Like a blog post, but I don't blog. Musings from a former homeschooler who teaches

[Jean in Newcastle]

I just wanted to say that I was the "This is an interesting read, but disheartening." It has been an invaluable discussion and I really have appreciated it. I know there is a lot of truth in what has been shared. All of that can be true and present, but it can still be disheartening for me personally. I don't think that is reason for concern or alarm.

 

I personally am struggling with the "Why I am doing this?" question and in a lot of ways this thread affirmed much of that for me. Joanne and a number of others have shared their seasoned experiences. Many of those experiences share a common thread. Is seeing many of the fears and worries come to fruition in these shared experiences ever easy for someone?

 

In my first post on this thread I was merely making a personal observation. I find it rather amusing that people are taking issue with those of who found these words disheartening or in any way discouraging. We are all looking at things through the lens of our own autobiography, is it so surprising that to some those words would land that way? Does that mean I can't see truth in them? Or that I am unable or unwilling to hear them objectively and apply them to my personal situation? Not for me. But I can still be disheartened, because I do want the best for my children and I am constantly wondering if I am the person who can provide the best.

 

Sorry if this a rambly mess, it is why I do more reading than replying.

 

May I encourage you to continue to explore the "Why am I doing this" question? I think it is a good one for everyone using whatever kind of educational method (or mix of methods) to ask themselves. I wish that more people who put their kids into public school were to ask themselves that too. I have no problem with people who choose to put their kids into public school, who have done it thoughtfully and with eyes wide open. I also have no problem with people who choose to homeschool thoughtfully and with eyes wide open. I say this because there are segments of homeschoolers who are following a cultural norm in their own subculture just as much as people in the wider culture can be just blindly following the "normal" cultural norms on schooling.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Decided to work out some of these inner conflicts privately lest I sound even crazier than I feel...

Edited September 20, 2011 by Tibbie Dunbar
a person who is of two minds should understand that the one has canceled out the other and remain quiet

[Aelwydd]

I just wanted to say that I was the "This is an interesting read, but disheartening." It has been an invaluable discussion and I really have appreciated it. I know there is a lot of truth in what has been shared. All of that can be true and present, but it can still be disheartening for me personally. I don't think that is reason for concern or alarm.

 

I personally am struggling with the "Why I am doing this?" question and in a lot of ways this thread affirmed much of that for me. Joanne and a number of others have shared their seasoned experiences. Many of those experiences share a common thread. Is seeing many of the fears and worries come to fruition in these shared experiences ever easy for someone?

 

 

 

Apple, I can't speak for others, but what I found off-putting about some of the "This is disheartening" posts here was a unsubtle tone of chiding. That is, some of them came across to me as saying "Well, you're not doing very much to help the faithful few are you! With an attitude like that..."

 

That sort of response missed the point. Information simply is. You can weigh it, analyze it, use it as tool in your journey; or you can balk at it, and censor the person who shares it. Only one of these approaches actually employs the use of critical thinking.

 

IMO, your post was simply sharing how you felt, your reaction to her information. I didn't sense an attack. That is different from "This is how I feel, and you shouldn't keep posting things that are less than edifying."

[Ginevra]

Mid-Atlantic. We had these discussions four years ago when our twins were looking at schools; the twins initially were viewed as homeschoolers although the reality was they got diplomas from a cyber charter school (we homeschooled, then put them in the cyber because the cyber paid for 2 years of cc classes). We had discussions with a variety of schools. All the schools we looked at were private.

 

:svengo: Mid-Atlantic? I can't believe my eyes! Here? Where the homeschooling laws are more crotchety than they are in many other states? Boo and Hiss!

 

Homeschooling high school is doable, but it is serious business. So please don't think I am putting it down. I'm not. :001_smile:

 

:iagree: This is the part I think many younger homeschoolers are clueless about and the homeschooling community on the whole has not schooled (haha!) them in realizing it.

[MIch elle]

Do you think this is absolutely necessary in high school? I think it would be fantastic if the opportunities arose, but I mostly think of university as being the setting for what you describe.

 

In high school English, I read a wide variety of literature and had wonderful discussions with a fantastic teacher/s and fellow students. It didn't happen in college because I was a science major and didn't take many English/literature classes.

[Tmhearn]

Sorry if this has been said already, as this is a very long thread...

 

First of all, I think it's really odd to say that homeschoolers are not well prepared for classrooms. Really, isn't that the point of homeschooling (to not be in a classroom)? Why would we be preparing our children for classrooms? If they end up in a classroom eventually, they can learn the new skills accordingly. I get that the op is saying that ending up in a classroom is an inevitable eventuality for most homeschoolers. However, I do not see evidence to support that theory (aside from the anecdotal stories), and I do not think the theory warrants "preparation" for classroom life.

 

Additionally, I think it is virtually impossible to lump homeschoolers into a group and label them with a set of characteristics. The analogy I always use is that comparing people who homeschool is like comparing people who are religious. (Yes, I think homeschoolers encompass that broad of a category. ) Ten families who homeschool can do so in 10 different ways. Even knowing the style or curriculum that someone uses doesn't tell you about their family values or parenting style. And inho, homeschooling is 10% about the curriculum you use and 90% about parenting issues.

[texasmama]

I like the fact that I can come to this forum and say "I'm having trouble with xyz" and I will get 20 different possible solutions (with some repeats). I like that I can then pick through them and find the one that will fit my particular child in my particular situation. Sometimes there is an immediate solution that has been suggested. Sometimes trying something that someone else has suggested will trigger a variant that was not suggested specifically but is a spin-off of that - in my mind anyway. Sometimes I have to come back and say, "Nope, none of those worked. Now what?" (And sometimes the answer to that is "Try harder and more consistently.") What I don't like are the answers who have the "this is the only sensible answer. If you don't use this, you are an idiot" vibe.

 

Yes. :001_smile: This forum is rich with ideas...and people. The collective experience and wisdom benefits us all.

 

I think that part of what people are objecting to in Joanne's OP is the combination of the fact that she is no longer homeschooling and the fact that she has a cautionary tale to tell. The onus is not on Joanne to find the solution. The onus is on those who are homeschooling high school to find it. As Jean has stated, the solution for one is not the solution for all.

[justamouse]

Sorry you were cranky! If I had a way to send you a virtual chocolate doughnut, I would.

 

In answer to your statement re: my bias, yes, you're correct. However, I don't think that bias is without sufficient evidence. You are right that the trend spans the entire population, and I acknowledged that it is evident on both sides of the political spectrum, and across many other demographics.

 

The reason why I point out the "faith-based" trend, is that it seems to be the most well-organized, and intentional barrier to an educated populace out there. It isn't the only one, but it certainly seems to have the most dollars and political backing behind it.

 

But, I see it that way, because my bias is, I don't believe you can have a truly enlightened, highly educated populace if you seek to undermine the basis of science, itself. If you want to destroy a democracy, you attack education. Because, if you attack education, you eventually get a citizenry that is ruled by superstition and ignorance, because it has no tools with which to weigh or criticize information or evidence. Such a populace is much easier to manipulate and to control.

 

That is why I interpret Joanne's experiences with many formerly home schooled students as an acute indication of a failure of education at large. My opinion is, these students stand out, because their education has suffered from the unmitigated effect of teachers, who are poorly taught themselves, for the entirety of their schooling to that point. But, public schooled students are not in a much better position, and some are worse off, given how uniformly awful some schools really are.

 

My conclusion: I home school because I seek to instill a more solid basis in a scientific, and evidence-based, worldview than he would currently receive in his local public school. I am confident he is getting a superior education because of that. However, that is not the case with every home schooled student, and I think that the end results will be as variable as the attitudes and abilities of the parents who are teaching.

 

With this (especially the bolded) I totally agree.

 

I just wanted to say that I was the "This is an interesting read, but disheartening." It has been an invaluable discussion and I really have appreciated it. I know there is a lot of truth in what has been shared. All of that can be true and present, but it can still be disheartening for me personally. I don't think that is reason for concern or alarm.

 

I personally am struggling with the "Why I am doing this?" question and in a lot of ways this thread affirmed much of that for me. Joanne and a number of others have shared their seasoned experiences. Many of those experiences share a common thread. Is seeing many of the fears and worries come to fruition in these shared experiences ever easy for someone?

 

In my first post on this thread I was merely making a personal observation. I find it rather amusing that people are taking issue with those of who found these words disheartening or in any way discouraging. We are all looking at things through the lens of our own autobiography, is it so surprising that to some those words would land that way? Does that mean I can't see truth in them? Or that I am unable or unwilling to hear them objectively and apply them to my personal situation? Not for me. But I can still be disheartened, because I do want the best for my children and I am constantly wondering if I am the person who can provide the best.

 

Sorry if this a rambly mess, it is why I do more reading than replying.

 

 

Look at your siggie. You have smaller children, and they are at the years of hard work in laying the foundation. It's a lot of work (it's ALWAYS a lot of work but that time is especially wearing because of all the doing in the work). Teaching to read, learning maths-you're not launching, you're building the rocket.

 

Every age has it's never ending train-babies are diapers, feedings and sleeplessness.

 

Toddlers are ME, i do! and you swear you are raising the next Napoleon.

 

Well, every age in homeschooling is the same. And especially in those years, you need to really remember why you are doing it, because they will wear you the heck out.

 

So, what I'm trying to say is that yes, you need to think about why, but you also need to see where you are in the whole scene, you're in a particularly hard part. Remember that while you're grappling with things. :001_smile:

[Ria]

 

First of all, I think it's really odd to say that homeschoolers are not well prepared for classrooms. Really, isn't that the point of homeschooling (to not be in a classroom)? Why would we be preparing our children for classrooms? If they end up in a classroom eventually, they can learn the new skills accordingly. I get that the op is saying that ending up in a classroom is an inevitable eventuality for most homeschoolers. However, I do not see evidence to support that theory (aside from the anecdotal stories), and I do not think the theory warrants "preparation" for classroom life.

 

 

If your goal is to prepare your child for college or any other type of further education program in the future, you will want them to have test-taking skills, note-taking skills, working-in-groups skills, study skills, deadline skills, etc. Even taking the SATs requires familiarity with test-taking.

 

I can't tell you how many times I witnessed kids ages 10-12 cry and fuss during state-mandated standardized testing her in PA. It was pathetic. These kids had NO CLUE how to follow directions (written or oral) and continually went up to the proctor for help, only to be sent back to their seats. Then the tears would start.

 

Seriously. Kids do need certain classroom skills.

[texasmama]

Also, this is a single case study so therefore not terribly relevant, but I had a student in my undergraduate course last Spring who was homeschooled the entire way through school, including high school. In a class of 25 students, she was one of the best and brightest. She struggled a bit as a conservative Christian in a large, public university, but she had made friends and was doing very well in the coursework. It was heartening.

[*Lulu*]

Thank you all for the insights shared in this thread. (Although I will admit to crying last night over the thought of dooming my child to fail.) It is good for us to examine ourselves as individual units and as a larger community. Introspection is rarely a fluffy undertaking, but it is healthy and, arguably, essential to sucessful parenting and homeschooling.

 

I come from a long line of educators and our decision to homeschool totally rocked the boat. During those first few months after we announced our decision I fielded comment after comment and question after question about our crazy plan. After getting past the initial irritation, I started to really research the objections they had raised. In the end I was confident in my choice not despite their objections, but because of the journey those objections set me on.

 

Thank you for scaring the carp out of me, and giving me the early in the year freak out that gets me fired up and ready to go!

Edited September 20, 2011 by BLA5
Darn ipad

[SeekingHim77]

If your goal is to prepare your child for college or any other type of further education program in the future, you will want them to have test-taking skills, note-taking skills, working-in-groups skills, study skills, deadline skills, etc. Even taking the SATs requires familiarity with test-taking

 

Seriously. Kids do need certain classroom skills.

 

Sure they do. However, that's something they can learn fairly quickly and easily. I'm all the time seeing homeschoolers go on about the things our kids need to be prepared for as if we should start preparing them for every life situation at birth! It's really not that hard.

 

My goal is not to prepare my children for college but for life. The classroom experience is only a very, very small part of it.

 

When I decide that my son needs to learn these skills in a more indepth way, I'll teach them. Simple as that. :001_smile:

[Joanne]

If your goal is to prepare your child for college or any other type of further education program in the future, you will want them to have test-taking skills, note-taking skills, working-in-groups skills, study skills, deadline skills, etc. Even taking the SATs requires familiarity with test-taking.

 

I can't tell you how many times I witnessed kids ages 10-12 cry and fuss during state-mandated standardized testing her in PA. It was pathetic. These kids had NO CLUE how to follow directions (written or oral) and continually went up to the proctor for help, only to be sent back to their seats. Then the tears would start.

 

Seriously. Kids do need certain classroom skills.

 

I neglected test taking skills because I was fairly anti-standardized test. One of the problems with that is, at some point, many homeschoolers need to standardized test SOMETHING, if only SAT.

 

My experience here (teaching at a university style school) is that homeschoolers do struggle with deadlines. (and some parents allow it to continue)

 

My youngest's Iowa and Stanford test scores do not reflect his reality because he did not know how to test. His not reading/understanding directions was somewhat age appropriate, but it was exacerbated by not having had training and exposure.

 

My kids learned to take notes when my homeschool grew to accept additional students and I started having some traditional lectures, but this would not have been introduced otherwise.

[helena]

I have not been doing this as long as Colleen but I agree with this (especially the bolded!). And you know what else? The longer I do this, the better I'm getting at it. You can't let every criticism (major or minor) allow your resolve to be diminished. Instead, steel yourself! Let the criticism be constructive, even when you feel the tone is not. Be proactive by adapting and creating fixes for those failings that truly are an issue for you (and we all have some, of course). Just roll your eyes at the rest. ;)

 

Always be honest with yourself though. Sometimes we feel defensive for good reason (been there, personally). If you really are doing a great job, don't let threads like these make you feel like a failure. If, instead, you know in your heart of hearts that you're not doing a great job, do let threads like these be a wake up call. Put on a pot of coffee and make a plan. Then get to it! :)

 

:iagree:

[mommymilkies]

Ok, so what would you recommend for homeschoolers to prepare for standardized testing, deadline skills, etc.? I do admit I have trouble with deadlines. And yes, I was public schooled. Deadline skills were never taught to me, they were just given and I had to figure out how to make it work. It took me a semester into college to figure that one out and I still have trouble.

 

I do have my kids do test prep books. And we do some test prep like Rafe Esquith does (see Teach Like Your Hair's On Fire). What else, in a perfect world, would you suggest so my little heathens can be like all of the good test-taking pros in public school?

[chepyl]

I know, right? It's sad that I skip those threads now, but I just don't have the energy.

 

 

 

 

Well, the first thing they need to do is actually read the book. :glare:

 

 

I have, twice. Threads like this scare me. I know that folllowing the WTM will provide a better education than ps, but these threads make me question my abilities. This can be a good and a bad thing. It makes me work harder, but it also males me think about ps.

[Critterfixer]

I have not read every reply here, but I read enough to think that maybe the story of a former home-educated child now turned home-educator could be helpful here.

My mother never graduated college, not because she was not smart or willing to go. Instead she had a family. She made a decision to home-school all four of us when our financial situation could not support a private education that in so many respects was not worth the money paid for it. The public schools in our area were terrible at the time. (I know--I was a pill in eighth grade and spent ninth grade in one!)

She made plenty of mistakes. Most of the math I was supposed to be learning was not math she was comfortable with, and Saxon isn't exactly self-teaching! But despite what might be seen as a failure for my eighth grade year, I sailed through ninth grade in PS, without encountering much material that I didn't already know. At the end of that year I took the placement test for our local community college, passed without a hiccup and was a college student at fifteen. I went on to complete my doctorate of veterinary medicine without having a high-school diploma.

My first brother is a nurse.

My second brother is a Spanish teacher. My mother does not speak Spanish, and my father was inspired to learn by my baby brother. English is his first language, which makes him a little unusual as a translator.

My baby sister is an accountant.

[momma2three]

Sure they do. However, that's something they can learn fairly quickly and easily. I'm all the time seeing homeschoolers go on about the things our kids need to be prepared for as if we should start preparing them for every life situation at birth! It's really not that hard.

 

My goal is not to prepare my children for college but for life. The classroom experience is only a very, very small part of it.

 

When I decide that my son needs to learn these skills in a more indepth way, I'll teach them. Simple as that. :001_smile:

 

Hmm, I'm not actually sure that I agree that all these are things you can just pick up in a snap of the fingers. I think there can be a fairly steep learning curve, and by the time it actually matters, you really want to be proficient.

 

I don't know what the answer is, but I totally plan on making DD fill in lots of bubbles over the course of her schooling!

[SeekingHim77]

Hmm, I'm not actually sure that I agree that all these are things you can just pick up in a snap of the fingers. I think there can be a fairly steep learning curve, and by the time it actually matters, you really want to be proficient.

 

I don't know what the answer is, but I totally plan on making DD fill in lots of bubbles over the course of her schooling!

 

 

I didn't say anything about learning it in a snap-just that it's not something we have to gear their whole education towards. I just don't think it's that big of a deal.

 

Then again, all the homeschoolers I know who have enrolled in public or private school have transitioned easily. It was never a big problem. They adjusted very quickly and are doing very well in their studies.

[2cents]

With all due respect to the op, I can't do coops. ;)

 

My reasons have all to do with the fact I don't want to spend my money or my time on fluffy or disorganized poor classes that are taught by moms that may be well intentioned and knowledgeable but unable to manage crowd control. Unfortunately the coops I've tried haven't met with my expectations nor those of my children.

 

We don't go to coops to experience other teachers or people. We get that from our life experiences and the classes we take from the museum. I've been to many coops and I've been hsing for over a decade and I used to be very pro homeschooling everything but time has taught me to look at all other options and not be afraid to stray from the crowd.

[ElizaG]

You know, when I started homeschooling there was no pre-packaged curricula. (...) We put stuff together to come up with curricula ourselves. We used books (can you imagine?) and did our own lesson plans.

 

Homeschooling has never been easier. There is so much to choose from, the planning is done, the scripting is even done in some programs. How on earth can people screw it up? I am baffled. :(

But there were far fewer people choosing to homeschool at that time, right? (I'm just going by what I've heard and read about, so please correct me if I'm wrong.) So the people who did things the way you describe might have been self-selected for certain traits. I recently came across a homeschooling advice pamphlet from almost 30 years ago, and had to wonder how many parents -- whether today, or back then -- would have the fortitude for all the things they suggest. Ordering school stationery to get review copies of textbooks... putting ads in the newspaper to find out-of-print historical fiction (no reprints or Internet booksellers)... not to mention dealing with all the legal hassles. Nobody could think that it would be a breeze.

 

Contrast to today, when we have sites like this:

 

Easy Classical

Easy Homeschooling Starting Points

It's Easy to Teach Foreign Languages at Home

Teach Writing Quickly & Easily

 

This isn't meant as a comment on the value of these particular curricula or methods; I don't know much about them. But the language they use makes it sound as if all the hard work has been done for the parent. :001_huh:

 

And inho, homeschooling is 10% about the curriculum you use and 90% about parenting issues.

I agree with this, and I think it's part of the bigger picture that people are talking about. At least in the circles I'm familiar with, many mothers seem to look for ways to make their children's childhoods all sunshine and roses, and will choose their materials and methods with that in mind. If the child balks at doing the work, the parent does backflips trying to make it "fun." This is sort of natural for mothers, I think. But I can't see how it prepares the child for reality -- whether in a classroom, or anywhere else.

[lakerks]

What do the terms "fake school," "fake learning," and "fake homeschooling" mean?

[Paisley Hedgehog]

What an incredibly crazy thread. I read it through all the way to the end.

 

With all due respect, OP, it seems to me that you are as closed-minded now as you were in the past, just with a different perspective.

[Rosie_0801]

I do find myself typing and then deleting, "Is private school an option?" more this fall than I ever have before.

 

So, in a totally immature and me-centered fashion, I guess I would like to know how to light the fire under the chairs of the new generation while still encouraging me and telling me what a good job I'm doing?

 

Is that too much to ask? LOL

 

Tell them they need to become high school board groupies?

 

It both opens my awareness to the possibilities and reassures me that it's a LONG time away. I can muse on the content because I'm not overwhelmed into paralysis by time pressures.

 

Rosie

[ElizaG]

Tell them they need to become high school board groupies?

 

It both opens my awareness to the possibilities and reassures me that it's a LONG time away. I can muse on the content because I'm not overwhelmed into paralysis by time pressures.

:iagree: I think everyone should read the high school board. There's a lot of educational wisdom there.

[Joanne]

What an incredibly crazy thread. I read it through all the way to the end.

 

With all due respect, OP, it seems to me that you are as closed-minded now as you were in the past, just with a different perspective.

 

:confused: Just at *opinionated*, yes. But closed minded? To what, exactly? Where is the evidence of a closed mind in this thread?

[Aelwydd]

:confused: Just at *opinionated*, yes. But closed minded? To what, exactly? Where is the evidence of a closed mind in this thread?

 

The only evidence I see of it is where this person is projecting her closed mindedness onto you.

[Rosie_0801]

:confused: Just at *opinionated*, yes. But closed minded? To what, exactly? Where is the evidence of a closed mind in this thread?

 

Some people find decisions a symptom of close mindedness instead of a symptom of conclusion of a thought process. (My dad comes to mind. Ugh.) I'm not sure how you could be close minded on the topic unless your previous thoughts on the topic had been erased from your brain.

 

I think Shari is going post-modern on you.

 

Rosie

[Quiver0f10]

This has certainly NOT been my experience at all.

 

I have 3 kids in their 20's who were exclusively homeschooled. No co-op, no outside classes other than swim team or art classes, none.

 

All 3 went to college or are still in college.

 

My 2 girls were 4.0 students, had tons of friends, were active in school activities etc. DS was never very academic...but he has no problem with classes at.all.

 

My girlfirend has 3 kids who were exclusively homeschooled up until the oldest went to college...her 2nd child went into high school in 11th grade...and her dd went into high school at 9th grade. None of these kids had any trouble adjusting to school.

 

My SIL homeschooled her dd through high school, and her ds up until 9th grade. Again...no co-ops, no outside classes except for dance or swim team. Again, these kids had absolutely no problem adjusting to school setting when the time came.

 

I don't know where you are getting this information, unless it is just from your own experience. My experience has been quite the opposite. I think it is ridiculous to make a blanket statement that homeschooled kids will be stunted if they are not exposed to outside classes or teachers by a certain age. I think it is nonsense....sorry.

 

By the way, I know lots of public and private schooled kids who went away to college and flunked out because they could not acclimate to their new surroundings. Does that mean that ALL PS or private schooled kids will have trouble in college??

 

I am just:confused: by these statements and would hate for a young homeschooling mom to be swayed away from schooling her kids because of someone else's bad experience.

 

Faithe

 

:iagree: my college kids are doing well too.

[Joanne]

:iagree: my college kids are doing well too.

 

My Jr. High-er and my High Schoolers are doing well.

 

That doesn't change my observations, or those that I've seen and heard from other educators and homeschoolers.

[Mommyfaithe]

:confused: Just at *opinionated*, yes. But closed minded? To what, exactly? Where is the evidence of a closed mind in this thread?

 

I don't think you are being closed minded...I just don't think this post was helpful to a homeschooling board. I also don't think your conclusions are true. I disagree that children are at a disadvantage from primarily homeschooling through high school...quite the opposite.

 

A parent who is determined to provide the best educational opportunites for their child and works hard side by side with their child is likely to have a successful outcome.

 

Again, my adult children really had no problem adjusting to classroom situations or college level work any more than their public school and private school counter-parts. There are so many variables that occur that parents need to really determine what is the best fit for each child...every year....set clear goals, come up with a plan to accomplish those goals ....lean forward and work hard. Will it all turn out perfectly and as you expected?? Probably not. Does anything?

 

When I look back over my years of homeschooling...and there have been many....my only regret is not following my gut and getting nervous or frightened into folowing someone else's idea on what would be best for my kids or my family.

 

Faithe

[Joanne]

I don't think you are being closed minded...I just don't think this post was helpful to a homeschooling board. I also don't think your conclusions are true. I disagree that children are at a disadvantage from primarily homeschooling through high school...quite the opposite.

 

 

 

I disagree that it's not helpful, which leads me to the second part of my response. I don't think that children primarily homeschooled through high school are at a disadvantage, either. I may define "primarily homeschooled" differenently from you.

[EKS]

I really think it is a generational thing.

 

I don't think it's generational. I think it is that homeschooling has gone mainstream.

[Mommyfaithe]

My Jr. High-er and my High Schoolers are doing well.

 

That doesn't change my observations, or those that I've seen and heard from other educators and homeschoolers.

 

Think it was a fluke?

[EKS]

I just don't think this post was helpful to a homeschooling board.

 

I completely disagree. I think these are just the sort of issues we should be discussing.

[Joanne]

Think it was a fluke?

 

I am not sure what you are asking.

[justamouse]

I disagree that it's not helpful, which leads me to the second part of my response. I don't think that children primarily homeschooled through high school are at a disadvantage, either. I may define "primarily homeschooled" differenently from you.

 

 

Ok now you have to define it because I need to see where the white space is.

[Aelwydd]

I don't think you are being closed minded...I just don't think this post was helpful to a homeschooling board. I also don't think your conclusions are true. I disagree that children are at a disadvantage from primarily homeschooling through high school...quite the opposite.

 

First of all, I respect your right to your own opinion, but I don't think it is respectful of you to speak for the entire board. I disagree. I happen to believe that the presentation of information, whether or not it appears to corroborate my personal beliefs, is never a waste. I don't ignore troubling data, just to pacify my bias.

 

Second of all, Joanne didn't draw conclusions. In fact, it was her second list that she posted, where she basically stated the jury is still out. She has shared her observations, in her particular position as a home schooling parent, and then as a public school teacher in Texas. I don't remember reading anywhere where she stated that all upper-level home schoolers are doomed to fail, or that they cannot be successfully taught. What she has said is that she's noticed a disturbing trend among the home schoolers to lag behind in certain areas. That trend may be attributable to any number of factors, which is what we have been discussing.

 

It could be lack of state standards. It could be regional attitudes towards objectivism in education. It could be demographics. It could be many things. But, so far, I haven't seen Joanne draw any hard or fast conclusions. Simply stating one's observations, and how it affects his or her outlook, is not the same as making an unequivocal statement about a given issue. Again, I haven't seen Joanne make any statements about her concluding that hs'ing in high school is a fruitless venture. I have seen others here jump to the conclusion that that is what she is saying.

 

Finally, home schooling students do suffer from certain disadvantages, like their public school peers do. They are just different disadvantages. Public school children don't get the one-on-one approach, or the personalized approach, etc., etc. However, home schoolers don't get the advantage of shedding a bad teacher at the end of the year. They generally don't get the same exposure to diversity that public students do. They don't get the same classroom dynamic of learning alongside many peers, or learning how to accommodate more than just their parents' take on how things should be done.

 

The point is, there are advantages and disadvantages to home schooling, like any other choice. Now, others will vociferously object to the very idea that there could be negatives to home schooling, but I don't find that attitude to be either realistic, nor particularly helpful. What I find helpful, is honest and constructive criticism each step of the way.

[Quiver0f10]

.

 

 

Not only do you think this, but colleges are jumping onto the bandwagon, too. The private college my 19-yr old attends does not make it easy for homeschooled students to apply. The school is very upfront about the disasters they've seen with homeschooled students. The admissions counselor told me that the problem became so severe that most homeschooled students failed out within a year or two, and the problems were both academic and social (dorms, etc).

 

For that reason they require a lot more from the homeschoolers who want to apply...almost "proof" that these kids can function socially and in an outside academic setting.

 

That's disturbing. The college isn't being negative. The college is reacting to the quality of homeschooled students they've enrolled. And did I mention this is a private college?

 

Having just gone through application process with various colleges, I can say this has not been out experience at all.

Edited September 21, 2011 by Quiver0f10

[Alte Veste Academy]

I don't think it's generational. I think it is that homeschooling has gone mainstream.

 

:iagree:

 

As the stereotype of academically superior homeschoolers became widely recognized, it seems that many more people have started homeschooling. I know firsthand that many begin without understanding that there is nothing magical about homeschooling in and of itself that makes kids geniuses. As others have said, it is a job and yes, it is demanding work, especially at the upper levels.

 

I do think discussions like this are good for this board. Anything that invites introspection can be beneficial. However, just as you catch more flies with honey, you invite more positive discussion with humility.

[momma2three]

As a brand new homeschooler just starting out on an educational journey (and I don't even know what we'll bedoing next year, let alone 9 years down the line) I have been closely following this thread and have found it very interesting. I'm glad that it is being discussed. It doesn't make me scared of homeschooling or anything like that, but it is interesting fodder for thought.

 

Now that homeschooling has gone mainstream, as someone above has said, there are more people who can share with us noobies what worked for them and what didn't. I doubt anyone is going to take just one person's word as the One Truth about how to homeschool, but every piece of information is another piece of the puzzle. I've enjoyed reading what everyone has to say, and I think that pretty much everyone on this thread has given me something to think about.

[Nscribe]

Not only would I look ridiculous even attempting an arabesque, it might result in an injury to myself, another or perhaps something of value. Thus, my daughter learns to dance from someone who does.

 

I don’t play guitar, my singing makes the dog howl and I have no business producing or directing a play. Thus, those skills I employ others to teach my child.

 

If the point of this thread is that it is possible to be in over your head in some arenas and thus need be savvy and seek out those who can, then I would agree.

 

Shucks, I farm the creativity, experience and work of others who have and are homeschooling highschool frequently on the boards, in real life and otherwise. Thank goodness the option is available in this day and age to tap these resources.

 

One distinct advantage of homeschooling is that I can constantly assess, innovate and adapt as necessary. I can choose the most valuable lesson in a particular matter may be sticking with it despite the challenges. I choose that sometimes the most valuable lesson to model is the wisest choice is to cut your losses and move on to another approach. I can choose.

 

If I choose wisely, my child and I both reap rewards. If I err, we either learn to learn from our mistakes or we pay the consequences (or sometimes both) and that is teachable moment.

 

I am grateful for the freedom to choose.

[Mom0012]

We had some great discussions in my high school English/Lit and history classes. We did not have AP only honors. The school refused to model theor classes to fit someone else's curricula. I am glad they did it this way. I really learned. I was not prepping for a test. I feel there was a lot I missed, but I did have a few bad teachers and the highly rigorous classes did not start until 11th grade. Bit we had some great classes with enthusiastic teachers.

 

 

 

 

My two kids do three classes each at co-op and it cost me $30 including insurance and facility fees. I teach a Shakespeare class, mainly for reading aloud and discussing what it OS happening, it coat $25. That coverage books. Co-op can be inexpensive.

 

Cheryl, if you've found great classes that are worthwhile and inexpensive at the same time, that is wonderful. I just haven't found it to be the case in my area.

 

I looked into signing both of my kids up for Latin this year at the only coop in our area that I know has an excellent reputation for teaching and it would have cost me $500 for each child. Now, the class itself was $200 or $300, but once all the registration fees, etc. were piled on, it came to $500. I would really have to sign up for a full day of classes to get my money's worth due to the fees and I don't want to turn my entire homeschool over to a coop. On top of that, I would have had to drive 40 minutes just to get there. For the coop that has an "okay" reputation, and which is located 5 minutes from my house, the classes are $400 each and these aren't even for high school classes.

 

I'm sure there are great opportunities out there and I suspect we'll be using some of them as we get into high school, but it's just not going to be something I'm going to do unless I really feel I can't teach a subject. Cost alone will insure that.

 

Lisa

[Mom0012]

So now we've gone from needing to love :001_wub: Mommy-taught co-ops to needing to go to public school or else the kids will have a helluva time going to college because homeschoolers are such notorious losers.

 

:001_huh:

 

This is nuts.

 

Of course there are homeschoolers who are total losers. Every demographic has its total losers. But I'm not going to send my son to Stupid School down the street where only 19% of boys even graduate (without honors) just because of these horror stories. I'm pretty sure that the skills and knowledge he uses to navigate a Civil Air Patrol Search and Rescue Mission might get him through his first day of college, but I could be wrong. He could go in there like a bumbling doofus and come home crying from the total stress of having to find his classes all by his little self.

 

I'll be sure to update.

 

People, read TWTM and follow it. If you aren't a loser, your homeschooled kid won't be a loser. Take a few days off of these "support" forums if all this negativity is making you fear your homeschooled child will spend his 21st birthday sipping Ripple in an alley instead of making something of himself.

 

I know I'll be taking a few days off. I think my time would be better spent listening to my son's Greek and Latin recitations than listening to these litanies of woe from people who claim to believe in homeschooling.

 

I :001_wub: you!

 

Lisa

[Rosie_0801]

I doubt anyone is going to take just one person's word as the One Truth about how to homeschool.

 

You might be surprised.

 

Rosie

[Aggie]

Not only do you think this, but colleges are jumping onto the bandwagon, too. The private college my 19-yr old attends does not make it easy for homeschooled students to apply. The school is very upfront about the disasters they've seen with homeschooled students. The admissions counselor told me that the problem became so severe that most homeschooled students failed out within a year or two, and the problems were both academic and social (dorms, etc).

 

For that reason they require a lot more from the homeschoolers who want to apply...almost "proof" that these kids can function socially and in an outside academic setting.

 

That's disturbing. The college isn't being negative. The college is reacting to the quality of homeschooled students they've enrolled. And did I mention this is a private college?

 

First, I have to wonder how many homeschool students applied, were accepted, and failed out. And how many public school kids fail out.

 

Sometimes, students drop out of high school at the legal age. In some states, that is 16. Then in a few years, they decide to go to college or into the military.

 

Instead of listing 'drop-out' on their applications, they put 'homeschool.'

 

In Texas, some districts *strongly encourage* high school students to 'homeschool' so test scores aren't brought down by students who aren't serious about education or capable of doing well on a test.:glare:

 

It's not always true homeschoolers who give homeschooling a bad name.

[WIS0320]

I don't think it is fair for seasoned homeschoolers to assume that the newbies are less prepared and capable just because they are new. Sure, I know that experience helps and I am here on this forum asking seasoned homeschoolers for advice often. But that doesn't mean I'm an ineffective teacher, it just means that I want to get better and I am humbly asking for help. Ria, I was side by side with you in that last thread about this same thing. I do think it is sad that some parents cannot see how their homeschooling is failing. I would hope that I can honestly assess each and every year how things are truly going around here so we can make the best choices possible for the kids longterm.

 

Homeschooling is sort of like breastfeeding was initially with my first baby. I am taking it in baby steps. I set a 6 week breastfeeding goal with my first and reassessed when I got there. I kept setting small goals and kept moving forward and then somehow there we were at 25 months and I had to figure out how to wean. ;)

Edited September 21, 2011 by drexel
spelling!

[Alte Veste Academy]

 

Instead of listing 'drop-out' on their applications, they put 'homeschool.'

 

In Texas, some districts *strongly encourage* high school students to 'homeschool' so test scores aren't brought down by students who aren't serious about education or capable of doing well on a test.:glare:

 

It's not always true homeschoolers who give homeschooling a bad name.

 

:iagree:Oh, yes!

 

I ran a teen court in a DFW suburb from 1995-1997. It was a fantastic experience but I can't tell you how many kids were "homeschooled." (wink wink, nudge, nudge) I can tell you I sat in on school meetings where the discussions about "problem" kids would make you cry. Let's just say they were not welcome at school and were all but forced to leave. At that point, being in Texas, the easiest choice was to say you homeschool. The schools were quite happy with that outcome. :glare:

[Barb_]

What do the terms "fake school," "fake learning," and "fake homeschooling" mean?

 

I recognize part of this phrasing, so I'll answer. In my experience, a co-op is fake school because typically one of the parties doesn't take it seriously. You have a family paying for real academics and an ill prepared instructor teaching dumbed-down material, or a highly capable instructor struggling with a class of kids who don't do the work, disrupt the flow, and then demand an apology when the instructor loses patience. Or a family paying for academics and finding that neither the instructor nor the class takes it seriously. In a traditional school setting, everyone knows and is committed to his or her role, for good or ill. Fake school. The only co-ops that work are the ones where the administration, parents, and students are all on the same page, and that is notoriously hard to achieve in the homeschooling community.

 

Co-ops are fake homeschooling for obvious reasons. Parents who join a co-op and then expect as much control as homeschooling are both delusional and disrespectful to the people trying to run the classes. In so many cases co-ops just take the worst of school dynamics and the worst of homeschooling social dynamics and squish them together. Which is why I thought they were a particularly bad example of an academic outlet.

[8circles]

So now we've gone from needing to love :001_wub: Mommy-taught co-ops to needing to go to public school or else the kids will have a helluva time going to college because homeschoolers are such notorious losers.

 

:001_huh:

 

This is nuts.

 

Of course there are homeschoolers who are total losers. Every demographic has its total losers. But I'm not going to send my son to Stupid School down the street where only 19% of boys even graduate (without honors) just because of these horror stories. I'm pretty sure that the skills and knowledge he uses to navigate a Civil Air Patrol Search and Rescue Mission might get him through his first day of college, but I could be wrong. He could go in there like a bumbling doofus and come home crying from the total stress of having to find his classes all by his little self.

 

I'll be sure to update.

 

People, read TWTM and follow it. If you aren't a loser, your homeschooled kid won't be a loser. Take a few days off of these "support" forums if all this negativity is making you fear your homeschooled child will spend his 21st birthday sipping Ripple in an alley instead of making something of himself.

 

I know I'll be taking a few days off. I think my time would be better spent listening to my son's Greek and Latin recitations than listening to these litanies of woe from people who claim to believe in homeschooling.

 

I totally get Joanne's OP & what her point was/is. But TD - this post is brilliant. I'm a fan. :D