Does anyone else not understand 4-H?

[Hoot]

I've been to their website a zillion times over the years and I STILL just don't get it. It all just seems so convoluted. I always thought it was all farming and animal type stuff, but it seems that they have other things like Public Speaking as well. I would love for DS13 to be involved in Public Speaking and I know he would love something that involves meteorology or filmmaking but I just can't make heads or tails of how 4-H works. Is there a Dummies guide? :tongue_smilie:

[Mandamom]

I was in 4-H years and years ago. I primarily did horses but I did do a meteorology unit that I learned a lot from. My youngest sister did dog obedience.

 

So, yes there are tons of options. You need to find the right group for you -- some groups are specific (raising cows, riding horses, etc.) while others might have groups with your child's common interests.

[kwg]

I can't get it either!

[Paintedlady]

I was at our county fair the other day and had this exact conversation with the lady in the 4-H building. She could not give me a straight answer about it, which astounded me. When I asked her give me 4-H in a nutshell, she couldn't. I left as confused as when I went in.

[dbmamaz]

I've been confused too. my impression is that it just totally depends on who organizes a local group and what they choose to do. There was one local group which would have been a bad fit for us (confirmed through emails) and i finally gave up.

[*Michelle*]

I thought I had an idea, but after some recent threads I'm completely confused. Maybe I'm conflating 4-H with FFA.

[stripe]

Yeah, I tried to talk to people, I found a list of all the groups in my state. I called one leader, and, guess what, depite what the description said, everyone in her group is a teen girl working with horses. Ok then. I went to another group, and it seems to have ZERO to do with 4H, just a bunch of kids idly hanging out. I was looking for activities or something. I gave up.

 

My husband has a friend whose daughters just graduated hs amd were in 4H, but they're not in our area.

[kokotg]

We're signing the kids up for archery club....they've been a couple of times to try it out, and then last week I asked for the membership form so we could sign them up. I was surprised to learn that it's actually a 4H membership form. I'd had no idea 4H was behind the archery club. So I guess we're about to be 4H members....but I doubt that will help me understand it better.

[PeterPan]

Ok, we haven't done 4H, but I can probably help you. From talking with my friends who do 4H, it appears they have lots of workbooks on lots of topics. Each group leader starts a "group," assembles children, and then decides what they want to do. Groups typically have a focus (history, archery, crafting for girls, whatever) and so they pick the workbooks that fit their group's core interest. Each dc does his/her own workbook(s), and they're meant to be rather self-driven, with the group leader as a mentor. The dc are not necessarily all doing the same workbooks. They can chose and pick within that realm of what the mentor/leader is willing to supervise. Groups will also have activities at their meetings.

 

To me it's the same kind of stuff we do at home. It's just they get to go through a competition structure and go to the State Fair. There's also the pleasure of the group process and the accountability. If you don't need any of that, you can actually go to your County Extension Office and buy the workbooks yourself. They're inexpensive, usually a few dollars each.

[Closeacademy]

I've found that the groups generally focus on meetings, exploring some of the project areas and spend a lot of time on Volunteer type things. I have found that most of the books do not work well for group settings and that it is best just to do them at home and then work on the projects at home as well.

 

They do make a nice addition to homeschool and cover a huge amount of topics. Ours even has state history this past year.

 

At fair time, the kids bring in their projects and books and such and are judged. Judging can be pretty tough. They pick at very little things, expect you to be willing to spend a lot of money on the things that you make, and it can be a harrowing experience for everyone.

 

I have had a judge actually tell me that I need to buy 2 sets of supplies for everything we make and also to make 2 so that things match and if something gets damaged we have a back-up.

 

I was really hoping it would be more about doing things from scratch and doing a good job and less about fancy, expensive things to make the projects look more professional.

 

Our projects typically had a homemade feel and looked very out of place next to projects that people had spent huge amounts of money to make "perfect."

:001_smile:

[mama27]

Some of my kids were actually in 4H for several years and I STILL don't get it!

They held monthly meetings with certain kids as president, vive pres, treasurer, etc. and they took votes of wether they would do certain projects like have a booth at a local saftey fair thingie and tell people about 4H. So then KIDS were supposed to vote on this but in reality the PARENTS were the deciding factors because...duh...we drive! Then there would be long, drawn-out discussions about wether or not to do that.

Then someone woud suggest a field trip like going to a state park and having a ranger teach about the tress and stuff. Ok, then they would have to decide how much it would cost, if we had enough money in the account, etc. Then we would go on the trip and the parents would ask 5 trillion questions so they could get all the answers that were in the project book while the older kids tried to look interested and the younger kids sweated to death and died of boredom because the moms asked so many questions.

All the field trips, group project books, etc. were voted on.

Most of the kids also did seperate project books and a lot of the parenst would set up field trips or demonstrations so their kids and any other who were doing the same books could get the answers. The parents did most of the work, as far as I saw.

Then at the end of the school year, the kids turn in these project books and get ribbons for them. They had a very looooooong banquet where the kids were presented with the ribbons.

Some of the kids would raise livestock which got auctioned off at the fair.

Some showed chickens, ducks, rabbits.

All of these things were awarded and it was a VERY, VERY competative atmoshphere.

Also, we lived ina REAL small town and the same kids always got first place, blue ribbons, etc.

BUT it wasn't really the kids doing this, it was the parents, kwim?

Also, the meetings were SOOOOO unorganized even though they tried to make it look like they were organized.

This sounds like I know a lot about 4H but I still don't understnad the PURPOSE of it.

[momto2Cs]

We have a very active 4H around here. Specifically, we have been a part of the homeschool club. This is how it works in OUR club... not sure about 4H in general. :tongue_smilie:

 

Each month, Sept. -June, we have a club meeting. The kids are the president/VP/secretary/etc. (voted in the previous May), and they run most of the meeting, though parents will assist as needed.

 

Parents, teens, and parent-child combos offer "projects". Usually, you have a project meeting for each project you sign up for once a month. For example, we have a book club. Each month, we rotate families for selection of a book, then at the end of the month, we meet up, discuss the book, and do something related to the book - crafts, foods, games, and so forth.

 

As another example, I ran a science project two years ago. Once a month, we ("we" being all who signed up for the project) would all gather at our 4H center, and after a brief introduction, we would do some science projects and/or crafts. This year, ds11 will be the junior leader on our Mythbusters Science project, using this book as a jumping off point.

 

Other projects offered have been sewing, felting, cooking, cake decorating, American history crafts, geo-caching, hiking, running, foam weaponry, public speaking, nature crafts, birdwatching, and more. This year, I know that there is a roller skating project in the works. We are obviously NOT an animal focused club! It is a good idea to keep record books when the kid hits about 11 or so, though I'll have both kids helping me with them this year.

 

You're free to sign up for whichever projects interest you, age limits, etc. withstanding. As a parent, you can offer just about any project, although you will have to go through fingerprinting/a background check, and "4H Leadership Training" (a two hour seminar) before you can work with the kids.

 

Besides all that, we fund-raise for specific goals, like Habitat for Humanity, or Project Heifer. We have an end-of-year party every June. We also have a booth and work at the Chicken-Que, the only county-wide fundraiser each year, which allows for the 4H building to be maintained, money for club events, and so on.

 

Hope this helps a little! I had someone who moved here from back east tell me we function more like a parents' co-op than regular 4H, but I don't know either way on that one. Just look at all the clubs in your area, and contact any that sound interesting to learn more.

[Ellie]

I don't know why it needs to be so confusing. :glare:

 

Even trying to find a local group is a major undertaking. :glare:

 

Theoretically, each club has one general monthly business meeting, which should be run as much as possible by the children.

 

Then there are individual projects, which have meetings as necessary.

 

In order to earn the awards, members have to attend a certain percentage of the monthly meeting, and the same percentage of meetings for their individual projects.

 

Anyone can start a project, for just about anything.

 

The group we were members of in San Diego seemed to be very well organized. We did rabbits (only one, lol), and guinea pigs. I don't remember what else (it was 1984-87). Although we participated in the Del Mar Fair, not everything was focussed on the fair; project and business meetings were year-round.

 

In San Jose, we did canning, ceramics, food preservation (which was different than canning), and some other crafty thing. And we did special events (presentations?? Something where the girls did a project of some kind...cooked a meal?...and were judged on it) I forget...I'm old. :D But *everything* was focussed on the Santa Clara County Fair, and when that folded, so did the 4-H club.

 

At that time, 4-H members earned three pins--bronze, silver, and gold--and the requirements were clearly defined in their record books. It doesn't look that way now, but then, I'm having trouble finding that information. No samples of records books (which were wondrous; many 4-H'ers used them as part of their portfolios when they applied to college).

 

And that's pretty much the extent of my knowledge. :)

[Mom22ns]

4-H is pretty popular in this area. I think what makes it confusing is that each group can be whatever it wants to be. Here there is a robotics 4-H group that won a state Lego Robotics competition and placed well at nationals.

 

There is another group that just does horses. There are several mixed groups that do various projects.

 

My kids did their Jr level (sorry don't remember what it was called) for a year or two when they were little. It was kind of like brownies with both boys and girls included.

[shanvan]

I'm going to admit that 4H can be confusing to new members. Part of the problem is that how the county and state run their programs can vary.

 

Where we live each club is organized around a subject. We belong to a Dog club, but there are small animal clubs, sewing clubs, art, horse, ecology, citizenship, etc. Basically anyone with an idea can form a club and call it whatever they want.

 

There are project books available for many of the clubs that are specific to that project. For example, dogs are our project area, so my Dc complete a Dog Care & Training Project book. They keep track of expenses, time spent with their dogs, events attended, awards won, and any other 4H projects they complete---like the county public presentations they do every year in spring. Presentations are the public speaking part of 4H and every child in every single club must complete a presentation at a club meeting in order to be eligible for yearly achievement pins and awards.

 

Because we are a dog club, most of our meetings are spent training dogs. We have a short business meeting at the beginning run by the president (currently my Ds). Ds keeps the meetings short. In the winter we have a couple of planning meetings without dogs.

 

Other clubs conduct their meetings differently. I know there is a local homeschool club that just votes on projects they want to complete and then works on them for a while. They just use a generic record book.

 

Our kids in Dog club are also able to enter all kinds of projects at the county fair for judging. My kids entered photography, cross stitch and drawing projects this year. They had to learn about and complete them on their own. No club time is devoted to those areas b/c our club is focused on dogs.

 

Really the only way to learn about 4H in your area is to visit your county agent, get a list of clubs and visit some club meetings.

[Hoot]

Wow. What a mess. :glare: Thanks for explaining. This really doesn't sound like something I want to spend time or energy on. I'm thinking we'll just stick to the homeschool network that we're already involved in.

[jfletcher8091]

Wow. What a mess. :glare: Thanks for explaining. This really doesn't sound like something I want to spend time or energy on. I'm thinking we'll just stick to the homeschool network that we're already involved in.

 

 

Don't give up! Take the time to meet with your 4H agent and discuss what is available in your county before you throw in the towel. 4H differs greatly from area to area, but I think that is because they rely HEAVILY on volunteers to run groups and programs. They offer programs that they have volunteers willing and able to run.

 

Most of the agents are great- just remember that they are government employees- usually overworked and underpaid. There is only so much one person can do, and they rely on volunteers to fill in the gaps. We have had wonderful experiences with 4H- my older daughter was in the Animal Club (until the volunteer quit), which included presentations (public speaking) and has done canning classes. Both my kids have taken cooking classes and have been to both day and overnight camps with 4H. I run an afterschool gardening program (Junior Master Gardeners). The 4 H program is also heavily involved with the science fair.

 

Just sayin'- give it a shot!

[shanvan]

Don't give up! Take the time to meet with your 4H agent and discuss what is available in your county before you throw in the towel. 4H differs greatly from area to area, but I think that is because they rely HEAVILY on volunteers to run groups and programs. They offer programs that they have volunteers willing and able to run.

 

Most of the agents are great- just remember that they are government employees- usually overworked and underpaid. There is only so much one person can do, and they rely on volunteers to fill in the gaps. We have had wonderful experiences with 4H- my older daughter was in the Animal Club (until the volunteer quit), which included presentations (public speaking) and has done canning classes. Both my kids have taken cooking classes and have been to both day and overnight camps with 4H. I run an afterschool gardening program (Junior Master Gardeners). The 4 H program is also heavily involved with the science fair.

 

Just sayin'- give it a shot!

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree: I can understand why you are finding it confusing, but it isn't really a mess. It is an organization set up to allow adult volunteers to help children learn as much as they can about any given subject area. It is purposely set up to allow for some flexibility. How could a nation or statewide organization set goals and project areas for the entire country or state? It is the volunteers who do this.

 

My Dc have had countless opportunities with local professionals b/c of their involvement in 4H. Ds has spoken to our county health dept and the county kennel club all b/c professionals who volunteer heard him speak during county presentations one year. He was asked to organize an event at our local animal shelter. Dd has had a ton of opportunities with local dog trainers and breeders who have given of their time freely b/c they see her passion for dogs. She is only 10 and regarded as almost an intern by two local breeders who are beginning to let her help train their puppies.

 

For us its dogs, but over and over I've heard how kids in 4H (in other clubs too) have made many contacts and gained valuable educational opportunities in many subject areas. Like my Dc, their involvement in 4H allows them to form connections through the years. Many of the professionals they work with will end up giving them excellent recommendations for colleges.

 

I also want to point out that the local county 4H is connected with a university which will often offer all sorts of educational seminars, classes, and science labs or activities. Once you are in a club you are notified about them, as are all the clubs and their members.

 

There is no way the local homechool organization could ever offer us all of the opportunities we've found through 4H!

[Paintedlady]

:iagree::iagree::iagree: I can understand why you are finding it confusing, but it isn't really a mess. It is an organization set up to allow adult volunteers to help children learn as much as they can about any given subject area. It is purposely set up to allow for some flexibility. How could a nation or statewide organization set goals and project areas for the entire country or state? It is the volunteers who do this.

 

 

Thanks for the additional information and enoucragement to those of us struggling to understand. I think I get it a bit more now. Looking forward to seeing what opportunities are out there for my kids.

[Random]

I was in 4-H years and years ago. I primarily did horses but I did do a meteorology unit that I learned a lot from. My youngest sister did dog obedience.

 

So, yes there are tons of options. You need to find the right group for you -- some groups are specific (raising cows, riding horses, etc.) while others might have groups with your child's common interests.

 

 

See...this is what I still don't understand. How does one "do" horses? How does one "do" meteorology? or dog obedience? I keep hearing people say they 'do' one subject or another, but I have no idea what that means. :)

 

Does that mean you worked through a series of workbooks (including a log book of time, expenses, and experiences) and then completed a hands-on project related to the workbooks? Or that the child simply taught him or herself about the topic and then shared with group members? Or, is there an adult who knows the subject well, who teaches the children?

 

 

I feel dumb for asking what must be really obvious to everyone around me. ;)

 

If there is only one group in my area, and it is only focused on agriculture, am I just out of luck if we are not an 'agriculture family?'

 

(sorry to hijack!)

[Elfknitter.#]

I tried contacting our local 4-H and the leader never responded. I didn't get much help going to the county level. Since the local group was primarily run through an elementary school, it seemed pretty exclusive. When I did finally talk to someone, it was the wrong time of year as they were winding down (was Spring season.) I gave up then. The activities seemed so neat and things dd would love to try but it was just a PITA trying to just get a hold of a person much less visiting a group to view how it worked. :glare:

[Hoot]

See...this is what I still don't understand. How does one "do" horses? How does one "do" meteorology? or dog obedience? I keep hearing people say they 'do' one subject or another, but I have no idea what that means. :)

 

Does that mean you worked through a series of workbooks (including a log book of time, expenses, and experiences) and then completed a hands-on project related to the workbooks? Or that the child simply taught him or herself about the topic and then shared with group members? Or, is there an adult who knows the subject well, who teaches the children?

 

 

I feel dumb for asking what must be really obvious to everyone around me. ;)

 

If there is only one group in my area, and it is only focused on agriculture, am I just out of luck if we are not an 'agriculture family?'

 

(sorry to hijack!)

 

Don't feel dumb; I was just thinking the same thing. :tongue_smilie:

[Closeacademy]

See...this is what I still don't understand. How does one "do" horses? How does one "do" meteorology? or dog obedience? I keep hearing people say they 'do' one subject or another, but I have no idea what that means. :)

 

Does that mean you worked through a series of workbooks (including a log book of time, expenses, and experiences) and then completed a hands-on project related to the workbooks? Or that the child simply taught him or herself about the topic and then shared with group members? Or, is there an adult who knows the subject well, who teaches the children?

 

 

I feel dumb for asking what must be really obvious to everyone around me. ;)

 

If there is only one group in my area, and it is only focused on agriculture, am I just out of luck if we are not an 'agriculture family?'

 

(sorry to hijack!)

 

There are workbooks that you work through. Like when we did caged critters, the workbook basically consisted of information that we needed to keep track of and type up and forms that needed to be filled out. We had to make a binder that showed how my dd cared for our rabbit including: food, cage, growth, etc. We needed to include pictures as well. Then at the fair all of the children who did/completed this project showed it to the judges. There were 3 levels in this competition and shed picked a champion and reserve champion for each level and then the champions competed against each other until she picked the grand champion and the grand reserve champion. Binders and animals were judged.

 

As for being an "agriculture family," in our area you can rent a livestock animal. You pay and go out and care for you animal on the farm and show it at the fair. A lot of people do smaller animals who live in town: pets, cats, dogs, chickens, ducks, etc.

 

It can be a very fun experience and the kids can get a lot out of it. It's just not an inexpensive activity like you think it might be. A lot of money goes into the projects that win in addition to time.:001_smile:

[kwg]

I am starting to get it! :lol: Thank you for your explanations!

[mama27]

See...this is what I still don't understand. How does one "do" horses? How does one "do" meteorology? or dog obedience? I keep hearing people say they 'do' one subject or another, but I have no idea what that means. :)

 

Does that mean you worked through a series of workbooks (including a log book of time, expenses, and experiences) and then completed a hands-on project related to the workbooks? Or that the child simply taught him or herself about the topic and then shared with group members? Or, is there an adult who knows the subject well, who teaches the children?

 

 

I feel dumb for asking what must be really obvious to everyone around me. ;)

 

If there is only one group in my area, and it is only focused on agriculture, am I just out of luck if we are not an 'agriculture family?'

 

(sorry to hijack!)

 

 

You get a project book which is a workbook with lots of questions. Here are some that you can download for free. Some are complete. Older but complete. Some are samples.

 

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/department_4-h_youth_development

 

If the whole group is doing the book together then they base a lot of trips and talks and whatever on this, say trees. They get a tree expert to talk about trees and answer the questions in the book. If only one family, or one kid in a family is doing that book, the parent will stil arrange for field trips or whatever and everyone else will tag or along or not.

They also have things called "judging" which, from what I gathered, the kid will learn as much as possible about something, say horses, then go to a competition and answer questions about horses.

This is what the 2 different groups my kids were in did. But I could not explain 4H to a person without sayin g all of this, to save my life.

[angela in ohio]

It really depends on where you live. I did 4-H growing up, and then with dc for two years, in Ohio, and we had project books and very formal judging. Now we are in Michigan, and there are no project books, it is all about the final project and the judging is more relaxed. So no matter what, you will need to find out how it works in your state; there is no overall answer (sort of like homeschooling!)

 

Our group is amazing. It is a homeschool group, and the kids do all sorfts of different projects. Our leader is very organized. We tried a school-based group locally, and it was a mess. So you have to try a few until you find a fit sometimes.

 

In every group I/dc have been in, you do a few projects as a group and some on your own.

 

If the only groups available are focused on other things, you can still join up and do projects. The group dynamic is a large part of 4-H, though. The clubs are run by the members themselves, and they can learn a lot about meeting etiquette, etc. In our area, there are a lot of extra opportunities year-round at the county level for leadership clubs, volunteering, etc., too. There is 4-H camp in early summer and the fair in mid-summer (this week!) and the school year is spent on meetings, learning, and volunteering.

Edited July 30, 2012 by angela in ohio

[Tarreymere]

Trying to find out about 4H in my area is like trying to contact someone in the witness protection program. They can't tell you anything, to 'protect the privacy of the members and leaders'. You can't contact any of the groups because of 'privacy concerns'. You can't phone anyone who actually has a group to ask a question and you can't email anyone, because everyone's phone number and email addresses are private. You might be a stalker, you know.

 

You have to actually know something about 4H and you have to know to phone the county extension office (whatever THAT is) and ask for a 4H person. You can talk to that 4H person and let her know what kind of a group you are looking for (again assuming YOU know something about 4H groups) and she is the one who will contact a group she thinks would be a good group for you and then, hopefully the group will contact you in some way. Do not try to actually JOIN 4H. You aren't supposed to actually JOIN, you have to be matched with a group first.

 

The 4H lady at the county extension office (still have no idea what the heck a county extension office is) swears that 4H is about soooo much more than the county fair, but assuming you have hung in this long and that you actually know someone in 4H who is in a group, you find out that 4H is really all about the county fair, centers on the county fair, fundraises for the county fair, schedules their yearly meeting around the county fair, and that groups decide whether or not to take new members depending on the deadlines to register livestock of different kinds into the county fair, even if the prospective new members do NOT have any intentions of ever owning any livestock of any kind, ever.

 

We ended up not joining the group we found (someone knew someone who knew someone in this group) despite being reassured that the group was NOT focused on the county fair and showing animals because apparently they had already had a raffle to raise money for the county fair and we had to pay cash because we were too late to participate in the raffle, and the kids were frantically trying to get other 'requirements' for the year 'out of the way' so they could concentrate on getting ready for the county fair so our kids would be 'behind' unless they did some kind of presentation to the group on the first day they showed up. Oh, and any money for joining had to be turned in immediately or else my kids would not be able to show some kind of animal (forget what one) at the fair (would miss some kind of animal deadline) and oh, don't worry if you don't even own this kind of animal because if you join right NOW you can still buy one of these animals and fill out some kind of book about it so you can enter it in the fair.........This was in the spring, and our county fair is in August.

 

Um, no, we didn't join. We don't want to own livestock since we live in a trailer park and they tend to frown on that. We aren't interested in frantically preparing to enter livestock in the county fair. But 4H is really about soooo much more........yeah. Got it.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Rainefox

[Mallorie]

We just finished our 2nd year with 4H, my dh grew up in it. I'll admit there is a learning curve to it.

 

Our clubs are run out of our local extension office. There are monthly meetings as a club and then you sign up for whatever projects you want to take. The leader for those projects sets up meetings and kids gather and learn about it. Some projects don't have a leader, so you can teach your own kids or outsource it yourself. There are enough clubs in our area that we joined the one who had leaders for what we are interested in. A couple we do ourselves.

 

My kids do things I could not teach them, like robotics. We have a leader who starts the youngers on Lego Mindstorms and then as they are older they make their own robot out of other materials and really get into the programming. I can't do that.

 

They also do things that would be fun as a group, like Foods and arts and crafts. We have club musicals, each local club finds a musical to perform, then there is a night in the fall where they all go to the arts center and perform their musical in competition. One goes to the state fair to perform it. There is also a communication arts festival where the kids have to present how to do something. Some of those go to competition as well.

 

The monthly meetings *seem* boring, but the kids are learning things like Roberts rules of order, the treasurer keeps track of the money, Secretary has to keep records, etc. My son was Reporter this year and he was in charge of taking pictures and writing articles and sending it in to be published in the county newsletter.

 

The County Fair is a highlight for the kids. They have to go before a judge with whatever project they decide to enter and describe what it is and how they made it. They get placed and here they get money, not much, but it's something. Their project is displayed for everyone to see, which they like, and they also enjoy seeing what everyone else is up to, it gives them ideas.

 

Then there is the dreaded record book. Some don't do it, but it's not too bad. You take pictures all year of what they are doing, and the kids have to create a binder of it all, with descriptions, newspaper clippings that they were in, etc.. It's a really good practice of keeping accurate records.

 

The best is when you can get another family to mentor you through the year. They help you along with what's what, and it makes it so much easier. As with any club, some are great and some are not so much.

 

I giggled a bit reading this thread, a lot of the complaints about figuring out how it's done, who to talk to, what groups there are, paperwork to fill out, etc., are the same complaints I hear about homeschooling. ;)

Edited July 30, 2012 by Mallorie

[shanvan]

See...this is what I still don't understand. How does one "do" horses? How does one "do" meteorology? or dog obedience? I keep hearing people say they 'do' one subject or another, but I have no idea what that means. :)

 

Does that mean you worked through a series of workbooks (including a log book of time, expenses, and experiences) and then completed a hands-on project related to the workbooks? Or that the child simply taught him or herself about the topic and then shared with group members? Or, is there an adult who knows the subject well, who teaches the children?

 

 

I feel dumb for asking what must be really obvious to everyone around me. ;)

 

If there is only one group in my area, and it is only focused on agriculture, am I just out of luck if we are not an 'agriculture family?'

 

(sorry to hijack!)

 

Don't feel dumb. I didn't really get it either in the beginning. Our dog club does not have a workbook. I have seen workbooks for various project areas on the 4H website though. Back when I was thinking of starting a writer's group through 4H I looked at their Communication Arts (?) book and decided I'd put my own ideas together instead. And, I'll add here that's part of the beauty of 4H, any type of group you dream up, you can start. All you have to do is go through their training.

 

Our group practices dog obedience, showmanship (showing like you see on the TV dog shows), and agility. The kids practice what the leaders (who are professionals with many years of dog experience) decide needs to be practiced. Many also practice on their own at home too. We only meet 2X a month, so if you don't practice at home you won't make much progress. One of the leaders has arranged half price dog classes at a local training center, so many of our kids are now taking classes too. There are about 6 kids in the group that are getting to be very impressive with their dogs.

 

We use a mostly blank project book to record what happens through the year. Each child completes a page with goals for things they want to achieve. They can write as many goals a they want and they don't all have to be dog related. I think Ds had the goals of running a smoother meeting this year, recruiting new members, and planning several public events, besides all the goals for his dog training.

 

There are also pages for writing a story about your year, recording all events they participated in along with any awards received.

 

As Angela said, 4H is going to look different depending on your area of the country and the volunteers who are running the program. Once you are in a club though, it becomes a wonderful vehicle for homeschooling. For the county fair my Dc can enter all kinds of projects, not just dog related. This year I'm going to use the list of possible entries when I do my school planning. We'll include some of the arts areas and creative writing, plus essays, and maybe a lapbook. They will be judged on them and receive awards. Our judging system is the Danish system. The projects are judged on their own merit, so they are judged against a standard and given ribbons based on how well they measure against that standard they are awarded outstanding, excellent, good, etc.

 

The club does participate in creating a display about their club for the 4H tent. They work together on it.

 

And, of course we have the dog show at the fair too. In our club there is a healthy level of competition, but most of the kids are all happy for one another and very sportsman like.

 

I also wanted to add that the record books have to be examined several times through the year signed by their leaders. They are turned in and judged at the end of the 4H year.

Edited July 30, 2012 by shanvan

[TheAutumnOak]

We just had our 4H Fair this weekend (my boys are still asleep ;))...I will try and answer some things, though it probably differs from state to state...

 

The purpose of 4H is to teach children the skills of public speaking, working in a group, record keeping, organization, and responsibility...I am sure there are other things it is designed to teach, but that is all I can think of off the top of my head (keep in mind I am still VERY tired from the fair)...The different clubs is just the means used to teach the skills...The theory is that children join a club of interest to them...While being apart of that club, you give at least 1 public presentation to your club a year, keep a record book, and attend the club meetings which are purposely done in a business format (which is why there is a president, treasurer, etc.)...There is a fair once a year to showcase what you have learned and worked on over the year...If your project is a certain type of animal such as a horse, goat, etc., then you "show" your animal and you are judged on your knowledge of that animal, the condition of the animal itself, and how well you handle the animal...Some people get very competitive with this I am sure, but others don't...In our county, it motivates the children to give forth some effort during the year, but people don't get crazy competitive over it...

 

My boys are in an animal club...They have rabbits...My overall feelings about 4H has been positive in our experience...My oldest son has become much more responsible and much more confident...He was very afraid to speak in public before and struggles with confidence, but he is overcoming these issues by doing the presentations and competing at the fair...He takes complete care of his rabbit now (it didn't start out that way), and helps his younger brothers take care of theirs...I am happy with them being apart of the club...

 

They also do a certain amount of community service together as a group...

[RootAnn]

Actually, the CA state website has samples of senior record books online and the RB manual and forms as well. (They're trying to transition to all online, but the format stinks, IMHO.)

 

I have a friend who keeps trying to get the rest of us to join 4-H. She brought an example of the record book (see above) to convince me that it would be AWESOME. See, she says, it just allows you to keep a record of stuff you are already doing in one place which will make applying for college so much EASIER!

 

Um, I don't have a problem with recording-keeping, so it would just be more work for me.

 

Noooo, she says, the KID keeps the records. It isn't any more work for YOU. The KID does the book.

 

Um, Yeah, in my house, that wouldn't work. The book would stay empty until the last minute & then the kid would frantically hustle to remember what to put in & hound me for pictures & pester me to find that project they did 11 months ago so they can record it for their book. I don't think so.

 

Anyway, we have "groups" in our area. (My friend is starting up a First Lego League right now.) You don't have to have animals, but most of the kids in our (rural) area do.

 

The way my friend explained it, the adults help the kids with project that the kids are interested in (sewing, electronics, motors, woodworking, cooking, etc.). 4H allows them some structure, recordability, and reward (Fair).

 

For us, I'm already doing the projects with them. 4H would just be more work on top of what I'm already doing. No thanks. But, my friend seems to think that it is worth it for her. (Seeing how many hours she "volunteers" (is required to work) around fair-time makes me even less likely to have my kids join.)

 

Your mileage may vary.

[HappyCrazyMama]

See...this is what I still don't understand. How does one "do" horses? How does one "do" meteorology? or dog obedience? I keep hearing people say they 'do' one subject or another, but I have no idea what that means. :)

 

Does that mean you worked through a series of workbooks (including a log book of time, expenses, and experiences) and then completed a hands-on project related to the workbooks? Or that the child simply taught him or herself about the topic and then shared with group members? Or, is there an adult who knows the subject well, who teaches the children?

 

 

I feel dumb for asking what must be really obvious to everyone around me. ;)

 

If there is only one group in my area, and it is only focused on agriculture, am I just out of luck if we are not an 'agriculture family?'

 

(sorry to hijack!)

 

I was in 4H as a kid, my oldest two were in 4H for dairy goats for 12 years. In regards to the bolded questions the answer is yes.:tongue_smilie:

 

Neither I nor my kids ever did the workbooks but at one point they had them to read. We did do record books (a log book of time, expenses, and experiences).

 

The child will also teach himself usually through research for various project related projects (educational posters, demonstrations, etc.) For example every fair we've attended required an educational poster for every 4Her exhibiting an animal. So for example my dc have done them about hoof trimming, milking, goat breeds, what to feed your rabbit, etc. They do the research on the topic and make the poster. All of our clubs also required an annual demonstration so again they would pick a topic, learn about it and give a 10-20 minute talk/demonstration; these didn't have to be project related. My children did; cookie making, goat milking, history of automobiles, lancing an abscess :001_huh:, etc. They can also enter educational displays at the fairs (think tri-fold board :)) about any topic.

 

And an adult will also at times present information either at a club meeting or perhaps a day clinic of some type relating the projects.

 

So every group/project will have utilize these various ways to one degree or another. It is ran by adult volunteers on the group level, so, well, you know how things ran by adult volunteers can be.:tongue_smilie: The motto of 4H is learn by doing and I think that extends to "doing" 4H.:lol:

 

As far as the agriculture group you would need to call the leader. They may focus on one thing but have other projects ran by other parents under that umbrella.:)

[shanvan]

I have a friend who keeps trying to get the rest of us to join 4-H. She brought an example of the record book (see above) to convince me that it would be AWESOME. See, she says, it just allows you to keep a record of stuff you are already doing in one place which will make applying for college so much EASIER!

 

Um, I don't have a problem with recording-keeping, so it would just be more work for me.

 

Noooo, she says, the KID keeps the records. It isn't any more work for YOU. The KID does the book.

 

Um, Yeah, in my house, that wouldn't work. The book would stay empty until the last minute & then the kid would frantically hustle to remember what to put in & hound me for pictures & pester me to find that project they did 11 months ago so they can record it for their book. I don't think so.

 

Anyway, we have "groups" in our area. (My friend is starting up a First Lego League right now.) You don't have to have animals, but most of the kids in our (rural) area do.

 

The way my friend explained it, the adults help the kids with project that the kids are interested in (sewing, electronics, motors, woodworking, cooking, etc.). 4H allows them some structure, recordability, and reward (Fair).

 

For us, I'm already doing the projects with them. 4H would just be more work on top of what I'm already doing. No thanks. But, my friend seems to think that it is worth it for her. (Seeing how many hours she "volunteers" (is required to work) around fair-time makes me even less likely to have my kids join.)

 

Your mileage may vary.

 

You have completely ignored the leadership opportunities and public speaking aspects of 4H, which imho cannot be equaled at home---of course, the quality of these also varies by region.

 

It sounds like 4H is not a good fit for you. I'm biased b/c we love 4H.:D

 

BTW, my children do their own record books. I sometimes help with printing of pictures. I certainly helped them some when they first started keeping records, but they have gradually assumed the responsibility, and that is part of 4H---the kids learning to take on responsibility. At home there are also areas where Dc can learn to be responsible, but the type of event planning, contacting professionals, scheduling, writing and presenting at events, educating the public that my Ds does could not be accomplished at the same level. The kids who take on leadership roles learn skills far beyond their subject areas.

 

I do not volunteer for the fair at all. Other than taking them to the dog show and to set up their club booth , we attend the fair as a family for fun. You really can choose your level of involvement.

[shanvan]

And an adult will also at times present information either at a club meeting or perhaps a day clinic of some type relating the projects.

 

So every group/project will have utilize these various ways to one degree or another. It is ran by adult volunteers on the group level, so, well, you know how things ran by adult volunteers can be.:tongue_smilie: The motto of 4H is learn by doing and I think that extends to "doing" 4H.:lol:

 

As far as the agriculture group you would need to call the leader. They may focus on one thing but have other projects ran by other parents under that umbrella.:)

 

Yes, this is why you have to visit clubs to see what might be a good fit. The club is going to vary according to the leaders, their level of commitment and expertise, and also according to the president and other officers and their enthusiasm and level of commitment. Once my Ds became president our club became more organized and increased the available opportunities. He's very into public speaking and education, so he arranges as many events that allow for speaking and demonstrating to the community as he possibly can.

 

I forgot to mention that our leaders have had guest speakers talk to members about various aspects of grooming. We've had field trips to animal hospitals, dog shows, breeder facilities, among others. Most recently an AKC judge came to a meeting for a showmanship clinic. She followed up by coming to watch the kids at the county fair, which I thought was very nice. Now she is offering to teach classes to the kids who have a special interest in showmanship.

[Elfknitter.#]

Only it's hard to visit a club when you aren't able to have a group return your call...

[Mallorie]

Just wanted to 2nd the fair part, some families volunteer for everything, some don't do the fair at all. My family has a great time working the eat stand for our 4H fundraiser, which is again good for the kids to work for the benefits we utilize during the year.

 

As far as record books, I held my kids hand quite a bit through the first year, this year, not so much. The idea is to transition them to doing it themselves, which while time consuming for me at the beginning, will pay off once they learn to do their own record keeping.

 

I agree, 4H is not for all families, but for many, it's a great activity.

[Random]

Thank you all so much for the thoughtful and clear explanations!

 

It does sound like an extraordinary opportunity. I think I'll be looking into it some more, locally.

[ktgrok]

:tongue_smilie:

See...this is what I still don't understand. How does one "do" horses? How does one "do" meteorology? or dog obedience? I keep hearing people say they 'do' one subject or another, but I have no idea what that means. :)

 

Does that mean you worked through a series of workbooks (including a log book of time, expenses, and experiences) and then completed a hands-on project related to the workbooks? Or that the child simply taught him or herself about the topic and then shared with group members? Or, is there an adult who knows the subject well, who teaches the children?

 

 

I feel dumb for asking what must be really obvious to everyone around me. ;)

 

If there is only one group in my area, and it is only focused on agriculture, am I just out of luck if we are not an 'agriculture family?'

 

(sorry to hijack!)

 

I may be out of date, but I'll explain what I know based on being in 4-H for many years when I was a kid. You "do" a project by getting the "book" for it. The book lists options for what you an do to complete the project. Think of it like the requirements to get a certain merit badge in scouting. Very similar. So, for a Gardening project the book might have a few options, and you need to choose a certain number of them. When I did my Gardening project I remember I planted radishes in the ground and built a strawberry planter out of a big plastic barrell with my dad. That is the hands on part. But a whole other part of the process is documenting everything in your "award book" (at least, that is what we called them back then). Think of it kind of like a lab report for a science experiment. You had spaces to record, in your very best handwriting, the goal of the project, the materials you used, the outcome, what you learned, etc etc. You would also include photographs of the garden, etc. So you learn about a topic, do a hands on project, and write it up. That would be "doing" gardening. Does that make sense?

 

In the group I was in we did multiple project books each year. We would have one that we all did together, at meetings, usually based on crafts. But we also did books on our own. So I was doing crafts for one "book" at meetings, but at home I worked on my sewing "book". Again, think of it kind of like the process for earning merit badges in scouts. You do some stuff at meetings, but most of the work is done at home.

 

It really is an amazing system, and I really enjoyed it. And those crafts I made I got to display at the fair, which was fun.

 

Oh, and yes, everyone has to do one "presentation". We called them demonstrations in my group, but same thing. It is just a public speaking thing, where you talk about something or demonstrate something. So one year I demonstrated how to make a pinata, one year it was how to make bread or something. Think of those quick 5 minute cooking segments on the Today show, where someone quickly teaches you how to make salsa or whatever.

 

I would love to involve my kids in 4H, but the only clubs we are interested in are pretty far away. Hoping maybe next year.

[Ellie]

Actually, the CA state website has samples of senior record books online and the RB manual and forms as well. (They're trying to transition to all online, but the format stinks, IMHO.)

 

Awards now go up to platinum level (bronze, silver, gold, platinum), plus an emerald star for a year-long community service project. We did use dd's 4-H record book as a major source for college applications and for a first resume, and it was pretty effective.

 

A lot of 4-H clubs do focus on entering things in a fair as a way to demonstrate learning and collect credits for moving up in levels. BUT there are often county-wide 4-H events that provide another way to share what you've learned, and you can enter fairs in adjacent counties or cities. We have a couple of city-driven festivals that include a chance for kids to enter projects/compete.

That's cool. I should check it out, because I cannot find that same information here in Texas. :glare: