What kind of history do you need most?

[Mrs Mungo]

For the record, I wasn't offended by Audrey. She shoots from the hip. I like Audrey. I just felt the need to defend my previous point a little. :)

 

I actually think there are more *good* grammar stage American history resources than logic. The trouble with logic stage is that the books tend to get heavy handed with the world-view stuff, one way or the other. I think SWB has a pretty balanced view.

[Alte Veste Academy]

For the record, I wasn't offended by Audrey. She shoots from the hip. I like Audrey. I just felt the need to defend my previous point a little. :)

 

Yes, of course. And just to clarify, I would never presume to speak for you.

 

I actually think there are more *good* grammar stage American history resources than logic. The trouble with logic stage is that the books tend to get heavy handed with the world-view stuff, one way or the other. I think SWB has a pretty balanced view.

 

I agree that SWB writes with a balanced perspective. I would also agree with you about grammar stage resources if they included anything past about the space race. :tongue_smilie: After WWII, there's not much to be had for grammar stage. That's a real problem for me. And, again, although there are myriad supplemental resources available, the grammar stage does lack one good spine for American history.

[Mrs Mungo]

I agree that SWB writes with a balanced perspective. I would also agree with you about grammar stage resources if they included anything past about the space race. :tongue_smilie: After WWII, there's not much to be had for grammar stage. That's a real problem for me. And, again, although there are myriad supplemental resources available, the grammar stage does lack one good spine for American history.

 

I guess I am just thinking of our SOTW3 co-op. When I laid out the Age of Revolutions timeline? One of the moms was like, "wow, I never learned it like this or looked at it like this." And I guess I am thinking of the thousands of living books out there for grammar stage on American History. But, sure, that is not a spine. I just don't see anything equal for logic stage-Dear America books are the most prevalent resource by far. :tongue_smilie:

[Walking-Iris]

Just throwing this out there---I would love a 1-2 year grammar stage American History program set up just like SOTW with AGs. Some of us have kids who could care less about Egyptians or Hammurabi but love stories about the colonial period and revolutionary war. ;) It would be nice to have the option to do one or the other or alternate between them.

 

I know what AmHistory I want to use in logic stage, but no clue what world history I'll use. I can't count on my kiddo wanting to go through SOTW again. So for the poll I voted 4 year logic stage world history.

Edited June 19, 2012 by Walking-Iris

[Alte Veste Academy]

I guess I am just thinking of our SOTW3 co-op. When I laid out the Age of Revolutions timeline? One of the moms was like, "wow, I never learned it like this or looked at it like this." And I guess I am thinking of the thousands of living books out there for grammar stage on American History. But, sure, that is not a spine. I just don't see anything equal for logic stage-Dear America books are the most prevalent resource by far. :tongue_smilie:

 

Well, in the interests of full disclosure, I'm not doing 4/4/4 world history, which is why I so badly wanted a grammar stage American history spine. I do 2 American/4 world/2 American/4 world and I'm even reconsidering switching that up to allow for a year of world cultures and geography in there somewhere.

[Audrey]

For the record, I wasn't offended by Audrey. She shoots from the hip. I like Audrey. I just felt the need to defend my previous point a little. :)

 

I actually think there are more *good* grammar stage American history resources than logic. The trouble with logic stage is that the books tend to get heavy handed with the world-view stuff, one way or the other. I think SWB has a pretty balanced view.

 

 

Thanks. And, I do see your point. I'm coming at it more from an angle of symmetry -- keeping the symmetry of the 4-year cycle throughout the stages.

 

What I'd REALLY like is for SWB to skip the logic stage for now and get to work cranking out a 4-year rhetoric history program and have it all finished by next fall. Now THAT would help me a lot. :D

[EKS]

Just throwing this out there---I would love a 1-2 year grammar stage American History program set up just like SOTW with AGs.

 

I agree. There is a huge need for this.

[Melissa in Australia]

Thanks. And, I do see your point. I'm coming at it more from an angle of symmetry -- keeping the symmetry of the 4-year cycle throughout the stages.

 

What I'd REALLY like is for SWB to skip the logic stage for now and get to work cranking out a 4-year rhetoric history program and have it all finished by next fall. Now THAT would help me a lot. :D

 

No no ... I need the next Writing with Skill book by September ... please please please

:001_smile:

[Wildiris]

My vote is for a three year history cycle, but in the last year I'd like to see an emphasis on different forms of government and economic systems. I'd rather have American history integrated into a word view of history, more like another player on the stage of world history than the star of history. I'd also like to see the arts (broad topic!) included. Movements in art are an expression of their time in history.

 

It would be helpful if the history cycle became progressively more demanding and complex as the student matured through three grade levels.

 

Including a time line project would be invaluable.

 

Personally, I like the logic stage K12 history books. The length of chapter and color plates make for a good series. These books are easy to outline and summarize. Can SWB do one better? I hope so.

 

POV matters. Secular is preferable.

[Stellalarella]

Having a logic stage correspondent for world history year 1 and year 2 would be great. STOW 3 and 4 are advanced enough to function as a good springboard for logic stage kids. So, I vote for a 2 year cycle. I would also be likely to purchase and use a 1 year logic stage American history/government book.

 

One thing that I would appreciate, though, is that the entire logic stage series would be written at one reading level.

 

But we all know that however it is written, I would still likely buy it and use it.....I so appreciate the narrative style.

[Mrs Mungo]

Thanks. And, I do see your point. I'm coming at it more from an angle of symmetry -- keeping the symmetry of the 4-year cycle throughout the stages.

 

And I get that. It just wasn't what I wound up doing in the logic stage.

 

What I'd REALLY like is for SWB to skip the logic stage for now and get to work cranking out a 4-year rhetoric history program and have it all finished by next fall. Now THAT would help me a lot. :D

 

The first two books are already done for rhetoric! The first one was particularly good. I will admit that we supplemented *this year* with Middle Ages for Dummies and other books this year. Eldest was really only remembering the stand-outs like the king who was known for his big you-know-what or the adolescent Chinese emperor who was assassinated for being annoying and playing pranks on his court, stuff like that. :tongue_smilie:

 

We all know she just turned in the third manuscript, no pressure Susan, but I do need it for next year. ;) :lol:

[Colleen in NS]

What I'd REALLY like is for SWB to skip the logic stage for now and get to work cranking out a 4-year rhetoric history program and have it all finished by next fall. Now THAT would help me a lot. :D

 

The first two books are already done for rhetoric!

 

Yes - Audrey, did you read the rhetoric-stage history/GB section in the 2009 WTM? It's different than the 2004 ed. It separates history study from GB study. (which, as I'm planning for Grade 9, is something for me to consider - do I want to separate them or integrate them...) But anyway, SWB does lay out a plan for history in the new WTM - even though it doesn't mention HOMW, that one is now published. And as Mrs. Mungo said, the next book just went to the publisher or editor or something...they're interesting reads, too.

[NittanyJen]

I voted for a three-year logic stage history.

 

I would like a flexible year in logic stage to focus on one half year of American History.

 

Not asked, but FYI I have a pair of gifted kids, and my plan for them in rhetoric stage (thinking way ahead here ;) plans are subject to change this far out!) is 2 years of world history, 1 semester each of economics and American Government (required by many college admissions departments; I can cover the history requirement as part of the world history curriculum, I think) and the senior year for an interest led topic chosen by the student-- either something we have not really touched on, or not looked at in enough depth after covering "World History" three times-- one may prefer to look at Tudor England, another may want to trace the World Wars, for example.

[redsquirrel]

I voted for a 4 year logic stage history program. I agree that there are several workable options for just American history. However, I would prefer it if that 4 year cycle was a tad more weighted to American history where appropriate.

[WTMindy]

After an AMAZING 4 years with SOTW I struggled to figure out where to go from there. I went with TOG and have liked it overall, but if I had the option, I would love having something similar to the four years of SOTW, but for the logic stage. Basically SOTW on steroids-that incorporates all of the logic stage activities and great age appropriate projects.

 

And, could you get right on that, please. My twins are 2.5. ;)

[Bang!Zoom!]

I voted 4 year world/logic.

[kalanamak]

 

However, I do think there is a need for a combined history/literature/writing program for high school.

 

Ohhh, I'm hopping ships for this one.

[Audrey]

Yes - Audrey, did you read the rhetoric-stage history/GB section in the 2009 WTM? It's different than the 2004 ed. It separates history study from GB study. (which, as I'm planning for Grade 9, is something for me to consider - do I want to separate them or integrate them...) But anyway, SWB does lay out a plan for history in the new WTM - even though it doesn't mention HOMW, that one is now published. And as Mrs. Mungo said, the next book just went to the publisher or editor or something...they're interesting reads, too.

 

 

I'm still using the original 1999 version, to be honest. :blush: Guess I need to do a little homework!!

[Mom in High Heels]

I vote 4 year world history. IMO, part of the problem with the history that is taught in the US is that it's almost entirely centered on the US, with other countries, who have a much longer history getting mere mentions. Understanding the history of other countries and how it has affected the progress of the world as a whole is important. This isn't to say there shouldn't be US history, because of course we should learn it, but I think dedicating an entire year is a bit much. Perhaps there could be an option to beef up the US history within the world history, by means of an optional supplement.

[Mrs Mungo]

I'm still using the original 1999 version, to be honest. :blush: Guess I need to do a little homework!!

 

Ah, yes, the rhetoric stage is hugely updated in the third edition. I think it is much better.

[go_go_gadget]

I prefer to keep American history integrated until the level of political science-type courses, so I voted for a four-year world history.

[ElaineJ]

I agree with those who would like 3 years of world history and one of American history. That would be GREAT! :001_smile:

Elaine

[Gailmegan]

Out of the options given I voted for four-year world history. But now that I've read responses I agree that a three-year world with a one-year US history would be great too! But then that would mess up the cycle for those doing it with multiple students. Hmmm. so I'm back to my original vote then.

[Annabel Lee]

I voted 3-year logic stgae world history because I like the idea of having one "free" year to study American history or follow interests. If I could have voted for two, I would have added the 1-year American logic stage, to go with the 3-yr. world history. I'd glady take either. I know PPs have stated there are plenty of American logic stage resources, but it's hard to wade through the various slants, opinions, lies by omission, extremes on either side, etc. It would be a breath of fresh air to have one that includes some government/civics written in your balanced, engaging style. For any of these options you've presented, it would be much appreciated if the logic-stage skills we're to incorporate into history study per TWTM were written into the program.

[ereks mom]

I am one who wants an American history spine precisely because I want to keep world history focused on the rest of the world. I do not want to supplement world history with more American. I want the supplements I pull into our world history rotation to enrich our understanding of the rest of the world, to provide the bunny trails that allow us to learn more details about interesting topics we would miss if we were too busy supplementing with additional American history.

 

:iagree:

[KidsHappen]

I used Usborne as a spine for World History grade 1-3 and then DK's Children's Encyclopedia of American History for 4th grade. I then preceded to Kingfisher as a spine for 5-7 but didn't really have a more advanced option for a spine for American History for 8th grade. I would love to see something to fill that hole. It is one of the biggest needs that I see we still have. The other would be chem for grammar and logic stage.

[dsmith]

I would love a 1 year American history followed by 3 year World history.

[Mississippi Mama]

I see holes across the logic stage, for sure. I have a rising, moderately gifted sixth grader and have struggled with what to do for him. I voted a four year logic stage world history, but would be just as happy with a three year world history and one year of American for late logic or HS. Please, oh please, SWB?!!! Would LOVE to have one from you! Too late for DS11 (who is going to do Omnibus I), but I have two more coming behind him. We came by close to doing history as laid out in the WTM for DS11, but I need something more structured, as my younger two are special needs and get me off track easily. We LOVED SOTW and are so sad it is over!

 

So glad you are thinking about this!

 

I agree!!!Please!!!!

[ChrisOR]

I am in the middle of planning 6th-8th grade for my oldest and 4th-8th for my second.

 

I was just going to follow your advice in the WTM book for logic stage history, but in lieu of the DK/Usborne/Kingfisher encyclopedia options I thought I could have them read SOTW to themselves (since it is a read-aloud for the grammar stage). But then that idea confused me when it came to the outlining assignments. Maybe those colorful encyclopedias work better for that.

 

So yes, a logic stage curriculum would be very helpful to clear things up for me!

[Amber in AUS]

My vote is for 4y world history. Being an Australian I have no interest in spending significant time of American history.

[ELITEANDLOVINGIT]

I personally feel like following a geographical map of history is the best. In college I remember seeing my first geographical history map and table which led to the purchase and study of a geographical dictionary.

 

I would much rather know the world; America is small and new, so not a lot to cover, unless there is an extreme interest. Of course, that could be said for every country and I find them all fascinating.

 

On the other hand....

 

If you asked my daughter (10) she would say start with the big bang and move forward...I haven't gotten her to stretch beyond what might have happened before the big bang - (no offense to the New Earth families).

 

She would also tell you that she HATES history, wars and all the talk about killing people, slavery and the other horrible things she has to learn. As a pacifist she would provide rhetoric to stave off one more violent lesson.

 

:lurk5:

[precious4b]

I think American History is very important but I also have a huge appreciation for World History. I'm using Mystery of History because as a christian I want my children to have a Bible integrated view of World History and how they took place at the same time. I went to public school and didn't have the opportunity to see that perspective until I was an adult :)

[Susan Wise Bauer]

Folks, thanks so much for the feedback. I'm going to unsticky the thread now so it doesn't clutter up the top of the board forever, but feel free to keep on chiming in.

 

SWB

 

P.S. Don't worry, the writing program is still a first priority!

[Carrie12345]

 

P.S. Don't worry, the writing program is still a first priority!

 

Thank goodness! :D

I want the history, but I NEED the writing!

[Cinder]

Well, let me say what I did with my two younger kids, maybe that will help?it might particularly help those with youngers? I folded my younger kids into history as went. So, in fifth and sixth? I redid whatever SOTW they had done in first and second (because they really did not remember much of it by then), adding tests, timelines, higher lever reading, etc. In seventh I did a sort of year-long world history survey and then in eighth did American history.

 

This is similar to my experience. I would love a 2-year world history.

[Oakblossoms]

I would love a 1 year American History. We stretched SOTW out through elementary. I have allowed bunny trails for my kids. Then we just pick up in SOTW where we left off. When we got to Vol. 4, we added our own American History to it. I find my logic stage kids to be interested in their country more and willing to go more in depth than just cowboys.

[Chris in VA]

It would be a kindness if you could organize 4 years worth of logic stage primary sources for us! $40 for each Jackdaw is a LOT.

If you could do an AG-type, logic stage activity supplement (could be thin, bc they are doing so much writing), that would be neat, too!

 

BTW, are you still doing the Teaching Company gig? When will that be available, approx? :D

[Melissa in Australia]

Thank goodness! :D

I want the history, but I NEED the writing!

:iagree::D

[Colleen in SEVA]

Just my humble opinion... but I think there are already many possibilities for the options given in the poll. Sure, none of them are perfect, but there are several spines to choose from.

 

What I would like to see, that I don't believe exists, is a logic stage history program that is organized geographically. I would like to spend an entire semester in one area of the world, focusing on the history, the literature, how the peoples of that area have changed over the centuries, and what it is like to live there today (the religions, the economy, the food, the priorities). This would be a 3 year program, with the world divided up into 6 general areas. This would be geared for the logic stage, AFTER a kid has already been exposed to a chronological study of history and BEFORE high school. I have a spreadsheet that someone posted many years ago that lists the SOTW chapters by region, so those could be re-read during the study. It would be written to the student, research focused, and would have a weekly list of suggested rabbit trails to choose from.

 

-OR-

 

Something that would layer over SOTW that would make it more suitable for older students. Most homeschoolers are teaching many grades and trying to teach history all together. I know the encyclopedia page numbers are listed in the AG, but I would love something with a little more hand holding on how to make it more challenging for middle & high school ages, ideally written directly to the student. While I love the idea of Tapestry of Grace, it just isn't a good fit for many families.