Thoughts on marriage and divorce??

[PeacefulChaos]

I'm just pondering - the poll posted had me thinking a little bit.  I'll go ahead and say there is no personal reason for me posting this - I'm just wondering what things people generally tolerate within marriages, when most people consider divorce to be an option, etc.

 

So I would definitely say abuse is a deal breaker for most people (hopefully all?), right?  As an aside to that, what sort of abuse?  All?  Emotional, verbal, etc? 

Use of illegal substances?

Repetitive cheating?  Or one time cheating?

General lack of care for the welfare of the rest of the family?

What else?  Is there such thing as just 'not loving' someone any more?  Or not 'being in love', as they say? 

What about a change in religious beliefs?  A sudden turn into a belief that you don't agree with, or that places a strain on you or devalues you in some way?

Do some people just grow apart?  Do they just not care enough about their spouse? 

 

Do too many people get married just because they think they 'have' to, based on religion?  For example, if Jack and Cheri want to have sex, they may believe the only way to not sin would be to get married.  Or if they do go ahead and have sex anyway, they may see their only couse of action as getting married.  Same thing if they get pregnant, etc.  Does that sort of thinking still exist??

 

Are most divorces, in your experience (with people you know, or personally, whatever) amicable? 

 

Or do you not believe in divorce at all?  Do most people go into marriage thinking 'divorce isn't an option'?

 

Like I said, I'm just pondering.  I know that most of us never can really know what we would do in a situation if we weren't IN it.  There are just so many things that could be deal breakers... or could not, just depending on the circumstances. 

 

[Renee in NC]

What a loaded topic!

 

I don't know that anyone here can say definitively what they will or won't do.  I never thought in a million years that I would be getting divorced.  In my mind divorce was not an option.  There were a whole lot of factors involved, and none are/were trivial in my mind.  I had to do what was best for my children AND myself.

 

I hope it will be amicable.  I think it will be.  We don't have anything to fight over.  

 

 

[Guest inoubliable]

I see marriage and divorce as business arrangements. If a partnership isn't working out for whatever reason, you dissolve it and work out damages. I have nothing against divorces. 
I twitch a little when I hear that so-and-so got married because their religion said they had to. 

No one can say what they will or won't do until they're in a position to make that call. And while I understand people have opinions about what others do in their partnerships (legally sanctioned by the government or not, holy in the eyes of their religion or not), I don't think it's anyone's place to voice them. 

[elegantlion]

I'm separated, not likely to reconcile. Reasons are too personal to address, yet I agree with your statement that you really don't know what you'd do in a situation until you're in it. 

 

Most of the divorces I've seen have not just been one big thing, but an ongoing issue of little things where one final act crosses the already blurred boundary. 

[mommaduck]

Abuse, addiction, and adultery.

 

Addiction, it would depend upon what kind and if we could work through it to recovery.

 

Adultery, again, I can't honestly say what I would do. Repetitive adultery, definitely would be done for.

 

My mother and her husband survived his repetitive adultery, but I think she just quit giving a damn and started actually living her life outside of him. She dropped my father (her first husband) at the drop of a hat over it though (and honestly, he's a repeat offender also).

[sbgrace]

I, like others, think people really can't anticipate how they will react to x or y until faced with it. Those people probably would be even more hesitant to give a black/white will/won't kind of answer to those questions. Real life doesn't work like that. I'm committed to marriage and think divorce is harmful to kids. That said, other things could also harm (in a different way), and an individual person doesn't always have a choice is the matter. It only takes one person to leave or do so much harm there is really no choice otherwise...and people can change.

 

Most divorces I've known aren't amicable--at least they become contentious at some point. Some I know worked through that though.

 

 

[creekland]

All I can say (after talking to a high school senior, whose parents are in the process of getting a divorce, earlier today) is to TRY YOUR DARNDEST to be amicable and NEVER TELL YOUR SON YOU DON'T WANT HIM ANYMORE as part of the ugly process.

 

Personally, I have no plans to ever get a divorce and I knew that going into my marriage.  My parents got divorced and I hold nothing against my mom.  My step mom also later divorced my dad (catching a pattern here)?

[Dahliarw]

I know a couple of people with amicable divorces, but many more where it is not.  No two situations are the same.

 

As for me, my personal beliefs are that God hates divorce.  But, I do find Biblical exceptions for Adultery and I would make an exception for abuse  (especially physical, but also emotional if the person was not willing to realize what they are doing and get counseling, etc to change and stop).  

 

That being said, I know couples where one has cheated on the other, was truly sorry, and they've reconciled and now have great marriages (but it took a lot of work).  So even if my dh were to cheat on me, I can't say for sure what I would do.  It would very much depend on the situation.

 

For us, smaller things are not reason for us to get a divorce.  It's a reason to work through things, go to counseling, etc.  Fortunately we've been able to work through any issues we've encountered so far.  That does not mean I've always been happy in my marriage, everyone has their rough patches.

[PeacefulChaos]

I see marriage and divorce as business arrangements. If a partnership isn't working out for whatever reason, you dissolve it and work out damages. I have nothing against divorces. 

I twitch a little when I hear that so-and-so got married because their religion said they had to. 

No one can say what they will or won't do until they're in a position to make that call. And while I understand people have opinions about what others do in their partnerships (legally sanctioned by the government or not, holy in the eyes of their religion or not), I don't think it's anyone's place to voice them. 

Oh, I hope that isn't how I'm coming across!!  I'm not thinking about other people, either, or asking others to. 

Just curious about the topic in general. 

[Dory]

I think that so long as there are two people willing to work on things, there is very little that isn't workable. In abusive situations, I would hope that the person would have enough sense to leave the situation with the kids until the other person was willing to get help and honestly work on things.

I have a friend who cheated on her husband. It floored me. She was honestly sorry about what had happened and they worked pretty hard on things. Their marriage is fairly healthy now although it's been a few years. If someone is repeatedly doing something though, or isn't willing to work on things, it's time to walk away from it. Even the Bible gives reasons for divorce.

 

I have never understood the 'we have had sex, therefore we must now get married' mindset. Adding a second mistake onto a first won't make things better. In my mind it would be better to repent for the sin you did. Work on your relationship with God and keep going on with life (this is just my view, I'm not saying anyone else is horrible if there view is different from mine). If my kids want to have sex, I will be encouraging them to wait for marriage, but it doesn't mean that I'll push them into marriage if they slip up. I will be telling them, that if they wouldn't think of spending the rest of lives with that person, then he/she isn't worth giving them something that special.

 

When I was first married, divorce was never an option in my mind. It was always considered something horrible in my family growing up (although I wish my parents had been divorced sometimes). Now as an adult, it isn't something that I would cross off my options list. It's there. It's way down the list of options, but it's there. I know divorce can be super hard on kids, but I know an unhealthy marriage can be just as equally hard on the kids. 

[gardenmom5]

while I think divorce is bad - I think there are some circumstances where it is, unfortunately, the only viable option.

I think waiting for sex (and things leading to it) for marriage is what should be happening.  I also think getting married to have sex is an indicator the two people are too immature to get married - and is more likely to end in divorce.

I don't know any amicable divorces - though some are far nastier than others.

[bolt.]

I think that divorce is very serious, very tragic, and very very personal.

 

I'm not willing to tackle it at the theoretical level of which reasons I will/won't consider legitimate. It can't be set out like a policy or flow chart of if/then-s.

 

For myself I will decide if my situation ever warrants divorce with a great deal of prayer, a great deal of logic, and hopefully many good advisors.

 

For other's, as a bystander, I just assume that they didn't take the decision lightly, therefore they most likely made (or are likely to make) a legitimate and defensible decision. I refrain from any other assumptions.

 

If I were ever in an inner circle, I would hope to be a wise, logical and prayerful advisor -- taking the details of the actual situation into account, not applying a pre-set personal policy, as if these things are one-size-fits-all.

[Melissa in Australia]

For me the absolute straight away divorce would be child sexual abuse. For everything else I would be willing to try and work through it.

[NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too]

Most of the divorces I've seen have not just been one big thing, but an ongoing issue of little things where one final act crosses the already blurred boundary.

 

Yes, sometimes its not any of the A's (Adultery, Addition or Abuse), but an ongoing issue. I don't begrudge or judge anyone who leaves an emotionally-barren relationship, regardless of the length of the marriage.

 

I am reminded of this article, "Walkaway Wives' Hit the Point of No Return" from the LA Times.

 

http://articles.latimes.com/2001/oct/08/news/cl-54637

[Murphy101]

As a catholic in a valid marriage, divorce would be a rather desperate last resort to protect my kids LEGALLY. Religiously, I doubt I'd ever not be considered married. Thus, I'd be legally divorced, but consider myself married and permanently separated.

 

He'd have to be a danger to my kids for me to go that route. I think anyways. Pray to God he never tests my theory!

[Guest]

Well, based on some shocking situations I've seen recently, it's clear that people can change/situations can change/beliefs can change in ways the original marrying pair would never have imagined in their worst nightmare. I'm still married - in fact, our anniversary is tomorrow - but I no longer believe so much in the institution of marriage. Of course, it does get sticky when you have children, because then you have a joint commitment to those small people at least until they are independent, which could be until more than half your life is over anyway. If I found myself without a husband sooner rather than later (for whatever reason), I very much doubt I would consider remarriage. 

 

I've come to think it's pretty rare to be married for, say, more than 15 years and still be thrilled to be married/married to this person. I'm assuming that the bell-curve of marriage has a small amount thrilled, a small amount that finds it unbearable and soon divorces and a wide, main segment that is moderately happy often enough that it wouldn't be worth it to scrap the venture for the many drawbacks they've found. 

 

Sorry that's such a pessimistic assessment on the eve of my 19th anniversary.  :tongue_smilie:

[Parrothead]

Yeah, what Martha said. It would have to be pretty bad.

[Murphy101]

I've been married 20 years. I'm absolutely crazy ridiculously thrilled to be married to him. Way more than the day I married him. I think people think that looks more romantic than it usually is.

[Dory]

Well, based on some shocking situations I've seen recently, it's clear that people can change/situations can change/beliefs can change in ways the original marrying pair would never have imagined in their worst nightmare. I'm still married - in fact, our anniversary is tomorrow - but I no longer believe so much in the institution of marriage. Of course, it does get sticky when you have children, because then you have a joint commitment to those small people at least until they are independent, which could be until more than half your life is over anyway. If I found myself without a husband sooner rather than later (for whatever reason), I very much doubt I would consider remarriage. 

 

I've come to think it's pretty rare to be married for, say, more than 15 years and still be thrilled to be married/married to this person. I'm assuming that the bell-curve of marriage has a small amount thrilled, a small amount that finds it unbearable and soon divorces and a wide, main segment that is moderately happy often enough that it wouldn't be worth it to scrap the venture for the many drawbacks they've found. 

 

Sorry that's such a pessimistic assessment on the eve of my 19th anniversary.  :tongue_smilie:

 

I rode for numerous hours in a combine last Friday with a woman that had just celebrated her 35 wedding anniversary. She is honestly still thrilled to be married to the man. Not giddy newly married type of thrilled, something a little deeper than that. She is open and honest about the struggles they've had. They didn't get to this spot simply because they love each other so much, but she is honestly happy and loves the man she is married to.

[FaithManor]

I think that divorce is very serious, very tragic, and very very personal.

 

I'm not willing to tackle it at the theoretical level of which reasons I will/won't consider legitimate. It can't be set out like a policy or flow chart of if/then-s.

 

For myself I will decide if my situation ever warrants divorce with a great deal of prayer, a great deal of logic, and hopefully many good advisors.

 

For other's, as a bystander, I just assume that they didn't take the decision lightly, therefore they most likely made (or are likely to make) a legitimate and defensible decision. I refrain from any other assumptions.

 

If I were ever in an inner circle, I would hope to be a wise, logical and prayerful advisor -- taking the details of the actual situation into account, not applying a pre-set personal policy, as if these things are one-size-fits-all.

This is exactly how I feel about it.

 

My sister's Army Lieutenant husband came back from deployment with severe PTSD such that he became psychotic. Despite diagnosis and counseling, he would NOT believe that he was the problem and remain on his meds, keep appointments with his psychiatrist, nor continue his group therapy (which was really working well for a while during the time he was faithfully taking his meds), etc. Eventually, we became concerned that he would kill her during one of his flashback/delusional moments. She had to leave behind two step-daughters that she cared very deeply about - he was a widower when she met him - Kentucky courts would not consider her the psychological parent of the girls because they had only been married three years. She was devastated and to this day feels guilty for leaving. However, it would not have done the girls a bit of good for her to be dead and their father sitting in prison on murder charges. As it is, once she was gone his veneer of "normalcy" that he tried to maintain for the public eye fell apart and social services placed the girls with their grandparents who are doing a good job of finishing raising them. My sister's marriage fell apart literally from mental illness, and that's not something she would have - going into marriage - ever thought would be a good reason for divorce. It opened my eyes to the fact that it's easy on this side of the equation to say "I would never ____". Walk a mile in another person's shoes and the view is very, very different.

 

I am committed to being supportive of my divorced friends because they've been through a lot of pain, and I doubt they came to the decision to separate lightly at all. Certainly, my sister's experience has left me with a better understanding of what it means to have some decisions made for you by the other person regardless of your previous beliefs on the subject. The saddest part of all is that I don't think my ex-bil was fully responsible for his actions, yet there was nothing that could be done to stop that train wreck from happening.

 

ETA: Dh and I celebrated our 25th wedding anniversary this year one week after our DD married. He is my best friend. I'd rather be with him most of the time than anyone else, and I am MORE than willing to admit that in this day and age, that's fairly rare. Statistically, we are likely outliers.

 

Faith

[Annie G]

I've been married 20 years. I'm absolutely crazy ridiculously thrilled to be married to him. Way more than the day I married him. I think people think that looks more romantic than it usually is.

 

 

Same here. Happier than ever, and every year it seems to just get better, especially now that the difficult 'having young kids and being constantly exhausted' years are long past.   And we know heartbreak- we both had a four year first marriage that ended due to spouses being unfaithful. We knew each other way back when and it was awful being married to someone who cheated repeatedly.   We've worked hard to make this marriage strong and lasting. 

[AlmiraGulch]

My first marriage ended in divorce after nearly 11 years.  My biggest mistake was not doing it after year 1.  Honestly.  I knew then it was doomed but I thought that if I just stuck with the "divorce is not an option" mantra that everything would work itself out.   My divorce was not a result of one of the "Big Three A's", either.  It was just a bad, bad deal all around. 

 

I believed I would never marry again, but I finally decided to anyway. Now, I approach it much differently than before.  I believe we only get this one life, and if someone is making another miserable for much of it, then they should go their separate ways.   Not as a first option, of course, but it's definitely on the table, so both my husband and I better remember that if we want to stay together.  We better always do our best to honor and support and actively love one another.  I've never been so lonely in my life as I was during most of my first marriage, and I flat out refuse to ever allow myself to be that way again.  If that's how I feel with my husband, or he with me, and we give it our best effort, and it just isn't working, we'll be done.  And I absolutely guarantee it wouldn't take 10+ years the second time around.

 

 

[creekland]

I've come to think it's pretty rare to be married for, say, more than 15 years and still be thrilled to be married/married to this person.

Whether it is rare or not, I feel extremely blessed to be part of the group who has been married this long and still thrilled to be with my guy.  We've had 25 years together and are enjoying talking about our future together... as well as still enjoying being with each other on an everyday basis.   There is absolutely no one else I would rather be married to, nor would I rather be alone or just with friends. 

[Guest]

I've been married 20 years. I'm absolutely crazy ridiculously thrilled to be married to him. Way more than the day I married him. I think people think that looks more romantic than it usually is.

 

I believe such people exist. I do think it's a small minority. 

 

I don't think it has to look romantic - whatever that even would look like. I just think the number of individuals who are keen to invest in their love, with a deep regard for this person (after a long time) is somewhat small, not to mention how rarely those individuals are married to another such person. I think more marriages that continue for decades do so because it makes more sense than parting. They may not be super-happy a lot of the time, but they're happier than they would be if they had to move out of their house, share kids between two locations, figure out who keeps the dog and pay a divorce lawyer to work out all those headaches. So they stay. 

[gardenmom5]

Married 31 years. we've had our ups and downs - that's life, and it cultivates a far deeper relationship. we are perfect for each other.  I know quite a few married as long or longer than us - and they are perfect for each other.

[creekland]

I think more marriages that continue for decades do so because it makes more sense than parting. They may not be super-happy a lot of the time, but they're happier than they would be if they had to move out of their house, share kids between two locations, figure out who keeps the dog and pay a divorce lawyer to work out all those headaches. So they stay. 

 

I have to say out of all the couples I know, both married and divorced, I don't know of any in the situation you describe... those who are together are generally happy.  Those who aren't tend to split either with or without working on it.  I don't know of anyone who is together due to the "convenience" of not getting a divorce.

 

[Guest]

 

Certainly, my sister's experience has left me with a better understanding of what it means to have some decisions made for you by the other person regardless of your previous beliefs on the subject. The saddest part of all is that I don't think my ex-bil was fully responsible for his actions, yet there was nothing that could be done to stop that train wreck from happening.

 

This is at the heart of my thoughts as well. You can love this person like you love your next breath, but the behavior of another is out of your hands. (Not any particular "you" meant here.) I have also seen how illness (mental and physical) can change a person for the worse and make the marriage no longer possible. 

[Guest]

I have to say out of all the couples I know, both married and divorced, I don't know of any in the situation you describe... those who are together are generally happy.  Those who aren't tend to split either with or without working on it.  I don't know of anyone who is together due to the "convenience" of not getting a divorce.

 

 

It is possible that many of the couples you think are not in this situation are. 

[Renee in NC]

My first marriage ended in divorce after nearly 11 years.  My biggest mistake was doing it after year 1.  Honestly.  I knew then it was doomed but I thought that if I just stuck with the "divorce is not an option" mantra that everything would work itself out.   My divorce was not a result of one of the "Big Three A's", either.  It was just a bad, bad deal all around. 

 

I believed I would never marry again, but I finally decided to anyway. Now, I approach it much differently than before.  I believe we only get this one life, and if someone is making another miserable for much of it, then they should go their separate ways.   Not as a first option, of course, but it's definitely on the table, so both my husband and I better remember that if we want to stay together.  We better always do our best to honor and support and actively love one another.  I've never been so lonely in my life as I was during most of my first marriage, and I flat out refuse to ever allow myself to be that way again.  If that's how I feel with my husband, or he with me, and we give it our best effort, and it just isn't working, we'll be done.  And I absolutely guarantee it wouldn't take 10+ years the second time around.

 

This really spoke to me.  Thank you.

[mytwomonkeys]

I'm definitely not in favor of my husband and I divorcing ever. But if he starts using drugs... Or abusing me... Or cheating... Well, that could certainly change things. I would have to be in a situation to know my response of course. Those scenarios are not on my radar in any form though and would be really out of character. My husband and I are in our 40's and happily married - so if one of us started getting high on drugs or cheating (or fill in the blank) - it would be weirdly shocking. It's hard to imagine.

[creekland]

It is possible that many of the couples you think are not in this situation are. 

 

Possible, but doubtful.  In our circles (workplace, neighbors, church - all different couples)  we tend to share a lot - good, bad, and ugly.  I was only considering couples I know rather well - not people I only know as acquaintances (since I'd have no "inside" knowledge there).

[gardenmom5]

It is possible that many of the couples you think are not in this situation are. 

I'm sorry you had a bad experience, and are now cynical.  that does NOT mean other people are, or that there aren't many couples (I can think of a few dozen off the top of my head) who've been married for a long time and have happy, and healthy, marriages.

it's also possible couples *you* think are not happy - are.

[creekland]

My first marriage ended in divorce after nearly 11 years.  My biggest mistake was doing it after year 1.  Honestly.  I knew then it was doomed but I thought that if I just stuck with the "divorce is not an option" mantra that everything would work itself out.   My divorce was not a result of one of the "Big Three A's", either.  It was just a bad, bad deal all around. 

My mom should have gotten divorced earlier than she did.  I give her credit for trying.  None of the three As were involved, but the big M was (Mental/controlling issues).

[NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too]

I have to say out of all the couples I know, both married and divorced, I don't know of any in the situation you describe... those who are together are generally happy.  Those who aren't tend to split either with or without working on it.  I don't know of anyone who is together due to the "convenience" of not getting a divorce.

 

 

I know of at least three women that would divorce, but they don't want their childrens' lives disrupted. Two of the three have experienced their own parents' divorcing and the emotional and financial fall-out.  All have been married over 20 years.

 

They don't broadcast their marital issues.  From the outside, they look happy.

[Joanne]

I know a couple of people with amicable divorces, but many more where it is not.  No two situations are the same.

 

As for me, my personal beliefs are that God hates divorce.

 

Writing from when I was a Christian (and admitting that this topic was a huge part of the reason I left Christianity):

 

I don't  believe that God hates the paper the signifies divorce. I believe that, if God hates anything, he hates relationships in which persons live miserably together. That IS the divore God hates.

My "divorce" happened long before the rubber stamp from the judge.

 

God hates the relationship that makes *divorce* happen. I can't accept, and won't accept, that "God hates divorce". That and the "divorce is not an option" thinking killed the quality of my life and my soul for years.

[FaithManor]

I believe such people exist. I do think it's a small minority. 

 

I don't think it has to look romantic - whatever that even would look like. I just think the number of individuals who are keen to invest in their love, with a deep regard for this person (after a long time) is somewhat small, not to mention how rarely those individuals are married to another such person. I think more marriages that continue for decades do so because it makes more sense than parting. They may not be super-happy a lot of the time, but they're happier than they would be if they had to move out of their house, share kids between two locations, figure out who keeps the dog and pay a divorce lawyer to work out all those headaches. So they stay. 

I understand what you are saying. My inlaws stayed together because it was more comfortable than parting, and they thought it was better for the teenagers. I don't know about that. The two eldest came away with a very skewed idea of what a mature relationship ought to entail. Both of them are fairly miserable, and some of it seems to be attributable to their parents staying together. Dh managed to come through fairly unscathed.

 

Then again, there is no predicting what it would have been like if they had separated.

 

I do think you are right that it is becoming more rare for two people who do care that much about the emotional well being of the other and possessing the willingness to put in the effort to invest in the other person to actually end up together. Most of my friends are content to put up with their circumstances because their marriages are not bad enough to be worth upending their lives. But, there isn't any close relationship left with their spouse. They are not necessarily miserable, yet certainly there is some regret in choosing the person they hitched their wagon to and had kids with. Some, I suppose, are miserable and not letting on to others.

 

I think my generation began questioning the idea of marriage as a cultural expectation and business arrangement and began wanting something more from it. Previous generations were probably more prone to taking a rather pragmatic approach and did not look to marriage to provide more than a stable environment to raise the culturally expected children who were also the retirement plan,  to create financial stability, and to maintain religious or cultural beliefs. Love, friendship, companionship, intimacy, sharing, even fidelity especially male fidelity...I'm not certain those were the big considerations that they are now because those would have been luxuries and impractical considerations for most.

 

Faith

[creekland]

I know of at least three women that would divorce, but they don't want their childrens' lives disrupted. Two of the three have experienced their own parents' divorcing and the emotional and financial fall-out.  All have been married over 20 years.

 

They don't broadcast their marital issues.  From the outside, they look happy.

 

You're close enough to these women to know the real story.  That's how I feel about those in my inner circles.  ;)  As I mentioned, we tend to share the good, the bad, and the ugly.  When a divorce happens, it sure doesn't take those in the inner circle by surprise.

 

Outside that circle, I'm sure there are all types out there, but there are quite a few couples or parts of couples inside that inner circle.

 

[Rosie_0801]

I suppose ultimately I'm divorced because I was developing character flaws I had never had before. I couldn't control the reaction any more and I couldn't control the behaviour I was reacting to. I was not put on this earth to become a poorer quality person than I started out as.

 

Ex and I are usually quite civilised. The kids are barely worse off in some ways and much better off in others. 

 

 

Why do people in general divorce? Irreconcilable differences. It is always due to irreconcilable differences, lol.

[AimeeM]

Tony:

Dealbreakers - none. Divorce isn't an option. I was married once before (no children from that marriage) and I didn't want that marriage to end, but I had no choice as she wanted a divorce. I had planned to work on the marriage. Again, for this marriage, divorce isn't an option. Marriage is a lifelong commitment and both partners should be willing to do what is necessary to make it work.

 

Aimee:

Same as my husband. Divorce isn't an option. Period. I guess. Maybe for a continous cycle of abuse?

[Robin M]

Interesting:  My parents have been very happily married for 60 years this month.  My hubby's parents divorced when he was a teenager because of adultery.   To me marriage is a forever thing. There are only two things that would cause me to get a divorce - adultery or abuse. This was abundantly clear to hubby before we married.  We had many heartfelt discussions before we decided to get married.  Both of us felt the same way - divorce wasn't an option so we better be sure before we do.  We've been together 21 years now, married 16 of those year and still thrilled every day with each other.  Yes, it is work. We don't always see eye to eye, but we work through things.  Married takes work and if the two parties aren't willing to put that work into each other, then they shouldn't get married.  It isn't something to go into lightly. The attitude let's try and see if it works and if it doesn't, then we'll get divorce, is just selfish to me.  Particularly if there are kids involved.   But that's just me.  Everyone's situation is different and far be it for me to judge anyone. 

 

It's natural for people to grown and change.  Just because one doesn't feel wildly passionately in love with their significant other doesn't mean the love is gone. There is passion and then there is comfort.  I've seen folks get divorced because the passion is gone and that's all they are looking for. It's unfortunate when two people who know each other so well and are comfortable with each other, mistake the lack of passion for lack of love. 

[LMV]

I agree that it is very difficult to know what you would really do in a situation until you are actually in it.  In general I think that abuse and unwilling or unable to address addiction or other biological brain disorders would necessitate that I remove myself and any minor children from the situation for safety reasons.  I don't want to think that I would second guess that decision in any way but fortunately I've never been in such a situation so I suppose I really don't know.

 

I will also add that grief can really be a game changer.  After our daughter died my husband and I truly struggled for a number of years.  It took us a long time to be able to grieve together and rebuild our marriage.  During part of this time we maintained two separate households.  This was partly out of necessity as I was doing medical training but the situation underneath was much messier.  Honestly, if our state laws were different, we might have actually completed the paperwork to divorce.  We didn't and now that we have worked through all of this I truly do believe we can and will survive anything.  Even when we were struggling there was still love and much mutual care and concern, but it was also just so hard sometimes.  We really needed the space and I think if situations had been slightly different, or if we hadn't shared other surviving children that we both realized needed us both, we likely would have legally dissolved our marriage.  [We're from a state which frowns on joint legal custody which was the sticking point or saving grace there.]

[Guest]

I'm sorry you had a bad experience, and are now cynical.  that does NOT mean other people are, or that there aren't many couples (I can think of a few dozen off the top of my head) who've been married for a long time and have happy, and healthy, marriages.

it's also possible couples *you* think are not happy - are.

 

It is quite possible, of course. No one really knows what is in the hearts and minds of every couple they know, jointly and independently. 

 

That is the point I'm making. No one really knows. In one day recently, I was told independently by two unrelated women that their marriages are in this category I describe. They aren't women with whom I'm especially close, but the topic was at hand in both cases and this is what they said. Every separation I've learned of in the last several years has surprised me. In every case, I believed the couple was great, fine, happy, committed, and so on. 

 

I used to believe in the institution of marriage and all the holy/sacramental aspects that go with it, but I don't so much anymore. I now think lasting marriages are a combination of a) luck (nobody goes nutsy); B) mutual decision; and c) practical thinking. You can get a long way just by deciding to, if your mate decides to as well. 

 

ETA: Ooooh, weird. I wasn't trying to put in sunglasses smiley! That was supposed to be "b". 

[Dory]

I have to say out of all the couples I know, both married and divorced, I don't know of any in the situation you describe... those who are together are generally happy.  Those who aren't tend to split either with or without working on it.  I don't know of anyone who is together due to the "convenience" of not getting a divorce.

 

 

You might not know of anyone, but perhaps it's just because they don't advertise it. I think sometimes, in these scenarios, it's not talked about because talking about it will just make it harder to live with what they've chosen to live with. It's a hard decision to make, that decision to stay because leaving is too hard and too hard on the kids. I know people who basically have stayed together thus far due to convenience I suppose.

[Rosie_0801]

I don't think anyone feels good when their spouse tells them they know they are unhappy, they understand what needs to be done, they could do it, but no, they are not going to. It adds insult to injury when they say yes, they expect you to put up with it forever.

 

There's no negotiation to be done there.

[HRAAB]

Of close family and friends I know that are divorced, there's only one that I would call amicable.  I've seen much bitterness and suffering children.  I do think those divorces could have been amicable and much easier on the children if the adults had acted like adults, but that wasn't the case.  

 

I've weathered a time with dh that before marriage I would probably have said would have been a deal breaker, but it wasn't.  We came out on the other side with a good, solid marriage  It's been 28 years now, and I am truly crazy in love with that man.  We're even more affectionate and romantic now that we were earlier.  Maybe we appreciate each other more or maybe it's because the kids are older and I get to sleep all night.  In any event, I am so thankful that I stayed the course with him.  And I admit a good part of the reason we stayed together during the bad time was due to religion and our children.  I'm actually very thankful for that.  I've got a good man.

[Joker]

I feel marriage is forever, but that's because I'm married to my dh. He is my family. He feels the same way. I will also say that we've been married almost 16 years now and I feel absolutely giddy to still be with him.

 

 

[Jenny in Florida]

I have to say out of all the couples I know, both married and divorced, I don't know of any in the situation you describe... those who are together are generally happy.  Those who aren't tend to split either with or without working on it.  I don't know of anyone who is together due to the "convenience" of not getting a divorce.

 

 

I suspect you do know some who are in that exact situation, but you don't know that's how they feel.

[Jenny in Florida]

 

They don't broadcast their marital issues.  From the outside, they look happy.

 

Exactly.

[DawnM]

I am not the romantic type.  I am just not.  I am a realist.  I don't do Santa or the Easter Bunny, not really because of religious reasons as much as I just don't like the idea of some fantasy creature entering my home.    :laugh:

 

But I know I married the right person.  I don't look at him everyday and sigh heavily while telling myself how lucky I am to be with him or anything, but there is just a complete assurance and peace that I would never have to worry about him cheating or abusing or being a bad father......it is just part of who he is.  He does the right thing.  He always has.  

 

I enjoy being with him (ok, unless he is watching the golf channel!)  

 

We have been married a bit over 18 years.  

 

 

I've been married 20 years. I'm absolutely crazy ridiculously thrilled to be married to him. Way more than the day I married him. I think people think that looks more romantic than it usually is.

 

[Murphy101]

I know lots of unhappy couples. Mostly actually. I think some of them are almost... Idk... Content with it that way.

 

They blame their spouse frequently, but much as I love them, it's not their spouses job to make them happy.

 

And I've known exactly one person happier and or better off divorced, so it's not like getting divorced makes people happy either.

 

(One person was married to a royal ____. So awful that in a no fault state, without kids, less than a 5 year marriage, HE got alimony from her! Lol)