You know, I read in a poem later in the collection ("System") end rhymes "good" and "food" ("And every day that I've been good,/I get an orange after food."). I think it's the Scottish accent! Because these two words do rhyme in a Scottish accent where "good" is pronounced with the oo sound. I just wish I could listen to a recording of these poems read with Stevenson's accent (Scottish). Pei

Thank you!!

Do "go" and "do" rhyme? Like maybe if you recite a poem in a Scottish accent? The second stanza: All by myself I have to go, With none to tell me what to do-- All alone beside the streams And up the mountainsides of dreams. Thanks, Pei

VaKim, Thank you, thank you, thank you!! Pei

I can't figure out what "by" repeated in the second stanza means, like just definition-wise. How do I find out? Where do I go? Who do I ask? Thanks, Pei

What's CWH? Pei

The Big Outage happened during my most intense bout of homeschool planning ever. Fortunately, there were cached threads I found just by googling. And the inability to procrastinate reading the K-8 Curriculum board allowed me to spend a couple of sleepless nights searching the depths of my homeschooling soul and facing the most tedious parts of curriculum planning. If this forum was down for an extra day, I maybe would've even photocopied and typed up assignment sheets! Pei

YAY!!! Great job! for organizing before, and for finding the organized lists! Hooray!!

What's a good place to look for these? I see they're not at Rainbow Resources. I see they ARE at Amazon... anywhere else? Thanks, Pei

My 4-year-old is fascinated with her big sister's PLATO Science curriculum. Is there anything more suitable for younger kids? Even late elementary would be alright. Thanks! Pei

Such a GREAT idea! Thank you!!! Pei

I think we homeschooling Moms (and non-homeschooling or non-Mom people) are often so hard on ourselves. I have a feeling that in the long run, this decision won't matter much. So, for now, why not just do whatever feels righter to you. ;) I feel for ya, Pei

I'm not sure anymore about homeschooling labels. Your experience sounds similar to mine, though. I just call it life. FWIW, I have learned that with my kids, it's been very useful to read curricula and learn them myself. So much "teaching" has to happen on the fly for me. Sort of a follow-the-flow-of-learning kind of thing. We own so many curricula, and I love them all. None works very well for my kids, but they work wonders for my pedagogical thinking. Just something to keep in mind.

So, I looked up "play" in the dictionary, and true enough, nothing about fun or pleasure. Some about sexual innuendos, though. Interesting.... And nothing about amusing, either, though lots about amusement, as in recreation or sports. (though "playful" seems different) I might have to change my casual usage of "play." How could I ever say now casually, "oh, they're playing outside"?

Ahhh.... I see. Thanks for explaining this. I knew there was something I wasn't quite getting. So this is like a technical definition of "play," as in "play" in child development terms. Gosh, then I guess my kids "play" very little after a certain age! I can see how "play" learning would be incredibly labor-intensive. So, probably I wouldn't say we do play-based learning since we don't use games to learn anything. We sort of learn as a consequence of living. "Life-based learning"? And I don't know that it's accurate to say we into "child-led" 'cause I still supply limits and resources and guidance, so it's like "co-directed." Perhaps rather than call ourselves radical unschoolers, I can start to say we are "life-based, parent-and-child-co-directed, academic-resource-rich, interest-driven learners"... something like that? ;) My kids hate that kind of "play learning" - they always find it patronizing and condescending. They like their academics deeply-meaningful and non-nonsense. "Play learning" always seems so weird to me, but maybe because I find academics inherently satisfying and pleasurable.

I'm really curious about this notion of a dichotomy between play and study. I suppose I am definitely in the "intellectual play and work/study go together inextricably" camp. Honestly, I'm having a tough time figuring out (I don't mean here, I mean in my life in general) if some people are "destined" for academic study and if some people just don't benefit from it. If some people "naturally" have inner drive and others don't. And how much of these things are inherent and how much circumstantial. I ask in earnest when I ask what "play" means to people. I'm starting to get that people don't all mean the same thing! But I still only understand what I think "play" means. For me, "play" and "work" are synonymous, and they are both synonymous to "life." Maybe I need to go find my husband and badger him until he gives me an adequate explanation of what other people mean when they say "play." :confused:

Oh.... I think I might have to steal these phrases too! Especially "That's good enough." I dare say we NEVER say that in this family! Well, that's just gotta change right now! :D Thanks, Beth in SW! and Jen!

Does anyone know if the assessment includes any attention to learning disorders?

My daughter is enjoying Irasshai, http://www.gpb.org/irasshai. The videos are kind of goofy, and the tone is real casual. We love it! My daughter also loves watching anime in Japanese with English subtitles. Sure, they end up learning really.... interesting words.... but my daughter really did pick up some of the language. I'm guessing she loves to draw manga? If not, she might like to look into it. My daughter had a lull in her interest in art until she started drawing manga starting a year ago. Recently, she started doing Artistic Pursuits, and I was really amazed what she could do. It's like the manga drawing did things to her brain so that even though she did no "real" art training, she took to "real" art right away. My kids don't struggle with reading comprehension, though. However, I did. I'm an immigrant, so everyone assumed it was an issue with language. Nope. I coped well 'cause I'm really smart. But I never really figured out how to read "at my level" correctly. I remember doing 4th grade reading comprehension test things with my kids and not being able to figure out the answers. But here's the thing. I'm brilliant at reading. I almost have a good Ph.D. in literature. I discovered recently that I HAVE to read intense texts. Anything a little less challenging, and my brain just won't focus. I have no idea if your daughter has that problem, or if her reading comprehension problems warrant some kind of intervention. Good luck finding the answers! :001_smile:

I understand better now that the "play" in "playing around with a concept" isn't the "play" you're talking about. So what is? I really do want to know. I know someone cited: "1. To occupy oneself in amusement, sport, or other recreation" as a possible definition. I wonder if there's a distinction between study and play. Is there? I mean, sure, there's work in play and play in work. Like, you can play computer games at the office, and you can "study" the rules of a board game. But are they just inherently different? I'm really curious. I mean, can chores ever be play (to put the notion of work in terms I can relate to)? I mean, you can talk all about laundry sorting fun and all kinds of cleaning games. And I think they can be fun. But we're still trying to make something inherently "work" MORE play, or LESS work. It's hard for me to imagine laundry as play.... though I will allow that it might be possible for somebody else. Maybe work and play exist on a continuum? Or maybe they're two different and separate quantities in each situation.

Iucounu, I suspect I misunderstand your definition of play then. I understand play to mean using something to have fun, like playing with a doll or playing with a concept, or play-acting. It sounds like a much more broad definition than yours. I really like that you're separating love of learning and interest-led learning from unschooling. Unschoolers hardly corner the market on those things! In fact, it's highly-disputable what allows someone to follow their interests. I think structure is necessary for creativity. You need a structure to resist, co-opt, explore, play with, and manipulate. I guess maybe I include "work" in my notion of "play." I mean, even if you're playing with blocks, it's WORK! :D For me, play had always been a lot of work. I was very result-driven (i.e. knitting to make the thing, studying to get the grade, playing blocks with the kids so they grow their brains). Just recently, I made a New Year's resolution "to not try." And since then, I've been slowly discovering that I like to play. But I'm not doing anything differently. It's just that everything I do now seems fun and exciting.

I feel for your friend. I never went for the violent media. I did relent with anime for an 11-year-old, though we watched it together (very enjoyable!). Those "radical unschoolers" your friend found sound awful! I had disapproving looks thrown my way when my oldest started showing interest in reading at 2. Not unschoolers, though, WALDORF! But is is not really Waldorf. Like all communities, you can understand the philosophy and apply it to reality, or you can take the philosophy and take how people adopt it as dogma. Homeschooling can be so hard: finding community, figuring out your parenting/schooling/life philosophy, applying it to actual kids and situations. I'm glad for your friend, that she took cues from her kids in terms of what they needed. Video games 6 hours a day is usually not fun or play. For me, anyway... I find it's a lot of work! It's what I do when I'm exhausted, though it does nothing to help me rest. It does help me stop and reassess what I'm doing in my life, the choices I'm making. You know what it reminds me of? SCHOOL! The tedium, the suffering, the constant jumping through hoops, the arbitrary grading.... :lol:

I like to say, "oh, it hurts so good!" We find it amusing that doing fun things can be so painful, whether it's muscle-ache or brain-drain. It's all good. :chillpill:

I must be crazy! I LOVED proving the quadratic equation. One of the (very few) highlights of a sucky (for me) high school math education. :lol: Seriously, though. You all don't love learning? Photosynthesis, literary analysis, trigonometric proofs? Not fun, not play? I guess I'm a nerd leading a team of nerd kids! Yikes! I don't know that unschooling would work for everyone. I'm sure it wouldn't work for all parents and educators. But the assertion that it works for no one seems so misguided. Even if it has never worked for a single person, it might still work for me. Isn't that how innovation happens? If all those extraordinary people stayed true to those ideas of smallness: "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" and "why aspire to what has never been done before".... what an uninspired world we would find ourselves in! I think the model of schooling is sometimes so wonderful. I've had inspiring teachers, and I've seen inspiring homeschooling parents. I've also seen awful teachers and parents. I mean, of course, awful in my eyes. I mean, honestly, all these statements about how learning is not play, that learning is antithetical to play.... that to me is awful parenting and teaching. How can one hope to inspire a lifelong love of learning when you begin with the assumption that it's an obligation to be suffered? Gosh! :001_huh: Of course, whoever is pitting learning against playing probably doesn't mean what I'm making it out to seem. I emphasize how my kids use a structure while they learn whatever they're playing with (I suppose you could call it intellectual or academic play, though for us, it's just play). Yet, someone else might emphasize how their kids learn within a structure while enjoying some degree of enjoyment. In reality, these two models could be the same thing, just differently identified. I wonder how you all "play." What do you do for play? For the longest time, I tried to "play" with my kids and I had a tough time. Over a decade later now, I accept how playing with toys is not my forte, though I still keep at it. I've learned that exploring the world with humility and intellect is the "funnest" play of all. What are your concepts of play? Maybe that's the holdup with understanding unschooling...?

Well, I'm an immigrant myself, as is my husband, and we unschool. I haven't experience what I would call extreme poverty, but my Mom often peeled "bad parts" of vegetables off at the cash register (so it wouldn't be weighed) only to put it all back in the bag to cook at home later. :tongue_smilie: Is it wrong to be a product of prosperity? I'm not sure. I know that I complain sometimes about how so-and-so feels SOOOOO entitled. But then I gotta think, aren't we privileged as well? What motivates my desire to criticize or look down upon someone else's sense of entitlement? I'm not totally sure. I do know this, though. Entitlement and victimhood are flip sides of the same coin. They both come from a place of powerlessness and lack of self-esteem. Rather than use one's accomplishments to define one's self, an entitled person uses their privilege. Even if they profess and believe themselves to love it, inside, there is a hollowness. Or not... I am only conjecturing based on my own self-examination. I guess for me, though, I've had the privilege of attending prestigious learning institutions, and I can, with minimal reservation, bear witness to my own experiences of intellectual joy. I let my kids know: these were my trials, these were my shortcomings, these were my strengths, these were my goals, these were my desires, these were my dreams. And I ask them, what path shall you take? They are still young (almost 12 and 10, 4, 2), so they haven't "rebelled" against my life's experience. And I don't know that they will. I haven't tried to impose my experience on them. I wait with baited breath to see what amazing things they will one day create. They might win Nobel Prizes, they might display art in galleries, they might be hobos living in remote woods. I don't know, but I know whatever they choose to do, I will be equally amazed. I see in them divinity, and as creatures with spiritual purpose, what is there to judge? The only thing I will not tolerate is their not processing their experiences. That is the only regret I would never be able to live down, that I fail to instill in them the desire to be mindful and conscientious. For my kids, formal education is very important. For them. They ask for it, I simply supply. I am grateful that their world views align with mine. They don't have to, though. It's just practical that my kids are greatly gravitated towards intellectual studies, 'cause I'm pretty much a moron when it comes to everything else. If one aspired to be a personal organizer or a sports star.... well, I might have to outsource the parenting and schooling!!! :lol: I think it's a great privilege to live in a time of prosperity (for us, not in the world everywhere). I would feel uncomfortable if my kids used that privilege and abused it. Yet, at the same time, I would feel uncomfortable if my kids did not use that privilege of having many options. That's like throwing away a spiritual gift. Of course, Buddha (Siddhartha) renounced his worldly abundance, and that seems to be awesome too. But I think I have the responsibility to explore what can be explored with privilege and prosperity, to the best of my abilities (which is somewhat limited because of previous times of less prosperity). My husband and I talk about this a lot. We are naturally very fearful and negative, having been raised that way. But that is not our children's past, at least not the main portion of their past and identity. We hope our kids will learn from our stories and opinions and perspectives. We hope they will grow solidity in their own perspectives. I used to lament, for many years, how my kids will never be able to relate to me. They'll never get that steely core that I got from striving for survival. Well, years later, as it turns out, they didn't need that. They're developing steely cores from other trials and tribulations that come up in their own lives. And boy, can our takes differ sometimes! In the process, I've learned to enjoy prosperity more: I've gone hog-wild with curriculum. With art supplies. With outdoor toys. With organizational purchases. I'm doing totally impractical things like sketching, notebooking, printing in color (!!!), knitting, learning, and just enjoying what a non-poverty-stricken mindset can feel like. I think it's no less a challenge than feeling poor, mentally that is, obviously physically it's far worse to be poor. My apologies for the long post, this discussion has been so thought-provoking for me! Thanks everyone! :grouphug: