Thank you SWB (Brave Writer Content)

[sagira]

Puhleeze. I'm weary of too much of people's beliefs creeping into homeschooling conventions. Why can't we all get along?

 

I am curious about the kerfluffle, though. Did I spell that right? New word for moi.

[KungFuPanda]

I LOVE Bravewriter! I bought the book (binder? What do we call it?) about 5-6 years ago. I used it with the Arrow and the Writers Jungle website to create a wonderful writing atmosphere for my daughter. We loved it. She really transitioned I to a writer that year. I <3 Tuesday Teatimes and Friday Free Writes :001_smile:

[Halcyon]

Ridiculous.

 

That said, i love Writers Jungle and will now definitely be ordering the Arrow (had been thinking about it, but this puts me over the edge). Julie Bogart is inspiring regardless of religion! My son adores freewriting a la Bravewriter and the approach has made writing in our hmeschool a true pleasure. This makes me want to support Julie Bogart all the more.

[Laughingmommy]

SWB really is like a totally cool, uber-awesome mother hen in the homeschooling community, isn't she? In the throes of doubt and resistance in planning for next year, I opened up WTM today, and even though I'm not using most resources she cites, a calm, grounded feeling still descended upon me, her common sense reasoning ringing in my ears. And this forum? How cool is this forum?

[Janie Grace]

What I think is great is all the new business Julie B. is probably getting from this ridiculous move by the GHC! Take that, haters. :D

[Melabella]

SWB really is like a totally cool, uber-awesome mother hen in the homeschooling community, isn't she? In the throes of doubt and resistance in planning for next year, I opened up WTM today, and even though I'm not using most resources she cites, a calm, grounded feeling still descended upon me, her common sense reasoning ringing in my ears. And this forum? How cool is this forum?

 

:iagree:Amen.

[LisaKinVA]

good lord. Can someone please make an awesome, inclusive-simply-homeschooling conference?????

 

I gave Susan my contact information last year...my mom and I talked to her about doing one (we've pulled together large events before...and I've worked with conventions in the arts & crafts industry for a little while). Maybe she lost it?

 

Anyhow, I know of at least 2 willing, able people :D

[funschooler5]

good lord. Can someone please make an awesome, inclusive-simply-homeschooling conference?????

 

Yes, please!!!

[Tammyla]

Yesterday, I was stunned reading my Brave Writer e-mail update from Julie:confused:.

 

We're already Brave Writer users and fans here, but I'll be ordering something very soon.

 

Way to go Susan!

Edited April 19, 2012 by Tammyla

[PeterPan]

My stinkin' lands. Now we REALLY know we want these people at GHC running all the conventions in the country and driving the rest out of business. So why don't they filter out MCT and people with red hair and secular engineer math curriculum writers who espouse liberal views on child-rearing as well?!?! Man, a litmus test beyond what most sane people at the convention THEMSELVES are using!

[posybuddy]

good lord. Can someone please make an awesome, inclusive-simply-homeschooling conference?????

 

 

Oh, imagine... a conference with Susan, AND Julie, AND MCT, AND Jim Weiss, AND Peter Enns, and...

 

*swoon*:001_wub:

[MelAR05]

Oh, imagine... a conference with Susan, AND Julie, AND MCT, AND Jim Weiss, AND Peter Enns, and...

 

*swoon*:001_wub:

 

:iagree:

[EJCMom]

I'm curious if the GHC powers that be have a reaction to SWB's invitation.

 

I wondered that myself. I wonder if SWB will get in trouble for having her at the booth. I hope not. Either way, inviting her was a very nice thing to do.

[AvasMom]

I'm curious if the GHC powers that be have a reaction to SWB's invitation.

 

I thought about that as well. There could very well be backlash and they may not invite her next year but one would assume they know that would drop next year's attendance down to about 50 people. They have enough haters in the Ham groupies without adding the wrath of SWB groupies by messing with her. That being said, I'm sharpening up my stinger just in case.

[AvasMom]

Oh, imagine... a conference with Susan, AND Julie, AND MCT, AND Jim Weiss, AND Peter Enns, and...

 

*swoon*:001_wub:

 

:iagree:

[radiobrain]

I am going to play devil's advocate here, sorry, it is in my nature.

 

First of all, I adore both SWB and Julie, and I totally support both of them. I also have had contact with the people who run the convention as they called me to ask for secular/gifted vendors they should invite (as I am pretty vocal in this area lobyig for them). They invited MCT & Julie in the first place due to customers asking. They happened to think MCT was awesome and wanted some more people like them (MCT & RFWP) to invite. I gave them a long list and a few were there the next year.

 

In my conversation, this was pre-kerfuffle BTW, he explained how he really wanted to make the convention about HSing, and make it where a lot of different HSers could find something... but still keep their "base" happy.

 

Part of me thinks this is a concerted effort on someone's part to screw these people and destroy their business. How better do this than get not only the YE hammy people upset, but then also get the people on the other side upset. It just seems too perfect. First divide the YE Christian community (some people here in Ohio have always been mad at them for starting these and "killing" their state convention... which was narrow anyway and they have always been angry about it, which I think is silly), then piss off the secular/classical community. Poof! They will have such bad feelings all around that they won't be able to run them anymore. The result will be the same.

 

I don't know, I just feel like there is more to the story than meets the eye, and more than has been told to Julie even. I wish I knew the real back story, but part of me is still skeptical about the whole thing (not about it happening, just about the circumstances and motivations. As usual, I think they handled it badly, but I think that is because they are human and have not hired a good PR person. I cannot imagine how much s%^$$t they get from all sides all the time, and still attempting to put these things together, fork out all the $$ in advance to reserve these places, arrange all the stuff. It makes my brain hurt just thinking about it.

 

They are really stuck between a rock and a hard place, and I feel sorry for them, if you want to know the truth. It seems like a hard line to skate.

 

I will be so happy to see Julie & SWB this weekend, and any of you coming, and all my favorite secular vendors.

 

<<I also would hate it if this then screws all the vendors. SWB included. If attendance drops, the wwhole thing will go in the crapper and no one but KH will be happy. >>

 

Ok, that's my measly two cents! Off to take a shower and get ready to go to the convention!;)

[radiobrain]

I would like to apologize for the rambliness of my above post, I should probably edit it, but there would be too much work to do. Better just apologize and leave it.

 

If you can glean what I am trying to say from it, you get a gold star. If you are just confused, I'm sorry... it makes sense in my head. ;)

[Haiku]

I had already decided not to attend this year's Midwest conference because I can't stand how they try to ram conservative politics down my throat at a homeschool conference. This incident makes me doubly glad they aren't getting a cent of my money.

 

Tara

[Mrs Mungo]

I gave Susan my contact information last year...my mom and I talked to her about doing one (we've pulled together large events before...and I've worked with conventions in the arts & crafts industry for a little while). Maybe she lost it?

 

Anyhow, I know of at least 2 willing, able people :D

 

We are talking about an extremely busy woman here. She is finishing her next book (which, some of us need, asap, lol!!!), she is taking care of her kids and parents, she is running a business, she is giving talks at conferences. She is only one woman. Do I think an inclusive conference is a great idea? Absolutely. I am just not sure we should all be looking to SWB to make it happen, no matter how much she might like to see it.

 

In my conversation, this was pre-kerfuffle BTW, he explained how he really wanted to make the convention about HSing, and make it where a lot of different HSers could find something... but still keep their "base" happy.

 

My problem with this? Extremely conservative homeschoolers are not necessarily their "base." Those people were already happy with the faith-based conferences led by groups with SOF and with links to HSLDA. Why go after those consumers? Go after the rest of us! The more "liberal" (a term I am using extremely loosely) Christians, the secular homeschoolers, the hippies who were just as instrumental in the beginnings of homeshooling. It is bad business to try to steal away/keep one small group happy when there is a large group of consumers not being served!

 

So, they eliminate secular publishers and speakers, and attendance is down. That should be serving as an object lesson to them. They got so big by offering options outside of the norm. The extreme right *is not their base*.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Mrs Mungo

[applesing]

I just e-mailed GHC about this. I cannot imagine why anyone's personal views should prevent him or her from selling a writing curriculum and speaking at a homeschooling convention. I heard Julie Bogart's talks in Memphis last year and left completely inspired. She was one of the best speakers I have ever heard, in any venue.

[radiobrain]

I just e-mailed GHC about this. I cannot imagine why anyone's personal views should prevent him or her from selling a writing curriculum and speaking at a homeschooling convention. I heard Julie Bogart's talks in Memphis last year and left completely inspired. She was one of the best speakers I have ever heard, in any venue.

:iagree: and I think this is a VERY good thing to do.

 

(I don't know how to multi-quote) Mrs. Mungo... See, I don't get this. I have been to these since the beginning, and choose to ignore what isn't relevant to me and focus on what is. I have never felt like I am having anything shoved at me, though I can see where someone might think that if they are looking for it. ANd they have MORE secular vendors this year than ever before, so it is odd that you would make that statement. Seriously, I broke it down and it is around 1/3 secular/neutral.

 

I think we are all being played, that's what I am trying to say. Julie was the unfortunate target for whatever reason.

 

I would not put anything past that HAmmbone, and I think it is his personal mission to try to take these down. That is just my personal opinion, but it really feels like a big smear to me. Coupled with those "new, "real" conventions" and all that jazz. It just all smells bad. And while I agree that they should focus on "the rest of us", they are still devout Christians, who are YErs, and they want to do this for themselves too. I think that since they are totally reactionary because of last year, they would be easily manipulated, IMHO.

 

Again, Julie was the unfortunate target. She is also from around here... which in itself makes my radar go off. It is all wrong, no matter how you slice it.

 

Does any of this make any sense?

 

I will get off the computer until later....like tomorrow morning!

[ChrissySC]

Someone catch me up please. I really like BraveWriter and SWB methods. :-/ It is your responsibility to buzz straight to my ear. :D LOL I am reading the thread now. Page 2 ...

[elegantlion]

:iagree: and I think this is a VERY good thing to do.

 

(I don't know how to multi-quote) Mrs. Mungo... See, I don't get this. I have been to these since the beginning, and choose to ignore what isn't relevant to me and focus on what is. I have never felt like I am having anything shoved at me, though I can see where someone might think that if they are looking for it. ANd they have MORE secular vendors this year than ever before, so it is odd that you would make that statement. Seriously, I broke it down and it is around 1/3 secular/neutral.

 

I think we are all being played, that's what I am trying to say. Julie was the unfortunate target for whatever reason.

 

I would not put anything past that HAmmbone, and I think it is his personal mission to try to take these down. That is just my personal opinion, but it really feels like a big smear to me. Coupled with those "new, "real" conventions" and all that jazz. It just all smells bad. And while I agree that they should focus on "the rest of us", they are still devout Christians, who are YErs, and they want to do this for themselves too. I think that since they are totally reactionary because of last year, they would be easily manipulated, IMHO.

 

Again, Julie was the unfortunate target. She is also from around here... which in itself makes my radar go off. It is all wrong, no matter how you slice it.

 

Does any of this make any sense?

 

I will get off the computer until later....like tomorrow morning!

 

It makes sense, I understand what you are saying, but how? Is there someone like Wormtongue speaking to the GHC organizers ear? Was her non invitation an oversite? Is she the one that if they disinvite the "other side" will back off?

 

It's all starting to sound like Hunger Games, the Homeschool version. :glare:

[ChrissySC]

OK, so this is actually back to the problems of last year ...

 

I have to say that while attendance is down, the solution is not hammer them for inclusivity. The solution is to adapt and to provide a more relaxed convention setting and a set of speakers that broaden the outlooks and reflections of beliefs.

 

I am very conservative, but I use a good portion of secular resources. However, I do not attend convetions. This is why there are DVDs and YouTube, IMO. That "convention mess" has become quite the nuisance. I like the new online homschool conention myself ... I want to see it grow!

 

I would even pay to subscribe to it.

[Farrar]

It seems obvious to me that there's a certain segment of the homeschool community that is threatened by the rise of secular homeschoolers. If big conventions are willing to welcome people outside a certain type of Christianity (even Christians - just not "their" Christians) then that's threatening to them. It threatens the way in which some of the larger curriculum producers have been able to push their worldview through curricula and conventions onto people who didn't necessarily believe it but wanted to homeschool and didn't know there were other options. It threatens their view of homeschooling as an all fundamentalist affair.

 

I admit that when that thread came up saying attendance is down, I was thrilled. I hope it does show them that we think for ourselves and want to hear speakers that also think for themselves and buy curricula that doesn't push a single worldview onto subjects (like writing instruction) where it doesn't have to be. After all, we're capable of including religious instruction alongside other subjects in our own way.

 

I like that SWB stood up for Julie Bogart... and there may be more to this story than meets the eye... but I wish even more that people like SWB and MCT and other people producing curricula that isn't inherently tied to a singleminded religious view would stand up even more and not do conferences where this stuff is politicized at all.

[Saille]

Sent a letter:

 

To Whom it May Concern,

 

I'm writing to express my worry over what I see as a narrowing of the focus of the Cincinnati Homeschool Convention. In the past, I have come all the way from upstate New York to attend the Convention. Our family is relocating to Indiana, and you can imagine how excited we were to know we'd be so much closer.

 

Then I learned that Julie Bogart of Bravewriter has not been invited back this year. I was very sorry to hear it. I've attended her presentations and purchased CDs in previous years, and spent much time looking over her materials in the vendor hall. I homeschool three children, and my benchmark for curricular choice is excellence, which I define as a profound grasp of the material, and a talent for transmitting skill and passion for the subject to students. Curricula I define as excellent include Michael Clay Thompson's Language Arts curriculum, Catherine Drown's Lively Latin, Art of Problem Solving's math programs, and Susan Wise Bauer's Well-Trained Mind materials. When I attend a GHC Convention, I require intellectual breadth and depth if I'm going to be inspired and spend my money. The narrower your focus becomes, the less likely I am to attend, and the less likely I am to recommend your conventions to other homeschoolers.

 

You say in your guidelines that you "disavow groupthink", that you "welcome diversity of opinion", and that:

 

"Our speakers are invited guests and are free to present their subject matter as clearly and cogently as they are able. In so doing, they may offer opinion, philosophy or conviction that differs greatly from that of another."

 

However, you appear to be limiting your pool of speakers quite a bit, if Julie Bogart is on the chopping block. The more you do this, the less intellectual discourse will actually occur.

 

When I consider fuel prices, it is certainly more cost-effective to mail-order my curricula than to drive to Cincinnati and purchase them there. I go to the Cincinnati Homeschool Convention to learn new things, and to be inspired. A narrow focus is unlikely draw me, or many of my friends, to your event.

 

Sincerely,

Sarah Cannon.

[Blueridge]

I am feeling almost heartbroken about the fast changes I am seeing in homeschooling today. I remember getting my first ad for the GHC, and seeing the dynamic *mega speakers* they were having. I thought I had died and gone to heaven. But when we as adults can't always get along, and egos get involved, and lines begin to be drawn, all the fun gets taken out. I can see this rolling into a stupid avalanche and we, the homeschooler/consumer will be left with nothing. And since 'no man is an island', I sure wish everybody could just get along.

[LisaKinVA]

Part of me thinks this is a concerted effort on someone's part to screw these people and destroy their business. How better do this than get not only the YE hammy people upset, but then also get the people on the other side upset. It just seems too perfect. First divide the YE Christian community (some people here in Ohio have always been mad at them for starting these and "killing" their state convention... which was narrow anyway and they have always been angry about it, which I think is silly), then piss off the secular/classical community. Poof! They will have such bad feelings all around that they won't be able to run them anymore. The result will be the same.

 

I kind of doubt this...but I wouldn't put it past someone on the committee to either act alone, or think if they take a strong "stand," God will bless them. I've heard THAT one a lot. Making a decision regarding a business without even looking at the make-up of their attendees (or asking attendees), and assuming that if they "do" what they "feel" is "right" God will bless them.

 

We are talking about an extremely busy woman here. She is finishing her next book (which, some of us need, asap, lol!!!), she is taking care of her kids and parents, she is running a business, she is giving talks at conferences. She is only one woman. Do I think an inclusive conference is a great idea? Absolutely. I am just not sure we should all be looking to SWB to make it happen, no matter how much she might like to see it.

 

I know she is busy, a lot has happened since last year in her family, etc. -- but FTR, she asked me for my contact information. We just made the offer to do the organizing, if it was needed. I do have some experience with this stuff, just in a different industry. My mom does as well (again, different industry). But, there is one thing I *do* know, a convention like this doesn't happen simply because someone wishes it to be, especially when there are other conventions already occurring. It will take an introduction -- from someone who is from that industry, and already has a reputation, is considered trustworthy, etc., and a contact list for an group of "outsiders" to put it together (unless said group of outsiders is personally willing and able to take the financial steps to do everything without commitments from anyone -- and that's not me or my mom ;))

 

Anyhow, there is a definite need. I don't think anyone here doubts that. But, we'd still be competing against well known conventions -- and someone would be "going down." Usually that's the "new guy" -- unless enough vendors choose the "new one" over the "old one," from the get-go, and the "new one" has enough foot traffic to make a real difference in the attendance of the "old one" -- which would encourage more vendors to go to the "new one."

 

I've been in this position before -- it is a very difficult chicken-egg scenario. Homeschooler's won't go, because their aren't enough vendors, vendors won't sign up, because you don't have access to enough homeschoolers. In this case, I think we can overcome the "access" to homeschoolers, if we get enough vendors. But you're going to need more than SWB, MCT/RFWP, Bravewriter, on the list -- so it really comes down to who THEY know, and can influence -- or who people (here) know, and can influence -- and have enough support -- from their customers, and local homeschool communities -- to make it happen.

[Mom0012]

Hm. I wonder why your convention attendance is down. Maybe because you stopped supporting my views? Therefore, you lost me as a consumer. Ken Ham-types only make up a small portion of homeschoolers, AND you already lost THEM! DURRR!!!

 

:iagree:

 

Lisa

[LisaKinVA]

I can see this rolling into a stupid avalanche and we, the homeschooler/consumer will be left with nothing. And since 'no man is an island', I sure wish everybody could just get along.

 

The us vs. them mentality is inculcated into certain groups that have been major forces in the homeschool community for years. This is just the "next" area to be "attacked." There are a lot of sheeple out there, who don't realize they are being sheeple. It sounds good, they sound so godly. People are blinded...and then they are blind-sided. They have no incentive to "just get along."

 

I've heard it before -- I warned some others about it -- no one believed me, until it was too late. Those that really cared had invested everything into building something, then had no choice but to leave. The people they had worked with were forced to choose nothing, or something they didn't like as much -- they chose to hold their nose and do the something.

 

Here in VA, HEAV is pretty much the same way. There are people who LOVE it, and a bunch of people who hold their nose and go. But, they lack other options. There was another option, but loss of venue eliminated it (I'm not sure if they have resolved that issue). There was a 3rd option, but it was too far -- and like that chicken-egg scenario -- not enough there for me to make the trip.

 

It is a very difficult road to hoe.

[justamouse]

I want to Pin her products but she has no pictures up there!

[Haiku]

In my conversation, this was pre-kerfuffle BTW, he explained how he really wanted to make the convention about HSing, and make it where a lot of different HSers could find something... but still keep their "base" happy.

 

I think they have totally failed at this. The convention keeps moving more and more toward a lifestyle and worldview conference, not a homeschooling conference. If you allow vendors whose only product is politics (and I don't mean homeschool products I don't agree with, I mean the political booths they have had), you can't reasonably claim that you are trying to make the convention about homeschooling.

 

Tara

[Mothersweets]

I'm not sure if this link will work: http://app.streamsend.com/ss/1/OKm3/tq8wtgrg3w

 

Oh, good grief. Can't we all just get along?

[LisaKinVA]

Oh, good grief. Can't we all just get along?

 

Unfortunately, no. Groups who believe like Ham, take great pride in their lines of demarcation. Anyone who disagrees with the is a heretic -- and you don't compromise or associate with heretics. These "leaders" have an almost cult-like following. There is no agree to disagree. It is black or white.

[PeterPan]

Unfortunately, no. Groups who believe like Ham, take great pride in their lines of demarcation. Anyone who disagrees with the is a heretic -- and you don't compromise or associate with heretics. These "leaders" have an almost cult-like following. There is no agree to disagree. It is black or white.

 

Sorry, but this is a little rediculous. I agree with Ken Ham on an awful lot, but I think what GHC did is totally preposterous. You can't have some single man censoring and deciding what huge regions of the country are able see or have access to. The power the GHC man has, unchecked seemingly by any sane oversight, is just rediculous. It results in these impulsive, odd decisions that don't make sense by ANYONE'S standards. It has nothing to do with Ken Ham.

 

I think it's *fabulous* that the other convention did well in South Carolina. I think there needs to be competition and diversity. Too much control by one man is not good.

[Colleen]

Julie Bogart is inspiring regardless of religion.

Or because of, some might say.;)

 

SWB really is like a totally cool, uber-awesome mother hen in the homeschooling community, isn't she?

Make that "sister hen".:D

 

Anyhow, there is a definite need. I don't think anyone here doubts that.

I dunno. As someone who has never been to a homeschooling convention, I wouldn't say there's a "need" for any particular kind of gathering.

 

(D)o you think it was the "poetry teatime" that they frowned on?

No.

 

Again, Julie was the unfortunate target.

Oh, I dunno ~ it may very well result in increased sales.:)

[Mrs Mungo]

(I don't know how to multi-quote) Mrs. Mungo... See, I don't get this. I have been to these since the beginning, and choose to ignore what isn't relevant to me and focus on what is. I have never felt like I am having anything shoved at me, though I can see where someone might think that if they are looking for it. ANd they have MORE secular vendors this year than ever before, so it is odd that you would make that statement. Seriously, I broke it down and it is around 1/3 secular/neutral.

 

I wasn't talking about vendors; I was talking about speakers. There were (IMO) fewer secular/neutral/whatever you want to call it *speakers* this year than last year, at least in SC.

 

I think we are all being played, that's what I am trying to say. Julie was the unfortunate target for whatever reason.

 

I would not put anything past that HAmmbone, and I think it is his personal mission to try to take these down. That is just my personal opinion, but it really feels like a big smear to me. Coupled with those "new, "real" conventions" and all that jazz. It just all smells bad. And while I agree that they should focus on "the rest of us", they are still devout Christians, who are YErs, and they want to do this for themselves too. I think that since they are totally reactionary because of last year, they would be easily manipulated, IMHO.

 

I don't necessarily disagree. I'm a Christian too. I'm not in any way suggesting that they should be anti-Christian. I'm just saying that *from a business perspective* it behooves them to include a variety of viewpoints.

 

 

Edited out deleted post.

 

I have to say that while attendance is down, the solution is not hammer them for inclusivity. The solution is to adapt and to provide a more relaxed convention setting and a set of speakers that broaden the outlooks and reflections of beliefs.

 

I think those of us here were encourage inclusiveness for the very reasons that you gave. So, I agree. :)

 

It seems obvious to me that there's a certain segment of the homeschool community that is threatened by the rise of secular homeschoolers. If big conventions are willing to welcome people outside a certain type of Christianity (even Christians - just not "their" Christians) then that's threatening to them. It threatens the way in which some of the larger curriculum producers have been able to push their worldview through curricula and conventions onto people who didn't necessarily believe it but wanted to homeschool and didn't know there were other options. It threatens their view of homeschooling as an all fundamentalist affair.

 

I admit that when that thread came up saying attendance is down, I was thrilled. I hope it does show them that we think for ourselves and want to hear speakers that also think for themselves and buy curricula that doesn't push a single worldview onto subjects (like writing instruction) where it doesn't have to be. After all, we're capable of including religious instruction alongside other subjects in our own way.

 

I like that SWB stood up for Julie Bogart... and there may be more to this story than meets the eye... but I wish even more that people like SWB and MCT and other people producing curricula that isn't inherently tied to a singleminded religious view would stand up even more and not do conferences where this stuff is politicized at all.

 

I agree on all counts.

 

I know she is busy, a lot has happened since last year in her family, etc. -- but FTR, she asked me for my contact information. We just made the offer to do the organizing, if it was needed. I do have some experience with this stuff, just in a different industry. My mom does as well (again, different industry). But, there is one thing I *do* know, a convention like this doesn't happen simply because someone wishes it to be, especially when there are other conventions already occurring. It will take an introduction -- from someone who is from that industry, and already has a reputation, is considered trustworthy, etc., and a contact list for an group of "outsiders" to put it together (unless said group of outsiders is personally willing and able to take the financial steps to do everything without commitments from anyone -- and that's not me or my mom ;))

 

Anyhow, there is a definite need. I don't think anyone here doubts that. But, we'd still be competing against well known conventions -- and someone would be "going down." Usually that's the "new guy" -- unless enough vendors choose the "new one" over the "old one," from the get-go, and the "new one" has enough foot traffic to make a real difference in the attendance of the "old one" -- which would encourage more vendors to go to the "new one."

 

I've been in this position before -- it is a very difficult chicken-egg scenario. Homeschooler's won't go, because their aren't enough vendors, vendors won't sign up, because you don't have access to enough homeschoolers. In this case, I think we can overcome the "access" to homeschoolers, if we get enough vendors. But you're going to need more than SWB, MCT/RFWP, Bravewriter, on the list -- so it really comes down to who THEY know, and can influence -- or who people (here) know, and can influence -- and have enough support -- from their customers, and local homeschool communities -- to make it happen.

 

It is tough, and you're right that it would take support from many not-so-conservative vendors/speakers.

 

 

I think it's *fabulous* that the other convention did well in South Carolina. I think there needs to be competition and diversity. Too much control by one man is not good.

 

Are you serious? You think we have *diversity* because there are TWO Young Earth Creationist Conservative Christian Politics conventions to choose from? :confused:

Edited April 19, 2012 by Mrs Mungo

[Tutor]

Hmmm... this attitude may explain why there were so many empty booths at the Mid-South Convention last weekend. There were some companies I wanted to visit, too, that were notably absent (like Peace Hill Press and Veritas Press). I've always enjoyed the lift I get from attending a large conference and getting the chance to see products in person before buying them, but it looks like this is going to become less of a reality if these types of shenanigans keep up. Sigh.

[LisaKinVA]

Sorry, but this is a little rediculous. I agree with Ken Ham on an awful lot, but I think what GHC did is totally preposterous. You can't have some single man censoring and deciding what huge regions of the country are able see or have access to. The power the GHC man has, unchecked seemingly by any sane oversight, is just rediculous. It results in these impulsive, odd decisions that don't make sense by ANYONE'S standards. It has nothing to do with Ken Ham

 

I didn't say the issue with Julie had anything to do with Ken Ham -- but Ham is well known for being pretty bombastic in his dealings with people he doesn't agree with (he does not believe in agreeing to disagree). He is not the only one, either. I meant that as an example of how many people think. This extends to my own family members who, if you aren't YE, pray for your salvation, because you are obviously not a Christian, and may possibly cut off any association to protect their family from heresy. There is a certain pride by these camps of people in the lines of demarcation they create. You can read it in their writings, and hear it from their pulpits. It is a very Pharisaical attitude, but they don't see it that way.

 

I don't know who the GHC man is, but usually large conventions are run by numerous people. I do know HEAV (here in VA) has one person in charge of the vendors, but she has to pass potential (and unknown) vendors through a committee of sorts. We had to jump through all kinds of hoops to be a vendor there...and we were selling arts & crafts supplies :tongue_smilie:. I did teach a class, and we were invited back -- so I guess I passed muster. SWB is not allowed to present at HEAV any more -- most likely due to similar things like the kerfluffle of 2011. There are many speakers who aren't invited back for those very same reasons. They aren't the right kind of "Christian." They don't toe the "approved" line, and are therefore heretics the community must be shielded from.

 

If "one person" at GHC is making these types of decisions -- he has a "god complex" not unlike others I've run into in other dealings with homeschool groups/associations I've had dealings with.

 

Simply because one may agree with some stands one like Ham takes, does not automatically place one into the same category on all issues -- but for many sheeple, all Ham (and those like him) has to do is say "this is bad, we need to avoid X, petition Y and tell them either X goes, or you won't" and their people will take up their cause without any further thought. Not everyone, but there are usually enough.

[Happy2BaMom]

Unfortunately, no. Groups who believe like Ham, take great pride in their lines of demarcation. Anyone who disagrees with the is a heretic -- and you don't compromise or associate with heretics. These "leaders" have an almost cult-like following. There is no agree to disagree. It is black or white.

 

:iagree:

 

What's so interesting, is that this attitude and behavior is so unlike Jesus. He sought out (and hung out with) the ones "outside the fold", who were considered unclean and undesirable by the religious authorities for not following the dictates and rules. It's just bizarre.

 

It all has to do with control. Every vendor, every speaker must pass a series of litmus tests. If not, they are not allowed to speak or display. It's an attempt to silence anyone who thinks differently. (hmmmm, reminds me of several countries in the Middle East). It's just sad.

[8circles]

Well, WTG SWB! Class. act.

 

I've never been to a HS convention & I despise this kind of ugly behavior of exclusion. But on the up-side I finally looked at the Bravewriter website & it's now on my short-list! Looks great!

[Colleen in NS]

I'm not sure if this link will work: http://app.streamsend.com/ss/1/OKm3/tq8wtgrg3w

 

Give me a break. Seriously?

 

Way to go, Susan!! I hope you get lots of business, and that Julie gets lots of new customers.

 

That's what this political bs makes people miss out on.

 

You know, from what I've seen, the difference in attitude between these two general types of groups is amazing. A few years ago, I was shocked to discover on these forums that a lady I had known back when I was a teen in the 80s in a small conservative church was now a very popular convention speaker and curriculum provider. So I sent her an e-mail to say hello and let her know that I was married and homeschooling, too, and to catch her up on my life of the past 20 or so years. I got back this: "Nice to hear from you. Tell your Mom hello." (my Mom taught her and other ladies there how to teach their little kids to read) Now, I've received unsolicited letters like that myself (I used to travel as a missionary), and was always very excited to hear from people from the past, and I'd respond to them a little more fully than she did to mine. I'll bet anything that when people e-mail her with questions about homeschooling, she writes a little more than that. I realized from this lady's lack of response, it was a reflection of the attitude that was in that church back then, and I still see this attitude now. Even a few months ago, I discovered on Facebook another lady (who is only three years older than I am) who was also part of that 80s church, who is now a mother of many, a book vendor, and homeschool curriculum provider. She will be at the Hartford GHC. I befriended her on FB, and when I posted "Hi! So you DO remember me!" (my maiden name is on there) And she wrote, "Uh, well, I have to look through pictures, but I'm not sure I do remember you..." Um, I was one of only THREE teenagers (and I was an older teen and very noticeable because everyone else was either a little kid or a young adult - also my family was the only single-parent family - we stood out like sore thumbs there) in that church, the church was small and everyone at least knew who each other was, my mother was friends with her mother, and her older sister made herself my "big sister." I could not believe she didn't remember. When I gave her some memories as reminders, she never replied. Yet she posted on and on about all sorts of religious and political and homeschooling things going on in America. Again, attitude.

 

I'm extremely thankful for these forums where I've been able to see that there are Christians in the world who are not exclusive and snobby like that.

 

Do a search for "kerfuffle." ;)

 

And kerfluffle (slight spelling change). You can search for tags of the same names, too.

 

That being said, I'm sharpening up my stinger just in case.

 

:lol::lol::lol:

 

...I meant that as an example of how many people think. ...There is a certain pride by these camps of people in the lines of demarcation they create. You can read it in their writings, and hear it from their pulpits. It is a very Pharisaical attitude, but they don't see it that way.

 

...

 

...but for many sheeple, all Ham (and those like him) has to do is say "this is bad, we need to avoid X, petition Y and tell them either X goes, or you won't" and their people will take up their cause without any further thought. Not everyone, but there are usually enough.

 

Steve Maxwell of Managers of Their Homes, etc. books comes to mind here, too. I bought MOTH years ago and tried to participate on their MomsBoard before it shut down, but I got really tired of trying to figure out how to word posts so they wouldn't be edited too much. You couldn't even mention in passing if you had some type of part-time work as a SAHM, homeschooling mother. Yet his own wife does income-producing writing while being the SAHM homeschooler. He wrote a post the other day on their website, and a self-proclaimed atheist's comment was actually published. I about fell over. Steve commented back to the atheist, saying he was sorry his post had seemed judgmental, because he hadn't meant it to be. I wrote a comment pointing out exactly why it sounded judgmental, but it didn't get published. Probably because I said I'd been a Christian for over 30 years - maybe I don't fit his criteria for being a Christian - maybe I should have been submissive and gotten my husband to write it, lol. Anyway, the post is incredibly judgmental towards other Christians, as are many of his other posts. It's people like this who make me more determined to teach my kids HOW TO THINK for themselves.

 

Anyway, this topic seems to have come up every spring for the past few years - last year, it prompted me to start a local homeschooling Moms support group for those using WTM/classical methods - I had several Moms tell me it was a relief that it wasn't a faith-based group, but rather academic-oriented. I don't even know the faith beliefs of most of the members, nor do I care if they aren't Christians - we just enjoy eating, laughing, and talking about teaching. And I have been thinking about going to the Hartford GHC convention (JUST found out an old friend of mine in Massachusetts is going - she signed up just moments ago! Haven't seen her since 1993 - who knew we'd both end up homeschooling - would love to see her....oh what to do....) because I thought it was going to be more inclusive, but now I don't know...and what if SWB got disinvited - she's one of the reasons I'd go, lol!

 

ETA: Just sent a message to GHC expressing my opinion about them not inviting Julie Bogart this year.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Colleen in NS

[Farrar]

Unfortunately, no. Groups who believe like Ham, take great pride in their lines of demarcation. Anyone who disagrees with the is a heretic -- and you don't compromise or associate with heretics. These "leaders" have an almost cult-like following. There is no agree to disagree. It is black or white.

 

:iagree:

 

For me, and I think for many, if not most, of the people on this board, be they Christian or not, one of the central purposes of homeschooling is to teach our children to think for themselves and turn a critical eye on the world around them. This black and white, my way or the highway attitude is antithetical to that. Thus it doesn't really surprise me that there will always be factions of some sort.

[Melissa in NC]

I gave Susan my contact information last year...my mom and I talked to her about doing one (we've pulled together large events before...and I've worked with conventions in the arts & crafts industry for a little while). Maybe she lost it?

 

Anyhow, I know of at least 2 willing, able people :D

 

 

 

I am 1.5 hours away from you so count me in.

[8circles]

http://www.susanwisebauer.com/blog/publicity/one-more-update-about-future-plans/

]

I didn't say the issue with Julie had anything to do with Ken Ham -- but Ham is well known for being pretty bombastic in his dealings with people he doesn't agree with (he does not believe in agreeing to disagree). He is not the only one, either. I meant that as an example of how many people think. This extends to my own family members who, if you aren't YE, pray for your salvation, because you are obviously not a Christian, and may possibly cut off any association to protect their family from heresy. There is a certain pride by these camps of people in the lines of demarcation they create. You can read it in their writings, and hear it from their pulpits. It is a very Pharisaical attitude, but they don't see it that way.

 

I don't know who the GHC man is, but usually large conventions are run by numerous people. I do know HEAV (here in VA) has one person in charge of the vendors, but she has to pass potential (and unknown) vendors through a committee of sorts. We had to jump through all kinds of hoops to be a vendor there...and we were selling arts & crafts supplies :tongue_smilie:. I did teach a class, and we were invited back -- so I guess I passed muster. SWB is not allowed to present at HEAV any more -- most likely due to similar things like the kerfluffle of 2011. There are many speakers who aren't invited back for those very same reasons. They aren't the right kind of "Christian." They don't toe the "approved" line, and are therefore heretics the community must be shielded from.

 

If "one person" at GHC is making these types of decisions -- he has a "god complex" not unlike others I've run into in other dealings with homeschool groups/associations I've had dealings with.

 

Simply because one may agree with some stands one like Ham takes, does not automatically place one into the same category on all issues -- but for many sheeple, all Ham (and those like him) has to do is say "this is bad, we need to avoid X, petition Y and tell them either X goes, or you won't" and their people will take up their cause without any further thought. Not everyone, but there are usually enough.

[Mommy22alyns]

I think they have totally failed at this. The convention keeps moving more and more toward a lifestyle and worldview conference, not a homeschooling conference. If you allow vendors whose only product is politics (and I don't mean homeschool products I don't agree with, I mean the political booths they have had), you can't reasonably claim that you are trying to make the convention about homeschooling.

 

Tara

 

 

Exactly, exactly, exactly. That's why I was put off of GHC. It didn't seem like enough actual academic content.

 

SWB, class act. Makes me proud to be a member of the Hive!

[Mommy22alyns]

 

 

 

Steve Maxwell of Managers of Their Homes, etc. books comes to mind here, too. I bought MOTH years ago and tried to participate on their MomsBoard before it shut down, but I got really tired of trying to figure out how to word posts so they wouldn't be edited too much. You couldn't even mention in passing if you had some type of part-time work as a SAHM, homeschooling mother. Yet his own wife does income-producing writing while being the SAHM homeschooler. He wrote a post the other day on their website, and a self-proclaimed atheist's comment was actually published. I about fell over. Steve commented back to the atheist, saying he was sorry his post had seemed judgmental, because he hadn't meant it to be. I wrote a comment pointing out exactly why it sounded judgmental, but it didn't get published. Probably because I said I'd been a Christian for over 30 years - maybe I don't fit his criteria for being a Christian - maybe I should have been submissive and gotten my husband to write it, lol. Anyway, the post is incredibly judgmental towards other Christians, as are many of his other posts. It's people like this who make me more determined to teach my kids HOW TO THINK for themselves.

 

 

WOW! You could knock me over with a feather. :001_huh:

[Colleen in NS]

WOW! You could knock me over with a feather. :001_huh:

 

No kidding. And the thing is, he never did edit his post. I wonder what the atheist commenter thinks about that. I'm curious as to what she thought was judgmental - was it the same items that I pointed out? I'll never know. :)

 

I wonder how the conference is going...

[SunnyDays]

Ugh. This gets ridiculous. I'm not near a GHC, but we have a medium-sized state convention. I went last year as a first year homeschooler, and it was helpful. I'll probably go this year, because I'm not near anything else. But ours seems to be more, as someone else put it, a lifestyle-worldview conference. Most vendors are Christian, and all the speakers tend toward worldview topics rather than academic. It seems like there are tracks for beginning how-to's, and family/worldview type topics. Not a lot in between. I need to find something else...

 

So sorry for what they're putting JB through... I have looked at BW, and we're not quite "there" yet but I think I'll more seriously consider it for down the road!!

[Jim]

Is this all just a follow-up to what happened in Greeville, SC last year?

 

http://www.susanwisebauer.com/blog/the-raving-writer/life-on-the-border/