Seriously Paula Deen?

[gingersmom]

Another reason for me not to like her-

 

http://xfinity-blogs.cim.comcast.net/blogs/tv/2013/06/19/paula-deen-says-she-used-racial-slur-but-doesnt-tolerate-hate/

 

This part really bothered me-

 

“That’s kind of hard,†Deen said. “Most jokes are about Jewish people, rednecks, black folks. … They usually target, though, a group. Gays or straights, black, redneck, you know, I just don’t know — I just don’t know what to say. I can’t, myself, determine what offends another person.â€

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

Another reason for me not to like her-

 

http://xfinity-blogs...-tolerate-hate/

 

This part really bothered me-

 

“That’s kind of hard,†Deen said. “Most jokes are about Jewish people, rednecks, black folks. … They usually target, though, a group. Gays or straights, black, redneck, you know, I just don’t know — I just don’t know what to say. I can’t, myself, determine what offends another person.â€

 

Oh my word. The article didn't bother me too much--I mean, attitudes HAVE changed a lot, and she is from the South, where change has been slower in coming, etc.--until I got here:

 

 

“The whole entire wait staff was middle-aged black men, and they had on beautiful white jackets with a black bow tie. I mean, it was really impressive,†Deen said. “And I remember saying I would love to have servers like that, I said, but I would be afraid that someone would misinterpret (it).â€

Asked if she used the N-word to describe those waiters, Deen replied: “No, because that’s not what these men were. They were professional black men doing a fabulous job.â€

[Shahrazad]

Well, I know on another thread we said that racists don't usually come out and say 'I'm a racist' and that it usually manifests in little *wink wink* jokes or comments here and there but I'm pretty sure this is pretty close to coming out and saying 'I'm a racist'. Her 'defense' is pretty much admitting she has said/does say those things and that she's 'not sure' if the 'N word' is mean. What the actual heck?!

[Shahrazad]

ILiveInFlipFlops, I read in another article the extension of the 'black men wearing white uniforms':

 

When asked what she thought about casting black men as slaves at a wedding, Deen said that a restaurant she went to with her husband inspired the idea: “The whole entire waiter staff was middle-aged black men, and they had on beautiful white jackets with a black bow tie.â€

“I mean, it was really impressive. That restaurant represented a certain era in America … after the Civil War, during the Civil War, before the Civil War … It was not only black men, it was black women … I would say they were slaves.â€

[HRAAB]

Growing up, I rarely heard that word. One of the first times I ever heard it was in visiting some friends in Chicago. I was so shocked that a friend of my father's would use that word. I still cringe if I ever hear it. I would rather any swear word from my girls rather than that.

 

Not impressed that she can't figure out if it's mean or not to use the 'n' word in a joke.

[gingersmom]

ILiveInFlipFlops, I read in another article the extension of the 'black men wearing white uniforms':

 

It just gets worse and worse.

[HRAAB]

ILiveInFlipFlops, I read in another article the extension of the 'black men wearing white uniforms':

 

Oh my goodness. Is she saying it was impressive that they reminded her slaves? She really doesn't know when to shut up.

[Hoot]

I'm pretty sure the hair dye and deep fried butter LONG AGO killed any brain cells that woman may have ever had. I don't think she made a single intelligent comment in that entire article.

[Mrs Mungo]

ILiveInFlipFlops, I read in another article the extension of the 'black men wearing white uniforms':

 

Woah, my jaw literally dropped open.

[Alte Veste Academy]

I am going to try really hard to look on the bright side. Maybe Food TV will not only cancel her show but not play any reruns! When I hear that laugh, the channel can't change fast enough here...

[Alte Veste Academy]

Oh my word. The article didn't bother me too much--I mean, attitudes HAVE changed a lot, and she is from the South, where change has been slower in coming, etc.--until I got here:

 

 

 

I had the exact same reaction. The whole time I was reading, I kept thinking you should really shut up now, and when I got to that part, my jaw dropped too. At 66 years old and from the South, I am not surprised at her attitude, which was pervasive in her time and locale. I am, however, surprised that she is still so ignorant and ignorant of her ignorance!

[*Lulu*]

 

 

I had the exact same reaction. The whole time I was reading, I kept thinking you should really shut up now, and when I got to that part, my jaw dropped too. At 66 years old and from the South, I am not surprised at her attitude, which was pervasive in her time and locale. I am, however, surprised that she is still so ignorant and ignorant of her ignorance!

 

Exactly.

 

The more she talked the deeper the hole became until all of a sudden we were falling down a rabbit hole.

[Slartibartfast]

......

[LibraryLover]

At least we know where she stands. She was honest. That's something.

[happymomofboys]

Well, I know on another thread we said that racists don't usually come out and say 'I'm a racist' and that it usually manifests in little *wink wink* jokes or comments here and there but I'm pretty sure this is pretty close to coming out and saying 'I'm a racist'. Her 'defense' is pretty much admitting she has said/does say those things and that she's 'not sure' if the 'N word' is mean. What the actual heck?!

 

I do not use the 'N word' in any circumstances, ever. I do not seek to justify its use or offer any kind of support for Paula Deen. However, having grown up in and around the Savannah area, I have to say that the article did not surprise me at all. I believe that she doesn't know whether the 'N word' in a joke is offensive because she was probably raised by someone like my father who said that the word referred to behavior and not skin color (though he never used it for anyone who wasn't black). She has lived through changes in what is and isn't socially acceptable to say and yet she still hears jokes being told on comedy stages and in movies by black people who still use that word. She hears lyrics to songs as cars pass on the street that still use that word. She also hears jokes about other minority groups and doesn't understand why some jokes are acceptable and some aren't (hint: none of them are, Paula). And then, she is quite literally surrounded by a certain class of people who "really like" their black employees, their Jewish doctor, their Hispanic housekeeper, their gay hairstylist, and the Asian lady who does their nails, so of course they don't mean them when they make jokes, use derogatory words, or talk in generalities about groups of people. They're not racists and bigots after all. /s It seems to be a product of the slow-to-change culture of the South. Hopefully, my generation and those who come after will continue to grow out of it.

[Kathryn]

I had the exact same reaction. The whole time I was reading, I kept thinking you should really shut up now, and when I got to that part, my jaw dropped too. At 66 years old and from the South, I am not surprised at her attitude, which was pervasive in her time and locale. I am, however, surprised that she is still so ignorant and ignorant of her ignorance!

 

That's exactly how I felt. I'm from the South also and I certainly know the attitude and am not surprised. What did surprise me is that she would say such things "on the record."

 

 

I do not use the 'N word' in any circumstances, ever. I do not seek to justify its use or offer any kind of support for Paula Deen. However, having grown up in and around the Savannah area, I have to say that the article did not surprise me at all. I believe that she doesn't know whether the 'N word' in a joke is offensive because she was probably raised by someone like my father who said that the word referred to behavior and not skin color (though he never used it for anyone who wasn't black). She has lived through changes in what is and isn't socially acceptable to say and yet she still hears jokes being told on comedy stages and in movies by black people who still use that word. She hears lyrics to songs as cars pass on the street that still use that word. She also hears jokes about other minority groups and doesn't understand why some jokes are acceptable and some aren't (hint: none of them are, Paula). And then, she is quite literally surrounded by a certain class of people who "really like" their black employees, their Jewish doctor, their Hispanic housekeeper, their gay hairstylist, and the Asian lady who does their nails, so of course they don't mean them when they make jokes, use derogatory words, or talk in generalities about groups of people. They're not racists and bigots after all. /s It's seems to be a product of the slow-to-change culture of the South. Hopefully, my generation and those who come after will continue to grow out of it.

 

Nope. Don't buy it one bit. I've known plenty of older white folks around here, both "redneck" and "high class" who make such jokes or use the "N" word when they believe themselves to be in sympathetic company. None of them would dare do it around those to whom the jokes refer, nor would they ever say the "N" word around a black person. They know perfectly well it's not acceptable and they know when to curb their mouths, senility notwithstanding.

[happymomofboys]

Nope. Don't buy it one bit. I've known plenty of older white folks around here, both "redneck" and "high class" who make such jokes or use the "N" word when they believe themselves to be in sympathetic company. None of them would dare do it around those to whom the jokes refer, nor would they ever say the "N" word around a black person. They know perfectly well it's not acceptable and they know when to curb their mouths, senility notwithstanding.

 

Oh, I agree. I don't think they would ever say it in front of someone whom the jokes could be viewed as referencing, but I still don't think they see at as meanness. Because in their mind, they mean some other black/Jewish/Hispanic/Asian/gay person who does embody the essence of the joke. Of course they're wrong, but I know that my father died believing he wasn't a racist and he most definitely was, and the things she said in the article sounded just like him and dozens of others I've heard while living in that area.

[nmoira]

That's exactly how I felt. I'm from the South also and I certainly know the attitude and am not surprised. What did surprise me is that she would say such things "on the record."

 

It made me wonder if there's something more substantial than we know going on with her heath that she's losing her "public face" filter.

[Danestress]

That's exactly how I felt. I'm from the South also and I certainly know the attitude and am not surprised. What did surprise me is that she would say such things "on the record."

 

 

 

She was being deposed. She had no choice but to answer the questions honestly. And because it is a case involving racial discrimination, I'm sure she knows that they probably are talking to everyone who ever heard her say something racist. So if she lied, that would come back to her. She still could have said less, though. But she likes to talk:)

 

I never watch cooking shows, but this lady sounds like a piece of work. And I don't particularly feel her time and place is an excuse for her craziness. She came of age during the civil rights movement. She was 14 when Martin Luther King Jr. came to town. I heard all about that when I lived and worked in Albany Ga. It was big news.

 

She had plenty of opportunities to think about and examine her own views. I understand that someone her age from Albany might have been exposed to a lot of racial prejudice, but .... seriously - the thought dressing black men as house slaves would be great for a wedding reception. That doesn't even seem sane.

[StaceyinLA]

Well I am certainly not going to defend Paula Deen because I haven't ever been able to tolerate her for a minute. However, I will say that I think attitudes in the south are considerably different than the rest of the country, and I don't think it is just because the whites in the area are more prejudice. It is also because there are largely different classes of blacks AND whites in the south compared to other places, and sometimes it is difficult not to be frustrated with the behaviors and attitudes. I don't condone the use of the "n-word," and I certainly don't condone any of the nonsense that she was spouting with reference to slaves and the like, but I KNOW my attitude is affected by the things I see in the area in which I live. It is a constant struggle to fight against stereotypes and see beyond that, especially when you are surrounded with the negative behaviors at every turn.

[FaithManor]

:huh: :ack2:

 

Yikes, the last part about the waitstaff and the all white suits just sent my personal opinion of her over the edge. I didn't have much of an opinion before, but now...YOWZA!

 

Faith

[LucyStoner]

Lame. Lame jokes. Lame excuses. Lame lack of self education. Lame.

 

My grandfather was a born in 1909 in east Texas. He was most certainly racist. He, however, did not stay that way. He changed. By being a first hand observer to the civil rights era. By seeing some of his kids date interracially (despite his then strong disapproval). By accepting his son's black step/adoptive son as his grandson. By seeing some of his grandkids marry interracially. By staying up on the times and not using age as an excuse. He's been dead a decade now. This makes me skeptical of excusing someone's obliviousness to racism and discrimination based on their age. Maybe in 1970. Not 40+ years later.

[Kim in Appalachia]

I read the article earlier today. It's was shocking and so sad. I kept thinking that maybe she has dementia?? I think she may be done for.

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

Well I am certainly not going to defend Paula Deen because I haven't ever been able to tolerate her for a minute. However, I will say that I think attitudes in the south are considerably different than the rest of the country, and I don't think it is just because the whites in the area are more prejudice. It is also because there are largely different classes of blacks AND whites in the south compared to other places, and sometimes it is difficult not to be frustrated with the behaviors and attitudes. I don't condone the use of the "n-word," and I certainly don't condone any of the nonsense that she was spouting with reference to slaves and the like, but I KNOW my attitude is affected by the things I see in the area in which I live. It is a constant struggle to fight against stereotypes and see beyond that, especially when you are surrounded with the negative behaviors at every turn.

 

Are you saying that it's understandable that there is more racism in the south because the behavior of black people in the south is somehow worse than that of black people in the north? And is that somehow implying that there are no people of any other color or ethnicity that display poor behavior? And that the fact that racism is more pervasive in the south has nothing to do with the history of the southern states?

[Lilaclady]

It is really sad. I wonder what the manager who is filling the lawsuit had gone through.

[MomtoCandJ]

All I have to say is ignorance is bliss. Having worked with the public in rural Georgia, I have used the n- word not as a racial slur but as an expression of their ignorance (quite frankly I mumbled that word more towards white people then black). I'm not particularly proud of that but sometimes there are no other words to express something. Oh and I'm a Yankee. I have lots of stories of such ignorance.

[*Lulu*]

 

 

Are you saying that it's understandable that there is more racism in the south because the behavior of black people in the south is somehow worse than that of black people in the north? And is that somehow implying that there are no people of any other color or ethnicity that display poor behavior? And that the fact that racism is more pervasive in the south has nothing to do with the history of the southern states?

 

 

What I think she is saying is that there are socioeconomic issues that come into play in the South in populations of all races that make the us/them about much more than just race.

 

Growing up in the South it was understood that the black people living in neighborhood A were classier than the the black people living in neighborhood B and that both of those groups were preferable to the white people living in neighborhood C.

 

My parents live in the same house I grew up in and most of the neighborhoods in my home town are less broken along color lines than they were growing up. I still hear the same neighborhoods spoken of in the same way, but they are not one block of color anymore.

 

FWIW, the subtle, "I am not a racist because I speak nicely to the faces of the colored girls at the store" racism is still alive and well. I see it less in my generation, but it is still there. I have high hopes that my children's generation will see it finally put to rest.

 

 

 

ETA- I used "colored" above because it is the word I still hear used in this sort of situation; although it is happily being heard less frequently. (It is possible it is just being used less frequently in my presence though, since I tend to share my opinions when people spew ignorance in front of my children.)

[Belacqua]

:huh: :ack2:

 

Yikes, the last part about the waitstaff and the all white suits just sent my personal opinion of her over the edge. I didn't have much of an opinion before, but now...YOWZA!

 

Faith

 

 

And, sadly, it isn't her own personal brand of cuckoopants. My neighbor wanted to throw her own 40th birthday party with an antebellum south theme. And she wanted to hire all African American catering staff. Failing that, she figured she could just ask the others to wear dark makeup. She was utterly serious.

 

She was genuinely puzzled that everybody she told about this was appalled and told her she absolutely could not do that. She said it was "such a romantic time in our history" and truly didn't understand why her idea was unacceptable.

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

All I have to say is ignorance is bliss. Having worked with the public in rural Georgia, I have used the n- word not as a racial slur but as an expression of their ignorance (quite frankly I mumbled that word more towards white people then black). I'm not particularly proud of that but sometimes there are no other words to express something. Oh and I'm a Yankee. I have lots of stories of such ignorance.

 

 

No, there are DEFINITELY other words than that to express something. And your use of a racially loaded and repugnant word to describe, as you say, "ignorant white people" is extremely telling. Please, please, please think about what you are saying, and examine your underlying motivation for using that term. Recognize what it means, and what its history is, and what it means for you to apply it to anyone.

[MomtoCandJ]

I'm sorry for being offensive, I have learned from my experiences.

[UmMusa]

After reading the article, I feel her answers and comments were not surprising. Many, many people in the South think and act like her. Those notions are still there, and like a PP said, it's often a matter of behavior/attitude rather than skin color.

 

FTR I certainly don't agree with it.

 

These are the same ppl who are making a fuss about that Cheerios commercial! (With white mom/black dad)

[Ruby Rose]

I've been to one of "those" restaurants. The president of the company took me there to lunch one day. I was certain I had fallen into a time warp. It was totally acceptable to the high society people in the area. It is THE place. I was flabbergasted!

 

On the flip side, while sitting in a fast food restaurant with my kids I had a group of black guys loudly saying N this, N that. I decided to approach them and ask why this language was acceptable especially in mixed company (meaning children) if it is such a bad word. I didn't receive any valid or acceptable reasons but we did have an interesting conversation about how its use has a double standard as far as usage. Personally, I'd rather never here it again.

[TammyinTN]

This just makes me mad and sad!

[Hunter's Moon]

I've been to one of "those" restaurants. The president of the company took me there to lunch one day. I was certain I had fallen into a time warp. It was totally acceptable to the high society people in the area. It is THE place. I was flabbergasted!

 

On the flip side, while sitting in a fast food restaurant with my kids I had a group of black guys loudly saying N this, N that. I decided to approach them and ask why this language was acceptable especially in mixed company (meaning children) if it is such a bad word. I didn't receive any valid or acceptable reasons but we did have an interesting conversation about how its use has a double standard as far as usage. Personally, I'd rather never here it again.

 

 

I live in Massachusetts.

 

I do not go a day without hearing that word at least once. It is always said by a black or Hispanic person. They are either referring to their friends as such, or talking about another black or Hispanic person, friend or not.

 

It is said a lot when something funny/surprising happens "Yo n----, that was crazy!!!!"

 

I do not understand it and do not find it acceptable for any race to use. I don't go aroun calling white people "cracker" or "honky" just because I am white. Unfortunately, it has always been this way in the area I am in.

[Hoot]

(In fact, the most vile racism I have ever been exposed to was during a visit to Pennsylvania. It exists everywhere, unfortunately.)

 

 

Absolutely yes. This is not just a Southern thing. I'm from the mid-Atlantic and it is HUGE here. When I was a teen (15ish yrs. ago) we lived in town for awhile and would frequently see KKK marches in front of our house. There are certain areas around here where blacks just simply do. not. go. It has gotten outwardly better, but the attitudes are still very much the same. My father was racist when I was a child, though more so toward Mexicans than blacks. My uncles are deathly racist to the point that they threatened their daughters with disownment if they ever so much as considered dating a black man. My in-laws and even my husband are somewhat racist. Every single one of them will tell you that they're not. They have black friends, don'tcha know. But, when it comes down to it, it's only the blacks who act respectably like whites who are worth anything. All the others are "n---," the black version of "white trash." It's all so sad and ridiculous.

[FaithManor]

 

She said it was "such a romantic time in our history" and truly didn't understand why her idea was unacceptable.

 

 

:svengo: :svengo: :svengo: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

 

I suppose it's culturally unacceptable to take people with this historical view and relegate them to bio domes in Antarctica?????? :biggrinjester:

 

Faith

[plansrme]

In the story I read, her comment about what makes a joke funny was in response to a question about whether using the N-word in a joke is "mean." She was saying, in context, that she can't opine on what offends someone else. Which makes sense! How many times has this board discussed why rappers can use the N word and white people can't?

 

Also, again in the story I read, the remark about the black waiters was not made as it has been presented here. She thought the look--gentlemen in nice suits (tuxes? I don't remember) was sophisticated, but she realized it was reminiscent of slavery and ditched the idea. The way I read it was that she was impressed by the sophistication and the professionalism of the wait staff at a restaurant she had visited and wanted to replicate that but dismissed the idea when she realized how it would look.

 

I don't have strong feelings for Paula Deen one way or the other, but I am concerned that the sensationalistic bits are being taken out of context.

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

Also, again in the story I read, the remark about the black waiters was not made as it has been presented here. She thought the look--gentlemen in nice suits (tuxes? I don't remember) was sophisticated, but she realized it was reminiscent of slavery and ditched the idea.

 

 

Yes, she was envisioning an entire staff of black gentlemen men in nice white suits, which she thought looked sophisticated and would like to replicate. Not an entire staff of gentlemen of various races and ethnicities. I guess that doesn't look as sophisticated. You don't see the meaning inherent in that? That's not a construct of the modern world we live in; it's a throwback to the bad old days.

[Kathryn]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/19/paula-deen-racist-comments-n-word-caught-on-video_n_3467287.html

 

On planning a Southern plantation-style wedding:

 

Lawyer: Do you recall using the words “really southern plantation wedding� Deen: Yes, I did say I would love for Bubba to experience a very southern style wedding, and we did that. We did that.

Lawyer: Okay. You would love for him to experience a southern style plantation wedding?

Deen: Yes.

 

Lawyer: That’s what you said?

Deen: Well, something like that, yes. And -–

 

Laywer: Okay. And is that when you went on to describe the experience you had at the restaurant in question?

Deen: Well, I don’t know. We were probably talking about the food or –- we would have been talking about something to do with service at the wedding, and –-

 

...

 

Lawyer: Is there any possibility, in your mind, that you slipped and used the word “n----r�

Deen: No, because that’s not what these men were. They were professional black men doing a fabulous job.

 

Lawyer: Why did that make it a -– if you would have had servers like that, why would that have made it a really southern plantation wedding?

 

...

 

Deen: Well, it –- to me, of course I’m old but I ain’t that old, I didn’t live back in those days but I’ve seen the pictures, and the pictures that I’ve seen, that restaurant represented a certain era in America.

 

Lawyer: Okay.

Deen: And I was in the south when I went to this restaurant. It was located in the south.

 

Lawyer: Okay. What era in America are you referring to?

Deen: Well, I don’t know. After the Civil War, during the Civil War, before the Civil War.

 

Lawyer: Right. Back in an era where there were middle-aged black men waiting on white people.

Deen: Well, it was not only black men, it was black women.

 

Lawyer: Sure. And before the Civil War –- before the Civil War, those black men and women who were waiting on white people were slaves, right?

Deen: Yes, I would say that they were slaves.

 

Lawyer: Okay.

Deen: But I did not mean anything derogatory by saying that I loved their look and their professionalism.

[Guest inoubliable]

I think she's a nutter anyway. Racist nutter.

 

She visiting Colonial Williamsburg several years ago. She was there doing some promotion stuff for Virginia Hams. Anyway, she was nasty. That accent she has on TV? Way more Southern than how she *really* talks. She sounded like she was scripted the entire trip, except for when she'd start talking to someone in her group without using her obnoxious on-air accent and one of her handlers would shush her.

 

I wouldn't eat her heart attack-inducing food anyway. I don't get why she's a food celebrity at all.

[elegantlion]

"Entire staff of black gentlemen in white suits" "professional black men doing a fabulous job" - which adjective would be removed if you were not racist? Seriously, I don't think some people see it. I saw this attitude pretty commonly when we lived in the south. There were some that thought every observation needed to have race entered into the equation.

 

Here's a little help: "Entire staff of black gentlemen in white suits" "professional black men doing a fabulous job" See, a compliment without the underlying racial remarks.

[Kathryn]

"Entire staff of black gentlemen in white suits" "professional black men doing a fabulous job" - which adjective would be removed if you were not racist? Seriously, I don't think some people see it. I saw this attitude pretty commonly when we lived in the south. There were some that thought every observation needed to have race entered into the equation.

 

Here's a little help: "Entire staff of black gentlemen in white suits" "professional black men doing a fabulous job" See, a compliment without the underlying racial remarks.

 

 

I see this VERY frequently, of course never with "white" as the unnecessary adjective. It's always a story about the "black" cashier who was rude or the "hispanic" guy who was being too loud, etc.

[plansrme]

"Entire staff of black gentlemen in white suits" "professional black men doing a fabulous job" - which adjective would be removed if you were not racist? Seriously, I don't think some people see it. I saw this attitude pretty commonly when we lived in the south. There were some that thought every observation needed to have race entered into the equation.

 

Here's a little help: "Entire staff of black gentlemen in white suits" "professional black men doing a fabulous job" See, a compliment without the underlying racial remarks.

 

But they WERE black men. And there's nothing wrong with that. It's not like calling someone the N-word; the N word is derogatory (usually), while saying someone is black is a statement of fact, not a slur. And I don't know how she would know what plantations looked like, but there were certainly a number of elegant post-Civil War restaurants where the wait staff was black. Country club dining rooms in the South and, quite likely, elsewhere, were often staffed by professional waiters who took their jobs very seriously and considered it a worthwhile career, not the silly college kids on summer break one would find today. Thinking those restaurants were elegant and to be emulated does not make her a racist. And she says she thought better of it once she realized (or someone pointed out) the implications.

 

Paula Deen may be a racist. I don't know. She may be a witch. I don't know. But her statements in the depositions, in context, do not make her a racist.

[NicAnn]

 

 

But they WERE black men. And there's nothing wrong with that. It's not like calling someone the N-word; the N word is derogatory (usually), while saying someone is black is a statement of fact, not a slur. And I don't know how she would know what plantations looked like, but there were certainly a number of elegant post-Civil War restaurants where the wait staff was black. Country club dining rooms in the South and, quite likely, elsewhere, were often staffed by professional waiters who took their jobs very seriously and considered it a worthwhile career, not the silly college kids on summer break one would find today. Thinking those restaurants were elegant and to be emulated does not make her a racist. And she says she thought better of it once she realized (or someone pointed out) the implications.

 

Paula Deen may be a racist. I don't know. She may be a witch. I don't know. But her statements in the depositions, in context, do not make her a racist.

 

That's how I took it too. She refered to them as black men because of the question and context.

I know very little of Paula Deen, but I saw nothing racist in this particular exchange.

[elegantlion]

 

But they WERE black men. And there's nothing wrong with that. It's not like calling someone the N-word; the N word is derogatory (usually), while saying someone is black is a statement of fact, not a slur. And I don't know how she would know what plantations looked like, but there were certainly a number of elegant post-Civil War restaurants where the wait staff was black. Country club dining rooms in the South and, quite likely, elsewhere, were often staffed by professional waiters who took their jobs very seriously and considered it a worthwhile career, not the silly college kids on summer break one would find today. Thinking those restaurants were elegant and to be emulated does not make her a racist. And she says she thought better of it once she realized (or someone pointed out) the implications.

 

Paula Deen may be a racist. I don't know. She may be a witch. I don't know. But her statements in the depositions, in context, do not make her a racist.

That's how I took it too. She refered to them as black men because of the question and context.

I know very little of Paula Deen, but I saw nothing racist in this particular exchange.

 

My experience is very much like Kathryn's. I don't know if she was being specific only in the courtroom (other why point out the contrast of the black skin/white suit), but it was very common experience for race only to be mentioned if they were not white/Caucasian. It's an underlying thought pattern that was often rather vocal and open about their racism. If unconscious it's strictly bad form to mention race when no mention of race is necessary. Yes I saw that thought pattern shining in all its glory more than once.

 

In some contexts, yes, race may be relevant to the discussion. However, more often than not it was used to create a separation when none was necessary.

[SarahW]

Ugh, the "I'm not a racist!" people who really are are so annoying.

 

I know a guy who thinks he's not a racist because he disagreed with colored bathrooms (when they existed) and he doesn't mind some black people, you know, the one's who are Oreos, not the uneducated and scary ones. They're not bad based on their skin color, you see, they just have a different "culture," one that is quite inferior (how unfortunate!).

 

:blink:

 

Paula Deen's comment strikes me the same way. "Oh, just look at how elegant all of these black people can be! Isn't it purrty?" :ack2:

[LucyStoner]

The use of the n-word by African Americans towards each other is controversial. I know plenty of rappers who either don't use it or have stopped using it. That said, it's use by some in black culture and music does not strip the word of its legacy and history and thus make it acceptable for anyone to use. It is kind of like gay people using faggot for each other or lesbians embracing the word dyke. That doesn't mean it's not hurtful for someone outside each community to use these words.

 

The idea that it's "an attitude" and not a racial slur is patently absurd. Using it for people who are not black makes it no more acceptable. Good grief.

 

Here is a very well spoken boy calling out the use of the n word as a cultural term. I don't necessarily 100% agree but his points are great and he's very articulate.

 

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=xg_Fxf_yE1I&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dxg_Fxf_yE1I

[LucyStoner]

 

 

But they WERE black men. And there's nothing wrong with that. It's not like calling someone the N-word; the N word is derogatory (usually), while saying someone is black is a statement of fact, not a slur.

 

It is a fact that I am a white woman. No one has ever called me a "smart white woman", an "articulate white woman", an "educated white woman". My skin color is not deemed relevant and is never mentioned. My brother gets called a "hard working black man", a "good black father", "a smart black man". Is his race relevant to any of those things? My white husband does not have his race called out when someone says those things about him.

[FaithManor]

It is a fact that I am a white woman. No one has ever called me a "smart white woman", an "articulate white woman", an "educated white woman". My skin color is not deemed relevant and is never mentioned. My brother gets called a "hard working black man", a "good black father", "a smart black man". Is his race relevant to any of those things? My white husband does not have his race called out when someone says those things about him.

 

 

BINGO! Ding, ding, ding...you hit the nail on the head.

 

Faith

[Mrs Mungo]

My experience is very much like Kathryn's. I don't know if she was being specific only in the courtroom (other why point out the contrast of the black skin/white suit), but it was very common experience for race only to be mentioned if they were not white/Caucasian. It's an underlying thought pattern that was often rather vocal and open about their racism. If unconscious it's strictly bad form to mention race when no mention of race is necessary. Yes I saw that thought pattern shining in all its glory more than once.

 

In some contexts, yes, race may be relevant to the discussion. However, more often than not it was used to create a separation when none was necessary.

 

 

I agree. When we travel to see certain relatives, we hear this a lot. My kids get all wide-eyed because they are *not* accustomed to hearing it. It really stands out when you don't hear it all of the time.

 

Also, I thought the article (or one of them) said that someone had to talk PD out of the idea of the antebellum wedding, not that she realized it was inappropriate on her own.