Why is our culture so AFRAID all the time?

[shinyhappypeople]

People are afraidbecause there are freaks and weirdos everywhere. Pedophiles look for kids that are alone. I am not going to let my dd be the one that gets abducted. It would be my fault if I had allowed her to go somewhere on her own and she was taken. Every parent has the right to make those decisions themselves- if it doesn't bother you, don't worry about it.

 

Now that she's 15 1/2, I let her go a lot of places on her own. But still, we are in Southern California- there are a lot of weirdos here!

 

ETA: It is really not an issue of whether or not your child can get to/from somewhere by themselves in a safe manner. The issue is who happens to be in the area watching your child. The people are out there. They just are. It is naive to think that they are not in your neck of the woods, and it is that type of naivete that can cost your child his/her life.

 

 

No, it would be the fault of the criminal who did the horrible act. The fault would rest entirely with that person and no one else. Not your daughter and not you.

[Jane in NC]

I think it is entirely possible to be "that mom" who drives her kids everywhere, yet still raise kids who aren't overly fearful.

 

Why do people seem to think that if a kid isn't roaming all over town at 7 years old (or 8 or 10 or 12,) that they're automatically going to grow up to be paranoid adults who are afraid of their own shadows? :confused:

 

Just because a parent chooses to be very protective of her kids and teaches them to be alert and aware of their surroundings, does not mean that she spends her days filling their heads with horrifying tales of child molesters and serial killers. :glare:

 

 

You have jumped to a conclusion that I am not seeing in this thread.

 

I spend part of the summer in a small coastal town where families have known each other for generations. What is interesting to me is that many children who live in non-pedestrian friendly suburbs or non-kid friendly urban areas are allowed to be free rangers in the summer. I don't know if the summer community is any safer than their permanent homes. But there is a perceived sense of safety in part due to the fact that parents wandered alone in this town when they were children.

 

My son at age 20 wandered about London on his own. When I traveled to Europe at that age, I pulled into a train station and found lodgings. I did not feel comfortable having him combat jet lag and find a safe place to call home for a few days before his summer program began in another city. So we booked a bed for him online. Over protective? I don't think so. This is sensible and easily doable with technology. That was not the case when I was his age.

 

All of us make the calls that are right for our comfort zones.

[Parrothead]

SKL, on 18 March 2013 - 02:22 PM, said:

 

 

There's also a risk to never letting a child do anything without parental supervision.

 

 

 

 

 

Children, in order to thrive, should be given progressively more autonomy and independence. They need to build confidence, and competence, and be given the opportunity to make choices, decisions, and mistakes. This should be informed by age, experience, community resources.

 

The risks are huge to not allow this process. You know that, though, Parrothead.

 

That process can exist healthfully on a continuum - there is not a cookie cutter absolute. It can vary widely even in local context. It should include geography, individual readiness (of the child, not the parent), assessment for correct training, local laws, etc.

 

There are extremes on both sides that are not supported by facts or child development research.

 

The bolded I will agree with. The decisions one makes have to take into account location, age and other factors. When we lived elsewhere I did let dd have more freedom. When she was six she walked to the park a block away. But we lived even more in the middle of nowhere and strangers were very obvious. The last place we lived (before here) dd was allowed to play with the neighbor kids. The biggest fear there was her getting hurt since the neighbor kids where both boys who did play rather rough. (Here the neighbor kids refuse to play with her. I have my own theories on that which belong in another thread)

 

Here though, a different set of circumstances comes into play. Yes, she is old enough to walk the two blocks to dance lessons, but the risk is higher, much much higher, of something happening due to the unsavory aspects of the neighborhood. A lone 13-year old who looks 18 from a distance (she is 5'8" and rather filled out at 150lbs) is just asking for trouble walking past one junkie house and within 50 feet of another. That is too much of a risk for my comfort.

 

Bad things happen to good kids. It is a fact. It might be a one-in-350,000 chance, but I'll do all in my power to assure my kid isn't that one. That one has to come from somewhere. How can a parent know know it won't be theirs?

[Crimson Wife]

 

In Europe (Paris and London, specifically) I see kids all the time who are riding the metro to/from school by themselves. And in Hong Kong, we allowed my kids (9 at the time) to be quite independent. They regularly made trips to the grocery or tennis club without me or any other adult. I get that Europe and Asia are culturally different, but I wonder....is the US really as unsafe as people fear?

 

 

 

If violent crime where I lived were similar to that of most Western European and Japanese neighborhoods, I'd feel comfortable giving my kids a lot more freedom as well.

[Catwoman]

I think parents have to assess their behaviors and figure out if how they are handling their dc is allowing said dc to develop independence and a sense of how to handle personal safety. If you take care of your dc personal safety all the time then your child will not likely learn to discern signals in the environment on his own.

 

 

I'm not so sure about that. We have spent a lot of time in NYC with our ds since he was little, and it's not like we could just turn him loose in midtown Manhattan and let him learn to take care of himself, but he has learned a lot about being aware and alert, and about how to conduct himself safely simply by observing the way my dh and I behave.

 

We have also always taken the time to point out specific things to him, like a person who appears to be acting suspiciously (and what to do if that person were to approach him.) Sometimes, we also identify a person who is being blatantly careless and ask him what he thinks that person may be doing to attract unwanted attention from a potentially dangerous person. We want him to be aware of how to deal with a wide variety of situations, but we don't want him to be unnecessarily scared of people, either. We try to find a balance where he realizes that most of the time, nothing bad will happen, but that he should always be ready to react if it does, and -- more importantly -- how to do everything possible to avoid being a victim.

 

I don't think a kid needs to learn those things alone. But I do agree with you that the parent can't simply take care of their children's personal safety all the time without explaining how and why they're doing it.

[lea_lpz]

 

No, it would be the fault of the criminal who did the horrible act. The fault would rest entirely with that person and no one else. Not your daughter and not you.

 

I agree with that. I can't live in fear my whole life or have my children live in fear because something might happen. Life is short, precious, and fleeting. We never know when are card is up, but you can't live your life in fear if you want to grow, want to live.

 

And I am not naive about what's out there, i just chose to not let the weirdos out there win by forcing me to not allow my children a childhood.

[renmew]

Our next door neighbor is just like me, and so are most of the families on our street - during the evenings and weekends our block is full of kids playing together without adult watching most of the time. There is one house where the kids are not allowed to be unsupervised, but they are not home as much as the rest of us. My 9 year old goes bike riding around the block with the 6 year old next door all the time. We've all spoken to the kids about what to do when a stranger shows any attention to them.

 

I used to let my ds, then 6 years old, go into the large pet store alone to buy crickets for the frog. The first time my youngest was finally asleep and I didn't want to wake her. The crickets are just to the right of the front door and the register is just to the left. He wouldn't have been wandering through the store or anything like that. Still, the cashier walked him out and told me he was probably too young to do that. He did it several times after that, and loved the independence. Now, he walks to the liquor store alone, and soon I may start him walking to the library alone, about a 2 mile round trip. And this is suburban Los Angeles.

 

I think kids need confidence in their own skills. When they are not allowed to do things on their own, they may perceive the reason to be a reflection on themselves, especially when it is something other kids are able to do.

 

Next fall my two girls, a kinder and first grader, will most likely be home alone for an hour in the morning and walking themselves to school. The arrangement I have for the older one this year may no longer work in the fall and budget cuts have already taken the before-school supervision. We live a 3 minute walk from the school. I know they can do it. They already handle Saturday mornings alone for an hour or two while I sleep in.

[Lara in Colo]

It just seems to me that we would rather yell at the mother for letting her child play outside because of a nearby meth house than get together as a neighborhood and get rid of the meth house. We hunker down in our houses and say it is the police's job.

 

And yes in practicality is the job of the police, but is it not part our job?

[Parrothead]

 

Why take it personally? YOU asked me to give examples of the risks of not having unsupervised time. So I did. I'm not telling you to drop off your daughter in Hell's Kitchen.

 

Next time I will ignore such requests.

 

Well, Hell's Kitchen is between where dd is and where she needs to get. I'm not taking the chance of having her walk past it. That is the part where I'm taking things personally. Here in my neighborhood, free range isn't a good idea. I'm sure in your neighborhood it is fine. I can't imagine you would let your kids run free in my neighborhood.

[Catwoman]

It just seems to me that we would rather yell at the mother for letting her child play outside because of a nearby meth house than get together as a neighborhood and get rid of the meth house. We hunker down in our houses and say it is the police's job.

 

And yes in practicality is the job of the police, but is it not part our job?

 

If only it were that simple.

 

I'm sure no normal, sane person wants meth labs in the neighborhood, but as I understand it, getting rid of them is not always easy.

 

So in the meantime, the parents in the neighborhood have no other choice but to protect their kids in any way that they can, and if the way to do that is to keep the kids indoors or to let them outside only when they can be there to directly supervise them, I can't imagine that they should be criticized for doing that.

[mommymilkies]

It just seems to me that we would rather yell at the mother for letting her child play outside because of a nearby meth house than get together as a neighborhood and get rid of the meth house. We hunker down in our houses and say it is the police's job.

 

And yes in practicality is the job of the police, but is it not part our job?

Well, meth houses are incredibly toxic and explosion hazards, so that one I would leave to the cops after I reported it! :lol:

 

And I agree, it ENTIRELY depends on where you live, as well. I have lived in NY, crew up in Cincy, traveled all sorts of places and lived in many locations. My feeling of safety is MUCH higher here than anywhere. I was barely comfortable even letting my kids play on the playground *with me* when I lived in Rockford, for example. :leaving:

[Dad 4 Boys]

Now, he walks to the liquor store alone, and soon I may start him walking to the library alone, about a 2 mile round trip.

 

Does he carry his library card and fake ID in the same wallet?

[Catwoman]

Does he carry his library card and fake ID in the same wallet?

 

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

That made me spit out my coffee!!! :D

[SKL]

Well, Hell's Kitchen is between where dd is and where she needs to get. I'm not taking the chance of having her walk past it. That is the part where I'm taking things personally. Here in my neighborhood, free range isn't a good idea. I'm sure in your neighborhood it is fine. I can't imagine you would let your kids run free in my neighborhood.

 

Maybe not, but where did I say you must let your child walk alone in that neighborhood?

 

I said there was a risk to kids never being unsupervised. I didn't say you must never supervise your kid.

 

If I lived in a patently dangerous neighborhood, I'd arrange opportunities for my kids to free-range somewhere else.

[Lara in Colo]

 

If only it were that simple.

 

I'm sure no normal, sane person wants meth labs in the neighborhood, but as I understand it, getting rid of them is not always easy.

 

So in the meantime, the parents in the neighborhood have no other choice but to protect their kids in any way that they can.

 

 

I agree, but the unfortunate end point is that we live in fear and they get to run free. Advance a few more generations and we are no longer a society. We have taught our children to tolerate fear and evil and not stand up to it.

 

There are no answers, but I don't think that good beating up good makes it better.

[shinyhappypeople]

 

I agree with that. I can't live in fear my whole life or have my children live in fear because something might happen. Life is short, precious, and fleeting. We never know when are card is up, but you can't live your life in fear if you want to grow, want to live.

 

And I am not naive about what's out there, i just chose to not let the weirdos out there win by forcing me to not allow my children a childhood.

 

Exactly. You said it much better than I have.

[unsinkable]

It just seems to me that we would rather yell at the mother for letting her child play outside because of a nearby meth house than get together as a neighborhood and get rid of the meth house. We hunker down in our houses and say it is the police's job.

 

And yes in practicality is the job of the police, but is it not part our job?

 

I agree with you in theory...but I've read articles in the paper about the danger faced by the moms who try to get rid of the drug dealers on their streets.

[Dad 4 Boys]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

That made me spit out my coffee!!! :D

 

Will he take his books into the liquor store or his booze into the library?

[wendyroo]

Sometimes it is so hard to rationally discuss fears because a lot of really bad things could happen...the chances are just so infinitesimally small that I choose not to worry about them.

 

When I had my first child my mom was horrified to find out that I would put the baby down for a nap and take the baby monitor out in the backyard to read or garden. Someone could break into the house, she said, and take the baby while I was outside. I agreed that someone could do that. They also could take the baby while I showered or at night while I was sleeping or by gunpoint from his high chair.

 

I've checked the crime statistics for our neighborhood. All of those things could happen, but that is a risk I'm willing to take.

 

Wendy

[Dad 4 Boys]

Wait a minute. The liquor store?!

 

See Post 111 in this thread.

[HS Mom in NC]

I'll tell you why.

 

I can see the elementary school from my house in the suburbs. It's a middle class neighborhood with white collar professionals and low crime, but it's not always safe.

 

There have been 2 separate stranger abduction attempts on elementary aged girls in the last 10 years. Both involved a van pulling up to a child walking home from after school activities and trying to pull them into the vehicle. Most children at that school are picked up by a parent and driven home, walked home by a parent, or siblings walk home together in groups of 2 or more.

 

My husband and I had the kids out in the evening in the summer at the park next to that elementary school and the police stopped us, told us to go home and lock our doors because there was a suspect they were looking for.

 

Another time the neighbor saw an adult male jumping out of her back yard in the evening.

 

Count up the number of people who have been victimized by pedophiles, bullies, and the like. Sadly, there's a reason to fear for children.

[Lara in Colo]

I agree with you in theory...but I've read articles in the paper about the danger faced by the moms who try to get rid of the drug dealers on their streets.

 

 

You took the meth house example to literally.

 

How about the jerk who won't give up his seat to the elderly lady?

We turn our eyes and say "not my problem"

 

If we don't speak up when it is "just bad" it won't get better, it only gets worse.

[Parrothead]

Maybe not, but where did I say you must let your child walk alone in that neighborhood?

 

I said there was a risk to kids never being unsupervised. I didn't say you must never supervise your kid.

 

If I lived in a patently dangerous neighborhood, I'd arrange opportunities for my kids to free-range somewhere else.

 

 

Sweetie, this entire thread is about how awful it is we as Americans don't let our children run free in their neighborhoods out of fear.

 

I'm trying to point out that at times that fear is justified. Don't tell me (not specifically you SKL) that my kid needs to learn street smarts by having do deal with junkies on a regular basis. Even if all she is dealing with are leers and wolf whistles.

 

Just because I can't let my kid be free range doesn't mean she isn't going to be lacking in knowing how to purchase tickets and navigate the subway system in the big city. Or that she won't know how to go to the store an make a purchase. Do your free range kids know how to shop on Amazon? Mine does. She also knows how to use my debit card to go buy in an buy a gallon of milk when mom is too sick to do much except drive to the store.

 

i think things equal out at some point.

 

My kid knows what to do if she is home alone and someone is trying to break in. She knows what to do if the black helicopters show up. She knows what to do if the debit card is declined. Unexpected circumstances. Just because I can't let her be free range doesn't mean she doesn't have other mad skills. And that is probably the same with other kids who have more or less helicopter parents.

[unsinkable]

 

 

 

You took the meth house example to literally.

 

How about the jerk who won't give up his seat to the elderly lady?

We turn our eyes and say "not my problem"

 

If we don't speak up when it is "just bad" it won't get better, it only gets worse.

 

 

Oh, gee...my bad.

 

But it is really literally happening to women and families a few miles from here.

 

[kitten18]

 

Sweetie, this entire thread is about how awful it is we as Americans don't let our children run free in their neighborhoods out of fear.

 

I'm trying to point out that at times that fear is justified.

 

No one has said that ALL neighborhoods or situations are safe. :confused:

[Lara in Colo]

Oh, gee...my bad.

 

But it is really literally happening to women and families a few miles from here.

 

 

I get that and the meth house was a bad example. I seem to full of bad examples today.

 

Hmm perhaps not a good day to teach math.

[renmew]

Does he carry his library card and fake ID in the same wallet?

 

 

Um, that's what we call the little corner shops around here. He will buy a soda or something like that.

[unsinkable]

 

 

I get that and the meth house was a bad example. I seem to full of bad examples today.

 

Hmm perhaps not a good day to teach math.

 

 

No worries. I'm glad you elaborated.

[LizzyBee]

I grew up in a very rural area, 5 miles outside a town of 250 people. Very safe area, very little crime.

 

Except for the little girl who was kidnapped from her car while her mother was waving at her from inside the grocery store.

 

Except for the escaped serial killer who knocked on the door of the home on the farm bordering ours to ask for food and water. I had nightmares while he was out of prison.

 

Except for the man who was murdered mafia-style, shot multiple times for torture before finally being killed.

 

Then there was my teen cousin who was kidnapped from the beach outside her home in FL. Her brother came out to tell her to come in for dinner, she said she'd come in in five minutes. She never made it. She was tortured, raped, and murdered.

 

These crimes were 35-45 years ago. They affected me far more than the crimes I've seen reported on TV.

 

I live in a safe, suburban area now. Yet, in one of the wealthiest nearby neighborhoods, there have been multiple attempted kidnappings of teenage girls walking home from school. I can't even imagine being the parent of one of those girls and thinking about the horrible possibilities if my girl had not been fortunate enough to escape.

 

I try to walk the line where I'm not making my dds afraid to live their lives, but I'm instilling a healthy sense of caution in them.

[Parrothead]

Honestly I don't think anything good can come from this discussion. Those who are free range parents think the others are overprotective nimrods who won't let their kids experience life and an idyllic childhood. The more helicopter parents think the others are nut-jobs who don't give a rat's patootie about safety in this evil world we live in.

 

Not everyone is living in safe suburbia. Not everyone is living in the inner city. Parents know the odds, know their neighborhoods, and know their kids. Let's give everyone the benefit of the doubt that they know how to properly and know when to properly allow freedom to play outside, walk to the store or park, ride bikes around the neighborhood, walk to school and talk to the neighbors.

[Mom-ninja.]

 

 

I've checked the laws of my state. I am allowed to leave my child under age 16 in a car with the engine running. So I don't. I am allowed to leave my kids in the parked car with no engine running as long as it isn't in front of a tavern. So if someone confronted me, I would not be afraid. I would tell them that there is a much higher risk of them being sited for calling the cops for no reason.

 

 

 

My state says no child under the age of 6 can be left unattended. So if it ever happens again I'll tell the person to go ahead and call the cops.

[speedmom4]

Unfortunately I was scarred during my childhood and have been very fearful ever since. My stepfather's daughter was hit by a drunk driver while riding her bike during the middle of the day. She was killed and I lived with the fear and sadness that resulted from that experience.

 

Then when I was around nine I was playing outside by myself and a woman was walking down our street. All of a sudden a van screeched up the street, opened the door, and I heard someone screaming at the woman and dragged her in. I don't think anyone believed me but I was terrified by that. I imagine it was a domestic issue but as a child I was just scared. A LOT!

 

I admire people who are a bit more free with their children. I hope those people will be patient with the fear others have.

 

Elise in NC

[Rebecca VA]

Military bases have turned into nanny-states. When I lived on one 15 years ago, police and social workers would drive around looking for kids riding bikes without helmets, playing near the street, etc. Not to say those are good things for kids to be doing, but the government workers were just looking to get families in trouble. My husband, because of his job, had to attend leadership training courses, and social workers would drill them for hours on the necessity of mandated reporting, even on things like spanking (legal spanking, not beatings). A military base near us has made it illegal for children to play outside, even in their own backyards, unless a parent is outside with them. (I could go on and on about the lives overzealous military social workers have destroyed, but I'll stop. :) ). I imagine things are worse nowadays.

 

Those kinds of things caused me to live in fear for years. I was far more afraid of government tattletales than kidnappers.

[Dad 4 Boys]

 

Um, that's what we call the little corner shops around here. He will buy a soda or something like that.

 

 

I figured as much. It was just funny when I read it. I couldn't help making a smart alec comment about it. I could just picture Little Johnny reaching his money up to the counter and asking for a 12-pack of Bud or something similar.

[Renthead Mommy]

I wouldn't say people are afraid, but they certainly are taking precautions against known predators.

 

You don't let your child walk to the park alone or play there alone here unless you are comfortable with your child's ability to defend himself against ..... bears,

 

 

 

In this thread I was expecting pervy old men, druggies, bullies, and the like.

 

I never expected bears to fall into these lists! LOL!

[shinyhappypeople]

Sweetie, this entire thread is about how awful it is we as Americans don't let our children run free in their neighborhoods out of fear.

 

I'm trying to point out that at times that fear is justified. Don't tell me (not specifically you SKL) that my kid needs to learn street smarts by having do deal with junkies on a regular basis. Even if all she is dealing with are leers and wolf whistles.

 

Just because I can't let my kid be free range doesn't mean she isn't going to be lacking in knowing how to purchase and navigate the subway system in the big city. Or that she won't know how to go to the store an make a purchase. Do your free range kids know how to shop on Amazon? Mine does. She also knows how to use my debit card to go buy in an buy a gallon of milk when mom is too sick to do much except drive to the store.

 

i think things equal out at some point.

 

My kid knows what to do if she is home alone and someone is trying to break in. She knows what to do if the black helicopters show up. She knows what to do if the debit card is declined. Unexpected circumstances. Just because I can't let her be free range doesn't mean she doesn't have other mad skills. And that is probably the same with other kids who have more or less helicopter parents.

 

 

No, it's not. It's about parents having the freedom to make reasonable choices regarding supervision for their own children without fear of reprisal or judgment.

 

FWIW, Parrothead, if I lived in your neighborhood, I would probably make choices that look similar to yours. I'm not a reckless parent, I don't ignore real risks, nor do I lack common sense. It's not like that at all.

[Joker]

 

 

The article says they won't allow anyone younger than 14 to enter the park without an adult, but it doesn't say anything about them wandering around alone once inside. I haven't seen anything that says the family can't split up once in the park.

[Wheres Toto]

I think it's definitely something that it's impossible to make a cookie-cutter ruling - any child over x years old should be able to do x.

 

I live in a very safe neighborhood in a nice suburban area. But, we do have bears, including a family that likes to use my yard as a thru-way from the woods to the river. We have at least one dog that is always outside unleashed, barks like a lunatic at everyone, and the invisible fence only works part of the time (a pitbull). We have a river that is fairly deep and fast moving in parts. We have a bunch of houses that were condemned by FEMA after flooding from Irene and Sandy, that there have already been emails going around about kids being seen going in and taking stuff (the free-range kids in my neighborhood - they are 6, 8 and 10).

 

I also have one kid who has a complete and total lack of common sense and impulse control (he ran in front of a -thankfully very slowly- moving car to "Battle the Big Monster"!). So, I don't let my kids roam the neighborhood and they are only outside in our yard unsupervised if I can have the front door (which opens in the back of my house) open and I'm just popping inside for some reason.

 

Nobody walks to school in my town. There are no sidewalks anywhere, no shoulders on most of the roads, no grassy area to walk on, and the roads are all winding, hilly ones that everyone speeds and there are lots of bikers.

[bettyandbob]

I read the Disney link. Boy am I glad they did not have that rule when I visited. Such a rule would have ruined our trip. Our dc are spread out a little. So, I had ds 13 at the time , dd 10 at the time and ds 6 at the time (with down syndrome). We went to the park and stayed together until after we ate lunch. Then, dh took younger ds back to our room to rest, dd and I went to what ever thrill rides she wanted and older ds hopped on WDW transit and went to whatever park he wanted (usually EpCot). We all met back to dinner together. Being able to have despite divergent needs was the great thing about WDW. I'm sorry other families who need that opportunity won't have it.

 

My dd has walked to high school just over a mile away. Some of her friends parents think this is abusive (PSA--if you don't want your opinion of my parenting to get back to me don't tell your kid who is friends with my kid). There is a shopping center which is probably just around a mile away in another direction if you take the bike paths our community has. dd knows the route. However, she also knows she is not to walk there solely on paths. She knows where to get off the paths and stay visible on the street. I've shown her how to do this because I think it's important for her to go places on her own if she needs to take care of something.

 

I started my older two (15 and 18 now), doing independent things as young as I could. When they passed the pool swim test, they went to the pool on their own. The earliest the pool lets dc do this is 8. So my dc did it at 8. I would say "you can go and I will meet you there soon". The pool is about 200 yards from my home, but not visible from my home. The first time they did this, I followed and watched. After that it was routine. I gave them money and waited outside of stores while they made purchases so they could practice doing things alone. The WDW experience was great because I knew the bus routes went to parks, disney hotels and downtown disney. Mostly ds wanted to go back to Epcot, but he also went to Downtown Disney and listened to music the Virgin store.

 

I understand that some places you cannot just turn your dc loose, but if you live in a place like that you probably need to work extra hard finding things for your dc to do on their own.

 

I was walking to school alone at 6. I spent hours on bike riding miles far from home in my teen years. It was when I was without my parents that my internal sense developed. I knew how to handle situations based on having watched my parents, but without them I was just more alert to my surroundings. And so I developed the "what feels right" "what feels wrong" internal sense while I practiced what my parents had done in my presence.

 

BTW, I can't really drive dd. She's a grump in the morning. She needs the morning walk to get her head ready to learn. She needs the afternoon to decompress.

 

Anyway, I think it's important for parents to find things for kids to do on their own.

[Word Nerd]

nm

[Crimson Wife]

No one has said that ALL neighborhoods or situations are safe. :confused:

 

 

There was an overgeneralization made earlier in the thread that crime has decreased. While this is true for the overall U.S. crime rate, it is not true in all areas. The national crime rate is irrelevant- what matters is the trend in one's own locality. The 'burbs used to be very safe but have become less so in recent years as gang violence has spread out of the inner city ghettos. Media hype did not create this problem and I'm not being paranoid to grant my children less freedom than I had growing up.

[Renthead Mommy]

The article says they won't allow anyone younger than 14 to enter the park without an adult, but it doesn't say anything about them wandering around alone once inside. I haven't seen anything that says the family can't split up once in the park.

 

No they haven't said you can't split up once in the park, but 5 and 6 year olds want to skip the pool and hit the park much earlier than 12 and 13 year olds. And if you are staying in the park you get earlier access then the general public. So this means the 12 and 13 year old can't come meet you in the park at lunch time now. Or go to a different park on their transit system alone.

[Supertechmom]

 

 

In many cases, people who have made seemingly more relaxed choices about autonomy are not naive nor do they believe people "aren't out there."

 

Humans need to be educated on what signs, tools, and techniques predators use. Humans need to be educated on how to spot those signs, and humans need to be supported in protecting their intuition and safety.

 

 

This !!!! We have had two attempted stranger abductions. Yes, I am not making that up. My kids are fairly spread apart so one was when the oldest was an infant and then when the third was around 4 but looked 2ish. The attempts were foiled because of the skills my father taught me when I was little and the support of the people around.

 

He was always telling me things when we were out and about - look around when you are out, purposely turn around and look behind you, look people in the eye, address them with hello and a curt nod without stopping, approach your car from the rear and look in the windows and take note of the back seat and floorboards. His favorite saying was give people the impression when you are walking that if crossed or bothered you could whoop their ass without missing a step. He always let me even as young as 4 deal with sales people and adults. It was like he was a personal coach that would clue me in on what I should do and when things looked "wrong". He would point out the oddball people in crowds and tell me to look around, use my brain..... Do they belong, are they with people, do they look nervous, does it look right??? He taught me in crowds you really shouldn't see the same person from store to store and when at events, when you look around, people should be looking at the event, not you. If they are, take note. He taught me to listen to that inside voice. If I was walking alone, did it feel right? Are the bushes too overgrown? Are there places someone could hide? Enough light? People around? He taught me it was okay to look around and decide Nah, I don't like this set up and it doesn't feel right. Despite being southern, he taught me to walk and talk without apology or politeness. Walk with purpose and intent, head up, looking around...... He was the first person to tell me that it was okay to walk away from people asking for help ( you know like my dog is lost help me find it, help load this in my car, help me carry this to my car). Told me never get in arm's length ever of someone when out and about, never step closer to someone asking me for directions, told me there were far worse things than being shot or stabbed and to take my chance with the gun....... Never get on an elevator without giving myself permission to GET OFF if i didnt like who got on regardless of whether it would hurt their feelings or not. If he was alive today, he would be having a thousand ducks over everyone with their phones in their hands, earbuds in and such....the potential to be distracted by such devices is high.

 

He taught me a lot of little things over the years that when added all up gave me a skill set that has helped several times when I found myself in situations that could have ended badly for me.

 

I don't believe I am paranoid or too crazy. :) I go where I want when I want. I teach my kids much the same stuff. Keep a look out, realize where danger could be, don't worry about being polite when your inner voice is screaming.

[Ruby Rose]

I am trying to loosen the reigns somewhat with my children as they age. However it all depends on the place. I don't even let my kids play in my mom's front yard because she lives on a very busy, main road. I do not let my kids wonder around a store alone. Frankly, I don't even want them on a different aisle out of eyesight.

 

I have begun to let them walk the dog down the street in our neighborhood and up to their friends house about 6 long doors down. We each have at least .5 acre across per yard. But, not knowing where my kids are for long periods of time (or even short periods of time), no way, no how.

 

Had I done what you did, I would have been worried the entire time my child was gone, and probably called the class to make sure she was there.

 

We live in a jacked up world. It's not just the media. There are some major freaks out there. Things I used to do, like shop at night, I just don't do anymore. Places that were once safe ARE NOT SAFE anymore.

[Joanne]

I am trying to loosen the reigns somewhat with my children as they age. However it all depends on the place. I don't even let my kids play in my mom's front yard because she lives on a very busy, main road. I do not let my kids wonder around a store alone. Frankly, I don't even want them on a different aisle out of eyesight.

 

I have begun to let them walk the dog down the street in our neighborhood and up to their friends house about 6 long doors down. We each have at least .5 acre across per yard. But, not knowing where my kids are for long periods of time (or even short periods of time), no way, no how.

 

Had I done what you did, I would have been worried the entire time my child was gone, and probably called the class to make sure she was there.

 

We live in a jacked up world. It's not just the media. There are some major freaks out there. Things I used to do, like shop at night, I just don't do anymore. Places that were once safe ARE NOT SAFE anymore.

 

While I disagree with your last paragraph, what you describe for your childrens ages seems to me to be totally age appropriate. I have 3 teens, and I know, in general where they are most of the time. At 4 and 6?? I *always* knew where they were.

[fraidycat]

Your friends would have really had a conniption fit at my SIL's house one day a couple years ago.

 

All four of the kids (DS, DD, niece, and nephew) walked about a mile one-way to go to the gas station store - alone. At the time, they were 5, 7, 8, and 11. Little entrepreneurs that they were, when they realized they needed another dollar to get some item they wanted, they even offered to wash people's windows for a dollar while they were filling up their tanks. :laugh: I was just glad that offered to *work* for the money, instead of just asking someone to give it to them.

[Catwoman]

This !!!! We have had two attempted stranger abductions. Yes, I am not making that up. My kids are fairly spread apart so one was when the oldest was an infant and then when the third was around 4 but looked 2ish. The attempts were foiled because of the skills my father taught me when I was little and the support of the people around.

 

He was always telling me things when we were out and about - look around when you are out, purposely turn around and look behind you, look people in the eye, address them with hello and a curt nod without stopping, approach your car from the rear and look in the windows and take note of the back seat and floorboards. His favorite saying was give people the impression when you are walking that if crossed or bothered you could whoop their ass without missing a step. He always let me even as young as 4 deal with sales people and adults. It was like he was a personal coach that would clue me in on what I should do and when things looked "wrong". He would point out the oddball people in crowds and tell me to look around, use my brain..... Do they belong, are they with people, do they look nervous, does it look right??? He taught me in crowds you really shouldn't see the same person from store to store and when at events, when you look around, people should be looking at the event, not you. If they are, take note. He taught me to listen to that inside voice. If I was walking alone, did it feel right? Are the bushes too overgrown? Are there places someone could hide? Enough light? People around? He taught me it was okay to look around and decide Nah, I don't like this set up and it doesn't feel right. Despite being southern, he taught me to walk and talk without apology or politeness. Walk with purpose and intent, head up, looking around...... He was the first person to tell me that it was okay to walk away from people asking for help ( you know like my dog is lost help me find it, help load this in my car, help me carry this to my car). Told me never get in arm's length ever of someone when out and about, never step closer to someone asking me for directions, told me there were far worse things than being shot or stabbed and to take my chance with the gun....... Never get on an elevator without giving myself permission to GET OFF if i didnt like who got on regardless of whether it would hurt their feelings or not. If he was alive today, he would be having a thousand ducks over everyone with their phones in their hands, earbuds in and such....the potential to be distracted by such devices is high.

 

He taught me a lot of little things over the years that when added all up gave me a skill set that has helped several times when I found myself in situations that could have ended badly for me.

 

I don't believe I am paranoid or too crazy. :) I go where I want when I want. I teach my kids much the same stuff. Keep a look out, realize where danger could be, don't worry about being polite when your inner voice is screaming.

 

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

 

That's the way we were taught, too, and is the way we've raised our ds, as well.

 

I'm sure that some people will view it as being extreme, but they need to remember that you posted a list of warnings and precautions that I'm sure you learned over a period of many years, as we did, so it's not like anyone was trying to scare their kids 24/7 or make them paranoid lunatics. I'm sure no one is giving their kid every single one of those warnings every single day. We do it when it's warranted, not all the time.

 

It's all about developing awareness and knowing how to identify warning signs and how to avoid being a victim whenever possible. I think it's empowering, not frightening.

[Ruby Rose]

 

While I disagree with your last paragraph, what you describe for your childrens ages seems to me to be totally age appropriate. I have 3 teens, and I know, in general where they are most of the time. At 4 and 6?? I *always* knew where they were.

 

 

IME it seems the "bad parts of town" are spreading into the "good parts." Not to spark any controversy, but just going to my local "small town" Walmart has me surrounded by thugs that look like they wouldn't think twice about robbing me for some drug money. Meth is a huge issue as of late. Last week, there was a homeless guy (I assume because he had a shopping cart FULL of his stuff.) walk into the store as I was walking out. He then turned around and followed me to my car! I've had weirdos follow me or my daughter around the store, peaking around clothing racks, etc until I complained to the manager that the guy was freaking me out. Of course, he denied it. At a different store, while shopping for a gift, a man tried to coax my 4 year old son to follow him to a different aisle with me standing right there! Then there is the guy "selling" gospel CDs in the parking lot. Whatever, if you don't know me, stay away from me. The latest freak-a-zoid followed my 4 year old into a 1 person bathroom at our tiny little library while I stood 10 feet away waiting for them both to use the restroom. Needless to say, I burst through the men's bathroom and gave him what for. FTR I don't usually let my son go alone, but he and DD had emergencies at the same time so I sent them to separate restrooms.

 

All of these things happened WITH ME THERE! What would have happened if I wasn't? I don't even want to think about it.

 

What did I ask for for Christmas? Shooting lessons!

[Orthodox6]

 

All the stories we now hear about abductions and kidnappings and murders that "happened in small town USA, where you never would have expected it."

 

 

Yet, incontrovertibly, these things did happen.

 

The world is just as wicked now as it was when I was young. The wickedness, however, is more openly audacious. That influences me to be more cautious. My children did/do not have so much out-of-the-house freedom as I did in the 1960s.

[bettyandbob]

Yet, incontrovertibly, these things did happen.

 

The world is just as wicked now as it was when I was young. The wickedness, however, is more openly audacious. That influences me to be more cautious. My children did/do not have so much out-of-the-house freedom as I did in the 1960s.

 

 

I do not believe the world is worse or that there is a significant percentage more of people who want to hurt children now. I think these crimes are regularly reported now. I think some crimes were never reported because it was somehow a shame on the victim/victims family. My fil was raped by a family friend who took him to see a movie as a treat. He was young, but he did tell his parents. They were upset, but they did nothing because it would make their own family look bad. I think significant numbers of crimes were never reported for these reasons.