So, was I mean or unreasonable?

[Ester Maria]

You are not being mean and you are not being unreasonable, but I want to stand up for those of us who are more flexible with rules in general. It may seem rude, disorganized and unprofessional to most Americans, but really, many people (and entire cultures) function the way to interpret rules not as fixed absolutes, but as general guidelines, especially for something not very formal. I would honestly not see a big deal for those few days of difference. I would have an issue with consistent not showing up for events, but a few days of flexibility about payment would be totally fine with me.

 

I am like that with most things. I am okay with (reasonable) tardiness, I am okay with "10 page essays" which are 8 or 12 pages long (because the length in my view is a general guideline, not something fixed in stone), I am okay with about a week of flexibility for payment after the official deadline, etc. Just a different view of it - I think these are small stuff which should remain small stuff and not be a cause of frictions.

[bkpan]

That's what I'm saying! Our group policy page, which everyone has to read and agree to to join, clearly states when dues need to be received by. I don't expect that to be right at the top of peoples' memory banks though, so I started sending out reminders on January 1st.

 

I sent out a reminder 1/1, 1/16, 1/31, 2/15, and then another one to this particular woman on 2/23 saying I haven't heard from you yet and haven't received your payment, please be advised it is due in one week, please make arrangements to get it to me on or before 3/1- she never responded to ANY of them.

 

Then today, the day before the dues are due, she RSVP'd for this thing on the 5th and said in her RSVP: "I'll come, that way I can pay my dues too... lol"

 

Sigh. She's one of the ones that was a no show for that library tour I was so embarrassed about, when most people canceled within the last couple of days and only four families were left, and her (and one other mom) never showed up. When I called her to see if she was coming, because I had these librarians standing there waiting, she was like, "Oh, we don't feel well, so we're not going to come." And I had said, "Okay, well next time can you change your RSVP or call to let somebody know, because we were standing here waiting for you," and she was like, "oh, okay."

 

At home, I sent out an email to the group to this effect, of honoring their RSVP's or changing them if they couldn't go, because in that particular case I would have rescheduled the tour, and then she went and did it AGAIN at the next event she signed up for. Then she signed up for a class at my husband's shop, he had supplies ready for X number of kids, we delayed starting to give everyone a chance to get there and not miss anything, and AGAIN she never showed up, with the four kids she had signed up. I emailed her and was like you can't keep doing this, I've talked to you about it and you did it a couple of times since etc etc- she never answered.

 

Now she's signed up for this, but am I depending on her to show up, dues in hand? Not really. I'd rather she just pay her dues on time if she expects me to keep her in this group. It already says in our group policy that too many no shows may result in removal from the group. I've already said in my emails that non payment of dues on time can result in removal from group. Stuff like this is just really frustrating to me as a group organizer.

 

ETA: You guys have given me something to think about for the future though, some incentive of having members get a discount for paying early, and/or having people have to pay a reinstatement fee plus dues if they get kicked out for non-payment and need to rejoin, or giving a small discount to continuing members or something, I'm going to put some thought into that stuff!

 

That really changes the picture for me. Initially, I would have been one of the ones to show quite a bit of grace and accept the dues late (especially since in another post you mentioned that they are not really due till the 31st, right?)

 

However, what you describe here is a pattern of insensitivity to the group as a whole, and I think that I would not bend the rule again with maybe with an explanation detailing the repeated examples of her disrespect to the group.

 

There will always be two groups of people... those that adhere to most rules and deadlines like they are laws, and those that treat most rules and deadlines as recommendations, lol. I think that it is a personality issue that deserves some grace at both ends, but not to the degree that allows people to abuse others.

 

Kim

[NanceXToo]

You know it's one thing if you make arrangements prior to a deadline and get them accepted by the finance person. It's quite another to just state what you'll be doing, the late payer I mean.

 

I would also add something about what happens if you no-show for field trips. Maybe two strikes and you're out?

 

Sorry you're having to deal with this issue, I don't think you are being unreasonable.

 

This is a good idea, too. Right now after explaining why it's important to honor your RSVP's and not be a "no show" (on our group's policy page), there is a line that says:

 

"If a member continually cancels on events at the last minute or ends up being a "no show" too many times, they will be in danger of being removed from the group."

 

But maybe I need to have a more specific policy about it and say, "If a member continually cancels on events at the last minute or ends up being a "no show" more than three times in a one year period, they will be removed from the group." No shows are my other pet peeve. :P It makes me crazy when you've got people who took time out of their day to do a presentation for the group and people you were expecting just don't show up for it. Or when you delay starting because you are trying to be nice and don't want anybody to miss out on anything, and they never intended to show and didn't even call or change their RSVP. I get that sometimes there's an emergency but some people just make a habit of it!

[5kidsforME]

My homeschool group's Meetup dues are due on or before tomorrow (3/1). I have been sending out periodic reminders to my group for a couple of months now, reminding people about it. Probably at least 5 different reminders, all letting people know "Remember, your dues must be paid on or before March 1st to keep your membership active blah blah blah."

 

This one member (who has been a "no show" to events several times) still has not paid her dues or responded to any of those emails.

 

I just saw that she RSVP'd to an event that is being held on March 5th and she commented in her RSVP that she will pay her dues at the same time.

 

Uh. Huh? I very clearly stated over and over they are due on or before March 1st. Not on March 5th.

 

So I just called her house and left a voicemail saying that and asking her to either paypal them or to stop by my house (a town away from her) or m husband's shop (same town she lives in) today or tomorrow and pay them as I've been emailing members for months now letting them know they are due by the 1st and that I would appreciate it if she would pay them on time, especially since by the 5th they will already by late and if she ends up canceling for some reason on the 5th, they'll be even later still. (Members did have the option to mail them in the past, too, but of course it's too late for that now).

 

Am I being unreasonable in this?

 

No. But remembe a lot of people truly believe they are spaaacial. ;)

[tristangrace]

What are the values of the group in general along these lines? If it's a laid-back, relaxed organization, then it would be counter-productive to smack her on the hand for being four days late for $12 bucks that didn't put anyone out. If it's a more professional, cross-the-T's and dot-the-I's group, then requiring her to make a special trip to get the money in by deadline seems reasonable. I'd just try to make sure that your response is in line with the general philosophy of the whole group, so as to send a consistent message about expectations.

[Annie G]

You're being quite reasonable. Not only do you have to get the check, you have to deposit it, do the accounting on it, and probably add her to some member list. Administrative duties take time and you've made it clear that you want to be done with that part of it by March 1st.

To not answer your previous reminders is just rude.

[Meriwether]

You are not being mean and you are not being unreasonable, but I want to stand up for those of us who are more flexible with rules in general. It may seem rude, disorganized and unprofessional to most Americans, but really, many people (and entire cultures) function the way to interpret rules not as fixed absolutes, but as general guidelines, especially for something not very formal. I would honestly not see a big deal for those few days of difference. I would have an issue with consistent not showing up for events, but a few days of flexibility about payment would be totally fine with me.

 

I am like that with most things. I am okay with (reasonable) tardiness, I am okay with "10 page essays" which are 8 or 12 pages long (because the length in my view is a general guideline, not something fixed in stone), I am okay with about a week of flexibility for payment after the official deadline, etc. Just a different view of it - I think these are small stuff which should remain small stuff and not be a cause of frictions.

 

:iagree: Our coop registration money is due by a certain date or the first coop class if you didn't mail it in. If it had been me, I wouldn't have thought twice about accepting the money a few days late.

Edited February 29, 2012 by Meriwether

[Tap]

I am usually very polite and try to work within guidelines set forth. But, when I get very busy, and time is short.... I am a 'weigh my consequence' type person. If I go 5mph over the speed limit, I may get a ticket. If I am willing to accept that consequence, then it is for me to decide. (I am not talking about being reckless or driving 20+mph over the limit--that is different). If I pay a bill late, and there is a late charge...that is on me.

 

What is her consequence? She will be removed from the group? Then do it. It sounds like she is accepting her consequences. Maybe she doesn't want to pay because she isn't sure if she is going to show up anyways.

 

I would wait until tomorrow and send her an email, saying she was cut due to a combination of no-shows and no-payment. If she wants to rejoin, then ask her to reapply next year.

 

 

ETA: and no, I don't think I am special or entitled. I just consider the consequences and weigh my choices. I don't expect anything different than anyone else.

Edited February 29, 2012 by Tap, tap, tap

[fairfarmhand]

This is a good idea, too. Right now after explaining why it's important to honor your RSVP's and not be a "no show" (on our group's policy page), there is a line that says:

 

"If a member continually cancels on events at the last minute or ends up being a "no show" too many times, they will be in danger of being removed from the group."

 

But maybe I need to have a more specific policy about it and say, "If a member continually cancels on events at the last minute or ends up being a "no show" more than three times in a one year period, they will be removed from the group." No shows are my other pet peeve. :P It makes me crazy when you've got people who took time out of their day to do a presentation for the group and people you were expecting just don't show up for it. Or when you delay starting because you are trying to be nice and don't want anybody to miss out on anything, and they never intended to show and didn't even call or change their RSVP. I get that sometimes there's an emergency but some people just make a habit of it!

Our homeschool group does something to help guarantee attendance. If it is a free event, then you have to pay like $10-15 to "hold your place" The day of the event, you get your money back when you show up. Otherwise, it goes into the general fund. People attend better if they have money out of pocket. And they don't allow folks to pay the day of. Otherwise, the group ends up reserving spaces for the no-shows.

[tristangrace]

Question for OP (only slightly off-topic): When you say "no-show" do you mean she doesn't show up to events that the group has planned, or that she doesn't show up to events that she had specifically committed to?

 

I dropped out of a homeschool group because there was an expectation that members would attend most meetings and events, and I was unable/unwilling to meet that expectation. (I was unable to make meetings scheduled for weeknights when my husband was away on business, and I was unwilling to attend events that were strictly social gatherings for the moms.) I had no negative experiences along those lines--I never backed out on an RSVP, I don't think anyone even noticed my sporadic attendance, and certainly no one ever said anything to me about it--it was just a bad fit between what I wanted and what the group wanted.I can certainly understand leadership that wants more continuity and bonding with other moms--but that's not what I was there for. Ever since, though, I've wondered if most homeschool groups want or expect most members to attend most events.

[Harriet Vane]

This is a good idea, too. Right now after explaining why it's important to honor your RSVP's and not be a "no show" (on our group's policy page), there is a line that says:

 

"If a member continually cancels on events at the last minute or ends up being a "no show" too many times, they will be in danger of being removed from the group."

 

But maybe I need to have a more specific policy about it and say, "If a member continually cancels on events at the last minute or ends up being a "no show" more than three times in a one year period, they will be removed from the group." No shows are my other pet peeve. :P It makes me crazy when you've got people who took time out of their day to do a presentation for the group and people you were expecting just don't show up for it. Or when you delay starting because you are trying to be nice and don't want anybody to miss out on anything, and they never intended to show and didn't even call or change their RSVP. I get that sometimes there's an emergency but some people just make a habit of it!

 

I would not make the policy more specific. As a leader, the temptation will always be to write more legislation to control bad behavior. However, there are always going to be badly-behaved people, so you just end up with a lot of repressive rules that are unattractive to your core members. All that to say--you have policies in place. They seem to be worded well to me. Just address the occasional bad apple as needed.

[NanceXToo]

What are the values of the group in general along these lines? If it's a laid-back, relaxed organization, then it would be counter-productive to smack her on the hand for being four days late for $12 bucks that didn't put anyone out. If it's a more professional, cross-the-T's and dot-the-I's group, then requiring her to make a special trip to get the money in by deadline seems reasonable. I'd just try to make sure that your response is in line with the general philosophy of the whole group, so as to send a consistent message about expectations.

 

It is a pretty laid back, relaxed group, and the money isn't putting anybody out, other than the fact that I have to keep hunting down the people who didn't pay it as the deadline draws near, I have to deal with it if she doesn't show up on 3/5 yet again, I told people repeatedly they had to pay on time to avoid removal and if I just let her slide she knows she can get away with breaking the group policies whenever she feels like it, if she brings a check, I have to deposit it after I've already made all the other March deposits, etc.

 

You're being quite reasonable. Not only do you have to get the check, you have to deposit it, do the accounting on it, and probably add her to some member list. Administrative duties take time and you've made it clear that you want to be done with that part of it by March 1st.

To not answer your previous reminders is just rude.

 

Right. I've got this list I'm maintaining of who paid, who still needs to, there's the reminders I'm sending out (and I keep notes on when I sent those out), keeping track of what responses I get, I'm keeping separate accounting for the group, I'm doing the bank deposits, and so on.

 

I am usually very polite and try to work within guidelines set forth. But, when I get very busy, and time is short.... I am a 'weigh my consequence' type person. If I go 5mph over the speed limit, I may get a ticket. If I am willing to accept that consequence, then it is for me to decide. (I am not talking about being reckless or driving 20+mph over the limit--that is different). If I pay a bill late, and there is a late charge...that is on me.

 

What is her consequence? She will be removed from the group? Then do it. It sounds like she is accepting her consequences. Maybe she doesn't want to pay because she isn't sure if she is going to show up anyways.

 

I would wait until tomorrow and send her an email, saying she was cut due to a combination of no-shows and no-payment. If she wants to rejoin, then ask her to reapply next year.

 

 

ETA: and no, I don't think I am special or entitled. I just consider the consequences and weigh my choices. I don't expect anything different than anyone else.

 

If I removed her for non-payment, the note would say something like: You have been removed from the group for a combination of multiple no-shows and non-payment of dues. Should you wish to rejoin the group, you may do so AFTER your dues have been paid. Dues may be paid via paypal to (email address) or may be mailed to (address). Once paypal payment has been received or a check has cleared, you may reapply to join, and at that point, your application will be approved. However, please note that during this membership year, if you are a no-show at an event more than three times during the course of the year for any reason, your membership will immediately be terminated and there will not be a refund of your dues.

[sheryl]

You are "not" being unreasonable at all. Perhaps another approach in another year might be this -

 

Dues paid up to X date will be $$ amt

Dues after the above date to "end of registration" will be X amt. PLUS....meaning a slightly higher price.

 

Of course, the thought behind this is to encourage people to sign up early rather than late to help with organization of co-op, weed out those who are not serious, etc.

 

HTH!

[NanceXToo]

Our homeschool group does something to help guarantee attendance. If it is a free event, then you have to pay like $10-15 to "hold your place" The day of the event, you get your money back when you show up. Otherwise, it goes into the general fund. People attend better if they have money out of pocket. And they don't allow folks to pay the day of. Otherwise, the group ends up reserving spaces for the no-shows.

 

I wouldn't do that. It would make more work for me (I plan a LOT of events so it would mean a LOT of collecting, I already have enough to do), and make my members less likely to attend events at all, which would mean less activities for my kids and I, and we like activities lol.

 

Question for OP (only slightly off-topic): When you say "no-show" do you mean she doesn't show up to events that the group has planned, or that she doesn't show up to events that she had specifically committed to?

 

I dropped out of a homeschool group because there was an expectation that members would attend most meetings and events, and I was unable/unwilling to meet that expectation. (I was unable to make meetings scheduled for weeknights when my husband was away on business, and I was unwilling to attend events that were strictly social gatherings for the moms.) I had no negative experiences along those lines--I never backed out on an RSVP, I don't think anyone even noticed my sporadic attendance, and certainly no one ever said anything to me about it--it was just a bad fit between what I wanted and what the group wanted.I can certainly understand leadership that wants more continuity and bonding with other moms--but that's not what I was there for. Ever since, though, I've wondered if most homeschool groups want or expect most members to attend most events.

 

I mean events she specifically committed to. Our members can RSVP to any events they want, or not, as they see fit. They don't have to go to anything they don't want to go to. Of course we'd like to see at least decent turnout, we don't want a tour where 2 families show up lol. But as long as a handful show up and it's enough to go ahead with an event, great! She RSVP's that she's going to go to something, and then just doesn't show up, and doesn't go on the site to change her RSVP to a "no," doesn't call to say, "Hey, I won't be able to make it after all," just doesn't show up. Not all the time, but she's done it quite a few times now, and she's done it a couple of times even AFTER being talked to about it.

[NanceXToo]

You are "not" being unreasonable at all. Perhaps another approach in another year might be this -

 

Dues paid up to X date will be $$ amt

Dues after the above date to "end of registration" will be X amt. PLUS....meaning a slightly higher price.

 

Of course, the thought behind this is to encourage people to sign up early rather than late to help with organization of co-op, weed out those who are not serious, etc.

 

HTH!

 

I'm going to do that from next year on. That's a good idea and will hopefully be enough incentive to save me some headache!

[amey311]

Question for OP (only slightly off-topic): When you say "no-show" do you mean she doesn't show up to events that the group has planned, or that she doesn't show up to events that she had specifically committed to?

 

 

(not the OP, but I think this is in line with what the OP has posted in later posts).

 

If your group has an event and you don't come (and a specific RSVP for a head count isn't required), I don't consider you specifically to be a "no-show." I'd think you couldn't make it.

 

If your group has an event and there's a minimum attendance or there will be supplies provided and you say you'll be there and you don't show up, then you're a no show.

 

For example, my group does a weekly park day. Members often post if they'll be there mostly because the kids want to know who else is going. If it's near a major holiday, having people mention that they won't be there can mean that attendance will be low and people might opt to not attend. it's not required, it's just a "it would be nice to know." Same for things like "hey! does anyone want to go get ice cream from the old school soda fountain next week? we'll be there on Monday at 2." if you're going, it would be nice to know because the early arrivals will probably choose to sit in a space with more room if they know a lot of people are coming. if you say you're coming and you don't, most people won't consider you a no show. they'll think life got in the way.

 

But if I offer a knitting class for children and limit it to 5 (and start a waiting list) and lay in supplies for those 5, and then 2 children simply don't show up (therefore leaving me with extra supplies and denying 2 other children on the waitlist a chance to come), then you're a no show. And I'm annoyed.

[NanceXToo]

(not the OP, but I think this is in line with what the OP has posted in later posts).

 

If your group has an event and you don't come (and a specific RSVP for a head count isn't required), I don't consider you specifically to be a "no-show." I'd think you couldn't make it.

 

If your group has an event and there's a minimum attendance or there will be supplies provided and you say you'll be there and you don't show up, then you're a no show.

 

For example, my group does a weekly park day. Members often post if they'll be there mostly because the kids want to know who else is going. If it's near a major holiday, having people mention that they won't be there can mean that attendance will be low and people might opt to not attend. it's not required, it's just a "it would be nice to know." Same for things like "hey! does anyone want to go get ice cream from the old school soda fountain next week? we'll be there on Monday at 2." if you're going, it would be nice to know because the early arrivals will probably choose to sit in a space with more room if they know a lot of people are coming. if you say you're coming and you don't, most people won't consider you a no show. they'll think life got in the way.

 

But if I offer a knitting class for children and limit it to 5 (and start a waiting list) and lay in supplies for those 5, and then 2 children simply don't show up (therefore leaving me with extra supplies and denying 2 other children on the waitlist a chance to come), then you're a no show. And I'm annoyed.

 

I count it as anything you RSVP to and don't show up for without letting anybody know/changing your RSVP. The last three things she did it for were: 1) A tour of the library in which two librarians took time out of their day to show the kids around and how to use the computer card catalog and so on. 2) A class my husband was doing at his shop which required showing a video, hands on instruction, and required supplies (fortunately not very expensive ones; it was just a balloon animal class, but still, he set up for her four kids and she never came). 3) A tour of our local small radio station which they had asked for a head count for just to know how many people were coming. 4) Prior to that she also didn't show up for a kickball game at a park which wasn't as big a deal like you mention here, but, still, she said she was going to come and she didn't come. She could have changed her RSVP. Those were the most recent. It's just been an ongoing issue.

[tristangrace]

It is a pretty laid back, relaxed group, and the money isn't putting anybody out, other than the fact that I have to keep hunting down the people who didn't pay it as the deadline draws near, I have to deal with it if she doesn't show up on 3/5 yet again, I told people repeatedly they had to pay on time to avoid removal and if I just let her slide she knows she can get away with breaking the group policies whenever she feels like it, if she brings a check, I have to deposit it after I've already made all the other March deposits, etc.

But why do you have to hunt her down? You didn't have to send her a special e-mail, you don't have to go out of your way to hunt down at the 3/5 event, and if she doesn't show up at--or if she's there and doesn't take responsibility to hunt you down--you don't have to do anything special then either, right? When you update the list tomorrow, you will take her off. If your policy is to let people join during the year, then you stick her back on the list on the 5th (or whenever she pays) just like you would for anyone else. If policy dictates that she's out of luck for the remainder of the year, so be it.

 

The woman's attitude and M.O. may be irritating, and you do have to live with your own irritation, but she doesn't actually have the power to make extra work for you . . . unless your group policies allow for it . . . in which case it's not actually extra work, it's just regular work that comes with the territory of what you signed on for.

 

ETA: I actually meant this post be encouraging, not scolding . . . I think it may have come across as scolding--sorry!!!

[NanceXToo]

But why do you have to hunt her down? You didn't have to send her a special e-mail, you don't have to go out of your way to hunt down at the 3/5 event, and if she doesn't show up at--or if she's there and doesn't take responsibility to hunt you down--you don't have to do anything special then either, right? When you update the list tomorrow, you will take her off. If your policy is to let people join during the year, then you stick her back on the list on the 5th (or whenever she pays) just like you would for anyone else. If policy dictates that she's out of luck for the remainder of the year, so be it.

 

The woman's attitude and M.O. may be irritating, and you do have to live with your own irritation, but she doesn't actually have the power to make extra work for you . . . unless your group policies allow for it . . . in which case it's not actually extra work, it's just regular work that comes with the territory of what you signed on for.

 

ETA: I actually meant this post be encouraging, not scolding . . . I think it may have come across as scolding--sorry!!!

 

lol, it's okay. I send out all the extra emails because I would feel horrible just kicking people out of the group without feeling like I did everything in my power first to make sure I gave them EVERY possible opportunity to pay on time first. I would never want them to go, "I didn't know! I didn't remember! I can't believe you did that!" or whatever. They know. They remember. That's why I sent her the extra email on top of the other four. If I kick her out, she won't be at the 3/5 event, I would presume (which, btw is a mom's night out event, not a regular field trip). If I don't kick her out and she doesn't show up for it, then I'm still back to either having to kick her out then or sending her more emails going, "I still need your payment." But you're right, either way, it's not a lot of extra work on top of what I'd have to do anyway and is mostly just irritation and the fact that I don't really want to send a message to her that my policies don't matter and that she can continue to do whatever she feels like regardless of what policies I try to set for the group.

[mom2hunangirls]

To me, it sounds like there isn't much you can do about accepting it this time. Since there doesn't seem to be a policy in place for "what will happen if you pay late".

I despise this sort of thing. But it will happen. In our group it would be if you don't pay by x you will be inactive and remain as such until our new membership enrollment. So for us it would mean being locked out of our web forum and email lists and not able to attend events until mid-June. I can't remember if there is an extra fee (see, I pay mine on time!), but there is actually a consequence in place.

It doesn't sound like she would really care if she had to pay an added fee for being late so you just have to figure out a way for the tricklers to not add to your stress (our group makes a deposit for early enrollment, and again at new enrollment).

I think the "no-show" strike is only a good idea for things that truly need a head count for something.

Without a current standing procedure for what happens if.... I think you are stuck this go round.

[dirty ethel rackham]

One thing a mom in our homeschooling group did to reduce the no-shows was to require a deposit. If you showed up, you got your deposit back. It was usually a couple dollars per person - very nominal even for a large family. You did not get put on her list until your deposit arrived in-hand. If you didn't show, you didn't get your deposit back. People who are too flaky to show up are usually too flaky to send in a deposit.

[gardening momma]

First of all, I would not remove her until Friday, because you said the payment is due on or before March 1. Since you're allowing PayPal, she has until midnight tomorrow (unless you stated a time on Mar. 1 that it's due).

 

Second, after reading the entire thread, I would do this--

Since you have said that you'll make allowances for someone if they ask to delay payment, and it sounds like you are doing this for someone else (?), I would go ahead and respond to her note re: paying on Mar. 5 at the event, and say that's ok, but if she is not there with her payment, you will have to deactivate her membership. So essentially, you're taking her statement that she'll pay on Mar. 5 as a request--giving her the benefit of the doubt. But do not make any further exceptions on Mar. 5 if she does not pay.

[NanceXToo]

To me, it sounds like there isn't much you can do about accepting it this time. Since there doesn't seem to be a policy in place for "what will happen if you pay late".

I despise this sort of thing. But it will happen. In our group it would be if you don't pay by x you will be inactive and remain as such until our new membership enrollment. So for us it would mean being locked out of our web forum and email lists and not able to attend events until mid-June. I can't remember if there is an extra fee (see, I pay mine on time!), but there is actually a consequence in place.

It doesn't sound like she would really care if she had to pay an added fee for being late so you just have to figure out a way for the tricklers to not add to your stress (our group makes a deposit for early enrollment, and again at new enrollment).

I think the "no-show" strike is only a good idea for things that truly need a head count for something.

Without a current standing procedure for what happens if.... I think you are stuck this go round.

 

Well, the policy page says:

 

"Dues must be received every March 1st to avoid being removed from the group."

 

And the emails I sent out also stated that dues must be received on or before 3/1 to keep your membership active. So I think it was pretty clear that members could and would be removed if they didn't pay their dues on time.

 

I just added something to the policy page which says: "If you are removed from the group for non-payment of dues, you will not be approved to rejoin until AFTER your dues are received. Once you've paid your dues, you may reapply to join, and at that point, your application will be re-approved. If you have extenuating circumstances and need to discuss an extension, you should discuss this with me in advance, BEFORE it reaches the point where you are removed from the group."

 

I would respond back to her e-mail today reminding her once again that the deadline is tomorrow to have the funds in hand...

 

Well, I already left a message on her answering machine at home saying this lol. She's probably so sick of me by now and feels like I lecture her (about her no shows and now paying on time), but sometimes I just feel like if I DON'T nip certain things in the bud, they'll just always be a problem, and for my group to run smoothly and pleasantly for all members involved (not to mention myself, and all the wonderful people who agree to do tours and presentations and so on for us), I can't have certain things happening.

[gardenmom5]

But maybe I need to have a more specific policy about it and say, "If a member continually cancels on events at the last minute or ends up being a "no show" more than three times in a one year period, they will be removed from the group." !

 

The year dh was the secretary for his networking group, he was constantly "trying to be nice" to this one woman (with many problems) so "he could help her" (I should be grateful he doesn't bring home stray animals . . . .:glare:) who had lots of upheavel in her life. He did not follow the larger networking groups policies about attendence, etc. He basically cut her ALOT of slack. it took him *quite* a while, but he finally admitted she was just a total flake and was using everything wrong in her life as an excuse for why she didn't have to take responsilbity for anything or to anybody else. If he'd followed the parent networking group's rules - which are there for the benefit of the dependent groups - she'd have been out months before she finally got kicked out for not following the rules.

 

sometimes, you gotta do what you gotta do, and "being nice" is only prolonging the inevitable.

Edited February 29, 2012 by gardenmom5

[Scuff]

The 5th seems close enough, since you'll be seeing each other at that tome anyway. Why make a special trip 4 days earlier? I do understand how frustrrating it is to be a leader and getting people to do what needs to be done. In the future, you should establish a late fee or something to discourage this behavior and solidify your deadlines in peoples' minds.

[brett_ashley]

:iagree:there is definitely a difference between not having a problem with __ and not being surprised by ___. I would hope even if we're not suprised (which I'm not -nothing new here), it wouldn't be tolerated.

 

I was referring to some of the comments were that OP was "unreasonable" for insisting payments be made by the deadline. those were the one's that amazed me.

 

The reason why I think it's unreasonable is because it really would not put the OP out at all to cut her some slack. She's just irritated. If it's in your power to do something nice for someone, you should. Just my opinion. Besides, you have no idea of what personal drama might be going on behind the scenes that is making her have difficulties sticking to her word. Likely? no. Possible? Absolutely.

 

Next year, do the early bird discount and don't take it personally if someone doesn't pay up. The posts that have attributed evil motives to this person's non-payment are way over the top.

[brett_ashley]

Well, I already left a message on her answering machine at home saying this lol. She's probably so sick of me by now and feels like I lecture her (about her no shows and now paying on time)

 

You're probably right.

 

sometimes I just feel like if I DON'T nip certain things in the bud, they'll just always be a problem.

 

I think this fear is probably exaggerated. You had TWO people not pay on time. Do you think everyone else is going to see her RSVP and suddenly become inconsiderate?

[NanceXToo]

First of all, I would not remove her until Friday, because you said the payment is due on or before March 1. Since you're allowing PayPal, she has until midnight tomorrow (unless you stated a time on Mar. 1 that it's due).

 

Second, after reading the entire thread, I would do this--

Since you have said that you'll make allowances for someone if they ask to delay payment, and it sounds like you are doing this for someone else (?), I would go ahead and respond to her note re: paying on Mar. 5 at the event, and say that's ok, but if she is not there with her payment, you will have to deactivate her membership. So essentially, you're taking her statement that she'll pay on Mar. 5 as a request--giving her the benefit of the doubt. But do not make any further exceptions on Mar. 5 if she does not pay.

 

Agreed, on the first point! I planned to wait until I woke up on the morning of the second, and if I didn't have payment, that would be that.

 

On the second point, I'm still undecided but leaning towards not because the other person asked me personally and gave me a reason, this girl just stated it in an rsvp with a flip "lol" and without any apparent reason other than just not bothering, and has been a problem with other group policies in the past, and I'm afraid it's a slippery slope with her in particular down the "give an inch, take a foot" path. I'm undecided because I really don't like kicking anyone out, it feels kinda "mean," which is why I sent so many reminder emails and gave so much notice and tried to prevent it from having to be an issue to begin with (and did accept a late payment from the person who had a request and a reason), but I don't really need to be taken advantage of either from someone who just can't be bothered, you know?

[Photo Ninja]

I think you are justified in expecting her to follow the stated policies. She is aware of the policies, she knew the deadline for paying dues, and she did not respond to any of the emails. She has a history of making a commitment, then not showing up and not informing anyone of her intent to skip the event. Then she lets you know that she expects an extension without asking for one, and you have no idea if she will actually show up to the event and pay the dues at the later date. This is not acceptable behavior, and it is inconsiderate.

 

Unfortunately, this is the type of behavior that often results in more and more policies in an attempt to keep this type of person in line. Her behavior makes it difficult for those who run the group and for those who schedule events.

 

There is nothing wrong with expecting people to follow policies unless there are extenuating circumstances, and people have discussed those with you prior to the deadline. At that point, you have the opportunity to extend the deadline. We want to give grace and be considerate. IME, people who have special circumstances tend to be the ones who don't assume they will be given a pass, and they initiate contact. It is okay to take special circumstances into consideration, but most the time, people will follow the policy. Since there is a stated policy, there needs to be a consequence for those who choose not to follow it.

 

I have been in the position you are in for many, many years, and have dealt with people like her. Fortunately, most people follow the policies and meet deadlines. They make all the work planning, organizing and keeping records worth it.

 

There is a reason for the deadline, and I would expect her to pay by the deadline. If she does not pay, then I would send her an email stating that her payment is late and according to the policy, she had to be dropped from the group and her spot in the scheduled activity has been given to another member family (if that is the case). Let her know the steps to take to rejoin, and the requirements she needs to meet to continue being a member. Perhaps her schedule is such that, while she wants to be part of the group, now is not the right time. Perhaps this situation will open her eyes to what needs to be her priorities. It will let her know that the group operates under reasonable policies.

 

Since there is a policy, and others have met the deadline and followed the policy, it is unfair to all the other members for you to allow her to continue to disregard those policies. It is not being mean.

[Scuff]

That's what I'm saying! Our group policy page, which everyone has to read and agree to to join, clearly states when dues need to be received by. I don't expect that to be right at the top of peoples' memory banks though, so I started sending out reminders on January 1st.

 

I sent out a reminder 1/1, 1/16, 1/31, 2/15, and then another one to this particular woman on 2/23 saying I haven't heard from you yet and haven't received your payment, please be advised it is due in one week, please make arrangements to get it to me on or before 3/1- she never responded to ANY of them.

 

Then today, the day before the dues are due, she RSVP'd for this thing on the 5th and said in her RSVP: "I'll come, that way I can pay my dues too... lol"

 

Sigh. She's one of the ones that was a no show for that library tour I was so embarrassed about, when most people canceled within the last couple of days and only four families were left, and her (and one other mom) never showed up. When I called her to see if she was coming, because I had these librarians standing there waiting, she was like, "Oh, we don't feel well, so we're not going to come." And I had said, "Okay, well next time can you change your RSVP or call to let somebody know, because we were standing here waiting for you," and she was like, "oh, okay."

 

At home, I sent out an email to the group to this effect, of honoring their RSVP's or changing them if they couldn't go, because in that particular case I would have rescheduled the tour, and then she went and did it AGAIN at the next event she signed up for. Then she signed up for a class at my husband's shop, he had supplies ready for X number of kids, we delayed starting to give everyone a chance to get there and not miss anything, and AGAIN she never showed up, with the four kids she had signed up. I emailed her and was like you can't keep doing this, I've talked to you about it and you did it a couple of times since etc etc- she never answered.

 

Now she's signed up for this, but am I depending on her to show up, dues in hand? Not really. I'd rather she just pay her dues on time if she expects me to keep her in this group. It already says in our group policy that too many no shows may result in removal from the group. I've already said in my emails that non payment of dues on time can result in removal from group. Stuff like this is just really frustrating to me as a group organizer.

 

ETA: You guys have given me something to think about for the future though, some incentive of having members get a discount for paying early, and/or having people have to pay a reinstatement fee plus dues if they get kicked out for non-payment and need to rejoin, or giving a small discount to continuing members or something, I'm going to put some thought into that stuff!

 

 

Given this hostory, I'd send her a firm, polite email that dues are due by the first or her membership will be cancelled. She needs firm boundries. Someone who was usually reliable, but had a lot going on or whatever, I'd let it slide.

[AK_Mom4]

Yeah. try not to stress over it. Drop her from the group on the morning of the 2nd if she hasn't paid and drop her from the attendance list for the activity on the 5th. You've done enough.

[dirty ethel rackham]

I think this fear is probably exaggerated. You had TWO people not pay on time. Do you think everyone else is going to see her RSVP and suddenly become inconsiderate?

 

Running a group and organizing events for homeschoolers is a time-consuming and often exhausting job. I always say that, to get homeschoolers to do things together is like herding cats. I think having hard and fast rules helps to keep the organizer sane and more likely to continue in that role. I have seen way too many field trip organizers burn out from people who expect the rules to bent for them and those who do not honor their commitments.

[NanceXToo]

You're probably right.

 

 

 

I think this fear is probably exaggerated. You had TWO people not pay on time. Do you think everyone else is going to see her RSVP and suddenly become inconsiderate?

 

No, it's not exaggerated. If I don't nip in the bud the fact that she's had so many no shows in a row and just allow her to keep doing it whenever she feels like it, that's exactly what she'll do. So I absolutely had to tell her that is not acceptable. It is RUDE to say you will be somewhere and then not show up. And when we have hardworking people taking time out of their day to do a FREE presentation for our group, like was the case with our library and radio station tours, and then a family just can't be bothered to show up or call or go online to change their RSVP, that reflects poorly on us. And in the case of the library, if I had known that was going to happen, I would have rescheduled instead of showing up at all and wasting their time that day, not to mention my own. They were nice about it, but some places might not be so quick to want to reschedule our group if they felt like we showed up with a smaller group than they expected and wasted their time. I mean, inevitably someone cancels due to illness, and then you have this family of five people who just don't show up at all, we're not a huge group to begin with, I CANNOT have that happening...repeatedly no less.

 

If it's in your power to do something nice for someone you should do it? You know what? I agree. You should have respect for someone who puts so much of their personal time into ensuring that you have an active group full of fun activities for you and your children. You should show up to events you say you're going to show up to and not just leave people hanging and waiting and wondering. You should pay the dues you commit to pay when you join instead of just not bothering. You should answer the emails that are sent to you instead of just ignoring them like you have selective hearing. Those things would be "nice."

 

You would handle it differently if you were in my shoes. I get that. I think your "You're probably right" was a bit snarky, but whatever.

Edited February 29, 2012 by NanceXToo

[brett_ashley]

nance--no snark intended. I should have included a <gently> when I agreed she probably feels parented.

 

I totally agree that she has been rude--but she isn't on this forum asking for advice about her behavior. So my comments haven't addressed her behavior, just yours.

 

My statement that the fear is exaggerated is as it pertains to her thoughtlessness spreading like disease to the other members of your group. It's just not very likely that everyone will start paying dues late and no-showing.

 

maybe amend your post to include a "just agree with me" statement.

Edited February 29, 2012 by brett_ashley

[inmyopinion]

Running a group and organizing events for homeschoolers is a time-consuming and often exhausting job. I always say that, to get homeschoolers to do things together is like herding cats. I think having hard and fast rules helps to keep the organizer sane and more likely to continue in that role. I have seen way too many field trip organizers burn out from people who expect the rules to bent for them and those who do not honor their commitments.

 

YES YES YES YES! People do not seem to understand the time that goes into planning and that ever. little. change. adds. more. work. Also, it is not like you are adding her to a "No fly" list, she can still sign up for membership, right?

Edited February 29, 2012 by inmyopinion
YES to the quote, not that you were mean!

[NanceXToo]

nance--no snark intended. I should have included a <gently> when I agreed she probably feels parented.

 

I totally agree that she has been rude--but she isn't on this forum asking for advice about her behavior. So my comments haven't addressed her behavior, just yours.

 

My statement that the fear is exaggerated is as it pertains to her thoughtlessness spreading like disease to the other members of your group. It's just not very likely that everyone will start paying dues late and no-showing.

 

maybe amend your post to include a "just agree with me" statement.

 

Ok well it came across (to me) like you meant it a bit snarky, but that's fine.

 

I didn't say that it would spread to other members. I said if I don't nip certain things in the bud, they'll just always be a problem. Meaning if I didn't say something and stop her from doing certain things, she'd just keep doing it. And it would always be a problem with HER, not that everybody else would suddenly become a problem, too. So I need to address problems as they occur with relevant members, maybe not the very first time it happens, but after I see it's a recurring issue. As was the case with her.

 

I don't think I need to amend my post to include a just agree with me statement, it seems most people already did. :P (and I'm fine with the fact that a few didn't. If the majority didn't, I'd consider re-evaluating my position, I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't being way out of line in my expectations. The consensus seems to be that I'm not). Still, I do understand where you are coming from and why you feel the way you do. I'm just having a hard time feeling the same way, and yes, I admit that at least in part it's definitely due to being frustrated over her history in this group so far. But also in part due to not wanting her to continue sliding on all the group policies. But I know I've already given all my reasons and you've given all yours, so I think it's fine that we agree to disagree! (Although for the record I'm still only at about 95 percent on what I'll actually DO if I don't hear back from her/receive payment, so there's still a 5 percent chance I won't kick her out if she doesn't pay and will give her til the 5th before doing so. We'll see).

Edited February 29, 2012 by NanceXToo

[Ellie]

The reason why I think it's unreasonable is because it really would not put the OP out at all to cut her some slack. She's just irritated. If it's in your power to do something nice for someone, you should. Just my opinion. Besides, you have no idea of what personal drama might be going on behind the scenes that is making her have difficulties sticking to her word. Likely? no. Possible? Absolutely.

 

Next year, do the early bird discount and don't take it personally if someone doesn't pay up. The posts that have attributed evil motives to this person's non-payment are way over the top.

How much slack does she have to cut? She has sent out at least *5* reminders of the impending renewal date. The offending parent, who has caused problems in the past, has totally ignored those notices, and blithely states that she'll just renew when she pays for the field trip.

 

There's a reason that we leaders do things like this: we've been burned in the past. Not just "irritated," but *burned.* BTDT, watched my friends BTDT, not gonna do it again. Ever.

[4everHis]

I'm not incurring expenses on her behalf between now and then. It's just that I've been telling everyone for MONTHS to pay by March 1st. They've had the option to mail them, to bring them to an event I was going to be at, to drop them at my house or to paypal them. They've had tons of notice and multiple reminders. I see it as her responsibility to pay it on time. She had ample notice, ample opportunity, ample reminders, and she didn't bother. now she wants to pay it late and I'm supposed to just wait (even though everyone else managed to pay on time and even though she's proven to be unreliable about showing up for events she RSVPs to, and even though she didn't discuss this with me and just put it in an RSVP and even though she lives within just a few minutes of us and could still get it to us on time)... It just bothers me!

 

I agree with previous posts. She misses the deadline, now that you've given her ways to meet it, she is canceled. Maybe next time there could be the 'if you are late there will be a $? late fee.' If you let her off this time, she'll just do it again. Time for her to be responsible.

[gardenmom5]

The offending parent, who has caused problems in the past, has totally ignored those notices, and blithely states that she'll just renew when she pays for the field trip.

 

.

 

I thought she was planning on paying when (cough - if - cough) she showed UP for the field trip.

[NanceXToo]

I thought she was planning on paying when (cough - if - cough) she showed UP for the field trip.

 

Yes, that. Which is actually a mom's night out event this time around, not a field trip. Which is at a restaurant/bar, for dinner. At which I'm going to need a drink. Or two. :P

 

:cheers2:

[MeganW]

I just would NOT put this much effort in! I would have sent 1 or 2 reminders, then when she commented that she would pay on the 5th, I would say "I'm so sorry, but I need you to pay by the 1st if you want to remain a member". If she hasn't paid by midnight on the 1st, DROP HER.

 

You've gone way overboard in mothering this lady, and she thinks you will continue to do so.

 

Just drop her and be done with it! Send her a form letter/note saying that her membership has been discontinued due to non-payment, and let her know that she is welcome to reapply in the future.

[Bluegoat]

I tend to be laid back about these things when I am in charge of them. (That is probably why I stink at that kind of office work.) I think the main thing is you have to be consistent in how you treat people, which is not quite the same as "nipping them in the bud".

 

I would not take it personally or ascribe selfish motives. Not everyone understands meet up times or dates or whatever to be absolutes - many people see them as approximates. I think that is probably mostly a function of cuture/upbringing and personality. To me, if March 5th was when I would see people anyway, it was only five days after the official date, and it would not make any actual difference to the organization (and that includes inconveniencing individuals), I would not really tend to see it as absolute. For me, absolute is when if I don't do something, something else bad and concrete will follow. plus, these kinds of practical things do not stay in my mind for more than about 15 seconds - if I intend to mail a letter and have it in my pocket, it usually takes a week to get it in the mail box. When I get a late fee, i just live with it.

 

It would irritate me that people don't show up to things like library visits when others have made an effort. But in general, I think that it is not reasonable to get ticked because of different approaches to things like deadlines - it is not really any different than some people who like public kissing and some who don't. Just try to make a policy that works practically and is applied equally.

[ma23peas]

I tend to be laid back about these things when I am in charge of them. (That is probably why I stink at that kind of office work.) I think the main thing is you have to be consistent in how you treat people, which is not quite the same as "nipping them in the bud".

 

I would not take it personally or ascribe selfish motives. Not everyone understands meet up times or dates or whatever to be absolutes - many people see them as approximates. I think that is probably mostly a function of cuture/upbringing and personality. To me, if March 5th was when I would see people anyway, it was only five days after the official date, and it would not make any actual difference to the organization (and that includes inconveniencing individuals), I would not really tend to see it as absolute. For me, absolute is when if I don't do something, something else bad and concrete will follow. plus, these kinds of practical things do not stay in my mind for more than about 15 seconds - if I intend to mail a letter and have it in my pocket, it usually takes a week to get it in the mail box. When I get a late fee, i just live with it.

 

It would irritate me that people don't show up to things like library visits when others have made an effort. But in general, I think that it is not reasonable to get ticked because of different approaches to things like deadlines - it is not really any different than some people who like public kissing and some who don't. Just try to make a policy that works practically and is applied equally.

 

Agree...honestly, when I first read your post I believed you were being too harsh...you were putting a deadline above a person. Now, if this deadline 'hurt' you ...as in paying money for airline tickets when a certain amount is due, then I think anyone has the right to stick to deadlines...but sometimes life gets in the way or as above they just are not deadline people...you took it to a personal level by making demands and not letting her sigh up...that's just too nitpicky for me (I always make deadlines) but I am the type that will allow people to pay me when they can....I teach classes to over 30 families, deadline was yesterday but about 10 families still have not paid in full...I will not email them...give them another week or two and send a 'gentle' reminder....it's no big deal...I am much bigger on fostering relationships with people over being hard on deadlines...I think your response may have just put a bite into that relationship.

[MrsMe]

I don't think you are mean enough. If she doesn't pay by March 1 then her membership should be inactive as you had stated from the start. She can reinstate her membership but I would have a small penalty for having to reactivate it.

 

:iagree:

[Guest]

Just want to offer a big :grouphug: to Nance. I so feel your pain. That's all I'm gonna say about it. ;)

[NanceXToo]

Agree...honestly, when I first read your post I believed you were being too harsh...you were putting a deadline above a person. Now, if this deadline 'hurt' you ...as in paying money for airline tickets when a certain amount is due, then I think anyone has the right to stick to deadlines...but sometimes life gets in the way or as above they just are not deadline people...you took it to a personal level by making demands and not letting her sigh up...that's just too nitpicky for me (I always make deadlines) but I am the type that will allow people to pay me when they can....I teach classes to over 30 families, deadline was yesterday but about 10 families still have not paid in full...I will not email them...give them another week or two and send a 'gentle' reminder....it's no big deal...I am much bigger on fostering relationships with people over being hard on deadlines...I think your response may have just put a bite into that relationship.

 

I do understand what you are saying. I'm just curious, what would you then do in my position if she didn't show up on the 5th or had to cancel for some reason or if she hadn't RSVP'd to it at all, and let's say another week or two goes by and I sent yet another (sixth) gentle reminder letting her know she was late and her payment was due, and let's say she ignored that one, too, or said she'd get to it but it didn't come, do you just KEEP letting it go? Is there EVER a point where you have to put your foot down and think you can't let it go anymore, that it's not fair that everyone else has paid and this member is just coasting along without paying and that you have to remove them? When would that point be for you? How late would you let somebody be? Not asking defensively, honestly just wondering. BTW I don't mean this in a mean way but I don't feel I really HAVE a relationship with this particular member. She's been in the group about 7 months but I've only seen her twice I think because she's only showed up to two of the events she's RSVP'd to that I've attended (and I attend almost all of them). She supposedly went to three other things that were posted as an "FYI" kind of thing that were large open to the public events as opposed to private events for our group (I wouldn't know if she actually showed up to those three). Everything else she either canceled or was a no show. So I barely know her other than to know that she's been a bit difficult to deal with in regard to trying to get her to honor her RSVP's and now paying her dues. I normally DO try to foster relationships with my group members and to be sympathetic to things that might be going on with them (and I've helped quite a few of them out with various things) but this one just hasn't seemed to make the effort, and I feel any relationship needs to at least somewhat be a two way street.

Edited February 29, 2012 by NanceXToo

[MeganW]

I do understand what you are saying. I'm just curious, what would you then do in my position if she didn't show up on the 5th or had to cancel for some reason or if she hadn't RSVP'd to it at all, and let's say another week or two goes by and I sent yet another (sixth) gentle reminder letting her know she was late and her payment was due, and let's say she ignored that one, too, or said she'd get to it but it didn't come, do you just KEEP letting it go? Is there EVER a point where you have to put your foot down and think you can't let it go anymore, that it's not fair that everyone else has paid and this member is just coasting along without paying and that you have to remove them? When would that point be for you? How late would you let somebody be? Not asking defensively, honestly just wondering.

 

A SIXTH reminder??? Backup and listen to yourself! That's absurd. Just drop her, send her a letter, and be done! :)

[Ellie]

No, it's not exaggerated. If I don't nip in the bud the fact that she's had so many no shows in a row and just allow her to keep doing it whenever she feels like it, that's exactly what she'll do. So I absolutely had to tell her that is not acceptable. It is RUDE to say you will be somewhere and then not show up. And when we have hardworking people taking time out of their day to do a FREE presentation for our group, like was the case with our library and radio station tours, and then a family just can't be bothered to show up or call or go online to change their RSVP, that reflects poorly on us. And in the case of the library, if I had known that was going to happen, I would have rescheduled instead of showing up at all and wasting their time that day, not to mention my own. They were nice about it, but some places might not be so quick to want to reschedule our group if they felt like we showed up with a smaller group than they expected and wasted their time. I mean, inevitably someone cancels due to illness, and then you have this family of five people who just don't show up at all, we're not a huge group to begin with, I CANNOT have that happening...repeatedly no less.

 

If it's in your power to do something nice for someone you should do it? You know what? I agree. You should have respect for someone who puts so much of their personal time into ensuring that you have an active group full of fun activities for you and your children. You should show up to events you say you're going to show up to and not just leave people hanging and waiting and wondering. You should pay the dues you commit to pay when you join instead of just not bothering. You should answer the emails that are sent to you instead of just ignoring them like you have selective hearing. Those things would be "nice."

 

You would handle it differently if you were in my shoes. I get that. I think your "You're probably right" was a bit snarky, but whatever.

I am TOTALLY there with you. As I said before, BTDT, watched friends BTDT (can you make "BTDT" be past tense? :lol:) which is why I have a zero tolerance policy on things like renewals of any kind and paying for field trips and the whole thing.

 

A friend said she used to think I was hard-nosed regarding my field trip policies...until she began organizing field trips for her group, and then she understood fully. She changed her ways and became equally as hard-nosed. :001_tt2:

[NanceXToo]

A SIXTH reminder??? Backup and listen to yourself! That's absurd. Just drop her, send her a letter, and be done! :)

 

:lol: See, if I was REALLY mean I'd have no qualms about it whatsoever. The truth is, I WILL feel a bit bad about it if I end up actually doing it even though I do believe it'd be her own fault. I am hoping that my message will cause her to go, "whoops, better just pay it on time" and just go take care of it and then it won't have to come down to it. But we'll see how it plays out, and then I'll have to make a final decision, and we'll see if I'm a pushover or not lol.

[Ellie]

:lol: See, if I was REALLY mean I'd have no qualms about it whatsoever. The truth is, I WILL feel a bit bad about it if I end up actually doing it even though I do believe it'd be her own fault. I am hoping that my message will cause her to go, "whoops, better just pay it on time" and just go take care of it and then it won't have to come down to it. But we'll see how it plays out, and then I'll have to make a final decision, and we'll see if I'm a pushover or not lol.

Do you need to have me waiting in the background with a cattle prod to help you make the final decision NOT to let her get away with it one.more.time? :lol: