Poll: If you fast for religious reasons, which is worse is your opinion?

[unsinkable]

Let me pitch you a scenario:

 

A group of Catholic people adults and children went to a salad bar on a Friday in Lent. All abstain from eating meat on Fridays in Lent.

 

Several (half the table) took a pre-dressed & tossed Caesar salad and began eating it before realizing it had bacon bits already mixed in. Once the first person realized it and announced it to the table, everyone stopped eating it and set the full plates aside.

 

So my question is which is worse?

 

Eating the salad with bacon bits.

 

OR

 

Wasting the salad.

 

ETA: I pick wasting the salad but I was glad I didn't have any at the time. I don't know if I would have been able to keep eating it, especially in front of the other parents' kids if they were still at that "black and white" stage of their thinking, KWIM?

Edited October 6, 2011 by unsinkable

[justamouse]

I'm sure God understood about not realizing the bacon bits were there. ;)

 

No, I wouldn't be wasting the salad. The heart is what matters most.

[Tigger]

That seems akin to asking a Jewish person, in the same scenario, why they won't eat it, it's just some bacon, right?

[Forget-Me-Not]

Huh. Guess I'm in the minority :) I'm LDS and have been known to stop eating things that very obviously contained coffee or alcohol once I tasted them.

[Crimson Wife]

I would try to pick off the bacon bits as best I could and then abstain from meat on Saturday to make up for what I accidentally consumed.

[unsinkable]

That seems akin to asking a Jewish person, in the same scenario, why they won't eat it, it's just some bacon, right?

 

I think it might be different because fasting from meat during Lent is a choice, not a requirement.

 

And, I didn't ask or tell anyone anything. I was asking this board their opinion b/c I can see both sides of the situation.

Edited October 6, 2011 by unsinkable

[vonfirmath]

The absolute proper thing to do in that instance was to stop eating! and I'm not Catholic.

 

But if there is a commitment I've made and I accidentally break it, I don't go oh well already broken, might as well continue. I stop immediately when I realize. Wasting food really doesn't come into the picture next to honoring your word.

[Carol in Cal.]

Eating the salad is worse because it's knowingly going against a spiritual commitment to God. Before you realized the bacon bits were there, it was just an accident, no harm, no foul, no sin. Once you realize it, you're going against your conscience, and that is always dangerous.

[Ellie]

I'm not concerned about "wasting" salad. I'm more concerned about the actual behavior. They could have eaten the salad with the bacon bits. It would have been more charitable to have eaten the salad than to put on a group boycott.

[unsinkable]

Huh. Guess I'm in the minority :) I'm LDS and have been known to stop eating things that very obviously contained coffee or alcohol once I tasted them.

 

I would think it'd be more akin to making a big breakfast on Fast Sunday and then realizing what day it was. Assuming you couldn't save the food, which is worse?

[HappyCrazyMama]

I just had to chose Wilbur because that's my town.:D I'm not sure which I would choose but wasting food typically is not a concern of mine and I can't decide if my conscience would be violated or not.

 

About wasting food, as a rule I try not to be wasteful (in any area of life) but I won't eat food just so it is not "wasted".

 

ETA- I would probably go with the picking them off answer.:)

[HSMom2One]

I'm sure God understood about not realizing the bacon bits were there. ;)

 

No, I wouldn't be wasting the salad. The heart is what matters most.

 

:iagree:

 

I might pick out the bacon bits. But resuming the fast afterward would be in good keeping with the intent of the fast. To waste the salad seems rather legalistic to me. It is truly the heart that matters.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

Edited October 6, 2011 by HSMom2One

[vonfirmath]

I would think it'd be more akin to making a big breakfast on Fast Sunday and then realizing what day it was. Assuming you couldn't save the food, which is worse?

 

going against your conscience. Wasting the food is just a consequence of the forgetfullness

[Tigger]

I think it might be different because fasting from meat during Lent is a choice, not a requirement.

 

And, I didn't ask or tell anyone anything. I was asking this board their opinion b/c I can see both sides of the situation.

 

 

The basics of the precept are simple, throughout Lent Catholics are obliged to fast — to limit themselves to one full meal or two lighter meals — and abstain — refrain from eating meat — on certain days. Only Ash Wednesday and Good Friday are days of fast and abstinence, and in the United States only the Fridays during Lent are days of abstinence.

 

 

 

The obligation for fasting and abstinence doesn’t fall on young children or people with health concerns, though they are encouraged to do acts of penance instead. Barring any health concerns that would present extenuating circumstances, the obligation of abstinence (not eating meat on Friday during Lent) begins at the age of 14, and the law of fasting is binding on everyone ages 18 to 59.

 

 

 

In my reply, I noted it was akin to asking a Jewish person the same thing - I didn't say you said anything to the Catholics, I said it was akin, very different.

 

 

Their decision did not affect you, so I'm not even sure why it bothered you. It is their obligation they feel they are holding to, not yours - did they tell you not to eat your salad? No? Then why worry about them not eating theirs after they realized it had meat in it?

 

 

And it is akin to a Jewish person consuming pork, or a Muslim consuming pork; it's akin to (as a PP noted they stop about) wondering why an LDS would stop drinking a cup of caffinated coffee; or a Hindu stopping mid-bite when they realize beef is in a dish.....it's things none will do due to their sense of religious obligation and religious law.

[asta]

Abstaining from meat on Fridays isn't about the bacon. Or any other meat. To think that, and to waste a full plate of perfectly good food completely misses the point.

 

The point of abstention is self-sacrifice. Telling mainstream Catholics "no meat on Fridays" is a relatively easy way to teach the lesson. Many Catholics eat no meat on Fridays all year long - not just during Lent. Many Catholics eat no meat for all of Lent.

 

The idea and history of abstention within Catholicism is an interesting one. It lies behind such things as vows of silence -- when you aren't focused on one thing, you can be more focused on God -- which is the point of skipping the meat, by the way...

 

I'm rambling...

 

 

a

[Murphy101]

What do you mean by worse?

Morally? Eating it.

Harder to do? Not eating it. lol

 

I still remember dh calling me from work in mild anguish over not realizing it was a Lenten Friday until he had taken his first bite of bacon cheese burger from his favorite pub. Said the only thing worse was smelling and looking at it until the waiter took the plate away. poor fella. lol

[wapiti]

I'd finish the salad, but then it seems to happen often that I'm about halfway through a meal when I remember :001_huh:. Or, Dh calls when he knows I'm eating lunch.

 

What I question is the person announcing it to everyone, though I might have done so accidentally if I were thinking out loud.

 

I don't think I've ever fasted in my life. Well, maybe once (and in my old age, LOL, I realize it wouldn't be so great for my blood sugar). My mom is a former nun, but she's never been much of a rule-follower ;), so...like mother like daughter? (eta, now that I think about it, I think she fasts and then nearly faints or something)

 

 

I don't see it as a question of morality or religious belief. The sacrifice is simply about bringing greater glory to God.

Edited October 6, 2011 by wapiti

[2cents]

I picked 'eating the salad'. I'm not religious but my opinion is that if someone claims to be adhering to a belief then they don't or shouldn't pick and choose the situations that they practice it under.

 

That said, it would have been nice if they had a pet or farmstock that could have eaten the salads. :)

[Murphy101]

We would have said something.

Once a person is aware, what they do about it is up to them.

It has happened to us before in various ways.

We would not have finished it.

[Mrs Mungo]

Almost all bacon bits in salad-bar type restaurants are made out of soy and are artificially flavored. Look on a bottle of Bac-os, the bottle says they contain no meat or animal fat.

 

So, I voted that wasting the salad is worse.

[Murphy101]

Almost all bacon bits in salad-bar type restaurants are made out of soy and are artificially flavored. Look on a bottle of Bac-os, the bottle says they contain no meat or animal fat.

 

So, I voted that wasting the salad is worse.

 

True. But if that were the case we wouldn't finish bc we think those are nasty. :)

[Tigger]

True. But if that were the case we wouldn't finish bc we think those are nasty. :)

 

:iagree:

 

:lol:

[Parrothead]

Almost all bacon bits in salad-bar type restaurants are made out of soy and are artificially flavored. Look on a bottle of Bac-os, the bottle says they contain no meat or animal fat.

 

So, I voted that wasting the salad is worse.

I thought that too. Was it real bacon or just bits of flavored stuff.

 

I wouldn't waste the salad. but I wouldn't be at a restaurant on a Friday during Lent.

[UmMusa]

Definitely stop eating the salad.

[ereks mom]

Abstaining from meat on Fridays isn't about the bacon. Or any other meat. To think that, and to waste a full plate of perfectly good food completely misses the point.

 

The point of abstention is self-sacrifice.

 

:iagree:

[WishboneDawn]

Almost all bacon bits in salad-bar type restaurants are made out of soy and are artificially flavored. Look on a bottle of Bac-os, the bottle says they contain no meat or animal fat.

 

So, I voted that wasting the salad is worse.

 

That's what I was thinking. I would have asked if the bacon bits were real or not and if not, I would have eaten the salad.

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

:iagree:

 

I might pick out the bacon bits. But resuming the fast afterward would be in good keeping with the intent of the fast. To waste the salad seems rather legalistic to me. It is truly the heart that matters.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

 

:iagree:

[unsinkable]

The basics of the precept are simple, throughout Lent Catholics are obliged to fast — to limit themselves to one full meal or two lighter meals — and abstain — refrain from eating meat — on certain days. Only Ash Wednesday and Good Friday are days of fast and abstinence, and in the United States only the Fridays during Lent are days of abstinence.

 

 

 

The obligation for fasting and abstinence doesn’t fall on young children or people with health concerns, though they are encouraged to do acts of penance instead. Barring any health concerns that would present extenuating circumstances, the obligation of abstinence (not eating meat on Friday during Lent) begins at the age of 14, and the law of fasting is binding on everyone ages 18 to 59.

 

 

 

In my reply, I noted it was akin to asking a Jewish person the same thing - I didn't say you said anything to the Catholics, I said it was akin, very different.

 

 

Their decision did not affect you, so I'm not even sure why it bothered you. It is their obligation they feel they are holding to, not yours - did they tell you not to eat your salad? No? Then why worry about them not eating theirs after they realized it had meat in it?

 

Doesn't bother me at all. I'm not sure where you got that in my post?

 

And it is akin to a Jewish person consuming pork, or a Muslim consuming pork; it's akin to (as a PP noted they stop about) wondering why an LDS would stop drinking a cup of caffinated coffee; or a Hindu stopping mid-bite when they realize beef is in a dish.....it's things none will do due to their sense of religious obligation and religious law.

 

While I would never question any of those people in those situations, it is not the same IMO. Those situations are different b/c they are NEVER consume those foods. And they do it for different reasons than for the reasons Catholics are fasting from meat.

 

Tried to reply to the different ideas in red.

[felicity]

Huh. Guess I'm in the minority :) I'm LDS and have been known to stop eating things that very obviously contained coffee or alcohol once I tasted them.

 

I'm LDS too and I do the same thing. It may be a bit wasteful, but in the specific instance it's more important to follow what you believe to be right than eat the salad. Even if there is no real bacon in the bacon.

[unsinkable]

going against your conscience. Wasting the food is just a consequence of the forgetfullness

 

Are you LDS? Not that it matters, just curious.

[unsinkable]

Almost all bacon bits in salad-bar type restaurants are made out of soy and are artificially flavored. Look on a bottle of Bac-os, the bottle says they contain no meat or animal fat.

 

So, I voted that wasting the salad is worse.

 

I thought of that afterward (after the meal).

True. But if that were the case we wouldn't finish bc we think those are nasty. :)

 

:lol:

 

I thought that too. Was it real bacon or just bits of flavored stuff.

 

I wouldn't waste the salad. but I wouldn't be at a restaurant on a Friday during Lent.

 

Is that part of your Lenten sacrifice?

[unsinkable]

The basics of the precept are simple, throughout Lent Catholics are obliged to fast — to limit themselves to one full meal or two lighter meals — and abstain — refrain from eating meat — on certain days. Only Ash Wednesday and Good Friday are days of fast and abstinence, and in the United States only the Fridays during Lent are days of abstinence.

 

 

 

The obligation for fasting and abstinence doesn’t fall on young children or people with health concerns, though they are encouraged to do acts of penance instead. Barring any health concerns that would present extenuating circumstances, the obligation of abstinence (not eating meat on Friday during Lent) begins at the age of 14, and the law of fasting is binding on everyone ages 18 to 59.

 

 

 

 

.

 

You are right. It is an obligation for Catholics to abstain from eating meat on Fridays. I used the wrong words.

[Mergath]

Is there some reason they couldn't have asked for boxes and taken the salads home for the next day?

 

I wouldn't waste food for a reason like that. Not when there are so many people in the world dying from starvation.

[Murphy101]

I propose whether one should finish or not might depend on which is a greater sacrifice. To some, it's a real sacrifice to see food go to waste - in which case they should not eat it because the goal is sacrifice. To another, it might be a difficult sacrifice to not give in to their cravings - in which case they wouldn't eat it either.

 

We usually avoid the issue by not eating out on Fridays.

 

*shrug*

[twoforjoy]

In a restaurant, I think either would be fine (eating or wasting).

 

If they had been guests at someone's home, though, and that person had served the salad, I do think that eating it would have been the right thing to do, rather than refusing or wasting. I know that people have different opinions on that, but my view on it is that being a gracious guest supercedes ethical or religious choices or obligations. If we're talking about a situation where the person either didn't state their dietary needs/preferences ahead of time, or they did and the host didn't realize the dressing had meat, I do think that the right thing to do is to just go ahead and eat it without making a fuss. (Food allergies/sensitivities are another thing, obviously.) Now, if you said that you were abstaining from meat and the person decided to serve steaks, that would be a different situation, but I can't really see that happening too often.

 

That's just my stance on it. I wouldn't criticize or question another person about why they refused to eat something their host served them. But, personally I think that being a grateful, gracious guest is a more pressing moral obligation than keeping to dietary guidelines, even religious ones.

 

In a restaurant, though, the gracious guest thing isn't an issue, so I think it really just depends on what the individual felt more comfortable with.

[unsinkable]

Is there some reason they couldn't have asked for boxes and taken the salads home for the next day?

 

I wouldn't waste food for a reason like that. Not when there are so many people in the world dying from starvation.

 

It was a salad bar so they won't give you a take-out box.

[Murphy101]

Is there some reason they couldn't have asked for boxes and taken the salads home for the next day?

 

I wouldn't waste food for a reason like that. Not when there are so many people in the world dying from starvation.

 

Sure take it home is an good option. Many buffet places don't permit carry out though.

 

That said, people starving elsewhere has nothing to with the salad.

Neither eating it or throwing it away will make a bit of difference to those starving elsewhere.

[justamouse]

Eating the salad is worse because it's knowingly going against a spiritual commitment to God. Before you realized the bacon bits were there, it was just an accident, no harm, no foul, no sin. Once you realize it, you're going against your conscience, and that is always dangerous.

 

Yes, well we shouldn't help a man get his donkey out of the mud on a Sunday, either, because that's the Sabbath and we can't work.

 

And I'm another one who wouldn't be in a resteraunt on A Friday during lent, anyway, so there is that.

Edited October 6, 2011 by justamouse

[Murphy101]

No, my being a gracious guest has never superseded my religion.

I would not make a fuss.

I would not say a word about it.

I would push my food about some and try to be has engaged in conversation as possible. Give my compliments to the chef and enjoy the people around me.

 

ETA

Tho again I doubt we would attend a dinner party on Friday during lent. It's just simpler to avoid such issues.

[Mergath]

Sure take it home is an good option. Many buffet places don't permit carry out though.

 

That said, people starving elsewhere has nothing to with the salad.

Neither eating it or throwing it away will make a bit of difference to those starving elsewhere.

 

Ah.

 

I just don't think that needlessly throwing out a plateful of food when there are so many people starving to death would help me feel closer to God. Quite the opposite, in fact.

[Chris in VA]

Other.

They should have had the salad wrapped up and taken home to eat on a non-fast day. They were right to stop eating once they knew, tho.

I'm all for the "man was created for the sabbath" thing--

The same dilemma can be found in scripture, with the cow falling into the pit on the sabbath--which is worse, breaking the sabbath or "wasting" the cow? ;)

[Amy in NH]

I think wasting the food is worse, but I accidentally voted for eating it. Oops and oh, well.

[Murphy101]

Ah.

 

I just don't think that needlessly throwing out a plateful of food when there are so many people starving to death would help me feel closer to God. Quite the opposite, in fact.

 

If having a full belly knowing others are starving does make you feel closer to God - then good for you. (no snark intended)

 

But let's not pretend it is some kind of holier sacrificial action to do so because it simply isn't.

 

At least if the food is wasted I gain a small measure of sympathy for those who have no choice about missing a meal.

[simka2]

It is my understanding that fasting during Lent is directly connected with alms giving. (This may just be EO) the point being that fasting from meat leaves more room in the budget to give to the poor. Coming from that perspective I would say eating the salad would be the better option.

[Mergath]

If having a full belly knowing others are starving does make you feel closer to God - then good for you. (no snark intended)

 

But let's not pretend it is some kind of holier sacrificial action to do so because it simply isn't.

 

At least if the food is wasted I gain a small measure of sympathy for those who have no choice about missing a meal.

 

I can have sympathy without flaunting that we have so much food we can waste as much as we want.

[Little Nyssa]

I would just pick out some of the bacon bits and eat the rest of the salad.

[ktgrok]

Hmm...I beleive the best option would be to ask to box up the salad to take it home for tomorrow, and order something different. But otherwise I'd eat the salad. Pork is not unholy or unclean in the catholic tradition, so it is very different than a Jew or Muslim eating pork. The point is very different...the point is to eat lighter, as a mini fast type thing. Personally, I think going out to eat kind of defeats the whole purpose. Technically you could go out for a lobster dinner on a Friday in Lent, but I think it is much better to stay home and have peanut butter and jelly.

[Murphy101]

I can have sympathy without flaunting that we have so much food we can waste as much as we want.

 

Who are you flaunting, especially at a restaurant?

Certainly not anyone starving.:001_huh:

 

If we follow this logic, of wasting food is flaunting how much you have to people who aren't even around to know it or be affected by it...

 

Then wouldn't eating at a restaurant at all be a form of flaunting? After all, if you can not only afford food, but afford to be served whatever you order while you sit waiting it being prepared, set in front of you, and cleaned up afterwards - isn't that flaunting to people begging in streets all day for their bread?

 

Again, I am truly not being snarky.

 

I simply see no logic to your argument.

 

The point of lenten sacrifice is to sacrifice.

 

It is a luxury to be able to do so.

That is not flaunting.

It is simple logistics and math.

 

People in Haiti who have to eat mud pies are not required to fast or abstain because it is no sacrifice to do what they have already been doing - going hungry.

 

It is no sacrifice for me to eat a salad to avoid some misguided notion that starving people some place else are going to think I'm flaunting my meal at them. Which really devalues Lenten sacrifice to just wanting to have a good image? With people you don't even know?:confused:

 

I honestly wouldn't care if another person ate the salad or not.

 

I do take mild exception to any claim that eating it is somehow more holy.

 

I tend to strongly dislike waste, so seeing my food go to waste would be an additional sacrifice for me.

 

Again, I'm truly not being snarky to you.

Feel free to eat your salad.

I just don't understand your reasoning for it.:)

[abbeyej]

I'm thinking the "bacon" was likely a vegetarian substitute anyway (Bac-Os, for instance, has no animal products).

[Tigger]

Hmm...I beleive the best option would be to ask to box up the salad to take it home for tomorrow, and order something different. But otherwise I'd eat the salad. Pork is not unholy or unclean in the catholic tradition, so it is very different than a Jew or Muslim eating pork. The point is very different...the point is to eat lighter, as a mini fast type thing. Personally, I think going out to eat kind of defeats the whole purpose. Technically you could go out for a lobster dinner on a Friday in Lent, but I think it is much better to stay home and have peanut butter and jelly.

 

Actually it isn't much different - while Jews and Muslims hold pigs to be unclean, and abtain from eating their flesh, Catholics abstain from meat on Friday's to abstain from eating flesh of an animal because Jesus gave up his flesh by dying on the cross. Before Jesus, sins were “paid for†by animal sacrifice (see Leviticus 1:4, Romans 6:23). The death was required to atone for sin was the death of a sacrificial animal. When Jesus died on the cross to pay the price of humanity’s sin he personally became the last sin sacrifice. After Christ’s death, no animal sacrifice was necessary to pay for sin, because his death paid the price of sin in full for all future generations. Today, Catholics honor his sacrifice by not sacrificing (eating) animal flesh on Fridays during Lent.