Absolutely at the end of my rope....

[waa510]

:grouphug: I think your dd is depressed. IMHO, that could account for everything in your post. :(

 

That was my first thought reading the OP's posts, honestly. Please don't easily dismiss this as I have a lot of experience in the mental health arena and my degree was in clinical psych with a neuroscience focus.

[astrid]

She goes to bed at 9 pm. She normally takes 1 mg of melatonin, but says she's been able to sleep lately. I think I may start adding it back in, but she fights me on it too.

 

I'm actually planning on printing what I've written here and taking it to her GP to have a chat. She's a nice lady and she'll listen and give me suggestions.

 

DD picks her face...I know it relieves anxiety...

 

I too am not one to just jump on the medication bandwagon. I think there are times for it though and we may need to go that route with her. I will talk to my DH and make an appt with her GP to discuss this myself and then take her where she needs to go from there.

 

I want to thank you all for your insights/suggestions thus far. It has really been most helpful. I can see where we are overlooking things and where we need improvement. I want her to be a productive strong girl. I want her to be driven to learn on her own and to do her best. I know not everyone is like that, but I know it's in there. I see it in some things she does.

 

Oh and she's not real OCD about any one thing. But she does like a tidy room with everything in it's place...but she's not tidy about appearances, or clothing. She doesn't care if clothes pile up for a few days, but generally her room is tidy.

 

GOSH--- we are not meds people either, I think Molly has been on antibiotics THREE times in her 15.5 years, but I cannot tell you the difference it's made. Please--- strongly consider it. It will change your world. It has ours.

 

About OCD behaviors--- you usually don't see them. Picking her face is one. For Molly, the big one is hair pulling, which we didn't even notice until her hair was so thin! Another that she has, but we never saw, is that she says that for instance if her right arm itches and she scratches it, she has to also scratch the same spot on her left arm. She says she's always done it. We NEVER noticed that! And she's an only child! It's not like we have ANYONE else to focus on but HER! :-(

 

Also, so, so many OCD behaviors are not physical manifestions that you would see. Cycling through thoughts, mental images, etc. ALL OCD, but not outward manifestations. She probably doesn't even know she does it. But her poor mind is probably working overtime. Heck, the "getting the last word" and "over-talking" are probably OCD-related.

 

Bedtime-- again, I seriously doubt that she's going to sleep at 9 and getting a full night's rest. Overtiredness can really ramp up OCD symptoms, so it's probably a vicious cycle she's caught in. Please, consider the meds. She's a good girl-- she wants to do well. I suspect she just doesn't know how to break the cycle she's in.

 

astrid

[Mergath]

OP, I wasn't even diagnosed with actual OCD until a couple years ago because I don't have any of the more obvious outward symptoms, like compulsive hand washing. Mine is more obsessional- I would sit there and obsess over the most idiotic things for hours. If anyone tried to interrupt my obsessing, I got snappy and upset because when you have OCD, you feel like the world is going to end if you stop worrying about whatever stupid thing you have stuck in your head. There was one point where I didn't sleep for about three days in a row because I thought if I slept, even for a few minutes, a maniac was going to come out of the attic and kill us in our sleep. Now I can look back and see how ridiculous it was. At the time, I was freaking out. And the only thing that helped me before I went back on my Celexa was escaping into books.

 

The obvious symptoms, though- not sleeping, withdrawn behavior, etc.- seemed more like depression, and it took a good doctor to figure out everything that was going on. My brain is all kinds of messed up. ;)

[Mergath]

Also, so, so many OCD behaviors are not physical manifestions that you would see. Cycling through thoughts, mental images, etc. ALL OCD, but not outward manifestations. She probably doesn't even know she does it. But her poor mind is probably working overtime. Heck, the "getting the last word" and "over-talking" are probably OCD-related.

 

Yup. Very likely. I do something similar to dh, even on meds, where if I'm worrying about something, I have to make him promise me three or four times in a row that we'll deal with it. It used to bug him, but now he knows what it is and goes along with it. If I don't do that, I feel like my brain is going to explode or something.

[Pippen]

If I were in your shoes I'd see her GP and ask for a referral for an assessment by a pediatric neuropsychologist. Neuropsychs typically do a very thorough evaluation, beginning with an appointment with the parents, and then follow up with 6-10 hours of testing. Besides those possibilities that have already been mentioned you may want to look into Executive Function Disorder. Individuals with EF problems frequently have problems in areas that involve planning-whether that be academic, daily life skills, or relational problem solving.

 

Also I want to mention that learning disabilities often take on the form of schoolwork avoidance. And that what appears to be a good night sleep can be deceptive if there's an undiagnosed sleep disorder or seizure disorder.

 

Obviously none of us know what's going on--if anything-- and because there's so many possibilties I would definitely suggest the GP--Neuropsychologist route as you're likely to get a more thorough evaluation that way.

[Live2Ride]

And remember, yes, she will need to do things on her own in college. But she isn't in college yet. So don't expect her to be.

 

I try..it is hard for me to just sit back and let her be because I know her potential is great. She's so smart and has drive for what she wants even though she is totally unsure of what that is. I do expect though that she can follow a schedule and be truthful about it. She knows if she has a problem that she can ask. Sometimes she is just too proud to admit needing help, but also lazy because she knows it will require work on her part. I've got to where I ask her throughout the day how it's going. She now thinks I'm being a hoverer...we can't do anything right at this age huh, lol.

 

We have a new plan today after a somewhat emotionally charged morning involving me locking myself in my room for a time out because she was following me around trying to engage me in yet another battle. She says she wants to work. So far I've seen her skipped work being completed. Our activities have been adjusted so that we can stay home and focus. Then we'll head out tonight as a family to grab some icecream on the way to fencing class...hopefully she'll be wanting it.

[astrid]

She's so smart and has drive for what she wants even though she is totally unsure of what that is. I do expect though that she can follow a schedule and be truthful about it. She knows if she has a problem that she can ask. Sometimes she is just too proud to admit needing help, but also lazy because she knows it will require work on her part.

 

Again, this sounds like depression/anxiety/OCD to me.

 

I'm glad your morning has turned around-- and as we all know, a little ice cream can work wonders! :-)

 

Hugs to you,

astrid

[justamouse]

I appreciate what you are saying. And I'm going to write some things down to discuss with my husband. This has been going on for about four years now, just getting worse each year...

 

because the relatinoship keeps getting worse and worse.

 

 

I do try multiple times a day to check in with her, to tell her fun things, to ask her to cook or help me with things. I get negative responses every single time.

 

that is called being a teen. The older my kids get, the more i realize that THE most important years are 1-8. That's it. If the relationship has flaws in it they will compound X 100 when the teens hit. Fixing them is going to be hard at this point, and it's going to take you not getting insulted every time she gets an attitude. Teens get attitudes. How bad it is depends on where your relationship is. If you are too busy for them when they are 1-8, they will be too busy for you when they are older.

 

I'm not kidding. She 'hates to cook' (though loves looking at cookbooks. I even got her a cute apron and a subscription to Cooking Light for Christmas since she loves looking at it from the library)-but I ask her to pick something she likes out and we'll get the stuff for it to make together, but she wants no part in helping to make it or says I will later and then when I remind her about getting the recipe to me she states that she hates to cook anyways...even if I offer to make it she'll make an excuse about it. It is SO frustrating as I think I'm trying but she refuses to want to do anything-unless it's drawing or writing. She hates hiking-it's too hot, she hates to shop with me, she doesn't want ice cream so she doesn't want to go with me, she will sometimes go see a movie with me (I try to schedule regular simple outings with just her, but she rarely wants to do anything with me). She'll bike ride with my other student though. She makes it clear that 'I don't have to come'... Perhaps I do need to tell her I love her even more, but I do it multiple times a day because I felt there was too much negativity, but I get, yeah right, or sure, or something of that nature and I simply respond that I do love her no matter what she thinks.

 

This is the end result of not enough positive in her emotional account. Would you want to spend time with a person you thought didn't like you? You would reject their obvious overtures or you would be doubtful of their sincerity.

 

I'm not an overly affectionate person, but I never push her away if she comes to me.

 

She should never always have to come to you. Listen to yourself right here. How would you feel if you had to always be the one one to ask for affection? This isn't a stranger, this is your daughter. And, I have had the same exact problem, so I'm not speaking out of ignorance on this one. As my kids got MUCH taler than I, I realized I stopped hugging them less and it started to cause a separation. Yet I kiss up my littles. I had to go out of my way and my own comfort zone of feeling like I was hugging an adult all the time and remember to hug them, too. And, I am NOT a hugger. But I have to.

 

 

I have tried to hug her more during the day or kiss her and I think I'll need to up it even if she tries her prickly pear routine. She is the nicest when none of us are talking to her or asking her to do anything either fun or not. She doesn't want to play tennis with us, doesn't want to bike ride out in town with us...etc. She prefers to sit in that room all the time. She wants to ride horses, but doesn't want to groom them, care for them, tack up or anything that requires a lot of effort.

 

A part of that is personality and a part is being a teen, too. My Dh has the be dragged everywhere, and then has the greatest time. I've figured out why, after 17 years of marriage. First, we're introverts so doing anything is hard for us. But, apart from that, the more time I spent with his mother, the more I realized that THE FIRST thing out of her mouth when presented with anything is negative. And it's a habit she allowed him to take up. And he became it. Start reframing stuff for her. My daughter now doesn't do much with us, because she has school and works, and she's just tired and needs down time. So we allow her that without holding it against her. She's about to leave the nest, but she's not disconnected from us, she loves spending time with us when she's rested.

 

Also, she could be overwhelmed and ALL of anything, just puts her into a spin. You have the horses, so that is a huge responsibility and they have to be taken care of every day. Even the farms owners I'm friends with hate having to do it every day, yet they love the horses and push beyond how they feel to be responsible animal owners. That's a big lesson for a kid. Heck, adults have trouble mastering that one. It's why we didn't buy a farm, because after working on one, I realized that I had enough people to feed in my life, I didn't want to have to take care of animals, too. :D

 

 

Recently I found out about a 4-H horse club and she was excited to go. So we went and had a good time. I even sold her pony (she hadn't fooled with him in over a year since he really was too small for her now) and searched for a more suitable horse for her and my other student. I found one, we looked at her, rode her and brought her here on Saturday. She said she was excited about it. How many times has she gone out there and tried to pet her or offer her a treat? Not once...I've asked her to go out with me. She'll 'come later'. It never happened... We tried letting her keep her priviledges (earlier this year) as long as she kept up her work and we thought 'this will work'...she likes to do her thing and we want to let her because it makes her happy...but it never failed that she would lie about finishing her work, break our online safety rules or she would hide things...so we took things away...

 

When my kids are persnickity, I have a mental list I run down.

 

Are they eating well?

 

Are they getting enough sleep.

 

Are they taking their vitamins? (You would be surprised how this effects them. If I don't take my iron, I don't want to get out of bed. Period. When I take it? I can rule the world, you'd better get out of my way. The difference is night and day. When I was in HS my mother didn't see that I was anemic. I would come home from school and sleep until dinner, eat, do homework and go back to sleep. All I needed was some iron). I suggest you have her do into the Dr for a physical and everyone's iron levels isn't 'right' at 11. At 11, I still don't want to get out of bed. ;-)

 

Girls need fish oil to help regulate their hormones during their cycles. It's just something you have to take into consideration when you think about girls. We can control this stuff because we're adults, but I distinctly remember having that conversation with my oldest DD about how you don't get to be a bitch because you have PMS. It's a hard lesson in self control. You have to have that conversation with girls.

 

We have battled severe depression in my house, and anxiety that prohibited even getting int he car. An excellent diet, vitamins and light exercise has enabled them to get off meds. I know people don't want to hear that, and it's not the case in every situation, but if anyone could have seen this person before, and now, the difference is night and day. Simply with the right food.

[Pippen]

Again, this sounds like depression/anxiety/OCD to me.

 

 

I suspect it's all a matter of what you're familiar with because it sounded just like Executive Function issues to me. B) Which of course is why it's important to involve professionals.

[justamouse]

GOSH--- we are not meds people either, I think Molly has been on antibiotics THREE times in her 15.5 years, but I cannot tell you the difference it's made. Please--- strongly consider it. It will change your world. It has ours.

 

About OCD behaviors--- you usually don't see them. Picking her face is one. For Molly, the big one is hair pulling, which we didn't even notice until her hair was so thin! Another that she has, but we never saw, is that she says that for instance if her right arm itches and she scratches it, she has to also scratch the same spot on her left arm. She says she's always done it. We NEVER noticed that! And she's an only child! It's not like we have ANYONE else to focus on but HER! :-(

 

Also, so, so many OCD behaviors are not physical manifestions that you would see. Cycling through thoughts, mental images, etc. ALL OCD, but not outward manifestations. She probably doesn't even know she does it. But her poor mind is probably working overtime. Heck, the "getting the last word" and "over-talking" are probably OCD-related.

 

Bedtime-- again, I seriously doubt that she's going to sleep at 9 and getting a full night's rest. Overtiredness can really ramp up OCD symptoms, so it's probably a vicious cycle she's caught in. Please, consider the meds. She's a good girl-- she wants to do well. I suspect she just doesn't know how to break the cycle she's in.

 

astrid

 

True, but it's also full blown teenagerism.

[Live2Ride]

GOSH--- we are not meds people either, I think Molly has been on antibiotics THREE times in her 15.5 years, but I cannot tell you the difference it's made. Please--- strongly consider it. It will change your world. It has ours.

 

About OCD behaviors--- you usually don't see them. Picking her face is one. For Molly, the big one is hair pulling, which we didn't even notice until her hair was so thin! Another that she has, but we never saw, is that she says that for instance if her right arm itches and she scratches it, she has to also scratch the same spot on her left arm. She says she's always done it. We NEVER noticed that! And she's an only child! It's not like we have ANYONE else to focus on but HER! :-(

 

Also, so, so many OCD behaviors are not physical manifestions that you would see. Cycling through thoughts, mental images, etc. ALL OCD, but not outward manifestations. She probably doesn't even know she does it. But her poor mind is probably working overtime. Heck, the "getting the last word" and "over-talking" are probably OCD-related.

 

Bedtime-- again, I seriously doubt that she's going to sleep at 9 and getting a full night's rest. Overtiredness can really ramp up OCD symptoms, so it's probably a vicious cycle she's caught in. Please, consider the meds. She's a good girl-- she wants to do well. I suspect she just doesn't know how to break the cycle she's in.

 

astrid

 

I plan to. I was just agreeing with you about not being one to just jump into medicating :)

 

I will start her sleep meds back this evening. She was fighting me so bad about needing them that I just left it be...I do try and pick my battles...this is a hill I am just going to have to take and win I guess, lol.

 

She takes vitamins and I am going to add fish oil in. It can't hurt and DH and I take it.

 

As I said, I'm writing these various things down and have made a call to her Pediatrician about it. They've not seen anyone else and rarely see her except when necessary, but we've chatted about issues over the years. She is a super sweet doc and encourages us to continue homeschooling. I'm sure she can help point me in the right direction.

 

I want my girl to feel happy. I want her to enjoy things again. She used to....I surely don't treat her as if I don't like her. We try to be more loving towards her in an attempt to counterbalance all the negativity she feels we harbor. Some of that is just trying to get attention. I know that, but I feel that it's more than that as well.

[astrid]

You go, mama! And again, as the psych expert poster said above, professionals are the way to go here-- this is just all my own armchair thoughts, based on what we've been through/are going through right now. No psych degree here--- American Studies, Political Science, education, and a grad degree in educational leadership. :-)

Plus, parenting an only-- not like I've got tons of experience there either. :-)

 

astrid

[Jean in Newcastle]

CountryGirl, somewhere along the way you need to find out what behaviors are under her control and what are not. Calling her lazy isn't fair if she's dealing with depression or anxiety or ADHD or . . . that might be getting in the way If she is having those issues it might need a combination of new coping skills, nutrition and supplements and medication. Even if it is all governed by bad mental habits on her part, changing those reactions is not easy and won't be simply a matter of you putting in your input of happy parenting and her popping out a happy response. From what you've said, these reactions and ways of dealing with the world have developed over a long time and it's going to take a long time to counteract them. I know that you probably know this. And I know that you have a lot of hurt and frustration and even anger on your own part to deal with. A good family counselor might be a place to start.

[BugsMama]

Mama, is it possible that you are also struggling with depression? Read your comments again on this thread- there is a lot of negativity there. I understand it's a hard situation and you are struggling with her actions, but your words also say to me that you may need some help.

 

Perhaps an appointment for you would also be wise when you take DD in?

 

(said with a lot of hugs and kindness)

[astrid]

True, but it's also full blown teenagerism.

 

 

Yes. But I contend that there's a whole lot more mental illness around in teens than we as a society care to admit. Many get through it fine. We all had our share of angst. Sometimes it is just kids being selfish jerks.

 

As with any negative change in behavior or health, sometimes it's wise to seek professional help. Often what looks like just jerky, unpleasant teenager crap belies underlying issues that can become horribly destructive.

 

Just my two cents-- YMMV.

 

astrid

[Live2Ride]

CountryGirl, somewhere along the way you need to find out what behaviors are under her control and what are not. Calling her lazy isn't fair if she's dealing with depression or anxiety or ADHD or . . . that might be getting in the way If she is having those issues it might need a combination of new coping skills, nutrition and supplements and medication. Even if it is all governed by bad mental habits on her part, changing those reactions is not easy and won't be simply a matter of you putting in your input of happy parenting and her popping out a happy response. From what you've said, these reactions and ways of dealing with the world have developed over a long time and it's going to take a long time to counteract them. I know that you probably know this. And I know that you have a lot of hurt and frustration and even anger on your own part to deal with. A good family counselor might be a place to start.

 

Hence the doc appt soon :) I am certainly not perfect and can find fault in ways I've handled things for sure. I understand how frustration can manifest itself and I see it. I was just not seeing how I could reach her as we were trying different things that didn't seem to be working for her good. We also felt it was something more, but considering we don't know of anyone with a kid like this, its hard to compare its degree of what might be going on.

 

I will say though that she seemed more rested on the melatonin and hence why I kept giving it, but she fought me after a while saying she was fine and I explained that was so because she was on it and feeling good. I think I'm going to have to pull the mom card and just tell her that its for her benefit and that I do see the difference when on it and so she is going to keep taking it.

[justamouse]

Yes. But I contend that there's a whole lot more mental illness around in teens than we as a society care to admit. Many get through it fine. We all had our share of angst. Sometimes it is just kids being selfish jerks.

 

As with any negative change in behavior or health, sometimes it's wise to seek professional help. Often what looks like just jerky, unpleasant teenager crap belies underlying issues that can become horribly destructive.

 

Just my two cents-- YMMV.

 

astrid

 

By all means, I don't disagree. But to a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail, you know?

[gardenmom5]

Start saying 5 true, good things about her. You're criticizing too much and it doesn't' matter if you think you're not, she is hearing nothing but negative. That needs to change or pretty soon she will not care what you think and do what she wants because she hasn't heard the positive outweigh the negative yet. Find another 5 nice things to say. .

when giving praise, it's not only needs to be true, it needs to be worded in a clear enough way that the child understands what they DID to get it and more importantly, what they can do to get more. (iow: be specific)

e.g. I appreciate you setting the table at dinner - no, thanks for helping with dinner.

I had struggles with one son at that age. he has learning disabilities, and he honestly didn't think he was smart becasue things that were easy for others were hard for him. (despite his test results). I realized just telling him he was smart wasn't reaching him. instead it was "it was really clever when you ___" he was skeptical for quite awhile, but he listened when I said it.

 

Are her professors going to go through every problem with her to make sure she stays on task? Is her boss going to follow her around making sure she doesn't dawdle? My philosophy is that my job is to prepare teenagers for adulthood.

 

I know of one COLLEGE student who lived at the college who failed a class because daddy wasn't able to phone one morning to wake her up for a final. Kids should be able to get themselves up.

My 7yo doesn't like to get dressed. when he refuses, many a time I've threatend to just take him in his pj's. he hasn't taken me up on that once. (I know, college students wear their pj's to class. . . . . even some grad students in my dd's program.)

 

Have you ever come across a kid though who seriously has to have THE LAST WORD, every single time. I'm soo not kidding. She will mutter enough to be heard as we cut her off to send her to her room. I attempt to not engage, but she gets going and is like a cattle dog on a cow...it's exhausting some days. She is quite disrespectful in her tone and actions. She's the kind that if I try to discreetly ask if she'd like a piece of gum/or remind her to not forget her teeth care, she'll automatically get upity/loud with me saying she brushed her teeth already what was I trying to say...

when she's muttering, is she going to her room? If so, put in earplugs and ignore her. if she's not going, refuse to engage - she may be being verbal, but you've set down the rule and consequence and as long as that is happening, she's NOT getting the last word

 

some things it's time to back off and let her live with the consequences. if she doesn't engage in good dental hygene, she'll get more cavities and have to live with her teeth being drilled and filled. she can do things to help earn money to pay for the fillings. if she doesn't want to, it can cut into her clothing allowance. oh well, c'est la vie. make it her problem.

 

Having had teen daughters, hormones can have a nasty impact. one daughter doesn't abosrb vitamin D, and that had many repurcussions. (though she was very dedicated to her studies.) physical exercise makes a difference too.

 

and just a pet peeve of mine - it's not "free" agency, it's just "agency". irritatingly enough it's stuck. choices (good and bad) have consequences and we don't have any power over the consequences we experience except by making choices. if it was truly "free" there would be no consequences, either positive or negative.

[Anne in CA]

So many good things have been said here, there was something to like in almost every post. The Hive Mind is amazing.

[Live2Ride]

when giving praise, it's not only needs to be true, it needs to be worded in a clear enough way that the child understands what they DID to get it and more importantly, what they can do to get more. (iow: be specific)

e.g. I appreciate you setting the table at dinner - no, thanks for helping with dinner.

I had struggles with one son at that age. he has learning disabilities, and he honestly didn't think he was smart becasue things that were easy for others were hard for him. (despite his test results). I realized just telling him he was smart wasn't reaching him. instead it was "it was really clever when you ___" he was skeptical for quite awhile, but he listened when I said it.

 

I agree. She just does it all with such grumpiness...I still try to say an honest nice thing.

 

I know of one COLLEGE student who lived at the college who failed a class because daddy wasn't able to phone one morning to wake her up for a final. Kids should be able to get themselves up.

My 7yo doesn't like to get dressed. when he refuses, many a time I've threatend to just take him in his pj's. he hasn't taken me up on that once. (I know, college students wear their pj's to class. . . . . even some grad students in my dd's program.)

 

:eek: on the dad calling.

 

when she's muttering, is she going to her room? Yep talking all the way Lol. If so, put in earplugs and ignore her. if she's not going, refuse to engage - she may be being verbal, but you've set down the rule and consequence and as long as that is happening, she's NOT getting the last word. She stays there until she has calmed down and can talk to us more appropriately.

 

some things it's time to back off and let her live with the consequences. if she doesn't engage in good dental hygene, she'll get more cavities and have to live with her teeth being drilled and filled. she can do things to help earn money to pay for the fillings. if she doesn't want to, it can cut into her clothing allowance. oh well, c'est la vie. make it her problem.

 

Having had teen daughters, hormones can have a nasty impact. one daughter doesn't abosrb vitamin D, and that had many repurcussions. (though she was very dedicated to her studies.) physical exercise makes a difference too.

 

and just a pet peeve of mine - it's not "free" agency, it's just "agency". irritatingly enough it's stuck. choices (good and bad) have consequences and we don't have any power over the consequences we experience except by making choices. if it was truly "free" there would be no consequences, either positive or negative. You know, you are right. It's just agency. Its funny but she has always hated the word 'consequence' since she was young, lol.

[Live2Ride]

So many good things have been said here, there was something to like in almost every post. The Hive Mind is amazing.

 

Thats why I came here after an especially frustrating day... :)

 

So far the day has worn on well. She is almost completely caught up with her assignments and she was about 2 days behind schedule. She has been completely pleasant to everyone all day. It's been so nice, but I know she really has to work at it so I know the issues will pop up again... I still plan to talk to her doc about it. There may be something simple to try first.

[gardenmom5]

if she hates the word consequnce, then hit the thesaurus and use something else. Overwhelm the dear girl. (1dd was a language junkie. language was a toy to her.)

 

 

 

Synonyms: result, effect, outcome, end result, corollary, aftereffect, aftermath, bottom line, can of worms, chain reaction, effect, end, event, fallout, follow through, follow-up, issue, outgrowth, payback, reaction, repercussion, sequel, sequence, spin-off, upshot, waves

Synonyms backwash, conclusion, , development, fate, fruit, issue, outcome, outgrowth, precipitate, product, result, resultant, sequel,

Related Words ramification; denouement (also d{eacute}nouement), echo, implication, afterclap, afterglow, aftershock; blowback, by-product, fallout, offshoot, ripple, side effect (also side reaction),

[2boysmom]

You cannot punish her out of a stage. She's 15. My 18 yo is brilliant in so many ways, and yet every time she goes somewhere, she never remembers to figure out how she's getting home (no, no license, she doesn't want to drive yet), yet I could hand her a checkbook and she could run the house. Remember if she needs a ride home? nope.

 

Give her all her stuff back.

 

Start saying 5 true, good things about her. You're criticizing too much and it doesn't' matter if you think you're not, she is hearing nothing but negative. That needs to change or pretty soon she will not care what you think and do what she wants because she hasn't heard the positive outweigh the negative yet.

 

Find another 5 nice things to say.

 

Tell her you love her 10 times a day. Hug her and tell her the story about how she was born and how happy you were to have her.

 

Ask her help to do chores, do them with her --if you fold laundry together, you can talk, and that creates relationship--and then thank her for helping you.

 

Sit at the table and do the work with her. High school work is all about talking, relating, sharing. You cannot be a sheet checker in high school. --OK *some* kids, maybe. But most of high school is talking, and relationship isn't happening if you are at the table being the warden. Go through every assignment and problem with her. Yes it's hard, yes she should know better, yes, you are right, but this is the age. It is. So you have to get through it.

 

Play together. Hike, pack a picnic, watch a movie, whatever it is you do for play, play together.

 

Stop arguing her fault in it. You can not argue her out of this. She's not mature enough to see it, so start making emotional deposits and then, later, if you have to pull out a consequence, don't engage her in why. Take her at her word that she doesn't know what she did. Some kids need help becoming emotionally intelligent. That's ok. That's what you're there for.

 

IN my house WE do the laundry, WE do the dishes, WE ...we do it. My job is homeschooling. If I am the house's maid, I cannot homeschool. It's either or. So WE do it. I get right in there with them.

 

This does get better. Really. I promise. I brought my Dd home sushi tonight after she watched all of the kids for me and Dh and we watched The Princess Bride and showed eachother everything we got the others.

 

totally agree with the above.

 

School would be the better choice I think for the op, unless a total paradigm shift occurs in the opposite direction. I would start with online schooling first (like the Potter's School) and see if things don't change with deadlines and discussion with peers. If that didn't work, then I'd move for PS.

 

Prayers though, as you work through this difficult time.

[CupOCoffee]

Lots and lots of good stuff in here that I am going to take straight to heart for dealing with DD. I do not think her issues are as extensive of OP, but I agree 1,000% with the person who said there was *something* good in every post here.

 

OP, I will keep you and your daughter in my prayers. I had a lousy relationship with my mother and I swore that if I ever had a daughter it would be so different...I seriously have made a list of all the good suggestions here! Thanks everyone!

 

~coffee~

[Live2Ride]

totally agree with the above.

My boys are 13 and 15. We do school together. Life is good. They are also independent with school when it comes to scheduling.

They like school. We have great discussions. It's not an me vs. them.

We learn and grow and continue to grow in hs high school together.

 

 

Prayers though, as you work through this difficult time.

 

 

She enjoyed school too and has great days still (today being one). It's certainly not me against her as I try to discuss things througout the day with her, but she doesn't want to. Oh and my ds is a dream to school...the genders are different in many aspects at this age. I'm from a large family and am the oldest of 3 girls and 4 boys...there are many days were tangents happen. It never bothers me. its the incessant attitude/negativity, excessive drama, and disrespect that I'm fighting. Its not so much the content of what we're learning. They've always had a hand in what they would like to learn.

 

I'm at the kitchen table or couch or walking through our small (1400 sq ft) home to discuss things with them, check in to see if they need help. Offer to help them look up things. Talk about what they are learning. They both like to be independent. She asked for that. Begged for it really. Didn't want me holding her hand and it went well for a bit...then she started slacking off here and there making excuses. Becoming beligerant when assignments were found unfinished after telling us they were (and us reminding her to just double check to make sure). I am not in and out all the time. I feed our farm animals before school starts. We have three activites to attend during the week and two of those are in the evening. I have no other responsibilities. Occassionally we'll do a fencing lesson midday on one day of the week, but its planned in advance and they'll just bring books along.

 

Thank you for the prayers. I appreciate them.

[2boysmom]

Thank you for the prayers. I appreciate them.

 

 

Sorry. I modified my post later recognizing you aren't as I described earlier after reading through your other posts. (I confess I didn't read much after Justamouse's initial posting). Please forgive.

You've gotten a lot of good advice I think here.

Praying here as I see you have really struggled to do the right thing for many years.

[LizzyBee]

Always homeschooled Ds, took DD out while in 1st grade. She has NO desire to attend school-has this fear of bullies it seems. Personally I'm afraid of what she will start to be like after being there (though I haven't expressed this within her earshot ever!). She will go to the local public school and it's not good...

 

Bedtime is 9 pm here. She gets up at 5:10 to be there at 5:30. We live right down the street from our building. Her reward each day was to be able to get on the computer to draw with her friend, email other friends, have friends to sleep over or have her ipod. She still tries to pull the "I didn't see that" card when we find unfinished things...it's rediculous. She dwadles so much that the exercise often gets put off. But this past week I've been making them go outside after lunch for a bike ride or somewhat brisk 2 mile walk with the dogs. They also use the wii fit. I plan to keep sending them out to do so at lunch no matter what.

 

Eight hours of sleep is not enough sleep for a teenager. I'm curious why the seminary classes are so early. My dh never had classes earlier than 7:30 am when he was in seminary.

[Elizabeth in MN]

She wants to do her version of fun...not ours...being outdoors is not her version of fun unless she's swinging on her swing with the ipod...

 

Well, every human is this way. Your version of fun and her version of fun are different. It doesn't make either bad at all.

 

Someone asked by the seminary classes are so early. It's an LDS thing. High School kids have early morning seminary, it's normally held at a building near the public school they go to. I think it's a way to teach teens to start the day with the Lord. It's nor seminary lime most Christians think - it's basically a scripture study class.

[TengoFive]

You've gotten a lot of good suggestions so far. I don't really have suggestions, per se, but your posts struck a chord in me. I need to add some brief thoughts, as they came to me.

 

First off, I'm not saying this to bash dh, but he's a very negative person. My self-esteem is in the toilet due to his constant negativity. This has led to depression. Now, no one can criticize me without me taking it personally. I beat myself up for not getting things done and for anyone else to comment on it, just feels horrible. For me, its not like I don't know that I'm not doing well. I know it all too well and want to change, or have more energy, but I can't. I beat myself up for laziness, etc. Even when my parents come and mention something one time, it feels like nagging, because I've said it to myself so many times.

 

Secondly, my dh has realized what his negativity has done to me and tries to be more positive. However, to my ears it just comes off as fake. I know he doesn't really think what he's saying, he's just saying something positive because he knows he should. It's not his fault really, because he is trying. Its just not helpful really.

 

Third, I guess I do have a suggestion. Learn her Love Language. Your "Words of Affirmation" may not be making her feel loved. She may have a different Love Language than you and her tank isn't being filled up. DH wanting to spend time with me does a whole lot more for me than him saying something positive. I think you're exerting a lot of effort to make her feel loved and are feeling rebuffed in those efforts. Don't give up trying, but try a different way to show her.

[all4ramseys@msn.com]

You cannot punish her out of a stage. She's 15. My 18 yo is brilliant in so many ways, and yet every time she goes somewhere, she never remembers to figure out how she's getting home (no, no license, she doesn't want to drive yet), yet I could hand her a checkbook and she could run the house. Remember if she needs a ride home? nope.

 

Give her all her stuff back.

 

Start saying 5 true, good things about her. You're criticizing too much and it doesn't' matter if you think you're not, she is hearing nothing but negative. That needs to change or pretty soon she will not care what you think and do what she wants because she hasn't heard the positive outweigh the negative yet.

 

Find another 5 nice things to say.

 

Tell her you love her 10 times a day. Hug her and tell her the story about how she was born and how happy you were to have her.

 

Ask her help to do chores, do them with her --if you fold laundry together, you can talk, and that creates relationship--and then thank her for helping you.

 

Sit at the table and do the work with her. High school work is all about talking, relating, sharing. You cannot be a sheet checker in high school. --OK *some* kids, maybe. But most of high school is talking, and relationship isn't happening if you are at the table being the warden. Go through every assignment and problem with her. Yes it's hard, yes she should know better, yes, you are right, but this is the age. It is. So you have to get through it.

 

Play together. Hike, pack a picnic, watch a movie, whatever it is you do for play, play together.

 

Stop arguing her fault in it. You can not argue her out of this. She's not mature enough to see it, so start making emotional deposits and then, later, if you have to pull out a consequence, don't engage her in why. Take her at her word that she doesn't know what she did. Some kids need help becoming emotionally intelligent. That's ok. That's what you're there for.

 

IN my house WE do the laundry, WE do the dishes, WE ...we do it. My job is homeschooling. If I am the house's maid, I cannot homeschool. It's either or. So WE do it. I get right in there with them.

 

This does get better. Really. I promise. I brought my Dd home sushi tonight after she watched all of the kids for me and Dh and we watched The Princess Bride and showed eachother everything we got the others.

 

Fantastic advice! :grouphug: to OP.

[Live2Ride]

Well, every human is this way. Your version of fun and her version of fun are different. It doesn't make either bad at all.

 

Someone asked by the seminary classes are so early. It's an LDS thing. High School kids have early morning seminary, it's normally held at a building near the public school they go to. I think it's a way to teach teens to start the day with the Lord. It's nor seminary lime most Christians think - it's basically a scripture study class.

 

 

I don't have a problem with her version of fun :) I was just responding to another poster about taking her out to do fun things with us...she doesn't find them fun (but again, she'd prefer to stay home most every day which I don't feel is healthy).

 

Seminary is also early because school is early for one group of kids.

 

She and I talked yesterday and we've moved her bedtime back a half hour to actually get her into bed and relaxed and hopefully to sleep by 9 instead of 9:30-10... She'll take her melatonin again and we have created a routine for the evening. Hopefully this will be a small help to her. She wants to stay up all the time, but she doesn't realize fully yet how it's affecting her.

[Faithr]

I just want to say I completely, 100% agree with Justamouse!

[Miss Cornelia Snook]

My children are 9 down to 6 months, but this thread has been so helpful to me as I contemplate the teenage years coming soon. Thank you to all the posters. OP, I pray that you will get things sorted out with your daughter.

[Tiramisu]

You've gotten a lot of good suggestions so far. I don't really have suggestions, per se, but your posts struck a chord in me. I need to add some brief thoughts, as they came to me.

 

... My self-esteem is in the toilet due to ... constant negativity. This has led to depression. Now, no one can criticize me without me taking it personally. I beat myself up for not getting things done and for anyone else to comment on it, just feels horrible. For me, its not like I don't know that I'm not doing well. I know it all too well and want to change, or have more energy, but I can't. I beat myself up for laziness, etc. Even when my parents come and mention something one time, it feels like nagging, because I've said it to myself so many times.

 

...

 

 

Everything in this quote is worthwhile. I just deleted some bits for the privacy of the author.

 

I have recognized this exact pattern in a child who suffered from depression. She was her own worst critic. She was well aware of her failings, but as Jean in Newcastle wisely suggested, some things were not in her control--only the people around her did not realize this at first. The parents wanted to correct what they saw as bad behavior, but it wasn't really correctable by normal means of discipline. Over time, the parents became more and more frustrated and despite their best efforts, the situation influenced their feelings and their attitude toward their child in subtle ways that a sensitive child could pick up on. So the child, who already was suffering from a depression which made her act out and feel like a failure, still had to deal with the constant correction and to some degree an emotional coolness which only served to reinforce her negative feelings about herself and her family. It really became a spiral of negativity. The good news is that once steps were taken to break the cycle, things did improve quickly. Very quickly. And the positive results lasted.

[justamouse]

I don't have a problem with her version of fun :) I was just responding to another poster about taking her out to do fun things with us...she doesn't find them fun (but again, she'd prefer to stay home most every day which I don't feel is healthy).

 

 

 

Please, just be sure she's not an introvert before you pressure her to go out.

 

My mother is an extrovert and pushed me and pushed me to DO things and I HATED it. OMG, the anxiety.

 

I love people, I love teaching CCD, I love being involved in my parish, but for the most part, I could happily entertain myself in my house for weeks on end. I have tons of projects and hobbies that I quietly amuse myself with. If I go to the mall? I need to stay home in the quiet for at least 2 days to recover.

 

I would also hate to think that someone would assume that I was depressed or needed medication because I didn't prefer to be outside the house. Quite the opposite, I'm quite Tigger like.

 

My mother STILL doesn't get being an introvert, either.

[Chris in VA]

Just want to say to the OP, I really, really admire your humility and openess on this thread. A lot has been suggested, and you have answered with grace and a humble heart. Your dd is smashingly blessed to have you in her corner. And you are an example to US, of how to ask for help and consider opinions offered on a thread. Thank you.

[Live2Ride]

Just want to say to the OP, I really, really admire your humility and openess on this thread. A lot has been suggested, and you have answered with grace and a humble heart. Your dd is smashingly blessed to have you in her corner. And you are an example to US, of how to ask for help and consider opinions offered on a thread. Thank you.

 

Thank you so very much! I think that's the nicest thing I've heard in a while :) I certainly want only the best for my kids, but in a healthy way so that they become strong, caring, productive, self sufficient, honest people. There is never just one way of parenting for sure. She started pulling Ds faults and our handling of him, into a conversation yesterday and I simply stated that they were two different people with two different personalities and that while I love them both dearly, they would each be parented to suit their needs. Then I pointed out something great she had done that day and we moved on. This morning she got a little miffed about something I asked of her and while she didn't fuss out about it, she went off to her room. I let her stay for a bit and then went in and crawled into the bed next to her and hugged on her and explained myself in a gentle tone. She laid there for a bit longer after I left and has since returned with a better attitude...we will have issues again before too long, but she is trying. She doens't want to attend school and DH explained that she was on the last straw the other day after witnessing a fairly hairy day with her and I. Plus she knows if she goes to school there will no longer be piano lessons and she likes those. She is quite good too and I love hearing her play :)

 

So far we're going with exercising daily, an earlier bedtime, melatonin, a good evening routine, hugs hugs and more hugs I tell myself all day, kind words and natural consequences without engaging when she gets upset, also a balanced whole foods diet with good amounts of protein. She's not a big meat eater, but she loves protein shakes that I make with fruits or peanut butter and always add oats for filling and fiber. But I have returned some of her things since she has promised to work hard on her behavior/respect towards her family. I have no issues with having an introvert as a child, but I don't think she truely is. She is a social butterfly when with her friends or at parties. She likes hanging out with people and likes to do things in large groups. She does not however enjoy shopping of any sort, lol. Not even for clothes. I have to drag her out for that one, lol but she always ends up loving what we get...she just doesn't enjoy the work involved in it : )

 

Thanks again everyone. I'll have to update again in a week or so. Doc recommends doing this first to see if we see any improvement in behavior/mood, then reevaluate in a couple of weeks.

[Susan in TN]

:grouphug:

 

OP, I just wanted to thank you for posting this, as I've needed to hear some of this advice myself. This semester has been rough for me - emotional turmoil, constant stress nausea, sleepless nights not knowing what to do, where to turn. If my student was on drugs or something, it would be easier in a way - at least I'd know the concrete steps to take. But with my introverted ds, who often doesn't know his own mind, (and even if he does, struggles to express it), I'm continually second guessing the direction to take. Fortunately, dh has stepped in in a major way and is the one who now checks up on schedules and plans, for the most part. I just couldn't do it any more.

 

Justamouse and Tiramisu, your posts have helped me enormously!

[Susan in TN]

when giving praise, it's not only needs to be true, it needs to be worded in a clear enough way that the child understands what they DID to get it and more importantly, what they can do to get more. (iow: be specific)

 

 

 

This is interesting - the issue with my ds is that when I give him a sincere compliment on something that he really has done well and put some effort into, he often comes back with several reasons it wasn't that good or that I wasn't COMPLETELY accurate in my assessment or that he didn't really work THAT hard on it, etc., and it almost sounds like he is questioning my sincerity or intelligence for having complimented that thing. Does that make sense? How do you respond to this?

 

Sorry, I realize I'm hijacking this post. Ignore if necessary.

[dirty ethel rackham]

CG2,

 

I just wanted to give you some encouragement. First of all, bravo to you for your honesty and openness to what others have had to say. Parenting teens is so frustrating. I was in similar shoes about 3 years ago with my oldest. I figured out that a big part of his avoidance and procrastination was depression. We went with counseling as opposed to medication because I had a bad reaction to an SSRI and knew that it could be worse on a teenage brain. Counseling really helped. We were fortunate to find a counselor who encouraged my son to talk with us in his office so that my son knew he was being heard. I also was able to hear what we needed to do differently. I had been putting so much pressure on him since he was so academically talented. I needed to learn to back off on the expectations of brilliance and realize that he was a kid who was terrified of failing and terrified of growing up.

 

I realized that, although I thought he should be more independent about getting his work done, it wasn't happening. Just like the child who just wasn't getting algebra and needed more support to learn it, my son just wasn't getting this "independent work" thing and needed more support. I also had to realize that he wasn't done yet - there was still time for that maturing and independence that needed to happen for college. I needed to stop treating the situation like college was just around the corner.

 

In addition to counseling, online classes with outside teachers (well-done classes with lots of feedback and communication with others worked best) and classes at the local college helped immensely. His work ethic improved by having outside teachers with me providing structure and time management support at home.

'

Fast forward 3 years ... my son is a well-adjusted college student who is getting straight A's at school. We knew that he would not do well at a school where he was just a number, so he is at a small liberal-arts college about 3 hours away from home, where his professors know him by name and there is no where to hide. Close enough for us to come to the rescue if he got himself into a bind, but far enough to encourage him to be independent.

[elfgivas]

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

she is lucky to have you.

 

ann

[brownie]

Same here, but with a 12 year old boy. If she has no other issues: LD's, etc...

1) I would recognize that HSing requires more independence than PS

2) I would have her sign a contract that she will have to go back to public school if she doesn't comply with some minimal requirements (in other words the fundamental rules cannot be broken)...other rules can still result in revoked privileges of course.

 

Of course if the ps is that awful...you lose your bargaining chip.

[Live2Ride]

CG2,

 

I just wanted to give you some encouragement. First of all, bravo to you for your honesty and openness to what others have had to say. Parenting teens is so frustrating. I was in similar shoes about 3 years ago with my oldest. I figured out that a big part of his avoidance and procrastination was depression. We went with counseling as opposed to medication because I had a bad reaction to an SSRI and knew that it could be worse on a teenage brain. Counseling really helped. We were fortunate to find a counselor who encouraged my son to talk with us in his office so that my son knew he was being heard. I also was able to hear what we needed to do differently. I had been putting so much pressure on him since he was so academically talented. I needed to learn to back off on the expectations of brilliance and realize that he was a kid who was terrified of failing and terrified of growing up.

 

I realized that, although I thought he should be more independent about getting his work done, it wasn't happening. Just like the child who just wasn't getting algebra and needed more support to learn it, my son just wasn't getting this "independent work" thing and needed more support. I also had to realize that he wasn't done yet - there was still time for that maturing and independence that needed to happen for college. I needed to stop treating the situation like college was just around the corner.

 

In addition to counseling, online classes with outside teachers (well-done classes with lots of feedback and communication with others worked best) and classes at the local college helped immensely. His work ethic improved by having outside teachers with me providing structure and time management support at home.

'

Fast forward 3 years ... my son is a well-adjusted college student who is getting straight A's at school. We knew that he would not do well at a school where he was just a number, so he is at a small liberal-arts college about 3 hours away from home, where his professors know him by name and there is no where to hide. Close enough for us to come to the rescue if he got himself into a bind, but far enough to encourage him to be independent.

 

She already takes one class online for Spanish through BYU. She is actually starting to like it, but complained about it for some time. I think it stemmed from having to be more responsible about her work and having to deal with someone else. She wanted me to let her use Rosetta instead, but I had already spent the money and was not about to shell out more for another program. She had picked it and we were going to stick with it. She has a tutor that calls once a week to check in and review. It does help her and though she was adamant about not having a tutor, she actually likes that the most because she gets to talk to someone in Spanish :) I can still monitor her assignments online and check her login times, but so can he, lol. So I normally stay out of it except to check that she's done.

 

I would love to have her enroll in another class next year in addition to her Spanish; we will see how this year goes though. She and I have discussed that I will continue to monitor her schedule througout the day and at the end of the day before anything else happens. She seems okay with that thus far.

 

She did attempt to engage me in a battle of sorts this evening. She knew what time she was to go to bed. She got a new 3DS game today that she'd been saving for and since she had a couple of great days I agreed to swing by there. She wanted to play this evening, but also wanted to finish a movie with me that had 30 min left (watched a previous night but not finished). So we discussed what would need to happen to be able to watch it and still get into bed on time. Lets just say that it didn't happen (though I gave a time heads up). I walked back after the alotted time that we were supposed to start and she was still playing, although she was supposed to be off 10 min before anyways. She 'was saving' of course, but I refused to argue. I simply asked for the DS and returned it to my room since she wanted to argue about the time and told her that it was time to get ready for bed. She hopped up and she 'wanted to watch the movie now', but I explained that the previously agreed upon times were not kept and now she only had 15 minutes to get ready for bed...she couldn't argue though she tried a little. I told her I hoped she'd choose to watch it with me tomorrow and that I loved her. She went off to get ready a bit pouty and fussing about taking her melatonin...she still took it and she was in bed on time with me right behind her to get hugs and silly smoochy kisses, lol. She went to bed I'm sure a little disappointed, but she was smiling :).

 

I think much of this is going to be how I react to her and with her. I knew a good bit of it was me being so reactionary and letting things get to me. I come from a family like that though. We are loud passionate people, lol. But I have to tone it down for her.

[AngieW in Texas]

Your posts are sending up huge flashing signals for anxiety, depression, and OCD. OCD tends to cause anxiety and depression, so you often see all three together. OCD is often hidden for years. My oldest successfully hid her OCD for many years. My dd's OCD started at 10yo, but I had absolutely no clue until she was about 15yo. Even then, her behavior just seemed obnoxious, not at all what I would guess was OCD. By 18yo, I was pretty sure she had OCD. And now she has an official diagnosis and there is no doubt about it.

[dirty ethel rackham]

She already takes one class online for Spanish through BYU. She is actually starting to like it, but complained about it for some time. I think it stemmed from having to be more responsible about her work and having to deal with someone else. She wanted me to let her use Rosetta instead, but I had already spent the money and was not about to shell out more for another program. She had picked it and we were going to stick with it. She has a tutor that calls once a week to check in and review. It does help her and though she was adamant about not having a tutor, she actually likes that the most because she gets to talk to someone in Spanish :) I can still monitor her assignments online and check her login times, but so can he, lol. So I normally stay out of it except to check that she's done.

 

I would love to have her enroll in another class next year in addition to her Spanish; we will see how this year goes though. She and I have discussed that I will continue to monitor her schedule througout the day and at the end of the day before anything else happens. She seems okay with that thus far.

 

I certainly don't want to give the impression that any old online class will be the magic bullet. Far from it. I spent good money on classes that were a disappointment. They just didn't suit our needs. I made sure my son knew that I understood that it wasn't the best fit, but I expected him to put forth his best effort while I helped him find ways to get what he needed. My son resisted lots of things, including asking teachers for help. He had some serious social anxiety and that got in the way of getting the most out of his education. We had to work on this in baby steps.

 

She did attempt to engage me in a battle of sorts this evening. She knew what time she was to go to bed. She got a new 3DS game today that she'd been saving for and since she had a couple of great days I agreed to swing by there. She wanted to play this evening, but also wanted to finish a movie with me that had 30 min left (watched a previous night but not finished). So we discussed what would need to happen to be able to watch it and still get into bed on time. Lets just say that it didn't happen (though I gave a time heads up). I walked back after the alotted time that we were supposed to start and she was still playing, although she was supposed to be off 10 min before anyways. She 'was saving' of course, but I refused to argue. I simply asked for the DS and returned it to my room since she wanted to argue about the time and told her that it was time to get ready for bed. She hopped up and she 'wanted to watch the movie now', but I explained that the previously agreed upon times were not kept and now she only had 15 minutes to get ready for bed...she couldn't argue though she tried a little. I told her I hoped she'd choose to watch it with me tomorrow and that I loved her. She went off to get ready a bit pouty and fussing about taking her melatonin...she still took it and she was in bed on time with me right behind her to get hugs and silly smoochy kisses, lol. She went to bed I'm sure a little disappointed, but she was smiling :).

 

I think much of this is going to be how I react to her and with her. I knew a good bit of it was me being so reactionary and letting things get to me. I come from a family like that though. We are loud passionate people, lol. But I have to tone it down for her.

 

Learning not to engage and get angry is so hard. I have to say that I was not successful most of the time. But, I did try to talk to my son when we both were calm so that we could problem solve. I am making some of the same mistakes with my 2nd son (who is just as challenging in a totally different way.) I am working on speaking his love language and tempering my frustration with him. I am in total denial about my daughter. Everyone tells me that I will not be able to hold onto the sweet tempered young lady and a moody teen will replace her, but I just put my fingers in my ears and sing "LA LA LA. I CAN'T HEAR YOU!" just so I can get through the day:).

[Melissa in Australia]

My uncle, a high school teacher with over 40 years of teaching. Once told me that from his experience the children who do well at school and make it into university have had their parents pushing them every single step of the way. the self driven child is very very rare. I took his advice to heart and make sure I push my children to achieve. If it takes sitting beside them and making sure they are on task I do that.

I did this with my ds now 18. between the ages of 13-16 I stood by his side and pushed him every day to make sure he got everything done. He now is a completely self driven student at uni. over 400 km away from us. He is one of the top students in his course (Aerospace Engineering) would he have got to uni without being pushed? I doubt it. Is he glad I pushed him? extremely.

[kolamum]

I don't have a child as old as you do, so take it for what it's worth.. In our home there are no "give-ins" for privileges. In other words ipods, computer games, wii, etc. It's all kept in central locations. You do not get to use it until the work is done. Don't do the work, that's fine, but you can't have the reward. If my normal complainer doesn't want to do his school, that's fine but he won't be getting "free" time either.

 

Do you think some of it could be when her hormones started playing with her? What about vitamins or herbs for well being in that case?

[Live2Ride]

I don't have a child as old as you do, so take it for what it's worth.. In our home there are no "give-ins" for privileges. In other words ipods, computer games, wii, etc. It's all kept in central locations. You do not get to use it until the work is done. Don't do the work, that's fine, but you can't have the reward. If my normal complainer doesn't want to do his school, that's fine but he won't be getting "free" time either.

 

Do you think some of it could be when her hormones started playing with her? What about vitamins or herbs for well being in that case?

 

 

Its the same here as well. All things are centrally located. We have a TV but no channels on it. I refuse to pay for cable when most of it is trash. We find tons of things to watch online and are able to make better viewing choices that way.

 

DS got exactly 15 min of computer time and fussed about it...but I reminded him that it was he who wasted the day away cutting up instead of digging in and getting his things done. Then he works good for a few days so he can play... He repeats the pattern most regularly, lol.

 

Hormones...most definitely, but she has always been a fairly emotionally charged child. So some of it seems to have been heightened now. She is taking some vitamins, but as for herbs...I've been reading a little, but not fully aware of what could hurt or help.

[fairfarmhand]

 

I think much of this is going to be how I react to her and with her. I knew a good bit of it was me being so reactionary and letting things get to me. I come from a family like that though. We are loud passionate people, lol. But I have to tone it down for her.

BOLD, UNDERLINE, EXCLAMATION POINT!!!! yup!

[Susan in TN]

 

 

I realized that, although I thought he should be more independent about getting his work done, it wasn't happening. Just like the child who just wasn't getting algebra and needed more support to learn it, my son just wasn't getting this "independent work" thing and needed more support. I also had to realize that he wasn't done yet - there was still time for that maturing and independence that needed to happen for college. I needed to stop treating the situation like college was just around the corner.

 

Thank you for this!

 

In addition to counseling, online classes with outside teachers (well-done classes with lots of feedback and communication with others worked best) and classes at the local college helped immensely. His work ethic improved by having outside teachers with me providing structure and time management support at home.

 

 

About half-way through this semester and the billionth "discussion" we had with ds, it came out that he really wanted to take tutorials. He felt isolated and depressed. We had arranged for one class (which fell through), but at the time simply didn't have the money for more classes. We've been able to arrange for a couple of classes second semester - one on a trade with the tutorial instructor, another at the CC, which will be mostly paid for by govt. funds, and another reasonbly priced one at a local university that is on a topic that really interests ds. I wish we could afford a tutorial for math and science, but we just have to pray that his other class improvements will spill over a little in motivation for the ones he has to do at home. :001_smile: