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that you wouldn't say to someone in "real life?" This obviously comes from the tattoo thread.

 

I don't say anything here that I wouldn't say to someone irl. This is real life. These forum is made up of real people.

 

Honestly I didn't get my feelings hurt in the other thread. I don't care what people think of my tattoos. But that thread isn't the first time I've seen this kind of thing. It happens often.

 

It just left me wondering.

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I am in agreement.

 

I would probably be more forthright IRL. I don't like to get banned. :lol:

 

Well, yeah, there's that. LOL! I often find myself biting my tongue (or fingers, I guess) here so that I can stick around. :D

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I didn't comment on the other thread, but I thought it put the people who don't like tattoos in a bad spot. I mean, it asked WHY they didn't like tattoos...then, when they gave an honest answer, it became "not okay" to feel that way.

 

I see a huge difference between them giving their honest feelings when asked WHY they didn't like tattoos and them telling someone, unsolicited, IRL "Hey, that tattoo makes you look trashy and low class."

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I didn't comment on the other thread, but I thought it put the people who don't like tattoos in a bad spot. I mean, it asked WHY they didn't like tattoos...then, when they gave an honest answer, it became "not okay" to feel that way.

 

I see a huge difference between them giving their honest feelings when asked WHY they didn't like tattoos and them telling someone, unsolicited, IRL "Hey, that tattoo makes you look trashy and low class."

 

Only ONE person asked the question. I didn't actually catch if that person even has tattoos.

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Well I think buying a brand new car is a waste of money, and I would say that in a thread talking about things like that, but I would never! go up to someone who had bought a new vehicle and tell them they were wasteful with their money. Different people have different values. Discussing ideas is different than going up to someone and giving your opinion about their life.

 

Both my dad and brother have gotten brand new vehicles. I told them I was happy they had gotten something they liked - which was true.

Edited by Meriwether
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enough that it probably shouldn't be stated at times.

 

I am sure someone here could start a thread titled, "What do you really think when you see a fat middle-aged woman?" or "How do you feel about short men?" or "If you have small bOOks, does your husband feel cheated in life?" or a thousand other things that might invite people to be really insensitive.

 

And then people could answer, saying means things, and later claim, "Hey, it was asked!" Just because someone here asks doesn't mean the rest of us should answer. And then the people who don't mind the tattoos (or short men, fat women, etc) then feel compelled to be mean to someone else just to feel better, so it's "let's attack moms from the suburbs day" or whatever. It just leads to ugliness.

 

Probably would have been better if the question hadn't been asked, or, if it had been asked, if the rest of us had just said something like, "Well, I am glad if people have them that they are happy with that" and let it go. Just because one woman chose to ask (and probably had no intention of causing hurt feelings, so no dig on her from me) doesn't mean anyone else should have answered.

 

And I also think that those who felt asked and answered honestly should stop being attacked. I think it was sort of a mistake all around, and it would be best if we could all extend each other some grace, forgiveness, etc, and try to let this go.

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okay, I didn't comment in the other thread, didn't read it beyond seeing it was a poll...but didn't the poll ask what people thought?

 

the question was put out there and people responded, and yes, I don't think anyone would say it in real life to someone, but the question was put out there.

 

maybe I read the wrong post and I am missing something...

 

maybe the poll was a bad idea. I hope that ladies who have tattoos don't feel bad over the thread, we should always like who we are.

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I think that part of the issue is that someone asked for people's honest opinions, and when those were given, others took offense. Offense was a by-product of some people's truthfulness, not the intention of it.

 

I sincerely believe that if you do NOT want to hear people's honest opinions, you should never ask it, and certainly never ask for it on a forum where relative anonymity emboldens people to be more honest than they might in real life.

 

As for me... I say what I mean all the time. Here. IRL. There is no difference. I dislike people who put on a "nice" face, whether online or IRL. I much prefer to know where a person really stands. I prefer to know what is their truth. I don't have to like it and I don't have to agree with it, but if I am offended by it, it is only because I choose to be offended by it.

 

Case in point that brought this issue to a very thoughtful place for me: There was a thread in which another member clearly stated they didn't believe in mental illness. I chose to be very, very offended by that. Upon reflection (lots of reflection) I came to realize that they were just stating what they believe -- their truth. I didn't like it, but it wasn't representative of my truth. So, taking offense at it really wasn't warranted as her opinion bore no relation to my reality. And, I came to decide that was okay. She wasn't just saying crap to piss me off. She was saying her honest opinion (which was asked) and she had the conviction to say why she believed that, too. I give her a lot of credit for standing by her opinion honestly and not doing the little nicey-nice dance. I know where she stands. Believe it or not, I came to have a lot of respect for her, even though we share very few common opinions on much of anything.

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that you wouldn't say to someone in "real life?" This obviously comes from the tattoo thread.

 

I don't say anything here that I wouldn't say to someone irl. This is real life. These forum is made up of real people.

 

Honestly I didn't get my feelings hurt in the other thread. I don't care what people think of my tattoos. But that thread isn't the first time I've seen this kind of thing. It happens often.

 

It just left me wondering.

 

"What is your opinion?"

 

and

 

"Why the negativity about tattoos? . . . Please explain."

 

The problem may be that people who aren't asking are reading things they may find hurtful. IRL, the discussion would be more private, and those who might be hurt wouldn't be part of the conversation.

 

I didn't read through all of the first thread, but I read through the second/poll thread, and the one asking which tattoo the OP should get. I didn't find anything offensive. I was surprised to see the poll showed 50% of the people did not care for them (I included the "Other" option, because many chose that based on the wording of the first option).

 

Personally, I take it as a message board, and I don't get too worked up over someone else's opinion, whatever the topic.

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I do feel there's a difference. I'll try to explain.

 

There are different real life situations. There's a polite chit-chat over dinner. There's a heated, but friendly and respectful debate. I view this board (and others like this) as more conductive to respectful debates, rather than polite, restrained chit-chat.

 

In real life, however, at least for me, it is difficult to find situations where I can engage in a discussion where people have opposing point of views.

 

If someone on this board asks a difficult question, I assume they want to hear all kind of answers. By definition, such a person is interested in a friendly debate--such are conventions of most discussion boards. While if my casual friend asks me whether I like her wonderful new sofa, it is probably a "jawm" question. The standards of etiquette are different.

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I think the internet takes a little of the humanity out of the interaction. If I say something to you that is hurtful I don't have to see the hurt expression on your face or in your eyes. I think this is a big factor in cyber bullying. It is one thing to type "you are fat, ugly, stupid, trashy, and everyone hates you" on a computer or phone, it is a whole other story to say it to someone's face with their humanity and emotions staring back at you.

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I think if someone asked a person IRL "do you think tattoos are trashy?" they would feel free to answer that honestly.

 

I think the poll was worded in a manner that invited negativity.

 

So say I am sitting down for a tea party

 

Person A: So...do you think tattoos are trashy? Yes or no?

 

Person B: Yes, I think they are low class.

 

Person C: You are an idiot so who cares!

 

Person D: I am offended by all y'all

 

Person E: I am sorry B was so mean. :(

 

Person B: Hey! They asked me!

 

 

Which is what happened. :lol:

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I'm not talking about people who give their opinion when asked for. When someone posts a thread looking for opinions, opinions will be given. We can all choose to be offended or to not be offended. I have learned after four years here not to be offended by the vast majority of things. I got my feelings hurt on a tattoo/piercing thread last year (I think it was) and vowed that would be the last time I would let this forum offend me.

 

I am talking about the people who state clearly that they think something/someone is trashy, ugly, gross, whatever and then say, "Oh, but I would never say that in real life." What's up with that? This is real life!

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I think if someone asked a person IRL "do you think tattoos are trashy?" they would feel free to answer that honestly.

 

I think the poll was worded in a manner that invited negativity.

 

So say I am sitting down for a tea party

 

Person A: So...do you think tattoos are trashy? Yes or no?

 

Person B: Yes, I think they are low class.

 

Person C: You are an idiot so who cares!

 

Person D: I am offended by all y'all

 

Person E: I am sorry B was so mean. :(

 

Person B: Hey! They asked me!

 

 

Which is what happened. :lol:

 

Which is why I don't go to tea parties. Women confuse me. :D

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I'm not talking about people who give their opinion when asked for. When someone posts a thread looking for opinions, opinions will be given. We can all choose to be offended or to not be offended. I have learned after four years here not to be offended by the vast majority of things. I got my feelings hurt on a tattoo/piercing thread last year (I think it was) and vowed that would be the last time I would let this forum offend me.

 

I am talking about the people who state clearly that they think something/someone is trashy, ugly, gross, whatever and then say, "Oh, but I would never say that in real life." What's up with that? This is real life!

 

 

Oh. Well, I do not know what is up with that. False bravado, maybe? :confused:

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I think there are several reasons. One, I agree with the pp who said there's a difference between an online discussion of ideas where opinions are asked and real-life social encounters. They really are completely different animals. Two, there's a distance with posting online. You aren't confronted with the other person's facial expressions or body language--the removal of that instant feedback makes it feel less risky to be honest (or to be rude, for that matter. Third, you don't have to face the consequences so much online. If you say something IRL that offends a friend or family member, you'll have to deal with the fallout in your life. For the most part, online relationships are very superficial (obviously there are exceptions, but even for those who have made some close friends online, that's probably just a couple of people out of the hundreds you actually interact with), and people have less invested emotionally in protecting and nurturing those relationships. If you make someone mad here, pretty much the worst that will happen is that they'll put you on ignore or maybe target you with snarky posts. When it's someone you aren't really close to, it's not likely to bother you that much.

 

That said, there are the people-pleasers among us (like me!) who would often rather keep our opinions to ourselves than hurt someone else's feelings. I don't think that's being fake; I think it's being considerate of others and refusing to make mountains out of molehills.

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Case in point that brought this issue to a very thoughtful place for me: There was a thread in which another member clearly stated they didn't believe in mental illness. I chose to be very, very offended by that. Upon reflection (lots of reflection) I came to realize that they were just stating what they believe -- their truth. I didn't like it, but it wasn't representative of my truth. So, taking offense at it really wasn't warranted as her opinion bore no relation to my reality. And, I came to decide that was okay. She wasn't just saying crap to piss me off. She was saying her honest opinion (which was asked) and she had the conviction to say why she believed that, too. I give her a lot of credit for standing by her opinion honestly and not doing the little nicey-nice dance. I know where she stands. Believe it or not, I came to have a lot of respect for her, even though we share very few common opinions on much of anything.

 

:thumbup1:

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If someone on this board asks a difficult question, I assume they want to hear all kind of answers. By definition, such a person is interested in a friendly debate--

 

:iagree:

 

And if you are not interested in hearing all kinds of answers (or engaging in or simply reading a friendly debate), it is always an option to refrain from clicking the link to the thread.

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I think the internet takes a little of the humanity out of the interaction.

 

I think it puts it in mine. I tend to be shy with people who are clearly distressed (unless I am in a professional relationship with them) in real life. Here, people can let us KNOW if they are distressed and asking for advice or sympathy. I feel much more comfortable sharing jokes, giving hugs, etc. because a person can **take them or leave them**. No one has to read a single one of my posts. It is also why I like email more than phone calls. I never interrupted someone or caught them in a bad moment in email, thus I email more people, more frequently, and am more loquacious.

 

However, I was raised to not be afraid to be blunt when it is called for. However, I put my brakes on on line because one can't *get* the "caring but have to talk about tough things" from my voice/face on line. I have to rely, sometimes, on people here knowing me.

 

I also think that people put out much more here than in real life. There is something about the pseudonyms/space, etc that make people able to open up. How often to we hear: I have no one in real life I can say this to.

 

So, while some people become very nasty on line, I think many, many people feel they are *better*, more full people on line.

Edited by kalanamak
spelling, again
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I think that it is that the internet lacks that personal component. You don't have to see the pain in someone's face when you say something hurtful. It is almost as if people think that they are talking to computers and that they forget that there is a person on the other end. I also think that the speed of communication contributes to the problem. It is so easy to spit your ideas out bruntly than to take time to phrase them better.

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I didn't comment on the other thread, but I thought it put the people who don't like tattoos in a bad spot. I mean, it asked WHY they didn't like tattoos...then, when they gave an honest answer, it became "not okay" to feel that way.

 

I see a huge difference between them giving their honest feelings when asked WHY they didn't like tattoos and them telling someone, unsolicited, IRL "Hey, that tattoo makes you look trashy and low class."

 

to the red, it is perfectly fine to say you don't like tattoos. There are kind and unkind ways, respectful and non, hurtful and non, ways of expressing yourself. It is always good to take others feelins into consideration. It is easy to see how meaningful tattoos are to most people who have them.

 

To your second paragraph, :iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree: ESPECIALLY when there are many respected people here with tattos, and especially when some of them are really hurting.

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Why is it OK on this forum to ask a question which cannot be answered honestly without rubbing some people the wrong way?

 

Why is it OK on this forum to ask a question you would never ask in real life? For example, thousands of questions about:

  • what to do about my rotten kid, husband, MIL, sister, etc.
  • help me self-diagnose my mental problem
  • where do you buy comfy bras and menstrual cups
  • why my neighbor planting a tree by my fence or a fence by my tree
  • what is this stuff in my 11yo dd's underwear
  • how often do you wash your sheets/sweep/bathe ...
  • what should I do if a kid I know isn't being treated right
  • why do gay people dress a certain way
  • how often do you have "tea"
  • what if I want a kid and my husband doesn't
  • my husband is having a mental breakdown
  • I want to get away from my children
  • etc etc etc

I think it's reasonable to expect conversation here to be different from IRL.

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And I also think that those who felt asked and answered honestly should stop being attacked. I think it was sort of a mistake all around, and it would be best if we could all extend each other some grace, forgiveness, etc, and try to let this go.

 

Personally, I think asking the question was fine. For me personally, like I said earlier, some of the comments were hurtful and made me feel uncomfortable for the people here who would read them.

 

Mrs. Mungo summed it up perfectly IMO. There are ALWAYS tactful ways to answer a question.

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Why is it OK on this forum to ask a question which cannot be answered honestly without rubbing some people the wrong way?

 

Why is it OK on this forum to ask a question you would never ask in real life? For example, thousands of questions about:

 

  • what to do about my rotten kid, husband, MIL, sister, etc.

  • help me self-diagnose my mental problem

  • where do you buy comfy bras and menstrual cups

  • why my neighbor planting a tree by my fence or a fence by my tree

  • what is this stuff in my 11yo dd's underwear

  • how often do you wash your sheets/sweep/bathe ...

  • what should I do if a kid I know isn't being treated right

  • why do gay people dress a certain way

  • how often do you have "tea"

  • what if I want a kid and my husband doesn't

  • my husband is having a mental breakdown

  • I want to get away from my children

  • etc etc etc

 

I think it's reasonable to expect conversation here to be different from IRL.

 

Well, I think I've found my answer. Those are all questions that I would ask in "real life" and here. I guess I have no filters. And I guess that's why I won't ever understand why people are okay with saying things here but not in what they consider real life though I do appreciate the explanations that have been given.

 

And as for your first question, I never said it wasn't okay to answer honestly. I would much rather have someone tell me to my face they think my tattoo is trashy or that my butt looks big or that my child is a brat than to smile sweetly and then go talk about me behind my back. I only give myself two choices: be honest or keep my mouth shut.

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Well, I think I've found my answer. Those are all questions that I would ask in "real life" and here. I guess I have no filters. And I guess that's why I won't ever understand why people are okay with saying things here but not in what they consider real life though I do appreciate the explanations that have been given.

 

And as for your first question, I never said it wasn't okay to answer honestly. I would much rather have someone tell me to my face they think my tattoo is trashy or that my butt looks big or that my child is a brat than to smile sweetly and then go talk about me behind my back. I only give myself two choices: be honest or keep my mouth shut.

 

I agree with your last sentence especially, but I've gotten the impression from a couple of posts in this thread that keeping your mouth shut when you have an opinion that might offend equals being fake and looking down on people and that they'd rather you (generic "you") be honest even if it would mean hurting others. Maybe I just took it the wrong way.

 

I guess part of it for me is that if I have an opinion about something minor, it's not worth it to me to express it if it might offend. Why bother if it's just going to hurt someone and it's not that big of a deal? And if it's something I do feel strongly about and that I think is important, I really try to express myself as politely and considerately as possible. Doing otherwise tends to shut down discussion and make it counterproductive, kwim?

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I would much rather have someone tell me to my face they think my tattoo is trashy or that my butt looks big or that my child is a brat than to smile sweetly and then go talk about me behind my back. I only give myself two choices: be honest or keep my mouth shut.

 

If someone smiles sweetly rather than being brutally honest in situations that don't require such honesty, it doesn't mean that he or she will talk people's back.

 

I really dislike cloying, insincere sweetness. However, not every situation calls for telling people that their butt looks big or their kids are brats.

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I don't get invited cause I am totally Person C. *bag on head smilie*

 

I guess that is why I don't get this. I THINK lots of people are idiots, but I manage to disagree with them without actually calling them an idiot. I manage to restrain myself every day here, even when people are being idiots and solicit opinions. Therefore, I think others should be able to restrain themselves. I don't see why I worry about even heavily implying that I think some people are idiots when people seem to be okay with calling people trashy. I think calling someone trashy is more offensive than calling them an idiot.

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I guess that is why I don't get this. I THINK lots of people are idiots, but I manage to disagree with them without actually calling them an idiot. I manage to restrain myself every day here, even when people are being idiots and solicit opinions. Therefore, I think others should be able to restrain themselves. I don't see why I worry about even heavily implying that I think some people are idiots when people seem to be okay with calling people trashy. I think calling someone trashy is more offensive than calling them an idiot.

 

That's cause you are a military wife, you are trained not to say what you really think. :lol:

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That's cause you are a military wife, you are trained not to say what you really think. :lol:

 

I DO say what I think, just not *everything* that I think. Like when I think people are idiots. I rarely actually tell people they are idiots.:tongue_smilie:

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Y'all should see her "Yikes! This person talking to me is an idiot! What do I do!?!?" face.

 

Everyone who knows me IRL is laughing now, I am sure. Most people here have no idea about my faces, lol! That is why dh is always saying, "quit being so animated,"

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:iagree:

 

And if you are not interested in hearing all kinds of answers (or engaging in or simply reading a friendly debate), it is always an option to refrain from clicking the link to the thread.

 

:iagree:

 

And if you are the person who posted the thread, it's not fair to get upset when people post opinions you don't like, if you specifically asked people for their honest opinions.

 

If you want everyone to agree with you, make sure you mention that you're just venting or that it's a JAWM thread, because if you don't, all bets are off.

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