If your baby cries at dinner time......

[Guest submarines]

Yeah so what was my baby telling me when he screamed all day long? *sigh*

 

Sorry, this is a major sore point for me. I held my baby as much as humanly possible. He still cried all the time. I was a wreck for about a year. Maybe he was unusual, but all the advice I read said what you are saying and it made that time in my life the most miserable time ever because I stupidly listened to it. It made me want to burn all my baby advice books.

 

My only point being we do not know the individual situation here.

 

Imagine you are miserable or uncomfortable, or simply out of sorts, and you can't verbalise why. You cry a lot, and you're left alone to cry. Now imagine that when you cry someone who loves you holds you. Maybe your problems aren't instantly solved, but doesn't being held become a communication in itself? You were there for your baby when he needed you, even if you couldn't sove every problem for him. That's HUGE. Simply being held is HUGE.

 

Sure it isn't easy (trust me, my first cried a lot, even if held), but what exactly do you regret? :confused:

[justLisa]

Imagine you are miserable or uncomfortable, or simply out of sorts, and you can't verbalise why. You cry a lot, and you're left alone to cry. Now imagine that when you cry someone who loves you holds you. Maybe your problems aren't instantly solved, but doesn't being held become a communication in itself? You were there for your baby when he needed you, even if you couldn't sove every problem for him. That's HUGE. Simply being held is HUGE.

 

Sure it isn't easy (trust me, my first cried a lot, even if held), but what exactly do you regret? :confused:

 

It is not about NOT WANTING to hold and comfort a screaming all day long baby. It's about a mother needing to regroup and keep her cool. Anyone who thinks it is possible to hold a screaming all day baby all day without sometimes needing to walk away for a few minutes has never had a true screaming all day baby.

[Embassy]

I think the OP situation isn't about an all-day screaming baby whose parents need to have a little break.

[Guest submarines]

It is not about NOT WANTING to hold and comfort a screaming all day long baby. It's about a mother needing to regroup and keep her cool. Anyone who thinks it is possible to hold a screaming all day baby all day without sometimes needing to walk away for a few minutes has never had a true screaming all day baby.

 

I'm not disagreeing.

 

What I'm saying is that not holding a crying baby because "he'll cry anyway" is not the same as putting an always crying baby down to take a break and regroup.

Edited June 18, 2012 by sunflowers

[Guest submarines]

I wanted someone to tell me it was ok to let him cry sometimes and that it wasn't about neglect and not giving him what he needed. I'm only one human person. I made myself sick and crazy following advice that didn't work under the circumstances.

 

Back in my day as a baby it was perfectly acceptable to let a baby cry. I don't feel injured and messed up over it. I never felt unloved. I never felt neglected.

 

:grouphug: I see what you mean. I held and wore my babies all the time, and one was a cryer. I held her not because I thought it would stop the crying (even if I hoped for it) but because helding her was still the right thing to do. It is not your fault that holding him didn't produce some kind of an immediate magical result. I do resent what is sometimes implied by the AP community, that if your baby cries, you are not AP enough, or are not doing it right.

 

But he still benefited from being held, and yes, I do get it that one needs a break, and that putting a crying baby to regroup is not neglect.

 

There's research that shows that crying in arms is less stressful for babies than crying alone--no surprise there, really.

 

I get it that you felt betrayed by the AP community, but don't regret holding him as much as you did. :grouphug:

[Mrs Mungo]

It's not what I would do. I think that nearly everything they are doing is really weird. But, I think that of a lot of people. I'm CERTAIN a lot of people think it of me.

 

I will say that even Dr. Sears says it's okay to lay down a crying baby sometimes and take a shower or eat a meal. That's not *necessarily* anti-AP, especially if it is something the mom desperately needs.

 

I do agree, however, that this sounds more Ezzo-ish to me. I agree that my kids were in a highchair eating dinner with the family by this age. But, I can't make everyone do things my way. I've given up on that.;)

Edited June 18, 2012 by Mrs Mungo

[Laura Corin]

We always picked up the baby in that situation. If he carried on crying, then we'd probably eat in stages, one holding the baby while the other ate.

 

Laura

[Mommy_of_4]

At that age all of my kids are sitting in a high chair eating dinner with us. When the baby is done eating, DH or I clean her up and put her in the living room with toys and a sippy cup.

[Walking-Iris]

Another vote for that being really strange. My children at that age were always a part of family dinners/gatherings/whatever. Either in someone's lap, nursing, in a high chair eating or playing and if we are sitting and eating and they were not and didn't want to be in the chair then I'd just let them get down and play and crawl about. Me and my dh have taken turns eating many a time. Even me and my MIL have taken turns with an infant while someone eats. But always with the family, never shunted aside like that. Locking a crying 10 month old away in a pack and play in a closed room so they can eat is wrong IMHO.

[Soror]

It's not what I would do. I think that nearly everything they are doing is really weird. But, I think that of a lot of people. I'm CERTAIN a lot of people think it of me.

 

I will say that even Dr. Sears says it's okay to lay down a crying baby sometimes and take a shower or eat a meal. That's not *necessarily* anti-AP, especially if it is something the mom desperately needs.

 

I do agree, however, that this sounds more Ezzo-ish to me. I agree that my kids were in a highchair eating dinner with the family by this age. But, I can't make everyone do things my way. I've given up on that.;)

 

:iagree: I think everyone needs a break, I had a crying screaming baby. I do agree that sometimes you have to take a break and that AP lit can be really insensitive to this fact imo. However, this sounds more like Ezzo or such to me. Making sure not to let the baby "manipulate" you by crying or such.

[3peasinWa]

Its important for oral development, swallow, avoiding texture defensiveness etc.

 

Here is where I add that my oldest nursed until he was mmff years old (Today show territory, people) and that I weaned no one before age 3 here. I am an advocate of nursing as long as you want. Im not an advocate of delaying the inevitable and Im sure not an advocate of the plain old meanness of the OP's friend/ relative/ neighbor.

 

 

But it is appropriate and important to begin your child on finger food after 6 mos and before 12 mos bc there is no medal for BFing martyrdom AND bc the kid needs more oral experiences. They are primed and ready for them. And if they are not doing the things listed here there may be an issue for which you should seek intervention.

 

http://www.speechlanguagefeeding.com/feeding-milestones-for-children/

 

http://www.speechlanguagefeeding.com/picky-eating-problems-solutions/

 

ITA. I think they're setting up their baby for food issues. I think she needs to be part of the eating time

[LMD]

Friends had a baby that every single day at 5pm he would start crying. For no reason. Didn't want to be held (made him more angry), didn't want to be fed/changed, wasn't cold/sick etc. I was pretty confronted the first time I was around for it - I was about 6 months pregnant with my first - but it taught me a lesson, sometimes babies cry!

 

They are putting the child in a safe room with a toy to play with for 20mins? I wouldn't worry.

[Veritaserum]

We hold the baby if nothing works to keep the baby happy in a high chair.

[Dustybug]

weird. I get letting baby fuss in the highchair a bit, but shutting her in the other room like a barking dog? Why on earth isn't the 10 month old in a high chair at the table with everyone else? A sippy cup and some toys at least, although not offering food seems odd too.

 

:iagree:

 

Exclusive bfing is really not ideal for that long.

 

Its important for oral development, swallow, avoiding texture defensiveness etc.

 

Here is where I add that my oldest nursed until he was mmff years old (Today show territory, people) and that I weaned no one before age 3 here. I am an advocate of nursing as long as you want. Im not an advocate of delaying the inevitable and Im sure not an advocate of the plain old meanness of the OP's friend/ relative/ neighbor.

 

 

But it is appropriate and important to begin your child on finger food after 6 mos and before 12 mos bc there is no medal for BFing martyrdom AND bc the kid needs more oral experiences. They are primed and ready for them. And if they are not doing the things listed here there may be an issue for which you should seek intervention.

 

http://www.speechlanguagefeeding.com/feeding-milestones-for-children/

 

http://www.speechlanguagefeeding.com/picky-eating-problems-solutions/

 

 

This isn't applicable to every baby. There are LOTS of babies who are ebf until 12 months and don't have any issues at all. My youngest wouldn't touch any food until nearly 18 months. What was I supposed to do? Force it down her throat? That's ridiculous. She's nearly 2 now and still only nibbles at her meals. She has no oral issues, etc.

 

That's a broad blanket to throw, I think. Is it unwise to simply avoid offering your baby food before 12 months? Maybe, but some babies simply aren't interested, even when you try and try and try.

[TGHEALTHYMOM]

At 10 months my kids were usually in a high chair at the table with the rest of us, laughing at their siblings as they mash peas into the tray.[/quote

 

:iagree:

[Dustybug]

No it actually is applicable to every baby. Its standard recommendation to avoid feeding and speech issues.

 

Whats not applicable to every baby is to toss around ebf is JUST GREAT AND fiNE at 12 mos. Bc no where in the world is that standard (or medically recommended).

 

If your kid got to 12 mos without interest in food and there was no medical issue I am SUPER glad for you but generally that is an indication of developmental delay.

 

 

Well we will just have to agree to disagree because honestly, there are a whole lot of "standard recommendations" that I think are a load of hooey(and a recommendation is just that, a recommendation, not universal law). :tongue_smilie: Every baby is different. And I don't recall anyone saying that ebf at 12 months was fine for every baby, just those that had done so pointing out that it isn't imperative that all babies must have table food at or by 10 months of age.

Edited June 19, 2012 by Dustybug

[LibraryLover]

I learned to eat one-handed when I was a nursing mom. Being entertained by sibs only works for later offspring. Parents of singles or first-borns don't have the luxury. :) I always liked when they were old enough to sit in the highchair and got busy with bits of finger-foods. That bought some time.

Edited June 20, 2012 by LibraryLover

[Dealea86]

Yes, but lets get real, how much ear piercing screaming and crying can a person reasonably endure? And I could not hold him all day. And once in awhile I did need to eat or go to the bathroom.

 

Even as it tapered off, the one bad time of day was always dinner time. There was something about dinner time.

 

:iagree::iagree:

 

DD was like that. I held her all I could, and when I couldn't take the screaming anymore I would put her in the swing and walk away until I felt more sane. There's a difference between ignoring your baby's cries sometimes when you've tried everything you can and it hasn't worked and just ignoring them altogether.

 

DD, for the first year of her life, cried continuously every time she was in a car seat. Screamed, really. There's only so much I could do about that. Sometimes I had to take her out in the car. Sometimes she had to cry for 20+ minutes while I was driving. I turned up the calm classical music and tried to focus on that rather than her screams. Most of my driving was done through gritted teeth that year. I hated the baby stage. :tongue_smilie:

 

To the OP's question: for the first year of her life, DH and I probably ate a total of 3 meals together. The rest of the time one of us was walking around with her while the other one ate. I don't understand the reasoning behind putting a 10 month old into another room to cry for every family meal. That just doesn't compute for me. But we don't know why they're doing it, so I'm prone to giving them the benefit of the doubt. Hopefully they have a good reason.

[Dealea86]

Well we will just have to agree to disagree because honestly, there are a whole lot of "standard recommendations" that I think are a load of hooey(and a recommendation is just that, a recommendation, not universal law). :tongue_smilie: Every baby is different. And I don't recall anyone saying that ebf at 12 months was fine for every baby, just those that had done so pointing out that it isn't imperative that all babies must have table food at or by 10 months of age.

 

:iagree:

 

We got sent to an OT when DD was about 10 months old because the doctor was worried that she refused all solids. She was worried about a developmental delay or sensory issues or something. The OT evaluated DD and said that she was being stubborn, had no problems, and would eat when she was ready. We kept seeing the OT 'just in case' for another 4 or 5 months. DD didn't eat solids in any real quantities (we're talking more than a tsp a day) until she was 18 months old. She didn't start eating (small, tiny) meals until she was about 2 years old. At three, she is a very good eater and is less picky than most 3-year-olds I know.

 

I have no illusions that what was good for DD would be good for other children. Certainly some children can have issues with eating if they haven't started eating by a year old. But imperative is a very strong word to use for this, imho. :)

[KnitWit]

One of mine had GERD and colic. Her situation didn't even cross my mind when I read the OP. That is a whole different world.

 

I don't even know that I remember her first year of life...I was in a fog.

[Mommee & Baba]

That's not something we did in our home. All our dc were with us, babies or not. We slung our dc and this included during meal times. If we had a fussy baby I'd let dh eat his meal first, while mine got cold..then hand the baby off to him so I could eat my cold meal.:lol:

 

No regrets!

 

For us personally dh & I would feel VERY uncomfortable to have this happen around us. We are AP. We coslept and still do and wore all our kids. We didn't do CIO, but we did let them fuss and talk it out while being slung or bounced on our hip, but not alone. When our babies didn't want to be slung, we'd put them in the highchair with soft books and other toys.

 

Our babies did get to swing in the swing, but never used a crib or playpen of any sort. However there could be some underlying reasoning for them and their parenting decision. All our kids were EBF for 12 months before tablefood was introduced.

Edited June 19, 2012 by mamaofblessings

[Walking-Iris]

That's not something we did in our home. All our dc were with us, babies or not. We slung our dc and this included during meal times. If we had a fussy baby I'd let dh eat his meal first, while mine got cold..then hand the baby off to him so I could eat my cold meal.:lol:

 

No regrets! Except me and my husband took turn with a fussy baby.

 

For us personally dh & I would feel VERY uncomfortable to have this happen around us. We are AP. We coslept and still do and wore all our kids. We didn't do CIO, but we did let them fuss and talk it out while being slung or bounced on our hip, but not alone. When our babies didn't want to be slung, we'd put them in the highchair with soft books and other toys.

 

Our babies did get to swing in the swing, but never used a crib or playpen of any sort. However there could be some underlying reasoning for them and their parenting decision. All our kids were EBF for 12 months before tablefood was introduced.

 

Same here---no crib or playpen or pack and play or exersaucer or jump a roo of any sort. I used the baby bouncy seat to have a safe place to put a baby when I needed a place---a baby playmat on the rug for playtime and tummytime and my kids napped in a cosleeper if they didn't nap on or with me. I personally don't like the look or idea of "baby holding devices" separate from a parent's arms or baby carrier and I tend to think they are a waste of money. I wouldn't ever dream of letting a baby cry alone at any time.

 

Also I EBF all 3 of my kiddos and nursed well into toddlerhood, although I did introduce solids at around 6-7 months. I don't think there's anything wrong with EBF for the first year, it depends on the baby. If a baby was grabbing at food and showing interest and it was denied then maybe I'd raise an eyebrow. BUT I say this because even though my oldest ds was breastfed and introduced solids at 6 months AND ate well until he was about 3 years old, he still has oral, sensory, and food anxiety issues. He's on the spectrum and dx'ed with ocd/anxiety as well and I doubt that how or when he ate solids as an infant would have made any difference.

 

According to a pp's logic he shouldn't have these problems since it was imperative to give him solids at a certain age, which I did. He shouldn't have these feeding issues since he was a great eater but he began to regress. Kids with these types of issues are struggling with something much deeper than when solids were introduced.

[*********]

These are first time parents, right?

 

When they look back 10 years from now, they'll probably cringe with embarrassment at how stupid they were to do this. I know I did some idiotic things that seemed perfectly reasonable at the time. Is there a grandma or grandpa there who could jump in and hold the baby next time?

 

Isn't that the truth. Good grief, I did some stupid stuff.

 

The music minister's wife gave me Babywise to read when I had my first. I didn't know anything about AP. In fact, I didn't know *anything*. For some reason, I just figured that Babywise was telling me HOW one raises a baby correctly. :blush: Everytime I did something that the book didn't support, I felt like I was 'cheating'. Like we didn't do cry it out, and we co-slept. I don't know if that makes sense, lol. I chilled out a bit by the time I had my second. :tongue_smilie:

 

OP, maybe next time you could offer to hold baby? Maybe that way, even if they say no, it'll open up a conversation about why they do what they do. And you can share some ideas, too.

[Joanne]

I put crying babies in my/their sling and go about my business. That is after I've had a baby and there are other family needs.

[justamouse]

Wow. That's not a choice I made, and like Kidshappen, I didn't have a hot meal for years.

 

I don't think my DH could tolerate eating while his kid was crying for food in another room, either, he'd ask me what planet I was raised on. (neither could, I, but if, perhaps I could? He would go get the baby and sit it on his lap while we ate and give me such a stink eye!)

 

Our kids always ate with us. Always.

 

My problem was never dinner-it was preparing dinner. 5 pm was crazy time at my house, and if I couldn't get a tot into a tub to ease through that hour with bubbles and joy, then they'd be in my sling, on my back, while I cooked.

Edited June 19, 2012 by justamouse

[Impish]

*haven't read replies*

 

Before 10 mths, my kids were sitting on my knee, having whatever was on my plate. Heck, Tazzie flat out refused baby food by 9 mths, only wanted what I had.

 

So, yeah, that wouldn't work for me. At all.

 

Boo's 7 mths, and has had mashed potatoes and sweet potatoes off my plate. I don't doubt that he'll do as all his sibs did, and find Mommy's supper far more appetizing than anything on his.

 

Even before they were eating off my plate, we've always popped them in a high chair so they could 'join' us. And if they started to fuss, one of us got up, got the baby, and did whatever needed to be done...granted that 'one' was usually me, but...:lol:

[besroma]

Wow. That's not a choice I made, and like Kidshappen, I didn't have a hot meal for years.

 

Our kids always ate with us. Always.

 

My problem was never dinner-it was preparing dinner. 5 pm was crazy time at my house, and if I couldn't get a tot into a tub to ease through that hour with bubbles and joy, then they'd be in my sling, on my back, while I cooked.

 

Same here. I am perfectly fine taking care of my babies and eating my food lukewarm or cold.

 

I would not let them cry during that time, and would not put them in another room.

 

If it were my friend's or relative's child, I would ask if I could hold him/her.

[kesmom]

She is their 4th baby, not 1st. The other kids are all school aged.

 

The solids issue doesn't concern me that much. I didn't really spoon feed mine much and encouraged self feeding, but I know a lot of people choose cereals/purees. *shrug*

 

It is the crying/isolation that I find "off" especially since it is not naptime/bedtime. I am quite far from an AP purist, just more leaning that direction like I mentioned earlier. I've had to put upset babies down to tend to other needs plenty of times, though I find it rather excrutiating.

[Down_the_Rabbit_Hole]

We have always felt dinner was a family gathering besides eating. All members (unless sick ) sat at the table. Babies either sat in a high chair or on a lap if they were awake. It was family time and a baby is part of the family.

[Cera]

At 10 months my kids were usually in a high chair at the table with the rest of us, laughing at their siblings as they mash peas into the tray.

 

:iagree:

 

and if that wasn't working they were on somebody's lap while we took turns eating or ate around them.

[KatieJ]

Sounds to me like the baby wants to be a part of the meal.

She would be in a high chair working on a sippy cup or some frozen peas or cheerios.

[warneral]

These are first time parents, right?

 

When they look back 10 years from now, they'll probably cringe with embarrassment at how stupid they were to do this. I know I did some idiotic things that seemed perfectly reasonable at the time. Is there a grandma or grandpa there who could jump in and hold the baby next time?

 

agreed

[kesmom]

They are not first time parents - 4th baby.

[warneral]

Isn't that the truth. Good grief, I did some stupid stuff.

 

The music minister's wife gave me Babywise to read when I had my first. I didn't know anything about AP. In fact, I didn't know *anything*. For some reason, I just figured that Babywise was telling me HOW one raises a baby correctly. :blush: Everytime I did something that the book didn't support, I felt like I was 'cheating'. Like we didn't do cry it out, and we co-slept. I don't know if that makes sense, lol. I chilled out a bit by the time I had my second. :tongue_smilie:

 

OP, maybe next time you could offer to hold baby? Maybe that way, even if they say no, it'll open up a conversation about why they do what they do. And you can share some ideas, too.

 

Yeah this was me too. With my first ds. My role model had used babywise and it made logical sense to me as my plan was to continue my engineering career. I did babywise and even remember a cry-it-out instance when he was FAR too young.

 

I was a first time parent and didn't understand that my child was not something to cram into my life and fit it into some of the empty spaces. That was my mindset at that time. When my ds was 10mos old (and still nursing), I quit my engineering job, rearranged my priorities, realized that my life was not just my own anymore and stayed home with my ds. This is when I took up cloth diapering and eventually learned more and more about the AP lifestyle. I took on *some* of that lifestyle and by the time my dd was born, she was nursing on demand, sleeping in my bed and didn't wean until 3 years old. Both of my children are sweet children and I would say my older ds is actually more connected to me and others than my dd who has a more closed personality. I do cringe when I think of how I began my parenting, but it is what it is.

 

AP ended up being easier for *me* and that is what so many people don't realize. Doing things when the baby needs them makes everyone happier because you are not trying to force them into your needs. Babies naturally need their needs to be met. Once I realized this (and was able to separate that children are different than babies - the world shouldn't revolve around a child like it does with a baby), life was better for us all :)

 

ETA that I have nothing against mothers working - I'm just sharing the evolution of my mindset change as a mother.

[warneral]

They are not first time parents - 4th baby.

 

oh nevermind then. I personally had my baby at the high chair with toy/cheerios, etc. Obviously their parenting style is different...

[beaners]

 

It is the crying/isolation that I find "off" especially since it is not naptime/bedtime. I am quite far from an AP purist, just more leaning that direction like I mentioned earlier. I've had to put upset babies down to tend to other needs plenty of times, though I find it rather excrutiating.

 

I've been holding off on posting on this thread, but this brought back up what has been in my head.

 

Especially when I have company, my babies can wake from their naps and still be tired. They might have just woken up, but they really aren't fully rested. I could see knowing this and laying a child back down for his or her own benefit. Maybe that is or isn't the case for these parents, but I would assume they have their own reasons that aren't necessarily terrible and selfish.

[SnowWhite]

In my home, the babies were always fussy at dinner time. I think it was a combination of Mommy being busy getting dinner on the table, the other kids being tired and grouchy, and everyone being hungry.

 

My solution was to have dinner earlier or pre-prepped so that I could tend to baby during the fussy time.

 

Do you have the kind of relationship with the mother that you could gift her with some "melt in your mouth" finger foods for baby? She's likely aching to put things in her mouth.

[Tammi K]

Yeah so what was my baby telling me when he screamed all day long? *sigh*

 

Sorry, this is a major sore point for me. I held my baby as much as humanly possible. He still cried all the time. I was a wreck for about a year. Maybe he was unusual, but all the advice I read said what you are saying and it made that time in my life the most miserable time ever because I stupidly listened to it. It made me want to burn all my baby advice books.

 

My only point being we do not know the individual situation here.

 

We must have had twins separated at birth because you are describing my first born to a T. My husband swore she would NEVER smile. (She's a very pleasant 26 year now.) I lived my life with her screaming in my arms. I used to take her baby seat in the bathroom with me when I showered. She screamed (she ALWAYS screamed) Finally, I started putting her in another room when I showered - just for a 10 minute break.

 

She's a well adjusted, lovely young woman now. I truly believe 10 (or even 20) minutes of crying is going to do any serious harm if it happens only at dinner time. I'm also fairly sure that she will eventually learn to use a fork and spoon just like any civilized person.

 

I agree, we don't know the OP's relative's specifics. Much ado about nothing.