Can a child learn to read without all those lil' phonics readers?

[alisoncooks]

I'm just thinking over some things here...

 

My DD hates phonics readers -- and I don't blame her. Quite frankly, most have ridiculous sentence structure and story/plot.

 

So, I was thinking -- why use them? Do we need them?

The amount of reading DD does in any given reading lesson (Phonics Pathways + 1-3 pages of ETC) is pretty substantial and at her level. Couldn't we just write/read a few practice sentences from PP or Reading Pathways ... and call it a day? Is there anything magical about reading from an actual book/reader ... especially if she is not enjoying it.

 

She's not yet ready for beginning chapter books, like Frog & Toad (which I love). I'm more referring to those phonics readers, like Bob books and such.

 

Surely, many years ago, children did not use phonics readers (short /a/ book, short /o/ book, etc etc -- a gazillion little books to practice each small new step in reading).

 

Anyone NOT use these type of lil' readers (including things like Bob books, I See Sam, Nora Graydos, Primary Phonics readers, CLP readers, etc). What did you DO until your child could read ACTUAL books.

[Durriyyah]

We did very few phonics readers when DD13 was learning to read, though she did like them at first because she could read the whole thing. Usborne books has a few books where there are two lines of text, one at the top with easier reading for the child, and one at the bottom that is a few levels higher. You can read only the top line, only the bottom, or both, and the story still makes sense. There's also some Dr. Seuss books that seem like they are for beginning readers like Go Dog Go! We just signed up for the Scholastic book of the month club long ago and we have a great collection of fun books for them to listen to, and some easier books they can start reading.

[Walking-Iris]

I do use and like some of those readers, but I will say that I think you could learn to read without them. I used Dr Seuss books heavily with my 1st kiddo. I would partner read with him. What he couldn't decode/sound out I would read it and explain the phonics of it. You could also use Mother Goose rhymes. The good thing about phonics readers is their sequential nature, but Dr Seuss tries really hard to keep the phonics simple and somewhat controlled as well. And tend to appeal to kids.

 

McGuffy Readers are vintage and somewhat phonics controlled in the early readers, I believe. So there has always been some idea that learning to read in a sequential manner helps.

 

You can teach and practice reading with almost anything. But you may be making more work for yourself because IMO you would have to look at all of those "real" books with an eye towards what your child can read. I wouldn't give a child a book with a lot of blends or silent e words etc if they are still learning CVC words. I think one would run the risk of discouraging a child if there were a lot of words they couldn't read. The sequential nature of phonics readers means that they are going to experience some success. If you choose not to use them then you will have to make your own lessons using those "real" books.

[La Texican]

Not everybody likes it, but my kid did well using reading eggs video game. Sometimes I had to hold his hand and keep him going (it's not all fun). Sometimes he would do many lessons ata time on his own and for fun. Before that he did a hooked on phonics video game that taught him all of the letter sounds. Reading eggs will teach that if he doesn't know already. After reading eggs my son was able to read ez readers and soon I had him read Little Golden Books three times weekly. Right now he's reading The Boxcar Children. Recently he read a few chapters of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory outloud. I just sit with him three times weekly and make small corrections as he reads to me. Reading eggs got us to that point quickly. It worked well for my nephew also.

 

[beaners]

We start right in with things like Frog and Toad. She reads the words she has covered, and I read the other words.

[JudoMom]

I never really used them with any of my boys--I used a couple here and there, but not regularly.

 

They are all great readers, and all can read most anything I put in front of them.

 

I used Phonics Pathways as our main program. We did anywhere from 1/2 page to 2 pages a day, depending on their age and focus. At times I used ETC or Plaid Phonics to supplement.

[Susie in MS]

I just used Phonics Pathways and added Toad & Frog, etc and McGuffey when dd was ready. I can't stand those readers that make no sense.

[briansmama]

I don't care for them either, but my ds liked them when he was first learning to read because he could read a "book." We plan to make readers for my second ds. The Dr Seuss books are great for exposure to sight words, and I love the pp suggestion to begin with Frog and Toad and let your dc read the words he can in those books.

[Mandylubug]

We are moving away from PP amd using AAR. The books that came with it are great and my girls beg to read those books in bed nightly. They hated BOB books as well.

 

Eta: the first book has 14 stories in it, hard back and very nice. You can see a great sample on their wwebsite and purchase separate from the program.

[dbmamaz]

i never really used them. my kids all went to public school at least for K, but still, the amounts of readers they got at school varied widely, and my older two were reading at that level before K, and my youngest still was not at the end of k . . . i used mostly Dr Seuss books with my older two, and also some Elephant and PIggy w my younger - high interest books with simple words. My older ones . . . it just never occurred to me to use those sorts of books and the younger one hated them, so i let it go

[morgan]

My youngest was not a fan either, she disliked that they typically don't make any sense. We checked out a few from the library, but she enjoyed reading board books much more. They have simple words and sentences, with lots of pictures. Eventually she moved on to easy picture books. I think teaching with picture books and easy chapter books is totally doable. However, my dd5 won't read Dr Seuss because she finds them nonsensical. So they aren't always the answer :)

 

Reading eggs is a favorite at our house too!

[Holly]

We use the McGuffey readers. They find them very interesting.

 

Have you looked at the Memoria Press phonics? It looks like lists of words to practice reading (no pictures).

[jillian]

Dd taught herself completely. We read little bear and frog and toad but that's just to boost confidence and practice reading out loud

[momtoamiracle]

we didn't use them. I'm using K12 phonics and their readers are not like that. They are little books with stories with words that match the sounds they are learning. Yesterday my son read a book about Frank and his hot rod. My boy loved it! Talked about lug nuts and how the hot rod wouldn't run so it was a hunk of junk! And then how he fixed it. (sounds we were going over were "ank" and "unk".

 

I had gotten some Dick and Jane books cause I thought I should - my boy wasn't a fan...

[TheBugs]

Our librarian recommended Margaret Hillert books, such as the Dear Dragon series and beginning to read fairy tales. I think my children read through almost all of what the library had. In the back of the books there is a list of all the words in the book and some lessons and activities to build reading and phonics skills. My children liked them a lot more than Bob books.

[Deee]

I think most readers are ghastly, but then I loathe Dr Seuss as well (I know that puts me in a tiny minority). We used Steiner/Waldorf methods when DS12 was young, including the beautiful Elsa Beskow books. I don't think readers have to be dumbed down or monosyllabic. Far better than Dr Seuss, in my not so humble opinion, is Lynley Dodd's Hairy Maclary series and its spin offs. Fabulous rhythm and rhyme, funny, well illustrated, descriptive and no talking cats.

 

DS would have loved a book that mentioned lug nuts!

D

[CupOCoffee]

I used the leveled readers from Reading A-Z dot com. My 16 year old used Tommy Tales, and my 11 year old used some of their other leveled readers. I just went there (after all, it's been SO long ago) and they have so many many books. I remember that I got a free 30 day membership or something, and I downloaded hundreds of the leveled readers! You could download as much as you wanted.

 

For my Dd, there were also lesson plans I downloaded too, and we would do a phonics lesson, and then there was a little book we read at the end of the lesson. We had a lot of fun printing the books and making construction paper covers for them!

 

So, if you wanted another option on readers that might be a little more exciting, check them out. Of course, I also agree with the others, NO you don't have to use phonics readers to learn how to read.

 

~coffee~

[Ellie]

We never used any vocabulary-controlled basal readers. We started off with library books. :-)

[Arcadia]

My boys hated the phonics readers. We gave them all away to a family friend. Instead we started with Nursery Rhymes, children's poetry, simple non-fiction readers and some Caldecott award picture books. They liked the Thomas the Tank Engine step into reading series.

 

we didn't use them. I'm using K12 phonics and their readers are not like that.

 

K12 phonics has a free iPad app out.

[Marie131]

We never used any vocabulary-controlled basal readers. We started off with library books. :-)

 

Us too :)

[stripe]

My older reader appeared to like the Pathway Readers. I have preferred the Free and Treadwell readers. They're not phonics-based or very controlled/small vocabulary , but they are pretty easy reading, with appealing content (fairy tales and poems). Some have tons of repetitious stories (like the Gingerbread Boy, where we get to read the same thing multiple times per page). Both my readers have liked them. I didn't bother with the Pathway Readers for the younger of the two, more because she was ready for simple books sooner.

[Tanikit]

I taught some basic sight words along with the phonics in the beginning and that enabled us to move faster into normal books - the readers I used initially were actually sight word readers which made sense (and some of them are pretty boring too). To emphasise the phonics in real world print worked better though - so if we did a particular phonics rule then I would point out words in the environment and in the books I was reading her that followed that rule. She read parts of store signs, sounded out shop names, read newspaper headlines and cereal boxes, words on T-shirts, menus - anything and everything when she was still learning to read - it just meant I had to be awake and know what phonics rules she had covered. You can do this whether you add in sight words or not.

[HelenNotOfTroy]

My son preferred to read on the computer for a while, so he did Reading Eggs and we read together on Progressive Phonics, which has the parent read most of the words and the child read the ones that fit that books lesson.

 

He also read the I See Sam books on the computer or the Kindle. He started liking the Bob books after he was reading fluently.

[boscopup]

My kids and I like I See Sam soooooo much better than Bob books. They're the same idea, but more interesting stories and cuter pictures. The first 52 are free online.

 

My oldest didn't use the little readers. He jumped into a mid-first grade level of reading and skipped that whole sounding out phase. My middle one is steeped in the sounding out phase, and he can't handle real books yet, but he WANTS to read real books, so those little readers are helpful just to give him something he *can* read until he's ready for real books. We've also done one story of Free and Treadwell and a bit in McGuffey. He really loves the Star Wars Phonics readers from Scholastic. They are more like a real book, but the words are low level, easy to read. He also helps some with Dr. Seuss, but he's not really ready to read many of those words yet.

[delaney]

My 6 year old loves McGuffey readers! But he is an old soul who loves anything Burgess as well.

[Tanyali]

We used MCP Phonics, which had the little pull out books every 10 lessons or so. They weren't that tedious though. We did that and I just constantly read aloud with her watching as my finger went over each word.(frog & toad, James & the Giant Peach, ans so forth) Also starfall.com was a winner for us.

[pitterpatter]

Are you talking about the little paper readers? Or, leveled books?

 

If you're just talking about those little paper readers and have a good library system, I would recommend leveled books. My DD loves reading book books...gives her a since of accomplishment. Plus, the text flows better than the paper readers. There are context clues to draw off of and predictable text.

 

Here's a post I wrote on my blog that might help you get going in that direction.

 

http://bluehousescho...el-readers.html

 

I also keep an ongoing list of most of the books DD reads. We do use those little paper readers too, but I don't list those.

 

http://bluehousescho.../lets-read.html

 

For the newest readers, I recommend the Step-Into-Reading series, level 1 (ones written by Molly Coxe are a good starting point). Or, Stone Arch Readers, level 1 (books written by Melinda Melton Crow). If you're past that, DD likes Biscuit books by Alyssa Satin Capucilli. There are several of those.

 

We are at the point where we're working more on fluency now. We do phonics instruction twice a week (used to be three times a week) and just read the other days. I usually have DD read a leveled book and then a shorter paper, phonics type reader that focuses on newer skills each day. She also reads her copywork and a lot in math. Singapore is good about using age-appropriate words in their curriculum.

 

We are using this for copywork to reinforce sight words and fluency. She reads the poem each day (usually twice before starting her copywork), then copies two lines of text and re-reads all that she's written from her paper.

 

Just $3.99 in eBook format!

http://www.carsondel...rceBook/804097

 

ETA: I just reread your post. I see you really are just referring to those little paper books. There really are many regular books out there that your DC should be able to read. You just gotta find them.

 

http://www.randomhousekids.com/brand/step-reading/step-1/?views=40#searchresults - I'd skip the TV/movie tie-ins. Those are usually not the best.

 

http://www.capstonepub.com/product/9781434241467 - They are pretty boy oriented, but DD loves them! Some are a little more difficult than others. You can kind of judge by their titles.

[pitterpatter]

The only thing with these are that they are soooooooo long for a beginning reader. DD has read several, but they were a bit of a chore, if she wasn't having a good, zippity reading day. They are older, though, so smaller, older libraries might have a lot of them.

 

Our librarian recommended Margaret Hillert books, such as the Dear Dragon series and beginning to read fairy tales. I think my children read through almost all of what the library had. In the back of the books there is a list of all the words in the book and some lessons and activities to build reading and phonics skills. My children liked them a lot more than Bob books.

 

[alisoncooks]

ETA: I just reread your post. I see you really are just referring to those little paper books. There really are many regular books out there that your DC should be able to read. You just gotta find them.

Yep, we have quite a few Leveled Readers, but thanks for the links to the blog. Got some more on my wishlist now. :)

 

Margaret Hillert is good -- we have several of those, too. I also have the Treadwell readers and I like them (though I admit to not being fond of the McGuffey readers).

 

 

 

Thanks for all the feedback and ideas!

[momtoamiracle]

My boys hated the phonics readers. We gave them all away to a family friend. Instead we started with Nursery Rhymes, children's poetry, simple non-fiction readers and some Caldecott award picture books. They liked the Thomas the Tank Engine step into reading series.

 

 

 

K12 phonics has a free iPad app out.

 

I had tried one K12 app but it didn't work on my ipad. I don't know which one it was, I'll have to look them up on itunes.

 

we're mostly using the phonics program for spelling now as he can read almost anything but the really big words. I still use the readers for fluency since there are no words he has to guess. That's one reason I like them, he doesn't have to guess any of the words.

 

oh my son likes the step into reading thomas books too. I've gotten several from Goodwill.

[HS Mom in NC]

My older two learned to read with real books. We didn't use curriculum. We just used Ruth Beechick's 30 page pamphlet Homestart in Reading as a guideline. I used curriculum with my youngest because I was too busy, but there's no need for leveled readers.

[CatholicMom]

I don't think you *have* to use phonics readers but just so you know I think if you fish around you can find a lot cuter books than Bob Books. Catholic Heritage Curriculum has phonics readers that have cuter illustrations. Still simple illustrations, but cuter, and the stories make a bit more sense. Usborne has phonics readers with really nice, colorful illustrations, though they are not the tiny books (I think) and so are more expensive. They are more like soft-cover picture books. There is also Dr.Seuss, of course, and kids usually like those, though you will likely have to share the reading work or else have the child only read a few lines or a page a day (whatever is right for them). There is also "Dick & Jane" books which have a lot nicer illustrations and are still very easy readers. I hate the illustrations in the Bob Books, personally, and I think even the illustrations being nicer goes a ways toward taking kids a bit more seriously.

 

You could also do shared reading with the Frog & Toad books, Little Bear, etc. Only thing is I think it would be a bit harder on you to figure out which words you should be expecting her to read, and which ones you should read. You will have to constantly assess because there will be words she can read along with ones that are too advanced for now, and you can't throw them into decoding them all at once.

 

I'm not familiar with Phonics Pathways, but it might be enough. I don't think there's anything magical about the little readers. I think it depends on if there's enough reading for them to get practice with reading fluency, or not. Even if there is a lot of reading disconnected sentences here and there (like ETC), I think it's important to give them opportunity to practice fluency (reading one sentence after the other, stopping at the punctuation, etc).

[Laura Corin]

We did use Bob books, but I also wrote little books for Hobbes, based on his own life. He loved those.

 

Laura

[IceFairy]

We owned all the BOB Books. I sold them because DS disliked them. We do like the Kindergarten Phonics Readers from Christian Liberty Press, along with their book Meeting New Friends. After a bit of time with both DS was reading level 1 books.

[IceFairy]

We owned all the BOB Books. I sold them because DS disliked them. We do like the Kindergarten Phonics Readers from Christian Liberty Press, along with their book Meeting New Friends. After a bit of time with both DS was reading level 1 books.

[foxbridgeacademy]

I didn't use those with DC, instead we used starfall(free) and iknowthat.com($28 at HSBC), worked great.

[Mergath]

I had to use readers for dd- she didn't give me much of a choice. She started learning to read pretty early, and wanted to read herself. But when you're three and you've only mastered short vowels, that doesn't leave much other than Bob books. The other problem is that she has a freakish memory, and she'd already memorized every "real" book in the house from hearing them read aloud. She also memorized the readers word for word after one read-through, so for her to get any real practice sounding out words and not just reciting the books from memory, we had to keep a steady stream of new readers coming through. We pretty much cleaned out the thrift stores, lol. Now that she's reading "real" books, it's a lot easier to keep new material coming in.

 

I'm sure dd could have learned without the readers, but they certainly made things easier for me and kept dd happy.

[Stellalarella]

i've had kids that really needed all the extra practice of the phonics books (BOB books and the like) because they learned to read at a very incremental pace. I've also had one kid who didn't need them and Phonics Pathways was enough. They certainly aren't necessary, just handy forthose who are really, really slow to progress.

[EMS83]

Yes they can!! We haven't touched phonics readers because I just can't make myself like them. We use Phonics Pathways which has its own funny sentences, but it's all part of the lesson. About halfway through the book it all just coalesced with her and she reads everything now (which brings about a whole different set of challenges!). We're still working through the book for the bigger and more complicated words, but she can read a vast majority of what she comes across.