If you knew someone who was feeling like they just didn't matter...

[Guest inoubliable]

and that nothing they did, or plan to do, or could contribute to life/society/family in any way was at all meaningful or helpful - is there anything that you could say that wouldn't just sound like some platitude or vague promise about tomorrow being another day?

[albeto]

I think all you can really do is acknowledge that their feelings are genuine, and offer sympathy. If there was something that could be said to help someone out of depression, they would have heard it by the time they're that deep.

[swellmomma]

I have recently spoken to someone feeling that way. I hope my responses to them didn't seem like platitudes etc. My response was that although it feels that way right now, it is the depression making them feel that way, not the truths of those around them. That aside from getting help to treat the depression, the next best thing is to just go through the motions of the day even if it feels like they don't matter, or that the person doesn't matter and it wouldn't be noticed if they weren't there. I have no clue if I actually helped the person feel better or worse, or if they believed anything I said (the conversation was much longer than that one line), but I sure hope they don't see it as vague promises or platitudes.

[BugsMama]

Hear them out and know their feelings are real.... if it's someone I can afford time for, I would volunteer with them. Find a place where they do matter- give back. Go to a care home, a homeless shelter, an animal shelter. Somewhere you can do something that without a doubt, matters. Knit baby blankets. Collect canned food.

 

Obviously, you'd need to make sure medical needs are met for depression and what have you- but working for others, that's something that can be DONE to help someone find a place to matter.

[Eagle]

When my friend experienced similar feelings I wrote her a letter explaining all the things about her that made me love her and why she was so special to me. I wanted her to have something tangible to hold onto that would sound like I was there with her when she hit really low points and felt alone and unappreciated.

 

[Rosie_0801]

I'd say "Oh bollocks."

 

That's not where I'd finish up, but that's where I'd start.

[Orthodox6]

I would consult a suicide prevention hotline for advice. This is a common signal that the individual is struggling with suicidal ideation. Not necessarily that he or she actively is preparing for a suicide attempt. Yes, though, that the thought very, very likely is present.

[IrishMum]

Depression is not a choice, it is a miss match in the brain, usually a chemical imbalance. You can't talk someone out of depression, they need professional help. And if they are willing the could feed their brain with fish oils, and a few other supplements that improve brain pathways.

[elegantlion]

It would depend upon the personality of the person and my relationship to them.

 

If it's a friend, I would take them out, go to a movie, have coffee, laugh a little and express my concern. I would let them know it was okay to ask for medical help and I'd go with them if necessary. Getting out of their environment for a time may be helpful too. Laughing helps too.

 

Truth is, some people are in awkward places in their lives. I know too many people who are in transition, stuck in phase and feeling stale, or simply not feeling like they're really connecting with people - that their only going through the motion and a robot could take their place and no one would notice.

 

Writers have a phrase about showing your not telling about it. Sometimes you need to show that person that they do matter without using words.

 

Another truth, is that some people feel very small in relation to everything going on in the world. Some personalities ponder their existence more than others. It's not about being important, it's about doing something that matters.

 

If personality and relationship warrant, I'd sit down and watch all 7 seasons of the current Doctor Who with them. They're more effective when compressed together in a short watching period. Doctor Who, besides everything else, is a great program that shows us each person matters on an individual level, whoever they are. And take tissues.

 

Another truth is some people, loved, consequential to others, and truly needed in peoples' lives simply don't see it, and they make the choice not to join tomorrow with the rest of the planet. Then there is a whole different level of agony for the ones left behind.

 

Some people start down the ladder in the pit of despair. Some people stop and look into the pit for a while and climb out, some linger in the depressive stage. Some need a hand to get out. Some fall off the ladder, some sink to the bottom and sit for a very long while and no one seems to notice they're there.

 

I found this blog from Hyperbole and a half on depression to be spot on. If you read through it, you'll see comment about the fish being dead. I believe we all need at least one person we can call and magically say "My fish are dead" and they'll come over and take us to a movie or to the doctor to get anti-depressants or to just sit around the dining room table and listen without judgment.

[mommymilkies]

EL, you said it perfectly.

 

 

Even if you're not a Coldplay fan (sacrilege!), this song is relevant.

[Aspasia]

"It won't always be like this. You won't always feel like this."

 

Because you won't. Things ALWAYS get better. And when they do, you look back on that dark time and you remember it well, but you are so grateful that you stuck around for the thing that has become better. Sometimes you just have to slog through the crappy part. Distraction is a wonderful thing during those times (that's where a good friend comes in to take you to a movie or to get a coffee or whatever).

[albeto]

.

[IrishMum]

It doesn't always get better. Medications don't always work. Therapy doesn't always work.

 

I was about to say the same thing.

[Dandelion]

Rather than trying to say something helpful, I would just listen. So many people never really experience being listened to, and truly heard. That in and of itself can be a real boost for someone who is feeling down.

 

Beyond that, I would look for an opportunity to involve them in something where they're helping other people in a meaningful way. If I needed help with something, I would ask them to help me. If not, I would look for a volunteer opportunity or similar (and I would ask them to join me rather than suggesting they get involved by themselves). IME nothing takes your mind off your own troubles more quickly than helping others.

[Aspasia]

I was about to say the same thing.

 

 

Sorry. It usually gets better.

[mommymilkies]

Of course it doesn't always get better. One only needs watch the news to see that one. But geez, if they don't think they matter, telling them crap will likely not get better for them probably won't help the situation. I don't think antidepressants are always necessary, either. But the can help sometimes.

[BakersDozen]

"It won't always be like this. You won't always feel like this."

No offense, but I hate it when people say this to me. When you are filled with nothing useful in your thoughts or heart, when things are just pointless and meaningless, those words mean nothing (at least that's been my experience).

 

I honestly don't know what, if anything, I would say to someone who felt like the person OP described. I wouldn't argue with them or even try to reason with them.

 

I would try to determine the heart behind the words. Are they truly down on themselves and depressed? Or are they being blunt and realistic? I have to say I feel the same way as in the OP - not in a sad, depressed kind of way but in a way that is more of, "Well, I'm pretty much nothing and no one on this planet or in the huge span of history; someday I will die and that will be it. No big ripple left by me." In other words, I don't feel that my life has a lot of meaning or helpfulness in the grand scheme of things. And I'm totally OK with that. My life is what it is and I expect nothing more. I do what I do and know it's not much but it is what it is. No big deal.

 

So for me if I heard of someone with the same attitude I wouldn't make anything of it as it wouldn't surprise me at all nor would it concern me greatly.

 

Guess it's a good thing I'm not a counselor or a shrink. :)

[IrishMum]

Of course it doesn't always get better. One only needs watch the news to see that one. But geez, if they don't think they matter, telling them crap will likely not get better for them probably won't help the situation. I don't think antidepressants are always necessary, either. But the can help sometimes.

 

No one said to tell them they won't get better! What you don't do is lie to them, don't set them up to feel like failures when things don't get better. Be there for them, show love, tell them you will listen, offer to help find the right treatment, and don't pretend you understand if you don't. Most of us do not understand how they feel.

 

This is an area very close to my heart. My brother suffered with depression since his teen years. He attempted suicide twice, and died at 29. Tread carefully with depression. It is a REAL disease that doesn't just need you to 'snap out of it', and it often doesn't get better with out some form of intervention, and even then it might not.

[IrishMum]

DP

[A home for their hearts]

 

Some people start down the ladder in the pit of despair. Some people stop and look into the pit for a while and climb out, some linger in the depressive stage. Some need a hand to get out. Some fall off the ladder, some sink to the bottom and sit for a very long while and no one seems to notice they're there.

 

 

It's hard to know what to say or do in a moment like this. I have been there on and off for years. The part that I italicized is where I've been on and off for the past 17 years. Depression runs in my family. My mother has attempted suicide more times than I care to remember. I attempted it when I was 18. I've had very little therapy over the years, none of it was very useful. I was on meds for awhile after my suicide attempt but when I became pregnant when dd13 I went off of them and never got back on them. I'm pregnant with my 6th child now and lately have been feeling like I'm sitting at the bottom of the pit and nobody knows I'm there. It's not really their fault, I'm good at putting on a happy face and faking it around people.

 

Like other pp have said, I think the most important thing is to be there for your friend. Really listen and acknowledge their feelings. Don't just brush them off with this will pass crap. Maybe it will, maybe it won't; it's not the greatest thing to hear when you are that depressed.

[Chris in VA]

Coming alongside someone with depression is a holy thing, to me. It's not a balanced relationship, and the caring one can't be all about that, or they can do more damage.

I say that as someone who has experience severe depression from both sides.

 

I do see myself trying to go tenderly logical--"Well, Dear One, your distress over this is having an effect on ME, and you aren't even aware of it. So you are even more powerful and influential than you think. Now would you like me to help you find some ways to feel better, or do you just need me to listen?"

[Aspasia]

.

[albeto]

Coming alongside someone with depression is a holy thing, to me.

 

Can you explain this?

[Melissa in Australia]

I'd say "Oh bollocks."

 

That's not where I'd finish up, but that's where I'd start.

 

No you wouldn't. You would ( and did) drive all day and night and bring them a box of Tim-tams. You would ( and did) inspire the person to believe that tomorrow will be better just by your actions..

[texasmama]

Haven't read the replies so please excuse if this is a repeat.

 

Hopelessness is the strongest predictor for suicide. If I had knew someone expressing these thoughts to me, I would do a risk assessment for suicide. I would ask openly and directly about their thoughts/plans of harming themselves. Then I would act accordingly if the answers I got revealed a specific and achievable plan for suicide. If I didn't think the danger was emergent, I would assist the person in making a doctor's appointment to assess for antidepressants and a counseling referral.

 

I've had to do just this quite a bit, actually.

[Tita Gidge]

As the responses in this thread show, what is "right" will vary from person to person - and maybe even relationship to relationship.

 

Sometimes the best things to say are spoken by actions and not words. Being there, literally and figuratively. Not allowing them to isolate, but not forcing them out of their pit either. Just little reminders by virtue of presence (in-person if able, but calls/emails/cards/etc. if necessary) that someone DOES care, someone DOES see value in you, someone DOES notice, someone DOES still see the light outside of the pit and is going to be there to lift you up into it when you are ready. If you ever become ready. These people forget there's light out there, they need to be shown and convinced there truly is light (even dim light) beyond the pit.

 

Sometimes the best things to say are the things you know they'd tell you if roles were reversed. These are the people who know there's light still out there, they're just walking under a huge storm cloud. They may be motivated (if sometimes hurt) by assertive reminders that this is a literal depression - a pothole in the road of life. The focus isn't on finding the light because the person knows it exists; the focus is on encouraging them to take off the sunglasses so they can return to it.

 

There are different kinds of depression, and each kind is further separated by how each distinct personality is affected by it. There can be no best or worst way to approach this person, but the one right thing to do in any case is to be a continued presence. To not hold them to any relationship expectations, to see them almost as an emotional infant who is 99% reliant upon the outside world to acknowledge and meet emotional needs. When you can't trust yourself and your own feelings, you rely on the outside world to show you you're wrong. Not always consciously. When the outside world proves or agrees with your assessment of yourself, well - the pit naturally grows deeper.

 

They'll try to justify away the reasons you're there (you HAVE to care b/c you're a parent/spouse/child/etc.; you wouldn't care if you knew what an awful person they are/things they've done; etc.) and all you can do is to quietly but assuredly try to show them they're wrong. It will only help those open to help, but I feel pretty certain given my professional experience that even those who can't be saved from their depressions still feel the presence; it's just that their justifications won out. It's not that they didn't feel and experience that outpouring of love.

 

It truly does depend on the person, the relationship, and the nature of the depression.

 

How heartbreaking to go through it, and worse - to watch it from the outside and to feel so helpless :(

[albeto]

They'll try to justify away the reasons you're there (you HAVE to care b/c you're a parent/spouse/child/etc.; you wouldn't care if you knew what an awful person they are/things they've done; etc.) and all you can do is to quietly but assuredly try to show them they're wrong. It will only help those open to help, but I feel pretty certain given my professional experience that even those who can't be saved from their depressions still feel the presence; it's just that their justifications won out. It's not that they didn't feel and experience that outpouring of love.

 

Can you please explain this? It sounds as if you're saying that people affected by depression who don't get out of it don't really want the help. Also, what do you mean by the statement, "even those who can't be saved from their depression still feel the presence." What "presence" do they still feel?

 

I'd be curious to know what kind of professional experience do you have.

[Audrey]

There's nothing you can say to "fix" someone else. It has to come from them -- either they seek help or find a solution. You can be there for them, though, but you've got to know that you're neither able to "fix" them, nor responsible for "fixing" them.

[dancer67]

I wasn't going to chime in on this. But I have decided that I should. I am that person. The OP could be referring to me. Because that feeling her friend is expressing, is someone who has been depressed for a very long time. Yes, I have been there. Yes, I tried to end it. When you are at the point of feeling so despondent, worthless, loss of all hope, and thinking that the people around you are better off without you there, nobody is going to talk you out of it. Depression(and anxiety which goes hand in hand), is not a CHOICE. Not any more then having cancer is a choice. I had talked about my feelings with people(Family, spouse, therapists.) But honestly. I think that most thought nothing of it. They were just tired of listening to me. Your mind is telling you, convincing you, that the world would be a better place without you in it. And that you just want to close your eyes, and finally be at peace. You are not being rational. Therefore, nothing you can say is going to make sense, or sound rational to that person. Telling someone that tomorrow is going to be better, or you have a bright future, or that there are so many people around you that love you, is just going to make things so much worse. Because in your mind, you are thinking "This person telling me this is full of BS". Which makes your mind even more determined that you are right in your decision. What can you do? I wish someone would have just listened to me, and put me in the car. No, dragged me into the car kicking and screaming to the nearest ER. My advice? Don't offer advice. If you do not feel equipped to get this person to the nearest hospital, call the police. Calling the suicide hotline for this person will not help. Take it from me. BTDT. I am still struggling to this day. But with the right therapy, medications, and SUPPORT(which I have to stress is very important, but I am not going to lie. It is not easy dealing with someone who struggles with depression and anxiety), I have my good days, and I have my bad days. I am hoping for more good then bad at some point in my future. This is a very personal story. I may go back and erase this at a later time. So please do not quote me. Ask me questions if you would like. Unfortunately, I have family who loves to stalk me over here, and read things and try to use them against me. I hope it all works out for your friend.

[gardenmom5]

dancer - have you also worked with a naturopath who is familiar with the methylation pathway? there are resistant forms of depression that respond to an addition of methyltetrahydrofolate to go along with anti-depressants. one cause is a genetic mutation that has an adverse affect with how particular neurotransmitters/enzymes/basic nutrients are absorbed, processed, and utilized by the brain. it leaves things tremendously out of whack and no amount of talking will make it better. one thing that makes me nuts. people who think those dealing with depression can just talk to someone and everything will be better. would they say that to someone with an actual physical injury that they can see? out of whack brain chemistry is just as real, even if few doctors do adequate testing to see what the chemistry actually is.

[Rebecca VA]

Oh, gosh, this is so close to home. My son is going through this. All weekend my husband and I have been tag-teaming spending time with him. He is in very, very bad shape. Part of it is a poor reaction to one of his medications, but he is absolutely hopeless and helpless now. At dinner tonight I held his hand and told him that I'd be calling a psychiatrist in the morning for him (long story behind that), we'd get him hospitalized if that's what needed to happen, we are looking for a house or condo to buy near our house just for him, to just be patient, we love him, he is part of our family and so, so important to us. He knows he can call us at any time. The things I was telling him were very simple, and I spoke slowly. He is in such a bad state.

 

For someone who's not quite that bad off -- he is almost extreme -- I would give them simple tasks to do. Could they help prepare part of a meal for a sick person? Could they help fold socks? Nothing too hard, just easy tasks that really help someone else. And when the person does complete the tasks, praise them lavishly, but gently.

 

Call the person every day. Just to say hi or share some fun gossip.

[dancer67]

Gardenmom, No I actually have not. Not for lack of trying though. There just aren't any around here who deal with that. If there were, I would be knocking on their front door. Unfortunately, I have to be on medications. For now. It is not something I want to be on for the rest of my life. And I understand what you are saying, that one thing that drives you crazy is that people think you can talk to someone with severe depression/anxiety and make it all go away. It just doesn't work that way. For many people, it is a real chemical imbalance. Many hereditary(my mother is bipolar, and a manic depressive). I do not choose to be this way. But for some people, they feel I use it as a crutch to because sometimes my behavior does not suit their expectations. I don't mean to be the way that I am. I drove many people away. It can cause divorces and problems with your children. It just makes you even more depressed and anxious when that happens. You want it to stop, but you don't know how to stop it. It is a long, long, long process. And something you have to work at it every.single.solitary.second. of the day. I wouldn't wish it upon anybody.

[dancer67]

Oh, gosh, this is so close to home. My son is going through this. All weekend my husband and I have been tag-teaming spending time with him. He is in very, very bad shape. Part of it is a poor reaction to one of his medications, but he is absolutely hopeless and helpless now. At dinner tonight I held his hand and told him that I'd be calling a psychiatrist in the morning for him (long story behind that), we'd get him hospitalized if that's what needed to happen, we are looking for a house or condo to buy near our house just for him, to just be patient, we love him, he is part of our family and so, so important to us. He knows he can call us at any time. The things I was telling him were very simple, and I spoke slowly. He is in such a bad state.

 

For someone who's not quite that bad off -- he is almost extreme -- I would give them simple tasks to do. Could they help prepare part of a meal for a sick person? Could they help fold socks? Nothing too hard, just easy tasks that really help someone else. And when the person does complete the tasks, praise them lavishly, but gently.

 

Call the person every day. Just to say hi or share some fun gossip.

Rebecca, I am very sorry you are going through this with your son. But I want to tell you that I am so glad to read that you are standing behind him, and reassuring him that you will do whatever it takes to help him. And stick by that promise to him whatever you do. I was told by someone that they would love me no matter what. And that person abandoned me. I yelled and screamed at her. She made me so angry at times. I understand that it is difficult to be around someone like me. But she was one person I thought would stand by me no matter what. And, she is a nurse. Which makes it even worse. I truly hope that your son can get the help he needs. And ((hugs)) to you.

[Dory]

Stop trying to fix it. As someone who has a lot of struggles with those sort of thoughts, people stepping in to 'fix' it make me feel worse.

Just listen, be there, show them with your actions that you see them as someone who is worth your time and effort. When you do things with them make sure you verbalized their strong and good points, not going overboard, just complimenting them on it. Even if they reject the compliment every time, believe me, it still feels good.

 

And please don't tell them it will get better. That's really annoying from my experience. Often it's not that they don't know in the back of their mind that it will get better, but in the bottom of that black hole, it just feels like it's too much and trying to push through those heavy feelings to the other side is too much.

 

Good luck, and again, just give her your ear and your time.

[PrairieSong]

I lost my sister to suicide. You can't talk someone out of depression. They can't just snap out of it. They need medical attention. My sister had a few years of therapy and medication. She had a husband who adored her, a loving family, good friends, the job she wanted, but none of that was enough. She was trapped in a black hole of utter despair and one day it was all too much and she stayed home from work and took her own life.

 

Please don't wait. Get your friend help NOW.

[PrairieSong]

Dancer67, I am so sorry you are struggling with this and I hope you get all the help and support you need.

[mommymilkies]

No one said to tell them they won't get better! What you don't do is lie to them, don't set them up to feel like failures when things don't get better. Be there for them, show love, tell them you will listen, offer to help find the right treatment, and don't pretend you understand if you don't. Most of us do not understand how they feel.

 

This is an area very close to my heart. My brother suffered with depression since his teen years. He attempted suicide twice, and died at 29. Tread carefully with depression. It is a REAL disease that doesn't just need you to 'snap out of it', and it often doesn't get better with out some form of intervention, and even then it might not.

 

I never said to lie to them, but going straight off and saying that meds won't work and that it won't get better might not help, either! Of course it won't be all roses and sunshine, but depressing someone this depressed, won't work out well.

[elegantlion]

((hugs)) to those of you hurting with depression and to those who have been hurt through its effects. My thoughts are with you all.

[readinmom]

Besides all the other advice, let he/she know they are not invisible. It's not enough just to say you matter, but to acknowledge that they are seen and heard, and that they bless your life daily.

[albeto]

I never said to lie to them, but going straight off and saying that meds won't work and that it won't get better might not help, either! Of course it won't be all roses and sunshine, but depressing someone this depressed, won't work out well.

 

 

I think there might be a misunderstanding here. No one suggested telling a person suffering with depression that medication and therapy won't work, but not to suggest it will get better because "things always get better."

[IrishMum]

 

I think there might be a misunderstanding here. No one suggested telling a person suffering with depression that medication and therapy won't work, but not to suggest it will get better because "things always get better."

 

 

Exactly! Meds and therapy often work, many, many times.

 

My heart goes out to anyone here who is suffering or experiencing this terrible disease. The more aware we all are on its effects the better.

[PrairieSong]

Someone who has suffered from depression, and has been suicidal, shared this with me.

 

http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2013/05/depression-part-two.html

[Chris in VA]

Albeto, I am using the jargon of my faith to share my perspective. Holy means set apart. It it not an ordinary relationship, to be with a person who is severely depressed, in that there is no give and take, no reciprocity coming from the depressed person (or, little if any, since absolutes are tricky). I think that people who can be present, like a pp said, either in person or thru other supportive ways, are doing out-of-the-ordinary work.

 

I think we are all saying various degrees of the same thing. I guess I just wanted to recognize and show appreciation for those who come alongside the hurting.

 

When I was suicidal, my artist brother-in-law sent me a note upon which he had made a painted hand print. We did not have a very close relationship, but he was willing to express support for me in his creative and dear way-- for me, receiving that note was a holy moment, as so many turned away, uncomfortable enough to even offer an acknowledgement of the pain I was in.

[Aspasia]

I think for a bunch of people talking about accepting people's feelings, acknowledging that you don't know how other people feel, and generally just promoting sympathy and understanding, many of you are being really insensitive in your mockery of my experience with depression. Just because I have been helped by something you find "annoying" doesn't mean that I haven't experienced some of these very dark, very real feelings. You don't know me or my medical or psychological history, and yet, you're assuming I have no comprehension of the gravity of real depression. It seems like you all understand the necessity of treading lightly with feelings of depression...except with strangers on the internet.

 

For most of us, it does get better, even if it gets worse again...and then it gets better...and then it gets worse, etc. Being able to acknowledge that cycle CAN help people hang on a little longer until maybe one day they're lying on a kitchen floor laughing at a corn kernel. That blog post is actually a great example of things getting better (not perfect, not "fixed", but better) for no apparent reason. Sure, the medication probably helped, but why were things better at that moment? The author acknowledges that she has absolutely no idea. But she did emerge, if only a little bit, from her dark fog. I'm not suggesting that we flippantly throw these words out there, but they are true. And for some people, they can be helpful, especially if accompanied by a personal story where things really were that dark but really did get better. I heard them from a person with whom I had shared my feelings quite a bit, and she happens to have a very similar disposition to mine and has experienced similar feelings, so it meant something coming from her. And she was right.

 

I am heartbroken for those of you who have lost loved ones to suicide, but you are not the authorities on depression or my feelings, or anyone else's.

 

Please stop putting my words in mocking quotation marks or calling them "this will pass crap". It is hurtful, and the very antithesis of how you're suggesting we handle other people and their feelings/experiences.

[mommymilkies]

Someone who has suffered from depression, and has been suicidal, shared this with me.

 

http://hyperboleanda...n-part-two.html

 

This is really one of the best ever. It nails it, it really does.

 

There have been some past threads that were very anti-meds and a little shaming to those who try. So some of us carry baggage from being told we'll be fine if we just talk to someone, or take fish oil, or xyz. Meds aren't perfect. I don't even take Tylenol unless it's truly vital, but I really think on this thread, in particular, we avoid the shaming aspect, and that includes saying that it will all be roses. It's really so individual, what helps one person might just hurt another.

[Maus]

OP, be a "move a body" friend. Real connection helps.

 

I hope I can do this. It's still pretty fresh, but at least all of you are "out there" and not here, and won't see me if I start to bawl, again.

 

All the meds and therapists in the world won't make a difference unless the person comes to believe that change is possible. Then, and only then, it is possible to recover.

 

My DH started an anti-depressant one year ago last Friday. A lot of things seemed to get better. He started losing weight because he wasn't self-medicating with food; he dropped other bad, self-medicating habits, etc. Despite all that, because stress happens, and because he'd never addressed what was going on inside his head, four months ago, he had a serious bout of depression. He concluded that the meds weren't helping, that he'd never get better, and that he might as well quit. He quit his anti-depressant and he quit his diabetes meds, blood pressure meds, etc. He assumed that he'd slip into a nice, quiet diabetic coma and that would be it.

 

Well, he's lost weight and his diabetes isn't as bad, so that didn't happen. Instead, he started having convulsions from quitting the anti-depressant cold-turkey and collapsed on our kitchen floor. I called 911, he ended up in the hospital, and they weren't going to release him because that's "passive suicide." (Where, rather than actively trying to kill yourself, you put yourself in harm's way.) Because I had realized something bad was happening and had insisted earlier that same day that he make an appointment with a therapist, they did agree to release him. He was pretty much on suicide watch from the day of release until his appointment four days later. Bless our move-a-body friends, who came over and connected with him!

 

The therapist was a really good match. That's key, because DH did quickly come to believe that change was possible. That had to come from inside DH before it really helped.

 

He is now on a second anti-depressant in addition to the first. He sees his therapist regularly, and has learned to change his self-talk. He is doing really well. We still have bad days, but less and less frequently.

 

In contrast, DH's niece, who was admitted to a psych ward almost the same time, does not believe that change is possible, and she is not recovering.

 

So, the belief that change is possible has to come from the inside.

 

From the outside, the only helpful thing is to truly be present for your friend. No judgement, no conditions. We were surprised at who made these connections for DH. Some of his friends weren't capable of it. Some of the people who connected hadn't previously been more than acquaintances. The key thing was that they were able to ask, "How are you doing?" and really mean it. They were prepared to hear that things were not good, and DH felt it was safe to tell them. They didn't really say anything beyond, "I'm here, man," but they didn't get uncomfortable, and they didn't walk away (literally or figuratively).

 

A couple of people did the same for me to help me cope.

[gardenmom5]

 

Exactly! Meds and therapy often work, many, many times.

 

My heart goes out to anyone here who is suffering or experiencing this terrible disease. The more aware we all are on its effects the better.

meds can be a lifesaver - but sometimes they aren't enough. my family has a genetic mutation that is resistant to meds. treating that has been required to make meds effective.

[gardenmom5]

So, the belief that change is possible has to come from the inside.

 

From the outside, the only helpful thing is to truly be present for your friend. No judgement, no conditions. We were surprised at who made these connections for DH. Some of his friends weren't capable of it. Some of the people who connected hadn't previously been more than acquaintances. The key thing was that they were able to ask, "How are you doing?" and really mean it. They were prepared to hear that things were not good, and DH felt it was safe to tell them. They didn't really say anything beyond, "I'm here, man," but they didn't get uncomfortable, and they didn't walk away (literally or figuratively).

 

A couple of people did the same for me to help me cope.

bingo. and yes to the highlighted. many people don't want to hear the reality of what is going on. bless those who will listen, and not want to run away screaming.

[Tita Gidge]

Can you please explain this? It sounds as if you're saying that people affected by depression who don't get out of it don't really want the help. Also, what do you mean by the statement, "even those who can't be saved from their depression still feel the presence." What "presence" do they still feel?

 

I'd be curious to know what kind of professional experience do you have.

 

 

Curiosity killed the cat ;)

 

By presence I meant a literal presence; however I'm able to be present to that person, if they lose or are losing their battle with depression I believe they still feel my presence - that my being there is valid and helpful, even if not enough to lift them up.

 

I don't think that's what I was saying, but there's a shard of truth to that. It's true that no one can be helped unless they: see the need for help, desire to be helped, and/or believe a trade-off exists for seeking help. But to sum it up as "[those] affected by depression who don't get out of it don't really want the help" grossly oversimplifies a complex, multi-faceted situation.

 

I think Maus' post (#49) offers good insight. Here's my expounding of that, in answering your question:

 

Sure, there are those who will prefer or choose to stay depressed. It might be all they’re familiar with due to dysfunctional relationships; it might be worth the creative outputs the depression inspires; it might even be something they feel they deserve as some sort of self-penance for any number of wrongs committed, real or perceived. I don't think those make up the majority, nor were they who I was speaking of, but sure - they exist. And they, they'll stay in a depressed state because they‘ve determined that the trade-off is worth it. This determination may be made by choice or by circumstance, by force or submission, in lucidity or fog; but that’s neither here nor there. It’s no less painful an experience, but it does change the framework from which they view it. Their depression becomes too big a part of their identity, and it begins to consume them.

 

Liken it to the swimmer in a riptide who comes to that point where survival skills and desire can no longer save him from the pull of his increasingly dead weight. Watching from the shore we see him struggling, and then appear to just give up. How can they just give up? we wonder, failing to recognize that there is always a point of no return – regardless of how we got there, regardless of how much we want to survive, regardless of how strong we (think we) are, and regardless of how supportive the people at the shoreline are. The depressed may not appear to want help, but appearances are deceiving – not just to us, but even to them. What may appear to be giving up may really be someone drowning under the deadening weight of their depression.

 

So yes, it’s a matter of them not wanting help – but no, it’s not as simple as that statement implies.

 

Here are some hypothetical situations in which a depressed person may not appear to want help:

 

He may fall to cultural ideas that may have him feeling he’s a failure to need to help. (Those being family culture, ethnic culture, social culture and those norms to which he identifies. In an effort to live up to his social norms he’s denying his situation warrants help.) He may not feel there’s any help out there for him. (Perhaps he’s tried various treatments, to no avail. None of the therapists “get him†and none of the meds last, if they work at all.) He may not feel worthy of help (he’s already convinced himself he’s insignificant to the world, why pay for or waste the time of others trying to get better – just so he can continue to be insignificant.) He may feel his depression is a cross to bear, for any reason real or perceived, shared or inferred, true or untrue. (To seek help nullifies the attempt to carry this cross.)

 

There are more, but this post is long enough ;) and so many other posters have shared much more insightful, painful yet hopeful words. I'll defer to them for the rest of the thread.

[Mommy22alyns]

I'd say "Oh bollocks."

 

That's not where I'd finish up, but that's where I'd start.

 

 

Nice.