A rant: victim blaming/criticizing -- CO shootings

[jewellsmommy]

It's not for others to say what is acceptable for my family. I am angry about the shootings right now. It's a movie and it's entertainment. I adore Batman, I adore Nolan's interpretation of Batman.

 

I'm the one that took an 18 month old to Star Wars I. We took off school for opening day of Terminator 4 (rated R). We happen to like sci-fi movies. To blame the movie itself is ludicrous, there are plenty of other more realistic gun-happy violent movies.

 

My anger is for the families that were fans of a movie series and a super-hero (could we use a little real Batman right now? Justice?...) and ended up as victims. Yes, we could ;).

 

I'm angry for the filmmaker. IMDB took down all the promo stuff they have for Batman very early this morning. I'm sure the film itself won't suffer. I don't know Nolan, but I've read enough to be sure this has to weigh heavy on his heart today, along with the others involved in the film. The last Batman movie was plagued by Heath Ledger's death right before opening. Now this.

 

Don't blame the parents, don't blame the moviegoers. Blame the young man who pulled the trigger.

 

rant over ....

 

EXACTLY.

[unfrumpable.]

but is it a mug shot or his school id pic? (I have seen the pic of him, but the source was not labeled.)

 

I would say he was nuts, but I consider him to have been FAR too methodical. though the norwegian guy was always smiling . . . (can you say creepy?)

 

Hmm.. IDK. I just assumed it was a mug shot. He was very methodical in what he planned out, so I assumed he would be happy, smug, and somewhat cocky about it.

 

ETA: From what I could find on Google, that picture is provided by the school and his mugshot has not yet been released.

Edited July 20, 2012 by cathiasplace

[TranquilMind]

Sorry, I think it is stupid to take a baby to any movie unless it's a kids only showing-especially a movie like the Batman series which is LOUD and can damage baby hearing and it very well could scare the child....disturbing others and having parents not being able to get their money's worth. No one can predict what a baby would do at a theater, so it is best to avoid them alltogether. I stupidly tried it once and never again until my son was 6. You can wait to see a movie if you can't get a sitter.

 

BUT, that does not mean anyone should have been harmed because of this decision. The baby, nor the parents, deserved any of this. NO ONE did. I don't agree with the decision but I do agree they should have the right to view a movie without fear of their lives. It is not their fault it happened. It was time and unforseen occurance and I am sure they would have stayed home if they knew what would happen.

 

 

 

Totally agree. It is stupid to take babies to movies, and so many parents don't even hear their own babies - they tune them out, so that everyone around them gets to suffer through the movie.

 

However, these victims could have as easily been at the grocery store when some psychopathic moron decided to open fire.

 

And gee thanks so much, shooters. Not only have you terrorized and killed people, affecting families forever, you have also ensured that we will all be treated like the criminals you are when WE go to a movie. Get ready for the naked scanners at your local theatre.

 

Idiots.

[SquirrellyMama]

Oh, so your town had fireworks the next day, during the day or early evening when you could have taken them then? for the next couple weeks so you could go when it worked with your child's bedtime? oh, only that one time late at night, once a year. do you *see* the difference?

 

As a pp said some of my kids favorite memories are when I broke the rules to spend some time with them or to do something special with them. Sometimes I let my kids have coffee because we are having fun. Do I do it all the time? No, but I'm sure I will be blasted for it by someone because I broke the rules. Yes, those parents could have gone the next day but I still don't have a problem with it. If they are out every night or frequently with their young child until 2am because they want to be then I would have a problem. Once in awhile isn't going to hurt. This was a crazy situation that could have happened at 2 in the afternoon as well as 2 in the morning.

[mariposa]

I have seen the comments about who would bring young children to a movie, but I haven't felt like any of the ones I've seen were blaming the victims, just needing to talk about it. In the right context, and with the right tone, I think we should let people respond how they need to and try not to blame people for that either. Maybe they are trying to figure out how that wouldn't happen to them - is that really so terrible? Let's not judge them for needing that, if that's the case. I would propose too that some people just say stupid things in these circumstances, some of which are better ignored!

 

It seems like it's touched a nerve with a lot of people who feel like they are being judged for bringing infants to movies or staying out late with their kids, but that's still missing the point. It would be nice if, instead of getting angry and making an issue about how people respond, we COULD keep the focus on praying for the victims of this crime. There are many groups and politicians who will eventually (or have already started to) use this tragedy to score a point about something. Rather than wasting energy arguing about parenting styles in this context, or being angry at people's response to this, WE still have a choice to think about the victims and not respond/participate in the blaming!

 

Sarah

[mommymilkies]

I avoid comments. Really it's like there is an army of trolls online that just go around making ridiculous comments.

 

:iagree:

[SonshineLearner]

The only thing that would have made a difference is if someone had shot the shooter in the head... Or if some wrestler had been able to wrestle him to the ground... Or if the shooter had been on meds making it so his head wasn't wacked out :(

 

Our son could make it through this movie no problem at 9yrs old....

 

I'm pretty sure that lack of guns being worn gives the shooter a sense of security. When you KNOW there are guns all over... even concealed... it would hopefully make you think about shooting. Both of my parents can still shoot well and my dad would have died (or hopefully lived) trying.

 

I grew up in Texas.... and at least when you're there, you know that SOMEONE in the audience has a gun and has probably been target shooting recently.

 

That being said, the guy was/is sick and maybe no amount of fear or uncertainty would have helped... :(

[swellmomma]

I have seen the comments about who would bring young children to a movie, but I haven't felt like any of the ones I've seen were blaming the victims, just needing to talk about it. In the right context, and with the right tone, I think we should let people respond how they need to and try not to blame people for that either. Maybe they are trying to figure out how that wouldn't happen to them - is that really so terrible? Let's not judge them for needing that, if that's the case. I would propose too that some people just say stupid things in these circumstances, some of which are better ignored!

 

It seems like it's touched a nerve with a lot of people who feel like they are being judged for bringing infants to movies or staying out late with their kids, but that's still missing the point. It would be nice if, instead of getting angry and making an issue about how people respond, we COULD keep the focus on praying for the victims of this crime. There are many groups and politicians who will eventually (or have already started to) use this tragedy to score a point about something. Rather than wasting energy arguing about parenting styles in this context, or being angry at people's response to this, WE still have a choice to think about the victims and not respond/participate in the blaming!

 

Sarah

 

The thing is they ARE being judged. When posters are saying they need to grow up, or are putting the kids at risk, or that they lack common sense.

 

Yes the focus should be on the victims as victims. But bringing up what your personal thoughts are about the choices a victim makes blames them for the crime. Especially when spoken to the victim or posted on the articles etc related to the crime. A private conversation among friends about different choices you would make is very different, but people are publicly announcing that they essentially feel the victim is to blame because they made what they feel is a wrong choice. I think the parents of teh children involved are beating themselves up enough they don't need the general public telling them how *we* (general we) are so much better parents then them

[LeslieAnneLevine]

I have seen the comments about who would bring young children to a movie, but I haven't felt like any of the ones I've seen were blaming the victims, just needing to talk about it. In the right context, and with the right tone, I think we should let people respond how they need to and try not to blame people for that either. Maybe they are trying to figure out how that wouldn't happen to them - is that really so terrible?

 

It's terribly insensitive.

In 1984 there was a horrible McDonald's shooting. I was a kid at the time and I don't remember hearing many comments about it, but I could imagine if it happened today people would criticize a parent for taking their child out for fast food. It is unnecessarily judgmental and I don't see how it helps anything to do that.

Edited July 20, 2012 by LeslieAnneLevine

[I.Dup.]

I do admit that I inwardly recoiled a bit at the thought of such young children being out at that hour. I have taken newborns to the movies if dh and I wanted to go on a date, but they are always tucked in the sling nursing and I'm covering their ears the whole time. (we go to a movie maybe 1-2 times a year, if that) so I could put myself into the position of the parents of the 3-month-old.

 

I really think it is inexcusable to have a 6yo out at that hour, at that kind of movie. :glare::(

 

I did not say that publicly on facebook (thankfully, I had tact for once, LOL) but I can share here because we are so open and honest with each other. :D:tongue_smilie:

[CountitallJoy]

To me, it's a matter of having a bit of empathy and compassion for fellow human beings who have just endured a horrific tragedy.

 

At times like these, quite frankly, I could not care less about what *your* opinions are about other people's parenting choices. I don't give two <edit>s about what *you* gave up in order to be a "perfect mother."

 

I find such comments to be in incredibly poor taste, rude, cruel, and unnecessary.

[swellmomma]

To me, it's a matter of having a bit of empathy and compassion for fellow human beings who have just endured a horrific tragedy.

 

At times like these, quite frankly, I could not care less about what *your* opinions are about other people's parenting choices. I don't give two <edit>s about what *you* gave up in order to be a "perfect mother."

 

I find such comments to be in incredibly poor taste, rude, cruel, and unnecessary.

 

exactly!

[mariposa]

I guess that's what I meant - I don't look at comments on public news sites, so maybe that's what OP is talking about (which I do think is really inappropriate). But on a board like this one, I think it's understandable for people to want to discuss it. Stupid, public comments probably should just be ignored!

 

I did not say that publicly on facebook (thankfully, I had tact for once, LOL) but I can share here because we are so open and honest with each other.

[TXMary2]

Hmm.

 

I don't believe in blaming the victims for their physical presence at the scene of a psychopath's chosen location for terror. That's ludicrous.

 

And I don't think it's in very good taste to criticize people who are currently in a crisis, whether their choices had anything to do with it or not.

 

I will certainly hold the private opinion that 6yo children should not be out at midnight watching PG-13 or R-rated movies. I don't think it's old-fashioned to believe that little children should be asleep in bed at that hour and only allowed to watch age-appropriate media during their proper waking hours.

 

I won't dogpile on that other thread because the victims' parenting choices are not the topic, but generally speaking I am quite tired of everyone's parenting choices deserving a rubber stamp of societal approval when some choices are not admirable at all.

 

:iagree::iagree:

[LeslieAnneLevine]

To me, it's a matter of having a bit of empathy and compassion for fellow human beings who have just endured a horrific tragedy.

 

At times like these, quite frankly, I could not care less about what *your* opinions are about other people's parenting choices. I don't give two <edit>s about what *you* gave up in order to be a "perfect mother."

 

I find such comments to be in incredibly poor taste, rude, cruel, and unnecessary.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

eta: I just realized the post above this one has two "I agree" signs. This is coincidental and not an attempt to one-up anyone! lol

[BakersDozen]

I do admit that I inwardly recoiled a bit at the thought of such young children being out at that hour. I have taken newborns to the movies if dh and I wanted to go on a date, but they are always tucked in the sling nursing and I'm covering their ears the whole time. (we go to a movie maybe 1-2 times a year, if that) so I could put myself into the position of the parents of the 3-month-old.

 

I really think it is inexcusable to have a 6yo out at that hour, at that kind of movie. :glare::(

 

I did not say that publicly on facebook (thankfully, I had tact for once, LOL) but I can share here because we are so open and honest with each other.

I also confess that one of my first reactions was just this, however I would never, ever post that reaction (anywhere but here, that is)! I am shocked and horrified for what those people went through, but I did blink a few times upon reading that a 6yo was there (or any other young child, for that matter, not including wee infants). I hope that doesn't make me a horrible person. :( Honestly, I didn't link my thoughts on having a young child at a movie like that with blaming the victims...not at all!

[kewb]

I agree. And you know what? There are worse things than taking a 3 month old to a late-night movie they won't even comprehend, like leaving the baby at home alone. Some people can't win.

 

You could leave the 3 month old home with a babysitter and if you don't have one don't go to the movies at midnight. That aside it is not the appropriate time to be questioning someone's parenting skills. The focus now should be on helping the victims not tar and feathering them.

 

It's basic psychology though--blaming the victim. If you think you can find a reason it happened to someone else and that they brought it on themselves, it makes you feel like you are more in control and it can't happen to you.

 

:iagree: The shooting is a horrible tragedy and it is human nature to try to make sense of the senseless.

[KeepItGoing]

To me, it's a matter of having a bit of empathy and compassion for fellow human beings who have just endured a horrific tragedy....At times like these, quite frankly, I could not care less about what *your* opinions are about other people's parenting choices.

 

I agree with this. It isn't that I think that all parenting choices are okay, or that people's choices should or shouldn't be judged (we're all judged constantly by all sorts of people), but that when I hear of a tragedy like this, what I feel called to ponder is not, "What idiots!" or "What fools!", but "What a tragedy! How sad, that so many people will be saying goodbye to a loved one, or fearing going out in public." And maybe, "Is there any reasonable thing that could have prevented this, or is this just one of the consequences of living in our imperfect world?"

 

(This doesn't mean that those thoughts don't enter my head - just that I try to steer away from them into what I see as a more productive direction.)

 

I wouldn't mind a discussion of whether kids should, say, attend late-night movies - but not in connection with a tragedy, and probably not in the same week. I would also have more sympathy for someone who seemed interested in understanding the reasons behind someone else's thinking, rather than just blasting those who disagree with them. ("It would never occur to me to take kids to a late-night movie, but obviously some people disagree. Why does it seem okay to some people? What am I overlooking?")

Edited July 20, 2012 by KeepItGoing

[I.Dup.]

I also confess that one of my first reactions was just this, however I would never, ever post that reaction (anywhere but here, that is)! I am shocked and horrified for what those people went through, but I did blink a few times upon reading that a 6yo was there (or any other young child, for that matter, not including wee infants). I hope that doesn't make me a horrible person. :( Honestly, I didn't link my thoughts on having a young child at a movie like that with blaming the victims...not at all!

 

:iagree:

[Jennifer3141]

To me, it's a matter of having a bit of empathy and compassion for fellow human beings who have just endured a horrific tragedy.

 

At times like these, quite frankly, I could not care less about what *your* opinions are about other people's parenting choices. I don't give two <edit>s about what *you* gave up in order to be a "perfect mother."

 

I find such comments to be in incredibly poor taste, rude, cruel, and unnecessary.

 

 

:iagree::iagree:

 

And one more thing I have noticed in life about children and odd hours. My DH usually works days but his job requires that he also work nights and he is on a pager every day and every night for certain types of patients. Depending upon the season (we live in a tourist area and we attract a TON of seniors in the summer) and depending upon which hospital DH is working with, we may be up in the middle of the night and sleep the next day. And we often do that as a family so that we can be together as much as we possibly can. It's not a conventional upbringing. We don't do 8:00 bedtimes and we never have. And it really squicks some people out. But my children are happy and healthy and bonded to their daddy like very few children I have seen IRL. And maybe if people would quit trying to die in the middle of the night, we could have a more conventional bedtime! But a lot of freaking people chose 3:00 a.m. to have a heart attack. I think it's very rude but whatever... :lol

To this day, it drives my parents insane that my kids are up past nine and that we don't always have holidays ON the actual holiday.

 

I would probably think twice about bringing a 6 year old to that movie at that time but I'd worry more about how other people are judging us. I probably wouldn't think twice about a 3 month old because as far as my kids were concerned, wherever that boob was - was HOME! As long as they were plugged in, they were content.

 

LOTR came out when my kids were babies and I know I attended the first one while heavily pregnant and I saw the second one with my infant DD - we hit a matinee though weeks after it happened because I HATE crowds and I didn't know how DD would react to a theatre.

 

This crazy schedule was our primary reason for homeschooling. For a country that whines so much about a lack of parental involvement, it's a tad annoying to read stuff like this. Maybe the 6 year old's parents are EMT's, or doctors, or nurses, or night managers at a hotel, or they own a chain of 24 hour gas stations, or even CLERK at 24 hour gas stations. There are tons and tons of legitimate jobs that happen at odd hours. Maybe this was a family thing they had been looking forward to and saving up for weeks or more. Maybe everyone in this family is a Batman freak. As a Star Trek family, we aren't going to judge!!!

Edited July 20, 2012 by Jennifer3141

[FiveOaksAcademy]

I am so angered reading ill-timed comments like, "who would let their child attend a midnight showing?" Or, "what kind of mother would bring a baby to a movie at midnight?"

 

A woman was raped in her apartment near here last week. She was studying in her own home with her window open on a stuffy summer night. I was sickened by the number of critical comments in our papers: "doesn't she know she shouldn't keep her window open at night?" or "why didn't she own a gun if she wants to live alone?"

 

These are people who have been terrorized and traumatized by violent criminals. Save the cold criticism for a later time, please.

 

:iagree: You are 1000% correct!!! That is mind-blowing that people would drop the main issue and question things like that!!

[kristi26]

I am so angered reading ill-timed comments like, "who would let their child attend a midnight showing?" Or, "what kind of mother would bring a baby to a movie at midnight?"

 

A woman was raped in her apartment near here last week. She was studying in her own home with her window open on a stuffy summer night. I was sickened by the number of critical comments in our papers: "doesn't she know she shouldn't keep her window open at night?" or "why didn't she own a gun if she wants to live alone?"

 

These are people who have been terrorized and traumatized by violent criminals. Save the cold criticism for a later time, please.

 

Agreed!

[OH_Homeschooler]

I guess that's what I meant - I don't look at comments on public news sites, so maybe that's what OP is talking about (which I do think is really inappropriate). But on a board like this one, I think it's understandable for people to want to discuss it. Stupid, public comments probably should just be ignored!

 

There were comments here in a thread where someone just wanted to know if the Colorado folks were okay. These comments popped up in the middle of that thread. I thought that was way out of place and uncalled for. At the very least, that person could have started a spinoff thread, like this one.

[OH_Homeschooler]

The only thing that would have made a difference is if someone had shot the shooter in the head... Or if some wrestler had been able to wrestle him to the ground... Or if the shooter had been on meds making it so his head wasn't wacked out :(

 

Our son could make it through this movie no problem at 9yrs old....

 

I'm pretty sure that lack of guns being worn gives the shooter a sense of security. When you KNOW there are guns all over... even concealed... it would hopefully make you think about shooting. Both of my parents can still shoot well and my dad would have died (or hopefully lived) trying.

 

I grew up in Texas.... and at least when you're there, you know that SOMEONE in the audience has a gun and has probably been target shooting recently.

 

That being said, the guy was/is sick and maybe no amount of fear or uncertainty would have helped... :(

 

OK so this just seems to me like more blaming the victims. If only they had guns, this wouldn't have happened.

 

I don't even think what you said is true. So many people in the theater have stated they didn't even think it was a real threat, they thought it was some stunt associated with the movie. So really, someone having a gun probably wouldn't have been able to do much.

[swellmomma]

I do admit that I inwardly recoiled a bit at the thought of such young children being out at that hour. I have taken newborns to the movies if dh and I wanted to go on a date, but they are always tucked in the sling nursing and I'm covering their ears the whole time. (we go to a movie maybe 1-2 times a year, if that) so I could put myself into the position of the parents of the 3-month-old.

 

I really think it is inexcusable to have a 6yo out at that hour, at that kind of movie. :glare::(

 

I did not say that publicly on facebook (thankfully, I had tact for once, LOL) but I can share here because we are so open and honest with each other. :D:tongue_smilie:

 

That is the kind of comment that is judging. The only thing inexcusable about this situation is that that shooter opened fire on these innocent people. There is nothing to excuse when it comes to a parent deciding to take their child to a movie.

[FiveOaksAcademy]

:)

Edited July 23, 2012 by FiveOaksAcademy

[Jennifer3141]

That is the kind of comment that is judging. The only thing inexcusable about this situation is that that shooter opened fire on these innocent people. There is nothing to excuse when it comes to a parent deciding to take their child to a movie.

 

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[OH_Homeschooler]

What's really strange to me is just yesterday, I was reading an old thread here. Someone posted about a friend whose daughter was in a tragic accident. It was the sort of thing that could have been prevented--it happened in the home and involved some game that the kids played on a regular basis. But in that thread, all I read was supportive comment after supportive comment, not a single "Why would she allow her kids to play that game?" It was such a genuine outpouring of support for the mother.

 

Why can't that apply to a situation like this shooting? Is it because this is so public? Is it because we don't "know" the victims? It's so much easier to stand back when something like this happens on the news and judge than when we get to hear the story behind the decisions people make. But these are real people, real parents and kids, and perhaps if they were members here and you actually heard the story from their POV you'd be more sympathetic. Or at least I'd hope.

[NASDAQ]

To me this is a bit like talking about how a baby who was tragically shot wasn't wearing shoes, or was in a dirty outfit. It's such a massive, stunning lack of perspective.

[I.Dup.]

That is the kind of comment that is judging. The only thing inexcusable about this situation is that that shooter opened fire on these innocent people. There is nothing to excuse when it comes to a parent deciding to take their child to a movie.

 

Okay, well you can tell me I'm judging by admitting that, but I already knew that. I was admitting that I did briefly think that. That's why I wouldn't publicly declare something like that (totally not appropriate). How is putting yourself superior in acting like you would never make a rash judgment any different than what you are accusing me of (judging).

 

And of course it is inexcusable for someone to shoot innocent people, that goes without saying. My heart and prayers are already toward the victims, I don't need a lecture on that, thanks.

[I.Dup.]

Isn't this just another face of the "I would not judge people for being less than I am, so I'm better than you because you do." :tongue_smilie:

[ChocolateReignRemix]

As a 7yo child, my father once woke me up at 2:00 a.m. to get up and pack bags/backpacks, etc., for us to leave at 5:00 a.m to go on a surprise family backpacking trip up into the mountains in New Mexico. It was exciting and fun and I didn't get my "full night's sleep." I never looked back and lamented that my father was a bad father for waking me up and having me miss 3 hours of sleep in order to go on that trip. The only thing I know now is that it has always stuck in my memory because it was out of the norm and so exciting!!! Somehow I survived and caught up on my sleep and have a great memory to go with it, basic biology, biorythms and all!!

 

I'm not into taking my young kids to see pg-13 movies, but maybe for that child it was a big exciting thing to go to a midnight showing. Sometimes sleep can be lost, schedules can be thrown off, for fun and out-of-the-ordinary..

 

Getting to see BATMAN at MIDNIGHT with mom/dad/both? That's a trip a lot of kids would remember and treasure for sure.

 

I will admit we let our boys stay up for certain events when small, including a couple of late movie showings.

[Mimm]

I am so angered reading ill-timed comments like, "who would let their child attend a midnight showing?" Or, "what kind of mother would bring a baby to a movie at midnight?"

 

A woman was raped in her apartment near here last week. She was studying in her own home with her window open on a stuffy summer night. I was sickened by the number of critical comments in our papers: "doesn't she know she shouldn't keep her window open at night?" or "why didn't she own a gun if she wants to live alone?"

 

These are people who have been terrorized and traumatized by violent criminals. Save the cold criticism for a later time, please.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[gardenmom5]

I guess that's what I meant - I don't look at comments on public news sites, so maybe that's what OP is talking about (which I do think is really inappropriate). But on a board like this one, I think it's understandable for people to want to discuss it. Stupid, public comments probably should just be ignored!

what's the difference between a public news site that requires a username to post a comment (and most do) and here?

 

I also confess that one of my first reactions was just this, however I would never, ever post that reaction (anywhere but here, that is)! I am shocked and horrified for what those people went through, but I did blink a few times upon reading that a 6yo was there (or any other young child, for that matter, not including wee infants). I hope that doesn't make me a horrible person. :( Honestly, I didn't link my thoughts on having a young child at a movie like that with blaming the victims...not at all!

It wasn't - but some people apparently took it that way.

 

So many people in the theater have stated they didn't even think it was a real threat, they thought it was some stunt associated with the movie. So really, someone having a gun probably wouldn't have been able to do much.

I was in a theater where some troublesome child pulled the fire alarm. :glare: (yes, we know it was a 'tweens prank). because so many movies require a "suspension of disblief" as you are sucked into their storyline, it takes time to change gears back to real life. (that's what end credits are for. ;)). a comic book based movie requires more suspension than most just becasue of it's storyline. when the alarm went off the time I was there for a prank, I initially thought it was part of the movie too. then the ushers showed up and started ushering people through the fire doors.

 

and considering the guy was wearing riot gear, gas mask, and a bullet proof vest - don't know that someone with a cc would have done much.

 

 

As a 7yo child, my father once me up at 2:00 a.m. to get up and pack bags/backpacks, etc., for us to leave at 5:00 a.m to go on a surprise family backpacking trip up into the mountains in New Mexico. It was exciting and fun and I didn't get my "full night's sleep." ..

and that's a special ocassion appropriate for a family. we've done similar, the 4th is a recent one allowing dudeling to stay up late. (we've also done that for midnight star observations). but it's not a violent movie inappropriate for a young child due to a) violence, and b) extremely loud speakers that can damage hearing.

 

What's really strange to me is just yesterday, I was reading an old thread here. Someone posted about a friend whose daughter was in a tragic accident. It was the sort of thing that could have been prevented--it happened in the home and involved some game that the kids played on a regular basis. But in that thread, all I read was supportive comment after supportive comment, not a single "Why would she allow her kids to play that game?" It was such a genuine outpouring of support for the mother.

 

Why can't that apply to a situation like this shooting? Is it because this is so public? Is it because we don't "know" the victims? It's so much easier to stand back when something like this happens on the news and judge than when we get to hear the story behind the decisions people make. But these are real people, real parents and kids, and perhaps if they were members here and you actually heard the story from their POV you'd be more sympathetic. Or at least I'd hope.

maybe because it was a game common to children and sometimes children have even been killed playing on swingsets (I've a friend whose son was strangled on one.). but they are still children's amusements appropriate for children and sometimes tragic things happen.

children at midnight showings that won't get out before 2:30am (after all, the theaters MUST have their "commericals":glare: ) is not common to children.

 

Well you haven't met my 10 year old. Since he was an infant he has had odd sleep habits despite my best efforts.

 

But either way, one night out to a movie isn't the end of the world.

I have met my 2dd - who never much believed in sleep. she managed to irk many of her room mates and other friends by going to bed after them and getting up before them, and still having way more energy than them.

[MrsBasil]

What's really strange to me is just yesterday, I was reading an old thread here. Someone posted about a friend whose daughter was in a tragic accident. It was the sort of thing that could have been prevented--it happened in the home and involved some game that the kids played on a regular basis. But in that thread, all I read was supportive comment after supportive comment, not a single "Why would she allow her kids to play that game?" It was such a genuine outpouring of support for the mother.

 

Why can't that apply to a situation like this shooting? Is it because this is so public? Is it because we don't "know" the victims? It's so much easier to stand back when something like this happens on the news and judge than when we get to hear the story behind the decisions people make. But these are real people, real parents and kids, and perhaps if they were members here and you actually heard the story from their POV you'd be more sympathetic. Or at least I'd hope.

 

I think most people are sympathetic honestly.

 

There was a thread not to long ago about a child accidentally shooting an adult with a gun the adult left loaded near the child. There was lots of questioning about why an adult would leave a gun, particularly a loaded one, where a child could easily get it. There was a of sympathy, but a lot of questions too.

 

That said, I really don't think the majority of comments about the children in the theater were meant to convey that the parents were bad parents, irresponsible, or deserved what happened. I still think there's a lot of people who were caught by surprise to see that there was a child taken to this movie at this time.

[funschooler5]

Some of my kids favorite memories are of those times we "broke" the rules to stay up late. Such as the time at 930 pm I announced jammie ride and we all piled into the car. We drove an hour to a beach and we played on the beach in jammies until 1230-1am and then had an hour long drive home. It was a rare treat and one that the kids still talk about though it was 8 years ago.

 

For all we know that 6 year old is in bed at 7pm like clockwork and this was the first time EVER he was up that late.

 

We can't judge the parents for some madman doing what madmen do. unless they were abusing that baby or 6 yr old they have a right to parent as they see fit whether you like it or not.

 

That'd be like someone opening fire on a homeschool convention and pser's judging the parents for homeschooling. After all to them it is common sense that children be sent to school. Only parents who aren't thinking clearly, or making bad decisions would have their children in such an environment when some psycho appears.

 

:iagree:

 

 

:iagree::iagree:

 

And one more thing I have noticed in life about children and odd hours. My DH usually works days but his job requires that he also work nights and he is on a pager every day and every night for certain types of patients. Depending upon the season (we live in a tourist area and we attract a TON of seniors in the summer) and depending upon which hospital DH is working with, we may be up in the middle of the night and sleep the next day. And we often do that as a family so that we can be together as much as we possibly can. It's not a conventional upbringing. We don't do 8:00 bedtimes and we never have. And it really squicks some people out. But my children are happy and healthy and bonded to their daddy like very few children I have seen IRL. And maybe if people would quit trying to die in the middle of the night, we could have a more conventional bedtime! But a lot of freaking people chose 3:00 a.m. to have a heart attack. I think it's very rude but whatever... :lol

To this day, it drives my parents insane that my kids are up past nine and that we don't always have holidays ON the actual holiday.

 

I would probably think twice about bringing a 6 year old to that movie at that time but I'd worry more about how other people are judging us. I probably wouldn't think twice about a 3 month old because as far as my kids were concerned, wherever that boob was - was HOME! As long as they were plugged in, they were content.

 

LOTR came out when my kids were babies and I know I attended the first one while heavily pregnant and I saw the second one with my infant DD - we hit a matinee though weeks after it happened because I HATE crowds and I didn't know how DD would react to a theatre.

 

This crazy schedule was our primary reason for homeschooling. For a country that whines so much about a lack of parental involvement, it's a tad annoying to read stuff like this. Maybe the 6 year old's parents are EMT's, or doctors, or nurses, or night managers at a hotel, or they own a chain of 24 hour gas stations, or even CLERK at 24 hour gas stations. There are tons and tons of legitimate jobs that happen at odd hours. Maybe this was a family thing they had been looking forward to and saving up for for weeks or more. Maybe everyone in this family is a Batman freak. As a Star Trek family, we aren't going to judge!!!

 

:iagree: Especially with the bolded.

 

We've had an "off" schedule for most of our kids' lives. They stay up late, but they also get up late (9 or 10 am). They get plenty of sleep. They are happy and healthy, and they've spent a lot of quality time with their dad. Why should we be on a "normal" schedule just because that's what other people do? If we did that, we wouldn't be able to have family time in the evenings, or even eat meals at the same time. We homeschool because we have the flexibility to do that.

 

When our oldest two were 8 and 5, we took them to see a midnight showing of Star Wars III. None of us had been to a midnight showing before. It was the most fun I've ever had at the movies (in spite of the movie itself :tongue_smilie:). People were dressed up as Jedis, there was applause when the movie started, and cheers when Yoda makes his first appearance. I don't know how to explain it...it's a whole different experience when you watch a movie in an audience filled with super-fans. Our kids still remember it today. It was a special night out as a family. Funny that people would judge us for that.

 

To me this is a bit like talking about how a baby who was tragically shot wasn't wearing shoes, or was in a dirty outfit. It's such a massive, stunning lack of perspective.

 

:iagree: No kidding.

[funschooler5]

The only thing that would have made a difference is if someone had shot the shooter in the head... Or if some wrestler had been able to wrestle him to the ground... Or if the shooter had been on meds making it so his head wasn't wacked out :(

 

Our son could make it through this movie no problem at 9yrs old....

 

I'm pretty sure that lack of guns being worn gives the shooter a sense of security. When you KNOW there are guns all over... even concealed... it would hopefully make you think about shooting. Both of my parents can still shoot well and my dad would have died (or hopefully lived) trying.

 

I grew up in Texas.... and at least when you're there, you know that SOMEONE in the audience has a gun and has probably been target shooting recently.

 

That being said, the guy was/is sick and maybe no amount of fear or uncertainty would have helped... :(

 

I doubt that would have made a difference in this case. Considering the guy booby-trapped himself with explosives, it sounds like he was ready to die. I don't think he would have been worried about people in the audience shooting back at him.

 

Also, IMO more people shooting at each other in the dark would just make the possibility of getting shot go *up.* not down.

[mariposa]

That said, I really don't think the majority of comments about the children in the theater were meant to convey that the parents were bad parents, irresponsible, or deserved what happened. I still think there's a lot of people who were caught by surprise to see that there was a child taken to this movie at this time.

 

:iagree: And I don't think that those people should be judged. Saying "I'm surprised to hear that there were such young children there." is a world away from "those idiots, what were they thinking, it's their own fault...."

 

And I CERTAINLY haven't heard anybody here saying that. I have heard nothing but sympathy, horror, and shock. And, yes, surprise at the young age of some of the victims. I think it's understandable to assume that a PG-13 movie at midnight would have meant children were unlikely to be in the audience, and to be shocked and saddened to hear that very small children were there and injured. I don't agree that equates with blaming or judging the parents.

[Jennifer3141]

I doubt that would have made a difference in this case. Considering the guy booby-trapped himself with explosives, it sounds like he was ready to die. I don't think he would have been worried about people in the audience shooting back at him.

 

Also, IMO more people shooting at each other in the dark would just make the possibility of getting shot go *up.* not down.

 

 

This entire gun argument makes me laugh. No shooter on the planet has EVER stopped to think, "Hey! Someone might shoot back. I better not do this!"

 

When you get to the point where you are walking into a Batman movie and in your heart and mind is a plan and the ability to carry out a plan to blow 100 people away, you're DONE.

 

They have reached a point but for the grace of whatever, the rest of us will never understand.

 

They don't CARE if you shoot back. Some of them are probably DREAMING of going down in a blaze of glory. It's tragic. It's sick. And all you can hope for in life is that you aren't around when one of us does this.

 

I know plenty of licensed gun owners that I don't want to be trapped in a movie theatre during a shoot out with. And any decent, experienced gun owner would not fire back in a situation like this anyway (in the dark with complete chaos all over).

Edited July 20, 2012 by Jennifer3141

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Hmm.

 

I don't believe in blaming the victims for their physical presence at the scene of a psychopath's chosen location for terror. That's ludicrous.

 

And I don't think it's in very good taste to criticize people who are currently in a crisis, whether their choices had anything to do with it or not.

 

I will certainly hold the private opinion that 6yo children should not be out at midnight watching PG-13 or R-rated movies. I don't think it's old-fashioned to believe that little children should be asleep in bed at that hour and only allowed to watch age-appropriate media during their proper waking hours.

 

I won't dogpile on that other thread because the victims' parenting choices are not the topic, but generally speaking I am quite tired of everyone's parenting choices deserving a rubber stamp of societal approval when some choices are not admirable at all.

:iagree:I am also greatly saddened by this horrible tragedy.

[Denisemomof4]

I am so angered reading ill-timed comments like, "who would let their child attend a midnight showing?" Or, "what kind of mother would bring a baby to a movie at midnight?"

 

A woman was raped in her apartment near here last week. She was studying in her own home with her window open on a stuffy summer night. I was sickened by the number of critical comments in our papers: "doesn't she know she shouldn't keep her window open at night?" or "why didn't she own a gun if she wants to live alone?"

 

These are people who have been terrorized and traumatized by violent criminals. Save the cold criticism for a later time, please.

 

Some people are just MISERABLE people who try to make themselves feel better by criticizing others.:glare:

[Denisemomof4]

As a pp said some of my kids favorite memories are when I broke the rules to spend some time with them or to do something special with them. Sometimes I let my kids have coffee because we are having fun. Do I do it all the time? No, but I'm sure I will be blasted for it by someone because I broke the rules. Yes, those parents could have gone the next day but I still don't have a problem with it. If they are out every night or frequently with their young child until 2am because they want to be then I would have a problem. Once in awhile isn't going to hurt. This was a crazy situation that could have happened at 2 in the afternoon as well as 2 in the morning.

 

:iagree:

 

A 2:00 pm showing would be FUN!!!! A 12:00 am showing is a far more special treat, one that will likely always be remembered. (NOT considering this tragic situation)

 

I have a friend who's dh used to get home from work at 5:00 am. The mom would keep her five kids up until after midnight, often times after 1:00 or even 2:00 so that the family could be on the same schedule, the kids could spend time with their dad, and mom didn't have to spend her days keeping her kids quiet so her dh could sleep. People used to comment on how you'd call at 11:00 and wake them up as if they were a loser, lazy family.:glare: i always thought it such a blessing they were homeschooled and found a schedule that WORKED FOR THEM. who has a right to have an opinion on that?

[gardenmom5]

They don't CARE if you shoot back. ).

uh - I guess you didn't see the video from earlier this week taken from three angles by the security cams at an internet cafe. the two *armed* thugs (they were waving their guns around scaring people) could NOT get out fast enough (and tripped over each other attempting to) when a 71 yo cc started shooting at them.

 

they were arrested when they showed up at the ER claiming to have been shot while out in some field. except there wasn't any brass in the field indicating a firefight.

[justamouse]

Hmm.

 

I don't believe in blaming the victims for their physical presence at the scene of a psychopath's chosen location for terror. That's ludicrous.

 

And I don't think it's in very good taste to criticize people who are currently in a crisis, whether their choices had anything to do with it or not.

 

I will certainly hold the private opinion that 6yo children should not be out at midnight watching PG-13 or R-rated movies. I don't think it's old-fashioned to believe that little children should be asleep in bed at that hour and only allowed to watch age-appropriate media during their proper waking hours.

 

I won't dogpile on that other thread because the victims' parenting choices are not the topic, but generally speaking I am quite tired of everyone's parenting choices deserving a rubber stamp of societal approval when some choices are not admirable at all.

 

:iagree:

[Kathryn]

I don't believe in blaming the victim either. BUT have you read the story of the parents that had the young child and baby with them? The dad somehow put the baby on the floor by the stairs and ran out of the theater, leaving his fiancée, daughter and baby son to fend for themselves. He actually drove away according to his story.

 

http://abcnews.go.com/m/story?id=16821447

[Slartibartfast]

I don't believe in blaming the victim either. BUT have you read the story of the parents that had the young child and baby with them? The dad somehow put the baby on the floor by the stairs and ran out of the theater, leaving his fiancée, daughter and baby son to fend for themselves. He actually drove away according to his story.

 

http://abcnews.go.com/m/story?id=16821447

 

The mom and a 19 year old kid, a *stranger* were shot trying to get those kids out.

Edited July 20, 2012 by Sis

[Caroline]

uh - I guess you didn't see the video from earlier this week taken from three angles by the security cams at an internet cafe. the two *armed* thugs (they were waving their guns around scaring people) could NOT get out fast enough (and tripped over each other attempting to) when a 71 yo cc started shooting at them.

 

they were arrested when they showed up at the ER claiming to have been shot while out in some field. except there wasn't any brass in the field indicating a firefight.

 

uh-The internet cafe thing was an armed robbery. The robbers weren't shooting people. They wanted money. They were not out to kill people. This was a spree shooting where the guy just wanted to kill people. Very different incidents.

[EducationX2]

This crazy schedule was our primary reason for homeschooling. For a country that whines so much about a lack of parental involvement, it's a tad annoying to read stuff like this. Maybe the 6 year old's parents are EMT's, or doctors, or nurses, or night managers at a hotel, or they own a chain of 24 hour gas stations, or even CLERK at 24 hour gas stations. There are tons and tons of legitimate jobs that happen at odd hours. Maybe this was a family thing they had been looking forward to and saving up for weeks or more. Maybe everyone in this family is a Batman freak. As a Star Trek family, we aren't going to judge!!!

 

:iagree::iagree:I couldn't agree more!!! Everyday someone new pops up to lament the state of the American family, *especially* single parent families. Yes, my daughter has a nontraditional schedule. But- I'll tell you this. As a result of her nontraditional schedule- she spends more time with me than many children I know do with both of their parents combined.

(Of course... I get very little sleep! :lol:) If she were to be on a typical schedule, we'd get very little time together, and isn't it more important that she's getting ENOUGH sleep, not necessarily when she's getting that sleep??

[Slartibartfast]

.

 

This crazy schedule was our primary reason for homeschooling. For a country that whines so much about a lack of parental involvement, it's a tad annoying to read stuff like this. Maybe the 6 year old's parents are EMT's, or doctors, or nurses, or night managers at a hotel, or they own a chain of 24 hour gas stations, or even CLERK at 24 hour gas stations. There are tons and tons of legitimate jobs that happen at odd hours. Maybe this was a family thing they had been looking forward to and saving up for weeks or more. Maybe everyone in this family is a Batman freak. As a Star Trek family, we aren't going to judge!!!

 

:iagree::iagree:

 

My husband has a job that often requires long and unsual hours. We often keep odd hours to compensate so the kids can get more time with their dad. I don't see it as a big deal.

[melanie3]

Well said OH_Homeschooler.

I agree. And you know what? There are worse things than taking a 3 month old to a late-night movie they won't even comprehend, like leaving the baby at home alone. Some people can't win.

 

It's basic psychology though--blaming the victim. If you think you can find a reason it happened to someone else and that they brought it on themselves, it makes you feel like you are more in control and it can't happen to you.