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Can I refuse????? Or will he call CPS?


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My three and a half year old has issues witb hating food and refusing to eat. Today, her doctor recommended a play therapist... And got the ball rolling without my input. The therspst called and told me I would have to leave my baby alone with her after two sessions. NO WAY!!!!!!!!

 

I have nothing to hide but I am not ok with this... Can I refuse... Would that be considered medical neglect... In general I do not trust shrinks.. Would you get a new doctor.

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My three and a half year old has issues witb hating food and refusing to eat. Today, her doctor recommended a play therapist... And got the ball rolling without my input. The therspst called and told me I would have to leave my baby alone with her after two sessions. NO WAY!!!!!!!!

 

I have nothing to hide but I am not ok with this... Can I refuse... Would that be considered medical neglect... In general I do not trust shrinks.. Would you get a new doctor.

 

Play therapists are often well trained and can help with a variety of circumstances. I'd encourage you to consider the range of options to help your family, if your child's eating related behavior is at the level of needing intervention.

 

You *can* refuse, but I'm not sure that is necessarily the best decision.

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Why do you not trust therapists? Also many many children, even those from loving well taken care of homes, will not talk freely and such with parents around...yes this means even kids as young as 3. Technically yes you can refuse they will not be able to say that you have to talk to a therapist.

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Why do you not trust therapists? Also many many children, even those from loving well taken care of homes, will not talk freely and such with parents around...yes this means even kids as young as 3. Technically yes you can refuse they will not be able to say that you have to talk to a therapist.

 

Last time I saw a shrink... Well.... She convinced me I was safe and I was not and she belie someone else over me.... Its a long story... But it was bad for me

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I might not be comfortable leaving my young child alone with someone I didn't know either. Is there a way to watch and listen through a one-way window or something like that? I have no idea how your child's doctor would respond, but it hardly seems like neglect when a parent wants to supervise her 3 1/2 year old. I'd think reasonable doctors would understand that.

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Does your child refuse to eat at all? Is she losing weight? Is it affecting her health in other ways?

 

I think play therapists can be wonderful, but I can't say I would be willing to leave my child completely alone with the therapist unless there was a way I could view the session such as through a window or something like that.

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I would think whether they can force intervention depends on how serious the situation is. If you have a child refusing all food and in danger of malnutrition, they have more ability to force the issue.

 

Have they already eliminated physical causes of the food/eating issues? If not, I'd consider requesting an occupational therapist and speech therapist evaluation before going to a play therapist.

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Does your child refuse to eat at all? Is she losing weight? Is it affecting her health in other ways?

 

I think play therapists can be wonderful, but I can't say I would be willing to leave my child completely alone with the therapist unless there was a way I could view the session such as through a window or something like that.

 

She is small for her age.... She eats... But it is a huge fight... She is not t losing weight..

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She is small for her age.... She eats... But it is a huge fight... She is not t losing weight..

 

It does seem like she needs SOME sort of help. I get not leaving her alone with someone you don't know, but are you open to finding help of some sort? It isn't normal to fight eating.

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It does seem like she needs SOME sort of help. I get not leaving her alone with someone you don't know, but are you open to finding help of some sort? It isn't normal to fight eating.

 

I have requested an OT and she has had ST and PT.... also a GI, Genetecist, ENT, Cardio, and an Allergist... Oh, and feeding therapist

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I might not be comfortable leaving my young child alone with someone I didn't know either. Is there a way to watch and listen through a one-way window or something like that? I have no idea how your child's doctor would respond, but it hardly seems like neglect when a parent wants to supervise her 3 1/2 year old. I'd think reasonable doctors would understand that.

 

If you think this would help your child AND you can watch, maybe that is a good alternative.

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Check into OT for feeding therapy.

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

I'd think the OT route might be much more productive than play therapy.

 

I want to add... She gas issues with smell, noise, and textures... Something sensory... But the dr. ignores me on that

 

Sounds like SPD. Set up an evaluation with an OT experienced with SPD. I wouldn't wait for the ped.

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I'm with you on this.

Just as I wouldn't leave my child alone with any other doctor or medical professional, I would not leave him/her alone with a play therapist. Sorry.

 

I refused physical, speech, and OT for my son. He is now flourishing - on his own. I was certain that he would catch up after his lung surgery and, sure enough, he has. Slowly but steadily.

 

Is he refusing ALL food?

If so, and it is medically immediately necessary, I would ask for someone who wouldn't require I leave him alone.

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My three and a half year old has issues witb hating food and refusing to eat. Today, her doctor recommended a play therapist... And got the ball rolling without my input. The therspst called and told me I would have to leave my baby alone with her after two sessions. NO WAY!!!!!!!!

 

I have nothing to hide but I am not ok with this... Can I refuse... Would that be considered medical neglect... In general I do not trust shrinks.. Would you get a new doctor.

 

No, I would absolutely not be comfortable with another individual deciding another person needed to be involved with my family without my consent, and further, I would not be okay with the appointed individual needing to be alone with my 3 1/2 year old.

 

But, that's just me. Wouldn't happen.

 

Of course you can refuse. No, it's not neglect - if you are neglectful of the welfare of your kids, then it's neglect. If the person/people appointed are not appointed due to your neglect, then you are not necessarily neglectful. Based on what you describe, were I you, I would not allow it. Period.

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I'm with you on this.

Just as I wouldn't leave my child alone with any other doctor or medical professional, I would not leave him/her alone with a play therapist. Sorry.

 

I refused physical, speech, and OT for my son. He is now flourishing - on his own. I was certain that he would catch up after his lung surgery and, sure enough, he has. Slowly but steadily.

 

Is he refusing ALL food?

If so, and it is medically immediately necessary, I would ask for someone who wouldn't require I leave him alone.

 

She eats anwhere from 200-700 calories a day most days... She has no interest in food... I oack her milk with protein when she does not get enough...and she gets vitamins every day... She is also super picky.

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Could you ask for group feeding therapy? That's what was recommended for us. I can see why they would ask to do the therapy without you there. My DDs were much more cooperative in groups without me around. If they saw me, they wouldn't talk to anyone at all and would hide under me, behind me, or otherwise do nothing but cling. When I left, they would play and even try foods in class.

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I'm sure the doctor could call CPS if he feels you are neglectful by not following through. To satisfy him, I would tell him that you want to discuss the feeding issue with an OT first and get their opinion on this kind of therapy. I'd also explain that you'd like to interview several therapists before choosing one.

 

I would also document the conversation just in case. Of course, the fact that he called the therapist for you could be standard but I'm a little paranoid due to my history.

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is this an OT? My son is seen by an OT for food sensory issues. He is also in speech.

I was with him in the appt's until he was about 3.5yrs old. At around that age, typically, the student will "work harder" when the parent is not in the room. I found that with my son.

 

Of course, I think it depends on the child. I might go & get a feel for this therapist - see what she's like & tell her you'd like to stay for more than 2 appt's before making a decision to leave the room (if at all). If she's not cool with that, then find someone else. But if you find that your child is clingy to you & runs to you when he doesn't want to "do the work" , then I'd try stepping out. but really , play therapy is fun. My son LOVES it. They do a lot of sensory play, not just revolving around food. He has fun there & doesn't give one whit that I'm not in the room with him!

 

Oh, I don't know why you're worried about cps really....I wouldn't give it a second thought. The fact of the matter is you are pursuing help for your child & he is under the care of a doctor - so I wouldn't worry about it.

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You could seek a second opinion. Also, you could agree to the therapy but insist it takes place in a room that has a one-way window and intercoms system. That way you could "leave" but still see and hear everything that goes on in therapy. Or perhaps they could offer a video set up where you are in another room but you could watch and hear everything on a monitor. These are very reasonable and workable suggestions.

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I want to add... She gas issues with smell, noise, and textures... Something sensory... But the dr. ignores me on that

 

The doctor ignores you? I would be getting a new doctor. I would also see an OT, and tell the therapist that you are pursuing treatment elsewhere, and that you're sorry that the doc wasted his time.

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:grouphug:

 

If she's small enough to be failure to thrive (my son has been there much of his life) I'd tread carefully and document everything.

 

Is this a pediatrician? Can you get another pediatrician's opinion on how to proceed--I've done that just to cover myself--or the opinion of one of her other doctors like gastro or genetics? You mentioned a litany of professionals there. Does she have an underlying issue that might affect appetite (like slow gastric emptying) or growth otherwise?

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I have requested an OT and she has had ST and PT.... also a GI, Genetecist, ENT, Cardio, and an Allergist... Oh, and feeding therapist

 

I find it odd that she has all this in place and yet another professional ordered a therapist for you. It doesn't add up.

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:grouphug:

 

If she's small enough to be failure to thrive (my son has been there much of his life) I'd tread carefully and document everything.

 

Is this a pediatrician? Can you get another pediatrician's opinion on how to proceed--I've done that just to cover myself--or the opinion of one of her other doctors like gastro or genetics? You mentioned a litany of professionals there. Does she have an underlying issue that might affect appetite (like slow gastric emptying) or growth otherwise?

 

She has been right since the day she born pretty much. she never even been on growth chart. she was born with three heart defects, a paralyzed left vocal cord,

hypotonia, and laryngomalacia. most of those problems have been cleared up call on their own. she has been intolerance to dairy but no food allergies. her father is only 5 feet 4 inches and all of the women on both sides of the family range from 4 foot 7 inches 25 foot 1 inch who's going to be very big anyway

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I want to add... She gas issues with smell, noise, and textures... Something sensory... But the dr. ignores me on that

 

We dealt with sensory, as well as a number of other issues. Any pediatrician who ignored my concerns would have become my former pediatrician in a hurry.

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I find it odd that she has all this in place and yet another professional ordered a therapist for you. It doesn't add up.

 

:iagree:

 

If there is an SLP, OT, and feeding already on board, why the play therapist (for eating specifically)? Have you had a feeding evaluation? If it's "something sensory" you don't need the Dr's permission to figure out what it is.

 

Are there issues with textures? Colors? Shapes? As a band-aid, feed her what she'll eat while working on the other problems.

 

Does she take a supplemental drink? 200-700 calories is not enough! During my son's harder moments, he took 1200 calories in pediasure alone, and was encouraged to eat at least something daily. (I know, pediasure stinks, but I wasn't aware of other options)

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She has a LOT of help for this and other issues. This is what I think (as a mother of a 3½ year old we've been fussing with this issue regarding for the past nine months - he's been dx'd FTT all his life but I just got him last April)....

 

It sounds like you have the professionals on board that you need to. Are you following any and all recommendations? What do THEY say about your daughter's progress?

 

Do you have WIC for Pediasure or use some other supplement (a lot of people don't like Pediasure because of the sugar. I choose it because 113 containers are FREE each month)?

 

Do you use rewards related to eating? I tell you that my son loves the Readeez videos (so do I!). We just do them on my phone. Additionally, we try to have him beat his sister (who needs to slow down so she knows she "wins" by "losing" to him) and eat just a normal 3 year old amount at a time (btw, a normal 3yr old amt is VERY small. Thankfully, two friends and my brother each have children within a month of age of my son so I can see what other kids are doing).

 

I think the play therapy is a GOOD idea. Fact is that children can control only a few issues, especially when they have as many needs as your daughter has (or as much trauma as my son has had). Eating is one of them. My son's issues DO have other components which we are addressing (feeding therapy, sensory integration, etc) but one HUGE part is behavior. I'd like to think I had a big part in making a breakthrough and I think I *did,* but I have NO DOUBT that weekly play therapy to work through his issues has helped also. I realize that your daughter likely doesn't have my son's past, but having those sorts of medical and developmental concerns do carry the risk for being stressors in and of themselves AS WELL aspects of it (or the whole of the situation) causing trauma also.

 

I do get the concern of sending your child off with someone. This is something I have to deal with very regularly and I hate it. And yet, I usually don't mind them going with the play therapist individually (though I do wish we had some parent-child time with her also but that isn't possible until after adoption).

 

Some questions for you to consider....

 

Could you sit back and let them work without interfering with guidance, translation, giving back story, making eye contact, disciplining, freaking at a lie or something that comes out, keeping them from certain behaviors, etc? I couldn't, not all the time. Sometimes it'd be an accident, but plenty of the time, it wouldn't be.

 

Would your child be less likely to express certain things in front of you even if it something minor? Seriously, young children WANT to please us. Can you be CERTAIN that she'd be able to express anything and everything?

 

Could you not redirect, tell her she was wrong, discipline, etc AFTER therapy except regarding things you and the therapist decide need to be handled and how to handle it? My kids' therapist and I do talk about such things so I can still handle what needs to be handled. But I know if I had been there, I'd be messing with things it'd be better not to (possibly at that point or ever).

 

Honestly, I would do the therapy. I would ask what kind of feedback you can expect as well as ask to be included when you feel there is something to work through or the therapist does. I would also ask that no therapy notes are released to the doctor or anyone else as they are confidential for your daughter. The difference, of course, would be, if you felt the therapy notes would be helpful and give express permission.

 

I so can't wait til I have a bit more control myself, but I definitely will be continuing play therapy. We have a GREAT play therapist (and know another great one if we ever need another one day). I wouldn't give it up for the world. Thankfully, we were forced into it or I'd probably be more like some of y'all about it :)

Edited by 2J5M9K
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Last time I saw a shrink... Well.... She convinced me I was safe and I was not and she belie someone else over me.... Its a long story... But it was bad for me

 

I'm sorry that therapist was a creep, but judging all of them by that one is not the best idea, especially if you have a kiddo who might stand to be helped.

 

I do get the worry about leaving such a little guy alone with someone else, though. I'm not sure I would be willing to do it.

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Check into OT for feeding therapy. DS's therapist works on feeding issues. Any therapist that does not allow me in the room or a viewing window does not treat my child.

 

While there are good play therapists out there, check them out thoroughly.

 

 

Exactly what I was going to recommend. We argued with, catered too, and threatened our daughter for years about eating. Thinking it was just a phase. Turns out she had VERY tight muscles in her face and mouth, and couldn't control certain foods because her tongue muscles were so tight. I did officially apologize to her a few weeks ago. She says she understands. (she's only 10, but at some point, she'll realize that we did apologize and be able to maturally accept it).

 

Call around to OT and ask for someone experienced in eating therapy. I don't know where you live, but if you have a big Children's Hospital nearby, I would call their OT dept and ask for a referral. We got lucky. There was an OT place at our HS convention last year that was NOT affiliated with the hospital. I called and they had the perfect person.

 

Another thing you might want to do is talk to speech therapy. They work with the mouth, and they very well may know someone who can help you. Sometimes kids with speech problems also have eating problems.

 

And, as a last thought, if you can't find anyone. Call a nursing home or geriatric care facility. They have therapists there who work with stroke patients, to help them be able to eat again. They might be able to either help you, or refer to someone who CAN help you.

 

 

Play therapy might be helpful, but I would get an OT eval from one trained in eating issues. Also, I would not let a therapist work with my child alone after only two visits. I say after only 2 visits, because my daughter is in counseling for anxiety and depression (yeah, she's only 10) and I know that at some point she will be in there without me. BUT, I am in with her right now, and have been since we started, about 10 sessions ago. I am getting a feel for the therapist and I now think I can trust her. I will be in with her for another year, probably. By then, I should have a good feel. I hope! Plus her counselor is a female.

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:iagree:

 

If there is an SLP, OT, and feeding already on board, why the play therapist (for eating specifically)? Have you had a feeding evaluation? If it's "something sensory" you don't need the Dr's permission to figure out what it is.

 

Are there issues with textures? Colors? Shapes? As a band-aid, feed her what she'll eat while working on the other problems.

 

Does she take a supplemental drink? 200-700 calories is not enough! During my son's harder moments, he took 1200 calories in pediasure alone, and was encouraged to eat at least something daily. (I know, pediasure stinks, but I wasn't aware of other options)

 

she has no issues with shapes or colors... mostly certain smells.... for instance, any shampoo but strawberry kids suave makes her gag and sometimes throw-up. If a food smells too strong, she will not eat it. She does not like lotions touching any part of her body but her feet. Again, she gags. She used to freak at loud noises but lately she has panic attacks at absolute quiet. Thw wind freaks her out. She will not, and never has, eaten pureed foods.... or things like jello, ice cream, yogurt, pudding, cream soups. She will not eat green veggies. She hates the feel of gloves on her hands, but that is getting a little better. She will not wear high neck shirts.

 

She was born with a paralyzed vocal cord, laryngomalacia, heart defects, and hypotonia. Most of that has all self healed. She has been FTT since she was 13 days old. She is very verbal, with an accelerated vocabulary. She She is social but very independant. She has some fine motor delays and has outgrown her gross motor delays.

 

She will not drink pediasure... on the dieticians advice, I give her instant breakfast in her rice milk... sometimes she drinks it, sometimes she doesn't. EVERY meal is a fight.

 

She comes from small stock, so we don't expect her to be a giant... but in a year, she has only gained 1 pound and 1.5 inches...

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Check into OT for feeding therapy. DS's therapist works on feeding issues. Any therapist that does not allow me in the room or a viewing window does not treat my child.

 

My son gets feeding therapy from his OT once a week, in addition to his regular OT sessions. We *love* his OT! I attend feeding therapy with him, because it's very important for me to learn how to deal with his feeding issues at home! I've learned a ton of great strategies. It just wouldn't be beneficial for me to be absent during feeding therapy. In fact, we've had each of my older children attend once as well, so they can encourage him in developmentally appropriate ways also.

 

Since all of our therapies are private, paid for by our insurance alongside a hefty copay, I believe that the therapists work for ME. I expect them to treat me as a partner in the therapy process. If they don't, then I have no problem finding another therapist.

 

With that said, I now sit in the waiting room while my son has his regular OT sessions. I did attend with him for several months, at the request of his OT, until we were both comfortable with him attending alone.

 

I suspect that the play therapist wants to do an evaluation, and feels that he might perform best if you're not in the room. I prefer OT over play therapy for feeding issues, but I would expect a play therapist to utilize a room with a viewing window, so I could watch.

 

I think you're completely justified in saying that you'd like him to be in a room with a viewing window. I also think you'd be completely justified in requesting an OT referral for feeding, rather than play therapy.

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No, I would absolutely not be comfortable with another individual deciding another person needed to be involved with my family without my consent, and further, I would not be okay with the appointed individual needing to be alone with my 3 1/2 year old.

 

But, that's just me. Wouldn't happen.

 

Of course you can refuse. No, it's not neglect - if you are neglectful of the welfare of your kids, then it's neglect. If the person/people appointed are not appointed due to your neglect, then you are not necessarily neglectful. Based on what you describe, were I you, I would not allow it. Period.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

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We have all of our kids in therapy at some point or another. I never have left them alone. I would leave DSS15 at this point but when DSD12 goes I don't. I politely tell them that I am sorry but we don't leave our children alone with anyone we have only known for a few hours behind a closed door. I say it with a smile.

 

I have had one therapist ask, "So you don't trust me?" I answered that honestly no I didn't. I don't know you and even in 6 weeks I will have only known you 6 hours. Plenty of children are abused by therapists. I don't think that their profession dictates that you should automatically trust someone you do not know to be in a closed room alone with your child. I can't think of any other situation where people would think this was okay.

 

I had another tell us that the child would "lie" with us there. Our children didn't and the therapist was impressed, as time went on and I got to know the therapist we would leave on occasion but never until I was fully comfortable.

 

I have never understood why more people don't have a problem with it. Anywhere else, "Hi, I'm just meeting you but let's go in this room and close the door for an hour, mom won't mind." Moms would freak out! Especially with children under ten years old! I am the parent and I have the right to determine who sees my child and when. Do not let doctors intimidate you.

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JFWIW, when my son was little and I stepped out (1/4-1/2 of many sessions), I just sat outside the door. It wasn't like I was gone far. And my littles currently (not that I have a choice) are in my master bedroom which is in the middle of the house. You can usually hear. It isn't like the kids are particularly quiet when playing.

 

I also send my kids in with other therapists (speech, occupational, physical) except for the part where directions are given to me (which may be 3 minutes or may be the entire session depending on a number of factors).

 

Honestly, I *couldn't* be in every therapy with every child. It wouldn't even be possible unless I locked up the rest of the kids not having therapy at that moment. My kids are a much bigger danger to themselves and each other than the therapist (play, speech, etc) is in a room in our home with one of them at a time.

 

Seriously, like I said in another post, I'm *glad* it has been like this because I *had* to get past my fear and controlling ways. I *can't* be in with them yet. I'll take back some control when they are adopted, but I'm glad I now am comfy enough to allow them the benefits of private therapy also.

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I already replied, but want to add a couple little things, tacking on to what some PPs have said. First, to be clear, my understanding is that the "play therapy" you are referring to in the OP treats behavioral issues, not sensory issues (even though OT involves lots of playing, it's not typically referred to as "play therapy"). Therefore, play therapy would seem to be the wrong treatment to try at this point. Second, it is true that some kids act differently when parents are present - our old OT place had a one-way window into the OT gym from the observation room where parents waited and watched, but they would never disallow the parent from being present in the gym if the parent requested it, and indeed some parents sat in the gym through the whole session (though the room for feeding was smaller, with a little kitchen in it, there would be chairs for a parent).

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play therapy for EATING is not seeing a shrink for anything -- it is play. Disliking shrinks is fine, BUT it is not relevant to a 3 yo in play therapy for eating.

 

we've done OT for eating and I WISH we could get therapy for eating or a professional to care about my 6 yo eating, i am frankly jealous your Ped cares and notices.

 

your 3 yo will have a blast!!!

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You can certainly refuse. Tell him you would prefer to try OT first, and/or that you would prefer to be referred to a therapist who does not insist on excluding you from the session as it is your policy to remain with your minor child for all medical and therapeutic treatments and that is at odds with this particular therapist's style. End of story. No biggie.

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UPDATE: I ended insisting on OT eval for her hands and sensory issues. The dr refused. I "fired the dr, filed a complaint with the hospital he works for, and we see a new doctor this afternoon

 

Good for you.

 

When you see the new dr, do not complain about the previous dr. Just list your child's issues and your concerns. Have a list that will help you lay out the information both systematically and completely.

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