSinIL Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 A supervisor who does not follow the rules sets a bad example for his employees. He should model the behavior he expects to see from his staff. This! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 I voted sometimes because I do think that one of the perks of being higher up can be more flexibility, especially because you often end up working more "off" hours and there's no compensation. Especially for small things... eh. I get it. But in the situation you're describing, good grief. No way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah CB Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 He works strict hours. If he works a trade show at weekends, or goes out to a work dinner, he takes time off in lieu. L In that case, I'd say definitely not. In cases where the manager is expected to be available to do work on evenings and weekends and is expected to answer emails and phone calls when not in the office without any remuneration, then I would think that popping out during the day once in a while is a perk well earned. But, if the manager isn't putting a lot of his own time into the company, then he shouldn't be using company time for his errands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tap Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 It depends on how many hours his supervisors expect him to be at work. A person may be considered full time, but the status quo may actually be 30 or 35, with the expectation that they will work more if needed. It really depends on his job description. Does he have a specific list of tasks to do and when that list is done, he is done? Is he there to supervise otherwise competent adults that don't really need supervision? Is he there to meet clients, accept orders, and make sales calls...all things that you can schedule around leaving early on vacation? If his job is completed and he is not pushing his work off on to anyone else to leave early, then I don't see a problem. Shaving off a few hours in that company, could just be a perk of the job as a manager. I would feel differently if he is pushing off his task on to someone else, asking others to stay late to cover meetings or sign for orders he is supposed to be there to accept, etc. Dh had a job like that for a while. As long as there was one person to cover the office, it didn't matter if he left early or not (He was the owner but it would have been the same if he was the manager). There were days that he ran out of existing work to do, it was not a good time of day to call new clients, or to try to make sales calls , and all the deliveries etc were done. His assistant was paid only for worked hours. It would have looked lop-sided but she had a set pay check each week and his was based on the business he brought in. If he wasn't doing his job effectively during the hours he was there, then he wouldn't have needed the assistant because there would have been no business. LOL I have also seen some people who just work very fast and complete their tasks faster than others. My coworker and I are like this. She types WAYYYY faster than I do and can get done about a half hour before I do in an eight hour day, if we are doing the same job. She shouldn't be penalized because she is faster at her job than I am. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie4b Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 If there are company-wide rules (working hours, expected activity, vacation days), should a manager (not an owner) follow them? Or is disobeying the rules one of the perks of being a manager? The kind of things I am talking about are: openly going for a hair cut or getting petrol during work hours; leaving work at midday the day before a vacation 'to pack'; surfing the net during work hours. The manager does not expect his subordinates to behave similarly, and grumbles when people are called away by family emergencies. I can see it from both sides - I have no horse in this race. I'm just wondering what people think? L For those kinds of things, yes, s/he should follow the company policy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitten18 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 It's a good question. It's the building trade - not a lot goes on after dark (building houses, not emergency maintenance). All his files are at work and he's very much a paper-based guy - I see him come in and leave empty-handed. I'd be really, really surprised to hear that he had done anything outside of office hours. L My DH was an executive for a large homebuilding company. He spent many hours (after hours) a week on the phone with his superintendents and project managers. The people who worked in his office would not have seen that. However, he also never worked less than 60 hours a week in the office (or in the field). The idea of DH taking time off because he went to a business dinner or trade show made me laugh. I can't even imagine that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ripley Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 I voted other. The manager should if (s)he expects the underlings to. In short, the manager sets the example - good or poor - and should be prepared to deal with any glory or fallout resulting from that example. My dad and I worked for the same international company for years. He's still there, I recently retired. He is upper management, I was on the front line. He believes the same. Unfortunately the middle management layer between us didn't always see things that way, and there was often tension at that level. That's pretty much the only thing he and I ever agreed on when it came to work and our company. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.