Absolutely at the end of my rope....

[Live2Ride]

 

• Warning: this is a ramble of a post, but....
   
  I need suggestions or hugs or prayers or a knock on the head...something. Maybe I'm wrong in the way I'm thinking and thus failing my dd, but I refuse to hold my dd's hand. She's 15, she has a clear concise schedule. Each days lessons are due at the end of the day. We have homeschooled since they were young and they know what is expected of them. I often add in pointers or suggestions on their schedule to help.
   
  I normally check all work every couple of days. Sometimes I get behind due to their activities, but I catch up on the weekend. She knows I will ALWAYS find out if she skips things and that she will have to deal with the consequence (a loss of priviledges). Yet she still does it...UGH!!!
   
  She puts in very little effort...at all, unless she's drawing 'her art' on her own time. She doesn't even put much effort into her art program when supposedly she likes art. She skips lessons and states that 'she didn't see it' :rolleyes: when it's written in the same ink right under other info from the same assignment...
   
  DH wants me to 'babysit' her...go behind her all day to make sure she's doing her things...it hasn't worked so far because I see them all day and have to constantly say 'get back to work', 'stop talking', 'stop walking around doing nothing', etc. I'm of the thought that she needs to do her work or reap what she sows. She knows what needs to be done, yet chooses not to do so. Case in point: she has two lessons I found skipped and incomplete this evening. I told her she needed to go get them done this evening. This was at 6:30. She managed to play the piano (which she rarely does on Sunday), tells me that she's not supposed to work on Sunday, that it's late, she was going to do it tomorrow, does she really have to (to which I looked at her and stated simply that "Nope, she did not have to, that she has free agency, but she will have to deal with the consequences of not doing so). She barely batted an eye after my remark and ended up eating some cereal, then went to her room and decided to go to bed...
   
  This child is nonstop argumentative. She has had all priveledges removed thus far (now the phone which is just for making calls-no frills). Yet it still hasn't sunk it that she is making wrong choices. She likes to ask us why we don't like her. Why we are making fun of her or accuses us of making her have low self esteem...it goes on and on. It's exhausting. She is a very negative child and never does anything wrong in her eyes. It's always "I didn't do anything", or "I don't know what I did".
   
  She's not a 'bad' child-I know she could be worse. Overly emotional-yes, but she is also disrespectful and lazy. I'm so tired of it. So much so that enrolling her tomorrow, for someone else to deal with, to have someone else to answer to, is looking good because I'm stressed to the max with having to explain for the umptenth time that she has to do her work, she has to put forth effort, yes you'll have to redo it because instead of asking for help or use one of the many resources we have to help you learn-you decided to just write anything down or nothing at all....
   
  I took her drawing notebooks and stories, her 'character references'-more drawings for stories, because she's often caught looking at them instead of schooling. We moved her to the living room or dining room table (sort of attached) and she still manages to dwadle all. day. long. It's rediculous.
   
  She is so stubborn and hard headed. I'm at a loss as to what to do. Just keep letting natural consequences fall? Because that's where I stand but DH does not it seems. I honestly think it's because he doesn't want her to fail. NO ONE in college will care if she does her assignments. They won't hold her hand. My girlfriend who works at the college and the ones that work in the testing lab say I'm doing the right thing because not enough parents let the kids fail. That they get o college expecting someone to bail them out....
   
  DH likes to 'remind' me that this is highschool and it's important (because I don't obviously know that :glare: ) and I need to be right there at the table watching them and grading constantly. I sit at the table most of the day though. He knows that since when he's here that's where I am. I can not do the work for her. I think I just might do that though. Lets see how much laundry, dishes, driving kids to music or fencing, or cleaning gets done since I have three students to stand watch over all day...
   
  What do you hivers recommend? Maybe the consequences haven't been tough enough/long enough? But she refuses to see her fault in it. She always has excuses for her failures...UGH! Where is the ripping your hair out smiley?! It would be so appropriate right now...................
  

 

[justamouse]

Do you really want me to answer this? If I do, you may not like it. I'm serious.

[Twigs]

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

[CupOCoffee]

((listening))

 

I fear I am headed to where you are in a few years; she's 11 now, but is doing the same as your 15 year old...

 

For me justamouse -- go ahead...I probably need to hear what you have to say.

[Guest inoubliable]

((listening))

 

I fear I am headed to where you are in a few years; she's 11 now, but is doing the same as your 15 year old...

 

For me justamouse -- go ahead...I probably need to hear what you have to say.

 

I've got a 12 year old that I'm afraid is heading the same way. I could use the advice, too.

[Anne in CA]

I am just so sorry. I wish the answer was just be more tough, but it probably isn't. My oldest had some of these issues, but not all. My youngest has some of these issues too, but not all, and I let the oldest go to high school and pretend to her teachers that she didn't know she was supposed to use punctuation or spell words correctly ( she really liked spelling words her OWN way, lol). She almost failed Honors English her senior year. When she saw she might not graduate she buckled in and read the books and wrote papers correctly, but the next year she got so far behind in her college classes she had to drop out. My younger likes to work FAST, you know, get it done FAST, and that so does not work with classical education, lol. She wore me out. No more Latin, no more classical history, her notebooks were such a mess.

 

I am worried that if you just sit at the table with her all day the negativity will wear you both out. If your dh will not let her fail she might need ADHD medication, whether or not she has it, my understanding is it helps most kids who take it even if they are not really ADHD. She does sound ADHD, enough that a doctor would probably write you a prescription. Of course, that doesn't fix anything long term, I'm just putting the option out there.

 

My experience is that people tend to polarize. If you are running around doing everything, someone else in your house is going to feel that they need to take it easy. This happens with me and my oldest. She really feels she has gotten a lot done if she watches TV all day. She is 24 and mad that I won't let her live at home, but it would wear me out if she lived at home because she wears me out with Christmas visits.

 

Mostly I'm just sorry. Feeling disappointed with a child is hard, not knowing what to do is hard, at the end of the day, it is her life.

[sassenach]

I'd put her in school. My 15yo is in school. She is 100% independent in all of her homework. Other teachers, students, and grades are great motivators.

[Live2Ride]

Do you really want me to answer this? If I do, you may not like it. I'm serious.

 

I might not, but I am open to suggestions. I certainly won't be angry; I truely am looking for help. You are welcome to PM me if you want instead. DH just thinks that the easy way is to stand over her, but I feel, understands that it won't help her in the long run-he wants her to do well-I don't think he's understanding the long term aspects of handholding...maybe I'm in the wrong though. Maybe she needs to be treated like a small child who can't be trusted to make her own decisions-though she wants to 'do it herself'. I need people with experience to chime in. I am a motivated person. My nickname is the energizer bunny within my friend circle. If I want to learn something, I will. I want her to have a love of learning and pride in herself...in her work no matter what it is...

 

Oh and just for info on our family dynamics, every has chores. My kids have something to do every day (kitchen one week for one, and then rotate to vacuum/bathroom/trash/laundry towels-washclothes, the next week. There is one thing to do each day. At times I will do breakfast/lunch dishes so they can work-when I'm not actively doing something else, it mostly involves loading them.

[gaillardia]

Your daughter is participating in early a.m. seminary too, though, right? Getting up at 5 to get ready, get there at 6? It really takes it's toll out on teens. I don't know how ps kids do it, I know they stay up late! Does it have anything to do with the amount of sleep she's not getting?

Is she exercising at all? Exercise has helped my kids who are also early a.m. seminary.

Have you tried taking away all educational stuff, everything except the basics, putting her on a schedule of hour by hour or 45 minute time blocks, this is what she's to do?

What does she have to look forward to? What is the reward?

What will the result be of putting her in school? What do you hope to achieve by doing that? I'm not being snarky, just wondering...

Have you always homeschooled?

[Dandelion]

I don't have a teen yet, so don't have any BTDT advice (I will probably be in your shoes when DS hits his teens in a few years). My gut reaction is that you are right to "let her fail" a bit in order to drive the message home.

 

(((Hugs)))

[Jean in Newcastle]

I have a 15 year old. I do not babysit him but I do supervise him and I do hold him accountable. When I taught high school I did the same for all of my students in my classes. Every morning we start with our morning seminar time. We look at his schedule for the week on Mondays. I have a syllabus with all his assignments laid out for all of his classes. Each morning we have a different subject that we focus on for our morning seminar time. We go over the material together and I look at how he's doing. This is also time for us to go over what he had gotten wrong in previous assignments. I do not think that it is reasonable to expect him to do all his assignments with no input or teaching or accountability. Once morning seminar time is over, I ask him what he's decided to do for his next hour. I am working with his sister after this but he is where I can see him and can see that he is doing his assignments. I ask him at noon and later in the afternoon for reports on what he has accomplished. He is also required to turn the day's work in every day. The details may vary but I do believe in looking over the day's assignments in some form, in having actual time to discuss each subject at least once a week together and having daily accountability.

[Live2Ride]

Your daughter is participating in early a.m. seminary too, though, right? Getting up at 5 to get ready, get there at 6? It really takes it's toll out on teens. I don't know how ps kids do it, I know they stay up late! Does it have anything to do with the amount of sleep she's not getting?

Is she exercising at all? Exercise has helped my kids who are also early a.m. seminary.

Have you tried taking away all educational stuff, everything except the basics, putting her on a schedule of hour by hour or 45 minute time blocks, this is what she's to do?

What does she have to look forward to? What is the reward?

What will the result be of putting her in school? What do you hope to achieve by doing that? I'm not being snarky, just wondering...

Have you always homeschooled?

 

Always homeschooled Ds, took DD out while in 1st grade. She has NO desire to attend school-has this fear of bullies it seems. Personally I'm afraid of what she will start to be like after being there (though I haven't expressed this within her earshot ever!). She will go to the local public school and it's not good...

 

Bedtime is 9 pm here. She gets up at 5:10 to be there at 5:30. We live right down the street from our building. Her reward each day was to be able to get on the computer to draw with her friend, email other friends, have friends to sleep over or have her ipod. She still tries to pull the "I didn't see that" card when we find unfinished things...it's rediculous. She dwadles so much that the exercise often gets put off. But this past week I've been making them go outside after lunch for a bike ride or somewhat brisk 2 mile walk with the dogs. They also use the wii fit. I plan to keep sending them out to do so at lunch no matter what.

[Joker]

I only have one teen and she's younger than yours, but she is an absolute nightmare on less than 10 hrs of sleep. She can also be quite negative but she actually makes sense. She isn't being dramatic when she tells me she thinks we're making fun of her. It's how she actually feels and things are much better when I really listen to her and try to accomodate. I watch my tone and the things I say. It's getting better now because she knows we'll listen so she's listening as well. She knows we're not really trying to make fun of her and is able to laugh at herself more. I can't really help with the school aspect as she started ps for middle school. She is still held accountable there but since it's not mom she seems to take it better.

[justamouse]

You cannot punish her out of a stage. She's 15. My 18 yo is brilliant in so many ways, and yet every time she goes somewhere, she never remembers to figure out how she's getting home (no, no license, she doesn't want to drive yet), yet I could hand her a checkbook and she could run the house. Remember if she needs a ride home? nope.

 

Give her all her stuff back.

 

Start saying 5 true, good things about her. You're criticizing too much and it doesn't' matter if you think you're not, she is hearing nothing but negative. That needs to change or pretty soon she will not care what you think and do what she wants because she hasn't heard the positive outweigh the negative yet.

 

Find another 5 nice things to say.

 

Tell her you love her 10 times a day. Hug her and tell her the story about how she was born and how happy you were to have her.

 

Ask her help to do chores, do them with her --if you fold laundry together, you can talk, and that creates relationship--and then thank her for helping you.

 

Sit at the table and do the work with her. High school work is all about talking, relating, sharing. You cannot be a sheet checker in high school. --OK *some* kids, maybe. But most of high school is talking, and relationship isn't happening if you are at the table being the warden. Go through every assignment and problem with her. Yes it's hard, yes she should know better, yes, you are right, but this is the age. It is. So you have to get through it.

 

Play together. Hike, pack a picnic, watch a movie, whatever it is you do for play, play together.

 

Stop arguing her fault in it. You can not argue her out of this. She's not mature enough to see it, so start making emotional deposits and then, later, if you have to pull out a consequence, don't engage her in why. Take her at her word that she doesn't know what she did. Some kids need help becoming emotionally intelligent. That's ok. That's what you're there for.

 

IN my house WE do the laundry, WE do the dishes, WE ...we do it. My job is homeschooling. If I am the house's maid, I cannot homeschool. It's either or. So WE do it. I get right in there with them.

 

This does get better. Really. I promise. I brought my Dd home sushi tonight after she watched all of the kids for me and Dh and we watched The Princess Bride and showed eachother everything we got the others.

[Jean in Newcastle]

P.S. - I don't know if it is just teen hormones or what but ds is more flighty and distractable than he used to be. Instead of beating him over the head with this, we work together to come up with solutions for him getting his work done. Being his ally in this has made a huge difference not only in our relationship but also in his cooperation.

[Skadi]

Perhaps a compromise between holding her hand and checking her work every few days?

 

At ___ AM, you will be checking her math everyday. If its not done or half assed, she gets consequences. Then two hours later, her English will be checked. And so on.

 

No reminders. No circling over her like a vulture. Just a piece of paper posted with the due times of each assignment. That way she has a schedule, with clearly defined expectations. It may take a while to get her into the routine, but with firm consequences I would hope it would produce a change in behavior. Don't ask her why her math isn't done—and cut her off if she starts to "explain." If she disrespectfully keeps trying to throw a pity party and whine about it, more consequences. Don't be frustrated or mean about it. Calmly draw the line in the sand and say, "That's enough. Now get back to work."

 

This may be more time than you'd like to invest with her, but she can't handle independent work until you help teach her how to get into a routine.

[Skadi]

Are her professors going to go through every problem with her to make sure she stays on task? Is her boss going to follow her around making sure she doesn't dawdle? My philosophy is that my job is to prepare teenagers for adulthood. You can't talk about the material being taught if the material is never read in the first place. I'm sure the OP is not merely checking off boxes. And, well, we believe that if a person is acting snotty, the solution is not to tell them how wonderful they are. Of course we still tell them we love them no matter what—but pride, martyrdom and laziness are behaviors that are not rewarded.

[Live2Ride]

You cannot punish her out of a stage. She's 15. My 18 yo is brilliant in so many ways, and yet every time she goes somewhere, she never remembers to figure out how she's getting home (no, no license, she doesn't want to drive yet), yet I could hand her a checkbook and she could run the house. Remember if she needs a ride home? nope.

 

Give her all her stuff back.

 

Start saying 5 true, good things about her. You're criticizing too much and it doesn't' matter if you think you're not, she is hearing nothing but negative. That needs to change or pretty soon she will not care what you think and do what she wants because she hasn't heard the positive outweigh the negative yet.

 

Find another 5 nice things to say.

 

Tell her you love her 10 times a day. Hug her and tell her the story about how she was born and how happy you were to have her.

 

Ask her help to do chores, do them with her --if you fold laundry together, you can talk, and that creates relationship--and then thank her for helping you.

 

Sit at the table and do the work with her. High school work is all about talking, relating, sharing. You cannot be a sheet checker in high school. --OK *some* kids, maybe. But most of high school is talking, and relationship isn't happening if you are at the table being the warden. Go through every assignment and problem with her. Yes it's hard, yes she should know better, yes, you are right, but this is the age. It is. So you have to get through it.

 

Play together. Hike, pack a picnic, watch a movie, whatever it is you do for play, play together.

 

Stop arguing her fault in it. You can not argue her out of this. She's not mature enough to see it, so start making emotional deposits and then, later, if you have to pull out a consequence, don't engage her in why. Take her at her word that she doesn't know what she did. Some kids need help becoming emotionally intelligent. That's ok. That's what you're there for.

 

IN my house WE do the laundry, WE do the dishes, WE ...we do it. My job is homeschooling. If I am the house's maid, I cannot homeschool. It's either or. So WE do it. I get right in there with them.

 

This does get better. Really. I promise. I brought my Dd home sushi tonight after she watched all of the kids for me and Dh and we watched The Princess Bride and showed eachother everything we got the others.

 

 

I appreciate what you are saying. And I'm going to write some things down to discuss with my husband. This has been going on for about four years now, just getting worse each year...

 

I do try multiple times a day to check in with her, to tell her fun things, to ask her to cook or help me with things. I get negative responses every single time. I'm not kidding. She 'hates to cook' (though loves looking at cookbooks. I even got her a cute apron and a subscription to Cooking Light for Christmas since she loves looking at it from the library)-but I ask her to pick something she likes out and we'll get the stuff for it to make together, but she wants no part in helping to make it or says I will later and then when I remind her about getting the recipe to me she states that she hates to cook anyways...even if I offer to make it she'll make an excuse about it. It is SO frustrating as I think I'm trying but she refuses to want to do anything-unless it's drawing or writing. She hates hiking-it's too hot, she hates to shop with me, she doesn't want ice cream so she doesn't want to go with me, she will sometimes go see a movie with me (I try to schedule regular simple outings with just her, but she rarely wants to do anything with me). She'll bike ride with my other student though. She makes it clear that 'I don't have to come'...

 

Perhaps I do need to tell her I love her even more, but I do it multiple times a day because I felt there was too much negativity, but I get, yeah right, or sure, or something of that nature and I simply respond that I do love her no matter what she thinks. I'm not an overly affectionate person, but I never push her away if she comes to me. I have tried to hug her more during the day or kiss her and I think I'll need to up it even if she tries her prickly pear routine. She is the nicest when none of us are talking to her or asking her to do anything either fun or not. She doesn't want to play tennis with us, doesn't want to bike ride out in town with us...etc. She prefers to sit in that room all the time. She wants to ride horses, but doesn't want to groom them, care for them, tack up or anything that requires a lot of effort.

 

Recently I found out about a 4-H horse club and she was excited to go. So we went and had a good time. I even sold her pony (she hadn't fooled with him in over a year since he really was too small for her now) and searched for a more suitable horse for her and my other student. I found one, we looked at her, rode her and brought her here on Saturday. She said she was excited about it. How many times has she gone out there and tried to pet her or offer her a treat? Not once...I've asked her to go out with me. She'll 'come later'. It never happened...

 

We tried letting her keep her priviledges (earlier this year) as long as she kept up her work and we thought 'this will work'...she likes to do her thing and we want to let her because it makes her happy...but it never failed that she would lie about finishing her work, break our online safety rules or she would hide things...so we took things away...

[Live2Ride]

Perhaps a compromise between holding her hand and checking her work every few days?

 

At ___ AM, you will be checking her math everyday. If its not done or half assed, she gets consequences. Then two hours later, her English will be checked. And so on.

 

No reminders. No circling over her like a vulture. Just a piece of paper posted with the due times of each assignment. That way she has a schedule, with clearly defined expectations. It may take a while to get her into the routine, but with firm consequences I would hope it would produce a change in behavior. Don't ask her why her math isn't done—and cut her off if she starts to "explain." If she disrespectfully keeps trying to throw a pity party and whine about it, more consequences. Don't be frustrated or mean about it. Calmly draw the line in the sand and say, "That's enough. Now get back to work."

 

This may be more time than you'd like to invest with her, but she can't handle independent work until you help teach her how to get into a routine.

 

 

I don't have problems buckling myself down to that...it's a good suggestion. Have you ever come across a kid though who seriously has to have THE LAST WORD, every single time. I'm soo not kidding. She will mutter enough to be heard as we cut her off to send her to her room. I attempt to not engage, but she gets going and is like a cattle dog on a cow...it's exhausting some days. She is quite disrespectful in her tone and actions. She's the kind that if I try to discreetly ask if she'd like a piece of gum/or remind her to not forget her teeth care, she'll automatically get upity/loud with me saying she brushed her teeth already what was I trying to say...

[Live2Ride]

Are her professors going to go through every problem with her to make sure she stays on task? Is her boss going to follow her around making sure she doesn't dawdle? My philosophy is that my job is to prepare teenagers for adulthood. You can't talk about the material being taught if the material is never read in the first place. I'm sure the OP is not merely checking off boxes. And, well, we believe that if a person is acting snotty, the solution is not to tell them how wonderful they are. Of course we still tell them we love them no matter what—but pride, martyrdom and laziness are behaviors that are not rewarded.

 

 

I do ask her often if she needs help with anything. How is work going. Lets talk about the book you read today.

 

The answers are either met with a sigh and a roll of eyes saying, I don't want to talk about my book I know what I'm reading, work is fine, I don't need any help, that website won't help me, you don't know how to do this. That's the laziness I'm talking about...she just avoids to keep from doing the harder stuff even if we are trying to help her...

 

Then I see where she's written in her math assignment that she needs her dad to help her with some problems. Yet I offered and I have websites that we'll look on together to find answers and helps.

 

She refuses my help. That's whats so frustrating.

[lifesadream83]

I appreciate what you are saying. And I'm going to write some things down to discuss with my husband. This has been going on for about four years now, just getting worse each year...

 

I do try multiple times a day to check in with her, to tell her fun things, to ask her to cook or help me with things. I get negative responses every single time. I'm not kidding. She 'hates to cook' (though loves looking at cookbooks. I even got her a cute apron and a subscription to Cooking Light for Christmas since she loves looking at it from the library)-but I ask her to pick something she likes out and we'll get the stuff for it to make together, but she wants no part in helping to make it or says I will later and then when I remind her about getting the recipe to me she states that she hates to cook anyways...even if I offer to make it she'll make an excuse about it. It is SO frustrating as I think I'm trying but she refuses to want to do anything-unless it's drawing or writing. She hates hiking-it's too hot, she hates to shop with me, she doesn't want ice cream so she doesn't want to go with me, she will sometimes go see a movie with me (I try to schedule regular simple outings with just her, but she rarely wants to do anything with me). She'll bike ride with my other student though. She makes it clear that 'I don't have to come'...

 

Perhaps I do need to tell her I love her even more, but I do it multiple times a day because I felt there was too much negativity, but I get, yeah right, or sure, or something of that nature and I simply respond that I do love her no matter what she thinks. I'm not an overly affectionate person, but I never push her away if she comes to me. I have tried to hug her more during the day or kiss her and I think I'll need to up it even if she tries her prickly pear routine. She is the nicest when none of us are talking to her or asking her to do anything either fun or not. She doesn't want to play tennis with us, doesn't want to bike ride out in town with us...etc. She prefers to sit in that room all the time. She wants to ride horses, but doesn't want to groom them, care for them, tack up or anything that requires a lot of effort.

 

Recently I found out about a 4-H horse club and she was excited to go. So we went and had a good time. I even sold her pony (she hadn't fooled with him in over a year since he really was too small for her now) and searched for a more suitable horse for her and my other student. I found one, we looked at her, rode her and brought her here on Saturday. She said she was excited about it. How many times has she gone out there and tried to pet her or offer her a treat? Not once...I've asked her to go out with me. She'll 'come later'. It never happened...

 

We tried letting her keep her priviledges (earlier this year) as long as she kept up her work and we thought 'this will work'...she likes to do her thing and we want to let her because it makes her happy...but it never failed that she would lie about finishing her work, break our online safety rules or she would hide things...so we took things away...

 

 

 

It really sounds like you two have been at it since she hit puberty and that "stuff" has just built up between you like crazy. You are the mom though I have to say I agree with the other post you, as mom, ;need to step back and take a hard look at what is important to you. And work at repairing your relationship or she is going to turn 18 and you may not have one anymore.

 

I see you use SL do you actually do the read alouds with the kids? Maybe this would be a good starting point. If she likes art maybe sit with her and work on a project of her choice or just draw while she is. You said this has been going on 4 years it will not correct itself overnight... its going to take time, dedication and effort on your part.... You are the parent not her.

[Live2Ride]

She does not like me to do the read alouds. It was a pain to have her sit with ds and i without listening to her complain. They both prefer to read on their own but i wantd that time with them so i continued. She would start off complaining, eye rolling etc. I stopped reading aloud after a year of it...i was trying to "pick my battles"... want to again. There are some fun books this year. She will tell me that i might like one here and there and i try to get her to explain more to be interested but she'll just give a fairly short answer...its disheartening to see the spiral that we're in and have tried things to change it to seemingly no avail...

[Laura Corin]

What does she want to do? By the time they get to that age, they have to want to work, I believe. Calvin was slacking until he visited a university that he wanted to attend, then he started working towards that goal. He still slacks off sometimes, but he knows where he wants to be and what he needs to do to get there.

 

Best of luck

 

Laura

[Tiramisu]

:grouphug: I think your dd is depressed. IMHO, that could account for everything in your post. :(

[Night Elf]

I agree with Justamouse. The only homeschooliing child I have right now is ds16. I sit with him every day, even if to just get him started, like with math. For other courses, he needs the interaction with us (parents, both of us actually) to hear stuff the books don't say. We don't like how he is limited when he's only reading for himself. Even in college they have lecture time where the instructor expounds on the topic. When dd14 was home last year, it was rough on me because I wanted to sit with both of them every day. Dd14 pushed to work all independently and by the end of the year she was asking to start high school this fall. I blame her independent nature because I don't think she was getting everything she needed. School was nothing but a tedious chore. She's doing very well in school this year. Having teachers lecture and then working on homework has changed how she views the material.

 

I also spend as much time with my teens as I can, even dd20. I try for one-on-one time with each of them every week. We go out for lunch (my son's favorite thing) and shopping (my girls' favorite thing). At home every day, I touch base with them, asking what's going on, is there anything I can do to help. My dd14 is letting me into her world more now since she's been in school. I guess I'm the mom again and not the school teacher. I play video games with my son sometimes. We laugh at how bad I am, but it's time we do something together that doesn't involve work like school or chores (which we don't really have, but we all pitch in to do random things).

 

:grouphug: This parenting stuff can be hard. Seeing posts like mine makes it look like I'm trying to say it's all easy, but I'm not saying that at all. I have always been an active parent, basically getting into my children's worlds as much as possible. I don't want to coddle them, but I'll admit I probably do more than I should. But I was in college not that long ago so I know what is expected and I'm positive they'll be fine. Well, dd20 is still only thinking about college but her work ethic is absolutely fantastic. I'm hoping my other two feel as good about whatever they do as my dd20 does. (ETA: dd20 took 4 years to do the last two years of high school. She hated school work. She treats working a real job much differently.)

[Moxie]

Have you talked to a doctor about depression?? Not wanting to do fun stuff, that sounds like she could be depressed.

[Live2Ride]

I agree with Justamouse. The only homeschooliing child I have right now is ds16. I sit with him every day, even if to just get him started, like with math. For other courses, he needs the interaction with us (parents, both of us actually) to hear stuff the books don't say. We don't like how he is limited when he's only reading for himself. Even in college they have lecture time where the instructor expounds on the topic. When dd14 was home last year, it was rough on me because I wanted to sit with both of them every day. Dd14 pushed to work all independently and by the end of the year she was asking to start high school this fall. I blame her independent nature because I don't think she was getting everything she needed. School was nothing but a tedious chore. She's doing very well in school this year. Having teachers lecture and then working on homework has changed how she views the material.

 

I also spend as much time with my teens as I can, even dd20. I try for one-on-one time with each of them every week. We go out for lunch (my son's favorite thing) and shopping (my girls' favorite thing). At home every day, I touch base with them, asking what's going on, is there anything I can do to help. My dd14 is letting me into her world more now since she's been in school. I guess I'm the mom again and not the school teacher. I play video games with my son sometimes. We laugh at how bad I am, but it's time we do something together that doesn't involve work like school or chores (which we don't really have, but we all pitch in to do random things).

 

:grouphug: This parenting stuff can be hard. Seeing posts like mine makes it look like I'm trying to say it's all easy, but I'm not saying that at all. I have always been an active parent, basically getting into my children's worlds as much as possible. I don't want to coddle them, but I'll admit I probably do more than I should. But I was in college not that long ago so I know what is expected and I'm positive they'll be fine. Well, dd20 is still only thinking about college but her work ethic is absolutely fantastic. I'm hoping my other two feel as good about whatever they do as my dd20 does.

 

 

part of the problem is that she refuses to do most things with me unless it's to take her to a friends house...or bring one here. She is only happy when things are in her favor or she's getting what she wants. People over the years (good friends of mine) have told me about how she's quite good at manipulating her way. They've watched it with her brother or DH...with friends. It's frustrating. She's very sweet when she wants to be, but that normally indicates that she wants something

[Live2Ride]

Have you talked to a doctor about depression?? Not wanting to do fun stuff, that sounds like she could be depressed.

 

 

She wants to do her version of fun...not ours...being outdoors is not her version of fun unless she's swinging on her swing with the ipod...

[Live2Ride]

What does she want to do? By the time they get to that age, they have to want to work, I believe. Calvin was slacking until he visited a university that he wanted to attend, then he started working towards that goal. He still slacks off sometimes, but he knows where he wants to be and what he needs to do to get there.

 

Best of luck

 

Laura

 

 

Computer animation, but we've got her programs to use and she's probably used them twice. She would rather just draw in her books or on the computer....She's mentioned a few things and so we've gone over what it takes to get there...she has no desire to put forth the effort to do so. We've tried to allow her to explore things, but she 'just doesn't want to do it right now'.

[Miss Marple]

Just a quick idea to throw out there: we typically require the non-fun things, but we make the fun things optional. With my boys, I've made it a point to require some fun things. Require a fun bike ride, a stop at the ice cream store, etc. After a while, she might relax and truly enjoy herself. This has worked with my boys. It allowed us to develop a relationship outside of academics. In fact, I have done things with the boys that I never would have done myself. My 16 yob has visions of being a world class body builder (he does not have the genetics for that) so I go to the gym and work out with him. If your daughter cannot find anything she enjoys, start exploring options - it's up to you, her mom, to help her find her way - don't let her sulk in her bedroom alone.

[Live2Ride]

Just a quick idea to throw out there: we typically require the non-fun things, but we make the fun things optional. With my boys, I've made it a point to require some fun things. Require a fun bike ride, a stop at the ice cream store, etc. After a while, she might relax and truly enjoy herself. This has worked with my boys. It allowed us to develop a relationship outside of academics. In fact, I have done things with the boys that I never would have done myself. My 16 yob has visions of being a world class body builder (he does not have the genetics for that) so I go to the gym and work out with him. If your daughter cannot find anything she enjoys, start exploring options - it's up to you, her mom, to help her find her way - don't let her sulk in her bedroom alone.

 

 

We took her to her brothers parade yesterday. She tried everything she could to get out of it, stating that people get shot at parades, they yell and are pushy... We explained that we were driving in it and we were throwing beads, that it would be fun and we were all going to support her brother like he goes to support her at her music recitals. She ended up having a grand time tossing beads and talking with people. We have to do this for most activities, just force her to go. It's always unpleasant the whole way there and we try hard to talk about the fun we'll have. She sulks and whines and complains or picks at her brother and cops a major attitude...then she has fun (most of the time). But when it's over she's back to sulking about having to go instead of doing what she wanted and will bring it up later to let us know how horrible it was that we made her go.

 

Gosh...she's just so darn prickly!

[fairfarmhand]

Would she want to take an art class with you? Instead of expecting her to spend time with the family on your terms can you not try to meet her on her terms?

IDK, just a suggestion.

 

But I think what's worrying you more than anything is that you sense that this is bigger than simply not getting schoolwork done. You and your girlie have serious relationship problems. Whether it is due to depression or something else, you sense that the strings that tie you and your daughter together are snapping one by one.

 

I don't know that sending her to school would help. In fact, it may just put nails in the coffin that mom doesn't care. And believe me she will seek out friends that reinforce that thought.

 

In your case, I might dump school for a week and take her to the mountains for a few days (or some other place of her choice.) I would try to spend more time listening than talking.

 

But really, she sounds like depression. That is how I am when I am depressed. I want to do things, but I just don't feel like putting in the effort. I tend to be oversensitive and argumentative too.

 

However, I would not just take her to a GP. I would probably take her to a counselor to make sure that something deeper is not going on. If something occurred to trigger this you need a sensitive caring person to probe a bit deeper, rather than just taking meds and hoping that makes it all better.

[astrid]

:grouphug: I think your dd is depressed. IMHO, that could account for everything in your post. :(

 

 

I agree. I haven't read all the responses, but I read down to this post thinking, "This is a depression/anxiety issue!" She's withdrawing, and even a new horse didn't pull her out. I'm so sorry-- I know how hard it is. Do you think she has any OCD issues? We're learning about this with DD, who is a perpetually happy, bright, compliant, accomplished kid. Yet we are seeing how these heretofore unseen OCD issues have been impacting her schoolwork. Molly is the LAST kid you'd ever suspect of needing medication. Our pediatrician is VERY conservative with medication, yet he suggested we try Celexa. I cannot tell you the world of difference it's made. She's also seeing a Cognitive Behavioral Therapist who has helped a lot as well.

 

I'm so sorry--- sending hugs, and suggesting that perhaps you look beyond the schoolwork at an underlying issue.

 

astrid

[Scarlett]

I can't get past the 5: 00 a.m wake up! Are you sure she is getting enough sleep?

[astrid]

We took her to her brothers parade yesterday. She tried everything she could to get out of it, stating that people get shot at parades, they yell and are pushy... We explained that we were driving in it and we were throwing beads, that it would be fun and we were all going to support her brother like he goes to support her at her music recitals. She ended up having a grand time tossing beads and talking with people. We have to do this for most activities, just force her to go. It's always unpleasant the whole way there and we try hard to talk about the fun we'll have. She sulks and whines and complains or picks at her brother and cops a major attitude...then she has fun (most of the time). But when it's over she's back to sulking about having to go instead of doing what she wanted and will bring it up later to let us know how horrible it was that we made her go.

 

Gosh...she's just so darn prickly!

 

 

This is waving a huge "anxiety" flag for me! I know, I know....I had no experience with it either until just a couple of months ago. With Molly it manifests itself as hair pulling. It's actually why we took her out of school in 2nd grade. Now she's a sophomore in high school, at our small, family-centric public high school and it's rearing it's ugly head again in exactly the same way. Hair pulling. But looking back, Molly has always been uncomfortable in chaotic, crowded situations such as big parades, concerts, etc. It's why the chaotic environment of public school was so awful for her, and it's exactly what she says makes her pull her hair in school now-- the rude, disruptive, loud behavior of her peers.

 

Anyway, something to think about-- again, the meds took about three weeks to kick in but I cannot adequately express the positive difference.

 

Hugs again,

astrid

[Live2Ride]

Would she want to take an art class with you? Instead of expecting her to spend time with the family on your terms can you not try to meet her on her terms?

IDK, just a suggestion.

 

But I think what's worrying you more than anything is that you sense that this is bigger than simply not getting schoolwork done. You and your girlie have serious relationship problems. Whether it is due to depression or something else, you sense that the strings that tie you and your daughter together are snapping one by one.

 

I don't know that sending her to school would help. In fact, it may just put nails in the coffin that mom doesn't care. And believe me she will seek out friends that reinforce that thought.

 

 

You hit it perfectly. She is a lovely girl...when she's being kind and thoughtful...otherwise she's a hungry bear coming out of hibernation and no one wants to mess with that.

 

I tried this morning to have a sit down with her and discuss her schedule and get some ideas from her on how to improve it for our benefit. She got defensive, huffy, talked over me and tried to deflect the discussion on her needing help, by bringing in her brothers faults or past issues...that's a favorite move of hers.

[astrid]

She wants to do her version of fun...not ours...being outdoors is not her version of fun unless she's swinging on her swing with the ipod...

 

 

Oh man....I hate to keep harping on it, but yeah--- this says depression/anxiety to me too. Self-soothing OCD. Repetitive motion. Music. Escapism.

 

aaand more hugs....

astrid

[The Girls' Mom]

I don't have problems buckling myself down to that...it's a good suggestion. Have you ever come across a kid though who seriously has to have THE LAST WORD, every single time. I'm soo not kidding. She will mutter enough to be heard as we cut her off to send her to her room. I attempt to not engage, but she gets going and is like a cattle dog on a cow...it's exhausting some days. She is quite disrespectful in her tone and actions. She's the kind that if I try to discreetly ask if she'd like a piece of gum/or remind her to not forget her teeth care, she'll automatically get upity/loud with me saying she brushed her teeth already what was I trying to say...

 

 

She sounds SO much like my niece. My niece is combative with EVERY single thing her mother tells her...good or bad. She is a senior this year (only by the grace of God) She forgets her work, neglects deadlines, is convinced her mom hates her, and thinks the world is out to get her. You can't win with her. If you remind her to brush her hair/teeth, she thinks it is a commentary on how awful you think she is. If you DON'T remind her, you are awful because you don't care if she embarrasses herself in public. She has always been this way. I don't see it changing, it is such a huge part of her personality. She will learn everything the hard way. FWIW, she has been public schooled the whole way..so don't think putting her in school will help. If it is anything like our school system, they will happily let her float on through until it is too late to fix it.

 

She is also very much into drawing, character development, acting, etc. Her life plans so far: to become a Disney character at Disneyworld. I really hope she gets in, otherwise I don't know what she'll end up doing.

 

(btw, I love my niece, I really do. She is a sweetheart around me most of the time, and is my oldest dds best friend. She is a monster around her mom though)

[NotSoObvious]

You cannot punish her out of a stage. She's 15. My 18 yo is brilliant in so many ways, and yet every time she goes somewhere, she never remembers to figure out how she's getting home (no, no license, she doesn't want to drive yet), yet I could hand her a checkbook and she could run the house. Remember if she needs a ride home? nope.

 

Give her all her stuff back.

 

Start saying 5 true, good things about her. You're criticizing too much and it doesn't' matter if you think you're not, she is hearing nothing but negative. That needs to change or pretty soon she will not care what you think and do what she wants because she hasn't heard the positive outweigh the negative yet.

 

Find another 5 nice things to say.

 

Tell her you love her 10 times a day. Hug her and tell her the story about how she was born and how happy you were to have her.

 

Ask her help to do chores, do them with her --if you fold laundry together, you can talk, and that creates relationship--and then thank her for helping you.

 

Sit at the table and do the work with her. High school work is all about talking, relating, sharing. You cannot be a sheet checker in high school. --OK *some* kids, maybe. But most of high school is talking, and relationship isn't happening if you are at the table being the warden. Go through every assignment and problem with her. Yes it's hard, yes she should know better, yes, you are right, but this is the age. It is. So you have to get through it.

 

Play together. Hike, pack a picnic, watch a movie, whatever it is you do for play, play together.

 

Stop arguing her fault in it. You can not argue her out of this. She's not mature enough to see it, so start making emotional deposits and then, later, if you have to pull out a consequence, don't engage her in why. Take her at her word that she doesn't know what she did. Some kids need help becoming emotionally intelligent. That's ok. That's what you're there for.

 

IN my house WE do the laundry, WE do the dishes, WE ...we do it. My job is homeschooling. If I am the house's maid, I cannot homeschool. It's either or. So WE do it. I get right in there with them.

 

This does get better. Really. I promise. I brought my Dd home sushi tonight after she watched all of the kids for me and Dh and we watched The Princess Bride and showed eachother everything we got the others.

 

 

I think this is excellent advice. So much of high school is about the dialogue. And high school is NoT college. It's just not. High school is about learning to be passionate about your work, learning how to study, learning about responsibility, yes, but it should be a gradual release over those four years, IMO.

It sounds like she just really still needs you. That's ok.

[Live2Ride]

I can't get past the 5: 00 a.m wake up! Are you sure she is getting enough sleep?

 

 

She goes to bed at 9 pm. She normally takes 1 mg of melatonin, but says she's been able to sleep lately. I think I may start adding it back in, but she fights me on it too.

 

I'm actually planning on printing what I've written here and taking it to her GP to have a chat. She's a nice lady and she'll listen and give me suggestions.

 

DD picks her face...I know it relieves anxiety...

 

I too am not one to just jump on the medication bandwagon. I think there are times for it though and we may need to go that route with her. I will talk to my DH and make an appt with her GP to discuss this myself and then take her where she needs to go from there.

 

I want to thank you all for your insights/suggestions thus far. It has really been most helpful. I can see where we are overlooking things and where we need improvement. I want her to be a productive strong girl. I want her to be driven to learn on her own and to do her best. I know not everyone is like that, but I know it's in there. I see it in some things she does.

 

Oh and she's not real OCD about any one thing. But she does like a tidy room with everything in it's place...but she's not tidy about appearances, or clothing. She doesn't care if clothes pile up for a few days, but generally her room is tidy.

[fairfarmhand]

You hit it perfectly. She is a lovely girl...when she's being kind and thoughtful...otherwise she's a hungry bear coming out of hibernation and no one wants to mess with that.

 

I tried this morning to have a sit down with her and discuss her schedule and get some ideas from her on how to improve it for our benefit. She got defensive, huffy, talked over me and tried to deflect the discussion on her needing help, by bringing in her brothers faults or past issues...that's a favorite move of hers.

don't those conversations make you crazy? You want to sit down and discuss a. Kid goes on a ramble from x to y to z after barely referencing a.

 

Mostly, I just ignore the rambling. I go. "mmmm....okay. I'm glad you could get that off your chest. Now lets focus on how to improve a."

 

Usually my dd wants to get into blame shifting. I ignore blame-shifting. "Okay. Well, regardless of how things have gone in the past, let's look to the future. What are 2 things I can do to help ____ go better?" I try to put things in the lap of my dd so that she really has to focus on the issues. We can go around and around like this, but it goes better if I don't engage with the blame-shifting, arguing, etc.

 

Personally, I would try to step away from school. Is there a virtual Public school that could take the day-to-day school stuff off of your shoulders so that you can focus on your dd's emotional state and your relationship?

 

(seriously consider depression. I'm not one to pop it out there for every situation, but she sounds so much like how I feel when I am depressed. I just CAN'T enjoy things, I have no energy to try new stuff. Things sound like fun, but I can't muster any energy to work at them. I know it is hard to understand when you've never been there. My dh really struggled, because I had NO reason to feel so depressed. But that is the nature of depression. There is no reason for it. You just feel like crap all the time.)

[Kim in Appalachia]

I've read through all of the posts and I think there is good advice, but I also think there are some kids determined to be miserable or make life misereable for everyone else. It is a puberty thing, and it can take time for some kids to grow out of it.

 

For my oldest, the key was to get her to see that I was on her side. But that can be hard to do. It worked for her because there was something she wanted. She wanted to take classes at the local University her Junior year. She was motivated for that. So, we were able to work out a plan to get her ready. Once she knew it was "all for her" she became a different person. It really was a turning point.

 

But the key is to find what your dd wants. She may not know, which is another reason she is acting out like she is.

 

Obviously, you want to improve things with your dd. It may take a lot of heart to heart talks (at the "right" time! when she is willing) to figure out how to get your dd to see that you are there to help her and you are fighting for her.

 

And :grouphug:

[Chris in VA]

I had a long response typed out,then tried to add a smilie and Poof, it's gone. Probably best that way...I ramble.

 

I'm no Mom of the Year, so all I can offer is what I hear in your posts and some ideas.

 

First, tons of hugs.

 

Second, sounds like depression.

 

Third, yep, she sound manipulative. People manipulate out of fear of loss of control.

 

Fourth--short story--

We noticed a change in our boys re their relationship with their dad around age 13. He had always been the leader in activity-finding. He loved to play with them, and they would do something after dinner at least 5 times a week--creekwalking, running on the high school track, catch/football/soccer ball play, etc. They loved every minute. Then at around 13, they wanted him to join THEM, instead of the other way around. THEY wanted to suggest things to do. But here's the tricky part--they didn't want Dh to really join their world, exactly, because as soon as he did, they saw him as the leader, and THEY wanted to be more equal. He's super-competent, and good at everything. THEY wanted some things to be just their own (as they began to seek independence) and at the same time, wanted to be with him.

 

This caused a bit of Internal Teenage Conflict. LOL! The desire to have some things that are just theirs, where they feel competent and independent (like art seems to be for your girlie), AND the desire to be accepted into the family culture, but NOT as a child. I remember feeling this way. I liked to write, but as soon as Mom tried to support me by wanting to read what I wrote, I felt uncomfortable, because I knew she'd offer a critique (even in a loving way). If she had tried to give me a curriculum ("Oh, she likes to write! Here's a great writing curriculum!") I would have rejected it. I would have thought--She has entered and taken over my private world, and I have lost control and now I have to meet her standard and YUCK! It's MY passion and you have to be INVITED to it!

 

Also, I think you and your sweetie are very different in energy level and motiviation, as you observed. I am not a go-getter. I can relate to her. There are times I look at what I have to do and feel totally overwhelmed and cannot even take the first tiny step. Even something as simple as putting the pile of books that are on my bedroom floor back up on the shelf two feet away is too much sometimes. It is easier to walk away and say I'll do it later. I am not lazy. I just get overwhelmed. Easily. Consequently, I have depression that dogs me once in a while.

 

I hope you can repair the relationship. She probably sees you as so competent that she can't stand to be with you because she feels judged and that she will never reach your standard. She wants to, but it is overwhelming.

 

Oh, that's prolly way harsh--it's my inner voice re my own mom...lol---

 

I'm sorry. Try not to snap threads, try to accept her overwhelmed self, and I guess try not to react when she pulls the martyr thing. She's just defensive because she is putting up barriers and feels threatened. Not by you--what I mean is, perhaps she feels unacceptable and that is a place of pain. If she's coming from a place of pain, that's what need healing.

[ktgrok]

You cannot punish her out of a stage. She's 15. My 18 yo is brilliant in so many ways, and yet every time she goes somewhere, she never remembers to figure out how she's getting home (no, no license, she doesn't want to drive yet), yet I could hand her a checkbook and she could run the house. Remember if she needs a ride home? nope.

 

Give her all her stuff back.

 

Start saying 5 true, good things about her. You're criticizing too much and it doesn't' matter if you think you're not, she is hearing nothing but negative. That needs to change or pretty soon she will not care what you think and do what she wants because she hasn't heard the positive outweigh the negative yet.

 

Find another 5 nice things to say.

 

Tell her you love her 10 times a day. Hug her and tell her the story about how she was born and how happy you were to have her.

 

Ask her help to do chores, do them with her --if you fold laundry together, you can talk, and that creates relationship--and then thank her for helping you.

 

Sit at the table and do the work with her. High school work is all about talking, relating, sharing. You cannot be a sheet checker in high school. --OK *some* kids, maybe. But most of high school is talking, and relationship isn't happening if you are at the table being the warden. Go through every assignment and problem with her. Yes it's hard, yes she should know better, yes, you are right, but this is the age. It is. So you have to get through it.

 

Play together. Hike, pack a picnic, watch a movie, whatever it is you do for play, play together.

 

Stop arguing her fault in it. You can not argue her out of this. She's not mature enough to see it, so start making emotional deposits and then, later, if you have to pull out a consequence, don't engage her in why. Take her at her word that she doesn't know what she did. Some kids need help becoming emotionally intelligent. That's ok. That's what you're there for.

 

IN my house WE do the laundry, WE do the dishes, WE ...we do it. My job is homeschooling. If I am the house's maid, I cannot homeschool. It's either or. So WE do it. I get right in there with them.

 

This does get better. Really. I promise. I brought my Dd home sushi tonight after she watched all of the kids for me and Dh and we watched The Princess Bride and showed eachother everything we got the others.

 

 

Just a Mouse, you are my idol :)

 

I agree totally. We went through this phase with DS a few years ago, and I think may be heading there again, although it is better now that I know what to do. And remember, yes, she will need to do things on her own in college. But she isn't in college yet. So don't expect her to be.

[Live2Ride]

 

Oh man....I hate to keep harping on it, but yeah--- this says depression/anxiety to me too. Self-soothing OCD. Repetitive motion. Music. Escapism.

 

aaand more hugs....

astrid

 

Thank you Astrid. I'm glad that you are saying this....she's always been such an emotionally charged child (since she was young) that we chalked it up to being a drama queen to this point. It seems to be her nature, but she really seems not able to control herself at times. I mean, she just can't stop talking over you, proving her point, 'just saying one more thing', etc...

[Live2Ride]

I had a long response typed out,then tried to add a smilie and Poof, it's gone. Probably best that way...I ramble.

 

I'm no Mom of the Year, so all I can offer is what I hear in your posts and some ideas.

 

First, tons of hugs.

 

Second, sounds like depression.

 

Third, yep, she sound manipulative. People manipulate out of fear of loss of control.

 

Fourth--short story--

We noticed a change in our boys re their relationship with their dad around age 13. He had always been the leader in activity-finding. He loved to play with them, and they would do something after dinner at least 5 times a week--creekwalking, running on the high school track, catch/football/soccer ball play, etc. They loved every minute. Then at around 13, they wanted him to join THEM, instead of the other way around. THEY wanted to suggest things to do. But here's the tricky part--they didn't want Dh to really join their world, exactly, because as soon as he did, they saw him as the leader, and THEY wanted to be more equal. He's super-competent, and good at everything. THEY wanted some things to be just their own (as they began to seek independence) and at the same time, wanted to be with him.

 

This caused a bit of Internal Teenage Conflict. LOL! The desire to have some things that are just theirs, where they feel competent and independent (like art seems to be for your girlie), AND the desire to be accepted into the family culture, but NOT as a child. I remember feeling this way. I liked to write, but as soon as Mom tried to support me by wanting to read what I wrote, I felt uncomfortable, because I knew she'd offer a critique (even in a loving way). If she had tried to give me a curriculum ("Oh, she likes to write! Here's a great writing curriculum!") I would have rejected it. I would have thought--She has entered and taken over my private world, and I have lost control and now I have to meet her standard and YUCK! It's MY passion and you have to be INVITED to it!

 

I can totally see that with her. I don't offer to read things because she has said she doesn't want me to at the beginning. She has a friend that seems blunt enough on what she draws and writes and she tells me about it. I will say that she is rather open with me about conflicts she is having. She does value my opinion on how to handle the somewhat harsh friend, but she keeps going back for more, although I do believe she is starting to take up for herself.

 

Also, I think you and your sweetie are very different in energy level and motiviation, as you observed. I am not a go-getter. I can relate to her. There are times I look at what I have to do and feel totally overwhelmed and cannot even take the first tiny step. Even something as simple as putting the pile of books that are on my bedroom floor back up on the shelf two feet away is too much sometimes. It is easier to walk away and say I'll do it later. I am not lazy. I just get overwhelmed. Easily. Consequently, I have depression that dogs me once in a while.

 

I hope you can repair the relationship. She probably sees you as so competent that she can't stand to be with you because she feels judged and that she will never reach your standard. She wants to, but it is overwhelming.

 

You are right. She has mentioned several times that I am Mrs Perfect and can do anything. I often remind her that a) I am far from perfect and B) it took me a long time so far to learn all the things that I have and that she has a good long time to start aquiring such learning too :)

 

Oh, that's prolly way harsh--it's my inner voice re my own mom...lol---

 

I'm sorry. Try not to snap threads, try to accept her overwhelmed self, and I guess try not to react when she pulls the martyr thing. She's just defensive because she is putting up barriers and feels threatened. Not by you--what I mean is, perhaps she feels unacceptable and that is a place of pain. If she's coming from a place of pain, that's what need healing.

[astrid]

Thank you Astrid. I'm glad that you are saying this....she's always been such an emotionally charged child (since she was young) that we chalked it up to being a drama queen to this point. It seems to be her nature, but she really seems not able to control herself at times. I mean, she just can't stop talking over you, proving her point, 'just saying one more thing', etc...

 

Oh honey..... the more I learn about OCD, the more I can look back and see it in Molly from an early age. She was never defiant, disrespectful, or anything other than perfectly pleasant and compliant, but now I see things that she'd do or say or feel that make me think that there were underlying tendencies there all along, but because she IS so good-natured, we never even gave them any thought. And until we started seeing her CBT (Cognitive Behavioral Therapist) for the hair pulling, there are things that SHE didnt' even realize are OCD. For instance, when she's doign her school work, she gets fixated on whether her answer is wrong. So she'll erase the entire thing and start again. Then her mind will just cycle through self-doubt and her need to be RIGHT, and then the OCD/anxiety builds. When we homeschooled, the ONLY times she'd turn ugly was during math. Now looking back, I see that though her anxiety over chaotic school environments was eased, it showed up again when she tackled her worst subject-- anything math-related.

 

Anxiety can manifest itself so many ways. Do you have any family members that you know of with OCD or anxiety? My husband has a first cousin who went through a hand-washing phase when her parents got divorced, and struggles with OCD now as an adult. There can be a genetic component to it.

 

Honestly, I feel for you--- and we're going through it all. Feel free to PM me.

Still more hugs, because you need them, mama.

astrid

[Mergath]

 

Oh man....I hate to keep harping on it, but yeah--- this says depression/anxiety to me too. Self-soothing OCD. Repetitive motion. Music. Escapism.

 

aaand more hugs....

astrid

 

:iagree: I have OCD and clinical depression, and I completely agree. I was the same way in high school. When you're a teen and you have depression and anxiety issues, escaping into your own fantasy world is pretty much the only way you can get by without going insane. (My "drug" of choice was the Pern series by Anne McCaffrey. :p) The hormones are bad enough, but with mental health issues on top of that, it's a nightmare. Couple that with the lack of sleep from getting up at five in the morning, and you're lucky she's doing as well as she is, op.

 

I would really recommend taking her to a doctor. Even a low dose of an SSRI can do wonders.

[astrid]

 

:iagree: I have OCD and clinical depression, and I completely agree. I was the same way in high school. When you're a teen and you have depression and anxiety issues, escaping into your own fantasy world is pretty much the only way you can get by without going insane. (My "drug" of choice was the Pern series by Anne McCaffrey. :p) The hormones are bad enough, but with mental health issues on top of that, it's a nightmare. Couple that with the lack of sleep from getting up at five in the morning, and you're lucky she's doing as well as she is, op.

 

I would really recommend taking her to a doctor. Even a low dose of an SSRI can do wonders.

 

YES YES YES.

That's what her drawing is-- she's escaping the anxiety of schoolwork, which she is anxious about, and she's anxious about it because she knows there will be negative consequences, and that makes her more anxious, and so her escape is drawing, which she KNOWS she's good at and can give her a boost of positive energy.

 

I also agree with the early rising. Teens have a bizarre sleep pattern-- they're physiologically programmed to stay up late and sleep late. With her early alarm, she's probably not getting enough sleep, even though "bed time" is 9 pm. I doubt she's actually falling asleep then. Even if you think she is, she isn't.

 

Molly is on a low dose of Celexa, and as I said, four weeks in now and she's literally crying from relief that she feels so good. And remember, she never gave us a moment's cause to discipline her about ANYTHING. If it can make a kid who to all outward appearances was a model child feel so much better, I can only imagine what it would do for a kid who's lashing out.

 

Hugs to you both!

astrid

[jelbe5]

My dd, now 17, presented with some of the issues you describe. She has always been a challenge to homeschool. All she wants to do is read (what she wants to read) and write (what she wants to write).

 

After much effort on my part and little on hers I decided I wanted to be done homeschooling her. We gave her several choices - go to the local high school, get a job and begin to contribute to the household, work on earning a GED or take the Language Proficiency test at the local community college and see if she could enroll. She chose the community college. She did well on the test, took English Comp I in the summer and a Mythology class this semester. She really wanted the Mythology class but had to complete the Comp class first as the Mythology class had that as a Pre-req. She has excelled in these two classes, her confidence has soared and she is registered for 2 classes for next semester. I am thrilled because she is happier, our relationship is improving and we are moving forward. I did tell her initially, that if she did not do the work and bombed the class I would take the tuition $ out of her bank account where she has funds from Chistmas and Birthday gifts since birth.

 

I also have her in therapy and she began Zoloft several months ago. I knew she was depressed but she was not able to articulate it. There are things she needs to continue to work on and is doing this through counseling.

 

She still needs to work on math (her nemises). She has not yet taken the math placement test yet at the college, but she is working on a math book of her choosing at home and plans to take the placement test when that is completed and let the chips fall where they may. If she needs remedial math at the cc that is fine, as long as she does the work. She is beginning to realize if she wants a degree in English she still has to take some math classes since there is a requirement. It is only recently she has begun to think she would actually want a degree.

 

I am sharing this with you in the hope it may encourage you. My dd finally said to me she liked it better if I could be her Mom and someone else her teacher. There are things she still needs to sort out, but we are moving forward finally. She still has to work on the math problem, but she is taking ownership of that. She will be 18 next summer. I feel we are finally becoming unstuck. We have a ways to go and there is not a clear end in sight, but progress is being made.