What do you consider "gifted"?

[Pawz4me]

I strongly disagree with this assertion for homeschoolers with kids who are more than just moderately gifted. There are a number of fantastic GATE programs out there that homeschoolers can access (and that often have generous financial aid for low-to-moderate income families) if they have the scores to qualify. The MIT admissions page for homeschooled applicants specifically recommends participation in talent search programs like Johns Hopkins CTY, Stanford EPGY, or Duke TIP, as well as summer programs like PROMYS and MathCamp.

 

 

Although, at the same time, my little brother qualified for the Duke TIP thing with his 7th grade ACT score... 

 

My oldest son was invited to participate in Duke's TIP at the end of his fourth grade year (in public school).  I have no idea what qualified him.  I've always assumed, but don't know for sure, that it was based on his end-of-year testing results.  At the time he was participating in an academically/intellectually gifted public school program that seemed to me to simply be more of the same level work the other kids were doing.  To my knowledge he was never IQ tested.  Truthfully, I wouldn't label DS as gifted, and certainly not "more than just moderately gifted."  He's extremely bright, learns most things quickly and easily, has a fabulous work ethic and has always had solid goals for where he wants to get in life.  But according to most of the links posted on this thread, he doesn't really "fit" as gifted.  Labels are something we're not particularly interested in, especially when it comes to something that's so very hard to quantify as giftedness.  FWIW, he did participate in Duke's TIP for awhile but on the whole didn't find it a particularly worthwhile use of his time.

[Mommy22alyns]

I tested as gifted throughout my school career.  I've not had my girls tested; I really just think they're high bright.  I also believe that Rebecca is gifted at gymnastics, and that won't show up on any test.  And I have run across SO many people who just don't get it.

[AimeeM]

Huh...I score above level 5 by IQ test, but did none of the things listed. My son scores mid to high level 3 by IQ, but did NONE of the things listed.

 

Some kids just don't "show it".

Agreed. My mensa-card-carrying husband wasn't an early bloomer (and, frankly, that seems to be what this list caters to - early bloomers). Given, he does have multiple talents, but I think he walked at an average and talked at an average age (and learned to read at an average age).

Frankly, his multiple talents have proven a source of frustration in his adult life (and teen years) - he had so many interests and talents that it was very difficult for him to "settle" on one, career wise. He is proficient (at least) on almost every instrument, but knew music wasn't an great career path; his degrees are ALL over the board in biology, physics, computer science/engineering. I would say he's only just settled into a career (well into his 40's) now... and even now he has dreams of doing *more*.

[Embassy]

I hope it didn't sound like I thought there weren't intense kids out there who need support for that.  I have an easy child, an intense child, and a child who probably has a LD.  

 

I think there *is* a personality type that some gifted kids fall into that hits a lot of the common stereotypes.  I said something about it on the gifted = bad sleeper thread.  I don't think a lack of those things indicates a lack of giftedness though.

 

Sometimes people here imply or actually say outright that a gifted kid would do poorly at ______, but bright kids will do well. For example, a "truly gifted" individual wouldn't test well.  Yes, there are plenty of people who would see the answers that could be right but aren't what the examiner wants. Some might be paralyzed or distracted by it, but why couldn't others just process all of that and move on? People who do well in school aren't gifted.  Well, a lot of bright people do well in school, and a lot of gifted people don't, but the ability to complete menial tasks is more a personality trait than an indication of giftedness. I know some amazingly talented people who did well on all of their boring schoolwork and kept their minds occupied elsewhere. (Although I chuckle a bit when I recall my super-smart friend bringing our saint of a third grade teacher to tears.) Gifted kids don't relate well to kids their age, or gifted individuals can't work with other people. I can think of so many examples that prove that wrong.

 

Resources like SENG fill a definite need, but I think we are swinging the pendulum too far in the other direction today. I think we've moved from using the word gifted to mean everyone who fits in a very small box based on actual achievement to using the word gifted to mean everyone who fits into a very small box that places more emphasis on personality type than ability.

 

Gifted kids have all different personality types.  My kids have quite different personalities.  I think you will find on boards like this that individuals will express their opinions based on experience with their own family.  It may be correct for them, but totally different for another family.  I have a gifted child that would do very well academically in school and a gifted child who would enjoy the social scene, but would have academically checked out by 3rd grade.  Kids are all different.  Gifted kids are all different.  I've never had the sense that giftedness related to a certain personality type.  The only thing I've heard is that there is a greater percentage of introverts in the gifted population, but that doesn't mean there aren't extroverts.

 

I replied on the sleeper thread because I had an incredibly difficult sleeper who had such high needs it made everyone look at me like I was causing his difficulties.  His issues with sleep and his high needs were related to his giftedness, although I didn't know it at the time.  

 

[Erin]

his degrees are ALL over the board

I have an uncle like this lol  He'll tell you he's an engineer.  So then the question is, well what kind of engineer?  Structural?  Chemical?  Environmental?  Computer?  etc.

And his answer is, "Yes."   :D

[Embassy]

I tend to agree.

I don't know of schools anymore that even have gifted programs (small districts cut them years ago, if they ever had them), so testing a kid for giftedness is pointless.  

For homeschooling it's pointless also because we're going to adjust our program to the kid no matter what a test would show.

 

Now, I will agree that sometimes it's nice to put a label to something you're struggling with; why is my kid such an impulsive space-cadet?  Ah.... ADD.  Well that makes sense.   Why is my kid always coming up with these hair-brained ideas (some of which actually work)?  Oh, yeah, he might indeed be gifted...  

 

 

But I've known one too many adults who grew up knowing they were brilliant, and worse, everyone around them told them how brilliant they were.  The arrogance that creates is utterly obnoxious.  

 

I had two of my kids tested and for one of them it has been very important.  I questioned whether this kid was gifted or if he was 2E by his academic performance.  He tested as PG who learns differently and fits the profile as a late-bloomer.  I have totally changed how I homeschool him.  Testing my other kid gave me confidence to continue to challenge him at an appropriate level and knowledge that I wasn't crazy to give him the work I was giving him.  I also tested my oldest child at the end of Kindergarten because I had no clue what to do with him.  Testing can be very helpful for the homeschooler, IMHO.

[Erin]

Testing my other kid gave me confidence to continue to challenge him

In other words, you were already meeting his needs.  So the testing wasn't really for him so much as it was for you.  

In which case, like I already said, yeah, sometimes it's nice to be able to put a label on something you're struggling with.   :)

[Embassy]

In other words, you were already meeting his needs.  So the testing wasn't really for him so much as it was for you.  

In which case, like I already said, yeah, sometimes it's nice to be able to put a label on something you're struggling with.   :)

 

Yes, it was very helpful for me.  But I wouldn't have been in the place of challenging him in that way if I hadn't tested him in Kindergarten.

[Erin]

I doubt you're giving yourself enough credit.  
I would bet money that if your child showed talent that wasn't being met, you would meet it.  Test or no test.  

[mommymilkies]

Testing can also help them get into gifted programs in the summer or online. TIP and CTY have some wonderful opportunities for gifted kids, but you must be tested.

[Embassy]

I doubt you're giving yourself enough credit.  

I would bet money that if your child showed talent that wasn't being met, you would meet it.  Test or no test.  

 

The testing showed me that my children were not reaching their potential.  One kid was far from it.   Sometimes talent isn't quite so evident even when you are with your kids 24/7.  Or maybe I'm just not as perceptive as others :p  Testing helped me learn more about how my kids think and that has been a tremendous help to me as their teacher and parent.

[AimeeM]

I have an uncle like this lol  He'll tell you he's an engineer.  So then the question is, well what kind of engineer?  Structural?  Chemical?  Environmental?  Computer?  etc.[/size]

And his answer is, "Yes."   :D[/size]

Lol. Sounds exactly like Tony. He IS an engineer (because that is the field he works in), but his engineering background is varied.

[MistyMountain]

I actually don't think identifying it is the worse thing. I definitely see how it can lead to arrogance and that isn't good. At the same time it sucks to have no one notice and to be missed and not be given the challenge you need. I like to have a lot of information on something to know what I am dealing with and how to best help. The more information I have I feel the better I can figure out how to best help. I am curious with my own children. Two of them I don't think they are and knowing for sure would be helpful to keep perspective and to know strengths and weaknesses. Although I know nothing is set in stone especially in young children and who knows if things will be a little different in the future. The other has all the traits on the chart someone listed but doesn't fit the 5 level link in all areas that was linked. They aren't an early reader, don't do advanced math at an early age or even like math and doesn't care for puzzles but fits every trait listed for a gifted learner.

[Crimson Wife]

Testing my other kid gave me confidence to continue to challenge him at an appropriate level and knowledge that I wasn't crazy to give him the work I was giving him.

Exactly! I have objective proof that I'm not some nutso "Tiger Mom" pushing my kid to complete work that is inappropriate for her.

[jar7709]

I think it's just one of those dumb things where the word has taken on other meanings and people get their panties in a twist over it.  As a comparison it used to be perfectly acceptable to call someone mentally retarded.  Now that's used to insult someone rather than talk about anything medical or matter of fact.

 

I hate these bumper stickers that say, "Every child is gifted."  Yes, every child (like every person) is special in their own way and special to those who love them, but it isn't about that.  it isn't about being special. 

 

Sometimes I think there should be a new word. 

 

To the bolded, I've thought this many times!  Back when I was identified "gifted" in elementary school, oh-so-many-years-ago, I was lucky enough to be put into a then-new, full-time program for gifted kids.  The district received a lot of flack when it was proposed that the program for "gifteds" would be called the "gifted program", so they renamed it the "challenge program".  OK a sign of trouble to come, but IMO that was a more appropriate name anyway.  I still live in the same district, and have the sads that the program is long-gone for my own kids, thanks to budget cuts, sour grapes from parents who's kids couldn't get into the program, and the idea that if they're really so smart, they'll thrive wherever they are placed.   :(

[forty-two]

The testing showed me that my children were not reaching their potential.  One kid was far from it.   Sometimes talent isn't quite so evident even when you are with your kids 24/7.  Or maybe I'm just not as perceptive as others :p  Testing helped me learn more about how my kids think and that has been a tremendous help to me as their teacher and parent.

 

I get it :grouphug:.  I'd love to be able to test my oldest, because I've found that "wanting to stop because it was too challenging" and "wanting to stop because it was mind-numbingly boring" looks *very* similar in dd7.  About the only way to tell is to observe her behavior during the rest of the day - tired because of boredom leads to an explosion of off-the-wall energy that drains us all.  And even then I'm just theorizing.  I was identified as gifted in school, and so it was on my radar; dd7 is clearly bright and has exhibited a lot of giftedness markers only without any of the early achievement in reading/math, so I had no idea what to think. 

 

So I've just been going slow and steady on school stuff, not wanting to miss anything, and it was only her explosion in reading (six months from non reader to high school level - basically she can read anything she picks up, with understanding) that allowed me to see her very rapid progress from "too hard" to "working very hard" to "working, but success is coming easily" to "too easy" to "so easy it is hard to suffer through", and realize that what I thought was "too hard" in math was probably actually "so easy it is mind-numbing" (and I remember that feeling, and how it drains it out of you).  But I have no idea how much practice she *does* need, other than a lot less than I thought. 

 

As it is, I'm making a guess and starting from there, adjusting as needed, but it would be nice to have testing that would give a benchmark for where to start - I suspect from my reading on levels of giftedness that she could really fly if I let her, but I don't *know* that, and it's hard not to take the conservative route of incrementally upping the challenge/reducing the review until I find the sweet spot.  But it is *hard* only having a floor and *no* idea of her ceiling - if I could afford testing, I would do it in a heartbeat, because it would save a *lot* of time in finding her sweet spot, because I would be starting with an educated guess instead of my current shot in the dark.

[Crimson Wife]

I thought about these, but they are expensive.  I don't know of any financial aid.  It makes more sense to me to look into these things at the high school level.  Is anyone really going to care what GATE programs my kid took when he was 11?  KWIM?

But to get into some of the more competitive and prestigious H.S. programs, it definitely helps to have established a track record earlier on.

[Crimson Wife]

I think it is fine if it puts a person's mind at ease or they just simply want to do it.  I'm not arguing that.  But saying stuff like it eases your mind so you know your not a tiger mom?  Who is going to accuse you of that?  And why do you even care what they think?

My neck of the woods seems to be very polarized into the nutso "Tiger Moms" vs. the anti-hothousers and there doesn't seem to be much in the way of middle ground for moms who are pro-academics but as part of a well-rounded, balanced childhood.

[MinivanMom]

I would use these definitions.

 

Gifted = A child with an IQ that is 2 or more standard deviations above the mean. (130+ on most IQ tests)

High-Achiever = A child whose academic performance places them in the top 3-10% of their peers. (regardless of IQ)

Talented = A child who has unusually advanced abilities in a non-academic area. (music, dance, sports)

Prodigy = A child who performs at the level of an adult professional. (7 yr old performing at Carnegie Hall, 13-yr-old making break-throughs in cancer research)

 

I find it very interesting to see how others define some of these words.  You can see that it dredges up a lot of emotion for many people: about the word itself, about our own identification, about our school experiences.  I hate that the word gifted has become so emotion-laden and political.  In real life I always use the word "bright" instead, because it isn't as controversial and it generally conveys the correct meaning.  In our local schools they use the term "academically and intellectually gifted," but the program is a watered down pull-out with criteria based almost entirely on achievement tests.  A third of the students at our local elementary school are identified as "academically and intellectually gifted," but a neighboring elementary school has 50% of their students identified as gifted.  Crazy!

 

I think it's interesting that so many people associate the term "gifted" with being socially challenged or having behavioral quirks or being handicapped in some way.  I thought the Terman Study put those prejudices to rest.  Most of the gifted children (and teens) that I have known in real life have very good social skills.  I have known some highly gifted children that were a bit quirky, but the vast majority have had very good social skills.  I really don't think high intelligence is linked to social impairment, although individual children may have any combination of strengths and challenges.

[Parrothead]

I could have written every word of that, about myself and my kids.

 

I think it's perfectly plausible that gifted kids are more than averagely likely to also have some kind of sensory disorder, or social issues, or LD's or whatever, but it seems like it's considered basically a prerequisite these days.

I wasn't recognized as gifted until high school. I was beyond painfully shy so I didn't put myself forward to not draw attention.

[Parrothead]

 

 

 

Not the only... My little brother is gifted with ADD. He was fortunate enough to have a school that recognized his ability as well as his challenge.

However, my son, facing the exact same issues, has not been so lucky.

 

To grades, most kids I know who get good grades are of average or above-average intelligence...not gifted. Most of them are the ones who are "if only she would apply herself..." To be sure, that was me. ;)

 

BTW, I really like this graphic that describes the difference between bright and gifted. Personally, I have one of each.

Hmmm what to do with the child that flops from one side to the other? There are more on one side, but not equally.

 

It is an interesting chart.

[Parrothead]

I strongly disagree with this assertion for homeschoolers with kids who are more than just moderately gifted. There are a number of fantastic GATE programs out there that homeschoolers can access (and that often have generous financial aid for low-to-moderate income families) if they have the scores to qualify. The MIT admissions page for homeschooled applicants specifically recommends participation in talent search programs like Johns Hopkins CTY, Stanford EPGY, or Duke TIP, as well as summer programs like PROMYS and MathCamp.

. Unfortunately those things cost money. There can't be financial aid for everyone.

[Parrothead]

Ah.

 

My area just seems to scrape by. Any sign of interest in academics is construed as overachievement. I don't talk academics with anyone except here. And thank goodness I at least have this board.

 

I'm sure that isn't entirely true and there are plenty who care and are into it. I just can't seem to find these people!

I have the same problem with my friends. One of them tells me on a regular basis we are "doing too much" for school.

[Dory]

This is an interesting view on the difference between gifted and bright.

[kiwik]

To the bolded, I've thought this many times! Back when I was identified "gifted" in elementary school, oh-so-many-years-ago, I was lucky enough to be put into a then-new, full-time program for gifted kids. The district received a lot of flack when it was proposed that the program for "gifteds" would be called the "gifted program", so they renamed it the "challenge program". OK a sign of trouble to come, but IMO that was a more appropriate name anyway. I still live in the same district, and have the sads that the program is long-gone for my own kids, thanks to budget cuts, sour grapes from parents who's kids couldn't get into the program, and the idea that if they're really so smart, they'll thrive wherever they are placed. :(

Yeah people used to say when I was a kid "the middle ones are ones to work on, the bright ones will be fine whatever you do (or don't do) and you can't do much with the slow ones anyway". I haven't heard the last part of that for over 20 years but I still hear the first two parts frequently".

[Arcadia]

Yeah people used to say when I was a kid "the middle ones are ones to work on, the bright ones will be fine whatever you do (or don't do) and you can't do much with the slow ones anyway". I haven't heard the last part of that for over 20 years but I still hear the first two parts frequently".

I still hear that nowadays. Teachers sometimes forget that some parents have hyper good hearing unfortunately. I have some teachers here tell me that my boys will do fine regardless of what they learn in school :(

[mom2scouts]

I have a child who is identified as "highly gifted" and has an IQ of 150 and possibly higher. It was obvious to anyone who was around him for more than a few minutes that he was not like other children. He also had extremely asynchronous development so he was emotionally a younger child and mentally a much older child. As a preschooler he would be reading novels and using a large vocabulary one minute and dissolving into a major tantrum the next minute because of something that would be a minor frustration for most kids. In our case it was important to have him identified as gifted because we were desperate to find things to help him navigate childhood and identification opened up some opportunities that had a major effect on his life. We were not homeschooling at the time and not homeschooling him is one of my major regrets in life. Most moderately gifted people do quite well, but giftedness can be a curse as well as a blessing.

[Snowfall]

Exactly! I have objective proof that I'm not some nutso "Tiger Mom" pushing my kid to complete work that is inappropriate for her.

 

This is SO TRUE, because we did not have my daughter tested because I suspected she was gifted. I thought she *might* be (and according to the testing she is, but she's 2E) but she just had all these issues...no, ISSUES. And I could see that she was smart, but it was like I couldn't get through to her. She was too smart to be picking things up so slowly and to be getting so frustrated over things. It didn't make sense. But testing made it all make sense. Now I know she is capable of every bit as much as I thought she was. It's just a matter of packaging it up in a way that she can take it in.

 

Now, her results were borderline, so that I'm not sure whether she's actually, actually gifted or whether this new testing will show something else. I know she's close enough to the line that I can expect as much as I was expecting from her, and that's all I need to know. I DID need to know that, though, and there was no way for me to be confident about it without testing. That might just be an issue for kids with LDs or kids who learn differently, and not for all kids, gifted, bright, or whatever else, but I think it's very true for smart kids with learning differences. It's easy to see they're smart. It's not easy to figure out how to help them learn.

[Crimson Wife]

. Unfortunately those things cost money. There can't be financial aid for everyone.

If families don't even bother to apply in the first place, they will never know what financial aid they might receive.

[shawthorne44]

If families don't even bother to apply in the first place, they will never know what financial aid they might receive.

 

I am selfishly happy that many don't bother.  It means more money for those that do. 

[Dmmetler]

Many of the programs do have some free services or low cost services available. Duke TIPS has very expensive classes, but also some free online ones and some very low cost ones. BESTS has expensive summer camps and weekend programs, but will provide a lot of information and support to parents, without charge (and for K-3rd grade, there isn't even an EXPLORE test fee to pay). And Davidson provides a great deal at no charge. I've also had cases where financial aid or an outright "we want her in this class, so don't worry about the tuition" has been offered when a class or program was recommended for my DD at all (and often leading outside of GT specific programming) In general, it's been a case where asking questions and otherwise looking has led to discovering far more than I'd expected-and, in many cases, leading far outside what I could provide at home.

[Jackie]

I define gifted as being the 98th or 99th percentile on an IQ test.

 

For those without test scores, I would say a stand-in for me is the ability to grasp simple concepts without really trying, complex concepts with little effort, and untaught concepts by some form of osmosis. Whether this translates to academic achievement is irrelevant.

[MinivanMom]

This is an interesting view on the difference between gifted and bright.

 

:001_wub:  :001_wub:  :001_wub:

 

I love this video!  I am so stealing the Batman vs. Superman analogy!

[MissKNG]

I define gifted as being the 98th or 99th percentile on an IQ test.

 

 

I also define gifted like this.

[forty-two]

I define gifted as being at least two standard deviations beyond the norm in general intelligence, with IQ tests being the best measure we have at the moment for determining it (which would mean gifted as having an IQ of 130 or above, with a standard deviation of 15 points). That makes it the top 3% or so of the population.

 

I've been reading interesting discussions about the similarities and differences (and conflicts) between two dominant views of giftedness: giftedness as high achievement (in which giftedness is about achieving at the top of one's peers in a given domain(s), and so people move in and out of giftedness) and giftedness as high potential (in which giftedness is a stable trait that affects individuals throughout their lives, regardless of what they are achieving or not achieving at any point in time).

 

In reading gifted literature, I've appreciate the gifted-potential work far more (the focus on understanding the qualitatively different inner experiences of gifted individuals has been very helpful in understanding myself), but I do love the focus on effort in gifted-achievement work. At any rate, the discussion over the NAGC President's "Taking a Bold Step" article - moving from a definition focused on gifted-potential to a definition focusing mostly (but not exclusively) on gifted-achievement - has been interesting to read (though I am more than a year late to the discussion ;)).

[My3girls]

I don't know how schools define it. My son is considered gifted simply on the basis of his IQ score and how that is reflected in his school work. He is ahead of his grade level in all subjects and always has been.

 

What's funny is that my father and I have the same IQ score as my son. I, too, was considered gifted in school, which actually made it difficult for me. I was always sent to the library...alone...during reading time, because in first grade, I was reading at a 7th grade level. I was taken out of recess on M-W-F each week to study French with a few other kids in my elementary school. That put me out of the loop socially, and made T-Th on the playground a little harder to negotiate for me. Also, I was bored almost all of the time. I mastered the material being presented, and always finished my seat work within ten minutes. Thankfully, many of my teachers allowed me to read when I completed my assignments. Some didn't, and that was hard. If I hadn't been so concerned with being a "good girl", I'm sure I'm would have gotten in trouble.

 

The problem I now see in my son that I had as well, is that I never had to work to learn anything. So when I finally did have to actually *gasp* STUDY for something....I hated it. Being gifted made me very lazy in school. It wasn't until I was placed into a private, challenging, high school that I woke up. My grades suffered as a result of my laziness. I finally woke up sometime in the middle of my sophomore year and learned how to study. I regressed in college, as my freshman year was a complete review, and I had to pull my act together again when my classes started to require some attentiveness on my part.

 

What I have found that giftedness means for me is that I can pick up new things and concepts very quickly, I read scary fast, I have an excellent memory for facts, and I can wax the floor with people at Trivial Pursuit. And that's giftedness for me in a nutshell. :D

 

So I don't think that grades are a reflection of intelligence. They can be...but they don't have to be. Non-gifted children can work hard and get straight As, and genius kids can fail...and often do, because the school system doesn't know how to deal with how they learn. I think well recognized and established tests, administered by someone who knows what they're doing, are probably the best indication of raw intelligence and giftedness. What the individual chooses to do with that is up to them.

 

Oh my gosh, we are educational twins. Lol. That was my experience except my parents couldn't afford to get me into a better school. I attempted to dumb down in Jr. High to fit in which of course didn't work. I slept through High School and skipped half of second semester Senior year because I had already won a full ride to Vanderbilt. I still graduated number 9. Then I got to Vandy and uh-oh! Study? What's that? I struggled big time. I have no idea what my IQ is though. I've never been tested to my knowledge, and never really had a need to know I guess. The school system put me in the most advanced classes they had which by today's standards weren't all that.

 

 

My oldest was labelled gifted by the PS school system, my middle daughter has a learning disability which makes most things hard for her, and my youngest is probably gifted, but she can't be still long enough for anyone to have noticed. This is our first year homeschooling,and I am still feeling things out. I'm excited though for them to be able to learn at whatever pace suits them.

 

 

I think a person can be gifted in many different ways: academically, artistically, physically, etc... I do think that people with learning disabilities can be gifted as well. I know one young man who is simply a genius but has Aspergers so people think we is weird and/or dumb then are blown away by his knowledge and abilities especially in Science once they take time to know him. I think IQs play a factor, but I don't think they are as accurate as some would like to believe.

[...................]

Most states define gifted as an IQ score of 130 or higher.

 

I was in the gifted program in schools and it was fun.

 

But I don't think of my kids as gifted, because I know lots of non-gifted people who have made far, far more out of their education than I did.  Hard work is more important than IQ.  We streass Hard Work and Perseverance and Stick-to-it-ive-ness.  We read a bunch of articles and heard a radio report of the effects of students being told "you are so smart" or children being told "you are so hard working...keep it up!" over the course of ten years they actually followed these kids, and the emphasis on being taught to work hard, and valuing hard work in oneself TOTALLY erased the barriers of IQ (they didn't follow any LD kids)

 

IOW gifted is as gifted does.

 

OTOH since moving to my new state, I am surrounded by brilliant people!  In my little church of 40 we have more super high IQ math, Science or Computer majors than in my entire church of 300 in my old state.  I can tell when someone is truly "gifted" and that is wonderful.  

 

All that to say, I wouldn't even worry about the label.  Just provide challenge, and teach them to work hard, and persevere. :o)

[jennynd]

I will "only" go by a phycologist evaluation. I will not go by school whatever evaluation.

Both my kids were done by the school. the younger one was done 1-1 however is a short version and achievement type. and the older one is done by a group setting. I will not qualify them based on either of the test. Both of them IDed gifted by school but I can jst see the test is really not a intelligent test rather a ability that can be taught. So, even they are "labled" I will not consider than gifted until a real "physology evaluation" and we don't see a need and we do not plan to do so. We are happy with the afterschool and the gifted program provided by school and the kids are happy in school. So we are AOK

[jennynd]

Ah.

 

My area just seems to scrape by.  Any sign of interest in academics is construed as overachievement.  I don't talk academics with anyone except here.  And thank goodness I at least have this board.

 

I'm sure that isn't entirely true and there are plenty who care and are into it.  I just can't seem to find these people!

 

I totally feel you. And somehow a kid get drilled in sport activities 3 hrs a day and 3 days a week is totally fine. and parents are free to brag. WTH :glare:

[Arcadia]

I totally feel you. And somehow a kid get drilled in sport activities 3 hrs a day and 3 days a week is totally fine. and parents are free to brag. WTH :glare:

Here parents are busy comparing their kids state testing results, which tuition center is better and which elementary schools has the highest scores. Chess and math competitions "bragging" are normal here. Parents are already "bragging" over which preschool is better.

 

"The Harker School, the 120-year-old private school that's evolved into a science-technology powerhouse, opens its doors next month to preschoolers -- as long as their parents can afford to pay $22,000 a year.

The cost equals about 1½ years of tuition and fees at the University of California, or more than 2½ times the average annual cost of child care in the state." (link, they have a waiting list)

 

This preschool admit by IQ testing

http://www.nuevaschool.org/admissions/how-to-apply/iq-evaluation/iq-faq

these too

http://www.gateacademy.org/admissions.html

http://synapseschool.org/admissions/application-process/

[Crimson Wife]

This preschool admit by IQ testing

http://www.nuevaschool.org/admissions/how-to-apply/iq-evaluation/iq-faq

The sad thing is that I know some families who pulled their kids from Nueva because it didn't live up to its hype. One mom told me that her son, who'd taught himself to read at age 2, stopped because most of the kids in his kindergarten class at Nueva were not yet reading. I'm sorry, but a school that bills itself for the "highly gifted" should be supportive of early readers because it's not that unusual for truly gifted kids to be reading before kindergartner (not all, of course!)

 

I felt much better about not being able to afford the $29+k per child per year tuition at Nueva after hearing that anecdote!

[Heathermomster]

I'm curious how different people define it. Do you go by IQ scores? If so, do you refer only to the global score or do you consider subscores? And what kind of scores are we talking about here (use percentiles, since the different tests score slightly differently). Do you require a talent or special gift? Does the child have to appear gifted to anyone who met them or saw them doing academics? What do you mean when you call someone gifted?

DS was tested by a NP to help identify his learning issues.  Based upon her findings, DS was identified gifted as a result of two sub-test scores on the WISC-IV.

 

I'm not interested in the gifted designation other than how it explains his asynchronous academic development.  The Eides posted a power point presentation online to explain the stealth/gifted dyslexic and they describe DS perfectly. 

[Arcadia]

 but a school that bills itself for the "highly gifted" should be supportive of early readers because it's not that unusual for truly gifted kids to be reading before kindergartner (not all, of course!)

That is a kind of false advertising. It is easy in preschool and elementary school to do ability clustering/grouping.  In that case my older boy's public school actually did a much better job of accommodating even though it is an average neighborhood school.

[FriedClams]

I went to a military academy for college (federal - top achieving people). I would count 5-8 of my classmates, who were the top of the top, as "gifted". The rest were really bright people, or people with good work ethics or great study skills. The truly gifted were in an intellectual/understanding league all of their own.

 

My kids are sharp. Very sharp. But we focus on work ethic and study skills.

 

IMHO the term "gifted" is grossly overused and overemphasized.

[PentecostalMom]

I should have been more specific. I can't speak at all to how these things are handled in schools, but in homeschooling circles specifically, *parents* seem to consider gftedness and some kind(s) of LD's or other disorders to go hand-in-hand. Reading the ''Is my child gifted/It's so hard having a gifted kid''-type threads on the AL board, it seems be far more common for a gifted child to also have some kind of something, but as regentrude said, perhaps kids with those kinds of challenges are more likely to receive the kind of attention and testing that identify giftedness, while kids who are gifted without accompanying disorders fly under the radar.

 

In nearly 14 years of homeschooling in five states and on two continents, I can honestly say I have never heard this (the bolded).  FWIW, I do not visit the AL board.

 

IMHO, it seems like a much bigger deal with ps and newbie homeschooling parents as opposed to the ones I know that have hsing for years.  For me (and this is my opinion) it almost carries the same connotation as the word "rigor" being used so frequently.  Everyone has thier own definition and opinion of what elements are need to achieve either "giftedness" or "rigor".  I have local hs friends that I have known for over a decade and have never even heard this discussed, yet there are a couple of newer hs families and some of my younger friends whose children are being tested for "giftedness" in ps at the K and 1st grade levels that seem to talk about it all the time. 

 

I do want to make it clear that I am not criticizing anyone, just sharing my experience.  I have no desire to put my children through any sort of testing that is unnecessary, as I am another that was pulled out of early elementary classes for "enrichment" and "gifted" classes which only served to ostracize me from my peers.  I keep my dd at her grade level regardless of what grade level per subject she is in, because having her offically or documented at a different grade level makes it difficult to place them in outside activites.  My older ds was (and still is) a very active athlete, and we simply said he was in whatever grade he was in based on his DOB.  However, he graduated from high school a year early and with 32 credit hours awarded to him by a private school where he played sports, that reviewed all of the classes he had taken and the records, samples, and transcripts I had kept. 

 

I am just trying to say that everyone has a different definition and opinion.  Some read x page and think that's right, others will disagree.  Personally, keeping my dc right where they are and not being overly concerned if it is "Level 1" or "Grade 4" works the best for our family.

[PentecostalMom]

I went to a military academy for college (federal - top achieving people). I would count 5-8 of my classmates, who were the top of the top, as "gifted". The rest were really bright people, or people with good work ethics or great study skills. The truly gifted were in an intellectual/understanding league all of their own.

 

My kids are sharp. Very sharp. But we focus on work ethic and study skills.

 

IMHO the term "gifted" is grossly overused and overemphasized.

 

Totally agree with the bolded!

[quark]

That is a kind of false advertising. It is easy in preschool and elementary school to do ability clustering/grouping.  In that case my older boy's public school actually did a much better job of accommodating even though it is an average neighborhood school.

 

False advertising and a lot of ignorance. How many administrators truly know about giftedness? I have spoken to a number of private school administrators (at one time, I was trying desperately to find more challenge for my son) in a well-known-for-high-achievers-part of the country and none of them had even heard of talent searches!

 

On the topic of what is giftedness, I think of IQ numbers as a rough ID tool but I am not too comfortable defining it based on IQ alone. Each test is too different, designed to pick out different strengths, and testers themselves too subjective. Testers at a university for example might not have experience testing very highly gifted kids so they don't know what to expect given a child's personality whereas testers specializing in gifted kids might be specifically looking out for those things.

[Arcadia]

. Testers at a university for example might not have experience testing very highly gifted kids so they don't know what to expect given a child's personality whereas testers specializing in gifted kids might be specifically looking out for those things.

Testers who specialized in testing underperforming "bright" kids are again looking out for different things :)

I do agree IQ tests do pick up different things depending on the purpose of the test.  I had to sit for screening tests for my school's gifted program and one of the tests was just pictures.  So basically a non-reader would still be able to do the test.

[ktgrok]

I find all this fascinating. I do totally believe that gifted and high achieving are NOT the same thing, and that hard work will usually get you farther in life than giftedness. I think my parents did a good job of teaching me hard work/effort being the important thing, and they didn't share my IQ with me until I was much older. I am GLAD they tested me, as I loved the gifted enrichment my school did and all my good friends were in it. I still keep in touch. I think the only down side to testing, in my case, was that my poor parents have had to adjust to the fact that their daughter with a genius IQ has never had lofty career ambitions. I did get a bit of the "wasting your potential" over the years, but they have accepted it now I think. Had they never seen that sparkly genius definition I'm sure they still would have had expectations for me, so I don't know that it mattered. And they never said anything to me as a kid beyond, "you are very lucky, you can learn very easily,". 

 

looking back, perhaps the funny thing is in school  I always felt dumber than several of my friends. I realize now that it is because they were more driven, and therefore achieved more. I was always very laid back, disorganized...very much the absent minded professor.

[...................]

Here parents are busy comparing their kids state testing results, which tuition center is better and which elementary schools has the highest scores. Chess and math competitions "bragging" are normal here. Parents are already "bragging" over which preschool is better.

 

"The Harker School, the 120-year-old private school that's evolved into a science-technology powerhouse, opens its doors next month to preschoolers -- as long as their parents can afford to pay $22,000 a year.

The cost equals about 1½ years of tuition and fees at the University of California, or more than 2½ times the average annual cost of child care in the state." (link, they have a waiting list)

 

This preschool admit by IQ testing

http://www.nuevaschool.org/admissions/how-to-apply/iq-evaluation/iq-faq

these too

http://www.gateacademy.org/admissions.html

http://synapseschool.org/admissions/application-process/

 

Yep.  I just moved to your area.  Right next to a Harker school.  I'm already being drilled at the park by parents on why I homeschool (shock)...they cannot understand.  The kids can't play with my kids because they are in Marine camps, Science camps, Technology Camps, all summer long, and then after camp they come home and practice their instruments for an hour per day, and then on the weekends they have Foreign Language School on Saturdays.  I don't think they get much play time.

 

OTOH, I'm excited because there are more educational opportunities, and I'm excited because both of my children are bright/gifted and there are more kids they understand here, and my son is a techie.  We already have a camp picked out for next year for our son, and based on his programming skills they will be placing him in a group with 13-17 year olds.  We are going to start saving now, because it'll be a really fun experience for him.

 

BUT... what a hot house this area is.  sheesh.