s/o s/o Feminism

[hsmom23]

I am starting to wonder if this is an old-fashioned idea or a contemporary one. When did the term "breadwinner" originate? My understanding is that it is an industrial revolution creation.

 

I think we have labeled it as such more recently but all the way through history the man has done the brunt of the bread winning, wether it was ancient hunting, farming fields or whatever. Mostly because by very nature women will be pregnant and bare children. They would have had to nurse and care for the baby while young because of their gender. It is, IMHO, the way it is by nature. I am not anti-women working, I work myself while my husband is laid off in the winter and he cares for the kids and home schools because it makes financial sense and he gets some much loved time with our girls too! I agree that each family has to figure that out on their own, but in my heart I believe that by nature it is easier for MOST women, because they already have to take time out to have the baby and care for it if they are nursing. And I truly believe that God designed a family to work together, mother and father doing their best in each situation to raise their kids TOGETHER! FWIW I do believe that children should spend much more time with a parent than happens in this busy society though!

[Virg]

I cannot agree with the feminist view that the only difference between men and women is their reproductive organs. While I believe that we are all of equal value, I also believe that men and women are just made differently, not just physically but emotionally and psychologically as well. None of those differences make us superior or inferior, however.

 

I also absolutely cannot get on board with the feminist stance on abortion. I believe it is self-centered and demeans us as women.

 

:iagree:

[msk]

I think we have labeled it as such more recently but all the way through history the man has done the brunt of the bread winning, wether it was ancient hunting, farming fields or whatever. Mostly because by very nature women will be pregnant and bare children. They would have had to nurse and care for the baby while young because of their gender. It is, IMHO, the way it is by nature.

 

I disagree. People were foragers for the vast majority of human history. In many, many studies of foragers, women's labor is responsible for many more of the calories a group consumes than men's labor. In a lot of foraging societies as they exist today, men do more hunting, which is viewed as a higher-status activity and provides more of certain nutrients (like fat) but has a very low return rate. Women's "gathering" (interestingly, this term is often extended to include trapping of small animals, not just plants) is much more reliable and contributes most of the food. In farming societies, I can't think of a single example in which women did not contribute substantial labor to food production. If by "breadwinner" we mean putting actual food on the table, our human history is one of both sexes making meaningful contributions. The man as the "breadwinner" in terms of supplying all the wage labor in a household which doesn't produce its own food is a very recent phenomenon, and that disparity is at the root of what feminism is fighting against, as I see it.

 

Foraging societies also consist of groups of people working together-- it's not at all uncommon for women to nurse each others' babies whenever it's convenient, or for extended families to join in to care for children. The nuclear family structure we in N America often see as "natural" is not at all characteristic of most of human history, or of most societies.

[Word Nerd]

I do not identify as a feminist. I do believe in equal pay for equal work. I believe women should have the same educational opportunities and benefits as men. I am grateful to the suffragettes and those who fought for civil rights for the benefits they have afforded me and most other women today. I had my degree long before my husband did and out-earned him for many years and worked full time and cared for our young children while he completed school. I am blessed to have a husband who respected me enough to allow me to choose whether to continue to pursue my career or to choose to give it up completely to raise our family. In the same way, I am grateful to those who fought for civil rights and have made it possible for me to enjoy a bi-racial marriage with hardly a ripple in society.

 

However, there are several points that I consider integral to the label of feminist to which I will never agree. I think that the man-hating element, as well as the folks who attempted to deny the differences between men and women which extend beyond difference in genitalia, have done a great disservice to the cause. As a mother of four sons, I will never accept the status quo that is now commonly accepted and propagated in modern media of men as the bumbling, incompetent idiots while women are the cool-headed, consummate professionals. I'd much rather prefer an honest dialogue on the genuine merits and dispositions of both men and women, while respecting and encouraging folks of either gender in whatever productive pursuit they are passionate about.

 

It is when the push for equal rights tips over into specific racial or gender preferences that I must abandon my support for the cause. Inequality and segregation of resources and opportunities is immoral, in my opinion, regardless of which race or gender under discussion.

 

Interestingly, the only backlash I have ever experienced in my bi-racial marriage has been from isolated members of my husband's family, who believe their eligible young men and women should "keep it within their race." Similarly, the only backlash I have ever experienced as a woman, giving up a lucrative career to stay home and raise and educate my children has been from other career women or family members who see my choice as a waste of intelligence, experience and education. In both cases, the very groups that fought for equal rights for themselves now have members who denigrate those who have the temerity to exercise said rights in a way they do not approve of.

 

In addition to these objections, I am firmly pro-life and it seems to me that at this time, feminism is so very intertwined with the pro-choice movement that a feminist is simply presumed to agree. For this reason alone, despite the number of friends I have who self-identify as feminist and pro-life, nevertheless I could never accept the label for myself.

 

Well said. I can relate to much of what you have shared and do not claim the label feminist for similar reasons.

[HSMom2One]

 

I would like to ask, does being thankful for the rights we have now mean that I must identify myself as a feminist? This is the only way to show my thankfulness? If I don't call myself a feminist, then I am somehow ungrateful?

 

 

Heavens no! My comment was made to mean that there are some positive things that DID come out of the feminist movement that women (whether they consider themselves feminists or not) can be thankful for. The best examples being the fact that we can vote and we can earn equal pay. What I didn't add was that there were some not-so-positive things that came out of that movement as well. But really, I think it's hard for women today to completely understand what life would have been like without the benefits and rights that we now have and mostly take for granted.

 

What I LOVE about life in the free world is that we have the opportunity to choose for ourselves whether or not we will have a career outside the home, or if we will stay at home and be solely homemakers and mothers; we have the choice of what beliefs we live by, and we as women in America even have the choice of whether to marry and have a family or not. I do not want to take it for granted that I am able to follow the call of God on my life without fear or suppression.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

[astrid]

Yes, posts such as this:

 

The reason we are not criticizing the father in the above scenario is because we are not feminists. LOL.

 

We buy into that whole old-fashioned idea that the man should be the breadwinner if at all possible and the mom should be, gasp, domestic. We actually believe that God created women to be the nurturers. It just makes common sense to us that it would be the mom who stayed home.

 

Yeah, I know that is going to go over like a lead balloon.

 

Not so much the opinion expressed, but the added editorial comments such as the bolded bit, it does come off as sort of, well, negative.

 

astrid

[Daisy]

Yes, posts such as this:

 

 

 

Not so much the opinion expressed, but the added editorial comments such as the bolded bit, it does come off as sort of, well, negative.

 

astrid

 

LOL. The only reason I added the gasp was as some sort of comic relief. I though the post would likely be inflammatory enough so I thought to inject a bit of humor.

 

I'm not likely to get bent out of shape by this topic.

[HSMom2One]

I do not identify as a feminist. I do believe in equal pay for equal work. I believe women should have the same educational opportunities and benefits as men. I am grateful to the suffragettes and those who fought for civil rights for the benefits they have afforded me and most other women today. I had my degree long before my husband did and out-earned him for many years and worked full time and cared for our young children while he completed school. I am blessed to have a husband who respected me enough to allow me to choose whether to continue to pursue my career or to choose to give it up completely to raise our family. In the same way, I am grateful to those who fought for civil rights and have made it possible for me to enjoy a bi-racial marriage with hardly a ripple in society.

 

However, there are several points that I consider integral to the label of feminist to which I will never agree. I think that the man-hating element, as well as the folks who attempted to deny the differences between men and women which extend beyond difference in genitalia, have done a great disservice to the cause. As a mother of four sons, I will never accept the status quo that is now commonly accepted and propagated in modern media of men as the bumbling, incompetent idiots while women are the cool-headed, consummate professionals. I'd much rather prefer an honest dialogue on the genuine merits and dispositions of both men and women, while respecting and encouraging folks of either gender in whatever productive pursuit they are passionate about. (My comment: AMEN sister!!!)

It is when the push for equal rights tips over into specific racial or gender preferences that I must abandon my support for the cause. Inequality and segregation of resources and opportunities is immoral, in my opinion, regardless of which race or gender under discussion. (My comment: I agree! How insightful and well stated.)

 

...

In addition to these objections, I am firmly pro-life and it seems to me that at this time, feminism is so very intertwined with the pro-choice movement that a feminist is simply presumed to agree. For this reason alone, despite the number of friends I have who self-identify as feminist and pro-life, nevertheless I could never accept the label for myself.

 

:iagree:

 

Thank you for sharing this Scrappyhappymama. I appreciate your comments a great deal.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

[pdalley]

I do not identify as a feminist. I do believe in equal pay for equal work. I believe women should have the same educational opportunities and benefits as men. I am grateful to the suffragettes and those who fought for civil rights for the benefits they have afforded me and most other women today. I had my degree long before my husband did and out-earned him for many years and worked full time and cared for our young children while he completed school. I am blessed to have a husband who respected me enough to allow me to choose whether to continue to pursue my career or to choose to give it up completely to raise our family. In the same way, I am grateful to those who fought for civil rights and have made it possible for me to enjoy a bi-racial marriage with hardly a ripple in society.

 

However, there are several points that I consider integral to the label of feminist to which I will never agree. I think that the man-hating element, as well as the folks who attempted to deny the differences between men and women which extend beyond difference in genitalia, have done a great disservice to the cause. As a mother of four sons, I will never accept the status quo that is now commonly accepted and propagated in modern media of men as the bumbling, incompetent idiots while women are the cool-headed, consummate professionals. I'd much rather prefer an honest dialogue on the genuine merits and dispositions of both men and women, while respecting and encouraging folks of either gender in whatever productive pursuit they are passionate about.

 

It is when the push for equal rights tips over into specific racial or gender preferences that I must abandon my support for the cause. Inequality and segregation of resources and opportunities is immoral, in my opinion, regardless of which race or gender under discussion.

 

Interestingly, the only backlash I have ever experienced in my bi-racial marriage has been from isolated members of my husband's family, who believe their eligible young men and women should "keep it within their race." Similarly, the only backlash I have ever experienced as a woman, giving up a lucrative career to stay home and raise and educate my children has been from other career women or family members who see my choice as a waste of intelligence, experience and education. In both cases, the very groups that fought for equal rights for themselves now have members who denigrate those who have the temerity to exercise said rights in a way they do not approve of.

 

In addition to these objections, I am firmly pro-life and it seems to me that at this time, feminism is so very intertwined with the pro-choice movement that a feminist is simply presumed to agree. For this reason alone, despite the number of friends I have who self-identify as feminist and pro-life, nevertheless I could never accept the label for myself.

 

:iagree: Very well said. You expressed it much better than I could.

[Daisy]

I know of a few families who share what I am assuming are your religious and philosophical viewpoints toward traditional gender roles and family life. However, sometimes, families find themselves in situation where the mother's paying work is considerably more lucrative and stable than that of the father. Those families have favored pragmatism over principle; I don't know how to word it but it definitely is not intended as snark or gotcha. As I said earlier, generally I trust intelligent reasonable adults to make decisions that are best for them nor would I consider those decisions a betrayal of their principles.

 

My DH could be the bread winner. But, I make twice what he can and frankly he is better at being domestic. He's a better cook and he's better at handling multiple kids.

 

A families decisions are rarely as simple as who has boy parts and who has girl parts. Most people I know IRL don't discuss all of the details of their finances, family dynamics, decision making process, ... They'll say something like "That doesn't work for my family" or "We both need to be working".

 

 

Right. I totally understand this. You won't find me ever being a jerk about other people's choices even if, because of my upbringing and philosophical beliefs, I don't quite "get" those choices.

[Hannah C.]

Growing up, I thought feminists were all of the stereotypical, bra-burning variety. Then I got to college, talked to some older women, and realized that it wasn't so long ago that all the things I was doing and taking for granted would have been unavailable to me 40 years earlier. Going to college, being able to get a job besides teacher, having my own credit cards, having my own bank account...the list went on and on. At this point, I realized that I pretty much had to be a feminist by default. And I'm okay with that. :D

 

I do not identify as feminist, however, principally because I am pro-life. I also disagree with major feminist organizations over birth control and sexual behavior (I don't think birth control is the panacea it's presented as, and I think that promiscuity can be harmful for your health and your heart). According to the major feminist organizations, these things make me anti-woman. I think this is preposterous..but they are much more able to define the word "feminist" than I am.

[Joanne]

I'm almost 46, which should give some context to the rhetoric I heard growing up.

 

I was very much a feminist into and throughout college. Into my first marriage. And then the first pregnancy test came back positive and began a metamorphasis. I could not "go back to work". Instead, I stayed home with 3 closely spaced kids.

 

It was a struggle of a transition, because the voice of feminism of my youth/early adulthood didn't allow for an easy, comfortable transition to being "just" at at home mom. Back then, an organization called "Welcome Home" published some work that was helpful, and the books of Ira Krasnow helped.

 

Homeshooling introduced Mary Pride's "The Way Home" to me, and I'm sad to say, I bought into it and became *anti*feminist.

 

Ultimately, this hurt me.

 

I now identify as a feminist. My constellation of beliefs are what they are, and I think that anyone who buys into the stereotypes of militant, pro-choice, man-hating feminists doesn't do a lot of deep thinking.

 

I think labels and vernacular are helpful, epecially for organizing thought and theory in response to the dominant culture, decisions, and action (which, in the case of the US, is Euro-descendent males).

[elizabeth]

The bolded was an issue as late as the 1970's. My mother and stepfather divorced in 1973. My mother was unable to get a checking account, though the bank was willing to give her a savings account. My grandfather had to be on the account with her. She also needed him to cosign for a car loan, even though she was financially capable of making the payments. Just because she was a woman. No. Other. Reason.

 

She wanted to get life insurance. An insurance salesman sat at our kitchen table and laughed at her. Laughed. Then he told her "If you want life insurance, get a husband. A husband is life insurance." My mother, the feminist, kicked him out.

 

Many young women today take things that they are able to do for granted, and truly don't get what it was like just 30 or 40 years ago.

 

This. Absolutely.

[Haiku]

the subtle women-hating comments I see frequently here.

 

 

And as for what I bolded in your quote; I've NEVER seen that here.

 

I see it frequently here.

 

Tara

[*********]

I see it frequently here.

 

Tara

 

I'm lost. Maybe one of you ladies could PM me and give me an example of this? I feel so dense, not seeing something that some say they see frequently...

[justamouse]

I do not identify as a feminist. I do believe in equal pay for equal work. I believe women should have the same educational opportunities and benefits as men. I am grateful to the suffragettes and those who fought for civil rights for the benefits they have afforded me and most other women today. I had my degree long before my husband did and out-earned him for many years and worked full time and cared for our young children while he completed school. I am blessed to have a husband who respected me enough to allow me to choose whether to continue to pursue my career or to choose to give it up completely to raise our family. In the same way, I am grateful to those who fought for civil rights and have made it possible for me to enjoy a bi-racial marriage with hardly a ripple in society.

 

However, there are several points that I consider integral to the label of feminist to which I will never agree. I think that the man-hating element, as well as the folks who attempted to deny the differences between men and women which extend beyond difference in genitalia, have done a great disservice to the cause. As a mother of four sons, I will never accept the status quo that is now commonly accepted and propagated in modern media of men as the bumbling, incompetent idiots while women are the cool-headed, consummate professionals. I'd much rather prefer an honest dialogue on the genuine merits and dispositions of both men and women, while respecting and encouraging folks of either gender in whatever productive pursuit they are passionate about.

 

It is when the push for equal rights tips over into specific racial or gender preferences that I must abandon my support for the cause. Inequality and segregation of resources and opportunities is immoral, in my opinion, regardless of which race or gender under discussion.

 

Interestingly, the only backlash I have ever experienced in my bi-racial marriage has been from isolated members of my husband's family, who believe their eligible young men and women should "keep it within their race." Similarly, the only backlash I have ever experienced as a woman, giving up a lucrative career to stay home and raise and educate my children has been from other career women or family members who see my choice as a waste of intelligence, experience and education. In both cases, the very groups that fought for equal rights for themselves now have members who denigrate those who have the temerity to exercise said rights in a way they do not approve of.

 

In addition to these objections, I am firmly pro-life and it seems to me that at this time, feminism is so very intertwined with the pro-choice movement that a feminist is simply presumed to agree. For this reason alone, despite the number of friends I have who self-identify as feminist and pro-life, nevertheless I could never accept the label for myself.

:iagree:

[jenangelcat]

I'm lost. Maybe one of you ladies could PM me and give me an example of this? I feel so dense, not seeing something that some say they see frequently...

 

Just do a search for the terms sissy, trashy, cheap, or words that refer to ladies of the night. There's a ton of offensive classist statements as well but that's for another thread.

[edelweiss]

Interesting topic! I've loved reading the perspectives in this thread.

 

I definitely do NOT identify as a feminist. Like others, I might have a "dated" perspective of what it means to be a feminist, but I definitely don't have a positive view and would never identify myself as a feminist.

[astrid]

Just do a search for the terms sissy, trashy, cheap, or words that refer to ladies of the night. There's a ton of offensive classist statements as well but that's for another thread.

 

and:

working mothers

choosing to work for luxuries

pay for a higher lifestyle

keeping up with the Joneses

greedy

daycare

 

That's just a few I can think of off the top of my head.

astrid

[Joanne]

and:

working mothers

choosing to work for luxuries

pay for a higher lifestyle

keeping up with the Joneses

greedy

daycare

 

That's just a few I can think of off the top of my head.

astrid

 

*add

 

selfish

 

"I don't need a brake" and its variants such as "I love my family and am fine being around them 24/7"

 

The assumption(s) of the numbers of superficial divorce

 

The discounting of abuse (when it's verbal)

 

The lack of expectation that women/young women will go to college

 

Many of the public assistance threads have a fair measure of misogyny also

 

Coming back to add that the emphasis on "purity" and "modesty" (and the related making an idol of virginity) falls into this category for me, in many cases

Edited January 6, 2012 by Joanne

[Caroline]

and:

working mothers

choosing to work for luxuries

pay for a higher lifestyle

keeping up with the Joneses

greedy

daycare

 

That's just a few I can think of off the top of my head.

astrid

 

Treating their children like dry cleaning

Taking good paying jobs away from my husband

 

are two more I have seen.

[Jennifer3141]

Treating their children like dry cleaning

Taking good paying jobs away from my husband

 

are two more I have seen.

 

 

:iagree::iagree:

 

I walked away laughing when I read that post. Laughing in a very dark manner... :glare:

[mlbuchina]

I do not identify as a feminist. I do believe in equal pay for equal work. I believe women should have the same educational opportunities and benefits as men. I am grateful to the suffragettes and those who fought for civil rights for the benefits they have afforded me and most other women today. I had my degree long before my husband did and out-earned him for many years and worked full time and cared for our young children while he completed school. I am blessed to have a husband who respected me enough to allow me to choose whether to continue to pursue my career or to choose to give it up completely to raise our family. In the same way, I am grateful to those who fought for civil rights and have made it possible for me to enjoy a bi-racial marriage with hardly a ripple in society.

 

However, there are several points that I consider integral to the label of feminist to which I will never agree. I think that the man-hating element, as well as the folks who attempted to deny the differences between men and women which extend beyond difference in genitalia, have done a great disservice to the cause. As a mother of four sons, I will never accept the status quo that is now commonly accepted and propagated in modern media of men as the bumbling, incompetent idiots while women are the cool-headed, consummate professionals. I'd much rather prefer an honest dialogue on the genuine merits and dispositions of both men and women, while respecting and encouraging folks of either gender in whatever productive pursuit they are passionate about.

 

It is when the push for equal rights tips over into specific racial or gender preferences that I must abandon my support for the cause. Inequality and segregation of resources and opportunities is immoral, in my opinion, regardless of which race or gender under discussion.

 

Interestingly, the only backlash I have ever experienced in my bi-racial marriage has been from isolated members of my husband's family, who believe their eligible young men and women should "keep it within their race." Similarly, the only backlash I have ever experienced as a woman, giving up a lucrative career to stay home and raise and educate my children has been from other career women or family members who see my choice as a waste of intelligence, experience and education. In both cases, the very groups that fought for equal rights for themselves now have members who denigrate those who have the temerity to exercise said rights in a way they do not approve of.

 

In addition to these objections, I am firmly pro-life and it seems to me that at this time, feminism is so very intertwined with the pro-choice movement that a feminist is simply presumed to agree. For this reason alone, despite the number of friends I have who self-identify as feminist and pro-life, nevertheless I could never accept the label for myself.

 

Dear Scrappyhappymama,

Please to be writing all my posts from now on. MmmK? :D

[astrid]

*add

 

selfish

 

"I don't need a brake" and its variants such as "I love my family and am fine being around them 24/7"

 

The assumption(s) of the numbers of superficial divorce

 

The discounting of abuse (when it's verbal)

 

The lack of expectation that women/young women will go to college

 

Many of the public assistance threads have a fair measure of misogyny also

 

OH! YES! Forgot this one!

welfare---

public assistance---

 

 

astrid

[Laurie4b]

The bolded was an issue as late as the 1970's. My mother and stepfather divorced in 1973. My mother was unable to get a checking account, though the bank was willing to give her a savings account. My grandfather had to be on the account with her. She also needed him to cosign for a car loan, even though she was financially capable of making the payments. Just because she was a woman. No. Other. Reason.

 

She wanted to get life insurance. An insurance salesman sat at our kitchen table and laughed at her. Laughed. Then he told her "If you want life insurance, get a husband. A husband is life insurance." My mother, the feminist, kicked him out.

 

Many young women today take things that they are able to do for granted, and truly don't get what it was like just 30 or 40 years ago.

 

Where was that? I had a checking account in the 70s as a single woman in the South without my daddy signing on.

[Canadianmumof5]

:iagree: and well said! I had 2 sils that looked down on me because I chose to be a SAHM over having a career. They still do.

 

I cannot agree with the feminist view that the only difference between men and women is their reproductive organs. While I believe that we are all of equal value, I also believe that men and women are just made differently, not just physically but emotionally and psychologically as well. None of those differences make us superior or inferior, however.

 

I also absolutely cannot get on board with the feminist stance on abortion. I believe it is self-centered and demeans us as women .

:iagree:

[TravelingChris]

I am older than many here on this board and I remember when police and firemen where actually men. I believe in equal rights and equal pay. I don't normally call myself a feminist because of the political baggage. I am not a Democrat. I am pro-life.

 

I have known some SAHD. That doesn't bother me. What I see all too often as a result of feminism though is men who don't work and depend on wives or girlfriends for all finances. These men are often getting in trouble with the law and expect their wives or girlfriends to pay fines, bail money, etc. I am not talking about legitimate SAHDs. I am talking about the big increase in women being the sole breadwinners in their house, not from agreement but from the men being lazy or in trouble with the law. I don't think this is progress in women's rights. Oh and the men I am talking about don't keep house either. They sit and watch tv or play video games but actually cleaning, cooking, shopping, etc. is not done by them. That is a far cry from the SAHD dads who were homeschooling their kids and taking care of the house.

[cottonmama]

I am not a feminist. If the only thing about feminism that I disagreed with were its pro-abortion message, that would be enough.

 

Most of what I hear from modern feminists are complaints about how women aren't equally represented in academia or science careers, or how men get paid better. Some feminists criticize women for not choosing the academic, scientific, or high-paying paths. Other feminists criticize society for keeping these opportunities from women. As a woman who went to engineering school and kept up with the men just fine, and has now chosen to stay home with my children, I find both positions insulting.

 

I think the original feminists were justified in demanding equal opportunities and pay. I think they were wrong to despise motherhood as they did. So even though they fought for some rights I enjoy, the whole feminist movement leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.

[Haiku]

I'm lost. Maybe one of you ladies could PM me and give me an example of this? I feel so dense, not seeing something that some say they see frequently...

 

The main thing that comes to mind is the attitude often proffered about single mothers and/or welfare, but I have seen it in discussions of working, religion, homeschooling, birth control, housecleaning, politics ... you name it.

 

Tara

[Garga]

Where was that? I had a checking account in the 70s as a single woman in the South without my daddy signing on.

 

 

The pp said that her mom couldn't get the checking account in 1973. What year were you getting your checking account? I ask because I dimly remember reading an article years ago that outlined a bunch of laws addressed these issues and most of them went into effect right around 1972-1974. If you had your checking account in the mid-late 70's, you were benefiting from the new policies.

[YLVD]

I've wanted to ask this for a while but have been hesitant due to the subtle women-hating comments I see frequently here. Feminism seems to be the themeof the moment so here's my question.

 

When I hear women say they aren't feminists I wonder how that is even possible. Feminism is about equal rights and opportunities for women. That's it. It's not about bra burning (myth) or man-hating or any other extremists views that most people associate with some feminist they heard about once. Equal rights and opportunities.

 

So how can a woman not be a feminist? Do women not deserve equal rights and opportunities? Really?

 

Explain.

 

:iagree:

 

I think it's crazy, to be honest. People say that they don't identify with this or that. It doesn't matter. It's equal rights, period

[Lady Florida.]

Where was that? I had a checking account in the 70s as a single woman in the South without my daddy signing on.

 

Right here in the same Florida city that I still live in.

[Lady Florida.]

The pp said that her mom couldn't get the checking account in 1973. What year were you getting your checking account? I ask because I dimly remember reading an article years ago that outlined a bunch of laws addressed these issues and most of them went into effect right around 1972-1974. If you had your checking account in the mid-late 70's, you were benefiting from the new policies.

 

Yep. I'm the pp. I had a checking account in 1975 when I left home for my junior year of college (got an AA from community college first). Just 2 years earlier my mother couldn't get one without a man on the account.

[Scarymelon]

I enjoy reading the comments in this thread and think it is very relevant to keep talking about what being a feminist even means. I am in my early 30's but had a Mother who was older and very much fit the 50s housewife archetype. There are a lot of things in my life that I am grateful are not the same as my Mothers. We have talked a lot about the opportunities that I had that she did not, although she actively discouraged me from going to graduate school because she didn't think I could do that and be a Mom, too. I also went to an all women's college and most of my friends identify as feminists. I can't think of any of them that actually would fit the profile of a "man hating radical, femi nazi, etc.". Most of us (including the lesbians) are boringly domestic, having children, and are trying to balance work/life together.

[jenangelcat]

I am not a feminist. If the only thing about feminism that I disagreed with were its pro-abortion message, that would be enough.

 

 

 

Nobody is pro-abortion. It's called pro-choice for a reason.

[mlbuchina]

Nobody is pro-abortion. It's called pro-choice for a reason.

 

:confused::001_huh:

[Catwoman]

Just 2 years earlier my mother couldn't get one without a man on the account.

 

Wow. I have never heard of anything like that.

 

What did widows do when they wanted to open an account?

 

Are you sure this wasn't something specific to a particular bank? In my family, women always had their own bank accounts and brokerage accounts, owned their own real estate and businesses, etc. -- and I'm talking about the 1940's and earlier, not the 1970's.

[Joanne]

Nobody is pro-abortion. It's called pro-choice for a reason.

 

 

 

:confused::001_huh:

 

Do you not understand the distinction? Millions and millions of people have personal opinions of abortion that are bifurcated from what they think should be done politically.

 

Pro-abortion is an assumption, and usually an insult.

[Lady Florida.]

Wow. I have never heard of anything like that.

 

What did widows do when they wanted to open an account?

 

Are you sure this wasn't something specific to a particular bank? In my family, women always had their own bank accounts and brokerage accounts, owned their own real estate and businesses, etc. -- and I'm talking about the 1940's and earlier, not the 1970's.

 

We only had a few banks in town at that time, all were local, and none would give her a checking account. Savings account, yes. But a checking account has money going out, which means money must come in. The attitude was a man is a breadwinner, if a woman works it's for extra money, not to support a family. I was a senior in high school, so it's not as though I was too young to remember it correctly. In fact, my mother had long talks with me about it while she was teaching me to be an independent woman.

[kiana]

I had been under the apparently mistaken impression that feminism meant that we were all equal and could make our own choices about lifestyle. I guess I was wrong. DH could wear the apron and that was cool, but I could not.

 

So I no longer identify myself as a feminist. I guess I need a label for what I believe now. I believe that men and women are both intelligent and both designed by a Creator to have complementary roles in child-rearing that do not lessen the intrinsic value or worth of either gender. I believe that people of either gender have responsibility for their actions and are accountable for their choices. I believe that since it takes two adults to create a child that raising that child should ideally involve two adults, because raising a child is an intense and overwhelming responsibility and really challenging for one adult to do on his or her own. I believe that any family is enhanced when a parent chooses to stay at home and focus his or her energies and talents on the home and family. Single parents and families with two fulltime working parents mean that there is sacrifice and hardship involved in maintaining that home and a family, and these families deserve recognition and respect for their efforts.

 

Hmm....maybe I am a personist? A familist? I'll work on a label :tongue_smilie:

 

When you figure out your label, add me to it :D

[pdalley]

Never mind

[Word Nerd]

Pro-abortion is an assumption, and usually an insult.

 

So is "anti-choice."

[Aelwydd]

:confused::001_huh:

 

She means there is a difference between being "pro-abortion" and "pro-choice." One position connotes a preference and an emphasis on abortion, as if desiring abortions is the end-all and be-all of folks who support it being legalized. The other position is fixated rather on the choice itself, whether that choice be to continue or discontinue a pregnancy.

 

Most people who are pro-choice would not consider themselves "pro-abortion"--that is, preferring or desiring for abortion to be the de facto end of any given pregnancy. In fact, many actually consider abortion to be a sad-but-still-necessary option. They do not want a pregnancy to end in abortion, but they recognize that there are certain situations where it would be the least damaging option.

 

I'm pro-choice, and I feel that human life is sacred. I regard abortion as sometimes being the "lesser-of-two-evils." Most of the time, I think that abortion should be avoided, and I do not support it past a certain point at all. So even though I do feel there are circumstances that warrant ending a pregnancy like that, I still regard it as an "evil."

 

This is why I, personally, would be offended if someone called me "pro-abortion."

[Aelwydd]

So is "anti-choice."

 

Yes, which is why I don't use that label.

[pfamilygal]

There are many in my peer group who act like feminist is a dirty word. Especially for Christians.

 

But I am a proud feminist! I believe the men and women were BOTH created as equals in the sight of God and in His image. We are both equally necessary and our roles are not automatically determined by our genitals. God gifts men and women equally and freely and we have a duty to use the gifts He has given us and not be shackled by what others think we should or should not do, based on the possession of ovaries or testes.

 

I don't think women are better than men anymore than I think men are better than women. We are equals and interdependent.

 

I was much more of a complimentarian/women-submit type Christian until I had daughters. As I look at my strong, brilliant, creative daughters I can't imagine telling them that they cannot dream or do anything because of their genitalia. I cannot imagine telling them that their brothers are free to do anything they feel God has called them to, because they have penises. But because of their inferior vaginas, they are made for only motherhood and being a man's sidekick.

 

What a load of hogwash. God needs all of us serving Him with all our gifts. Motherhood is a fabulous calling. But so is singleness. And so is being married and childless and serving God the way He calls you. It doesn't diminish motherhood to say that other callings are equally valid and valuable in the sight of God.

 

(Can you tell this is a hot button of mine? I've been blogging about it a lot lately.)

[Catwoman]

We only had a few banks in town at that time, all were local, and none would give her a checking account. Savings account, yes. But a checking account has money going out, which means money must come in. The attitude was a man is a breadwinner, if a woman works it's for extra money, not to support a family. I was a senior in high school, so it's not as though I was too young to remember it correctly. In fact, my mother had long talks with me about it while she was teaching me to be an independent woman.

 

Yikes! That's just awful! We were all in the NYC area, so maybe things were more progressive there? (I don't know; I'm just wondering.)

[kiana]

I'm pro-choice, and I feel that human life is sacred. I regard abortion as sometimes being the "lesser-of-two-evils." Most of the time, I think that abortion should be avoided, and I do not support it past a certain point at all. So even though I do feel there are circumstances that warrant ending a pregnancy like that, I still regard it as an "evil."

 

One of the nice things about starting a thread late is that other people have already eloquently stated my feelings and I can just agree with them. This is where I am too.

[Aelwydd]

There are many in my peer group who act like feminist is a dirty word. Especially for Christians.

 

But I am a proud feminist! I believe the men and women were BOTH created as equals in the sight of God and in His image. We are both equally necessary and our roles are not automatically determined by our genitals. God gifts men and women equally and freely and we have a duty to use the gifts He has given us and not be shackled by what others think we should or should not do, based on the possession of ovaries or testes.

 

I don't think women are better than men anymore than I think men are better than women. We are equals and interdependent.

 

I was much more of a complimentarian/women-submit type Christian until I had daughters. As I look at my strong, brilliant, creative daughters I can't imagine telling them that they cannot dream or do anything because of their genitalia. I cannot imagine telling them that their brothers are free to do anything they feel God has called them to, because they have penises. But because of their inferior vaginas, they are made for only motherhood and being a man's sidekick.

 

What a load of hogwash. God needs all of us serving Him with all our gifts. Motherhood is a fabulous calling. But so is singleness. And so is being married and childless and serving God the way He calls you. It doesn't diminish motherhood to say that other callings are equally valid and valuable in the sight of God.

 

(Can you tell this is a hot button of mine? I've been blogging about it a lot lately.)

 

Awesome post. Me likey.

 

 

For practical purposes, I say I'm a feminist when folks ask. Philosophically however, I actually identify as an egalitarian.

[annandatje]

I have no problem labeling myself a feminist. In harsh patriarchal societies, women and children bore the brunt of suffering. I want my own daughters as well those women in the harsher countries to have access to reproductive choices. Maybe it is because we live in a relatively rich egalitarian country that allows us to take for granted advances made those women who were willing to put their lives on line to right wrongs. In more complex societies, women still continue to earn less than men for a variety of reasons. Feminism not only attempts to bring awareness to these ills but also to place value on the unpaid work that women do. Feminism was the impetus for the protest against the Taliban treatment of women when Texas governor hosted them back in 90s; I don't recall the specifics. A movement is far bigger than an inflammatory comment made by one person and bigger than theatrics like bra burning.

[Jayne J]

I thought I was a feminist until I left work to stay home with my children. I was then told, rudely, repeatedly, and haughtily that I was not only not a feminist but was setting back the cause. So I packed my tent and left the camp. I guess I am just a housewife now.