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That's as far away as one can get, eh? ;)

 

Seriously, I will be hsing again beginning in July and we will not be going the WTM way. Other than studying history in a chronological fashion I don't think anything that I will be using is considered classical. I know for sure my philosophy of education isn't classical.

 

I guess I don't know why I even hang out on these boards.

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I call my style "Classicaly Waldorf." We use a mix of classical, Waldorf, Montessori and Charlotte Mason methods and ideas.

 

Charlotte Mason brings us short intense lessons perfect for the wiggly child and a search for good books that speak to us as Living Books.

 

Waldorf brings us art and creativity which is perfect for the VSL and stories for my child who learns that way.

 

Montessori brings manipulatives for hands-on learning.

 

And Classical with inspiration from TWTM and LCC brings us Latin, grammar and good solid mathematics study.

 

Most people would say we are eclectic.:)

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I never thought any one homeschooling method was to be followed precisely to the letter. I have gotten great ideas from many of the educational camps and we definitely take what we like and leave the rest.

I guess I don't know why I even hang out on these boards.

 

I hang out for the ideas. There are so many resources out there nowadays, it's nice to see how they are working for other people.

 

Sometimes I wonder how did people ever hs before the internet? :D

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Sometimes I wonder how did people ever hs before the internet?

 

I do too!

 

I don't know yet exactly where I fall - somewhere between classical and Charlotte Mason and....everywhere else, I guess. But I'm going to keep hanging out here, if that's all right with everyone. ;) I need this board, LOL.

 

:)

Melissa

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WTM aspects:

Chronological history; Latin; memorisation; (some) copywork; some thought about grammar/logic/rhetoric stages

 

Anti-WTM areas:

Low on grammar; creative writing fairly early; stress on PE; short days; waiting to read classics rather than using children's versions; almost no WTM-recommended curricula.

 

Laura

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I'm a classical education wannabe. :p After years of homeschooling, we've learned our groove is a complete boxed program. I have one child doing K12 and it's going great. We know exactly what to do each day and it gets done, mostly. The other child is doing Sonlight with a few things thrown in. To be honest, the SL stuff gets done everyday because we have a checklist. The rest is willy nilly and it's driving me nuts. The bottom line is that if it is a schedule that someone else made up, we follow it fairly closely. If it's a scheule I've made up, it just doesn't seem to happen.

 

So, if someone were to create a complete secular classical ed in a box that included all subjects, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. Oh man, I'd be all over that. :)

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I have tweaked it, a lot. I never did science the WTM way, opting instead for a free-standing science program every year. We are very strong in grammar here, and in my heart I want for us to be strong in composition, but we struggle mightily. Sometimes I look at Ambleside and think about it, but my love of the four year chronological history pulls me back like a giant bungee cord.

 

We are Latin failures and logic stumped me. (I blame MY appalling lack of an educational foundation for my inability to make it past about the third chapter of Introductory Logic)

 

I think WTM ruined me for life.:D I know the education I want for my kids, thus making all but one school in my community insufficient (and that school is not in the budget), and yet I lack the depth and breadth of learning to implement it.

 

I need a really smart person to come live in my house and implement my game plan. Anyone looking for a life change? I am a pretty good cook, if that helps.

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I'm a classical education wannabe. :p :)

 

 

 

I'm a wannabe also. I just love getting ideas and hearing how everyone else does things, but I NO WAY, follow TWTM strictly. I am more eclectic in our homeschool and we take things from all over. I really like the CM method also.

 

Kristine

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Oh my goodness, yes. I love the Well Trained Mind boards. These forums are a wealth of information, but I have probably gone cooky in my homeschooling. I am classical because I teach my children Latin and/or Greek. That's what makes you classical (that is what I have read). My son loves Story of the World so much. He told me that I can never sell this series and he wants to teach it to his children. So, Peace Hill Press will always get my business, but I am following Ambleside Online because it is a free curriculum and it has rich literature. The approach of short lessons and more character training is what is enticing to me. Charlotte Mason approach is to teach character before anything else is taught.

 

I must confess that I was truly turned off from The Well Trained Mind after I joined an academic co-op two years ago. They were so obsessed with academics. They wanted academics incessantly with the exception of lunch and recess. Those periods encompassed 20 minutes. Now in my state where I live, there are so many academic co-ops that have sprouted. It is almost as if there is one in every county. Many are based upon the Well Trained Mind. People are no longer assessing their child's learning style and picking a curriculum based upon their child's abilities. They are going to a co-op and letting the co-op decide their program.

 

I wanted to say though that I know that the Well Trained Mind is a good approach to homeschooling. It helps give you a good direction as to what books to get in order to teach your child. These forums have been a blessing to me in my homeschool life.

 

 

Sorry this is long. Please forgive me.

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I guess I don't know why I even hang out on these boards.

 

 

I don't follow any style/curricula/path! I don't do cyclical history, I am not currently teaching Latin, and I am very relaxed in the younger yrs. :)

 

You are definitely not alone. I hang out on these boards b/c the women here are serious about educating their children and research curricula, methods, options. I don't know homeschoolers in real life that have that educational philosophy! That is what I love about the WTM boards and WTM in general!!! :)

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As my oldest (my guinea pig) nears 4th grade in the fall, I am seeing where WTM recommendation have worked really well -- things I definitely want to continue with my next-in-line guinea pig (he'll officially be K in the fall). And, I can see where things we've done a la WTM haven't been as natural or won't work for ds2.

 

SWB's recommendations for early elementary writing (copywork, narration, etc.) have been spot on for us (...and for me, too. I always hated the emphasis on 'creative writing' in the elementary years. Too contrived).

 

I love the 4 year history rotations from TWTM. There are some fun units we've completed in those grades that I wouldn't have wanted to miss for the world -- Egypt, Rome, Greece. Renaissance. Middle Ages.

 

We've always used Sonlight's Read Aloud list to cover our bases for good children's literature. RAs have always been a huge hit in in our family.

 

We're now using Sonlight Core 3 to make my life easier and to spend some time just in US history. I think ds will benefit from seeing the Big World Picture better during his logic and rhetoric years.

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I did pre-K and K based on SWBs recommendations. I absolutely love the History program. I love the stages concept too. Beginning with 1st grade though we signed ds up for a VA and they use K12 which honestly has been fine. SWB helped develop their history program. I went that route because dh was/is not 100% behind hs'ling and he really liked the VA idea better. The free part is nice as well

 

I like K12 well enough though that I could see myself just buyiing the box set if I was not doing the VA. I too would LOVE a boxed TWTM curriculum.

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Last summer, I gathered my materials (WTM recommendations) to begin our first grade year. They arrived, I looked through them, even implemented a few for a bit (FLL, OPG, SWO, etc). I *hated* FLL! :eek: lol

 

Anyway as I looked at the history, science for 1st and 2nd grade...there was just no way, I would read most of the rec's to my very young children. (that's just *me*)

 

So I ditched it all and resold it. As I said I did not like FLL, DS hated OPG, and he was completely not no where near ready for spelling (still isn't).

 

I do like the 4 year rotations, the notebooking that WTM teaches you to do and so many of the other practical ideas and guidance found in the book! I refer to it often.

 

So I take the things I like and apply them...but do not use the curriculum recommended. I just finished reading LCC, and love the simpleness and deep focus on just the important things it uses....but again, we just don't agree with the focus on ancient 'culture' or the recommended books for our young children. But I do agree with making Latin a huge focus and we will!

 

So, like I always do...I moved back to the framework and principles found in Teaching the Trivium. (we DO use math before age 10 though) They really, really resonate with me, speaks to my heart, I guess.

 

So I follow their basic framework, plugging in the books from Ambleside. I would, however, like to sit me down and try to re-arrange the AO books into a 4 year cycle (history and science) because I really love that about WTM. :D

 

So, in a nutshell, we use most of the AO curriculum, in a classical manner, using TTT as our main 'guide'...desiring to use 4 yr cycles, and will try for that next year! Got that? ;) We will begin the actual AO Yr 1 books this fall, I wanted to do an Ancients study first per WTM, so we are reading Our Young Folks Josephus as our ancients 'spine'.

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We've kept TWTM history, and Susan's ideas about narration and writing for the early years. But we've put a higher importance on Latin; we use very different math and writing curricula; and we will focus more on classical history and literature. Our grammar is part of our writing program, and is reinforced by Latin.

 

We may well end up doing TWTM literature as well, using Susan's model for a Great Books curriculum in high school.

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So I follow their basic framework, plugging in the books from Ambleside. I would, however, like to sit me down and try to re-arrange the AO books into a 4 year cycle (history and science) because I really love that about WTM. :D

 

 

 

 

And when, in your spare time that I am sure you have oodles of, you do indeed arrange the AO books into a neat and tidy 4 year cycle, you will come post it here, right? Because I visit AO at least once a week and think "Hmmm, maybe?" but I always come back to the 4 year cycle.:)

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I like TWTM because it is half way between unschooling and school. It lays out which skills need to be specifically taught and which can be covered in a looser, child-let, interest-led way. This makes it efficient. I find the stages, not necessarily the ages but the stages, accurate for my children. Yes, I've modified TWTM recommendations to fit our family, but (ok, I really am shouting now so I'm going to use capitals)

 

I MODIFIED TWTM USING THE DIRECTIONS FOR DOING SO IN TWTM, SO I'M STILL DOING TWTM!!!

 

Grin. I think that is what you guys are all forgetting. TWTM TELLS you to modify it, and tells you HOW to modify it for your specific family. They didn't mean us to follow their recommendations exactly and do everything on their list and not change anything. They spend a lot of time in the book explaining that we are supposed to use our brains and our hearts and do what is best for our own particular families. TWTM even has suggestions for school-in-a-box and correspondence schools. If you guys have used TWTM as a springboard for homeschooling, then you are WTMers! I'm sure the last thing SWB and JW would want is for you to follow their suggestions no-brained-ly.

 

-Nan

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I like the focus on history from WTM, copywork, Latin.

 

However, we did not really bother with formal grammar until 6th grade (did some computer programs and workbooks, read a lot); stress on PE, too, short days and short lessons and "real" versions of classics.

 

WTM aspects:

Chronological history; Latin; memorisation; (some) copywork; some thought about grammar/logic/rhetoric stages

 

Anti-WTM areas:

Low on grammar; creative writing fairly early; stress on PE; short days; waiting to read classics rather than using children's versions; almost no WTM-recommended curricula.

 

Laura

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I MODIFIED TWTM USING THE DIRECTIONS FOR DOING SO IN TWTM, SO I'M STILL DOING TWTM!!!

 

Grin. I think that is what you guys are all forgetting. TWTM TELLS you to modify it, and tells you HOW to modify it for your specific family. .

 

-Nan

 

Ditto!! I think SWB has given families an excellent framework for solid academics w/o depriving them of flexibility. :) You are right on there!!!

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I followed WTM very closely grades 1-8. However, I have moved to a more traditional path for highschool. We are not centering our highschool study around Great Books. I have also opted to use science textbooks(BJU). We have also dropped Latin for Spanish. As for history, we are still on a chronological schedule for two years(World History Part 1&2), but I will reserve a year for American history, and year for economics and government.

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:D

 

Seriously, folks. Of COURSE you're supposed to adapt it. Of course you're supposed to take what you find valuable and then adjust for your family. Why else are you home schooling?

 

Listen, even within my own family, all four kids are pursuing somewhat different academic and vocational paths, and if someone were going to get really picky, I could probably rank them in order from "more classical" (oldest son) to "least classical" (that would be Ben). But that's why I don't plop them all into the nearest classical school, which would probably give them more stringent overall academic training than I can all by myself. I don't WANT them to get a one-model-fits-all classical education. I want each one of them to get a tailored, hand-made neoclassical education.

 

I've been saying for year now that arguing about which model is "more" or "less" classical is totally pointless. You should be thinking: Which model will meet my goals for my family, and within my family, for each individual child?

 

Which brings me to the REAL value, for me, of (neo)classical education. IT TELLS YOU WHERE YOU'RE GOING. The goal of a classical education is this: at the end of the twelve (or however many) years you educate, the child can gather information, evaluate it, and express an opinion about it. There are many paths to that goal.

 

I think that the paths we outline in TWTM have helped many parents design a journey towards that goal. And I have to say that most of the nasty attacks I've seen on us and on the book, over the past ten years, come from people who have totally misunderstood our intention: To equip you to get YOURSELF there. We're trying to strengthen and equip, not oppress.

 

So kudos to all of you who are trying to reach that goal. You'll make wrong moves, back up, try again, hit dead ends, turn around, re-evaluate...constantly, every single year. You'll never "get it." You'll be in process until that child walks out the door...to continue the process on their own.

 

Unless you lose sight of that goal, you're not going to ruin that child's education.

 

Those of you who aren't doing grammar are the exception. You're beyond help. :)

 

SWB

 

(P.S. That was a JOKE.)

 

(P.P.S. Kind of.)

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I followed WTM very closely grades 1-8. However, I have moved to a more traditional path for highschool. We are not centering our highschool study around Great Books. I have also opted to use science textbooks(BJU). We have also dropped Latin for Spanish. As for history, we are still on a chronological schedule for two years(World History Part 1&2), but I will reserve a year for American history, and year for economics and government.

 

Like Michelle, we also followed WTM fairly closely through 8th grade, and are deviating here and there for high school. I am sure that SWB is agreeing enthusiastically with all of us who use WTM for a springboard and not necessarily as a ball and chain!

 

Denise in NE

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This is exactly how I feel about the WTM. I think a lot of people see us slaving away all day long. That is not how it works. We do work hard at it in the mornings. However, a lot of what we do happens all day long --it's just not called school. That's when we go hiking, do nature walks, watch Science DVDs, do crafts, play games etc., cook.

 

To me TWTM is not a curriculum. IT IS A LIFESTYLE OF LEARNING ALL THE TIME. That is what makes it a mixture of Classical Schooling and Unschooling to me.

 

Susie

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We are early in our school years, but I like TWTM for what it is...a great guideline with many ways to implement.

 

I was a math/science person in school and did not do well AT ALL in the language arts area, so TWTM has been great for our school. Without the ideas for the younger set, I wouldn't have done it honestly. So I appreciate the book very much for what it offers.

 

I also LOVE the 4 year cycle for history. I loved history in school but it was so all over the place I never made a lot of connections until I transferred to a college that required the 4 year history cycle and then wow(!) I got it! I have really tried to move away from TWTM b/c the language arts seemed to much at times(IMHO) for the older grades when they might want to be more science or math based....but that 4 year cycle keeps drawing me back in.

 

My son is actually thriving with FLL and OPG(as review this year) and seems strong in the language arts where I never was. So at this point we will keep on following the book guidelines and reevaluate as they get older and may want to move into more science/math based education. I do think the program is heavy on language arts and history but it's something that my own background lacked, so I am using it now to help build that base for the upper grades.

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Yup, Nan ... that's why I'm still here :)

 

I think it's hard for some people (me included) ... you know, overachiever types ... to look at all the lists and recommendations in TWTM and STEP BACK. I can modify and simplify until the cows come home, but then when I look a large booklist, or outlines that say "do this, do this, do this," I tend to freak out and throw my modifications and simplifications out the window. Then after awhile of panicking, and putting away the lists, I can find my way back to where I want to be.

 

So when people ask how LCC is different than TWTM, I often tell them that in my case, it's really not that different. What I'm doing now looks pretty much the same as what I was doing then. However, when I reach freakout mode, the LCC book is that calm voice whispering in my ear, reminding me that as long as I focus on particular areas, we'll be fine. My homeschool exists, then, between the two. You could call it modified WTM, or modified LCC. Same thing. For me.

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exactly as written. And even then I wonder!

 

I love the well trained mind because it's the first homeschooling book that helped me to make and think long-term, and helped me really see the big picture.

 

I like CM but I don't resonate with her as far as helping me put it into practice. I love the idea of short lessons, living books, time outdoors, nature study and the arts but I'm not artsy. I wish I were but I'm not. I can't dance, play an instrument or do any kind of artistic thing. So I always feel defeated trying to implement CM...

 

We are somewhere between traditional textbooks and Classical. Using Covenant Home we will be using quite a few textbooks, and will have a daily plan.

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The goal of a classical education is this: at the end of the twelve (or however many) years you educate, the child can gather information, evaluate it, and express an opinion about it. There are many paths to that goal.

.......Unless you lose sight of that goal, you're not going to ruin that child's education.

 

This is why I like TWTM, but when the little tykes frustrate my plans for them continually, I feel like I am ruining their education. I think that comes from my lack of education, but I continue to plod forward though and see good stuff come from them. Still, listening to your simple statements like those above takes the pressure I put myself under off my mind. Thanks Susan.

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Do you find that you have moved away, even far away from WTM?

 

 

 

I was never WTM to start with! While I like the ideas of WTM, I don't think as written, it is the best choice for LD or ADHD kids. My guy takes a LOT of modifying of all curriculum, and is below grade level in all areas. He just cannot handle the amount of writing, memorizing, or logic that WTM calls for.

 

I pick and choose what elements I like from WTM, CM, unit studies, school-at-home, unschooling, you name it. My only concern is how best to teach my son, I don't so much care which method I use. Whatever works best!

Michelle T

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I've been saying for year now that arguing about which model is "more" or "less" classical is totally pointless. You should be thinking: Which model will meet my goals for my family, and within my family, for each individual child?

 

Which brings me to the REAL value, for me, of (neo)classical education. IT TELLS YOU WHERE YOU'RE GOING. The goal of a classical education is this: at the end of the twelve (or however many) years you educate, the child can gather information, evaluate it, and express an opinion about it. There are many paths to that goal.

 

I think that the paths we outline in TWTM have helped many parents design a journey towards that goal. And I have to say that most of the nasty attacks I've seen on us and on the book, over the past ten years, come from people who have totally misunderstood our intention: To equip you to get YOURSELF there. We're trying to strengthen and equip, not oppress.

 

 

I happen to love WTM and I feel strengthened and equipped!! When I first read it, it spoke to me and I felt like I could see where I was going and what I wanted the end result of my homeschooling my children to be (for the first time). So far, the WTM-recommended curriculum has generally clicked with my oldest. He's just that kind of kid, probably always will be. My second child however, is completely different with different needs, and #3--who knows, but I feel like I know what my goal is and I know how to evaluate each child's needs to reach that goal. So I feel that I'm still being true to TWTM.

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I'd love that 4-year cycle with AO books as well!!! Hmmm.....maybe I'll try to find the time to do it myself this summer. I wouldn't hold my breath though. LOL! I have a 1 yo and three older ones who keep me busy with swim team. Lazy, hazy days of summer don't exist for us.

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SWB said of her book " Which brings me to the REAL value, for me, of (neo)classical education. IT TELLS YOU WHERE YOU'RE GOING. The goal of a classical education is this: at the end of the twelve (or however many) years you educate, the child can gather information, evaluate it, and express an opinion about it. There are many paths to that goal."

 

TWTMThanks for this reminder. The goal of having my child be able to evaluate information is what touched my heart when I read the book the first time. I have adapted some things for our journey, but the goal has not changed. I have jokingly called what I do "classical light" because we are not as rigorous as TWTM, but it is nice to be reminded that it as not as much about following an exact plan as finding a way to reach your goal.

 

Cedarmom

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Do you find that you have moved away, even far away from WTM? I have in my choices, but not in theory. What would you "label" or consider yourself doing now-:confused: I just think my kids work better under the CM style- and more under "MY" style-

 

For the younger kids I am much more CM, but about 3rd grade I start moving them more classical.

 

Heather

 

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No matter which direction our education takes I will forever have a debt of gratitude to TWTM for allowing me to get beyond my early confusion over what home education could be. I think it will always serve as the bones of our school. Even with the adjustments that I continue to make I stick fairly closely to the overall guidelines. The adaptability was one of the things I really loved about it. Of course, we're in our freshman year so there's a lot of evolution to still take place.

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but after reading WTM and following WTM very closely for 3 years, we then used LCC and WTM combined, using MFW for 2 years. I still use WTM history...love SOTW above anything else I have used.

My 4th grader is using RC, SOW for Bible and writing/Literature, Saxon, and will read SOTW cycle. I have found the right combination!!!

My younger 2 are learning to read and doing RS math. They will follow along when they reach 4th too. Until then it is phonics, RS and SOTW read aloud. I always use IEW for 3rd and 4th writing fundamentals.

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So kudos to all of you who are trying to reach that goal. You'll make wrong moves, back up, try again, hit dead ends, turn around, re-evaluate...constantly, every single year. You'll never "get it." You'll be in process until that child walks out the door...to continue the process on their own.

 

I'll never get it?? I'll be in process for the next 11 years?? EVERY year?? Try every month!! :) I was thinking these very things yesterday, as I was looking at samples of Mind Benders books online to order for next year...and starting that panic feeling again..."Oh no, something ELSE I'm going to have to learn, that I never learned before (logic)!" Just when I had finally come up from the mists and started to get a grip on overall writing goals, now logic is creeping up on me. (But I'm determined to do it)

 

Your grammar sort-of joke had me ROTFL!

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So I follow their basic framework, plugging in the books from Ambleside. I would, however, like to sit me down and try to re-arrange the AO books into a 4 year cycle (history and science) because I really love that about WTM. :D

 

Oh please do! :D That is pretty much the only thing holding me back from AO.

 

I love WTM. It helped me to figure out what kind of an education I desire for my kiddos. With that being said...I am not an exclusive WTMer. I like the 4 year cycle of history and enjoy the introduction SOTW and the AG have given my boys.

 

I have recently read LCC and that also spoke to me. I will be making Latin more of a focus for our school. However, I will also be doing a grammar program along with it. If for anything than piece of mind *knowing* it is getting covered. That's just me. :)

 

Literature is a BIG deal in our family. Good lit. and not, as CM has put so well, twaddle. Therefore, I hope to incorporate more of a CM approach with lit. and Language Arts in general.

 

I've been doing a lot of thinking about all of this and just trying to figure it all out. You people have been a tremendous source of ideas and encouragement for me. Thank you! :D

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:D

 

Those of you who aren't doing grammar are the exception. You're beyond help. :)

 

(P.S. That was a JOKE.)

 

(P.P.S. Kind of.)

 

Oh, that made me laugh!

I *just* told my son this morning, after re-reading the rhetoric chapters in TWTM, that we wouldn't be dropping grammar for high school.

Would you believe this response? He said, "Oh, good!" :confused:

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I MODIFIED TWTM USING THE DIRECTIONS FOR DOING SO IN TWTM, SO I'M STILL DOING TWTM!!!

 

Grin. I think that is what you guys are all forgetting. TWTM TELLS you to modify it, and tells you HOW to modify it for your specific family. They didn't mean us to follow their recommendations exactly and do everything on their list and not change anything. They spend a lot of time in the book explaining that we are supposed to use our brains and our hearts and do what is best for our own particular families. TWTM even has suggestions for school-in-a-box and correspondence schools. If you guys have used TWTM as a springboard for homeschooling, then you are WTMers! I'm sure the last thing SWB and JW would want is for you to follow their suggestions no-brained-ly.

 

-Nan

 

Well yelled (uh, said)! :D

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The WTM gave me confidence when I started this adventure six years ago. I love these boards and do use a good bit of the Neo Classical methods (copy work, grammar, latin, etc) as well as others outside WTM (science, 4 year history mixed with US history from SL). I love that my kids are getting better (scaffolding) to use a public school term. I came up in the math, whole language, let it all hang-out 70's and have awful skills to show for it (grammar, spelling, etc). I'm glad that my dd12 can now spell better than I and already writes far better than I ever did in sixth grade and my dd7 knows who won the Battle of Hastings. I have Susan and these boards to that for that. :D

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When I first contemplated homeschooling...... prior to having children..... I was sure I wanted to Unschool......... then I read TWTM and followed that for the first couple of years until I found LCC........ I've been freaking out because my girls have lagged some while I am trying to get my son reading (not easy)..... so at this point I feel we have become Classical Unschoolers. :p

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