Parents/teachers of third graders...

[Petrichor]

...could you do me a HUGE favor?

 

Assuming that they studied all of the info covered by this test, would you expect your DC to be able to do well on it?

 

http://www.easytestmaker.com/Services/Document/94864A0E3901492BAD1D4B9EE934B2F0.pdf

 

I teach a class of fewer than 6 students (all third graders) and I gave them this test after finishing a unit spanning 10 hours over 3 weeks and no homework. The average grade was a C.

[Chris in VA]

Some of the vocabulary seems a little high.

The "essay" questions seem a little advanced.

 

Not sure what my child would do with that in 3rd grade...

[kitten18]

Some of the vocabulary seems a little high.

The "essay" questions seem a little advanced.

 

Not sure what my child would do with that in 3rd grade...

:iagree:

[PeacefulChaos]

Some of the vocabulary seems a little high.

The "essay" questions seem a little advanced.

 

Not sure what my child would do with that in 3rd grade...

 

:iagree:

 

I've found that Link's answers to essay questions are still sort of out there - either he misinterprets the question or he writes 2 words. :)

I also found the vocab a little high.

Granted, my kids aren't studying this, so that colors my perspective a little.

[Whereneverever]

Maybe by the end of third grade? It seems a little much for this point in the year.

[PeacefulChaos]

Oh, and I should have added that the last time they looked at it may have had an effect.

Like, 10 hours over 3 weeks isn't all that much to really get all that cemented in their heads, kwim? I did a chapter test on geography that was what we had studied over the course of a few weeks and it was a disaster! :lol: So if they had review on it, I could see it being a little better than if they hadn't really covered it regularly or recently. :)

[....]

UmmAbdullah, would these be 8-9 yro's? I have a 9 yro and I'm pretty sure he could answer most of those questions (except #5, he probably wouldn't understand...maybe #8 he would have a hard time with).

 

In 3rd grade, many kids still struggle with spelling and grammar (I noticed that you included that in the directions). Did spelling and grammar affect their grades?

[Farrar]

Honestly no. My kids have very little practice with multiple choice and only some with matching. They do know most of the matching vocabulary though not all of it. But if we'd just reviewed and learned it, that might be okay. The long answer seems like something my kids could do (not about Michigan specifically, but if I asked, say, "How was the city of Washington planned?" or something we'd done for our we-wish-we-were-a-state study) but not necessarily written. That's the sort of thing we'd do orally.

[Petrichor]

Thanks. This is my first time teaching 3rd grade social studies, and it's hard to figure out whats normal when you have such a small class size. I was told these kids were advanced, so we're using a 4th grade text/tests that I've simplified a little bit. I do plan to give them all a re-take, though I may modify the test a bit if necessary. The classes I teach are supposed to be rigorous, FWIW, but I shouldn't have otherwise smart third graders failing their class! I'll have to start giving homework I think, and I'll just make it optional practice.

[catz]

Are these all homeschooled students too? My 3rd grader can have tons of info, but can be kind of dense at outputting her knowlege well on a test formatted like this. Given 10 hours of work on this, I'm sure she'd know her stuff well, but getting her to output it well? Meh - probably not so much. She is young for grade (turned 8 this summer), but academically works ahead across the boards. I think answering essay questions of that type really well are probably more jr. high level. Orally, my 3rd grader would be fine.

 

Even if the kids didn't do well on the test, I don't think it might not necessarily reflect what they got out of the 10 hours of class time. It might just reflect how good their testing skills are and how willing and able they are to jump through that kind of hoop. I do think testing is a good skill to practice though.

Edited October 1, 2012 by kck

[Petrichor]

I took off .5 point per question for spelling if they misspelled words like "Michigan" or "glacier" or another word that was written on the test papers. Students had unlimited time to finish, but finished well within an hour.

 

ETA: All of these students are coming to me from public or private schools. Their parents prefer private school education to my preference for a more relaxed homeschool style.

Edited October 1, 2012 by UmmAbdullah

[besroma]

Thanks. This is my first time teaching 3rd grade social studies, and it's hard to figure out whats normal when you have such a small class size. I was told these kids were advanced, so we're using a 4th grade text/tests that I've simplified a little bit. I do plan to give them all a re-take, though I may modify the test a bit if necessary. The classes I teach are supposed to be rigorous, FWIW, but I shouldn't have otherwise smart third graders failing their class! I'll have to start giving homework I think, and I'll just make it optional practice.

 

I thought that it seemed more like fourth-grade level when I read the questions.

[Kirch]

Assuming we had covered all the info, I think my third grader would do fine. He's a really strong writer, so he *probably* could have done the essay questions, but in general I think they're a bit much for third grade, especially at the beginning of the year. Even older students might struggle with those.

[Renee in NC]

One of my third graders would be able to do it if someone read it to him, but he would struggle with giving answers to the essay questions (he has very little ability to analyze.)

 

My other third grader would probably have no problem with it if she had learned the material. The grammar/spelling might take some points off, but she struggles with slowing down and paying attention to detail.

 

However, both have been in school (and are in school now) and know how to take tests like these.

[Melissa B]

My dd would not have done well. She would need more white space on her test and would benefit greatly from having the test read to her as there was a lot of vocabulary in those questions. Though I doubt she would have remembered many of those facts anyway - even after 10 hours. :001_smile: She probably would have done best on the short answers.

[Denise in IN]

I have a 3rd grader who is a pretty quick learner.

 

I agree with other that the vocabulary is a bit high. I think the matching questions/definitions are written with more complex vocabulary and are more wordy and abstract than a third or even fourth grade students would do well with.

 

I would not give short answer/essay questions at that age. Writing a complete sentence with correct spelling and punctuation can still be challenging at the beginning of third grade. To add in the thought process of answering a question and possible multiple sentences is a lot. My ds would get at least some of the matching & m/c answers correct, but the short answer questions would send him over the edge!

 

That's my perspective, fwiw. I actually don't do any tests before third grade and just start with spelling and math tests at that age, so I may not be the best person to give an opinion!

[Wheres Toto]

My son could do the multiple choice if it was something we had recently covered. He would not be able to do the essay questions at all, probably not even orally.

[OrganicAnn]

Orally my 3rd grader could do that test. But just given as is with reading and writing, the answer is no. She would have difficulty with the longer words. She knows the words but reading all of them in a question would be difficult for her. She also has difficulty spelling correctly when just writing. She can spell a word correctly for a spelling test, but not when just writing a short answer question.

 

If you really want to test them on that level, you may want to consider doing some oral testing.

 

You also may would to start with easier questions and progress to more difficult words and concepts to figure out 1) are they comprehending the material, but not able to answer the harder questions or 2) not comprehending the material.

[Shellydon]

No. My third grader has never taken any sort of test at all. She had never seen questions like that and wouldn't have any idea how to handle that kind of worksheet/test.

[KungFuPanda]

Thanks. This is my first time teaching 3rd grade social studies, and it's hard to figure out whats normal when you have such a small class size. I was told these kids were advanced, so we're using a 4th grade text/tests that I've simplified a little bit. I do plan to give them all a re-take, though I may modify the test a bit if necessary. The classes I teach are supposed to be rigorous, FWIW, but I shouldn't have otherwise smart third graders failing their class! I'll have to start giving homework I think, and I'll just make it optional practice.

 

 

My rule is that if one or two kids get a C, it's them. If they're all getting C's it's a reflection on my teaching and I need to present the material differently. That, or treat a C as a true C and be satisfied that they all gave an average performance. However, no parent appreciates a C OR believes their child is average, so I'd recommend a curve in this case :D

 

Of course, the kids are 'advanced.' I've yet to see a group of homeschoolers who weren't. We're an optimistic bunch!

[Mommyof4ks]

Have they had testing practice? My kids could have answered those questions in thrd grade, but in that format only my dd could have done decent on it. She is a grat test taker, but my boys are not naturally good test takers, and honestly I have not worked with them much on test taking skills.

[Sahamamama]

Some of the vocabulary seems a little high.

The "essay" questions seem a little advanced.

 

Not sure what my child would do with that in 3rd grade...

 

:iagree:

 

On the matching section there were a few too many choices (13) for the number of questions (7). The questions seemed too crowded to me.

[Farrar]

No idea what they do in schools, but taking off for spelling seems not right for third grade to me, honestly.

 

But others have made it clearer to me - it's not the information, it's the format of the test that my kids would have struggled with.

[KungFuPanda]

I took off .5 point per question for spelling if they misspelled words like "Michigan" or "glacier" or another word that was written on the test papers. Students had unlimited time to finish, but finished well within an hour.

 

ETA: All of these students are coming to me from public or private schools. Their parents prefer private school education to my preference for a more relaxed homeschool style.

 

 

I might note the spelling mistakes, but wouldn't count off for them in an independent geography class.

[IsabelC]

My 9yo could probably recall the concepts and vocabulary if I had studied it with him, but he'd still fail the test because he has a melt-down if I ask him to sit down and do something without explaining each part to him.

 

I would expect that many normal third graders would be able to pass on the test, and gifted children would be able to do well, providing they have covered all the material and are reasonably good readers.

[FlyingMOm]

My 3rd grader is a struggling reader and there is no way, no way she could do this test on her own. Also, it seems visually crowded to me- there isn't enough space and the font it to fussy.

 

Maybe if I read it to her, she could do it orally. Especially if the matching vocab section was split into two smaller sections so that there were fewer choices.

 

There is really no way she could do the short answer/essay portion of the test in written form. She might be able to narrate it to me.

[Dobela]

My son *might* have been able to do that in the 3rd grade. I would take the matching and break it up into 2 or 3 sections with fewer choices. When you give too many choices, it can be overwhelming. I would possibly test for all those choices though by having some students match the word to the picture (like for compass rose and map key). A lot of kids are still thinking in concrete pictures at this age. Instead of "A map tool that can assist in translating map distances to

actual distances" I would put a picture of scale from the map legend and have the child identify it with one of the vocabulay words I give in a list. The multiple choice I might also give fewer choices-just 3. As far as the essay, that is asking for a lot of detailed information. Since most 3rd graders, even some advanced ones, would have difficulty writing multiple grammatically correct sentences, I would not take off points for that, although I would definately encourage complete sentences. When I taught in public school, paragraph writing was really introduced in the 4th grade. My son would have been so focused on spelling and grammar that he would have never given all the information he knew. Instead of having correct grammar emphasized, I might ask them to give me a list or say that I want them to write 3 ways that weather is effected, for example.

[Arcadia]

I took off .5 point per question for spelling if they misspelled words like "Michigan" or "glacier" or another word that was written on the test papers. .

 

My 3rd grader would have copied the words he do not know how to spell from other parts of the test. My first grader would have given his own version of spelling due to personality differences rather than age.

 

My 3rd grader would have fail the test if it was a class that was 10hrs over 3 weeks. If he revise for the test the night before, he would be able to do decently well. However he is a public school kid and used to unit tests.

[airforcefamily]

Honestly, yes, my young for her grade third grader could do well on that test. She would have trouble writing small enough to fit the lines and would probably misspell some words or ask me to spell them out loud but she would do well.

 

but, she's really into maps and geography. She enjoys it enough to do lessons on her own and read about it independently. She knows the terms from our curriculum and glossaries in textbooks. If a test of similar difficulty and vocabulary level was given to her in a different subject - say historical figures - she would not do well at all.

Edited October 1, 2012 by airforcefamily

[Murphy101]

4th grade, with review, yes. The complete sentences and spelling would be 50/50 pending which of my kids at that age. Three of them would have had their brain shut down in stress if they had to do it mini essay style and worry about spelling.

 

Average first semester 3rd grade? No.

[Desert Rat]

My now 4th grader (9yo) is an average learner. I think he would be okay with the vocabulary and the multiple choice last year. There is no way he would be able to do the essay questions. It's not the focus of our education to push extensive writing early on. And spelling is his worst subject.

[sbgrace]

Were the kids familiar with that sort of test? Mine wouldn't be but have been exposed to almost no testing so far so I'm not sure that's a fair comparison. I don't think the material or vocab would be the problem for mine but rather the test itself if that makes sense.

 

Neither of mine would do well with the essay questions. Part of that is lack of exposure and I know we do less writing than public school kids. However, I think expecting proper spelling and grammar is a pretty high expectation for early third grade.

Edited October 1, 2012 by sbgrace

[tex-mex]

I used to teach 3rd grade and homeschooled my ds in 3rd grade also.

 

The short answer questions at the end are way too difficult, IMO. I would use it for 4th/5th grade on up. I recall being lucky just to get one complete sentence from a student in 3rd grade.

 

Everything else looks fine. But reduce the number of matching to make it even -- little ones do get confused if there are too many.

 

The charter school I taught at had many teachers in 3rd grade dock a point off for poor spelling or lack of punctuation. Personally, I felt this was wrong as it was not a spelling test. I never did this to my students.

I would however, write in RED ink the correct word, punctuation or spelling -- many parents appreciated that over being marked down a point.

 

If the class average is 75%... then that suggests you need to go back and review the material with the class. Have them retake another different quiz. Add some True and False in it too. I like the multiple choice too. Hang in there!

Edited October 1, 2012 by tex-mex

[tex-mex]

Thanks. This is my first time teaching 3rd grade social studies, and it's hard to figure out whats normal when you have such a small class size. I was told these kids were advanced, so we're using a 4th grade text/tests that I've simplified a little bit. I do plan to give them all a re-take, though I may modify the test a bit if necessary. The classes I teach are supposed to be rigorous, FWIW, but I shouldn't have otherwise smart third graders failing their class! I'll have to start giving homework I think, and I'll just make it optional practice.

When I taught in the public or charter schools, I would have the group drill by games -- before a major test. Divide the class in half and do a tic tac toe game -- if one side gets the answer correct, they get to make an X or O on the whiteboard.

 

Another game we'd play as a drill was fact cards (on index cards in my hand) and we would start with 2 students facing off. (i.e. first desk vs second desk on row one) I gave them a silver bell like this...

 

and then asked them the question. First one to ring the bell gets to answer it. If answered correctly, they move on to desk three in row one. Sometimes one student can make it past all of the rows. Many of them get beaten by another student. It is a fun game that reviews facts and EVERYONE listens -- by playing.

 

And to be fair, in addition to drilling as a group -- you should send home a study guide for the parents to review or make flashcards. Especially vocabulary. I know I would do so if my child was in a class like that. Parents would want their child ready for the test. HTH

Edited October 1, 2012 by tex-mex

[scrapbookbuzz]

Seems a bit much. Personally, while my third grader would understand, conceptually, the information, he may not understand it in the way your test was presented. He still likes pictures and matching. Match the word to the picture. Draw a line from the word to the definition. That sort of thing. I'm thinking that it's not that your group didn't know the information, it was the way the information was presented on the test.

[Heather in Neverland]

The third graders at my school would do just fine on this test but my school tends to be academically accelerated.

[Momof3littles]

Were the kids familiar with that sort of test? Mine wouldn't be but have been exposed to almost no testing so far so I'm not sure that's a fair comparison. I don't think the material or vocab would be the problem for mine but rather the test itself if that makes sense.

 

Neither of mine would do well with the essay questions. Part of that is lack of exposure and I know we do less writing than public school kids.

:iagree: My DS1 is in 3rd and *just* in the last few weeks is he finally able to handle the work of writing more. He is on WWE3, so we really haven't even gotten to writing a proper paragraph, although we've talked through it and tried it a few times. He still needs help formulating a good topic sentence sometimes, etc. I'd say he has very good verbal skills and so forth, but due to just not enjoying the act of writing, it has taken time to build up to writing more than 3 sentences at a time. And our writing program hasn't really focused on that, which has kind of been a good fit for him. He would do fine with the content, IMO, but the format and idea of testing would be fairly new to him and I'm not 100 percent sure he could handle it.

 

We haven't really done any testing, although he'll take a standardized test at the end of the year to meet our state requirements. But the format, etc. would be fairly new to him and would probably cause him a bit of anxiety.