how should a Christian handle...

[jackson'smama]

Thanksgiving dinner with a relative who is loud, obnoxious, uses at least 10 cuss words per sentence NO MATTER WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT, has been in trouble most of his life and recently got out of prison, is raising his children to be just like him, is known by every law enforcement officer in the county - and your dh is one of them.

 

i am having a hard time with this and feeling very conflicted between saying we won't associate with him (if nothing else for the sake of our very young children) and feeling like, as Christians, it is not our place to judge and we should lovingly accept him into our home. plus, i am very close to his mother and want to spend time with her but feel wrong for NOT wanting to spend time with him.

 

any advice?

[Frenchie]

:grouphug:

 

I would welcome him into my home, provided I didn't believe him to be any danger to my kids. If he uses inappropriate language around them, perhaps pull him aside and politely ask him to watch the cursing around the littles. I do not it would be worth the hurt it might cause with his mother to leave him out of Thanksgiving.

 

Good luck.

[SonshineLearner]

Will he willingly speak appropriately if you make a point of it? I might make a point of saying when you start... (if there are children other than your own it would be easiest)

Ok everyone, today we're going to remember to take our shoes off at the door... and the kids say, "take our shoes off at the door".... Walk in the house "Walk in the house" and "Not say 'Naughty words'."

Get everyone in the swing of "helping the kids recite the rules" before you start the day out...

Just a thought :)

[Parrothead]

There is no reason, as a Christian, that you should subject yourself and your children to that kind of behavior.

[spaceman]

Depends on the invitation scenario. Where he'd be if you didn't invite him, etc.

 

We have friends like this and just limit contact when our small children are present.

 

Having your get-together not at your home (so you can leave when you want), having an end time, having it late and putting your kids to sleep during the get-together or as an excuse for an ending time are all ideas I'd think about.

 

Good luck! It's hard balancing being open to those who may need you, yet providing an innocent environment for your children.

 

It also depends on your children's ages.

[DawnM]

Your house, your rules. This applies to everyone who enters, period.

 

If he can't abide by that, he can leave until he can.

 

A simple, "We love you, we don't wish to NOT have you, but you will need to do X, Y, and Z while in our home or we cannot have you. Can you abide by our rules?"

 

I find people like this often choose not to come and then play the victim. That isn't your issue though, that would be his should he so choose to make it his.

 

Dawn

[6packofun]

I'd make an effort to remind the person gently, lightly at the start that there are kids present and to try to reign in the language a bit. Not much more than that.

 

BUT, if this suits your family--and it would mine--you could always bring out a buzzer (like the one from the Taboo game) or some other noisemaker and bleep him every time with some sort of fun/silly consequence. Hey, let the kids do it. Having it brought to his attention in that way may make him more aware. (Or, it may tick him off, so if this is his personality, ignore this advice. LOL :D )

[Joanne]

I am not sure what you are looking for.

 

It seems like a reasonable response to not want to be around him and limit exposure to your kids.

 

If you assert a boundary, don't expect him (and those around him) to agree with you. Don't expect him to change. Don't engage.

[Impish]

Well, the first thing that popped into my head was, "Bad company corrupts good character."

 

Honestly, I wouldn't invite him. But, I also have a 13 day old baby and other health issues on top of being post partum, so I'm completely, totally, and utterly exhausted. I just wouldn't have the physical stamina to deal with the slightest bit more stress at this point in time.

 

If I were healthier and less hormonal, my pov might be different...but by the sounds of it, this isn't a close family member, so I'd probably go with the simplify my stress plan anyways.

 

Ask yourself: is there a positive this person will bring to your children? Is there something that this person brings to the table/relationship that is very positive, unique? If not, then why put up with their negatives?

[jackson'smama]

I am not sure what you are looking for.

 

It seems like a reasonable response to not want to be around him and limit exposure to your kids.

 

If you assert a boundary, don't expect him (and those around him) to agree with you. Don't expect him to change. Don't engage.

 

i've dealt with this for a long time, but now that i have small children (7,4,1) and a husband who works with those who have arrested him, it's stickier. if it were me, i could go along and ignore it. but with kids, the cursing is an issue for me. for dh, he is uncomfortable "socializing" with criminals, to be blunt and for whatever reason, my relative zeroes right in on my dh like he's his buddy.

 

the dinner is at my mom's but she is in agreement with me and has already said she's telling him right off the bat about the language.

 

but it's just the fact that we are "socializing" with a known criminal. i'm not worried about safety - it's more of a comfort level for my husband, which affects me.

 

and from a religious standpoint, it's a feeling of loving my neighbor and not judging, and what would Jesus do, and all that that leaves me feeling that i'm not being a Christian if i am wanting to not spend time with him. I was embarassed that I ran into him at the county fair this year and people saw me talking to him. then, i felt bad for being embarassed.

[FiveOaksAcademy]

If this is a person who wants to change and cares about others, it would be one thing. If he has an unwillingness to be appropriate in a family situation like that, I wouldn't allow his influence on my children. I used to think I needed to be kind and loving all. the. time and would make excuses for people. Some people are purposefully blind and purposefully jerks. I'm seeing now that making excuses for people and putting up with purposeful bad behavior causes my children to either a) allow themselves to be walked on like doormats, or b) to begin to make excuses for sinful behavior and make compromises in moral areas that the Bible speaks directly against. I've not conquered this, but I'm working through it with God's help.

 

One of my children had an opportunity to do something with a friend whose parents I trust, at their own home. This friend has extended family with a child molestor grandfather who has been enabled through the years through the hush-hush nonsense. During this opportunity, there was talk of going into the home of some of these extended family members. I won't allow my kids even in the same home with the people who made excuses for, and swept under the rug, the grandfather's sick behavior. How could I trust that??? No, they didn't do it themselves, but I believe there is enough dysfunction there that I can't allow them anywhere near!! It seems rude to some of these people...oh well!!

 

Not the same, I know. I'm just seeing more and more with years behind me that I don't need to allow extremely messed up people to have ANY influence on my children at all. Why ruin a perfectly good holiday anyway??

[jackson'smama]

Ask yourself: is there a positive this person will bring to your children? Is there something that this person brings to the table/relationship that is very positive, unique? If not, then why put up with their negatives?

 

don't mean to be mean, but he brings nothing positive to my children. he is my first cousin and i have always been very close to his mother, so that's the problem with not including him. i feel like that's impossible really.

but he's the kind of guy that just isn't nice, but he doesn't know it. like, he's sarcastic and says mean things but thinks they're funny. he's a typical bully that never grew up. he thinks it's appropriate to make a fist at little boys encouraging them, in a playful way, to fight. hard to explain - you kinda have to be there. he actually told my 3 year old son (who is now 7) - you can't come in this house with that shirt on when ds was wearing a red sox shirt (a gift from grandma who just returned from a trip to boston - we aren't fans but the shirt just said "boston" in the red sox style lettering) - he's a yankees fan. 3 year olds don't get that kind of banter, but he's clueless.

 

i just feel like "Jesus would welcome spending t-giving dinner with him, and so should i" ?!?!?!?!?!? but that's so hard!

[Rebecca VA]

How did he get the invitation to your house for Thanksgiving? Did you invite him? And now you're regretting it?

 

Honestly, I wouldn't invite someone like that into my home. Christ socialized with sinners who were ready to repent. It doesn't sound as though this guy is very repentant.

 

If he needs food, send him some. But don't endanger your husband's job (what would his boss say about socializing with this man?) and coarsen your children's minds with his foul language.

[simka2]

This is said very gently. First I understand where your dh is coming from that would be akward.

On the religous side...Jesus associated with criminals and asks us to treat them well. This is someone who cannot pay you back finacially or emtionally for your kindenss and hospitalty. I am not saying subject yourself to abuse, but I am saying you are not harming your kids by demonstrating God's love.

My favorite memories of thanksgiving involve my family inviting some rather unsavory characters to dinner. I learned some very valuable lessons from my family. The one that sticks with me the most was loving on people who could give me nothing in return...just because I can. The language never hurt me. I did not like the cuss words, but in my eyes I saw them as a sign of this persons lack of appropriate social skills...their woundness. It often made me sad for them.

 

 

i've dealt with this for a long time' date=' but now that i have small children (7,4,1) and a husband who works with those who have arrested him, it's stickier. if it were me, i could go along and ignore it. but with kids, the cursing is an issue for me. for dh, he is uncomfortable "socializing" with criminals, to be blunt and for whatever reason, my relative zeroes right in on my dh like he's his buddy.

 

the dinner is at my mom's but she is in agreement with me and has already said she's telling him right off the bat about the language.

 

but it's just the fact that we are "socializing" with a known criminal. i'm not worried about safety - it's more of a comfort level for my husband, which affects me.

 

and from a religious standpoint, it's a feeling of loving my neighbor and not judging, and what would Jesus do, and all that that leaves me feeling that i'm not being a Christian if i am wanting to not spend time with him. I was embarassed that I ran into him at the county fair this year and people saw me talking to him. then, i felt bad for being embarassed.[/quote']

Edited November 21, 2011 by simka2

[Parrothead]

 

i just feel like "Jesus would welcome spending t-giving dinner with him' date=' and so should i" ?!?!?!?!?!? but that's so hard![/quote']

Jesus may welcome him to Thansgiving day dinner, but I betcha there would be a parable or two about getting a clue.

 

Maybe someone ought to tell this guy that he is a jerk.

[redsquirrel]

Well, Jesus might have dinner with him, but would Jesus want him around his kids? That is the question.

 

You have given yourself two jobs here One is to love your neighbor as yourself and the other is to be the best parent you can be. Those two things don't always go together at the same time and there is a season for everything.

 

You may not be able to have him around your kids but that doesn't mean you hate him. You might have dinner with him when your kids are older and better able to understand.

 

He has control over his behavior. He may not exercise it, but he does. Your kids have no control over where they eat Thanksgiving dinner and look to you to make the best decision possible.

[jackson'smama]

my response in bold:

 

How did he get the invitation to your house for Thanksgiving? Did you invite him? And now you're regretting it?

dinner is at my mom's and I said t-giving, but it's actually Christmas dinner - not that that matters. it came about b/c my aunt said, "we've never had Christmas dinner - just the family. i'd love to do that this year." this feels like something we really want to do for her as she lives and has lived a rough life dealing with the shenanigans of her son and grandchildren. it seems like she is owed the nicety of a family dinner, at a bare minimum. it goes without saying that her son and his children and grandchildren would be coming to that dinner.

Honestly, I wouldn't invite someone like that into my home. Christ socialized with sinners who were ready to repent. It doesn't sound as though this guy is very repentant.

no. everything is someone else's fault. he is never to blame. every broken relationship, every crime, etc....he was the innocent victim of all of it.

 

If he needs food, send him some. But don't endanger your husband's job (what would his boss say about socializing with this man?) and coarsen your children's minds with his foul language.

his job is not in jeopardy, it's just dh's preference to limit or eliminate contact. i feel like i'm torn between saying "it's just one time a year" and saying "i'll just tell everybody you're working" when he is actually off that day.

 

 

This is said very gently. First I understand where your dh is coming from that would be akward.

see above :)

On the religous side...Jesus associated with criminals and asks us do to treat them well. This is someone who cannot pay you back finacially or emtionally for your kindenss and hospitalty. I am not saying subject yourself to abuse, but I am saying you are nt harming your kids by demonstrating God's love.

My favorite memories of thanksgiving involve my family inviting some rather unsavory characters to dinner.

aaaagggghhhhh!!!!! it's just so hard! we're not subjecting anyone to "abuse". i have no qualms about telling him to can the language and he'll have some slipups but won't get angry about my requirement for clean talk. the problem is the CONSTANT barage against his childrens' mothers (with his children sitting right there listening), the judicial system, the neighbors, the clerk at the store, you name it. he really has nothing nice to say about anyone and it's just draining to be around him.

Edited November 21, 2011 by jackson'smama
bad at the multi-quote thing!

[FiveOaksAcademy]

Well, Jesus might have dinner with him, but would Jesus want him around his kids? That is the question.

 

You have given yourself two jobs here One is to love your neighbor as yourself and the other is to be the best parent you can be. Those two things don't always go together at the same time and there is a season for everything.

 

You may not be able to have him around your kids but that doesn't mean you hate him. You might have dinner with him when your kids are older and better able to understand.

 

He has control over his behavior. He may not exercise it, but he does. Your kids have no control over where they eat Thanksgiving dinner and look to you to make the best decision possible.

 

:iagree: All of this, particularly the bold. God has opportunities for us to minister to others in life. Some of those opportunities work WHILE we have small children, and some of those opportunities are for later on. We are to trust Him with this and know that He has a plan and we are not always the key to that plan. He can easily send someone else to reach out to this poorly behaved man.

[Julie in CA]

I'm very hesitant to answer--the last time I was asked for a Christian perspective, I ended up on a very unpopular side of the issue. I probably will this time also, but here goes...:001_huh:

 

I would open my home and be hospitable to someone for Thanksgiving even if I considered them a rough character. Even if they cursed. Even if they were loud & obnoxious. The exception to this would be if I felt they were truly an immediate physical danger to my dc.

 

From my perspective, Christians are called upon to not only minister to the unlovely, but to actively look for opportunities to do so. The behaviors you've described this guest as presenting would be an opportunity to talk with my dc about how sad it is that people make such choices, but how the Lord can truly save those we least expect, so we minister to them especially.

 

I'd explain about how the things we do and the way *we* behave can plant the seed for someone, and we might never even know it. I'd also explain it as presenting a sacrifice for (and to) the Lord. I'd also explain how treating rougher people kindly sometimes doesn't even effect change in those people, but that sometimes the fruit is borne in the people who notice us doing it quietly, without fanfare, but with much kindness. The ripple effect, so to speak. :001_smile:

 

Anyway, that's what I would do, as a Christian person. I realize it's not the only way, and that it would be completely within reason for you to feel like it would be better to protect your dc from the bad language, etc. In looking at what will do the dc better good over the longer term, I feel the benefits of teaching them to minister to others outweighs the temporary discomfort of some profanity, etc. It's easy to explain that we don't take on the bad language, but that we do take on and emulate the behavior of Jesus, who did indeed pick some of the "worst of the worst" to hang out with. If it were a daily influence, my opinion would be different. :001_smile:

Edited November 21, 2011 by Julie in CA

[jackson'smama]

Well, Jesus might have dinner with him, but would Jesus want him around his kids? That is the question.

 

You have given yourself two jobs here One is to love your neighbor as yourself and the other is to be the best parent you can be. Those two things don't always go together at the same time and there is a season for everything.

 

You may not be able to have him around your kids but that doesn't mean you hate him. You might have dinner with him when your kids are older and better able to understand.

 

He has control over his behavior. He may not exercise it, but he does. Your kids have no control over where they eat Thanksgiving dinner and look to you to make the best decision possible.

 

:iagree: All of this, particularly the bold. God has opportunities for us to minister to others in life. Some of those opportunities work WHILE we have small children, and some of those opportunities are for later on. We are to trust Him with this and know that He has a plan and we are not always the key to that plan. He can easily send someone else to reach out to this poorly behaved man.

:iagree:I think the problem is I feel like I am hurting my aunt by excluding him or by my dh not showing up (i think the suspicion is there that we aren't "approving" of what he's done). she's old. i hate to even type it, but we all know that no one is here forever. i feel like "it's the least I can do" for someone who means so much to me. she can't help he turned out like crap. but she loves him - he's her son. i feel like in avoiding him we are only hurting her. it's really not possible to no invite him. other than me, mom, dh, and our kids it just my aunt, him, his girlfriend and his kids and grandkids. i think the feeling is more of a "should i be embarassed by him - is that wrong? is it wrong to feel like it's wrong to socialize with someone who rightfully went to prison? my kids don't even know him well enough to realize he was missing for a few years. sad to say those were much more relaxed Christmases!

[simka2]

"aaaagggghhhhh!!!!! it's just so hard! we're not subjecting anyone to "abuse". i have no qualms about telling him to can the language and he'll have some slipups but won't get angry about my requirement for clean talk. the problem is the CONSTANT barage against his childrens' mothers (with his children sitting right there listening), the judicial system, the neighbors, the clerk at the store, you name it. he really has nothing nice to say about anyone and it's just draining to be around him."

I get that. :grouphug: I just wanted you to know that I turned out pretty good, because of my families efforts. Things were often awkward, but it usually looked bad on the one who was making things awkward. My grandfather would simply take me to the living room and get out a chess board. He and I would engage over that. There was always crochet or badminton to keep the kids occupied.

 

I love the fact that my family found a way to do both. Show hospitality to those MUCH less fortunate...and keep the kids safe and occupied. Much of it went over my head until I was much older. I just saw my families efforts to love on those that other people would not include.

 

I will tell you a story. A few years ago my mother was stabbed in the back (literally) by a man in her gallery. As they were wheeling her into the helicopter she was clinging to her friend saying over and over, "It wasn't any of my homeless guys! IT wasn't any of my homeless guys! Tell the police it wasn't them." Her thoughts were that they were not falsely accused on her behalf. It was well known that she chatted, associated and provided for the homeless in her community. (They did find and convict her attacker)

 

 

 

...here is the gut punch. My family was not Christian. They lived it though. :grouphug:

[Sophia]

don't mean to be mean' date=' but he brings nothing positive to my children. he is my first cousin and i have always been very close to his mother, so that's the problem with not including him. i feel like that's impossible really.

but he's the kind of guy that just isn't nice, but he doesn't know it. like, he's sarcastic and says mean things but thinks they're funny. he's a typical bully that never grew up. he thinks it's appropriate to make a fist at little boys encouraging them, in a playful way, to fight. hard to explain - you kinda have to be there. he actually told my 3 year old son (who is now 7) - you can't come in this house with that shirt on when ds was wearing a red sox shirt (a gift from grandma who just returned from a trip to boston - we aren't fans but the shirt just said "boston" in the red sox style lettering) - he's a yankees fan. 3 year olds don't get that kind of banter, but he's clueless.

 

i just feel like "Jesus would welcome spending t-giving dinner with him, and so should i" ?!?!?!?!?!? but that's so hard![/quote']

 

I have relatives like this. We have never told them they are not welcome in our home, but time and the obvious glare of our differing values has put some distance between us. Well that, and we moved five states away ;).

I will say though, that I don't believe our dc being around them was ever a problem. If anything, I would say it kind of worked like a "scared straight" program, lol!

We don't want our dc adopting the values of these particular family members, but we do want our dc to understand that family is family and if they want to join us for Thanksgiving then they're welcome. Especially if it makes a special Aunt appreciative~ I'm closer to my Aunts than their children also.:D

Just my two cents...

[Mrs Mungo]

I think it comes down to this: do you want to have dinner with your aunt or not? If you do, then I'd give the kids a warning about his behavior and let it go. It's one time a year, and I would get over it.

 

BUT, that's easy for me to say, I have lived a minimum of 2,500 miles from my family for almost 20 years. Feel free to take what I say with a grain of salt.

[jackson'smama]

I'm very hesitant to answer--the last time I was asked for a Christian perspective, I ended up on a very unpopular side of the issue. I probably will this time also, but here goes...:001_huh:

 

I would open my home and be hospitable to someone for Thanksgiving even if I considered them a rough character. Even if they cursed. Even if they were loud & obnoxious. The exception to this would be if I felt they were truly an immediate physical danger to my dc.

 

From my perspective, Christians are called upon to not only minister to the unlovely, but to actively look for opportunities to do so. The behaviors you've described this guest as presenting would be an opportunity to talk with my dc about how sad it is that people make such choices, but how the Lord can truly save those we least expect, so we minister to them especially.

 

I'd explain about how the things we do and the way *we* behave can plant the seed for someone, and we might never even know it. I'd also explain it as presenting a sacrifice for (and to) the Lord. I'd also explain how treating rougher people kindly sometimes doesn't even effect change in those people, but that sometimes the fruit is borne in the people who notice us doing it quietly, without fanfare, but with much kindness. The ripple effect, so to speak. :001_smile:

 

Anyway, that's what I would do, as a Christian person. I realize it's not the only way, and that it would be completely within reason for you to feel like it would be better to protect your dc from the bad language, etc. In looking at what will do the dc better good over the longer term, I feel the benefits of teaching them to minister to others outweighs the temporary discomfort of some profanity, etc. It's easy to explain that we don't take on the bad language, but that we do take on and emulate the behavior of Jesus, who did indeed pick some of the "worst of the worst" to hang out with. If it were a daily influence, my opinion would be different. :001_smile:

thanks for this perspective. it references all the feelings running through my head and heart and makes me think of all the things i feel like i *should* be thinking and doing but feel so very hard. honestly if it weren't for dh, it would be easier but I can see how it is so awkward for him and feel torn.

[Old Dominion Heather]

is it wrong to feel like it's wrong to socialize with someone who rightfully went to prison?

 

As a Christian, unless you believe that this person is dangerous, then I would say YES, it is wrong. I say this from the POV of having my only cousin in and out of jail, he is obviously on meth, both uncles are recovering addicts, one has been dangerous in the past, but is doing better with treatment. My kids will spend time with all of them at Christmas/Thanksgiving and they will be nice and polite, because those guys have had a rough life, much rougher than I have or they have. It is one day... not even a whole day, just several hours.

 

Your aunt is old, she loves her son. You said it yourself, she won't be around much longer. The son must love his mom and kids and girlfriend in order to make the effort to spend thanksgiving with them, lots of guys wouldn't make the effort. Lots of guys will spend the day high or drunk.

 

I'd make every effort to distract the little guys, but the type of guy teasing that you mentioned above is just that... guy teasing. No, 3yo's don't get it, but that doesn't mean that just because he doesn't relate well to 3yo's, he is a waste of space. Let dh or a grandparent be on point to play/distract the kids IF it becomes necessary.

[Forget-Me-Not]

I personally wouldn't have someone like that in my home. I don't think it's 'unChristian' or 'judgmental' to protect the sanctity of my home and family, especially where children are involved. Remember that Jesus removed the moneychangers from the temple (aka His Father's house) in order to preserve it's sanctity.

[Laurie4b]

I think this is a complex situation. I've skimmed through the thread, but haven't read every single response.

 

First of all, Jesus associated with obvious sinners because He could see them with his eyes of love. If you're just tolerating dinner with him, it's not the same thing. I would pray first for God to help you see your cousin through His eyes. Secondly, Jesus didn't tolerate sin from anyone--even the religious people who looked pretty good on the outside. He saw right through it and helped them on to repentance. For us, that involves listening to the Holy Spirit for what to say and do. I would suggest that close Christian friends who know you well can help you sort out the decision as to whether to go or not. Then once you're there, it's about listening to the Spirit specifically for words to say, times to be quiet, etc. Prayerfully thinking of how you can love him ahead of time: you know what he says; apparently, he's a predictably broken record. How could you get to the heart of the matter through a question? Rather than focusing on censoring his cussing (not that that is inappropriate, it just only scratches the surface), prayerfully seek God for what is at the heart of things. Anyway, the real key here is prayer and a commitment to love the man, not just show up, bite your tongue, and get through with minimal damage. Perhaps you could do this with your dh.

 

If dh is not into it, perhaps he could volunteer to work Christmas Day. That way, you can truthfully say that he is working and someone would be really grateful for the day off.

 

Many families have an adult table and a kids' table. That might help provide a boundary for the kids.

[alpidarkomama]

We keep our home holy. Anything that crosses that threshhold has to uphold that. So, no, I personally wouldn't have him in my own home, or subject my children to him.

[Danestress]

First, the faith issue. Are you required by your faith to either accept and embrace him or to "not associate" with him? I don't really think either of these is a universal demand. What would look like following Christ for you in this situation might look different from what it would look like for me. So that is something for YOU to pray about what YOU should do. No one, no matter how much scripture they throw in, and give you a 100% "this is what God requires" answer for that based on your post.

 

Secondly, your DH's job. If there is any chance this guy will have drugs on him, DH shouldn't be there. I don't think most law enforcement jobs have a "no hanging out with people who sometimes end up arrested" rule.

 

Thirdly, what your DH wants. This is the one that sort of gets me. It's his Thanksgiving too, and if he doesn't want to hang out there, I am not sure I would force the issue. Can you catch up with the Mom other times? If your DH is really clear about his preference, I wouldn't push hard to convince him to go. For one thing, if I pushed it and this guy really acted like a jerk, DH would blame me, lol. But also, I just think you should defer to your husband if he is stating a clear preference.

[Julie in CA]

:grouphug:

[jackson'smama]

my replies (and question) in bold

you know what he says; apparently, he's a predictably broken record.YES!

 

How could you get to the heart of the matter through a question? Rather than focusing on censoring his cussing (not that that is inappropriate, it just only scratches the surface), prayerfully seek God for what is at the heart of things. could you elaborate on this?

 

Anyway, the real key here is prayer and a commitment to love the man, not just show up, bite your tongue, and get through with minimal damage. Perhaps you could do this with your dh.

dh wants virtually nothing to do with him. that's the hardest part.

 

If dh is not into it, perhaps he could volunteer to work Christmas Day. That way, you can truthfully say that he is working and someone would be really grateful for the day off.

it won't actually be on Christmas day, but he could definitely go to the office to catch up on work at any time so that the kids don't say "why is Daddy staying home? thought you said he had to work?" :001_huh:

 

Many families have an adult table and a kids' table. That might help provide a boundary for the kids. but what about the boundary for the other adults :D? [/QUOTE]

[jackson'smama]

reply in bold

I don't think most law enforcement jobs have a "no hanging out with people who sometimes end up arrested" rule.

actually the agency, and many others, have a "no hanging out with convicted felons" policy but it's hazy in the area of family.

[Zebra]

Your responsibility is to your children, not this man. Your job in life is to live your life the way God wants you to, be married to your DH, and raise your children. Making this guy happy isn't your job in life.

 

Jesus may have hung around with sinners, but he didn't condone or accept wrong behavior. Look what happened when he got angry in the temple.

 

It is right to have boundaries. People should be expected to behave in a reasonable way in your home. You should feel free to talk to him and outline the behavior you expect in your house. He may get angry, and it may be an awkward conversation, but that doesn't mean it's the wrong thing to do.

 

I've struggled with boundary issues and family for years, so :grouphug: to you!!!

[Mrs Mungo]

I personally wouldn't have someone like that in my home.

 

It's not her home.

 

dh wants virtually nothing to do with him. that's the hardest part.

 

Putting up with people who aren't *always* well-behaved because you are related and there are bonds there is an important lesson for children, imo. Your dh should think about whether the kids will be able to tolerate him when he's old and crotchety. ;)

[Carol in Cal.]

I agree with Julie. And I do understand that this is a hard saying.

 

:grouphug:

 

I would draw the line at staying there.

 

I would have the discussions with the children about how these poor choices are an issue. I would try to redirect bad conversation and talk about bean dip subjects a lot.

 

I have experience with this. My FOO is very disfunctional. I never, ever have left my DD alone with or vulnerable to people who are physically abusive. However, I have actively redirected verbal abuse, and pretty successfully at times, and have dealt with inappropriate conversation in various ways, but never by boycotting completely.

 

In my DH's family, the n-word is sometimes used. When DD was young, I told me DH that I don't want her learning it from them, and that I won't stay in a home where it is used, while she is so young. (However, we would still have visited, but just not stayed right in the house the whole time. They live quite a distance away.) He had a word with someone who had a word with someone else, and it stopped. I feel very fortunate that it settled down so easily. I wish that things had gone like that with my FOO, but anyway, I never broke the relationships, although I let them go when others did. That is because, and ONLY because, I believe that Christ's love shows itself in those ways. It's not easy.

[Lovedtodeath]

Well, Jesus might have dinner with him, but would Jesus want him around his kids? That is the question.

 

You have given yourself two jobs here One is to love your neighbor as yourself and the other is to be the best parent you can be. Those two things don't always go together at the same time and there is a season for everything.

 

You may not be able to have him around your kids but that doesn't mean you hate him. You might have dinner with him when your kids are older and better able to understand.

 

He has control over his behavior. He may not exercise it, but he does. Your kids have no control over where they eat Thanksgiving dinner and look to you to make the best decision possible.

I think it would be a good opportunity for the kids to know that we reach out in love to people who do not yet have control over sins such as cussing... Many of us even those with God's spirit have a sin that we struggle with.

 

It is one or two days out of the whole year... is he really going to affect you and your children's behavior (thus being a bad association) in such a short time?

 

I think that we would prepare our kids ahead of time by talking to them about how it isn't our place to judge others, but our standards are different from this behavior and why.

[QueenCat]

Thanksgiving dinner with a relative who is loud' date=' obnoxious, uses at least 10 cuss words per sentence NO MATTER WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT, has been in trouble most of his life and recently got out of prison, is raising his children to be just like him, is known by every law enforcement officer in the county - and your dh is one of them.

 

i am having a hard time with this and feeling very conflicted between saying we won't associate with him (if nothing else for the sake of our very young children) and feeling like, as Christians, it is not our place to judge and we should lovingly accept him into our home. plus, i am very close to his mother and want to spend time with her but feel wrong for NOT wanting to spend time with him.

 

any advice?[/quote']

 

Personally, if I didn't think he was a danger to my children, yes, for a few hours, we would be fine. In fact, have been. Although, dh's cousins tend to leave the language at the door when their momma is around, which helps. If you met them all, you'd guess wrong on which one was the felon. Judging and discernment are not the same thing. Please note these are issues of concerns to many parents, not just Christians. Although I am a Christian, I do have friends who are not. They would have the same concerns about making sure their kids are safe and not hearing the bad language. Not believing in Christ doesn't mean one acts bad, and doesn't want the best for their family.

[Mrs Mungo]

My kids will spend time with all of them at Christmas/Thanksgiving and they will be nice and polite, because those guys have had a rough life, much rougher than I have or they have. It is one day... not even a whole day, just several hours.

 

I think that we would prepare our kids ahead of time by talking to them about how it isn't our place to judge others, but our standards are different from this behavior and why.

 

I think the above points are very good ones.

 

And I *do personally* know that this can be very difficult, trust me.

 

Although I am a Christian, I do have friends who are not. They would have the same concerns about making sure their kids are safe and not hearing the bad language. Not believing in Christ doesn't mean one acts bad, and doesn't want the best for their family.

 

I think her question was more about her responsibilities as a Christian to love this person. I don't think she meant to imply that Christians *necessarily* have a higher standard of behavior.

[jackson'smama]

. Please note these are issues of concerns to many parents, not just Christians. Although I am a Christian, I do have friends who are not. They would have the same concerns about making sure their kids are safe and not hearing the bad language. Not believing in Christ doesn't mean one acts bad, and doesn't want the best for their family.

 

I didn't mean to imply that this was a Christian issue in that way. Obviously, no parent wants to put their child in unsafe situations, or whathaveyou.

 

My inquiry for the Christian perspective was more of "am I being 'un-Christ-like by not wanting to have Christmas dinner with this guy?" and if so, how can I change the way I'm feeling about the situation. I am a Christian but just recently returning to the church and we are becoming more spiritual as a family so in years past, I would have said to my mom, who is hosting this whole thing, "we don't wanna hang out with him." and she would have known why and my dh and i would have griped about going, but we would have gritted our teeth and went. now, i'm feeling that it feels wrong to feel that way as a Christian, but i don't really know if i should feel bad about feeling that way, and if indeed it IS wrong, how do i move past that. make sense? sorry if i offended.

[Danestress]

If the department has a policy of no hanging out with convicted felons, and this guy is a felon, why not just fall back on that? Even if it's "hazy," it seems like a good excuse and your husband doesn't want to do this. It's his job. Why would you even consider making him hang out with a person he doesn't want to hang out with when it could put his job in peril just because you can interpret a rule to make it okay?

 

Have you actually gotten a copy of this department policy in writing? Maybe if you read the actual document, it will clarify things.

[Garga]

Jesus was pretty much universally gentle and kind to "sinners." The people that he was always yelling at were the Jewish leaders of the day who were supposed to know better. (Those were the money changers he threw out of the temple--the leaders. Not the everyday person.) I'm not sure where people are getting that Jesus only hung around sinners who were ready to repent. It doesn't say that, or even indicate that, in the bible.

 

I agree with another poster that if there are a few issues here. If it's a matter of your dh and his job and he can't hang around with a convicted criminal, then it's a done deal. Don't hang around with him.

 

However, if dh's job doesn't restrict you, and if you believe God has called us to show his love to our fellow man (the way Jesus himself did), then you need to do so. The problem is that you're trying to force it. I agree with what another poster said (and I don't remember the exact words) about asking God to show you how to see this man thru God's eyes--as a precious human who Jesus loved enough to die for. Don't forget, "For God so loved the world that he gave..." It doesn't say, "For God so loved the good people that he gave..." So many Christians seem to forget how God really, truly LOVES and adores all these other people around us on this planet. God made this man on purpose and loves him dearly.

 

Until you can see him that way, you might want to stay away, or you'll just end up looking like a self-righteous Christian. (Which won't be your intent--but it will come thru.) Showing someone God's love must come from the heart. If it's not from the heart, then be careful, because you won't be representing God, and you could do more damage than good.

 

To me, this would be a perfect opportunity to act out your faith--if you are genuine about it. It will help you draw closer to God, maybe it will help him to draw closer to God and it will provide a valuable lesson to your children on how to love the unlovely.

 

I also see nothing wrong with asking him to watch the language around the kids.

Edited November 21, 2011 by Garga

[jackson'smama]

If the department has a policy of no hanging out with convicted felons, and this guy is a felon, why not just fall back on that? Even if it's "hazy," it seems like a good excuse and your husband doesn't want to do this. It's his job. Why would you even consider making him hang out with a person he doesn't want to hang out with when it could put his job in peril just because you can interpret a rule to make it okay?

 

Have you actually gotten a copy of this department policy in writing? Maybe if you read the actual document, it will clarify things.

his job is not in danger. that is of absolutely no concern. it's more of a "principle of the matter" sort of thing for him professionally, and i guess personally as well.

i don't think i'd feel comfortable saying "he can't come because it's a work policy". i'd rather just tell them he's working and he can go to the office for a bit while we eat dinner. he hasn't said he isn't going, but i know how he feels about it.

Edited November 21, 2011 by jackson'smama
didn't mean to bold it

[QueenCat]

I think the above points are very good ones.

 

And I *do personally* know that this can be very difficult, trust me.

 

 

 

I think her question was more about her responsibilities as a Christian to love this person. I don't think she meant to imply that Christians *necessarily* have a higher standard of behavior.

 

It was kind of hard to tell...

[QueenCat]

I didn't mean to imply that this was a Christian issue in that way. Obviously' date=' no parent wants to put their child in unsafe situations, or whathaveyou.

 

My inquiry for the Christian perspective was more of "am I being 'un-Christ-like by not wanting to have Christmas dinner with this guy?" and if so, how can I change the way I'm feeling about the situation. I am a Christian but just recently returning to the church and we are becoming more spiritual as a family so in years past, I would have said to my mom, who is hosting this whole thing, "we don't wanna hang out with him." and she would have known why and my dh and i would have griped about going, but we would have gritted our teeth and went. now, i'm feeling that it feels wrong to feel that way [i']as a Christian[/i], but i don't really know if i should feel bad about feeling that way, and if indeed it IS wrong, how do i move past that. make sense? sorry if i offended.

 

Didn't mean to offend, it was kind of hard to tell. You are human, like the rest of us; it's normal to feel this way. You have some time to pray and reflect on the issue. I encourage you to do so.

[gardenmom5]

Provided he currently has no warrants for his arrest, I would allow him to come after giving him a talking to about the swearing is NOT welcome. ever time he swore, I'd ask him to repeat it until he stops swearing. (even if you are asking him to say the same thing a dozen times.) Most people who swear that much, really aren't aware of it.

 

Most families have at least one colorful character who tries their patience. yours seems very good at it.

[happypamama]

Wow, what a hard situation.

 

I think it is okay, as a Christian, to associate with him, including dinner. None of us are better than others; we're all sinners. Jesus died for all of us. That doesn't mean you have to be best buddies with him, but as an opportunity to show him love and care, dinner would be okay.

 

That being said, I'd also have no problem asking him to stop the filthy language in front of the children. (And I wouldn't associate regularly with someone who used a lot of bad language, but once or twice a year -- I'd get over it.) Or if he gets overly negative, I'd say something to try to snap him out of it and get him thinking on the positive side. I have squashed bad language, s*xual discussions, etc. in front of my children (and am prepared to step hard on anyone who mentions the Penn State thing this weekend, for instance). We're all sinners, but I'm also not going to condone sin or discussion of reveling in sin in front of my children.

[jackson'smama]

Jesus was pretty much universally gentle and kind to "sinners." The people that he was always yelling at were the Jewish leaders of the day who were supposed to know better. (Those were the money changers he threw out of the temple--the leaders. Not the everyday person.) I'm not sure where people are getting that Jesus only hung around sinners who were ready to repent. It doesn't say that, or even indicate that, in the bible.

 

I agree with another poster that if there are a few issues here. If it's a matter of your dh and his job and he can't hang around with a convicted criminal, then it's a done deal. Don't hang around with him.

 

However, if dh's job doesn't restrict you, and if you believe God has called us to show his love to our fellow man (the way Jesus himself did), then you need to do so. The problem is that you're trying to force it. I agree with what another poster said (and I don't remember the exact words) about asking God to show you how to see this man thru God's eyes--as a precious human who Jesus loved enough to die for. Don't forget, "For God so loved the world that he gave..." It doesn't say, "For God so loved the good people that he gave..." So many Christians seem to forget how God really, truly LOVES and adores all these other people around us on this planet. God made this man on purpose and loves him dearly.

 

Until you can see him that way, you might want to stay away, or you'll just end up looking like a self-righteous Christian. (Which won't be your intent--but it will come thru.) Showing someone God's love must come from the heart. If it's not from the heart, then be careful, because you won't be representing God, and you could do more damage than good.

 

To me, this would be a perfect opportunity to act out your faith--if you are genuine about it. It will help you draw closer to God, maybe it will help him to draw closer to God and it will provide a valuable lesson to your children on how to love the unlovely.

 

I also see nothing wrong with asking him to watch the language around the kids.

 

thank you. this is alot to think about and i appreciate your input greatly!

i want to clarify that i love this relative. i have known him all my life and i believe he truly loves his family and my dh and has a high regard for dh as a le officer. obviously, i don't condone what he has done with his life but i still love him and want the best for him. i think i've always felt this issue of "if i spend time with him, he is going to think i believe him - that i take his side. that it never has been his fault. that he shouldn't have been sent to prison. that his ex-lovers are all horrible women and mothers. etc..." and i've always felt like i don't want him to think i condone what he's done. i don't know how to reconcile "loving the unlovely" and the feeling that i'm accepting criminal behavior as something that is ok.

i have a lot of growing to do!

[ereks mom]

don't mean to be mean' date=' but he brings nothing positive to my children. he is my first cousin and i have always been very close to his mother, so that's the problem with not including him. i feel like that's impossible really.

but he's the kind of guy that just isn't nice, but he doesn't know it. like, [b']he's sarcastic and says mean things but thinks they're funny. he's a typical bully that never grew up.[/b] he thinks it's appropriate to make a fist at little boys encouraging them, in a playful way, to fight. hard to explain - you kinda have to be there. he actually told my 3 year old son (who is now 7) - you can't come in this house with that shirt on when ds was wearing a red sox shirt (a gift from grandma who just returned from a trip to boston - we aren't fans but the shirt just said "boston" in the red sox style lettering) - he's a yankees fan. 3 year olds don't get that kind of banter, but he's clueless.

 

i just feel like "Jesus would welcome spending t-giving dinner with him, and so should i" ?!?!?!?!?!? but that's so hard!

 

No advice here, but I have a nephew who is very much like your cousin. Only my nephew (30yo) knows he isn't nice--goes out of his way to be mean--and then wonders why people are hesitant to invite him. Of course, he can be charming to certain people when he wants to be, in order to get something from them. He's told his current girlfriend a sob story about how his family always excludes him, and she just can't understand why.

[jackson'smama]

Most people who swear that much, really aren't aware of it.

this is him. he sees no difference between "gd-____" and the word "the". seriously. and he probably uses them equally.

[Lovedtodeath]

Jesus was pretty much universally gentle and kind to "sinners." The people that he was always yelling at were the Jewish leaders of the day who were supposed to know better.

:iagree:Thank you for pointing that out!!! :grouphug: