Okay HIVE, We're stumped.

[Supertechmom]

We have a perfect little darling who had been checked out physically for everything. He seems as fine as one can say about a 2 year old. he doesn't talk. He has some babble, some words but has been extremely resistant to speech. He will even move his mouth as if talking but won't let the sounds come out. He's been in speech (2x a week with 1x Early intervention.) for a year now.

 

They all agree that nothing is wrong physically and they don't think anything is wrong like auditory processing (his older brother has that and we can't test for that anyway for another few years). Autism is out and so are any and all spectrum disorders. His receptive language is quite high far higher than one his age, in fact everything is far higher than "normal" except his ability to speak. That is more in line with a one year old if that high.

 

He started therapy with a picture board to point to what he wanted. He picked that up overnight it seemed. We added sign language to it and once he made up his mind to sign (getting him to make a sign took close to 4 months), he picked up sign language easily and rapidly moved to 4 and 5 sign "sentences". In like 2 months tops. He astounded the two speech therapist with his ability to slap out a sentence in sign. ("want more candy please, thank you" and want more drink and banana please) And he could do that without prompting once he learned. One thing we had to do in therapy to get him to participate was to make him mad. If he gets riled up, he will go on a signing spree or start screaming sounds with several words sprinkled in them. But if you didn't push him to that point, he would just ignore you and do without.

 

then they decided to add sounds to the signs. Like say the sound m when he asked for more. and to encourage him to vocalize in any way with the signs.

 

He's balked. 100% quit. He still does some signs but completely shuts down if we try to do anything else in therapy. They've tried everything. his favorite toys, microphones, recordings, using the siblings, just playing, nothing..... He won't do anything for them. For us at home, he will still give signs for drink and various other foods and will attempt to say sounds if the mood is right. But mostly he's quit.

 

The consensus has become that they think he is showing perfectionist tendencies and because his speech clearly doesn't sound like the rest of us has decided not to speak. Given the other kids, their IQs and some of the things we've dealt with that is entirely believable . He wouldn't be the first perfectionist in the family :glare:

 

SO long story short, the therapists absolutely don't know what to do with him. Everything they research, all the other professionals they speak with about him, are all clueless. The experience and scope seems to be with autism and spectrum disorders and he doesn't fit any of that. I'm at the point of just quitting and letting time take it's course since everyone form the ped to the EI therapist to the evaluators to the speech therapists believe he is physically capable but chooses not to.

 

Has anyone ever dealt with such a kid and what worked?? Is there something we may have missed physically that I should ask about? There are no swallowing difficulties, no drinking difficulty, no hearing problems at all (and they have been all over that in a multitude of ways), no issue understanding, no issue with having something to say or communicate. He's highly expressive, very attentive, looks you in the eye, screams at the top of his lungs when he wants, can and has been recorded making pretty much ever constant and vowel sound and a multitude of combinations. He'll even participate in reading lessons with the siblings and attempt to make sounds sometimes.

 

The head speech therapist is coming back tomorrow to reset goals and she admits ( and she's at least my age so she's no spring chicken) that she has never dealt with such a kid and that when they find out what works, they are writing a paper about him.

 

ANY IDEAS??? Anything no matter how small or tiny it might seem? The ped says it is 4th child syndrome( has too many talkers for him) with a dose of perfectionism and highly gifted rolled into one. Plus,he's so darn cute and expressive,you know what he wants the moment he looks at you. BUt we do want him to talk (yeah I know silence is golden especially when he's in the middle of non stop yaking 24/7.) His daddy is a quiet one and says it's about time he got one like him. :D

[Chris in VA]

Maybe google elective mutism and see what you find?

:grouphug: Must be frustrating all around.

[ssavings]

Could it be some sort of apraxia?

[Shawndrese]

I don't know much about any of this...but my sons were both super late talkers. My oldest was 3 and my youngest didn't talk until he was 3 1/2. I always thought they would just talk when they were ready to say something. And now they talk too much! lol!

Also, I remember reading somewhere that when a child learns to sign language, it could delay their speech because they think it's easier. So it sounds like he just prefers to sign and sees no reason to talk. Being that he is only 2 I really wouldn't worry. :D

[OrganicAnn]

My mom says that my younger sister didn't talk because as the third child she didn't have to until she started talking in complete sentences. So I do believe that it can possibly be part of it.

 

How is his muscle tone? I've heard that early talkers have good mouth muscles that help them talk, so it might be logical that poor muscle tone in jaw/tongue/mouth could cause problems?

 

I think that as long as you are doing sign language and other means of encouraging expression, that is the best you can do.

 

Also try the special needs board.

[Susie in SWVA]

If it is any encouragement to you, our son (who was adopted at age 17 months), did not walk until age 2 or speak until age three, is now a very articulate young man at age 13. He is quiet, but speaks well when needed, and is VERY artistic. His drawings and models are incredible!!!! I guess what I want to say is don't get discouraged. He is so young. Things can work themselves out.

 

Susie is SWVA

[Susie in SWVA]

If it is any encouragement to you, our son (who was adopted at age 17 months), did not walk until age 2 or speak until age three, is now a very articulate young man at age 13. He is quiet, but speaks well when needed, and is VERY artistic. His drawings and models are incredible!!!! I guess what I want to say is don't get discouraged. He is so young. Things can work themselves out.

 

Susie is SWVA

[Lawana]

I had a 2yo nontalker. At 2y 3m she had 2 sound associations. "Jees" meant cookies, juice and keys. "Ma" meant bottle, broom, balloon and ball. She tested high on receptive language and was in speech therapy. Before she turned 5, she tested at age level in expressive speech. I also have a brother, probably not so coincidently a 4th child, who uttered not a word until age 3. He is now extraordinarily gifted in expressive language, and in fact learned a second language as a young adult and is living in that county, completely fluent in the language.

 

Since your child is understanding what you say and has a way of communicating, I would take the pressure off and allow time for the expressive language to develop. If you were concerned that there was something actually wrong, I would think differently. But you can't, after all, make a child speak. And I don't really get provoking anger as a method to force the issue.

[dtsmamtj]

I had one who didn't talk much at all, but about 6 weeks before he turned 3 he started talking in full sentences and hasn't stopped yet!!! We never took him in and because the older three didn't talk much before age 2 I didin't think anything of it. Others think he is destined for politics or some profession where he can debate!!:scared: - oh, another thing, he is child #4!!!

[3browneyedboys4me]

I don't know much about any of this...but my sons were both super late talkers. My oldest was 3 and my youngest didn't talk until he was 3 1/2. I always thought they would just talk when they were ready to say something. And now they talk too much! lol!

Also, I remember reading somewhere that when a child learns to sign language, it could delay their speech because they think it's easier. So it sounds like he just prefers to sign and sees no reason to talk. Being that he is only 2 I really wouldn't worry. :D

 

I have no real experience but I do agree with signing delaying his speaking. I also think that having him in therapy at such a young age might have influenced his desire (or lack there of) to talk. I don't know. He seems to be very aware of the importance of communication.

 

I wish I knew something really valuable to say. I have a two year old but he talks in complete sentences and never stops. He is the fourth too. He gets loads of attention as well. He enjoys the laughter he gets when he "says" something funny. I believe that has been a huge motivator for him. He loves attention and we are constantly lavishing him with it.

 

I really believe he will talk when he is ready. I hope you find a solution soon.

:grouphug:

[dressagemom]

He's still pretty young. He understands what you want, he just doesn't want to do it. He probably has a reason, even if you never figure out what it is. As frustrating as it is, I would encourage signing (just so he has a way to communicate with everyone, not as a means to speech), and not pressure him *at all* to use speech. Give him a few months to just be a baby. There is so much going on developmentally at this age, and so much pressure to speak, to potty train, wean from nursing/bottle/paci, sleep through the night, etc. I would let him be a baby in this area for a little longer.

 

In a few months, I would start talking to him about using words, and how that helps you to understand him better, and how you are excited to hear what he has to say to you, etc. Let him know you can wait patiently until he is ready to speak, and that it's ok if what he says doesn't sound "right"; he will figure it out soon. Sometimes, if you just back off and make it a non-issue, they have the room to decide to do exactly what you wanted them to do in the first place, but it becomes *their* choice. They don't feel like you are forcing them into it. (haha, this has been the case with all of our children, who aren't at all strong-willed, nope not at all, not one bit, except when you want them to do something, hehe!)

[Rosie_0801]

I'd improve his ASL since he is willing. Bilingualism isn't a bad thing. Speech delayed in one language is better than speech delayed in two languages like we are around here.

 

Rosie

[wapiti]

I'd keep up with the speech therapy, of course, at least as best as they can.

 

Other than that, my inclination would be to completely avoid pushing him to talk. Drop it, forget about it, act like you completely don't care.

 

(gut guess: your ped is probably right. My twin boys had zero words till 3 y.o., so I understand what a total pain that is ;). Yeah, it could last another year :tongue_smilie:)

 

Alternative: if you think he has apraxia, you might seek out a PROMPT speech therapist. And do visit the Special Needs board :)

Edited May 2, 2012 by wapiti

[abacus2]

If you trust the evaluations, I would lean towards letting him sign and waiting. I've heard of gifted children who refused to talk until they could do so perfectly. If he were four, I would be more inclined to push it, but at two waiting seems reasonable.

[misidawnrn]

My 8yo said exactly 4 words at age 2. She said mama, daddy, Skyla (her sister) and kitty. She was completely potty trained at 22 months and never said the word potty. We taught her a few words in sign like milk, more, cookies, juice, potty, please, thank you, etc. She took to sign very easily. She started talking when she was ready and now doesn't shut up...ever:001_smile:.

 

My dad told me a story of a little girl he grew up with. She didn't talk...not one word, until she was 6. Suddenly, she told her mom "watch out, that knife is sharp!". She talked in full sentences after that. (this was 50+ years ago so they didn't have therapy back then.

[Alphabetika]

I confess I have not experienced this personally. But my dearest male childhood friend was a VERY late talker. His mom told me this story many times: he spoke barely a word until he was about four. Then, one day, he opened his mouth and spoke what amounted to a complete, well-expressed paragraph. Then he just kept talking.

[Supertechmom]

LOL You guys are great. :hurray: My hubby keeps having a dream that the child just spills forth a paragraph and it takes him a few minutes to realize the child spoke much less several sentences.

 

I do trust the evaluations but I do wonder if there is anything else that one might have overlooked......... Is there anything physically that could cause this? something the speech and ped may have just not thought of? They ruled out apraxia because he can make the sounds and mutism because his speaking or lack of it doesn't change based on people or situation.

 

My gut does tell me he's a gifted kid whose refusing to talk until it's perfect and to back off of trying to do sounds. I think I could get him to learn the sign language alphabet as well as a host of other signs. Any good recommendations??

[fhjmom]

Signing does not delay speech. I would just continue to immerse him in a language rich environment - both oral language and using ASL - and give him some time. Certainly stay on top of it, but for now it sounds like you are doing all the right things.

 

Since you asked, one of my favorite ASL resources is ASL University at http://www.lifeprint.com.

[mandymom]

My mother swears that my younger brother didn't say a word until he was 4 years old. Then she says that he walked into the kitchen and said, "Mom, may I please have a cookie?". He was the one that the doctor kept saying, "If he doesn't do such and such by his next check-up, we'll have him tested." and then he'd go home and do whatever it is that they were waiting on him to do.

 

In the end, he graduated from Cornell in three years and then went on and got his masters in computer programming. I'm pretty sure he is just stubborn and also enjoyed making people fret over him :)

 

My daughter didn't talk at all at the age of two. She started speaking a little at almost 3, and now you can't shut her up! She never went to any therapy....I guess she just wasn't ready to share her thoughts with the world just then :001_smile:

[BatmansWife]

I would try not to worry about it too much right now. He's only 2. My ds didn't talk until after he turned 3. He could hum everything perfectly before that.

 

My dad didn't speak until he was about 5. He was standing in a train station next to his mother and when the train started moving and letting out steam, smoke, and noise, he said, "The d*mn train blew up". Those were his first words. :001_smile:

 

My youngest learned sign language too, starting at 9 months. She could sign well over 100 words before she started speaking. Do you have Signing Time?

Edited May 2, 2012 by ~AprilMay~

[nova147]

I've got a fairly nonverbal 2 year old as well. Mine is not as stubborn as yours!

 

If you trust the evaluation that it's not apraxia, I suggest waiting. I've run through the whole list of possibilities with 2 speech therapists (one a good friend who I greatly trust), a pediatrician, and a developmental therapist. Nothing on that list isn't on yours.

 

Signing doesn't delay speech - in fact, it expands the area of the brain dedicated to language, just like learning a second (verbal) language does. Plus, it means you can communicate! So go with that.

 

DD2's evaluation was a week before we went on vacation with my family. While we were gone and for about a week after we got home, no one tried to get her to talk. We pointed, asked lots of questions, basically did whatever to find out what she wanted. And she started babbling more. Not speaking. And not to us. But babbling. We'll take what we can get!

 

:grouphug:

[chepyl]

DD did not talk regularly until almost 3. She had a few words, but not more than 5 at 2. Every now amd then she would get fruatrated and let put a new word clear as day, get a shocked/oops kind of look and close her mouth. She did not want us to onow she could talk. She also did thos with colors, shapes, letters, and numbers. She is stubborn! I would not worry. Give him time.

[SonshineLearner]

You might want to check out Nellie Edge She has some great literacy/signing videos... and some free stuff :)

[La Texican]

There's a movie called "phonics 4 babies". I just googled and the reviews are very mixed. We'd have given it 5stars. I bought it for my toddler (now pre-k) because it was Shari and Lambchop's daughter in her own ventriloquist movie. It's got the catchy "a-a-apple, b-b- ball, c-c-cat, d-d-dog" song I memorized and coaxed my son into singing along on it (parts of it at first). Sometimes on the "do you see the ___?" questions I pointed to the screen and cheerfully said, "There it is." or "I see it." (the one star reviewers didn't like those scenes)

Re: perfectionism

(because of phonemic awareness)

[kubiac]

The ped says it is 4th child syndrome( has too many talkers for him) with a dose of perfectionism and highly gifted rolled into one.

 

FWIW, I think your doc nailed it and that the kid will talk when he's three years and three months old, take about a month to perfect the fine motor skill aspect of it, and then speak flawlessly and articulately for the rest of his life.

 

He sounds awesome, all told, and maybe like one of the those late-talking Einstein-Feynmann type kids. :)

 

P.S. Another vote for Signing Time. It's amazing. (And I also don't think that signing delays speech.)

Edited May 2, 2012 by kubiac

[Lab1]

My oldest was very speech delayed. Signing Time videos are great! Her ST noticed that when she was sick and missed therapy, she could tell a big difference. I quit therapy and kept her home. The stress and tears every week caused her a lot of stress. She is very sensitive! It was the best option for her. You might give your little one a summer off to be kid and play with the family. You can always start therapy again if you think he needs it.

[lailasmum]

I have friends whose son was completely unintelligible until the christmas after his fifth birthday. He just babbled like a baby then that christmas over 2 or 3 weeks it was like a switch being turned on and he suddenly spoke normally. Now at 7 he is totally normal in that department.

[mlbuchina]

I don't have any helpful info, but my dad didn't start talking until he was 5. He was the second child.

[CLBMom]

My father who was the third with siblings 6&9 years older then him did not speak other then grunts till he was 3. His siblings did everything for him, so he didn't need to. One day when the older kids were at school my Grandmother was washing dishes and she heard a little voice say "May I please have a glass of water?" She said she almost passed out lol. They had told her he was the "R" word and to never expect anything out of him. He continued to be very shy so my Grandparents took him to a physiatrist and they tested his IQ. It was off the charts it was so high. I wouldn't worry so much at his age. It sounds like he is very bright and may be "using the system". It has probably become a huge power struggle to him. I wonder what he would do if you just kind of forgot about it for a little while and just acted as if everything was normal, like he wasn't any different then the other kids?

[amo_mea_filiis.]

My ds is 7 and still having trouble with language. I recently learned that apraxia is very subjective. A therapust at 5 said no because he could say puh tuh kuh together. Another therapist said oral motor planning, but not apraxia, related to his possible cerebral palsy. We've finally settled on calling it apraxia. His OT works on overall motor planning and i do some speech and signing with him at home.

 

If you are concerned, you can try an occupational therapist, and an ENT.

 

Signing shows that he has the ability to communicate and is great for fine motor skills and motor planning. I would absolutely continue signing with no pressure for sounds right now.

[Butter]

My 10 year old didn't speak until 2 1/2 and then he started talking in complete sentences. We didn't do anything. He just talked one day. One of my sister's friends didn't speak until nearly 4. She said she just never had to (a few older siblings) and then one day she needed to so she did.

[KidsHappen]

May I ask why you started him in therapy at one? I took child language development in college and at that age the only reason to be concerned would be if it seemed that the child could not hear or make any noise at all. Most children know only a few words at one. Dramatic vocabulary expansion doesn't start until 18-24 months and they don't start two and three word sentences until after that. And these are just averages. Some start earlier and some later. If you have already had him checked out and everything appears to be ok, I would quit worrying about it and just let him learn at his own pace. He will talk when he is ready. Three of my six children were late talkers (as in vocabulary expansion starting at closer to three) and the youngest one did not speak clearly until she was older still. None of them have any hearing difficulties and they all speak just fine.

[sahm99]

I am one of those, who wouldn't worry.

You have excluded physical reasons, and your son seems to develop "normally" in other areas.

 

For what it's worth, our pediatrician (very experienced!) told me that she typically observes (very) late talking with kids having two or more older siblings. These little ones seem to evolve just fine with minimal verbal communication in their sibling group, and basically lack incentives to make an effort...

 

Our second dd was non-verbal until 2.5 (she literally made two different grunting sounds until then - which her brother and sister then translated for her). She was fully "caught up" in less than 6 weeks, once she decided that talking was actually an interesting activity to get involved in.

 

Our toddler is 2 and a half now and uses words, ...but is certainly not the impressively verbal proud-momma-kid on the block, either...actually, according to his older siblings, his verbal skills are an embarassement to the whole family...:lol:

 

I guess I won't have a choice, but to sit it out...again.:D

[littlebug42]

I have a nephew who was like this at that age. Speech therapy was a waste of time because he would not talk because he didn't want to. He is now 15 and while perfectly capable, just doesn't talk much. If you have ruled out physical stuff, I would just let him come to it in his own time.

[Murmer]

I know you have probably already checked but just in case Have you gone to an ENT? I just found out my son who talks like he is underwater does that because he hears everything like it is underwater...we are going in today to get tubes in hopes it will help. He will be 3 in 1 month and there was no history of ear infection (the normal way to diagnosis). The only reason we even got in to the ENT is because his sister helped him shove a piece of styrofoam in his ear and when it was removed the ENT noticed fluid and said that was not normal.

 

So if you haven't already (and I am sure you have) make sure he has seen an ENT, our regular doctors never even noticed the fluid its just not in their normal checking routine.

[Annie G]

I would encourage you to read Thomas Sowell's Late Talking Children.

It changed our life. Our son was 2 1/2 and not talking at all. The early intervention folks brought in a speech therapist and it just stressed the boy out. No progress. One day we went to the mall and happened to hand him something to drink and he chugged it down as if he was on the verge of dehydration. Oh! The kid can't tell us he's thirsty! So we taught him some basic signs. Between speech therapists, IQ testing, the school psychologist, we were stressed too.

A friend gave us the book, and our boy fit the profile perfectly. It gave us the confidence to let him develop at his own rate- which doesn't mean not helping, but in this case meant stopping speech therapy. He's going to turn 18 next month and is currently enrolled at our community college while finishing his senior year. He spends lots of time doing musical theater- singing, dancing, and acting in front of thousands of people. And he started as a 2 year old who couldn't say a word.

[Rebecca VA]

In "Late-Talking Children," Thomas Sowell mentions several examples of young children who whisper to themselves when no one is around to see. They don't want to "go public" with their speech until they're ready. Maybe they're perfectionists? I wouldn't worry about it unless your son seems frustrated.

 

I loved "Late-Talking Children" and instantly saw my own daughter in the case studies. She was an extremely late talker. She was a very happy preschooler who was just "quiet." Looking back, I'm glad we didn't make her feel inadequate or badger her. She talked when she was ready.

 

P.S. You said your son might take after your husband. Does your mother-in-law have any stories of his childhood or ideas for you? Sometimes late talking runs in families.

Edited May 2, 2012 by Rebecca VA

[Kathy in Richmond]

My gifted perfectionist daughter was like that. She recently told me that she thinks that she went through a period of selective mutism. At two, she basically spoke two words (mama & dada), but she used those two words multi-functionally. For instance, "mama" also meant "red" and "dada" also meant "green." There were many more meanings, too. It was as if those were the only two words which she was confident speaking, and she was determined to get a lot of mileage out of them. :) It was evident that her receptive language was quite high. She wasn't showing any signs of spectrum disorders. Pointed to what she wanted. Screeching a lot (my ears still hurt!). Later on at three years, lots of tears when she tried to speak and we couldn't understand her.

 

All very puzzling to us since her older brother spoke articulately and in grammatically correct sentences from the time he was a toddler. We weren't worried about her intelligence. She would do things like write the ABC's neatly in order on paper; she just wouldnt' SAY them. She could do mental arithmetic at a very high level and wanted to learn multiplication at 4 years (I was a math teacher and she sat on my lap while I graded CTY homework papers, and she would actively watch me). When she started to speak at 3 or 4 years, her favorite phrase was "mine do it!"...she didn't like getting help at all with anything, to put it mildly. She still has to figure everything out by herself.

 

There were articulation problems when she started speaking, so we started speech therapy at her third birthday and continued until she was 12 years old. The therapy helped a bit, but her speech still isn't one hundred percent. The therapists said that was best they could do. She's OK with it. People can understand her now, but new acquaintances usually think she has an accent & ask her what country she's from. And now she's my nonstop talker (and my highly verbal son is the quiet one;)).

 

I second the suggestion for reading the Thomas Sowell book on late-talking children. You might also want to read about visual spatial learners (VSLs). We were still a little concerned about my daughter in the middle school years when we were still working on phonics rules (her spelling was awful) and math facts (much trouble memorizing them). On the other hand, at twelve her math concepts were extremely advanced, and she was a speed reader with amazing comprehension. I suspected her brain was just plain different (her daddy is similar). We had her take the Johns Hopkins spatial test battery, and she scored off the charts.

 

Some good books to read:

Late Talking Children - Thomas Sowell

The Einstein Syndrome - Thomas Sowell

Upside Down Brilliance: The Visual Spatial Learner - Linda Silverman

Right Brained Children in a Left Brained World - Jeffrey Freed

Strong-Willed or Dreamer? - Spears/Braund

In the Mind's Eye - Thomas West

 

Did I mention that she's got an extremely stubborn personality!? (still driving me crazy at age 20 :tongue_smilie:)