What is the etiquette protocol here?

[AimeeM]

Deleting later. Please don't quote.

 

 

A person you've removed from your life sends you or your spouse a pricey gift.

 

This is a person who, in the past, has proven to use gifts or money for self gratification. She is looking to put you in a place where you have to express gratitude. An example would be when she helped your sister out of a tough financial spot; she heard that you gave her money, so she gave her more - but disbursed the money where she saw fit (i.e. instead of helping with the mortgage or food, she insisted she pay for a landscaper to do the lawn, to fix a hole in the wall, and to buy a new vacuum for your sister). I'm not saying this to say that there is every any reason to not express gratitude for any gift, but to say that she does this so that she can hear gratitude... and she likes other people to feel indebted to her.

 

This particular gift you do know she has been looking for, but you had told her before that the reason you haven't purchased one yourself is because you have no room for it in the house.

 

The person put in this position is my husband. His birthday was a few days ago and the gift was on our doorstep via UPS the other night. To make matter worse (at least in my head), she addressed the card from her AND her spouse (okay, okay, this is my stepmother we're talking about; if you've read my previous "toxic person" threads, you know that, lol - and the other person's name on the card is my father). We still have contact with my father.

 

My husband is very courteous, but if we say thank you, we're put in a position where we're contacting her (and the past has proven that she looks for any *hole* to come back after being cut out). If we say nothing, we're being rude to not only her, but to my father... whose name was also on the card (although the way the card was worded infers that he had little to do with the gift).

 

My husband would like to just thank my father, and of course it's his gift, so I'll leave it up to him (although, really, the gift is just going in the basement because we can't make that kind of space just appear, lol).

 

What says The Hive? Do we thank her politely, or maintain our "no contact" policy? Just thank my father? (but that seems rude too...).

 

Maybe I should add that the last time I cut her out of our lives, her father passed, and she expressed a need for me to comfort her - and I did. She had an in, took it, and I gave in. Some things happened before Christmas (a much larger blow up) and I cut her out again. It was very difficult for me to cut contact in the first place - as unstable as she is, she did raise me, and I do have some fond memories, but she was/is affecting my entire family with her instability and refusal to acknowledge it. I feel like this is her trying to have another "in". I could be over thinking it, but I've been through it before and it just... *feels* the same.

 

I had finally come to a happy place where we were going about life without worrying about this - and now it's back.

 

*Again, please don't quote - I really SHOULDN'T be airing my dirty laundry about this here, but I have nowhere else to go, lol*

[zoobie]

Just thank your dad and don't over think it. :)

[Catwoman]

Send it back.

[AimeeM]

Send it back.

That was hubby's other idea, lol.

[Hunter's Moon]

That is tough. Sending it back may be the only way to handle this that will keep you at the desired level of contact (i.e. none) with her.

 

You told her you did not have the space for it, and I assume she is aware of your feelings.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

Send a thank you card. That keeps the contact minimal.

[AimeeM]

Ah yes.

And we were trying not to bring our eldest child into the mess, by allowing her to maintain (supervised) contact via the telephone, and not going into detail about the *mess*.

However, apparently SM told my eldest that she was getting my husband this gift. So if we send it back, we have to explain it to her.

 

Fun times, I tell ya...

[ashfern]

Send it back. You've already told her in the past that you have no room for said gift.

[Catwoman]

That was hubby's other idea, lol.

I know it sounds mean to return the gift, but if you really don't want any contact, it might be the best thing to do.

 

Can you speak with your father privately about this? I would hate to see his feelings get hurt.

[Robin M]

I agree with Zoobie. Just thank your father, leave it in the basement and forget about it or donate it to someone who can use it.   Sending it back will only cause more issues.  I know, been there, done that. 

[MomatHWTK]

If the child is being involved via the phone call disclosure of the gift anyway, then it is time you told her what is really happening.  Don't unwittingly set your dd up to be a pawn in this. :( 

 

If I really meant no contact, I'd return the gift.  I'd let dad know that we did receive but don't feel we can keep it under the circumstances. 

[AimeeM]

If the child is being involved via the phone call disclosure of the gift anyway, then it is time you told her what is really happening.  Don't unwittingly set your dd up to be a pawn in this. :(

 

If I really meant no contact, I'd return the gift.  I'd let dad know that we did receive but don't feel we can keep it under the circumstances.

She knows the basics, but we didn't go into detail because we know that if she says anything to SM (grandmother), she may get dragged in deeper.

You're right though - I don't want her to be a pawn in this either.

[AimeeM]

I know it sounds mean to return the gift, but if you really don't want any contact, it might be the best thing to do.

 

Can you speak with your father privately about this? I would hate to see his feelings get hurt.

Yes, I can try to speak to him privately (hard call because I would have to reach him when he's working and his hours are random). He's going to be hurt regardless though :(

[Catwoman]

Yes, I can try to speak to him privately (hard call because I would have to reach him when he's working and his hours are random). He's going to be hurt regardless though :(

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

I'm so sorry, Aimee. It's hard to be stuck in the middle of a bad situation, where there doesn't seem to be a "right" thing to do. :(

[zoobie]

Does he have email?

[AimeeM]

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

I'm so sorry, Aimee. It's hard to be stuck in the middle of a bad situation, where there doesn't seem to be a "right" thing to do. :(

It is hard... but it's also infuriating on some level. I was very close to my father, but his deflation over this entire ordeal for some reason makes me angry.

[AimeeM]

Does he have email?

Not that she doesn't access.

[fairfarmhand]

Thank you dad. That's all.

 

It's okay.

[AimeeM]

Thanking just dad would REALLY anger her. Is that okay? I know it's a stupid question, but I don't want to feel like we're intentionally "stirring the pot". She will be angry with us - and with my father.

[Catwoman]

Thanking just dad would REALLY anger her. Is that okay? I know it's a stupid question, but I don't want to feel like we're intentionally "stirring the pot". She will be angry with us - and with my father.

Thank your dad when she's not around. Then it will be his decision whether or not to tell her about it.

 

It's terrible that your stepmother is damaging your relationship with your father. She sounds like a control freak.

 

(And that wasn't a stupid question -- this is a very awkward situation!!!)

[unsinkable]

self gratification.

 

Good thing you're not SKL.

 

People'd be all over this thread.

[AimeeM]

Good thing you're not SKL.

 

People'd be all over this thread.

Lol!

[AimeeM]

Thank your dad when she's not around. Then it will be his decision whether or not to tell her about it.

 

It's terrible that your stepmother is damaging your relationship with your father. She sounds like a control freak.

 

(And that wasn't a stupid question -- this is a very awkward situation!!!)

I'm not sure about control freak. She has some mental health problems, of that I'm sure (we all are - but the minute anybody mentions anything about it, *we're* the problem, not her). I think her being a control freak is just a subset of something else. I've tried to wash my hands of it though. She isn't willing to seek help or hear anything from anybody.

 

Since this last issue, I've only talked to my dad once or twice in months. I hate it too. I hate more that my perception of my father has changed drastically.

[bolt.]

A) return the gift with a very formal-polite thank you card attached, stating your DH's deep regret that he simply can not find a way to house or use the item.

 

B ) send a very formal-polite impersonal thank you card or note, addressed exactly as the gift was signed from, and keep the gift.

 

C) Call or email to your father, expressing thanks in a nice way, and say something like, "Betsy would probably also like to know that we are grateful, but we are not comfortable communicating directly with her. I trust that you are able to let her know that our reaction was positive." -- it doesn't matter if she reads it herself or if he conveys the message.

 

Or combine these: return with card and email, keep with card and email...

 

How old is the child? Why wouldn't she understand "Grandpa and 'Betsy' sent daddy a gift but it was too big for our little house, so we sent it back. I hope their feelings aren't hurt." (That would go down to about a 5 year old level, I think.) You could add something like, "We only told Grandpa about sending it back, because us adults aren't able to talk with 'Betsy' -- it makes us too upset whenever Betsy and I talk. I think that might surprise/upset Betsy, but I hope it's OK anyways."

[Guest]

Good thing you're not SKL.

 

People'd be all over this thread.

 

 

KKniVa's definition of trolling at it's finest.   :lol:

[AimeeM]

A) return the gift with a very formal-polite thank you card attached, stating your DH's deep regret that he simply can not find a way to house or use the item.

 

B ) send a very formal-polite impersonal thank you card or note, addressed exactly as the gift was signed from, and keep the gift.

 

C) Call or email to your father, expressing thanks in a nice way, and say something like, "Betsy would probably also like to know that we are grateful, but we are not comfortable communicating directly with her. I trust that you are able to let her know that our reaction was positive." -- it doesn't matter if she reads it herself or if he conveys the message.

 

Or combine these: return with card and email, keep with card and email...

 

How old is the child? Why wouldn't she understand "Grandpa and 'Betsy' sent daddy a gift but it was too big for our little house, so we sent it back. I hope their feelings aren't hurt." (That would go down to about a 5 year old level, I think.) You could add something like, "We only told Grandpa about sending it back, because us adults aren't able to talk with 'Betsy' -- it makes us too upset whenever Betsy and I talk. I think that might surprise/upset Betsy, but I hope it's OK anyways."

Autumn is 12. I hesitate to say much to her because she does know bits and pieces of what's going on. She's had a hard time in the past feeling like she's being dragged into it. I also know my SM well enough to know that if we simply tell Autumn that we haven't room for the gift, and she tells SM, SM will say something that will blow that out of the water (not mean to Autumn, but she'll let her know that this isn't the case and that Mommy and Daddy don't "like" her, or something to that effect).

I think we may just have to tell Autumn the truth. Somehow.

[Saraswati]

I'm sorry  to hear about your situation - it's so hard to have family situations like this. Personally, I would send a very simple thank you card - taking care not to make any comments such as "very kind of you.. " or "much appreciated..." - no focus on her, period. I would then call my father at a time when he was not with her and have a nice private chat with him. 

 

I wouldn't send the gift back, as it would put her in a position to claim victim. I don't know whether or not she might take that anger out on your father or not - I'm just thinking of a similar person that we've dealt with personally in dh's family. 

 

The gift could maybe be donated or passed on to a friend that may have room and use for it. 

 

I hope whatever choice you make, it clears up without any issue. 

[Alte Veste Academy]

Thanking just dad would REALLY anger her. Is that okay? I know it's a stupid question, but I don't want to feel like we're intentionally "stirring the pot". She will be angry with us - and with my father.

 

Well, I would return it and I wouldn't thank anyone. Because it's not really a gift. It's an effort to control you, a slap in the face, an "I know better than you" masquerade of gift-giving. It is sad to me that good people are put in a position of being made to feel guilty and rude when bad behavior is perpetrated on them. Angry, shmangry. She created the situation.

 

I would tell your DD that you were sending it back because there wasn't room for it and that in the future she should come to you about any contact with the gift-giver.

[Seasider]

Coming from a kinda-sorta similar set of experiences, I would ask dh to handle it by returning the gift, along with calling his father to thank him and explain that SM had been told previously it was something that he could not keep in the house. Let father later verbally pass along the thank you to SM. voila, no contact.

 

As far as dd is concerned, it was a calculated effort on SM's part to involve the child. Such behavior incenses me more than just sending an unwanted "gift" out of the blue. Keep calm, be light and open with dd. "You know, that was thoughtful of SM but she already asked dad about it and he told her a while ago that he would not like to have such-n-such in the house. She must have misunderstood."

 

Personally, I have experienced similar and it is always designed to provoke a reaction. Some folks can't stand when you go low-to-no contact with them.

[Seasider]

Thanking just dad would REALLY anger her. Is that okay? I know it's a stupid question, but I don't want to feel like we're intentionally "stirring the pot". She will be angry with us - and with my father.

She wants a reaction, she provoked a reaction by sending the unwanted gift. The cat is out of the bag. She's going to react one way or another no matter what you do. I have learned to choose the reaction that best protects my nuclear family.

 

I wouldn't send an email. That just gives her an image to reexamine and rekindle her (1) anger because you only thanked dad, or (2) delight because she provoked a response.

 

Try to get dad on the phone when she's not around.

[Seasider]

And fwiw, I had to go no unsupervised contact with my children for the SM figure in my life. That includes phone calls, in which you can only hear one side of the conversation. Burns me up when someone uses a kid to manipulate the behavior of the others in the family.

[bolt.]

 

 

Autumn is 12. I hesitate to say much to her because she does know bits and pieces of what's going on. She's had a hard time in the past feeling like she's being dragged into it. I also know my SM well enough to know that if we simply tell Autumn that we haven't room for the gift, and she tells SM, SM will say something that will blow that out of the water (not mean to Autumn, but she'll let her know that this isn't the case and that Mommy and Daddy don't "like" her, or something to that effect).
I think we may just have to tell Autumn the truth. Somehow.

Of course you have to tell her the truth. It just needs to be made age appropriate. I don't know many things that can't be made age appropriate for 12... what exactly is the problem that you don't want to explain?

 

It seems simple to me

- You don't have room for the gift

- You tell everyone that you don't have room for the gift (don't leave A to tell SM anything that isn't already across some other way, advise A not to bring it up)

- Your SM might think you are lying

- Your SM might tell your DD that she thinks you are lying

- If she does, that's grounds to discontinue communication, because it's not OK for people to call your parents liars

[lavender's green]

I know from experience that thank-you notes to people like this who you've removed from your life are taken as an invitation to go back to the way things used to be.

 

She's not doing this to be nice. She's doing it to manipulate you.

[Parrothead]

Two choices. 1. Send it back to the giver, your father. 2. Thank your father and only your father. You owe her nothing either way no matter what the voices in her head tell her.

[AimeeM]

no matter what the voices in her head tell her.

Oh my gah. I needed that laugh!

[StephanieZ]

Can you simply send a short, polite thank you note addressed to both of them?

 

Then, if you can use it, use it. If you can't, sell or donate it. 

[amo_mea_filiis.]

I can't be the only one wondering what the gift is!

 

What is it?

[AimeeM]

I can't be the only one wondering what the gift is!

 

What is it?

Lol.

It's a music station that plays vinyl records, MP3, CDs, etc. It's wooden and very nice.

 

He actually already has a record player (which, again, my SM knew)... but we have no room to bring it up from the basement (and his vinyls are being stored at his father's house in Philly). We certainly do not have space for THIS one, lol (we'd talked about trying to get an upgrade throughout the years... but there's simply no space upstairs).

[idnib]

I would throw it in the trash or donate it and never mention it. At all. Too bad for Dad, maybe he would think twice before going along next time.

 

If asked I would say "what gift?" (it's not really a gift anyway) and pretend I'd never seen it. Wash, rinse, and repeat if it comes again. 

 

I'm very firm with boundaries and would not want to make any effort to do more. And I wouldn't feel bad for even a moment.  :leaving:

 

 

(I'm not a terrible person, really! But this situation is a psychological trap and I would do the same thing I would do if someone handed me a bomb wrapped in a nice box.)

[LMD]

I wouldn't send it back either, IME - that's simply another way 'in'.

 

I, personally, take the path of least contact possible, which would be thanks to your father and that's it.

 

 

I've had similar issues - it's tough.  :grouphug:

[AmandaVT]

She wants a reaction, she provoked a reaction by sending the unwanted gift. The cat is out of the bag. She's going to react one way or another no matter what you do. I have learned to choose the reaction that best protects my nuclear family.

 

I wouldn't send an email. That just gives her an image to reexamine and rekindle her (1) anger because you only thanked dad, or (2) delight because she provoked a response.

 

Try to get dad on the phone when she's not around.

 

Yes - this. She's looking for a reaction. It's not a gift, it's manipulation. 

 

In addition to calling your dad, can you return the gift to where it was purchased? Or donate it? I would imagine there would be a number of places that would appreciate the music station. A nursing home, children's rec center? 

 

Sorry you guys were put in a bad position. 

[Tammyla]

I would be silent... :toetap05:  

 

 

I think no matter what you do, if you do something, it will come back to bite you.  (You didn't receive anything and you are under no obligation to send or say anything.) 

 

So, my thinking is, that your SM is waiting for you to give in and do what she wants, but you don't have to because it wasn't your gift and therefore isn't your problem.

 

 

 

I'm sorry you are dealing with such a manipulative woman.  Don't let her such you into her madness.

[KungFuPanda]

Since she knows you don't want it, and have no room for it, but decided to make it a birthday gift anyway, I'd have no problem returning it.

[NorthwestMom]

Send it back.  And everything Seasider said.

 

 

[*Lulu*]

I think I would have DH send a thank you to Dad with an acknowledgement of SM:

 

Dear Dad,

 

Thank you for the birthday gift. It was so nice of you and SM to think of me.

 

Much love to you,

 

DH

 

Then I would return it to the store, if possible, or, if not, donate it. You owe them zero explanation for where it ends up. It is, after all, a gift.

 

I would also either stop contact between my child and SM, or give the child a much better picture of the situation. This comes from growing up with a crazy, manipulative grandmother and never understanding why I was the only one who thought she was nuts. Then I got older and found out the whole family thought she was nuts, but wouldn't say anything.......all those years I thought *I* was crazy but I was only not old enough to be part of the super secret adult club!

[songsparrow]

Under normal circumstances, if you received the music station as a gift, the proper protocol would be to acknowledge any gift with a thank you card, and then do whatever you wish with it - if you don't have the space for it or don't want it, you can try to return it, or sell it, or gift it to someone else, or donate it.  

 

However, it sounds like your SM is using this social convention to attempt to force you into breaking your lack of contact with her (i.e., if I send them a gift, they HAVE to send me a thank you card).  Under those circumstances (and assuming you wish to maintain no contact), I would not send any thank you communication.  

 

Even sending the music station back to your parents themselves is a form of communication with her.  Instead, can you return it to the store that it came from with instructions to have it credited back to the original form of payment?  That way the credit will go back on their credit card or they'll get a reimbursement check in the mail from the company.  (Instead of returning it as "gift recipient" which would give store credit to you.) 

 

I think this is the best way to maintain no communication with your SM.

[Hen]

I agree with the others who said it is not a gift, it's a manipulation ploy.  Almost any action gives her some kind of satisfaction whether it be drama or reconnection with you, or just the sheer joy of knowing she is poking you and causing you to spend any amount of minutes thinking of her.  the only way to win is not to play.  Not playing, to me, means no reaction.  No thank you note, no returning it, but give it away to someone or donate it and take the tax credit.   If you feel a need to thank Dad, do it privately in person when she is not around.  And then explain to dd that a gift that is not wanted and is given even after being told it's not wanted, is not a gift but a mean thing.

[AimeeM]

And now she left me a voicemail (on my cell, not my husband's - she knows better than to call him) asking if T received the gift.

 

I'm not answering. I'm not calling back.

 

But between The Hive and me, I feel disrespectful. *sigh*

 

I suppose I'm still young enough that I feel some ridiculous need to be respectful to my parents, even when one is off her rocker and making everyone miserable. Bah.

[Jenny in Florida]

I would send it back, thank your dad for the kind thought, but explain -- to him -- that, as you had said, you really don't have room for the item.

 

"Hi, Dad. Thank you so much for thinking of Hubby Dear on his birthday. Unfortunately, as I think we explained, we had already decided we really don't have room for this item. So, we're going to have to go ahead and return it to the store. It sure was sweet of you, though. So, how are things going with you these days?"

[Robin M]

You really don't even need to tell them you returned it. Just thank them and be done with it.  I received a gift from my father in law which we returned and got something else. He never asked about it beyond the fact that we got it.