Curious what people here think of this article -- "Homeschool Poster Mom"

[momofsbandeg]

of humor....tongue-in-cheek so to speak.

 

I don't think it was meant to be taken literal in every aspect. I think she was making the point that there are no perfect homeschooling mothers. I think she meant for it to be light and encouraging to moms who are overwhelmed and feeling like they don't match up to the "poster mom for homeschooling."

 

There are seasons (having babies, being pregnant, death in a family, moving etc.) that throw the balance out of whack. That was how I thought she meant for it to be taken.

 

Let's not "stone" one of our own....good grief.....it's hard enough as it is.

[Mimm]

I think it's an offhand remark (meant to reassure people you don't have to be perfect to do this, as everyone said) that is being blown out of proportion here. The author of the article blew off a math problem on a busy day and you think she's giving all of us a bad name and ruining her kids' academic lives? I don't buy it.

 

She said she never ever finishes a curriculum. That her ten year old schooled her younger children for months on end while she was in bed with morning sickness. Sorry, no, what I'm not buying is that this entire article was a joke or tongue in cheek. While I admire her for being honest, I would admire her more for admitting that these things are a problem and for asking advice herself on how to fix them.

 

And YES this attitude gives homeschoolers a bad thing. I think for some homeschoolers, public school gets so vilified that they think, "Anything they are doing at home is better than what they'd be doing in public school." I had someone tell me pretty much those exact words when I confessed to having a less than productive week at home. I know they meant to be encouraging but it wasn't.

 

When other parents look into homeschooling and see this attitude, they do form opinions about us based on that. How many of us have gotten comments or read articles or blog posts based on assumptions like that? Of course people think homeschoolers don't have high academic standards. Because some homeschoolers don't. And they justify it.

[Word Nerd]

 

Let's not "stone" one of our own....good grief.....it's hard enough as it is.

 

That's rather melodramatic. Who is stoning her?

[Plucky]

No, usually it is "My third grader can't write a robotic 5 paragraph essay." And people will reassure them that the WTM approach of good literature, narration, dictation and then writing will produce superior writers.

 

Yep. :D

[Rivka]

Yes, her approach is different than mine. I feel that her kids are probably falling through the cracks. But, there are kids graduating public school who cannot do sixth grade math or even read. I am not saying that two wrongs make a right, but it is annoying that extra scrutiny is placed on homeschoolers, while public schools continue to do their thing.

 

You don't see constant handwringing about the state of public education, and constant discussion about how to improve outcomes? The obsessive focus on testing? Calls for universal preschool? Debates about what is the parents' fault vs. what is the teachers' fault?

 

I don't think anyone is indifferent to the failures of the public schools. I have never heard a school board member or school principal shrug and say "learning is an individual responsibility, and as long as the kids are good people, who cares if we don't get around to teaching anything in class?" I think that the public school problem is overwhelming and that it's hard to figure out a workable solution - which is a different problem than the problem of homeschooling parents who don't get around to teaching.

 

Besides, it doesn't sound like this woman is under extra scrutiny. She's been homeschooling this way for years, with no legal or social consequences.

[elegantlion]

You know tomorrow I will forget about the post, in the scheme of my life it's not that big of a deal. However, I live in an area where homeschooling is more about how Godly you are than how academic you are. People think we're Catholic because we study Latin, who knows what they think because we study Japanese, and I know some people have avoided us because we dare discuss those raunchy civilizations of Ancient Greek and Rome. Do I really care? No. But it gets old trying to overcome those stereotypes, especially the "academics don't matter" argument.

 

No one is stoning her, we're commenting on her public post. We do that here. By tomorrow this thread will probably be buried on page four or beyond and we'll go back to the grindstone on Monday. By Monday evening they'll be something else to comment about, such is life.

[regentrude]

This is a bit off to the side of the original topic, but really? You've seen posters here say that about things like math and science?.. But I don't think I've ever heard anyone here say the same thing about the more major subjects :confused: Maybe it's because I tend to gravitate toward the more rigorous end of the discussion here?

 

 

Oh yes, really. Just a while ago there was a discussion about algebra and the opinion was voiced (by not only one person) that this was something they never needed in their lives and that they do not think it has any bearing on their lives. (I refrain from citing the poster's names on purpose because this is not about bashing individuals, but about the attitude in general)

I don't see the importance of *algebra* in life, much less algebra 2.

I don't remember anything in my algebra class that I could actually recognize as real-life math.

I heard the same things in discussions about science:

 

But on my own, just for the sake of knowing, I really have no inclination to truly understand how the body works, how antibiotics or vaccines work, or a microwave. .. Nope, I'm doing fairly well with what I do know and what I can find out if I come across something I discover I need. Maybe it's because I'm ignorant, but I really do not think physics is a requirement in life.

Seeing that I happen to use both on a daily basis in my life it is an attitude that rubs me the wrong way because it deprives their children of opportunities. As EKS so succinctly stated in a previous thread:

 

people who say they don't use the math they learned beyond a certain level (say prealgebra) in everyday life probably didn't really learn math beyond that level well enough to do so.

It does not bother me if people do not know everything. But it bothers me if they celebrate their ignorance.

[momofsbandeg]

That's rather melodramatic. Who is stoning her?

 

to tear apart another homeschooling mom, that's all.

[Aelwydd]

of humor....tongue-in-cheek so to speak.

 

I don't think it was meant to be taken literal in every aspect. I think she was making the point that there are no perfect homeschooling mothers. I think she meant for it to be light and encouraging to moms who are overwhelmed and feeling like they don't match up to the "poster mom for homeschooling."

 

There are seasons (having babies, being pregnant, death in a family, moving etc.) that throw the balance out of whack. That was how I thought she meant for it to be taken.

 

Let's not "stone" one of our own....good grief.....it's hard enough as it is.

 

She is not being "stoned." We are not criticizing her looks, her music choices, her religious beliefs, or her preference for vacation spots. We are critiquing a very few statements she made, on a public forum, having to do with home school philosophy. That is not only an appropriate use for this forum, it is eminently relevant to a board dedicated to fomenting the critical thinking process.

 

I have had to say this many times on this board, which is discouraging, considering its intent. Trying to "shame" people from engaging in discussion and analysis because it may negatively reflect upon either the home schooling community, or a particular individual, is the antithesis of critical thinking.

 

And that attitude is most assuredly not appropriate for a board dedicated to classical education, which is founded up such principles as investigation, testing, and analysis.

[kalanamak]

to tear apart another homeschooling mom, that's all.

 

I am not tearing. I am remaining alert to homeschooling trends and how homeschooling might be seen by the world. There has been nothing "personal" about this woman. People are wondering, people are discussing. Not everything that isn't a :grouphug: is a tearing apart.

[Word Nerd]

to tear apart another homeschooling mom, that's all.

 

I agree. But I do not think that anyone has done that in this thread. No one has personally attacked her. Much of the discussion hasn't even been about this specific blog post but about the trend that the post reflects.

Edited April 21, 2012 by WordGirl

[Aelwydd]

I dont think that poster meant we are actually STONING her anymore than that author meant all she can do is a devotional.

 

 

I think a lot of people use things like this to toot their own rigorous horn bc of their own insecurities.;)

 

No one has mistaken her meaning for a literal stoning. Her meaning was clear: she thinks that criticism of the blogger's statements equates personal attacks.

 

The kind that is implicit in your own judgment about folks in this thread who have expressed negative opinions about the blogger.

[regentrude]

to tear apart another homeschooling mom, that's all.

 

Nobody is tearing anyone apart. We are having a discussion about some points of a public statement about homeschooling. Anybody who does not want her opinions debated should not publish them. Anybody who does publish has to expect that some people will disagree.

I understood this place to be a discussion board. If everyone is of the same opinion, there can be no discussion.

[Jean in Newcastle]

She said she never ever finishes a curriculum. That her ten year old schooled her younger children for months on end while she was in bed with morning sickness. Sorry, no, what I'm not buying is that this entire article was a joke or tongue in cheek. While I admire her for being honest, I would admire her more for admitting that these things are a problem and for asking advice herself on how to fix them.

 

 

:iagree: I've been rather open on this board about how my chronic illness took a toll on my kid's academic progress. I've had to come here to admit my problems and ask for advice. My youngest dd and I have had to work hard to overcome some of the problems that cropped up because of my own inability to school well for a season (a long season of a couple of years). Yes, it has worked out for us but I don't think it would have if I had shrugged and not seen the problems and tried to tackle them.

 

I'm all for honesty. I'm not a robot who never has a bad day with my kids, who never has had a lack in my own understanding or that doesn't wish sometimes that I could just send them on the yellow school bus. I'm all for humor too. But as a general principle, I am more encouraged by blogs that are honest while maintaining a focus on education.

[Aelwydd]

Well my opinion isnt overwhelmingly positive but when people get all wrapped around the axel about stuff like this its usually more about them and less about the blogger.

 

That's your personal judgment, reading into what others say. Hyperbole like "get all wrapped around the axel" is not an accurate descriptor of people having a discussion on an internet board about another blogger's post. Nobody is talking about organizing protests, writing Congress, or boycotting Chef Boyardee in frenzied response.

 

I would say that the only overreaction I'm seeing is from people "bent out of shape" because anyone here dares to criticize another home schooler.

[chepyl]

Her list of what mistakes she has made is that, a list of mistakes. I have seen posts around here where parents start the year without all of their materials. Do we not all have bad days where only one subject...or no subjects get done? I know I have had those. I will not finish all of our math this year. We will work through IP and CWP until we hit our 180 days and we will stop. I dropped the curriculum that covered Latin after Christmas this year.

 

It was not a..."do this and you will be fine"...post. It was her trying to convince people that she is NOT the poster Homeschool mom. She shares nothing of her expectations for her kids, or even that she skips a whole math lesson, just that she has skipped tricky questions in math. I have skipped math problems in my first graders books...I took college level calc and stat, but there were problems that I thought were unnecessary. Many books have badly written word problems, maybe it was a bad problem and rather than spend time trying to figure put the author's intent, she just skipped it.

 

I think too much is being assumed.

 

FWIW, if I were to make a generalization (and I agree that a such a broad generalization would be unfair), I'd make the opposite one, that parents who homeschool mid-stream do so for academic reasons when schools turn out not to be what they had hoped, and that the ones who intend to homeschool the whole way through from beginning to end are more likely to be doing so for non-academic, "lifestyle" reasons or philosophies.

[Mommyfaithe]

No, it's not. I have 12 dc. That is absolutely not the attitude or approach we take to pull it off.

 

Nor do we rely on workbooks, computer-based, or other such programs as another poster said most large families she knows do. Other large families I know with 5 or more children don't either.

 

I'm not trying to get defensive. I just don't like to see these misconceptions, and I don't like blog posts that perpetuate them.

:iagree:

 

 

I do not have as many children, but still have a large family. We use some workbooks ONLY because my kids LIKE them. We are largely literature based, with me being the primary teacher of my kids....and I do not take academics NOR spirituality lightly.

 

There are many misconceptions when it comes to homeschooling. After 17 years, I have heard it all....and just shrug. I think the blogger was trying to be encouraging and humorous. She probably didn't know she would have to deal with the hive:D

 

Faithe

[chepyl]

Her list of what mistakes she has made is that, a list of mistakes. I have seen posts around here where parents start the year without all of their materials. Do we not all have bad days where only one subject...or no subjects get done? I know I have had those. I will not finish all of our math this year. We will work through IP and CWP until we hit our 180 days and we will stop. I dropped the curriculum that covered Latin after Christmas this year.

 

It was not a..."do this and you will be fine"...post. It was her trying to convince people that she is NOT the poster Homeschool mom. She shares nothing of her expectations for her kids, or even that she skips a whole math lesson, just that she has skipped tricky questions in math. I have skipped math problems in my first graders books...I took college level calc and stat, but there were problems that I thought were unnecessary. Many books have badly written word problems, maybe it was a bad problem and rather than spend time trying to figure put the author's intent, she just skipped it.

 

I think too much is being assumed.

 

FWIW, if I were to make a generalization (and I agree that a such a broad generalization would be unfair), I'd make the opposite one, that parents who homeschool mid-stream do so for academic reasons when schools turn out not to be what they had hoped, and that the ones who intend to homeschool the whole way through from beginning to end are more likely to be doing so for non-academic, "lifestyle" reasons or philosophies.

[momtoamiracle]

OT, but The Egg and I is one of my favorite books too! No one I know has ever heard of it, so I got a little thrill reading this. :tongue_smilie:

 

great book and great movie!

 

 

She also wrote her story about when she had tuberculosis, called The Plague and I.

[KungFuPanda]

 

And yes, that attitude bothers me. My BIL/SIL have eight children also. They have decided to intentionally recycle their children through eighth grade over and over till they age out (common amoungst certain anabaptists). BIL doesn't want the children knowing more than they do. s.

 

That's creepy cultish scary. Yuck

 

Yes, her approach is different than mine. I feel that her kids are probably falling through the cracks. But, there are kids graduating public school who cannot do sixth grade math or even read. I am not saying that two wrongs make a right, but it is annoying that extra scrutiny is placed on homeschoolers, while public schools continue to do their thing.

 

They MAY be unapologetically falling through the cracks. Or they may be driven enough to educate themselves in spite of their mother. It could go either way, but at least in school kids don't get the same apathetic teacher EVERY year.

 

I hope she was trying to be tongue-in-cheek about part of that. I don't feel like we've had a good day if we only accomplish prayer and devotion. :001_huh:

 

 

If she wrote that to encourage people they could homeschool, well? IDK. A wise woman once told me I never needed to tear myself down to build someone else up, that stuck with me. Besides I don't think everyone SHOULD homeschool. If people are relieved thinking they can homeschool yet don't know fractions or care to find the answer, well maybe they shouldn't homeschool.

 

I wish we had more information. Maybe she has kids who are naturally driven, so she doesn't HAVE to be on top of her game. It seems doubtful with eight children that they'd ALL be natural students.

 

I've had those days where we've accomplished only one thing, but I certainly didn't feel fine about it. I think it's misleading to imply that you can do nothing but withdraw your kids from school and everything will work itself out.

 

:iagree:

 

What irritates me most is that she seems almost proud of the fact that she is not proficient in 6th grade math. How can one be proud of ignorance?

 

I do not homeschool for relations. That's what parenting is for, and what people can accomplish just fine with children who do attend public schools. I homeschool to educate.

 

How how HOW do you homeschool that many children from the beginning and not manage to LEARN 6th grade math? I'll admit, Singapore Math 6 had me scratching my head and turning to the solutions manual more than once, but by the time I explained it to my child I had it figured out.

 

It's OK to cop out. I refused to teach past Algebra BUT Dh is a mathematician. If he wasn't, I'd outsource. The student can't be off the hook! Besides, there's a YouTube video for EVERYTHING.

 

That's what rubs me the wrong way about the op-ed. There are many people out there who don't homeschool and they somehow manage to have excellent relationships with their children and raise them in their faith.

 

 

I think I'm especially sensitive to this now that I have a child in public high school. Our family has not suffered because she's not home until 2:15 p.m.

 

I have come across a fair number of homeschoolers who would feel that it was enough, though. On another homeschooling board I used to participate on, any posts in which moms admit they aren't sure if they're doing enough academically or being responsible and consistent enough about homeschooling are dismissed outright. After all, "The worst day of homeschooling is still better than the best day at school." The individual performance of their own students is essentially considered irrelevant because some other homeschoolers' test scores exceed the average test scores of public school students.

 

 

And I do not at all buy into the "it depends why you choose to homeschool" line of thought. Every homeschooling parent should be trying to do the academic part at least as well as the public schools. If they are not willing to do the work to give their kids that quality of education as a minimum, it is educational neglect.

 

That attitude does seem a bit suspect to me. Doing nothing in this building (your house) is always better than whatever they're doing in that building down the road (local school). If your going to homeschool, then DO something. I've seen unschooling work very well, but those families were not uneducated and the experiences they had weren't accidental.

 

I have a suspicion that all this coasting on the reputations of past homeschoolers will one day come to a screeching halt. Somehow I doubt that homeschooling pioneers were the types to never finish their curriculum EVER.

 

You know tomorrow I will forget about the post, in the scheme of my life it's not that big of a deal. However, I live in an area where homeschooling is more about how Godly you are than how academic you are.

 

I have a friend who moved from an area where most homeschoolers were academic types to a place like you described. She's still twitching :001_smile:

 

 

 

I don't know. I can't get past this feeling that it's almost cruel to give new homeschoolers the impression that this is an effortless endeavor that's impossible to mess up. It absolutely IS possible to get a worse education at home than at school. It just is.

[laundrycrisis]

Her bullet list of imperfections is not qualified by "every once in a while" or any other indication that these situations are occasional or even seen as a problem. She seems to be saying that this is her normal and she is fine with it.

 

Her list of "secrets to successful homeschooling" clearly state her view that religion and relationships matter the most and academics are a very low priority:

 

"3. Relationships are not just the most important thing . . . they are the only thing The only reason I homeschool is to develop & strengthen my children’s relationship with God, with their Daddy, each other and me. At the end of the day, relationships are really the only thing that matter" ... " Therefore we “do†school all the time and on occasion we also complete lessons!" ... and following a description of non-academic goals, "anything else we accomplish is a bonus!"

 

I don't think those of us who take her to really mean all this are interpreting too literally. It's pretty clear.

[laughing lioness]

FWIW, if I were to make a generalization (and I agree that a such a broad generalization would be unfair), I'd make the opposite one, that parents who homeschool mid-stream do so for academic reasons when schools turn out not to be what they had hoped, and that the ones who intend to homeschool the whole way through from beginning to end are more likely to be doing so for non-academic, "lifestyle" reasons or philosophies.

 

I was talking about a study that I did, which including formulating a hyposthesis and testing it. As I stated, it's old material and was a small study (as opposed to a generalization). My point was that not everyone homeschools with the same intent. I don't agree with the article writer's intent. I was just making a point. I'm not defending the writer. I don't agree with her and think that her stab at encouragement is going down a slippery slope. But I'm also a bit of a libertarian and think that as parents we are entitled to educated our kids the way we see fit. I don't like a LOT of what I see in the homeschooling community but I also don't like a lot of what I see at our local schools (private and public).

 

I think we are in an educational crisis in our country and homeschooling is reflecting that just as much as government schools. Until we get a VISION for our kids and a VISION about what education is and does and a VISION for how to implement that, we'll just keep being the hamster.

 

 

However, I live in an area where homeschooling is more about how Godly you are than how academic you are. .

 

Why can't these be compatible goals? I like the concept of study as worship. How 'bout both/and instead of either/or?

Edited April 22, 2012 by laughing lioness

[Alenee]

Anybody happen to look at comment 35.1? I think everyone here is justified in their way of thinking with regard to their personal homeschool, however, I also think most of the responses are over-the-top emotional. She was clearly writing tongue-in-cheek and as I suspected, I found her kids' credentials in the comments section. There are seasons to homeschooling. I know that for the Type A personalities, that's a hard one to accept, but just because a family has some down time here and there does not mean they don't hold academics to a high standard. Relax, y'all! ;)

[Alenee]

There are a couple other reasons why her older children are in college doing quite well (other than her writing tongue-in-cheek): 1) she wasn't like this with them and only the younger children are getting the short end of the stick or 2) they self-taught.

 

The writer wasn't talking about just "some down time" or being in a certain season of life.

 

I'm not sure how evaluating a writer by what she said is emotional.

 

Many people responding to her article have taken *personal offense* to her position. That's emotional. Literary analysis includes looking at the writer's background, but even taking the writer at face value, it seems clear to me that she wasn't trying to keep up with the Joneses. I'm reminded of the cute little youtube videos characterizing the mommy wars. It's no less prevalent here. Again I say, relax y'all. :) Do what you do best and let the rest roll off your back. Quack. ;)

 

eta: Maybe I should add my own thoughts here. I do not believe what she wrote is a real window into her homeschool. Confidence and humility like that only come from those who are doing a good job. I suspect she's a great homeschooler and gave it a spin to help calm the nerves of the Uber-Type-A personalities who lie awake at night with heart palpitations because they happened to have a bad day. It's a humble article from one who's BTDT and has three successful graduates to show for it.

Edited April 22, 2012 by Alenee

[Farrar]

She obviously has a different attitude than I do and her homeschool is religious-based, which is unlike mine... but I don't see it as some great anti-intellectual horror to say that there are things more important than academics. Academics are not the most important thing in my homeschool either and I'll gladly admit it. Loving learning, finding happiness, asking questions, spending quality time together - all take precedence over math, handwriting, and so forth.

 

I think the comparison to the mommy wars is apt. And I think people have really over-criticized her here (though stoning is a bit of a harsh word). If she were a mom on this board experiencing bad morning sickness, you can bet on it that many people would encourage her to chill out, let the older kids teach the younger ones, focus on getting a few key things done and drop the rest. Yet she puts it in there and everyone is keen that she should feel guilty about it?

[Jenny in GA]

eta: Maybe I should add my own thoughts here. I do not believe what she wrote is a real window into her homeschool. Confidence and humility like that only come from those who are doing a good job. I suspect she's a great homeschooler and gave it a spin to help calm the nerves of the Uber-Type-A personalities who lie awake at night with heart palpitations because they happened to have a bad day. It's a humble article from one who's BTDT and has three successful graduates to show for it.

 

 

I guess that's kind of the issue, isn't it? I went back and read it again because so many people said she writing tongue-in-cheek, and bringing humorous exaggeration to a few rare exceptions, or a particular "season" or two, or that she doesn't mean it literally.

 

There's no way to know for sure, but even after another read or two, I don't see it that way. Especially when I look at how she ends the article.

 

Regardless ... even if I was a new homeschooler who was panicking that I was getting "behind" with my kindergartener, I don't think that I, personally, would find it encouraging. At best, I would come away with a feeling of, "Well, that's the best anyone can do, so just accept it ... but none of it matters anyway."

 

I would find it more encouraging and helpful to read about little things that make a big difference in overcoming a problem (for example, a humorous account about chaotic and stressful mornings were at her house, until she realized that sharpening several pencils the night before and putting them in a jar made it much better, etc)

 

I think one of the reasons this struck me is because, when my kids were younger, I read a lot of stuff (NOT here) about you should relax; and even a day when the kids have free time is still learning and be considered a "school day"; and what can you expect when you have a toddler; public school barely spends any time learning anyway, etc.

 

Looking back, I wish I had read more things that encouraged me to strive and improve (and given some details about how), instead of just saying, "Ha ha, we never get anything done either, and our house is a mess too! But who cares?"

[Carrie12345]

I think one of the reasons this struck me is because, when my kids were younger, I read a lot of stuff (NOT here) about you should relax; and even a day when the kids have free time is still learning and be considered a "school day"; and what can you expect when you have a toddler; public school barely spends any time learning anyway, etc.

 

Looking back, I wish I had read more things that encouraged me to strive and improve (and given some details about how), instead of just saying, "Ha ha, we never get anything done either, and our house is a mess too! But who cares?"

 

I fully admit to being an extremely (ahem) "relaxed homeschooler" when my kids are young. I've planned school around births. Mud sometimes counts as schoolwork (even for the olders!) My house IS a mess, lol. I've thrown my hands up and said "Just go do something semi-educational!" And I have at least one child who hates academics.

 

I would never use those things as an overview of my normal homeschooling because they're not. I could use them as examples of things that happen and work out fine. I could use them to lighten a mood. I could use them to encourage someone through a rough patch. But I would feel terrible if I left someone with the idea that this is a "normal" way to operate a homeschool long-term.

 

Of course, MY head has a difficult time wrapping itself around the idea that "family" and "academics" have to be separated and prioritized. Yes, my homeschooling began FOR academics. But it has transformed our family *at the same time*, and has maintained that strength even with one back in school. The idea that you can't have strong enough family or religious ties AND strong academics is absurd, imo.

[KirstenH]

I agree. Such anti-intellectualism is pervasive through much of society. It's ironic to me that at a time when college attendance is at an all-time high, the numbers of informed, knowledgeable, educated persons I actually ever encounter is staggeringly few.

 

A-freaking-men.

[Mynyel]

I had a similar discussion with dh. He was hemming and hawing me teaching the kids intense grammar.

 

By intense I mean FLL 3 and 4 gammar.:glare: To him that is intense grammar. He says he hardly remembers it.

 

I pointed out that I *wish* I had learned all that and remembered. I wouldn't have been as afraid of taking English classes and writing papers if I had.

[kalanamak]

Loving learning, finding happiness, asking questions, spending quality time together - all take precedence over math, handwriting, and so forth.

 

That is what FAMILY is for, and it can be done without homeschooling. School to me is .... school, and "homeschool" should be more than just doing what every family should be doing. Perhaps it all comes down to semantics.

[Chris in VA]

Ack! I have no dishwasher and many children. I wonder if my kids see ME as part Percheron.

 

I am now seriously disturbed.

 

:lol::lol:

 

Kal's comment will be my new FB status. :D

[FriedClams]

I didn't read all the replies, so someone said this more eloquently before me, I'm sure...

 

Spectrum A: relationships/faith

 

Spectrum B: academics

 

Which one will cause more long term damage to my kids if I completely ball it up - spectrum a.

 

Would I rather my kids be brilliant academically and unattached to family? Or work a blue collar job and be in loving relationships with their parents and siblings? I'd pick the second, in a minute. And with capability - Academics can always be caught up on. I know that's heresy here, but they can.

 

In our home - we work on both, but I completely "get" why some seem to focus on one more than the other. And since it's their decision - I think they should be free to make it.

[laundrycrisis]

I didn't read all the replies, so someone said this more eloquently before me, I'm sure...

 

Spectrum A: relationships/faith

 

Spectrum B: academics

 

Which one will cause more long term damage to my kids if I completely ball it up - spectrum a.

 

Would I rather my kids be brilliant academically and unattached to family? Or work a blue collar job and be in loving relationships with their parents and siblings? I'd pick the second, in a minute. And with capability - Academics can always be caught up on. I know that's heresy here, but they can.

 

In our home - we work on both, but I completely "get" why some seem to focus on one more than the other. And since it's their decision - I think they should be free to make it.

 

 

Relationships/faith (if that is important to someone) are done if a family chooses to focus on them whether or not the family chooses to homeschool. So while it may be incorporated into a family's particular style of homeschooling, these areas are not specifically homeschooling.

 

The choice to homeschool means that the school part of life, the academic part, that is legally required, is not done in a school, but at home. For someone to say that they homeschool but basically put academics - the school stuff - as a last priority, because they decide that really the academics don't matter much anyway - is basically saying "we keep our kids home from school but don't care much about meeting the legal academic requirements." In a state that has laws that require homeschoolers to provide an education that is at a minimum equivalent to the public schools, doing this is completely abusing the legal freedom to homeschool.

 

With more people choosing to do this and call it homeschooling, and this "choice" becoming more acceptable among homeschoolers (and I do believe that is happening), and people posting on their blogs about how they make academics their last priority in their homeschool, so the whole world can find out about it...I fear it is going to bite us all in the rear eventually in the form of more regulations, more hoops to jump through, and an even lower general opinion of homeschooling.

[Crimson Wife]

And why on earth did she let her 10-yr old teach?? Where were the older children? What 10-yr old has the maturity and knowledge to effectively teach the subjects needed??

 

I have used my 9 y.o. to teach her younger brother his AAS or Right Start math lesson from time to time when I'm busy taking care of some pressing issue. Those programs are scripted and basically anybody who can read the TM can do it with him. I wouldn't do it for months on end, but a day here and a day there is no big deal.

[Plucky]

With more people choosing to do this and call it homeschooling, and this "choice" becoming more acceptable among homeschoolers (and I do believe that is happening)...

 

Do you know much about homeschooling history? If anything I think people are becoming more academically focused. More relaxed homeschooling or unschooling has fallen out of favor. It used to be THE way to homeschool from what I've read about homeschooling's history.

[Veritaserum]

Relationships/faith (if that is important to someone) are done if a family chooses to focus on them whether or not the family chooses to homeschool. So while it may be incorporated into a family's particular style of homeschooling, these areas are not specifically homeschooling.

 

The choice to homeschool means that the school part of life, the academic part, that is legally required, is not done in a school, but at home. For someone to say that they homeschool but basically put academics - the school stuff - as a last priority, because they decide that really the academics don't matter much anyway - is basically saying "we keep our kids home from school but don't care much about meeting the legal academic requirements." In a state that has laws that require homeschoolers to provide an education that is at a minimum equivalent to the public schools, doing this is completely abusing the legal freedom to homeschool.

 

With more people choosing to do this and call it homeschooling, and this "choice" becoming more acceptable among homeschoolers (and I do believe that is happening), and people posting on their blogs about how they make academics their last priority in their homeschool, so the whole world can find out about it...I fear it is going to bite us all in the rear eventually in the form of more regulations, more hoops to jump through, and an even lower general opinion of homeschooling.

 

:iagree: I am a fan of the "police ourselves" concept. I'd rather homeschoolers encourage/put pressure on other homeschoolers to step it up over having more laws.

 

Everyone has bad days sometimes. Sometimes stuff happens that bumps school for the day. That's life. However, if school is regularly last on the priority list, that's a problem. I cringe when I read Facebook status updates from some of my TJEd friends. Stuff like "for school today we had devotional, worked in the garden, and read a story" when they have children older than my oldest.

 

I have five children and contended with morning sickness followed by 6 weeks of bed rest due to pregnancy complications. I still did school. It was in my bed, but it happened. My children stepped it up in the housework department instead of taking over each other's educations.

 

Homeschooling is my job. I can't call in sick every day and expect things to go well anyway.

[mommaduck]

yes and blaming people like her for the laws in PA is just laughable. I think the anabaptist comment was really interesting bc the supreme ct upheld the amish right to pull their kids in gr 8 bc "too much education is bad for salvation". I think the amish were homeschooling before any of us and probably that may be in part why PA has those laws. Maybe?

 

:chillpill:

I said "Anabaptists" because I was not referring to that particular group of Amish and that particular belief. I was referring to a couple of other specific groups that shall remain nameless.

[laundrycrisis]

Do you know much about homeschooling history? If anything I think people are becoming more academically focused. More relaxed homeschooling or unschooling has fallen out of favor. It used to be THE way to homeschool from what I've read about homeschooling's history.

 

I have read quite a bit about homeschooling history over the last six years. Most recently I read this one:

Kingdom of Children: Culture and Controversy in the Homeschooling Movement (Princeton Studies in Cultural Sociology) by Mitchell L. Stevens (Mar 24, 2003)

 

This book points out that there has always been a division between the more academic homeschoolers and the life-learning homeschoolers.

 

My own ideas of what is in favor/out of favor are based on my own experiences of contact with homeschoolers both IRL and online, which I began six years ago. About 95% of the homeschoolers I have met IRL are either unschooling or extremely relaxed about academics. The only place online I find support for academically-focused homeschooling that is not super relaxed is here. And things seem to have relaxed around here too.

[Plucky]

I have read quite a bit about homeschooling history over the last six years. Most recently I read this one:

Kingdom of Children: Culture and Controversy in the Homeschooling Movement (Princeton Studies in Cultural Sociology) by Mitchell L. Stevens (Mar 24, 2003)

 

This book points out that there has always been a division between the more academic homeschoolers and the life-learning homeschoolers.

 

My own ideas of what is in favor/out of favor are based on my own experiences of contact with homeschoolers both IRL and online, which I began six years ago. About 95% of the homeschoolers I have met IRL are either unschooling or extremely relaxed about academics. The only place online I find support for academically-focused homeschooling that is not super relaxed is here. And things seem to have relaxed around here too.

 

I don't agree with the bolded. I know that I personally try to help others see that they don't have to feel they must keep up with the Classical Homeschooling Joneses here. It feels like such a competition, and can stress a mom out where she quits. I have regrets myself in pushing my firstborn too hard and too fast when he was little. I think that sharing experiences are good. Why do some people who clamor for "rigor" seem to get so upset about everyone else on the planet? I don't have the energy to police other people or parents. I'm busy homeschooling and raising my kids. :001_smile:

[chepyl]

She wasn't saying she made any mistakes: she was specifically giving them an example of a "normal" homeschooling family.

 

If they were indeed mistakes, she obviously never made it a point to learn from them and change.

 

 

 

And why on earth did she let her 10-yr old teach?? Where were the older children? What 10-yr old has the maturity and knowledge to effectively teach the subjects needed??

 

 

 

I really don't like the article...or the point-of-view. Either that is her literal life or she needs to choose her words a lot more carefully.

 

She did not outright say it was mistakes, she said of was a list of reasons why she was not the perfect Homeschool mom. Saying she is not perfect is another way of sayong she has made mistakes. She was not saying to do those things.

 

I have used my 9 y.o. to teach her younger brother his AAS or Right Start math lesson from time to time when I'm busy taking care of some pressing issue. Those programs are scripted and basically anybody who can read the TM can do it with him. I wouldn't do it for months on end, but a day here and a day there is no big deal.

 

My dd was not learning her letters, I let her 6 year old brother practice them with her amd count with her....now she knows jer letters and does not skip numbers while counting. I still work with her, but big brother was more influential.

[laundrycrisis]

You guys must just about plotz at the unschoolers.;) Yet some of them so successfully unschool that their kids trot off to top unis.

 

 

Some do - great for them ! I also personally know of some who have had their child end up having to take remedial courses in the 3Rs at 18 or 19 just to be allowed into the local community college, because they were unable to pass an admission exam.

 

When I was just beginning to dig into homeschooling, I went out and met a lot of people and had a lot of conversations. Over and over and over I heard, "don't worry - there is no way a kid is going to reach 18 and not have learned to read, write and do math well enough to get along, as long as you provide an enriching environment. They will be interested enough at some point to learn it, and then they will learn it quickly and easily, because they are interested."

 

I hung around with these people long enough for the shine to wear off and to begin to observe the older school-aged kids who didn't have basic skills down and had never done any focused academic work. I came to my own conclusions that academic work is important after all, some really do reach graduation age without competence in the basics, and that doing focused academic work still allows plenty of time for life learning to happen as well.

[melissel]

I have used my 9 y.o. to teach her younger brother his AAS or Right Start math lesson from time to time when I'm busy taking care of some pressing issue. Those programs are scripted and basically anybody who can read the TM can do it with him. I wouldn't do it for months on end, but a day here and a day there is no big deal.

 

Heh! My DD9 is largely responsible for my DD6 learning to read. Now, that's partly a personality thing (DD6 is a contrarian), but DD9 did an amazing and very patient job with teaching her what she did. I totally believe the right 10-year-old could teach younger kids if necessary.

[melissel]

Regentrude is not the only one who's noticed such attitudes expressed on this board. I've seen it frequently opined among some hs'ers here that academics in general are considered secondary to other agenda.

 

Oh yes, really.

 

Oh gosh. I just really have not seen this here! I must not be watching the right threads, I guess. Thanks for clarifying!

[TranquilMind]

Someone on another list posted this article.

 

Let me first say that anyone with eight children is certainly a better person than me.

 

However ... the thought I had when reading the article is, "Doesn't it seem like the homeschool community, too often, excuses and even encourages mediocrity and low standards?"

 

The idea of a homeschooling parent not understanding their child's math lesson and literally shrugging it off, with, "Whatever, it hasn't hurt me that I never learned it!" kinda made me cringe.

 

Please don't misunderstand. I'm not saying I'm perfect or that I've got everything all figured out.

 

But it does seem like a semi-common thing for homeschooling parents to "encourage" each other by saying things like:

1) Lessons aren't really that important

2) Don't worry how far you get in the book

3) Well, I never learned American History/diagrammed a sentence/etc, and it hasn't hurt me any!

 

And I wonder if that sometimes hurts people, rather than helps them.

 

But maybe I'm completely wrong. And maybe when you have eight kids, that's the way it has to be.

 

Any thoughts?

Well, if you have ever had a kid in school, you realize that they NEVER finish the book. They barely do any lessons at all.

 

So whatever you do at home, assuming an honest, disciplined effort, will outpace the local public school, most likely.

 

That's my take on those kind of comments. Of course, someone could actually do nothing, but I think those people are rare. You ought to be smart enough to farm out things you can't do well if you are homeschooling, and I think most people are.

 

Look at the people on this board; most of them are pretty intelligent.

[Veritaserum]

When I was just beginning to dig into homeschooling, I went out and met a lot of people and had a lot of conversations. Over and over and over I heard, "don't worry - there is no way a kid is going to reach 18 and not have learned to read, write and do math well enough to get along, as long as you provide an enriching environment. They will be interested enough at some point to learn it, and then they will learn it quickly and easily, because they are interested."

 

I hung around with these people long enough for the shine to wear off and to begin to observe the older school-aged kids who didn't have basic skills down and had never done any focused academic work. I came to my own conclusions that academic work is important after all, some really do reach graduation age without competence in the basics, and that doing focused academic work still allows plenty of time for life learning to happen as well.

 

Yep. I started with TJEd because that's what all my friends were/are doing. The idea that your kid will learn everything when s/he is interested is pushed hard. Your kid doesn't know how to read or do basic math at age 12? Don't worry, she'll catch up quickly. Uh....Condensing 12-13 years into six probably isn't the most likely way to ensure mastery in key subjects while also gaining familiarity with many others.

 

I eventually realized that I am not willing to risk that my children would never learn key things.

[NASDAQ]

I started with TJEd because that's what all my friends were/are doing. The idea that your kid will learn everything when s/he is interested is pushed hard. Your kid doesn't know how to read or do basic math at age 12? Don't worry, she'll catch up quickly. Uh....Condensing 12-13 years into six probably isn't the most likely way to ensure mastery in key subjects while also gaining familiarity with many others.

 

I first learned of TJED through the Headgates people, who are honestly kind of frightening.

 

This is from Headgates:

 

"When our children come out of scholar phase, having mentored with Shakespeare, Montesquieu, Newton, and Locke, speaking multiple languages and commanding the arts of rhetoric, logic and reason, no one will know or care that they did not write beyond their own name until they were nine or ten."

 

Her oldest appears to be nine at the time of writing.

 

I have yet to hear of anyone who went through TJED and learned Calculus from Newton, speaks multiple languages, or otherwise has a demanding education that can be objectively measured.

[Sneezyone]

Well, if you have ever had a kid in school, you realize that they NEVER finish the book. They barely do any lessons at all.

 

So whatever you do at home, assuming an honest, disciplined effort, will outpace the local public school, most likely.

 

That's my take on those kind of comments. Of course, someone could actually do nothing, but I think those people are rare. You ought to be smart enough to farm out things you can't do well if you are homeschooling, and I think most people are.

 

Look at the people on this board; most of them are pretty intelligent.

 

Where do people get these ideas? My kid is finishing books all the time...in school...and many if not most of those intelligent people on this board are the products of public education. All schools (home or otherwise) are not failing.

[Veritaserum]

I first learned of TJED through the Headgates people, who are honestly kind of frightening.

 

This is from Headgates:

 

"When our children come out of scholar phase, having mentored with Shakespeare, Montesquieu, Newton, and Locke, speaking multiple languages and commanding the arts of rhetoric, logic and reason, no one will know or care that they did not write beyond their own name until they were nine or ten."

 

Her oldest appears to be nine at the time of writing.

 

I have yet to hear of anyone who went through TJED and learned Calculus from Newton, speaks multiple languages, or otherwise has a demanding education that can be objectively measured.

 

To the bolded: so typical.

 

I haven't met any TJEders who have accomplished those things, either. And I laugh every time I remember that DeMille advocates learning Spanish by picking up Don Quixote and a Spanish-English dictionary. :lol:

[momtoamiracle]

Where do people get these ideas? My kid is finishing books all the time...in school...and many if not most of those intelligent people on this board are the products of public education. All schools (home or otherwise) are not failing.

 

 

 

when I was in school we never finished a text book. Ever, in the 12 years I went to school.

[Crimson Wife]

Where do people get these ideas? My kid is finishing books all the time...in school...and many if not most of those intelligent people on this board are the products of public education. All schools (home or otherwise) are not failing.

 

I went to a public school that consistently ranks in the top 10% of schools in a state that is considered #1 in the nation for its schools (MA). We never, *EVER* finished all the chapters in our textbooks.

 

Our family HS year-round so we always finish our books. However, it may take more than 9 months for us to do so. Right Start level B in particular seems to take a long time (13 mos. for my oldest, and it looks like it will be 12 mos. for my 2nd).