Dear Person With a Screaming Toddler...

[cottonmama]

Yes. It really is. Periodic small outbursts are as distracting as one loud one. Maybe more so because you tense up, waiting for the next one. People have different levels of tolerance. You are blessed with a high level of tolerance for distraction. Honestly, after the first 30-60 minutes of even intermittent outbursts the distraction and adrenalin spikes may have let me shaky and close to tears.

 

High level of tolerance for distraction? Um, no not me. :leaving: :D I get very stressed during church because, believe it or not (with me being the "bad guy" on this post :tongue_smilie:) I am very concerned about whether or not my child is disrupting someone. I've had sweet old ladies tell me not to take my kid out so quickly when she starts fussing just a little bit.

 

I am blessed with a high level of mercy for people who don't get to tell their side of the story. I like to assume they have at least as good a story as the person whose side I got to hear.

 

And I really dislike hearing people insult children (and their parents) so viciously...

[radiobrain]

I would also like to say this... as a general statement.

 

First of all, this is a web forum. Posts sound one way when you type them, and 13 different ways to those who read them. This is a pretty diverse board. One person's vision of light and happiness is another one's nightmare. :chillpill:

 

I would also like to say this.... I can barely go to any events involving other people. Why? Because I am particularly sensitive to other people around me, to the point where I barely move or breathe. Where I get upset becuase a person 5 rows up at the theatre whispers to their friend. It bugs me so much, that I don't want to bother other people...even though intellectually I know that most people don't notice the things that bother me. I can't control it. It makes me a wreck, and drives my husband bonkers. So what do I do is....I don't go to many things, as I cannot lose myself in it. I am always too aware. So for a person like me, this would have been intolerable to the point where I might have had a full blown anxiety attack. Now, that being said... would I expect someone who doesn't know me to cater to my particular "issue" in a group situation, of course not. But to subject normal people to 3 hours of a kid screaming for juice is flat out wrong, and I have no problem with someone saying whatever they want about that child and parent. I can't believe that the kid didn't give up after that long. ;)

[Impish]

There are times when a child's needs come before anything else.

There are times and places where the public's needs come before you or your child's.

 

This was both. The child's needs needed to be addressed privately and quietly. If you want to train your child to wait and not get juice whenever he or she screams for it, a public setting is not the place to do the training. If your own desires to watch a child or a performance or an older child's desires to have you there is thwarted, then I'm sorry but that sometimes is the price of having a little one. I sympathize. It isn't fun to have to go out and take care of those things. But thoughtful adults do what needs to be done.

:iagree:

There are also many people in the world who selfish, don't care how their actions affect others, and think that just because they have children they get a free pass to behave rudely.

:iagree:

 

Hideous - adj.

 

1. Ugly or disgusting to look at. I doubt that the OP was bothered by how the child looked.

 

2. extremely unpleasant. I don't know about you, but I find listening to a child scream to be extremely unpleasant. It doesn't mean that I want to abuse the child or am a child hater in general or a hater of that child in particular.

:iagree:

[Juniper]

 

So how's this for honest? I think that people should be considerate of others when attending a performance (jawm). And I am really irked that an inconsiderate person kept me from enjoying a performance that my daughter worked very hard for (jawm).

This I completely understand!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And I'm feeling defensive because folks here have jumped on me for venting about such an obvious lack of manners! (jawm).

 

I am sorry if I contributed to you feeling that way. I missed at first that this was just a VENT and was really taken aback at the tone in the OP. ;)

[5LittleMonkeys]

 

And I really dislike hearing people insult children (and their parents) so viciously...

 

Vicious? :confused: I thought "obnoxious brat" was fairly mild. If you're going to hang out on the GB a lot I'm afraid you might get upset fairly often.

[radiobrain]

Disclaimer: (which should have been stated in the beginning): Yes, I was in a jawm mood when I posted the original post. I guess I believe that people should show respect and courtesy to other members of an audience. And I know that I should realize that some people have never been taught basic manners. I am quite distraught that my daughter's only performance this season (solos and duets are only programmed on one of the three recitals) was completely ruined for me because of my proximity to a very rude person. And this was a dance that dd's teacher had blown off quite a few lessons for, and she was nervous enough about not having enough practice time, without adding the stress of not being able to concentrate because of a squalling kid. Actually, "juice, juice" was quite a topic of conversation backstage among the dancers, according to dd.

 

So how's this for honest? I think that people should be considerate of others when attending a performance (jawm). And I am really irked that an inconsiderate person kept me from enjoying a performance that my daughter worked very hard for (jawm). And I'm feeling defensive because folks here have jumped on me for venting about such an obvious lack of manners! (jawm).

 

:grouphug:

 

I want you to know that there are those here who totally agree with you and your way of expressing it. I wish that this person hadn't ruined the evening (for obviously a lot of people) an I wish that people here wouldn't jump to the defensive of a person who 1. isn't here, 2. doesn't really deserve a defense, while jumping on you who was 1. a victim of this rudeness, 2. actually "here."

 

Which is ruder? Just curious. I know what I think.

[radiobrain]

Vicious? :confused: I thought "obnoxious brat" was fairly mild. If you're going to hang out on the GB a lot I'm afraid you might get upset fairly often.

 

:smilielol5:

[5LittleMonkeys]

:grouphug:

 

I want you to know that there are those here who totally agree with you and your way of expressing it. I wish that this person hadn't ruined the evening (for obviously a lot of people) an I wish that people here wouldn't jump to the defensive of a person who 1. isn't here, 2. doesn't really deserve a defense, while jumping on you who was 1. a victim of this rudeness, 2. actually "here."

 

Which is ruder? Just curious. I know what I think.

 

:iagree:

[Barb_]

:grouphug:

 

I want you to know that there are those here who totally agree with you and your way of expressing it. I wish that this person hadn't ruined the evening (for obviously a lot of people) an I wish that people here wouldn't jump to the defensive of a person who 1. isn't here, 2. doesn't really deserve a defense, while jumping on you who was 1. a victim of this rudeness, 2. actually "here."

 

:iagree: Pretty much this. Unless the OP completely fabricated the entire story, there is no scenario, even to a lesser degree than described, that I would think excusable.

Edited June 17, 2012 by Barb F. PA in AZ

[cottonmama]

Disclaimer: (which should have been stated in the beginning): Yes, I was in a jawm mood when I posted the original post. I guess I believe that people should show respect and courtesy to other members of an audience. And I know that I should realize that some people have never been taught basic manners. I am quite distraught that my daughter's only performance this season (solos and duets are only programmed on one of the three recitals) was completely ruined for me because of my proximity to a very rude person. And this was a dance that dd's teacher had blown off quite a few lessons for, and she was nervous enough about not having enough practice time, without adding the stress of not being able to concentrate because of a squalling kid. Actually, "juice, juice" was quite a topic of conversation backstage among the dancers, according to dd.

 

So how's this for honest? I think that people should be considerate of others when attending a performance (jawm). And I am really irked that an inconsiderate person kept me from enjoying a performance that my daughter worked very hard for (jawm). And I'm feeling defensive because folks here have jumped on me for venting about such an obvious lack of manners! (jawm).

 

...:iagree: with all of your jawm statements.... :D

 

I think I responded the way I did because I take my toddler (and my 3yo) to public things like this (well, church, which is different) twice a week and I struggle not to be That Mom like you described. So I have a lot of compassion for her, because it's exhausting constantly having to decide "in or out?" and sometimes a child still disrupts.

 

But anyway, like I said, :iagree: that it wasn't fair for your dd's performance to be ruined that way for you.

[Juniper]

Vicious? :confused: I thought "obnoxious brat" was fairly mild. If you're going to hang out on the GB a lot I'm afraid you might get upset fairly often.

Interesting. I hang out here a lot and I hang with a pretty liberal crowd irl, but the op was very upsetting to me. Had those same words been directed towards an adult, no problem. For me, it was the issue of directing them at a child. A child/toddler doesn't scream for 3 hours because they are an obnoxious brat.

[Barb_]

I think I responded the way I did because I take my toddler (and my 3yo) to public things like this (well, church, which is different) twice a week and I struggle not to be That Mom like you described. So I have a lot of compassion for her, because it's exhausting constantly having to decide "in or out?" and sometimes a child still disrupts.

 

 

:grouphug: It isn't easy. Maybe a "three strikes in 15 minutes and we're done" policy?

[Barb_]

A child/toddler doesn't scream for 3 hours because they are an obnoxious brat.

 

:tongue_smilie: I'm having trouble thinking of another reason if the answer is, "juice."

[sparrow]

...:iagree: with all of your jawm statements.... :D

 

I think I responded the way I did because I take my toddler (and my 3yo) to public things like this (well, church, which is different) twice a week and I struggle not to be That Mom like you described. So I have a lot of compassion for her, because it's exhausting constantly having to decide "in or out?" and sometimes a child still disrupts.

 

But anyway, like I said, :iagree: that it wasn't fair for your dd's performance to be ruined that way for you.

 

I had a screamer. The answer is always "out". She's an adorable, pleasant member of society now :D, but I paid for many a performance, ticket, etc. that I missed because I had a girl that was tired or fearful and screeching when the lights went down, when the music came on, and when the man behind her laughed. At the first utterance, out we went.

[ktgrok]

:grouphug: It isn't easy. Maybe a "three strikes in 15 minutes and we're done" policy?

 

But in the case of a recital, does that mean the child in the recital has no parent to watch her, after practicing all year?

[radiobrain]

...:iagree: with all of your jawm statements.... :D

 

I think I responded the way I did because I take my toddler (and my 3yo) to public things like this (well, church, which is different) twice a week and I struggle not to be That Mom like you described. So I have a lot of compassion for her, because it's exhausting constantly having to decide "in or out?" and sometimes a child still disrupts.

 

.

 

But see this is sort of where I was going with my rambling statement about my sensitivity... you have a low threshold. You are closer to my way of being than the lady with the kid screaming. You are projecting your worry onto this lady, thinking about what you would do in the situation. She obviously didn't think at all, so stop trying to put yourself in her shoes. ;) She was thoughtless, and regardless of any number of reasons she may have had for staying in that theatre.....she lost all arguments in her favor after a max. of 20 min, IMHO. You know you would never have done that....so stop worrying about it. NO ONE would say that about you or your kids.

 

This isn't about you. Or me. I, for one, am sooooooo glad I wasn't there. Who knows what I would've done.:D

[5LittleMonkeys]

A child/toddler doesn't scream for 3 hours because they are an obnoxious brat.

 

:confused: Odd, I thought it was always the obnoxious brats that DO scream for 3 hours. :tongue_smilie: KIDDING! Don't start flaming me!

[radiobrain]

But in the case of a recital, does that mean the child in the recital has no parent to watch her, after practicing all year?

 

we don't even know if it was a parent. We know nothing. Yes, a parent and child should be able to watch... but that parent should have either hired a baby sitter, looked at the program and known when their kid was on and stayed near the back, or given the kid some juice and fought that battle another day. I would rather have had my mom miss the show than be backstage knowing that it was my little brother who was "juice" boy. Now there is a horrible thought. I am even madder at this mom now that I think if it.

 

BTW, I really need to get a life on a Saturday night. :D

[BigMamaBird]

I'm actually sitting at home right now while Dh is out at his cousin's outdoor wedding. It's 90+ degrees out and we were going to have to take our 4 month old. But here I sit at home in the A/C because he would have been a sweating, miserable, obnoxious, screaming mess. Sure, I wanted to celebrate with this cousin who has had a very rough life and is finally finding happiness. I wanted to spend time with my cousin who is finally pregnant after 7 years of trying. I wanted to do the Chicken Dance. I wanted to eat Outback catered food. But my baby's health and happiness and the rights of the other folks to enjoy their day comes first. That's what a responsible parent does. Sometimes, you miss out. Tough luck.

[5LittleMonkeys]

But in the case of a recital, does that mean the child in the recital has no parent to watch her, after practicing all year?

 

Unfortunately, yes. As a responsible parent you hire a babysitter, bring another family member or friend with you to take your screaming child out or to video tape for you.

[TCB]

But in the case of a recital, does that mean the child in the recital has no parent to watch her, after practicing all year?

 

 

Surely she could have come in for her daughter's numbers and gone out for the others. Most of these things have a program so you can tell when your child is going to dance. I reckon the mother was just used to tuning it out and ignoring the child. I would feel really upset at having my dd's performance spoiled like that too. :grouphug:

[Impish]

But in the case of a recital, does that mean the child in the recital has no parent to watch her, after practicing all year?

Possibly. That's what happens when you have younger sibs, and for whatever reason, no sitter.

 

Sorry, but one family shouldn't have the power to disrupt an entire auditorium. All the other kids, and all their families deserved to be able to watch and enjoy their hard work after practicing all year.

 

Everyone else shouldn't have to pay the price.

[Impish]

I'd also suggest that being the older sib of the screamer would be completely humiliating, and if given the choice, the sib would have preferred Mom take him/her out, rather than make such a disruptive spectacle.

[JennyB]

Maybe you could suggest that they implement a no children under ___ rule. I have been to several conventions, recitals, classes that this was a rule. Then it is known up front and it doesn't have to be a problem. That would have been miserable. Thankfully my older two are boys and don't have any problems missing functions to walk around with toddlers. :grouphug:

[TranquilMind]

BLeh and YUCK. NO toddler deserves to be called a hideous obnoxious brat. What would you call an adult capable of calling a toddler that? I have a few words in mind....but *I* refrain from actually using that kind of derrogetory language toward others. It sounds disguisting. I can see calling the kid a few choice things, but that is just a little much.

 

Oh surely you have vented to others, saying things like this when you were angry? If not, you are a saint and we should emulate you.

 

I've done it. I've also had the kid throwing the fit, but at least I had enough sense to know that if it is MY kid, then I am the one who is to be inconvenienced by not seeing what I might want to see, not everyone around me.

[Guest submarines]

...the OP sure described it with conviction, but she lost credibility with me when she called the child hideous. :glare: So I give the kid and the parents the benefit of the doubt... maybe this was more of a grey area than the OP let on. When it's grey area, you do the best you can.

 

:iagree:

[Impish]

Oh surely you have vented to others, saying things like this when you were angry? If not, you are a saint and we should emulate you.

 

I've done it. I've also had the kid throwing the fit, but at least I had enough sense to know that if it is MY kid, then I am the one who is to be inconvenienced by not seeing what I might want to see, not everyone around me.

Bingo.

[cdrumm4448]

I'm guessing she didn't leave because her daughter would be heartbroken to have mom miss her recital.

 

I imagine she would also be heartbroken if a dancer fell off the stage or otherwise hurt themselves due to the screaming distraction.

 

And, my dd's dance recital was just held. It was 3 1/2 hours long.

 

 

ETA: Our studio owner would never have tolerated a three hour long distraction. It is very dangerous for the dancers, and she doesn't even want anyone walking silently up and down the aisles during a number.

Edited June 17, 2012 by cdrumm4448

[clarkacademy]

1) Perhaps the parents were wrong, but words like hideous and obnoxious (not your words, of course) have no place in a mature complaint about something like this. That is why this thread is already getting emotional....

 

 

How does it make it okay to call the child hideous behind their back?[/QUOTE]

 

 

Sticks and stones and all that :) If this is the worse thing anyone said about that child at that performance then that kid is lucky. I know quite a few people who would have publicly called the mom out and told her to shut her ####ing kid up.

[Guest submarines]

Oh surely you have vented to others, saying things like this when you were angry? If not, you are a saint and we should emulate you.

 

I've done it. I've also had the kid throwing the fit, but at least I had enough sense to know that if it is MY kid, then I am the one who is to be inconvenienced by not seeing what I might want to see, not everyone around me.

 

I've vented plenty, and I'm not a saint, but I can't bring myself to call a child names. I wouldn't have a problem if the OP called the parent hideous--this is the kind of venting that I can relate to. The child is not to blame.

 

The child screamed for the entire 3 hours, non-stop? Really?

[ssavings]

The idea of a child screaming for 3 hours without stopping makes me want to cry. Poor baby, I find that to be heartbreaking. And, honestly, even my 5 year old can't go 3 hours without a drink - poor child might have been really thirsty.

[Dealea86]

Hugs to cottonmama because I know her IRL, and my child is even more of a disruption than hers in church. ;) My child is the one that disrupts the congregation during the Lord's Supper even after we've taken her out - closed doors are no match for her screams. :glare: I hardly ever hear a peep out of Cottonmama's children, and they sit on the pew in front of us.

 

Honestly, I can see both sides. I am very, very frequently That Mom, despite my best efforts. I have immense sympathy for moms who are doing their best and still have to deal with this. I can't count the number of times I've left the store and cried the whole drive home (while trying to ignore the screams in the backseat). I'm very familiar with dirty looks from strangers... and because I know my situation and how hard I try to minimize my daughter's tantrums in public for the sake of everyone else, I naturally have great sympathy for the mom who can't tell her side of the story.

 

It's just so hard to know what the mom's situation was. Maybe dad wasn't in the picture and the babysitter cancelled at the last minute. Maybe mom had a broken foot and was on crutches, so removing the child would have been very difficult and possibly more disruptive. Or maybe - since many people have said that there usually are people who would have asked such a mom to leave - the situation wasn't quite as bad as the OP made it sound.

 

But maybe she was just a selfish mom who never disciplines her child and who was going to sit through her daughter's recital no matter what anyone else thought. That's horrible, and if that's the case I hope the sibling of the screamer (or anyone, really) is able to get through to her mother about how irresponsible and disrespectful she was being. I have no sympathy for parents who just let their children behave badly.

 

But no matter what the reality is, I feel bad for the OP who had her daughter's recital ruined. :grouphug:

Edited June 17, 2012 by Dealea86

[Audrey]

You know what? I'd understand if they remained in the auditorium for one or two or even three numbers (some of the kids are required to do multiple routines.) But not every 3-4 minutes for the entire show. You want to see your own kid, and their sibling wails through their number? Fine by me. But I want to see my child dance, too. After all, she (and all of the other dancers and parents who were distracted by this totally inconsiderate woman) worked very hard on these routines!

 

And no, my child as never screamed "juice, gimme juice" for the entirety of a performance. Has she been to concerts and recitals where she became cranky? Yep. Did I take her out of the auditorium so that the performers and other audience members could enjoy the evening? Darned tootin', I did! I don't expect anything other than simple courtesy and basic manners. But that, apparently, was asking far too much from this particular person. Several folks actually "shushed" in the woman's direction a couple of times during the performances, but she completely ignored them.

 

Hopefully, the sound editing folks can clean up the noise on the dvd. *sigh*

 

 

I understand that you're pissed off and why. My point is that you don't have to let it get under your skin. You are choosing to let it bother you. Personally, I try not to let things that aren't worthy of stress, stress me out. I'd rather shake it off. It's not like there was anything you could have actually done about it anyway. It's actually quite funny if you can step back from it and take it for what it was: a rude mom with a toddler meltdown of epic proportions.

[Firestar Academy]

we don't even know if it was a parent. We know nothing. Yes, a parent and child should be able to watch... but that parent should have either hired a baby sitter, looked at the program and known when their kid was on and stayed near the back, or given the kid some juice and fought that battle another day. I would rather have had my mom miss the show than be backstage knowing that it was my little brother who was "juice" boy. Now there is a horrible thought. I am even madder at this mom now that I think if it.

 

BTW, I really need to get a life on a Saturday night. :D

 

:iagree::lol::lol:

 

I'm actually sitting at home right now while Dh is out at his cousin's outdoor wedding. It's 90+ degrees out and we were going to have to take our 4 month old. But here I sit at home in the A/C because he would have been a sweating, miserable, obnoxious, screaming mess. Sure, I wanted to celebrate with this cousin who has had a very rough life and is finally finding happiness. I wanted to spend time with my cousin who is finally pregnant after 7 years of trying. I wanted to do the Chicken Dance. I wanted to eat Outback catered food. But my baby's health and happiness and the rights of the other folks to enjoy their day comes first. That's what a responsible parent does. Sometimes, you miss out. Tough luck.

:iagree::iagree:

 

robin

[PeacefulChaos]

I totally get where you are coming from.

At the same time, I'm guessing they wanted to see their child dance, too. Obviously, in a perfect world, they wouldn't have taken their toddler without being uber-prepared (lots of food :lol: or something) or they just wouldn't have brought him/her at all. However, that isn't possible for everyone (to get a sitter). And most recitals, you can't video to be able to watch it later - you have to buy a DVD from the professionals. And besides, who wants to miss their kid dancing, and only see it on video? If they wanted to do that, they could have stayed home.

I'm not saying I wouldn't find it annoying, and I'm not saying that they did the right thing. I'm just saying that they probably had their reasons, which are no less valid than yours. :)

[Georgiana Daniels]

That. Would. Drive. Me. Nuts.

 

I'm super sensitive to random noise, and it absolutely causes me to meltdown inside. Not that I act on it outwardly, but talk about stress!!!

 

When my tots were at that age and our oldest was having vocal recitals, we sat near the door so we could make a quick exit. And always after oldest dd finished singing, I took the kidlets out.

 

Manners and etiquette are in short supply.

[I talk to the trees]

I understand that you're pissed off and why. My point is that you don't have to let it get under your skin. You are choosing to let it bother you. Personally, I try not to let things that aren't worthy of stress, stress me out. I'd rather shake it off. It's not like there was anything you could have actually done about it anyway. It's actually quite funny if you can step back from it and take it for what it was: a rude mom with a toddler meltdown of epic proportions.

 

I agree with you that since there's nothing I can do to change it, I shouldn't let it get to me, and after a good night's sleep, I'm sure I'll agree with that pov even more. However, rudeness isn't funny. Nope. Not funny at all. It falls into the same category for me as those home videos you see where people injure themselves, and everyone laughs. Disturbing, but not amusing in any way.

 

And here's the kicker for me: Dh and I fought tooth and nail to get dd the correct number of lessons/practice time she needed (and we paid for) for this very solo. I went to the recital really looking forward to this number, and honestly didn't enjoy it at all because I was so worried that dd was going to lose her concentration.

 

Just one more point for those who say that this woman's dd/niece/whatever needed someone in the audience to watch her, too. I know for a fact that she wasn't there to see my daughter's solo. So whose feelings would have been hurt by her removing her disruptive child from the auditorium during that number?

 

Ah, well. I'll just have to trust that some serious scrubbing will be done on the audio to the dvd.

 

Oh, and yes, the problem of noise (conversation, crying children, slamming doors) during the recital was addressed a couple of years ago. It was decided that a short statement in the program about basic concert/recital etiquette was unnecessary. Hmmmm.....time to rethink that decision, I think?

[kitten18]

:grouphug:

 

I want you to know that there are those here who totally agree with you and your way of expressing it. I wish that this person hadn't ruined the evening (for obviously a lot of people) an I wish that people here wouldn't jump to the defensive of a person who 1. isn't here, 2. doesn't really deserve a defense, while jumping on you who was 1. a victim of this rudeness, 2. actually "here."

 

Which is ruder? Just curious. I know what I think.

:iagree:

[SKL]

I personally don't think it matters what somebody calls a stranger's child on this forum. It can't hurt the child or her parents. It's just a harmless vent.

 

I can understand wanting to be there for your kid's performance and not having a good child care solution. However, there are other options. Come better prepared. Sit near the rear door. Leave temporarily to give the child a chance to get a drink / blow off steam as needed, and just attend your kid's part of the show.

 

I also think that a child who is old enough to say he wants his juice is old enough to learn to hush in an auditorium during a performance. At least for some sustained time period.

 

I take my kids almost everywhere. I've taken them to professional seminars and grown-up theatre performances, just to name a few. It surprises, even concerns some people. However, I myself have a low tolerance level for foolishness and I will take my kids out if a couple of quiet reminders don't work. So, while I understand the childcare issue, I still don't think that's an excuse.

[Joanne]

Leaving the performance after a reasonable amount of time trying to make it work with the toddler is a no brainer to me. :confused:

 

The OP titled her post in a way that demonstrated it was a vent. She shared her thoughts, frustration, and anger appropriately and in a healthy manner. She didn't hurt ANYONE, didn't act out, didn't let it fester and come out sideways.

 

3 HOURS. 3 HOURS the parents failed to take care of the needs of the toddler AND practice courtesy to the rest of the audience.

 

The fact is that when you have multiple young kids, stuff happens. You miss stuff, you leave places, you decline going places, and things don't go the way you want. It's a season of parenting life - it passes.

 

I would have, and *have* taken my toddler/preschooler out immediately. I've missed church services, performances, and other events. I've also been the parent who is constantly attending to, caring for, and training the same kids to stay in situations the best they can for their developmental level.

 

Were the words of the OP harsh? Sure. She was venting. :confused:

[Joanne]

The idea of a child screaming for 3 hours without stopping makes me want to cry. Poor baby, I find that to be heartbreaking. And, honestly, even my 5 year old can't go 3 hours without a drink - poor child might have been really thirsty.

 

Assuming this is correct, I'd still support the OP in being furious at the parents for not attending to the needs of the baby.

 

I'm not buying that a school ager can't go a period of time without a drink, but if it was a "real need", the parents failed everyone.

[SonshineLearner]

Yup, I'd be seriously irritated. I'd think you rude if you said those things TO the lady, but you're just kinda venting to us :) I pay close to $1500 a year for my daughter to dance... I wanna see those 1.5hrs without a baby or toddler screaming. I don't understand why people who have littles don't get babysitters... Seriously.... I think there should be ushers to come and ask parents to take their kids out... I mean... I understand that babysitters fall through... but that's not what's happening. It's become customary to bring babies/toddlers to places where they really shouldn't be :(

[kolamum]

The OP is VENTING. She didn't ask for advice on how she should have dealt with the situation or even how anyone else would have dealt with it. She was annoyed and frustrated with the situation and wanted to vent. I'm sure she wasn't looking for a finger wagging.

 

Good grief...let the poor girl get it out of her system. :grouphug: to you OP.

 

:iagree: & I'm very sorry your time was spoiled. Regardless of who what when where or why. It stinks. :grouphug:

[cottonmama]

...I wish that people here wouldn't jump to the defensive of a person who 1. isn't here, 2. doesn't really deserve a defense, while jumping on you who was 1. a victim of this rudeness, 2. actually "here."

 

Which is ruder? Just curious. I know what I think.

 

Because this keeps getting brought up... really? It's rude to disagree with someone on a forum post? Does that only apply if they're the OP? ;) :confused:

 

Also, in response to everyone who has said that we all vent and say insulting things about people from time to time -- only a saint wouldn't -- and therefore it's okay... I think there's a big flaw in that logic. Either it's okay or it isn't. Personally I think there is plenty of hurt and harm that comes from habits of insulting people in this way who are not around to defend themselves, as opposed to simply weighing and criticizing (even bemoaning) their actions.

 

I'm not trying to set myself up as someone who is a paragon of virtue... I may not call people names when I vent (at least I don't think I do), but I have plenty of worse faults. But I think it's important to recognize them as faults and reject them rather than just dismissing them because everyone else does it, too.

 

I like to think that we classical educators are pursuing virtue in ourselves as well as our kids. Using Aristotle's definition that would mean we're trying to act in accordance to what we believe is right. Maybe this isn't talked about enough on this forum outside of the context of Christianity?

[KnitWit]

OP, I feel for you. :grouphug::grouphug:

 

I have attended things like this before. It is a series of solo performances, kind of like a piano recital where one kid at a time gets up. It is perfectly understandable for someone to choose to wrestle with their unruly child through their OWN child's performance, but then they should leave. There just is no excuse, explanation, or reason for a parent to sit through the rest of the program that does not include their own child.

[Greenmama2]

Of course they are, but who cares. They get mad, you point out that it isn't fair to everyone else and your just trying to help, they get more mad and huff out, because deep down they are humiliated. Problem solved.

 

Or you open yourself up to the possibility of a very thankful mother, who's stage fright stricken child will not survive without seeing her mom in the audience or who is paralyzed by stress and fear.

 

I know it stinks to be "that" mom, but just pull on your big girl britches and do it or find someone who will.

 

Yes!

[Dealea86]

:grouphug:

 

I want you to know that there are those here who totally agree with you and your way of expressing it. I wish that this person hadn't ruined the evening (for obviously a lot of people) an I wish that people here wouldn't jump to the defensive of a person who 1. isn't here, 2. doesn't really deserve a defense, while jumping on you who was 1. a victim of this rudeness, 2. actually "here."

 

Which is ruder? Just curious. I know what I think.

 

Well personally, I think the rudest thing is for people who weren't even at the recital to say mean things about the woman and her child. It's one thing for the OP to vent, and it's one thing for people to sympathize with her, but it's totally different to go off about "those parents" and how she should have been kicked out, or how she doesn't deserve a defense.

 

But she does deserve a defense. I have no reason to doubt that the OP was telling us the truth about how things happened... but she was emotional, and of course she can only tell her side. There are two sides to every story. The OP is probably the one who is right here and the mom of the toddler is probably a deserving of the things people have said here... but we don't know because we can't ask the other mom.

 

If people had just limited the conversation to sympathizing with the OP it wouldn't have bothered me - she deserves sympathy, her daughter's recital was ruined. It's a totally different thing to disparage a stranger on a public forum where she can't defend herself. JMHO :)

[TeacherZee]

 

Have you ever been in the store, only to have your toddler break down into a sobbing, inconsolable bloody-murder-screeching temper tantrum? I have, repeatedly. And what have I learned from the experience? I ain't no Mary Poppins.

I have a confession to make. I used to think that temper tantrums only happened to other people's kids, and apparently, so do many of the people I see at the grocery store.

My daughter is a pretty even-tempered kid. When she was a toddler, I could take her to the store in small doses. I brought snacks, a toy, a drink, and I changed her diaper before we left. People would complement me on how well-behaved she was, and tell me what a beautiful girl I had. And I would smugly smile, so proud of my clear-cut and excellent parenting skills.

My next kid is another story. Let's call him Chucky, to protect his identity. He hates shopping, period. And he doesn't like being in the car, either. Nevertheless, my family still needs to stock up on toilet paper, laundry detergent, and the basic food groups from time to time. Predictably, once we make it into the grocery store, he begins unbuckling his seat straps (he's just gifted that way, I guess), tries to stand up in the grocery cart, and starts wailing like an ambulance siren. If that doesn't bring on the consolation he's looking for, great big tears well up in his big brown eyes, and stream down his face to a pathetically maudlin effect.

I've been a parent for 10 years now, and during the early years, I spent my free time boning up on self-help books. These books usually suggest that you take a screaming child out of the store, leaving all of your groceries in the cart. Take the child to the car and hold them firmly until they stop crying. Time out, that's what they call it. But I don't do that. Because I live in a rural area, leaving the store just means marching right back in again to finish the job.

I do my best to prevent these tantrums. I stock lots of toys, snacks, drinks, and 3 or 4 diapers for these trips. I try not to torment my son with needless extra stops or browsing. The goal is to get in and get out, guerrilla style.

The screeching, whining and fussing (him, not me) often begins immediately after we place him in the shopping cart. I am beginning to build a small arsenal of "helpful comments" I've heard during these times. Here is my rant. My own tantrum if you will:

 

I am sorry you have gotten dirty looks for store tantrums :grouphug:. I do think there is a difference between the situation the OP is describing and a toddler having a meltdown in a store (I say this as a person who was an expert tantrum thrower as a toddler...and embarrassingly enough for quite a bit longer :blushing:). I have a niece who is not quite two and can throw a tantrum like a pro. If I was looking after her or was with my sister and the situation the OP described happened one of us would have picked her up and taken her to the lobby/outside/car, in all her back bending, crying, wiggling glory. If I had come a cross your situation in the store and you were clearly in guerrilla mode I would have assumed that you were going because you NEEDED to and kid simply had to tag along.

[Nestof3]

My husband, the boys and I attended a symphony and film performance which was completely amazing. But, we had to endure the constant chatter of a couple in their late 60's. My boys were the only children there, and they were quiet the entire time (well, except when Nathan nearly exploded with frustration when this couple chatted during the Harry Potter film score).

 

It is so annoying, and yes, most young kids make noises at horrible times. But, I would not put my desire to see my child perform over the enjoyment of an entire group of people. There are ways to handle it -- hire a sitter, bring a family member, sit near the back and step out during noise or when the person's daughter is not on the stage, etc.

 

I understand the OP is venting -- that's allowed. It's certainly better to vent here than to tear the woman to shreds there. Sometimes we just have to get our emotions out.

[Parrothead]

Well personally, I think the rudest thing is for people who weren't even at the recital to say mean things about the woman and her child. It's one thing for the OP to vent, and it's one thing for people to sympathize with her, but it's totally different to go off about "those parents" and how she should have been kicked out, or how she doesn't deserve a defense.

 

But she does deserve a defense. I have no reason to doubt that the OP was telling us the truth about how things happened... but she was emotional, and of course she can only tell her side. There are two sides to every story. The OP is probably the one who is right here and the mom of the toddler is probably a deserving of the things people have said here... but we don't know because we can't ask the other mom.

 

If people had just limited the conversation to sympathizing with the OP it wouldn't have bothered me - she deserves sympathy, her daughter's recital was ruined. It's a totally different thing to disparage a stranger on a public forum where she can't defend herself. JMHO :)

No one said the lady and her child should be kicked out. But if she can't figure it out herself, she should be asked to leave the auditorium. Some people just don't have what it takes to figure that out for themselves. Maybe it is a lack of breeding or maybe it is a lack of thought. Maybe in this particular case the lady tunes out so much screaming that she doesn't hear it anymore without someone cluing her in that it is disturbing.

 

Personally I can't imagine anything that would be a good enough excuse/defense to let a small child cry for 3 hours in public. Whatever battle the parent is fighting, it needs to be fought at home not in public where hundreds of people are being disturbed. It was not just OP and her family that had their evening and the performance ruined.

 

And it may not be right, but disparaging strangers happens often enough on the GB that it shouldn't be a surprise. Stroller lady and crazy food lady come to mind right off. If those threads are going to bother you, you should just back out and not participate. Otherwise you'll spend a great deal of time frustrated.