Judge much? Vent

[TranquilMind]

I had lunch with a friend and her friend, who is merely an acquaintance to me, all of us Christians.  Our kids all engage in a certain class together.

Anyway, my oldest, who has already traveled to other continents on school trips, and plans to work internationally, if possible, has become excited about applying to some universities overseas.

 

So...I'm helping to do the research.  What else can you do for a kid you KNOW will live around the world someday.

 

Here's my vent, and it isn't the first time that this has reared its head - and I know some of you can relate:

 

Acquaintance mentions which colleges her daughter is looking at, and I just conversationally mention that college is so darn expensive today, but in the course of researching, I discovered it was much cheaper in almost all other countries.  Acquaintance begins telling me that kids leave the faith as soon as they go to college 68% of the time (or some figure like that) and I should not want my kid to go to Europe because his faith might be lost.  My kid should only go to a Christian college, whether or not that college can provide what is necessary for later employment. 

 

???   So, I replied that I don't believe that location is the determining factor in whether one loses faith or not, that it is internal, and that it is modeled in the family.  I said that we train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old, he will not depart from it.  That there were no promises that he or she wouldn't go through a period of seeking.  Gee, my husband and I both went through some trying times, and we've been married a quarter of a century, quite happily, faithful, in the faith....all that.  I told her some of the stuff I did as a teen, and the Lord still protected me from myself and kept me going. 

 

I've known kids who are 100% of the time supervised by Mom and Dad growing up, who still go haywire in early adulthood, and kids who stayed true to their beliefs.  I've also known kids who were raised in atheism who are serious Christians today (like some relatives of mine, actually) as young people and others who stayed true to those beliefs. 

 

The irony of the whole thing is that my friend, who remained pretty quiet, has never put her kids in school at all, and only had them in Christian environments at all times, and has still dealt with some pretty big issues with one of them. 

 

We went to church with a family of 12 homeschooled, perfect kids.  They WERE great kids and still are.  They were never allowed to go into any non-Christian environment.  They could only socialize in the presence of Mom and Dad.    Still, a couple of them got pregnant without getting married first, and one is divorced already. 

 

THERE IS NO FORMULA!   You do the best you can, and you will still make mistakes (and I sure did!) and then you just pray that God works it all out, because YOU CAN'T CONTROL THEM when they are young adults!  You have to keep the relationship rather than only the rules!

Thanks.  I just wanted to get that off my chest!  ;)   

 

 

[myfunnybunch]

Some people think they have all of the answers, don't they?

 

I deal with one of them in my own life. If only I parented like her, my kids would be perfect too.....

 

You're lucky your eyes didn't roll so far back into your head that they got stuck there.

 

Cat

[TranquilMind]

Some people think they have all of the answers, don't they?

 

I deal with one of them in my own life. If only I parented like her, my kids would be perfect too.....

 

You're lucky your eyes didn't roll so far back into your head that they got stuck there.

 

Cat

What I really wanted to ask is how she explained how the three of us turned out the way we did - all Conservative, Christian, stable, married Moms - while having three very disparate, not always Holy upbringings!

[mommaduck]

I agree. There is no magic formula. You do the best you can and the rest is between them and God.

[Catwoman]

Doesn't your friend realize that there are bad influences at Christian colleges, or does she seriously believe that all of the kids at Christian colleges are sitting around praying all the time?

 

There will always be both good and bad influences no matter where our kids travel in their lives. All we can do is try to raise them as best we can, and hope that they are sensible enough to make good decisions and avoid any major troubles.

[TranquilMind]

Doesn't your friend realize that there are bad influences at Christian colleges, or does she seriously believe that all of the kids at Christian colleges are sitting around praying all the time?

 

There will always be both good and bad influences no matter where our kids travel in their lives. All we can do is try to raise them as best we can, and hope that they are sensible enough to avoid any major troubles.

Hey, I read that book by the Brown student who moved to Liberty for one semester.

 

NO, they didn't sit around praying all the time, though that did happen.  He liked it for its substance-free environment though, but said the guys talked about sex as much as anywhere else. 

[Tiberia]

I think you handled it well. I think her words are more of a glimpse into her fears than a judgment of you. She probably really fears this happening to her kids and is transferring it to every situation she comes up against, in order to keep some level of control. Unfortunately (or fortunately), we don't have that level of control over our kids once they get a little older. Just live your life and don't take her words personally. If she's willing to talk, go for it. If she just judges, pass the bean dip.

[mirth]

Acquaintance begins telling me that kids leave the faith as soon as they go to college 68% of the time (or some figure like that) and I should not want my kid to go to Europe because his faith might be lost.  My kid should only go to a Christian college, whether or not that college can provide what is necessary for later employment. 

 

Has she never heard of Martin Luther?  By Christian, I am guessing she means Protestant.  Oh dear, what an indigestible lunch.

[Woodhaven]

You are right, there are no guarantees. We do the best we can as parents. We walk with God and spend time with him, developing our own relationship with him, and pray for our children. But they must make their own decisions.

 

It is very hard, knowing we can't just do X, Y, and Z and ensure a certain result. But that is the reality, as I understand it.

 

Be gentle with your acquaintance. I suspect that one day she will realize she has been wrong and it will be quite a shock - an unpleasant shock.

[Mrs Mungo]

This is the same phenomenon we see when the news articles come across this site that a small child died in a pond and people have fights over ponds or lack thereof, swimming lessons or lack thereof, etc. 

 

Since my sister passed away in April, I've heard a lot of the same sort of armchair quarterbacking from certain members of my family. 

 

People want to THINK they control a lot of things in life that you CAN'T. Let them have their comfort, do what is right for your family and move along. There is no arguing with those types of people.

 

 

[idnib]

I'm not Christian, but...

 

I am the child of Muslim immigrants who have many friends who are also Muslim immigrants to the U.S. For them living in the U.S. has been a challenge, whether it was the 1970s and they had seen no other Muslims for a decade, or whether it was 2001 and people were being shot for being Muslim or even looking different (Sikh, Hindu, etc).

 

Even in this isolating and sometimes antagonistic environment that have retained their faith and worship. Coming to a new country that was much less religious than their original country didn't cause them, nor their friends, to leave their faith.

 

Immigrants go to new countries and keep their faith all the time. Just look around the U.S.!

[PrairieSong]

Oh my. I totally relate. Two homeschooling friends of mine were very watchful and controlling. Both of these families had to deal with issues in their kids that they had worked SO HARD to keep away. It backfired on them. Their strict rules and over the top control didn't work. At all. One mom eased up. The other has the same extreme views she always had but her kids are grown now.

[J-rap]

You are absolutely right. There is no formula, but I think your best bet is what goes on at home within the family, which then becomes the foundation within the person wherever they go. Christianity is not about a set of rules.

 

For what it's worth, my children have all traveled and spent a lot of time internationally as well. My one daughter is currently attending a secular university in Central America, and my son chose to ride his bike alone across Europe the year following high school. Another daughter lived in Senegal for a half year and Northern Ireland for a half year, both through secular programs.

 

They are all strong young adults who remain true to their faith.

 

Don't listen to your friend.

[SunnyDays]

Doesn't your friend realize that there are bad influences at Christian colleges, or does she seriously believe that all of the kids at Christian colleges are sitting around praying all the time?

 

There will always be both good and bad influences no matter where our kids travel in their lives. All we can do is try to raise them as best we can, and hope that they are sensible enough to make good decisions and avoid any major troubles.

This, exactly. I went to a Christian LAC. While the atmosphere was pretty mild overall, there was certainly trouble to be found if you wanted it!

 

That is frustrating. You're right, there is no formula. So many factors play in, and our children have to, at some point, make their own decisions and forge their own path. We point them in the right direction and hope for the best.

[Dandelion]

Two homeschooling friends of mine were very watchful and controlling. Both of these families had to deal with issues in their kids that they had worked SO HARD to keep away. It backfired on them. Their strict rules and over the top control didn't work. At all. 

 

Reminds me of the saying "What you resist persists."  In other words, the harder you fight something, the more likely it is to happen.

 

Your friend is in for a rude awakening.  

[TranquilMind]

I think you handled it well. I think her words are more of a glimpse into her fears than a judgment of you. She probably really fears this happening to her kids and is transferring it to every situation she comes up against, in order to keep some level of control. Unfortunately (or fortunately), we don't have that level of control over our kids once they get a little older. Just live your life and don't take her words personally. If she's willing to talk, go for it. If she just judges, pass the bean dip.

Thanks, and I know you are probably right.

 

It was just so unexpected, that it caught me off guard.  Normally, when you tell someone that your wannabe polyglot child is looking at universities internationally, people have discussions about travel, or the differences in international universities, or about the cost, or about the different cultures.

I just didn't expect to be warned that my kid will probably lose her faith unless the kid remains "safely" here in the states in a Christian school.   I'm not seeing that the states are any beacon of holiness lately, frankly.

[TranquilMind]

Has she never heard of Martin Luther?  By Christian, I am guessing she means Protestant.  Oh dear, what an indigestible lunch.

Yes, I am quite sure this one did mean "protestant" (or as I call it, "noncatholic") by her comments. 

[TranquilMind]

You are right, there are no guarantees. We do the best we can as parents. We walk with God and spend time with him, developing our own relationship with him, and pray for our children. But they must make their own decisions.

 

It is very hard, knowing we can't just do X, Y, and Z and ensure a certain result. But that is the reality, as I understand it.

 

Be gentle with your acquaintance. I suspect that one day she will realize she has been wrong and it will be quite a shock - an unpleasant shock.

Well, I probably won't see the acquaintance a lot, but believe me, I got my guts kicked in a couple of years ago, and I do indeed realize that we are ALL in for a shock of one kind or another, no matter how hard we try to do the "right" things. 

 

I wish there WERE a formula.  That would be easier.

 

[Pretty in Pink]

People want to THINK they control a lot of things in life that you CAN'T. Let them have their comfort, do what is right for your family and move along. There is no arguing with those types of people.

I was going to say something along these lines but Mungo beat me to it. <3

[TranquilMind]

This is the same phenomenon we see when the news articles come across this site that a small child died in a pond and people have fights over ponds or lack thereof, swimming lessons or lack thereof, etc. 

 

Since my sister passed away in April, I've heard a lot of the same sort of armchair quarterbacking from certain members of my family. 

 

People want to THINK they control a lot of things in life that you CAN'T. Let them have their comfort, do what is right for your family and move along. There is no arguing with those types of people.

I'm sorry about your sister.  Having lost two siblings myself, I know that those are the ONLY people who remember your childhood with you, and it's hard when they are gone.  So sorry.

I WANT to control everything though.  Arrgh. 

 

I didn't argue, but I did feel a little reprimanded.  ;)

[TranquilMind]

I'm not Christian, but...

 

I am the child of Muslim immigrants who have many friends who are also Muslim immigrants to the U.S. For them living in the U.S. has been a challenge, whether it was the 1970s and they had seen no other Muslims for a decade, or whether it was 2001 and people were being shot for being Muslim or even looking different (Sikh, Hindu, etc).

 

Even in this isolating and sometimes antagonistic environment that have retained their faith and worship. Coming to a new country, which was much less religious than the country they had left, didn't cause them nor their friends to leave their faith.

 

Immigrants go to new countries and keep their faith all the time. Just look around the U.S.!

Hey...you are right!

 

Great point.  Wish I'd thought of it at the time. 

[TranquilMind]

You are absolutely right. There is no formula, but I think your best bet is what goes on at home within the family, which then becomes the foundation within the person wherever they go. Christianity is not about a set of rules.

 

For what it's worth, my children have all traveled and spent a lot of time internationally as well. My one daughter is currently attending a secular university in Central America, and my son chose to ride his bike alone across Europe the year following high school. Another daughter lived in Senegal for a half year and Northern Ireland for a half year, both through secular programs.

 

They are all strong young adults who remain true to their faith.

 

Don't listen to your friend.

Thank you!  Those are really encouraging words.

Any my family - especially my oldest - would LOVE to know your family.  We don't know anyone who actually does these things.  But my oldest will.  And my husband and I might too.  You never know!

[ThisIsTheDay]

There IS no formula. Adam and Eve had the perfect parent and you know how that turned out.

 

(I am not trying to be flip, although it may come across that way.)

 

The safest place for your kid to be is in the center of God's will, no matter what school, no matter what country, no matter what.

[TranquilMind]

There IS no formula. Adam and Eve had the perfect parent and you know how that turned out.

 

(I am not trying to be flip, although it may come across that way.)

 

The safest place for your kid to be is in the center of God's will, no matter what school, no matter what country, no matter what.

No kidding.

 

Even GOD didn't get the perfect obedience that He deserved.

It's not surprising that neither did I.   Or this acquaintance either!

[Mrs Mungo]

I sympathize. I want to control everything too. It took a very long hard struggle and some humbling experiences to admit that I don't and can't. I had to come to terms with making the best choices that *I* could and that the choices do not reflect upon me and my choices don't/shouldn't reflect upon other people. I think most people are doing the best *they* can, which doesn't necessarily look like me doing the best that *I* can. Sigh. It has been a long road.

[HelenNotOfTroy]

My husband lost his Christianity attending a Christian college and living at home.

[Susan in TN]

This, exactly. I went to a Christian LAC. While the atmosphere was pretty mild overall, there was certainly trouble to be found if you wanted it!

 

That is frustrating. You're right, there is no formula. So many factors play in, and our children have to, at some point, make their own decisions and forge their own path. We point them in the right direction and hope for the best.

Yes. And if we are honest with ourselves, we all, young and old Christians alike, rebel in one way or another. Those "outwardly perfect kids" have to deal with rebellion every bit as much as the ones whose rebellion shows itself in a more "public" manner.

[Murphy101]

If I never hear the phrase, "We are educating them for heaven, not Harvard." again, it will be too soon.

 

Grrr.

 

As it is, the last time I heard it, I managed to grit out simply, "It isn't either or. One doesn't have to be ignorant to be a good Christian."

 

The annoying thing is, all of Christianity has expanded by going into areas where it didn't exist. Why are modern day Christian presumed so weak of faith that mingling among non believers will cause them to "lose" their faith?

[marbel]

I know a young man in who went to church all his life, had very devout parents, all that stuff, but he held back on professing faith and becoming a member of the church.  Eventually he went away to a secular college.  By the end of his first semester he found he believed after all, and the first  Sunday he was home on holiday he professed faith and became a member of his church.

 

 

[gardenmom5]

:grouphug: btdt-got-the-t-shirt.

 

I don't understand the hiding their light under a bushel mentality.   I do think it is fear based. hmm, parable of the man who hid his one talent in the ground out of fear of losing it perhaps?

 

I've certainly dealt with them - even with dds uni experiences.  it was ironic when 2dd took a two year sabbatical for religious reasons, she had FAR more support from her very secular school staff than a friends dd at a religious school. (she got a lot of "why don't you just stay here and get married?"  really?)

 

eta: I'm the parent who wants it all.  well educated children who also choose religion because THEY choose to believe and follow.   I do not think they are mutually exclusive.  I also belong to a religion where the more education someone has, the more participatory they often are.

 

I had one child who rejected religion as a teen.  He got a good glimpse of what was out there - and he didn't like it.  he is now here because it is his choice.  

[gardenmom5]

My husband lost his Christianity attending a Christian college and living at home.

my grandmother wielded religion as a weapon of control. my mother became agnostic/atheist. I came to understand why people would leave the religion they grew up with, because of her example.  I consider the fact I'm a believing Christian to have been in spite of her, and only because I started thinking she was full of it by the time I was 13.

[TranquilMind]

My husband lost his Christianity attending a Christian college and living at home.

Yikes!

Not the result they were hoping for, I'm sure, either his parents or at the college!

What happened, if you don't mind my asking?

[TranquilMind]

If I never hear the phrase, "We are educating them for heaven, not Harvard." again, it will be too soon.

 

Grrr.

 

As it is, the last time I heard it, I managed to grit out simply, "It isn't either or. One doesn't have to be ignorant to be a good Christian."

 

The annoying thing is, all of Christianity has expanded by going into areas where it didn't exist. Why are modern day Christian presumed so weak of faith that mingling among non believers will cause them to "lose" their faith?

Hear, hear, Martha!

[TranquilMind]

I know a young man in who went to church all his life, had very devout parents, all that stuff, but he held back on professing faith and becoming a member of the church.  Eventually he went away to a secular college.  By the end of his first semester he found he believed after all, and the first  Sunday he was home on holiday he professed faith and became a member of his church.

Thank you!

I don't want to toss my kids to the wolves or anything, but gee.....their faith has to be theirs, not mine.

I had to find my own in my own way.  So will they.

[TranquilMind]

.

 

 

eta: I'm the parent who wants it all.  well educated children who also choose religion because THEY choose to believe and follow.   I do not think they are mutually exclusive.

 

 

I also belong to a religion where the more education someone has, the more participatory they often are.

 

I had one child who rejected religion as a teen.  He got a good glimpse of what was out there - and he didn't like it.  he is now here because it is his choice.  

 

This!  The Bolded!

I wish the Blue bolded were true too, but I think there are only pockets who believe that way.  It is sure true in this house!

[Ameena]

I lost my Xtian faith studying theology at a Catholic university. It was my experience that most theology students did as well, or at the very least suffer a faith crisis for a while. Even the students studying to become priests or those who were nuns went through it.

 

On the other hand, 5 years later I became a Muslim becuase G-d led me to it and it answered all the questions that Xtianity couldn't answer for me.

[Aelwydd]

Attending a conservative christian university was a large factor in driving me away from evangelicalism. I did remain in the faith for over a decade as an epicopalian, but am now teetering on the edge of atheism.

 

I'm relieved ds will make up his own mind regarding faith. I have never felt comfortable with the concept of molding his individual understanding of the cosmos after my own beliefs. It felt like a violation of sorts. Especially since it involved exercising control over what were accetable and unacceptable thoughts reegarding something that cannot be empirically observed or tested.

 

He will have the freedom apart from parental propaganda, to come to his own conclusions about the existence and nature of the divine.

[momacacia]

If only it were all so simple as your friend believes. If only ....

[Aelwydd]

I just wanted to add that the last bit I said about propaganda--that is the crux of your friend's dilemma. She fears that the world view she has spent years inculcating into her children will be overriden or replaced by competing propaganda encountered in a secular university.

 

I wouldn't say her fears are unfounded; but ultimately, the ideas and concepts she seeks to avoid will be encountered at some point anyway. Information is everywhere. Even in conservative schools, one may find a great deal of evidence for an opposing viewpoint.

 

ETA: SWB's perspective on cloistered home schooled children in secular institutions. . .

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/what-not-to-look-for-in-an-academic-department/

[Melissa in Australia]

I grew up in a religion that viewed tertiary education as one of the great evils. in fact I was strongly encouraged to leave high school as soon as I turned 16 as education was viewed as unimportant as the end was near and it was viewed as better to go preaching instead. I was a very pious girl so I left high school as soon as I completed year 10, and spent every available moment I could preaching. Now as an adult I am studying at university, and I have even sent my oldest son to university. I really wish that the church I was in had encouraged it's teens to get an education, at least complete high school it makes employment opportunities  so much better.

[DarlaS]

Acquaintance begins telling me that kids leave the faith as soon as they go to college 68% of the time (or some figure like that) and I should not want my kid to go to Europe because his faith might be lost.  My kid should only go to a Christian college, whether or not that college can provide what is necessary for later employment.

68%?

 

I wonder if it's occurred to anyone that at least some of these kids who "lost their faith" may have chosen a secular college because they did not wish to be at a Christian college. That would skew the numbers a bit...

[Aelwydd]

68%?

 

I wonder if it's occurred to anyone that at least some of these kids who "lost their faith" may have chosen a secular college because they did not wish to be at a Christian college. That would skew the numbers a bit...

Or, as I pointed out, they had previously never truly had a choice as to what to believe? A secular institution would represent the first real opportunity to critically examine the belief system they had been brought up in. If a parent has taken care to acknowledge and address various criticisms, and invited their children to investgate their faith, chances are a secular institution would present much less of a threat or crisis of faith.

[FaithManor]

OP, I hear ya! Unfortunately, we live in the land of "better off ignorant so they'll never question mom or dad or the preacher". There is a real ignorance is bliss mentality.The interesting thing is that the
local Christian school (evangelical using ACE pace curriculum) just reviewed their alumni stats and
surveyed thirty years worth of graduates only to discover that the sheltered education was not effective.
Not only did a high percentage of alums report great dissatisfaction with the quality of their high school
education, but also bitterness at the legalism of the school which left them disinclined to pursue the
faith in which they were raised. Academically and spiritually the results have been acknowledged to be
abysmal. The church is taking a vote on whether or not to close the school at the end of this school year.

I dealt with an extremely strict, sheltering, anti-intellectual church and school for only about two years of high school and it was just enough for me to walk away from God for in adulthood. Today I am a person
of faith in spite of that but the road was paved with personal pain.Because of this, dh and I vowed
that our approach to faith matters and education would be very different from what is typically seen
around here in evangelical families.We have taken a LOT of criticism for this. I am trying to cultivate
a "bugger off" vibe when it comes to academic, worldview, and faith based issuess in the hopes people
will stop trying to engage me in conversation about it.

[DarlaS]

Or, as I pointed out, they had previously never truly had a choice as to what to believe? A secular institution would represent the first real opportunity to critically examine the belief system they had been brought up in. If a parent has taken care to acknowledge and address various criticisms, and invited their children to investgate their faith, chances are a secular institution would present much less of a threat or crisis of faith.

I believe many kids raised in the faith *do* choose not to believe, but also choose not to be vocal about it. I've seen that said (in so many words) quite a few times in conversations here. And they would go along with what their parent's wanted through high school, but dread the very idea of a Christian college.

[DarlaS]

I dealt with an extremely strict, sheltering, anti-intellectual church and school for only about two years of high school and it was just enough for me to walk away from God for in adulthood. Today I am a person

of faith in spite of that but the road was paved with personal pain.Because of this, dh and I vowed

that our approach to faith matters and education would be very different from what is typically seen

around here in evangelical families.We have taken a LOT of criticism for this. I am trying to cultivate

a "bugger off" vibe when it comes to academic, worldview, and faith based issuess in the hopes people

will stop trying to engage me in conversation about it.

I attended a private legalistic Christian school for seven years. It affected me. Let's just leave it at that. :-P

 

My last three years of high school were at the public school. Wild horses could not have dragged me back to that school for one more year and a Christian college? No way. Once bitten, twice shy and all...

 

And just to clarify, I am not suggesting that if a child wants to attend a secular university that they are having a crisis of faith. More likely the reverse.

[Laura Corin]

 

 

Acquaintance mentions which colleges her daughter is looking at, and I just conversationally mention that college is so darn expensive today, but in the course of researching, I discovered it was much cheaper in almost all other countries.  

 

 

Just so that you can further your research: certainly in Britain, the more well-known universities are waking up to how much they can sell their prestige for to overseas students.  Prices are likely to rise steeply in the next few years.....

 

This is the latest announcement.

 

L

[Aelwydd]

I believe many kids raised in the faith *do* choose not to believe, but also choose not to be vocal about it. I've seen that said (in so many words) quite a few times in conversations here. And they would go along with what their parent's wanted through high school, but dread the very idea of a Christian college.

Well, of course, but how free are they to openly investigate a different viewpoint while at home? How much free will is at play when the only acceptable choice to Mom and Dad is when to make a proclamation of faith, not if.

 

IMO, the kids choosing to walk away from faith in college often has more to do with the newfound ability for exercising free will than it does a reasoned rejection of a given belief system. That's not to say that none of these kids ever reject faith out of rationalism or just a lack of belief; but, I do think that many walk away because it is the first time in their lives that doing so openly and freely is a real option.

 

Which is why a number of such "apostates" often return to their faith of origin later on. Because now it's actually a true choice and because many desire connections to their family roots and stability for their own children.

 

Those that reject faith due to intensive study and investigation seem to rarely return to believing--and that's true no matter what age they became skeptics.

[DarlaS]

Well, of course, but how free are they to openly investigate a different viewpoint while at home? How much free will is at play when the only acceptable choice to Mom and Dad is when to make a proclamation of faith, not if.

Not very and not much.

 

I think we're saying pretty much the same thing. They're seeking a place where they can freely believe or not believe for the first time.

[Aelwydd]

OP, I hear ya! Unfortunately, we live in the land of "better off ignorant so they'll never question mom or dad or the preacher". There is a real ignorance is bliss mentality.The interesting thing is that the

local Christian school (evangelical using ACE pace curriculum) just reviewed their alumni stats and

surveyed thirty years worth of graduates only to discover that the sheltered education was not effective.

Not only did a high percentage of alums report great dissatisfaction with the quality of their high school

education, but also bitterness at the legalism of the school which left them disinclined to pursue the

faith in which they were raised. Academically and spiritually the results have been acknowledged to be

abysmal. The church is taking a vote on whether or not to close the school at the end of this school year.

 

I dealt with an extremely strict, sheltering, anti-intellectual church and school for only about two years of high school and it was just enough for me to walk away from God for in adulthood. Today I am a person

of faith in spite of that but the road was paved with personal pain.Because of this, dh and I vowed

that our approach to faith matters and education would be very different from what is typically seen

around here in evangelical families.We have taken a LOT of criticism for this. I am trying to cultivate

a "bugger off" vibe when it comes to academic, worldview, and faith based issuess in the hopes people

will stop trying to engage me in conversation about it.

Don't ever apologize for giving your kids the free exercise of their intellect within your faith. The proof is in the pudding, as they say. Your kids are fully functional, confident people, not embittered and hostile towards the world. I can tell you which group I'd associate Jesus with more.

[Aelwydd]

Not very and not much.

 

I think we're saying pretty much the same thing. They're seeking a place where they can freely believe or not believe for the first time.

Yes.