How come when anything good happens people say that God has blessed you, but

[Karen sn]

when tragedy strikes, God had nothing to do with it?

 

I have heard the old story - a man's son found a horse. Everyone said he was lucky. The old man said, "We shall see."

 

He was riding the horse and fell off and broke a leg.

Everyone said that he was unlucky.

The old man said, "We shall see."

 

A war came - all the boys had to leave the village and die in battle, but the wounded son had to stay home.

 

So - I know that we can never tell what would have befallen us.

Maybe my horse being killed will save me from one of my children being kicked in the head and dying or maimed for life, or maybe the horse would have fallen ill and died a slow painful death.

 

Who knows.

 

But why is everything good always credited to God and yet nothing bad is?

 

If you believe the whole Christian dogma - God made Satan right?

 

If there is a God who actually has any power - what is he really doing with it?

If God could feed the children manna in the desert - why can't he feed the children who die every day in this age?

 

Has God forsaken us - if there ever was one to begin with?

 

Sometimes - I feel it is easier to believe in no God than a god who doesn't care.

 

I personally think there are many of them. And like the poster here whose son said something like this:

The gods are bi-polar. The sooner you realize that, the happier you will be.

 

I think we are in a world beyond our wildest imaginings.

[newbie]

when tragedy strikes, God had nothing to do with it?

 

I have heard the old story - a man's son found a horse. Everyone said he was lucky. The old man said, "We shall see."

 

He was riding the horse and fell off and broke a leg.

Everyone said that he was unlucky.

The old man said, "We shall see."

 

A war came - all the boys had to leave the village and die in battle, but the wounded son had to stay home.

 

So - I know that we can never tell what would have befallen us.

Maybe my horse being killed will save me from one of my children being kicked in the head and dying or maimed for life, or maybe the horse would have fallen ill and died a slow painful death.

 

Who knows.

 

But why is everything good always credited to God and yet nothing bad is?

 

If you believe the whole Christian dogma - God made Satan right?

 

If there is a God who actually has any power - what is he really doing with it?

If God could feed the children manna in the desert - why can't he feed the children who die every day in this age?

 

Has God forsaken us - if there ever was one to begin with?

 

Sometimes - I feel it is easier to believe in no God than a god who doesn't care.

 

I personally think there are many of them. And like the poster here whose son said something like this:

The gods are bi-polar. The sooner you realize that, the happier you will be.

 

I think we are in a world beyond our wildest imaginings.

 

I definitely believe in God and his miracles. I have seen some on this board, and just last wk. with dh test results. I think the bad things are not forsaking. I think it is our freedom of choice. That is something we have to live with everyday. But still bad things happen to good people. I dont believe it is God up there throwing the switch. Or it could be little warnings along the way.

 

We wont know til we get upstairs. I walk with God everyday, sometimes I stumble, but he picks me up. Thank God.

 

Btw, I believe in everyones choice to their own beliefs and opinions.

 

Good luck on your journey and quest for the *truth*.

Jet

[Quiver0f10]

It rains on the just and the unjust. God doesn't promise it's going to be all roses. Unfortunately when sin entered into the world so did death, sickness, pain, suffering etc. But, God is still God today, as He was yesterday and has been and will be forever.

 

I am sorry you are grieving :grouphug:

[tibbyl]

Positive confirmation bias.

[Remudamom]

I believe God has preordained the good and the bad. All of it. My dc's Sunday School teacher told them once than God didn't give her the cancer she had. They replied "Yes he did, and then he cured you!"

[Lisa at Home]

And neither do I.

 

Job 1:21 the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.

 

The focus is not on whether things are being given or taken. The focus is simply that we bless the name of the LORD irregardless.

 

~Lisa

[Guest Virginia Dawn]

It rains on the just and the unjust. :

 

This is what I was going to say. I tend to believe that most of what happens in this world is just the natural course of events. I certainly don't believe God caused your horse's death, or any other death. I cringe when people say "God took him/her."

 

I also believe that blessings are also a natural part of the world God put in place.

I thought of saying more, but I know it would offend someone.

[Jugglin'5]

I believe the same as Remudamom. In Amos 3:6 in the Bible, it says, "If there is calamity in the city, has not the Lord done it?"

 

In Exodus it says that God hardened Pharaoh's heart, but it also says that Pharaoh hardened his own heart. Is that a contradiction? No. Which is it then? I believe it is both. God is sovereign, yet He allows man free will, and evil is a reality.

 

How it works is a mystery, and one could tie oneself up in knots trying to understand it, as many theologians and philosophers have done. God draws straight with crooked lines - He brings good out of evil. I also believe, as a reformed Christian, that death and evil will ultimately be conquered.

 

I can pray knowing that if He chooses to grant my request, He can accomplish whatever He wants, and if He does not, it is for my own good. I know that He sees and knows things that I can never know or see, so I can rest in His purposes.

 

Why evil to begin with? Why did God allow it? Perhaps so that we could see His mercy as well as His Justice; or perhaps so that we could really learn what good is, as contrasted with evil. I believe the orchestrator and sustainer of everything in the Universe has His reasons, and they are way beyond my understanding.

[Trivium Academy]

Because no one wants to hear God is blessing them with trials when they are going through it. It is more of a hindsight is 20/20 thing.

[ereks mom]

"Shall we accept good from God and not evil?" (Job 2:10). The context of this verse is a conversation between Job and his wife. God had allowed Satan to test Job's devotion to God by taking away Job's children, livestock, and servants. But Satan told God that the reason Job didn't renounce his faith was that God had not allowed Satan to afflict Job with disease, so God allowed this also. Job continued to trust God, but his wife suggested that he renounce God and die. Job responded, "Shall we accept good from God and not evil?"

 

I think that Job was asking the same question that the OP is asking: "Why do people credit God for their blessings, but not with their disappointments?" The answer is that God is ultimately sovereign, and in our lives, He allows us to experience what we call "good" and what we call "bad", BUT sometimes -- as the OP pointed out with the illustration of the injured son who could not go to war -- we don't know which is actually which, since we cannot see the whole picture as God does. (Isaiah 55:8 & 9 -- "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the LORD. "As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.")

 

God's perfect plan will be accomplished, though, even though we may not understand it. (God continues in Isaiah 55:10-11 with these words: "As the rain and the snow come down from heaven, and do not return to it without watering the earth and making it bud and flourish, so that it yields seed for the sower and bread for the eater, so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it."

 

I believe that although we don't know God's ultimate plan or reasons, everything God does or allows is meant to bring about the greater good. (Jeremiah 29:11 -- For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you..."; Romans 8:28 -- "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him...")

[PrairieAir]

So - I know that we can never tell what would have befallen us.

Maybe my horse being killed will save me from one of my children being kicked in the head and dying or maimed for life, or maybe the horse would have fallen ill and died a slow painful death.

 

We shall see, Karen. I'm sorry about your horse.

 

But why is everything good always credited to God and yet nothing bad is?

 

Because God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. (I John 1:5) And no, I don't care to debate that with anyone. It's what I believe. I don't think you can hold God responsible for many of the things, good or bad, that happen.

 

If you believe the whole Christian dogma - God made Satan right?

 

God gave Lucifer and all of the angels freedom of will, just as he has given us freedom of will. God did not want automatons or I'm sure He could have made them. We have to choose whether to do good or evil.

 

If there is a God who actually has any power - what is he really doing with it?

If God could feed the children manna in the desert - why can't he feed the children who die every day in this age?

 

I see evidence of God's power, love, and goodness every single day. As I said before, I don't think you can blame God for all the bad that happens in the world. The bad things are a result of man using that freedom of will unwisely.

 

Why are there children starving?

Matthew 5:6 says, "Blessed [are] they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled."

John 6:35 says, "And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst."

I believe, though, that those two verses are talking about much more than physical hunger or thirst.

 

Psalm 37:25 says, "I have been young, and [now] am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread."

I believe this is true. I believe when we turn away from God, we shut ourselves off from His blessings. It doesn't mean that He doesn't desire to help us, but God will not overstep our freedom of will. We have to seek Him.

 

What about in the case of children who have not been taught enough to know God and seek Him? I don't know how to answer that, but I believe there is something in man's makeup that makes it natural for him to seek God and to look for some higher power even from his youth. Remember the first two verses I shared above? I believe that God will find a way to reveal Himself to anyone who seeks to know Him. We have to seek Him and then we have to decide whether to follow Him or deny Him a place in our lives. I have heard stories about people in remote areas of foreign countries who had never heard of the God which I believe in or of the Bible who searched and prayed--as best as they were able--and how God revealed Himself to them through others.

 

Sometimes - I feel it is easier to believe in no God than a god who doesn't care.

 

I can understand that feeling, but I do not think that God doesn't care. He cares an awful lot or He would not have took such great pains to arrange a plan of salvation for us and sent His son for us. I simply believe that we have more choice in things than we realize and we can't blame God for everything bad that comes our way. I think we need to accept more responsibility for the course of our lives and then we also need to remember that sometimes sh!+ just happens. We live in a fallen, imperfect world now, but that is not how God intended for it to be and it is not the way it will always be.

 

Again, I am sorry about your horse. It's always painful to lose someone you love. Think how much richer you are for having had him for the time you did and having had the chance to love him and have that friendship. Hopefully that is something you will always cherish.

 

BTW, I hope no one thinks I am preaching. I've answered because Karen specifically asked and specifically mentioned Christian beliefs.

[Tutor]

when tragedy strikes, God had nothing to do with it?

 

I have heard the old story - a man's son found a horse. Everyone said he was lucky. The old man said, "We shall see."

 

He was riding the horse and fell off and broke a leg.

Everyone said that he was unlucky.

The old man said, "We shall see."

 

A war came - all the boys had to leave the village and die in battle, but the wounded son had to stay home.

 

So - I know that we can never tell what would have befallen us.

Maybe my horse being killed will save me from one of my children being kicked in the head and dying or maimed for life, or maybe the horse would have fallen ill and died a slow painful death.

 

Who knows.

 

But why is everything good always credited to God and yet nothing bad is?

 

If you believe the whole Christian dogma - God made Satan right?

 

If there is a God who actually has any power - what is he really doing with it?

If God could feed the children manna in the desert - why can't he feed the children who die every day in this age?

 

Has God forsaken us - if there ever was one to begin with?

 

Sometimes - I feel it is easier to believe in no God than a god who doesn't care.

 

I personally think there are many of them. And like the poster here whose son said something like this:

The gods are bi-polar. The sooner you realize that, the happier you will be.

 

I think we are in a world beyond our wildest imaginings.

 

Because we're hypocrites? (Well, I am, anyway.)

 

When pressed, we would say, "Yes, God is sovereign."

But our actions and words often speak to the contrary.

[Phred]

Hi Karen,

 

First let me say that, on a human level, I'm sorry for the loss of your friend.

 

Let me also say that, you're brave to have posted this... if I'd done it I'd be hung out to dry...:001_huh:

 

But let me add, since all the other responses are from a believer's POV... that there is no god manipulating things here on earth. Tragic accidents are just that... tragic. No great being allows them to happen, no great being could have prevented them. Humans created the great father figures to give us comfort, to answer questions we could not. But as we learn more and more the things we need gods to answer become smaller and smaller. And the false prophets of the world, the fake healers and the false preachers grow more and more false.

 

There is no god and the Bible is just a book written a long, long time ago. It means what one wants it to mean. Which is why the God of the Bible only does good and not bad. He is what believers want him to be.

[Guest Virginia Dawn]

Well, Phred, Since you have reminded Karen that most of us spoke from a believer's point of view, I think it only fair that you acknowledge that what you posted is merely *your* point of view as well, and that she is free to consider all and decide for herself which is valid, if any. :001_smile:

[Aubrey]

It's easy to believe God is good when someone is healed or a new baby is born.

 

I think faith comes into play at other times. I choose to believe in his goodness even when I can't see it. For me, that doesn't mean a cop-out w/ regard to reason.

 

When my dad died, many people said it was "his time." Baloney. He'd lived a sad, lonely, unfulfilled life, & I'm pretty sure he *chose* to die. Sometimes it's harder to face things like that, because it makes us feel like God is not in control.

 

Instead, though, I believe like some of the others here have mentioned. We live in a fallen world. We are reaping the consequences of sin. The Bible says that on our own, we all deserve HELL. Of course, in the middle of troubled times, none of us feels like that's true, lol!

 

I think children are starving because of our (Christians') failure to BE the body of Christ. To serve and feed, etc. The Bible says it's...really bad...to tell a hungry person to "go & be filled"--to try to reach out to them spiritually & neglect their physical needs. Yet...that's usually what we do.

 

I don't think God has "ordained" bad things. I believe that he has "ordained" salvation for all. Why is he waiting, then? Why is he letting things get so bad before he steps in?

 

Honestly, I don't know. I can think of a lot of possible answers, but none of them is very satisfying. BUT based on what I've *seen* from him, I choose to have faith that he knows what he's doing, & he is good.

 

Not very satisfactory answer always. I haven't lost much in my life, either, so it's easier for me to say, I guess. I imagine sometimes, if I were to encounter a great loss, how would I respond? Would I blame God? Would I still trust him? All I can say is I hope so.

 

:grouphug: I know losing your horse must be hard, but I know, too, that this is about more than that. Take care.

[Crissy]

Well, Phred, Since you have reminded Karen that most of us spoke from a believer's point of view, I think it only fair that you acknowledge that what you posted is merely *your* point of view as well, and that she is free to consider all and decide for herself which is valid, if any. :001_smile:

 

 

With respect, Dawn, I am certain we all know that each of the messages here is given from the poster's personal point of view.

[newbie]

Hi Karen,

 

First let me say that, on a human level, I'm sorry for the loss of your friend.

 

Let me also say that, you're brave to have posted this... if I'd done it I'd be hung out to dry...:001_huh:

 

But let me add, since all the other responses are from a believer's POV... that there is no god manipulating things here on earth. Tragic accidents are just that... tragic. No great being allows them to happen, no great being could have prevented them. Humans created the great father figures to give us comfort, to answer questions we could not. But as we learn more and more the things we need gods to answer become smaller and smaller. And the false prophets of the world, the fake healers and the false preachers grow more and more false.

 

There is no god and the Bible is just a book written a long, long time ago. It means what one wants it to mean. Which is why the God of the Bible only does good and not bad. He is what believers want him to be.

 

This will probably be the first, but maybe not last time I disagree with you.

 

There definitely is a God, what each person calls him is individual. I dont think God manipulates things on earth or anywhere else. He leaves us to our own devises. Thank God, or we would be manipulated.

I believe as we learn more we find the truth, whatever that may be and get closer to him and become larger. I dont know about prophets today, but there are people who have the gift to heal and there are good preachers out there.

 

I do agree the Bible is a book written long ago, by people and it does have individualistic meaning. I also know not all books are in the bible, but what is there, I believe in and follow what is written. That is my choice.

 

I do applaud you for swimming against the stream. Everyone needs to follow their own true path. I know I dont have examples, just basic simple beliefs and faith.

 

Jet

[Kathleen in VA]

I am a Christian and I think that the reason this seems to be the case is because as humans we like to think that when things go "our" way God is blessing us and when they don't, we must be being chastised for some error or sin. This is not what the Bible teaches however - it is just a human way of perceiving good and ill.

 

The truth is that God is control of every detail of the universe. He is well aware of the "bad" and "good" happening to each and every one of His creatures. He has the advantage of knowing the beginning to end - he already knows how this whole thing will turn out.

 

Our problem is He is God and we are not. His thoughts are not our thoughts and His ways are not our ways. What we perceive as good or bad aren't necessarily either. We cannot fit Almighty God into our puny minds - if we could then we would be God.

 

Personally, I could not worship a God I could understand completely. If He is small enough to be comprehended by little ol' me then He is mighty, mighty small. Worship is a very strong word and I think it should be reserved for the one person in the Universe who is beyond all human comprehension.

 

I think it is a very shortsighted thing to say that when something we like happens to us we are being blessed by God and when something we do not like happens we are not. It is just a finite human sort of response. We should be praising God for everything because regardless of what happens to us God is good all the time - His character never changes - He is love and He is not the author of evil. He is also altogether just as well. Do I understand how that plays out in real life? Not even remotely. He is God and I am not.

 

There's more to this than I have time to write now. Just wanted to toss in my 2¢.

[Guest Virginia Dawn]

With respect back, Phred rarely, if ever, acknowledges that what he posts is his opinion or personal belief. Many of the posters on this board obviously consider it a courtesy to state when something is just their opinion or belief, in order to temper the possibly percieved harshness of their words. I think if he would make this concession, it would go a long way toward relieving some of the tension that undeniably exists when he posts.

 

But that is just my opinion.

[Peela]

when tragedy strikes, God had nothing to do with it?

 

If there is a God who actually has any power - what is he really doing with it?

If God could feed the children manna in the desert - why can't he feed the children who die every day in this age?

 

 

 

I think people don't like to not know, it's too scary to live in "I don't know", the Great Mystery of what on earth are we doing here, so they create a God and lots of stories and beliefs to comfort themselves- its been going on a long time, and "our" story of a Christian God (who is a personification of ourselves but with much more power over everything) seems more civilized than the Ancient Greek's polytheistic religion, but it's all the same to me. I do think "I don't know" is the bottom line and anything else is conjecture.

 

I do know that there is a benevolent force in the world, (which I personally don't mind calling God, but its not Christian to me) that grows plants and animals and makes babies have ten adorable fingers and toes, and most tragedy is only tragedy from a very personal point of view. Most suffering is created by beliefs and attitudes of non acceptance of how things actually are. The fact is, the world has gone on for a long time- death, pain, suffering- and within that, there is also a massive amount of beauty and good and the capacity to love and be open to the good, or to shut down and defend and suffer, and see life through those filters. Its up to us. We think its personal, but it isn't. All we have any control over is our own responses.

 

I think its childish to think we can manipulate a God up there with our beliefs in him or our prayers. But, the way the universe actually works is by itself incredibly mysterious and amazing, far beyond our comprehension. Awesome. Just realising our small place in it helps keep suffering in perspective. None of it is "personal" although it feels like it. It's all just the way the universe functions. Creation, destruction, on and on. If we try and only love some parts, and reject others, we suffer.

 

Disclaimer, just my point of view, etc etc etc

[Happy]

I don't know if I can fully express what's on my heart, but consider how many verses in the New Testament speak about challenges, trials, and struggles. I grow in my walk with the Lord in the depths of darkness more than I do in the bright sunlight.

 

Jesus himself told his followers that 'in this world you will have trouble, but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.' Bad things certainly happened to Jesus...and I would consider him among the blessed.

 

Paul tells us in Romans that nothing can separate us from God and that all things work for good in a believer's life. It does not say that ONLY good happens, but that God can take a disaster and turn it to the best.

 

In James 1, we are told to 'Consider it all joy, when we encounter trials....' The verses go on to explain that we grow in patience, perserverence, and so on when we survive the trials. Later in that chapter, James tells us that the man who stands through those times will receive a great reward.

 

Now...do I believe God sends trouble our way? I pray not. But it is clear that God uses bad things to bring his children back to an understanding of HIM. He may not send the trouble, but he allows it. God allowed satan to trouble Job. I sometimes suggest to folks that God is so proud of them he has been talking about them like he did Job. Sometimes what happens is a result of natural law happening.

 

I know in my personal life that I HATE going through tough times and we've been in a lot...losing my dad to cancer when he was only 46 years old. NOt being able to have bio-children. Losing jobs. Losing my mom to cancer when she was only 55. Having a depressed and possibly suicidal child. ....WHat makes it worthwhile to ME is that I have grown. I have changed. I have matured in the Lord in a way that my friends who have not walked the difficult path have not been able to. It's a little like exercise...you don't get strong and ripped until you lift some weights. NOW, I'm able to minister and counsel others who are just now facing challenges. I'm equipped to help.

 

When things aren't going well, I pray that God will show me the lessons to be learned. I certainly do not want to repeat the class!

 

I hope this gives you hope. God is not a mean being. I firmly believe his heart is sad over the death of your horse and the pain it causes you. When the hurt has healed, imagine how kind and sympathic you wll be when someone close to you loses anything precious to them. Your pain and healing may light the way through their loss.

 

It is easy to be mad at God. (I've been there.) It is much harder to try to understand and learn.

[keptwoman]

If there is a God who actually has any power - what is he really doing with it?

If God could feed the children manna in the desert - why can't he feed the children who die every day in this age?

 

Has God forsaken us - if there ever was one to begin with?

 

Sometimes - I feel it is easier to believe in no God than a god who doesn't care.

 

This was the crux of the matter for me. The thing that ended my Christian faith.

For me a loving God can't be in control of this world where too much bad stuff happens.

And for me personally, the deaths of my Father, Mother and Best Friend in close succession was too much.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

Well, Phred, Since you have reminded Karen that most of us spoke from a believer's point of view, I think it only fair that you acknowledge that what you posted is merely *your* point of view as well, and that she is free to consider all and decide for herself which is valid, if any. :001_smile:

 

Well... obviously.

 

???

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

With respect back, Phred rarely, if ever, acknowledges that what he posts is his opinion or personal belief. Many of the posters on this board obviously consider it a courtesy to state when something is just their opinion or belief, in order to temper the possibly percieved harshness of their words. I think if he would make this concession, it would go a long way toward relieving some of the tension that undeniably exists when he posts.

 

But that is just my opinion.

 

Hmm, I see what you're saying. I find that many people speaking from a believer's point of view say not that "this is my opinion," but that "this is what God's Eternal Word says."

 

I appreciate the "IMO" disclaimer, too, but I don't expect it in threads like this. I responded to your original reply because it just seemed to singled out Phred for the need to qualify his response as opinion. ALL of these musings have clearly been opinion, IMO. ;)

[Erica in PA]

The truth is that God is control of every detail of the universe. He is well aware of the "bad" and "good" happening to each and every one of His creatures. He has the advantage of knowing the beginning to end - he already knows how this whole thing will turn out.

 

Our problem is He is God and we are not. His thoughts are not our thoughts and His ways are not our ways. What we perceive as good or bad aren't necessarily either. We cannot fit Almighty God into our puny minds - if we could then we would be God.

 

quote]

 

Very well said, Kathleen!:iagree: I think it's important to remember that God sees the big picture, while we only see what's right in front of us. All of us can remember countless experiences where we suffered terribly at the time, but came out stronger and wiser because of it. In the same way, God is less concerned about our day to day happiness (though He loves us and mourns with us when we mourn), than He ultimately is about our standing before Him, and His plan to conform us to His image, and eventually spending eternity together in heaven. That is the issue of utmost importance in life, and though we may lose sight of that along the way, God doesn't. That's why there's a gap between how we think things ought to be here on earth, and how God allows them to be. (Well, that and the fact that the effects of sin have added much hardship to life as well.)

 

We are finite beings, with limited understanding, and we get caught up in our daily circumstances-- God doesn't have that problem. That is the very reason why we *can* trust Him, more than we can even trust our own judgments-- His perspective is not limited the way ours is.

 

It's very hard to see or know this in the midst of trials. As Jessica mentioned above, it's usually in hindsight that we can later appreciate how our trials have molded and shaped us, though some people do choose to turn away from God forever because of them, which is really, really heartbreaking.

 

Erica

[mcconnellboys]

You might like the logical thinking skills Timothy Keller employs in his book, The Reason for God.

[BakersDozen]

Sometimes - I feel it is easier to believe in no God than a god who doesn't care.

 

I was right there a few years ago. For me it was the loss of my babies (7 losses). My faith in God was shaken to the point that I doubted His existence, His love for me. I absolutely could not see why such things would happen when all around me were women not wanting dc/babies. The sorrow I felt and the confusion overwhelmed any other thought/emotion in me. I actually told God to get out of my life, to leave me alone.

 

Thankfully, He didn't. There is so much I want to share about what I went through but I won't...too long to post here and I'm not sure everyone wants to read it. But I will say this - I'm still a work in progress, my heart still hurts greatly from losses that are continuing to happen, yet the one thing that has happened because of all of this is that I realize that what God wants from me is my trust/faith in Him. He wants me to take my sadness, anger and confusion to Him, to not try to hide from Him or run. I picture one of my dc feeling angry or sad and they come to me...that's what God wants me to do with Him. I don't understand everything that happens, I don't ask whether things are caused by God, but I know from what I've gone through that He has worked all things for good...hard to believe when the loss of human life is involved, yet truly that is how it has turned out, and the "good" is that I have found a deeper relationship with the Lord and a fuller understanding that He does care - He cared enough to let me do my thing, work my way through my sorrow, rant and rave against Him, even tell Him to get lost...and when I was done He was still there loving me. I've never felt His caring presence more. The thing that knocked me out of my despair was the line from Facing the Giants: the husband has stayed up all night praying, his wife (who has just been told that her dh is sterile and there won't be a baby) goes to her dh, and he asks her, "If God never gives us a baby, will you still love Him?" My heart broke, I had to face that question myself and I struggled with the answer, yet I know now what my answer is.

 

 

 

My heart hurts deeply for you, for your loss. I don't want to preach to you but want you to know that I've been there, have posted something just like yours on another board. I pray that you find healing...I am truly sorry for what you are going through.

[Jumping In Puddles]

Someone told me a few weeks ago that they believe in a higher power because when she was in a car accident, she survived because of divine intervention.

 

Well, why was she so lucky to survive and get divine intervention when my brother was in a car accident and died. She deserved to be saved and he didn't ?:confused:

 

I really doubt it.

[cin]

Because no one wants to hear God is blessing them with trials when they are going through it. It is more of a hindsight is 50/50 thing.

 

 

Boy, isn't that the truth. I can now look at my life and say that God has blessed me incredibly, but during the days of infertility, and resigning myself to the fact that children were NOT going to be, I was wondering where He was. Now, I have 2 of the most Beautiful, Smart and INCREDIBLE children one could ever want! Hindsight's 20/20 and I cannot imagine having any other children besides the two for which I waited 12 years. I also cannot trying to raise our girls through some of the trials we went through in those years (including the long illnesses of 3 of our parents).

 

God didn't cause the things to happen to Job, but He ALLOWED them to happen. Satan wanted to attack Job, and he had to ask God. God ALLOWED it to happen, but He too, set boundaries as to how far satan could go.

 

There are 2 phrases that come to mind as I read the responses above. As Silver Refined; Silver & Gold become beautiful by goign through fire, which burns out all the impurities. And the one that means the most to me: We see the page, but HE knows the WHOLE story.

[HSMom2One]

I believe the same as Remudamom. In Amos 3:6 in the Bible' date=' it says, "If there is calamity in the city, has not the Lord done it?"

 

In Exodus it says that God hardened Pharaoh's heart, but it also says that Pharaoh hardened his own heart. Is that a contradiction? No. Which is it then? I believe it is both. God is sovereign, yet He allows man free will, and evil is a reality.

 

How it works is a mystery, and one could tie oneself up in knots trying to understand it, as many theologians and philosophers have done. God draws straight with crooked lines - He brings good out of evil. I also believe, as a reformed Christian, that death and evil will ultimately be conquered.

 

I can pray knowing that if He chooses to grant my request, He can accomplish whatever He wants, and if He does not, it is for my own good. I know that He sees and knows things that I can never know or see, so I can rest in His purposes.

 

Why evil to begin with? Why did God allow it? Perhaps so that we could see His mercy as well as His Justice; or perhaps so that we could really learn what good is, as contrasted with evil. I believe the orchestrator and sustainer of everything in the Universe has His reasons, and they are way beyond my understanding.[/quote']

 

 

:iagree: Thank you for your eloquent post. I am right there with you so this is all I'm going to say.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

[ereks mom]

...as humans we like to think that when things go "our" way God is blessing us and when they don't, we must be being chastised for some error or sin. This is not what the Bible teaches however - it is just a human way of perceiving good and ill.

 

 

 

:iagree:

[HSMom2One]

...My heart hurts deeply for you, for your loss. I don't want to preach to you but want you to know that I've been there, have posted something just like yours on another board. I pray that you find healing...I am truly sorry for what you are going through.

 

To the op, I feel the same as this poster too. My heart goes out to you so much! Please know that others care about you as you grieve over this painful loss.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

[Erica in PA]

Someone told me a few weeks ago that they believe in a higher power because when she was in a car accident, she survived because of divine intervention.

 

Well, why was she so lucky to survive and get divine intervention when my brother was in a car accident and died. She deserved to be saved and he didn't ?:confused:

 

I really doubt it.

 

Sharon,

 

First off, I want to say that I am really sorry about your brother. I have lost loved ones too, and I know that pain goes on, probably for the rest of our lives. There are some tragedies that we just can't ever really get over. It's something you always carry with you in your heart and in your gut, and frequently people will say something to me that just seems to drive the knife in a bit further, even though I know they don't mean to.

 

One thing I did want to mention to you, is that you are right... this woman did not deserve to be saved any more than your brother did. She did not live because she was more special than my loved ones who died, either. But I do believe in divine intervention, in a way-- I believe that God has a plan for each person's life, and how long it is to be. It's not based on how good or bad or special each person is, though. I know I have lived through a couple of things that people could have died from... and I don't think for a moment that I lived because I'm so good God wanted me to live longer. Or when people die, it's not because they were bad or wrong. I just believe that it's His part of His plan for each person. He gave us life, and life on this earth can't last forever, so each of us must die. Within that framework, God carries out His plans. His plan could be for me to die tomorrow, and if so, that's what will happen, and that will ultimately be for good.

 

Anyway, I just wanted to let you know that my heart went out to you reading your post, and I wanted to offer a different perspective in case it could be helpful to you.

 

Erica

[Jugglin'5]

It's not based on how good or bad or special each person is, though. I know I have lived through a couple of things that people could have died from... and I don't think for a moment that I lived because I'm so good God wanted me to live longer. Or when people die, it's not because they were bad or wrong. I just believe that it's His part of His plan for each person. He gave us life, and life on this earth can't last forever, so each of us must die. Within that framework, God carries out His plans. His plan could be for me to die tomorrow, and if so, that's what will happen, and that will ultimately be for good.

 

:iagree: Well said...

[Kathleen in VA]

Someone told me a few weeks ago that they believe in a higher power because when she was in a car accident, she survived because of divine intervention.

 

Well, why was she so lucky to survive and get divine intervention when my brother was in a car accident and died. She deserved to be saved and he didn't ?:confused:

 

I really doubt it.

 

That's poor reasoning on her part. She really has no proof that God intervened. Lots of times folks look at a really banged up car and think the person in the accident should have died considering, but they didn't, so it must have been God. Well, in a way it was because God is in control of everything. But, you are right to ask about your brother then. The truth is all the suffering and pain in this world is caused by sin - someone's sin - not necessarily the person suffering's sin. I'd even venture to say that most of the time, the person who is suffering did not have much, if anything, to do with the sin that caused that particular suffering. We all know of small children killed in accidents by drunk drivers. In that case it was the sin of the drunk driver, not the child. Ultimately it is much too complicated to trace every occurrence of suffering to its original point of sin origin - too many factors involved.

 

That said, God is still good all the time. He is working out His plan, not ours. He grieves with us when we suffer. It breaks His heart to see His creatures suffer. People often ask, "If there is a God, why doesn't He do something?" The answer to that question is, "He already has. He sent His son, Jesus, to reconcile the world unto Himself."

 

Everyone sins, we are born sinners - we are selfish from the get go and want our own way. Sin entered the world when Adam and Eve decided they knew better than God how to live in the world He created. They rebelled against Him and now every human being is born in a rebellious state of mind, kicking and screaming as it were, at the idea of God being in control instead of them.

 

You might ask, why did He allow sin to enter the world? He gave man a free will to choose to obey Him. There is no such thing as obedience if one has no choice but to obey. There is no such thing as love if there no such thing as hate. If you love your children, you hate anything that tries to do them harm. God allowed his creatures to choose and they chose wrongly. Did He know they would do that? Yes, I believe He did. I believe He had worked out His plan of redemption from before the beginning of creation (Ephesians 1). Why? I do not know. He is God, I am not. Ultimately, everything God does He does for His own glory. That is His prerogative - He created it all - He gets to do whatever He wants with it. We are His creatures - He is the Creator. We are to submit to His authority and not demand to be in charge.

 

When Jesus came, the plan was to save "His people from their sins." Here is our hope - here is our salvation. This world offers no hope. No matter how old people live they still die sooner or later. I can try to extend my life on this earth, keep the wrinkles away, exercise, eat right and eventually I will die as well. Our hope does not lie in this world - it lies in the next.

 

We will have trials and sufferings on this earth. Some it it we may bring on ourselves, most of it will seem random. We do not have the big picture. This world is in a state of decay and will always bring us sorrow, grief, tears, discouragement, and disappointment. Jesus paid for the sins of "His people" on the cross (only He knows for sure who they are) so that they might be reconciled to God - He lived the sinless life that none of us can possibly live so that we can know forgiveness and have a right relationship with God once more. Our hope is in Him and His righteousness, not ours. Our hope is in heaven, not this world. We keep plugging away here because He has kept us here for His purposes. When He is ready to bring us home, He will.

 

Our responsibility is to humble ourselves, repent of trying to be our own God, trust in Christ's payment for our sins, and serve Him as many days as He gives us here on earth and then for eternity in heaven.

 

The main thing is to trust God. He has not forsaken you when you are in pain or grieving. He cares more than you will ever know. But he cares less about your life here on earth than your spiritual life for eternity. Eternity is what matters. We are so stuck on our lives here on earth - our pain overwhelms us. We say, "If I were God, I would have done it differently." That is a very scary thing to say. God is God, we are not. He made us. We are not our own. He gets to decide - we must submit.

 

Much of what is preached in churches today is what I call a man-centered gospel. It is the idea that God exists for us - to fix our problems, give us money, heal our bodies, etc. That is not from the Bible. It is pure heresy. The Bible teaches that we were made for Him. We are here to serve Him. We are here to bring Him glory with our lives.

 

God created the world. It is His to do with as He pleases. He revealed Himself to us through His creation, through His word and through His Son, Jesus Christ. If He could create the world, surely he could write a book and see to it that its contents were preserved over thousands of years. Not that big of a deal really.

 

Read the Bible, pray and ask God to reveal Himself to you through His word. Do not look for some mystical experience. God revealed Himself in the Bible, not our experiences. Revelation (the Bible), Reason (our minds, finite as they are), Experience (our lives) - this is the biblical order of how we learn about God.

 

I'm very sorry for the loss of your brother. God was there. He is here now. He loves you. Please do not judge God based on the foolish statements others may have made regarding Him.:grouphug:

[Kate CA]

Let me also say that, you're brave to have posted this... if I'd done it I'd be hung out to dry...:001_huh:

 

I want to offer (in the spirit of information sharing, and in no way bashing) that perhaps if you posted something like this we would know you were not really asking the questions. You have been as forthright with your unbelief as many of us are with our belief. So if you were to post what I believe are Karen's genuine questions we would know it was not a "real" post. Karen's obviously is. :001_smile:

 

There is no god and the Bible is just a book written a long, long time ago. It means what one wants it to mean. Which is why the God of the Bible only does good and not bad. He is what believers want him to be.

 

There are several people in this thread already that have addressed some of your points. There are some that claim God only does "good" but what is the definition of "good" to one is not to another. What I may view as tragic at the time of its happening may very well turn out to be the best thing for me. I do trust that all things work together for good to those that love God.

 

I also believe that the world we see today is not the world God designed. (I know you don't believe this, but I am trying to address your points. :)) I think you are familiar enough with Christianity to know that we believe that when sin entered the world death and suffering also did. Also that sin was caused by humans and it continues today. The good news, of course, is that there is forgiveness through Christ for the sins we commit against one another every day and one day there will be no more suffering. Suffering now though, is for our good. That is sometimes a very hard thing to accept or understand--even for those like me who believe it.

 

I recognize you don't accept this, but I thought I would offer it as a response to your comment that God is what we Christians want Him to be. God is not always who I would want Him to be were I in charge and that is where my faith comes in. I simply don't always know why He does what He does, but I do believe it is for my good and His glory. Peace to you. :001_smile:

[Laurie4b]

I am sorry about the loss of your horse. May you meet him again in Aslan's country!

 

Here's something that has helped my pea-brain when painful things happen that we don't understand. When my kiddos were babies, and I had to hold them while the nurses stuck needles into their chubby little thighs, I would cry. There was no way that I could explain why I was letting strangers stick needles in them. My motives were for their good. And I felt their pain, maybe more than they did. Interestingly, they cried only for the actual pain and were quickly comforted when I held them and nursed them. When they got older, they screamed more before the shots (in anticipation) than when the actual needle went in. What went on in their minds actually added to the pain. It was less when they simply sought comfort in me, and when they didn't worry about what was coming.

 

Like I said, for this pea-brain mama, this is a picture of God and me. God is like the mama. Ain't no way He could explain why xyz happens as it happens to my little self, but I know from his Word that when I am in pain, so is He. (e.g."In asmuch as you have done it to the least of these, you've done it to me") He's not a puppeteer up there manipulating the strings, uncaring about the puppets. If He was, I couldn't trust him, and for many years, I didn't. But because I know that He is with me in my pain, I can trust him. And when I trust him, the pain is only what it is, it isn't all the other things my mind can add to it when I'm not trusting.

[teamturner]

"Shall we accept good from God and not evil?" (Job 2:10). The context of this verse is a conversation between Job and his wife. God had allowed Satan to test Job's devotion to God by taking away Job's children, livestock, and servants. But Satan told God that the reason Job didn't renounce his faith was that God had not allowed Satan to afflict Job with disease, so God allowed this also. Job continued to trust God, but his wife suggested that he renounce God and die. Job responded, "Shall we accept good from God and not evil?"

 

I think that Job was asking the same question that the OP is asking: "Why do people credit God for their blessings, but not with their disappointments?" The answer is that God is ultimately sovereign, and in our lives, He allows us to experience what we call "good" and what we call "bad", BUT sometimes -- as the OP pointed out with the illustration of the injured son who could not go to war -- we don't know which is actually which, since we cannot see the whole picture as God does. (Isaiah 55:8 & 9 -- "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the LORD. "As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.")

 

God's perfect plan will be accomplished, though, even though we may not understand it. (God continues in Isaiah 55:10-11 with these words: "As the rain and the snow come down from heaven, and do not return to it without watering the earth and making it bud and flourish, so that it yields seed for the sower and bread for the eater, so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it."

 

I believe that although we don't know God's ultimate plan or reasons, everything God does or allows is meant to bring about the greater good. (Jeremiah 29:11 -- For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you..."; Romans 8:28 -- "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him...")

 

The key word that Ereks Mom mentioned that I like to focus on is God *allows* things to happen. And I agree with Remudamom in that God preordains all things in our lives. I know that is not what all Christians believe but it is what many understand the whole of the Bible to say. I pray that you will feel the comfort of God reaching out to you and the love and concern of all of us on the board in the midst of your sorrow. :grouphug:

[Lorna in the boonies]

Kathleen in VA wrote a very good post.

 

May I tell you a (long and rambling, but there's a point) story from my life?

 

In 1999, my newborn daughter died. She was the third daughter I had lost in just over 5 years, having lost two others to stillbirth.

 

About a month after her death, I hit an all-time low. While I was never suicidal, I began to wish that I would die in an accident. I didn't want to live any longer. My daughter was in the grave, and I didn't see any reason why I shouldn't be, too.

 

Why did I have to lose three daughters when so many other people had never lost one? It wasn't fair, and I was feeling completely betrayed. I knew that God loved me, and I believed He had a plan for my life, as well as my daughter's life, but I wasn't feeling very loved at the time. I believed that my daughter's death had been allowed (but not caused) by God, and I was hurt to my core. My pain and my grief were worse than I could ever have imagined.

 

One day my son, who had just turned three, asked me, "Mommy, when I was just born, did I live in the cemetery like Talitha, and did I dig out of the ground once I knew how to walk and did I walk to our house and knock on the door and you let me come in to live with you?" And that was the straw that broke the camel's back. My three year old thought it was normal for babies to live in the cemetery and was expecting his sister to eventually come home!

 

I told dh that I was going to leave the kids with him for a few days while I went to visit my parents. At home, I was constantly reminded that my daughter was in the cemetery just a mile away, and there was nothing I could do about it. My babyless house mocked me.

 

The next day, I got in the car and started the drive to my parents' house. About half an hour down the road, a song I had never heard before came on the radio. It was by Scott Krippayne, and it was entitled "You Have Been Good". I didn't get past the first verse (one line of which really, really applied to me) before tears were coursing down my cheeks. I had to pull over into a Sonic parking lot. And in that parking lot, God reminded me of His love for me. I bawled and bawled, and during the course of that one song, He healed me of all the hurt and pain and grief and feelings of betrayal.

 

Here are the words:

 

If I never get to see another rainbow or share another laugh with a friend

If I never stand barefoot by the ocean or get to kiss my child goodnight again

If I never have another prayer that's answered or have another blessing come my way

If this is all I know of heaven's kindness, Father, I would still have to say,

 

You have been good, You have been good

And I am in wonder, how could it be

You have been good, You've been so good

In so many ways You've been good to me

 

You have shown me mercy upon mercy, grace upon grace, time after time

I know all too well what I'm deserving, yet You are still so patient and kind

 

You have been good, You have been good

And I am in wonder, how could it be

You have been good, You've been so good

In so many ways You've been good to me

 

If suddenly it all were ended and your blessings disappeared

Looking back over a lifetime, the evidence is clear

 

You have been good, You have been good

And I am in wonder, how could it be

You have been good, You've been so good

In so many ways You've been good to me

 

I believe that my daughter died because we live in a sin-cursed world. I do not believe that God caused her death, but I do believe that God allowed her death. And I believe that, one day, I'll know why.

 

When we received her diagnosis, we of course prayed for her healing -- but we also prayed that God's will would be done, even if it meant her death. (You can see from the beginning of my post how, even though I sincerely meant that, I still struggled with it for a little while after the fact.) I've heard from enough people over the years who have told me how her short life affected them that I have no doubt that God had a plan for my daughter's life, and she fulfilled it.

 

This doesn't mean that I don't still get sad at times. My youngest daughter's best friend was born on the day we held Talitha's funeral. It's sometimes very hard for me to go to her friend's birthday parties, knowing that they were celebrating new life on the exact same day we were saying good-bye. And I can't look at her friend without being reminded of (and wondering what) my daughter would have been like.

 

I can only see what's right in front of me. God can see the finished product. He knows the whys. In 1999, it was hard for me to trust Him. Most times it's easier. I have to remember to trust Him no matter what, in the good times and in the bad. He really has been good to me.

 

I'm very sorry about your horse. Loss of any kind is such a hard thing to cope with, and I can imagine that for it to have happened in the manner it did makes it that much harder to bear (awkward sentence, I know, but it's late).

[MerryAtHope]

But why is everything good always credited to God and yet nothing bad is?

 

That's not how it is in the Bible--The Lord gives, and the Lord takes away (Job), or read what Naomi says in Ruth (Call me Mara, God has made my life bitter...rough paraphrase), or read the Psalms (Ps. 13, How long oh Lord...). We walk, with God, through the valley of the shadow of death. It sounds so poetic that way, but it can be horrifying, I know first hand.

 

If God could feed the children manna in the desert - why can't he feed the children who die every day in this age?

 

Why won't we? Where is our responsibility, compassion, and care for our fellow man?

 

Has God forsaken us - if there ever was one to begin with?

 

Sometimes - I feel it is easier to believe in no God than a god who doesn't care.

 

 

My husband has been disabled for 8 years due to chronic Lyme disease. He has pain in all of his joints and muscles, plus dizziness, confusion, memory lapses (a couple of times he has even forgotten who I am), anxiety, depression, sensitivities to light, sound, chemicals... So I can relate to feeling forsaken and truly wondering if God cares. I hear your heart and your hurt, and there are no easy answers.

 

But I do believe that God both exists and cares about what we go through--in fact I think He weeps with us. Jesus who lived through intense anguish in His life on earth, continues to choose to live through it along with us. He doesn't merely see our pain; He says that "whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me." (Mt 25:40). He is hungry, thirsty, a stranger, naked, sick, and in prison, along with us. When He says "never will I leave you, never will I forsake you," He means to impart a depth of love that if we truly understood it, would take our breath away.

 

I have written about this quite a bit in an article in Marriage Partnership Mag called Testing our vows, on my blog, and on my website if you're interested in reading more.

 

I'm so sorry about your horse.

 

Merry

[summer]

I think basically, we are like small children in the realm of the entire universe...probably babies. And like our babies and toddlers understand something but not most of stuff or understand why we do things, is why we don't understand all that goes on. People want to explain everything and a simple answer. How do you explain calculus to a 3 yr old? Basically, you brush over it because they cannot possibly do calculus. Same things applies here. We do not understand why God, or the Gods or whatever, do things. I personally do not know that God created Satan, or if he did, if it was willful. Even the bible (Genesis) recognizes the existance of other supreme beings. And throughout we are told to pray to no other gods but our God. Well, I am not going to tell my children to not drink from any of the other cups if there are no other cups.

 

Aside from all that..I just think we are mere infants and toddlers and we cannot understand or explain much because we simply do not have the capacity to do so. Not many real human beings would admit they are not capable of understanding something because humans tend to be very arrogant.

[Once]

Karen, I am so sorry for your loss and grief. I can only imagine how lonely and down you must feel tonight.

 

I have no answers but I wanted to respond to your post with the thoughts that give me comfort. I sounds like you are genuinely asking hard questions which is tough and rewarding at the same time. I hope that you will seek God to answer the harder questions about Himself. He longs to give you anwers. The only verse from scripture that I was thinking of when reading these thoughtful and compassionate posts by others is from Job.

 

Job 13:15 "Though He slay me, yet will I hope in Him; I will surely defend my ways to His face. Indeed, this might turn out to be my deliverance, for no godless man would dare come before Him!"

 

I only send you prayers for peace. I have hurt beyond words before and I know that it is a life changing process to suffer loss such as yours. Ask the hard stuff and seek answers from the One of whom they are about.

 

(I am hitting reply with a little fear and trembling. This goes with the hope that it will bless you.)

[Sweetpeach]

Philip Yancey's Prayer: Does It Make Any Difference?

 

He grapples with many of the points, questions and ideas posted in this thread - a very good read.

[Twinmom]

I am sorry about the loss of your horse. May you meet him again in Aslan's country!

 

Here's something that has helped my pea-brain when painful things happen that we don't understand. When my kiddos were babies, and I had to hold them while the nurses stuck needles into their chubby little thighs, I would cry. There was no way that I could explain why I was letting strangers stick needles in them. My motives were for their good. And I felt their pain, maybe more than they did. Interestingly, they cried only for the actual pain and were quickly comforted when I held them and nursed them. When they got older, they screamed more before the shots (in anticipation) than when the actual needle went in. What went on in their minds actually added to the pain. It was less when they simply sought comfort in me, and when they didn't worry about what was coming.

 

Like I said, for this pea-brain mama, this is a picture of God and me. God is like the mama. Ain't no way He could explain why xyz happens as it happens to my little self, but I know from his Word that when I am in pain, so is He. (e.g."In asmuch as you have done it to the least of these, you've done it to me") He's not a puppeteer up there manipulating the strings, uncaring about the puppets. If He was, I couldn't trust him, and for many years, I didn't. But because I know that He is with me in my pain, I can trust him. And when I trust him, the pain is only what it is, it isn't all the other things my mind can add to it when I'm not trusting.

 

Laurie, that's pretty darn eloquent. If the system would let me rep you for it, I'd be all over it! :D

 

Karen...as I said on your original horse thread, my heart goes out to you. I am so sorry for your loss. I remember being in a similar place when my dog was hit by a car, and it's no fun. No way around it, it is awful. Please take care of yourself and let yourself grieve.

 

That said, I totally agree with Laurie. I think God is so much bigger than our own understanding...ultimately, there is no way we are going to totally understand Him in this life. The Bible says that for now, we see Him as through a dark mirror, but soon we will see Him face to face. I believe we will understand so much better when we see Him face to face; for now, we are called only to have the faith of a child. Having the faith of a child means we are like Laurie's kids when they get shots. No way are we not going to hurt, complain, fight, cry or whatever when things hurt...that's just the nature of being human. Sometimes we can temper our response, other times we can't. However, to have faith means that we do trust God even in those times...trust Him that He ultimately has our best interests at heart.

 

Does that mean that He planned since the beginning of the world for your horse to die, and that you should just placidly trust that it was for your good? I don't think so. Personally, I think that God is grieving with you. I think that God hates death and would not have chosen for the world to end up this way. Does that mean that He is not omnipotent, since obviously there IS death and bad things DO happen? Nope. What it means is that when God made us in His image, He gave us the power to choose. To choose good or evil, sin or fellowship with Him. Humanity collectively chose to go our own way, to break fellowship with Him, to bring sin and death into the world. God in His wisdom allowed that choice because to do anything else would have been to make us less like Him, made us less human. He wants us to CHOOSE to come to Him, even if that means we turn away from Him before we ultimately come back. And He does give us a way back...through Jesus! Talk about a sacrifice there!

 

God is the ultimate, loving parent who allows us to go our own way until we see "the error of our ways"...and look toward the door of complete reconciliation that God offers through Jesus. I'll tell you the same thing I told my Mom when she lost her mom to cancer and her dad to Alzheimers within months of each other. They were not to blame for their illness, not directly. Sin is in the world because of the collective choice of humans, and illness and death is the result. They were not specifically targeted for those illnesses, no more so than were you targeted for the death of your horse. God is grieving with you. He does, however, ultimately have your good in mind. The Bible promises that He has a plan for you, a plan for your good and not for evil, to bring you a future and a hope (Jeremiah 29:11). He CAN bring good from evil, joy from sadness, and He'll do that for you if you lean on Him.

 

:grouphug:

[Chris in VA]

I just wanted to say, I'm sorry for your loss, and I will hold you in prayer today. It may not mean much to you, but thank you for gifting me with the opportunity to think about my own beliefs, to pray, and to care.

[wheezie]

 

I believe that my daughter died because we live in a sin-cursed world. I do not believe that God caused her death, but I do believe that God allowed her death. And I believe that, one day, I'll know why.

 

When we received her diagnosis, we of course prayed for her healing -- but we also prayed that God's will would be done, even if it meant her death. (You can see from the beginning of my post how, even though I sincerely meant that, I still struggled with it for a little while after the fact.) I've heard from enough people over the years who have told me how her short life affected them that I have no doubt that God had a plan for my daughter's life, and she fulfilled it.

 

.

 

ITA! My son died when he was just 3 weeks old, and while I know that God *could* have healed him, He chose not to. He allowed my Ryan's death, for reasons I couldn't even begin to understand at that time. Now, 4 years later, I'm starting to understand *some* of His plan. Losing a child has brought out such compassion in me toward others who have lost children. Did I get mad at God? You betcha. I can clearly remember one day dh was trying to help me process my feelings and I said some truly terrible things about God and his promises. That was the lowest I have ever been. I finally realized one day though, that if I didn't have God, I didn't have anything. It's been a rocky, rough road, but I'm more in love with God now than I ever have been.

 

God *is* good, but this world is not.

 

OP-I'm truly sorry about your loss.:grouphug:

[PiCO]

I think it is our freedom of choice.

Jet

 

So, if the bad things that happen are our freedom of choice, what about the good things?

 

If bad things happen due to our choices, would there have been different outcomes if we had chosen differently? Maybe children wouldn't get cancer if they had made different choices?

 

I believe we have control over much of our lives, but sometimes we just have bad luck. Karen sn could have shut the gate and the horse would not have run away, but it was a stroke of bad luck that the horse was hit by a van. The horse could have crossed the road a minute earlier or a minute later and been fine. The van could have been driving slower and missed the horse. It was just bad luck, and very sad. {{{hugs}}}

[PiCO]

The truth is that God is control of every detail of the universe.

 

 

There are too many inconsistencies and things that are just wrong in the universe for me to believe this.

 

 

The way I see it, we have 3 God choices:

 

1. God is all-knowing and all-powerful, but he doesn't care what happens down here.

 

2. God is all-knowing, but not all-powerful- he can't fix anything.

 

3. God is all-powerful, but he doesn't really know everything that 's going on.

 

(Ok, there are more choices- but not if you believe there is one god.

4. there are no gods.

5. there are many gods, and they have different agendas.)

[Tammy]

I agree!

[PiCO]

I think its childish to think we can manipulate a God up there with our beliefs in him or our prayers. But, the way the universe actually works is by itself incredibly mysterious and amazing, far beyond our comprehension. Awesome. Just realising our small place in it helps keep suffering in perspective. None of it is "personal" although it feels like it. It's all just the way the universe functions. Creation, destruction, on and on. If we try and only love some parts, and reject others, we suffer.

 

Disclaimer, just my point of view, etc etc etc

 

:iagree: (This is the first time I've ever used this smiley.)