Like a blog post, but I don't blog. Musings from a former homeschooler who teaches

[Zoo Keeper]

Just wanted to say that I am glad this discussion has been going on, even with all the positives and negatives.

 

I know that evaluation (of myself as a teacher, of my children as students, of my children as just kids :), of what we have learned, and where we are going) is valuable, even if it hurts.

 

I do appreciate other folks sharing their experience, even if it has no application to me right now, it could be useful later.

 

This forum has so helpful in pushing me to think, evaluate, and grow as an educator. I hope we all continue to do so.

[Aelwydd]

I recall a few others but these offer some of the "young mom" statements.

 

Ok, I went back and read the statements in context. They were talking about younger generations having generally not received as good an education as older ones, thanks to a decline overall in education (mostly in public schools).

 

I didn't see anywhere where Ria or TD (or I) stated that younger generation parents aren't qualified to home school. What they were saying is that, thanks to the ever-declining nature of education in public (and even private) schools, where the vast majority of hs'ing parents received an education, they may not have received the same conceptual grounding from which older generations may have benefited.

 

However, the decline is hardly unilateral. Public school teachers are also a product of the same system. I do not consider many teachers today to be on par with the quality of my teachers when I was in ps. (I should share my ds' former teacher's emails here--you would be aghast at the grammar.) Because, it's not just the public schools that have slipped--colleges and universities have "dumbed down" as well. So, a teacher having a college degree, while essential and important, does not necessarily indicate to me that they are a highly educated, informed individual.

 

I also believe that many hs'ing parents end up filling in any gaps in their education, as a result of their decision to educate their children. Their research into education, necessarily leads to reading new sources and encountering new ideas.

 

To reiterate, Ria and TD were not saying that they shouldn't or couldn't teach. The "light a fire" comment meant to stir up the ranks and to basically raise the standards. They were not saying that merely being a new or young teacher equated being unqualified to home school. What they are saying, is that they recognize the dearth between the education of one generation and the next. That is a systemic problem though--not simply the problem of young home schooling moms. It affects the young ps teacher, and the young parent helping his or her ps student with home work.

[mirth]

This being the case, why would one then be in great favor of co-ops? Same inadequate people, but now they're teaching your kids.

 

A perfect and nicely minced response.

[Nan in Mass]

What I am trying to say is that homeschooling has advantages. School has advantages. When you choose to do one, you give up some of the advantages of the other. For my family, school has more disadvantages than advantages and homeschooling has some fabulous advantages, so we choose to homeschool, despite the disadvantages of that choice. In an effort to help people mitigate or compensate for those disadvantages, I occasionally discuss them.

 

And now please go read the second half of the summing up: http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3165692#poststop

Nan

Edited September 21, 2011 by Nan in Mass

[Mommyfaithe]

Decided to work out some of these inner conflicts privately lest I sound even crazier than I feel...

 

:iagree: me too....:auto:

[beaners]

I just updated my thoughts on this, beaners:

 

 

 

I do see a difference in the education level of the younger generation. I've been seeing it IRL for some time, and I am seeing it here. Studies and test scores bear this out, by the way. The nation has gotten poorer at language and math. That doesn't mean the younger parents are doomed or destined to fail, or that none of them went to good schools! It does mean that Ria and I did have someplace solid to stand in that conversation. Whether it should have been a public discussion could be a matter of debate. Probably not, because it didn't edify or encourage newbies who are doing a fine job in spite of the times.

 

The best and brightest new homeschool educators are going to keep finding their way here. I should be encouraging them instead of lamenting the challenges.

 

 

It's really all a matter of what you are seeing from your own vantage point. From where I am, I am seeing more parents who are choosing to home educate for academic reasons instead of purely religious reasons. I am seeing more parents who have some absolutely rocking plans laid out. I see parents following through on those plans. I do see some posts that make me cringe, but I see less of them on this particular forum than in other places.

 

I could list all of the frightening things I've seen posted by veteran homeschoolers, some with graduated children. I could point out the eqully frightening things I see from public school educators. It wouldn't add to the discussion, so I won't. I just don't think this is specifically a young mother problem when the poor results seem to be growing from a few entrenched branches of home educating. It seems to be a problem of philosophical origin instead of parental ability and education, again from my vantage point.

 

I do strongly believe that there are some parents who shouldn't home educate. I don't think more regulation would help because I see examples of educational neglect in this high regulation state. I think parents who have devoted time and energy and passion to the education of their children are unlikely to become the examples cited in this thread.

 

And I'm adding a :001_smile: here because I think everyone just wants to do the best they can for the children in their care.

[melissel]

It's really all a matter of what you are seeing from your own vantage point. From where I am, I am seeing more parents who are choosing to home educate for academic reasons instead of purely religious reasons. I am seeing more parents who have some absolutely rocking plans laid out. I see parents following through on those plans. I do see some posts that make me cringe, but I see less of them on this particular forum than in other places.

 

I could list all of the frightening things I've seen posted by veteran homeschoolers, some with graduated children. I could point out the eqully frightening things I see from public school educators. It wouldn't add to the discussion, so I won't. I just don't think this is specifically a young mother problem when the poor results seem to be growing from a few entrenched branches of home educating. It seems to be a problem of philosophical origin instead of parental ability and education, again from my vantage point.

 

I do strongly believe that there are some parents who shouldn't home educate. I don't think more regulation would help because I see examples of educational neglect in this high regulation state. I think parents who have devoted time and energy and passion to the education of their children are unlikely to become the examples cited in this thread.

 

And I'm adding a :001_smile: here because I think everyone just wants to do the best they can for the children in their care.

 

Well said. In my real life, I'm surrounded by unschoolers. I'm not an unschooler and never will be, and I don't generally agree with it as an educational philosophy (though I've certainly not been around the block enough times to cite any actual results from any particular method yet). But I can say for sure that every parent in my circle parents and educates their children from a thoughtful and considered place and does so with what they perceive to be the best interests of their children at heart.

Edited September 21, 2011 by melissel

[Pink Fairy]

What I am trying to say is that homeschooling has advantages. School has advantages. When you choose to do one, you give up some of the advantages of the other. For my family, school has more disadvantages than advantages and homeschooling has some fabulous advantages, so we choose to homeschool, despite the disadvantages of that choice. In an effort to help people mitigate or compensate for those disadvantages, I occasionally discuss them.

Nan

 

You've summarized my feelings exactly. In the end, each of us has to decide which education has the most to offer our children, and how to make up for any disadvantages we encounter while on our chosen path. This thread has raised my awareness of some of the pitfalls to watch out for.

 

A lot of times it's more about the abrasive style of the messenger than it is about the message. (shrug) I think that's what's been happening here.

[9763653]

Ok, I went back and read the statements in context. They were talking about younger generations having generally not received as good an education as older ones, thanks to a decline overall in education (mostly in public schools).

 

I didn't see anywhere where Ria or TD (or I) stated that younger generation parents aren't qualified to home school. What they were saying is that, thanks to the ever-declining nature of education in public (and even private) schools, where the vast majority of hs'ing parents received an education, they may not have received the same conceptual grounding from which older generations may have benefited.

 

However, the decline is hardly unilateral. Public school teachers are also a product of the same system. I do not consider many teachers today to be on par with the quality of my teachers when I was in ps. (I should share my ds' former teacher's emails here--you would be aghast at the grammar.) Because, it's not just the public schools that have slipped--colleges and universities have "dumbed down" as well. So, a teacher having a college degree, while essential and important, does not necessarily indicate to me that they are a highly educated, informed individual.

 

I also believe that many hs'ing parents end up filling in any gaps in their education, as a result of their decision to educate their children. Their research into education, necessarily leads to reading new sources and encountering new ideas.

 

To reiterate, Ria and TD were not saying that they shouldn't or couldn't teach. The "light a fire" comment meant to stir up the ranks and to basically raise the standards. They were not saying that merely being a new or young teacher equated being unqualified to home school. What they are saying, is that they recognize the dearth between the education of one generation and the next. That is a systemic problem though--not simply the problem of young home schooling moms. It affects the young ps teacher, and the young parent helping his or her ps student with home work.

 

I realize most of the statements in this thread are specifically US-focused. Would anyone define "younger generation"?

[Jean in Newcastle]

Melissel, anecdotal evidence IS evidence. No, it is not considered on par with peer-reviewed studies, prospective, retrospective, etc. It is not given the same weight, nor should it be. However, when a college of professionals or academics goes to set evidence-based standards of practice for that particular group, anecdotal and case studies are considered a form of relevant evidence.

 

 

 

The problem with anecdotal evidence is that there are so many uncontrolled variables. The subject matter (students) is also a problem even in a controlled study because there is only so much that they can control. When you are "studying" a subject like homeschooling it gets even harder because homeschooling is less homogenous than public schools - unless you were to do a study on everyone who uses ABeka DVDs or Sonlight exactly as it is out of the box.

 

I've stopped telling people I meet that we homeschool unless I absolutely have to. Before I tell them, my children are just "normal" kids with some to learn with regards to the world, social interactions and academics. As soon as I tell people I homeschool, that spelling mistake in the thank you card becomes an indictment on homeschooling. That socially awkward moment on the playground becomes another indictment on homeschooling.

 

There is a reason that there are books out there like "The Crumpled Paper was Due Last Week". And there is a reason why there are study skills courses for college students. These books and courses were not created solely for homeschoolers.

 

Yes, we should be aware of our children's study skills, social skills and organizational skills just as any parent should be. Just because we homeschool doesn't mean that we shouldn't be aware of those things. And just because someone has their child in public school doesn't mean that they shouldn't be aware of those things either.

[Jenny in Florida]

So I guess I'm having a problem with the paradigm presented in the OP. I think I can be 'against' co-ops but still be 'for' independent, non-sissy kids who are able to learn from and spend time with a wide diversity of people.

 

I was thinking that, too.

 

We don't do co-ops, because I've never found one that fits our needs. If I could find one offering genuinely high-quality academic classes taught more effectively (or enjoyably) than I can do at home, without pushing religious content I find objectionable, where the students and teachers show up on time and honor their committments, that would allow me the freedom to place my kids in classes that would be the best fit for them academically and socially and that charged prices I could afford . . .

 

My kids do online classes through FLVS. They participate in a variety of extra-curricular activites, including classes not limited to a homeschool audience. They do a LOT of theatre, where they interact with mixed age cohorts and much follow instructions from directors and choreographers and stage managers.

 

In my area, co-ops wouldn't offer any help in either raising academic standards or broadening social horizons. But we make a serious effort to do both.

[Aelwydd]

It's really all a matter of what you are seeing from your own vantage point. From where I am, I am seeing more parents who are choosing to home educate for academic reasons instead of purely religious reasons. I am seeing more parents who have some absolutely rocking plans laid out. I see parents following through on those plans. I do see some posts that make me cringe, but I see less of them on this particular forum than in other places.

 

I could list all of the frightening things I've seen posted by veteran homeschoolers, some with graduated children. I could point out the eqully frightening things I see from public school educators. It wouldn't add to the discussion, so I won't. I just don't think this is specifically a young mother problem when the poor results seem to be growing from a few entrenched branches of home educating. It seems to be a problem of philosophical origin instead of parental ability and education, again from my vantage point.

 

I do strongly believe that there are some parents who shouldn't home educate. I don't think more regulation would help because I see examples of educational neglect in this high regulation state. I think parents who have devoted time and energy and passion to the education of their children are unlikely to become the examples cited in this thread.

 

And I'm adding a :001_smile: here because I think everyone just wants to do the best they can for the children in their care.

 

I really like this post.

[mirth]

Totally on the bold. I'm not necessarily pro-co-op. ;) I'm anti-anti-co-op.

 

I believe that the best homeschooling includes finding the right outside help, which may or may not be co-op.

 

If this is what the op's message boils down to, I am not sure why it is so pivotal, or depressing.

 

My take is: sure I agree with above. But I happen to be allergic to stupid and know it doesn't take a PhD to recognize hapless and monumental wastes of time (and fuel) when you see them.

[Mommyfaithe]

It sounds like I'm switching sides in the argument. :glare:

 

I think I am warming up to the idea of conceding that newbies need to hear all this stuff but still holding on to the notion that those of us old enough to be currently hs'ing teens probably slid in under the wire and are probably doing a pretty good job.

 

Would anybody else buy that?

 

I buy it. :D Actually, I also buy hybrid homeschooling. My older kids ...being homeschooled at a time when it was not so socially, nor academically accepted, had to be schooled primarily by ME. We "outsourced" art and physical ed, because that was the sum of what was available to us. We did not even, nor did anyone else, have internet when we began, so online course work was not an option.

 

My younger kids have more outside opportunities. Homeschooling is mainstream. Our "neighborhood" has grown to include more adults willing and able to mentor our kids...including their older siblings.

 

As we get into older grades, finding opportunities is much easier...choosing which ones to take and which ones to pass up on is much harder.

 

I just have such a hard time believing it is a one size fits all...gotta do it this way or you'll fail kinda thing. Heck, my own homeschool has gone through any changes through the years...and so has the local public schools. For example, when my older kids were that age the school taught whole language...then a pure phonics and now they are using a hybrid (which I like best.) For maths, they went from a discovery based program (Addison Wesley/ Miquon) to Saxon to a Singapore type math.

 

I went through many gowing and changing times here as well, adjusting our school to our life at the time and the children that were being taught. Did I do it perfectly?? NOPE. There are lots of head-banging moments.

 

Sorry if my intrusion into this discussion upset anyone. I didn't mean to be disrespectful, and I will not take any of the comments toward me that way either. Sometimes it takes disagreement to have an intelligent conversation. I raely get my bloomers in a twist...and yes, my experience is greater than some in this arena...I have been at this a looong time. I have adult children who were homeschooled through high school and have graduated from college. My perspective will be different. It will be coming from a different angle. I think I can still learn from those newbies....especially in the excitement, fun and energy department. And they can learn from me...someone who has BTDT...and went the full distance (and is still braising a trail for her young ones which may look quite different than her older ones.)

 

Peace

Faithe

[Aelwydd]

I realize most of the statements in this thread are specifically US-focused. Would anyone define "younger generation"?

 

 

I'm thinking for the purposes of the discussion, "younger generation" may include those in the <26 years old. However, someone else may differ on that.

[chepyl]

They may never acclimatize. I have spoken to a few adult homeschoolers who never did. I'm not sure homeschooling had anything at all to do with that, except to provide them with an alternative way of learning. One called himself an autodidact and managed to put up with college long enough to get the piece of paper that allowed him to go where he wanted to go. He was rampantly against classroom education. He, however, had been educated in a school until he got old enough to realize that it was possible to refuse to go (14). He isn't the first like that I've met and from a homeschooling parent's perspective, they aren't very useful examples because most of them went to elementary school, middle school, and college. They learned how to manage in the classroom in elementary school, and they learned how to teach themselves in high school. Some found that college was a form of education that was just different enough from public school that they enjoyed it. Some were scornful of it but had done it anyway. Some had tried briefly and then become entrepreneurs or volunteer workers or something else that didn't require a college degree.

 

I've spoken to a number of teachers who dealt with homeschoolers. They all thought that homeschooling was absolutely wonderful up until high school. They all had serious doubts about the viability of homeschooling high school.

 

I've spoken to a few people who were homeschooled until college and then went to an alternative style college which was very like homeschooling. They were doing fine. They had been homeschooled in a very loose way, one which allowed them to develop a passion, one that had grown to the point where they needed a college to continue to develop that passion. They were lopsized but very happy people.

 

I have not spoken to many who went from homeschooling in a more traditional academic way to a traditional college. I have spoken to a few college students who knew somebody who had. They had a very dim opinion of their friends' abilities to interact with their peers, especially the opposite sex. They said they were about middle school level when it came to peer interactions.

 

I think it is extremely hard to get useful answers to this question other than the general one of making sure you are covering things like writing, math, foreign languages, and science well (all places that I"ve heard mothers complain are hard), and making sure your student has plenty of opportunity to interact on his own with the world and do hard things on his own.

 

Nan

 

ETA - And now please go read the rest of this post here: http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3164615&posted=1#post3164615

 

My husband and his brother were homeschooled. After their mom passed away they had a rough time with school for a while. Both ended up taking the GED and then graduating from college. DH did well. He had as good a GPA as I did for the most part and I went to a private college prep high school. He had some trouble with hand exhaustion in the first few weeks because he was not used to taking notes. He also needed some help with math at first. His brother struggled through math, took college algebra a couple of times (or started it a couple of times) but he is just not a mathy person. He avoids math at all cost!

 

My niece has not had the most consistent homeschool experience. She has been behind in math, but was recently accepted into a special program for high school sophmores-seniors. It is math and science intensive to help students be prepared for a college pre-med type program. She is doing very well. She adjusted quickly and has made the highest grades on some of her tests.

 

It is not being able to sit in class at 6, it is discipline and motivation. Teach your child self-discipline by slowly letting them do more and more on their own - in school and life; help them find a career path that motivates them to do well and work hard. With those two things a student will do well as they move into college work.

 

I saw people from my college prep high school fail classes in college and flounder because they had no direction. They were prepared for college level work, but had NO CLUE what they wanted to do with their lives because they had no practical life experience. They had played high school football, but never had a job. They were not going to be pro-football players, but a few did play in college. They all picked a random major, hated their classes and then partied college away. For some, after playing around and finally having to get a job, they found a passion and finished school.

 

I also saw public school grads struggle because they could not take notes. They did not know how to write papers. THE WORST were the 2 public school teachers who were in my master's program who did NOT know how to write a research paper. Both had education degrees and taught theatre. One middle school, one high school.

 

It is not just homeschoolers who struggle. There are people who will struggle no matter what type of education they receive. That is why it is great to have so many options for education. You can find what fits your child and your family. For some, homeschooling in elementary and early middle school is a much better option, but high school credit needs to be done in a school. Nothing wrong with that choice. Others want to homeschool and add co-ops or cc classes. Again, if that is how your child will gain the best education, that is what you should do.

 

The only thing that I can say I do not think should EVER happen is a child sitting at home with mom all day everyday doing school and everything else with mom and never seeing or interacting with other kids or people. Even church for an hour a week is generally not enough. They need to be in the world a bit learning how to interact with people of all ages; not just mom and dad. They need some sort of outside activity: dance, gymnastics, choir, drama, art lessons, 4-h, scouts, sports teams, special interest clubs, debate team, etc.

[Mommyfaithe]

It's really all a matter of what you are seeing from your own vantage point. From where I am, I am seeing more parents who are choosing to home educate for academic reasons instead of purely religious reasons. I am seeing more parents who have some absolutely rocking plans laid out. I see parents following through on those plans. I do see some posts that make me cringe, but I see less of them on this particular forum than in other places.

 

I could list all of the frightening things I've seen posted by veteran homeschoolers, some with graduated children. I could point out the eqully frightening things I see from public school educators. It wouldn't add to the discussion, so I won't. I just don't think this is specifically a young mother problem when the poor results seem to be growing from a few entrenched branches of home educating. It seems to be a problem of philosophical origin instead of parental ability and education, again from my vantage point.

 

I do strongly believe that there are some parents who shouldn't home educate. I don't think more regulation would help because I see examples of educational neglect in this high regulation state. I think parents who have devoted time and energy and passion to the education of their children are unlikely to become the examples cited in this thread.

 

And I'm adding a :001_smile: here because I think everyone just wants to do the best they can for the children in their care.

 

:iagree:

[Mommyfaithe]

It is not being able to sit in class at 6, it is discipline and motivation. Teach your child self-discipline by slowly letting them do more and more on their own - in school and life; help them find a career path that motivates them to do well and work hard. With those two things a student will do well as they move into college work.

 

I saw people from my college prep high school fail classes in college and flounder because they had no direction. They were prepared for college level work, but had NO CLUE what they wanted to do with their lives because they had no practical life experience. They had played high school football, but never had a job. They were not going to be pro-football players, but a few did play in college. They all picked a random major, hated their classes and then partied college away. For some, after playing around and finally having to get a job, they found a passion and finished school.

 

I also saw public school grads struggle because they could not take notes. They did not know how to write papers. THE WORST were the 2 public school teachers who were in my master's program who did NOT know how to write a research paper. Both had education degrees and taught theatre. One middle school, one high school.

 

It is not just homeschoolers who struggle. There are people who will struggle no matter what type of education they receive. That is why it is great to have so many options for education. You can find what fits your child and your family. For some, homeschooling in elementary and early middle school is a much better option, but high school credit needs to be done in a school. Nothing wrong with that choice. Others want to homeschool and add co-ops or cc classes. Again, if that is how your child will gain the best education, that is what you should do.

 

The only thing that I can say I do not think should EVER happen is a child sitting at home with mom all day everyday doing school and everything else with mom and never seeing or interacting with other kids or people. Even church for an hour a week is generally not enough. They need to be in the world a bit learning how to interact with people of all ages; not just mom and dad. They need some sort of outside activity: dance, gymnastics, choir, drama, art lessons, 4-h, scouts, sports teams, special interest clubs, debate team, etc.

 

:iagree: With this as well....very well said.

[melissel]

I'm thinking for the purposes of the discussion, "younger generation" may include those in the <26 years old. However, someone else may differ on that.

 

The problem with this argument is that Joanne is teaching middle-school- to high-school-aged kids. Her conclusions are based on those homeschooled kids. So the younger-generation factor would not be at play in her experience. And I just noticed a quote from Tibbie Dunbar talking about "those of us homeschooling teens who have slipped in under the wire." Again, the negative experiences that many shared here were with older homeschooled kids. So clearly the "older generation" (and I hate to use that phrasing, since I'm apparently one of them :lol:) must also be doing something wrong, no?

[Aelwydd]

The problem with anecdotal evidence is that there are so many uncontrolled variables. The subject matter (students) is also a problem even in a controlled study because there is only so much that they can control. When you are "studying" a subject like homeschooling it gets even harder because homeschooling is less homogenous than public schools - unless you were to do a study on everyone who uses ABeka DVDs or Sonlight exactly as it is out of the box.[/Quote]

 

Oh sure, I agree with all of this. I did say that anecdotal evidence is considered weaker than other forms. It shouldn't be the basis, in and of itself, as any sort of broad generalization. But it's useful to compare with population studies, and as a launching point for asking more questions, and for new studies.

 

I've stopped telling people I meet that we homeschool unless I absolutely have to. Before I tell them, my children are just "normal" kids with some to learn with regards to the world, social interactions and academics. As soon as I tell people I homeschool, that spelling mistake in the thank you card becomes an indictment on homeschooling. That socially awkward moment on the playground becomes another indictment on homeschooling.

 

There is a reason that there are books out there like "The Crumpled Paper was Due Last Week". And there is a reason why there are study skills courses for college students. These books and courses were not created solely for homeschoolers.

 

Yes, we should be aware of our children's study skills, social skills and organizational skills just as any parent should be. Just because we homeschool doesn't mean that we shouldn't be aware of those things. And just because someone has their child in public school doesn't mean that they shouldn't be aware of those things either.

 

Agreed on all of this.

[VinNY]

Wow..First a qualifier..I have been homeschooling on the East Coast (NY) for over 15 years. I have 8 kids.

2 hs through high school. Others went off to private Catholic High school, my special ed student has segued to public school this year for services.

 

Here are my thoughts..as an older homeschooler whose btdt, we can tend to get cynical. I have found I limit myself around the eager young homeschooling Moms because I don't want to ruin their "exuberance and dreams". I had that once and it sustained me through the first 10 years of hs. I produced excellent students and fine young people through homeschooling and private high school education for one son.

 

The new homeschool Moms I have just met are Harvard, MIT etc graduates. I am totally impressed. They are better educated then I am:)

 

As an oldie,we do have wisdom to share, which I think has been expressed here. Mainly, if you are looking to homeschool for excellence, please know it is hard work. I think we also need to recognize that many people have chosen to homeschool to purposefully keep their children out of the world and to be different either for religious reasons or lifestyle choices. So be it. Sometimes you will then see what the OP has described. At my oldest dtr's college, some of the homeschool boys didn't know what to do around girls. They asked the Dean if the girls could wear longer skirts and shirt sleeves. Seems elbows and knees were causing them distraction:glare: But their homeschooling was successful because that IS what they wanted!

 

Personally, I will no longer homeschool boys through high school:) We will send them to a private school.

 

Every family has their own dynamics, you need to trust that. I went into homeschooling one year at a time. I read "Homeschooling for Excellence" Charlotte Mason, Laura Berquists' book and then WTM. With all my children, I followed MODG's syllabi. We worked hard, chanted latin, memorized catechism questions and read and read. I still feel that I am at a 4th grade level with Latin:), yet all my children have excelled in a language I do not know, took higher level math than myself and aced the grammar/writing sections for the ACT and SAT and any college placement tests (except for the SN child of course) even though I couldn't do the same. I simply raised the bar for them, used outside sources in the high school years,etc.

 

Our little social group which included a Jewish, Quaker, Unitarian Universalist & Methodist family etc have produced Ivy League students (Dartmouth, Sarah Lawrence, Bard, MIT) What did they have in common? Mom read WTM and followed the history cycle. Outsourced for math and science at community college.

 

Homeschooling is alot of work, besides teaching and finding social time and activities for the kids, you also have to clean and cook. But I did it ..I can't believe how much energy and focus I had. I also didn't spend alot of time on the internet in those days, so that helped. I stuck with a script and followed what other successful homeschoolers did.

 

So concentrate on the good, recognize that your children will be different but it can be in a good way. They are being privately educated, and when I worked in NYC , I saw a huge difference between private school graduates and public schooled graduates. I wanted the former. (elitist view from a child of a poor working class family:lol:)

 

Now I am down to just a 12th grader at home working independently. She received a letter from Yale two weeks ago asking her to apply. She would like to go to Hamilton. The rest are in private school and 2 are at the public school. Someone asked me why not keep on homeschooling with success like that. Well I ran out of steam, I am not well and the kids deserve a teacher who has her head in the game.Don't tell me I don't pray enough either or that I am in sin:tongue_smilie:

 

Who knows what next year or two years will bring?

 

Ayway..homeschooling works when the home educator works.

[Aelwydd]

The problem with this argument is that Joanne is teaching middle-school- to high-school-aged kids. Her conclusions are based on those homeschooled kids. So the younger-generation factor would not be at play in her experience. And I just noticed a quote from Tibbie Dunbar talking about "those of us homeschooling teens who have slipped in under the wire." Again, the negative experiences that many shared here were with older homeschooled kids. So clearly the "older generation" (and I hate to use that phrasing, since I'm apparently one of them :lol:) must also be doing something wrong, no?

 

Yes, but the age-related discussion wasn't borne directly out of response to her observations. What it stemmed from was a statement about how education in the US, overall, is not very amazing. Then, that turned into a question about whether a decline in education has been going on for the last few generations (plural), and then it got focused into a specific comparison between the new hs'ers out there now, with the previous generation. And then, Mary had a little lamb. . .

 

300 posts later... :D

[melissel]

Yes, but the age-related discussion wasn't borne directly out of response to her observations. What it stemmed from was a statement about how education in the US, overall, is not very amazing. Then, that turned into a question about whether a decline in education has been going on for the last few generations (plural), and then it got focused into a specific comparison between the new hs'ers out there now, with the previous generation. And then, Mary had a little lamb. . .

 

300 posts later... :D

 

Hmm, OK, side points. I think I got it :D

[9763653]

I'm thinking for the purposes of the discussion, "younger generation" may include those in the <26 years old. However, someone else may differ on that.

 

So, was this (perceived or actual) decline in the quality of education in the US something that happened gradually and organically, or is it specifically due to a change in the system that happened at a certain point?

 

I am quite interested in the education system in the US, because even though we don't live there, my DD is enrolled in a private umbrella school in the US, and that school will hold us to the standards of the state it is located in. The standards are less rigorous than in some other countries, like the UK, but my first-grader would not even be in school yet in our country of residence, because it starts so late.

 

As for here, in an Eastern European country that is going through many changes, the post-communist government is playing games with the public schools - seemingly without considering how it will affect outcomes, simply to please the European Union. Students get their diploma with a skill set that would probably scare those people some of you are saying scare you!

 

Public schools have been in transition, just like the rest of society, for the last 20 years. But the real decline in quality seems to be happening right now. Public schools are probably paint an accurate picture of processes going on in the rest of society. Some are positive, others not.

[Aelwydd]

They are being privately educated, and when I worked in NYC , I saw a huge difference between private school graduates and public schooled graduates. I wanted the former. (elitist view from a child of a poor working class family:lol:)

 

Now I am down to just a 12th grader at home working independently. She received a letter from Yale two weeks ago asking her to apply. She would like to go to Hamilton. The rest are in private school and 2 are at the public school. Someone asked me why not keep on homeschooling with success like that. Well I ran out of steam, I am not well and the kids deserve a teacher who has her head in the game.Don't tell me I don't pray enough either or that I am in sin:tongue_smilie:

 

Who knows what next year or two years will bring?

 

 

I'm so offended by your elitist, sinful thoughts. :tongue_smilie: Alas, I will now have to quit schooling my child due to my outrage.

 

Good post. ;)

[Aelwydd]

So, was this (perceived or actual) decline in the quality of education in the US something that happened gradually and organically, or is it specifically due to a change in the system that happened at a certain point?

 

I am quite interested in the education system in the US, because even though we don't live there, my DD is enrolled in a private umbrella school in the US, and that school will hold us to the standards of the state it is located in. The standards are less rigorous than in some other countries, like the UK, but my first-grader would not even be in school yet in our country of residence, because it starts so late.

 

As for here, in an Eastern European country that is going through many changes, the post-communist government is playing games with the public schools - seemingly without considering how it will affect outcomes, simply to please the European Union. Students get their diploma with a skill set that would probably scare those people some of you are saying scare you!

 

Public schools have been in transition, just like the rest of society, for the last 20 years. But the real decline in quality seems to be happening right now. Public schools are probably paint an accurate picture of processes going on in the rest of society. Some are positive, others not.

 

Honestly, these are all questions I wanted to explore in the spin off thread I created earlier. I tend to lean towards gradually and organically, as a result of a sea change in overall public perception and attitudes towards science and objectivism.

[justamouse]

Ayway..homeschooling works when the home educator works.

 

I love your post.

[Colleen in NS]

Wow. I have never felt so discouraged about HSing as I do right now. And I'm pretty dang hard on myself in general. I didn't feel that way through most of the thread, but I surely do now. There's no way that I'll be able to hit every single crucial element at the top level, whether I use the WTM faithfully or not. I'm not sure why I'm bothering now.

 

Chin up, you will be fine. Try to filter out what you are perceiving as negative, and focus on the positive. I for one remember when you so desperately wanted to quit your job and make it financially possible for you to homeschool in the first place. I was so excited for you when that all finally happened - if I recall, it took at least a year or two of precise planning? Someone with your kind of determination to make that work (esp. in your expensive state!) definitely has what it takes to succeed in somehow providing an excellent education for your kids.

 

I do believe in reality checks. I do believe the advice should be buck up and get organized. Buck up and get going. Look at what you're doing wrong and fix it. But it shouldn't be with a tone of condescension or hypocrisy. That helps no one.

 

:iagree: The way words are used in writing affect tone. Tone affects how information is received, no matter if it's positive info. or a critique.

 

I believe you can still view the old boards out in cyber-land. It would be interesting to read the struggles of this same group of folks 10 years ago. There are seasons to everything. Even going to the last page of threads when the board began in 2008 proved very interesting for me a few days ago.

 

Oh darn!!! I have the old boards in a bookmark, but the link isn't working!! I will try again later. I agree; it would be very useful to read of people's journeys (although I cringe to think about some things I wrote when my kids were littler - although that was later in "old board-dom" :lol:).

 

As to how people are responding, I think you came close to hitting then nail on the head. It's pretty easy to have an academic response when things are going swimmingly. There seems to be no allowance or tolerance for the feelings of those who are shaken though. Don't most of us have have periods of feeling successful and feeling unsure? We're obviously more vulnerable to self-doubt during the unsure periods.

 

:iagree:

 

We're at Critical Factor around here with the homeschooling and I should have just stayed out of it entirely. I was/am panicked and defensive, and I admit that I'm not as clear-headed as I hope to be by the end of the semester. I'm certainly not as objective as I'd like to be!

 

To all the newbies: I sincerely apologize. You all are scaring the pants off of me but who cares? Who am I, anyway? You are asking, you are learning, and your story is not yet written. You are in your Teacher Training years and that can be a messy process. It was soooo long ago for me that I've lost some understanding for your stage of life, I guess. I didn't realize that had turned into one of 'those' older women. Yuck. Anyway, I will do my best to help and encourage instead of wondering why you aren't farther along.

 

...

 

Don't look for me anymore on threads like this. I can't take it. ...dedicated homeschooling works.

 

Oh, no you don't - I WILL be looking for you!!! See, it's these kinds of posts that keep me going and keep me hopeful that I can do this somehow, because I know there are others out there like me. And kudos to you for reaching out in this way to newer homeschoolers who are expressing discouragement.

 

 

I see you, Mom reading to the two-month-old babies. :lol:

 

I thought she rocked! It bothered me to see what happened in that thread. I hope she sticks around.

 

Should I just pretend the 16 years of homeschooling never existed? Should I crawl under a rock, ignore the friendships I've had here, just because I'm no longer a homeschooler? Should I pretend I never wrote a science curriculum (published, carried in Rainbow Resource catalog)? Should I just go away?

 

Honestly. Some of us have actually earned the right to be here and share our experiences, whether you want to hear them or not.

 

Of course you shouldn't pretend all that, and please stick around. But by being interested in our children's education, we ALL have earned the right to be here and share our experiences - even the person whose oldest is 5 and who is saying that "no, you don't *have* to teach your 2 yo to read yet, but if he's having fun learning the phonograms, have at it!".

 

I appreciated your posts in the past when you used to participate as a current homeschooler - you had, and I'm sure still have LOTS of valuable input to give for specifics of teaching - I know I got a great idea from you a long time ago, and that idea still works for me today. I just think that in this thread, you have come across a little too judgmentally (posts 28 and 172 specifically). I don't know if you were ever unconfident about your teaching when your kids were little, but some of us are, but we can still turn out to be great teachers for our own kids with *positive encouragement* from veterans.

 

Aaarrrggg - This *IS* what I said. Or what I tried to say. Obviously I didn't manage to say it.

Obviously I should stay off the boards today, I am doing such a bad job of explaining myself.

 

Nope, you are not doing a bad job explaining yourself. You further explained in your linked post. That second post helped me, and I for one understood you.

Edited September 21, 2011 by Colleen in NS

[Nan in Mass]

Second piece of what I was trying to say (nothing like having to post between doing other things):

 

About aclimatizing to school - I think if you have a normal (whatever that is) child who is homeschooling because your particular school is bad, and when that situation changes, you plan to send him to school, then your child may, if you have done a good job with those things that I keep mentioning, aclimatize to learning in a school situation just fine. But, as is often the case, you are homeschooling because your child is unusual in some way, then I think is possible, depending on the unusualness, the child may not aclimatize to school learning. In some cases (hopefully my cloud child's among them), putting off school until the child is older and educating him at home in the meantime may be enough to make it so that the child is able to cope with it. For these children, some sort of transition between the two may be very important (outsourcing). For these children, it is important to find non-academic ways for them to learn to do hard things and work with other people. It is like the question of whether or not you need to teach lots of grammar. If you are naturally talented at picking out those patterns, then the answer is no, you don't need much grammar. It is handy but not essential. If, on the other hand, you have trouble picking out those patterns, then grammar is going to be very important indeed.

 

-Nan

[melissel]

I'm sorry you read all that into this thread.

 

justamouse, most of what upset me was not written by you (less even than I originally thought, as it turns out). I'm honestly not ticked at any one poster in this thread, not Joanne or Tibbie or justamouse, or anyone.

 

So much of this part of the discussion in this thread sounds like the rosy "Back in my day..." memories. I just wonder how much the change in perspective from relatively new homeschooler still finding her way to veteran homeschooler years removed from that time of life where she was groping around to find what worked and what didn't is driving the part of this discussion that's bothering me the most. I remember reading a long thread about how people found time to keep a clean house and homeschool. The vast majority of the posters who had responses like, "Oh, it's easy, you just make a routine and keep it!" all had older children. The vast majority of the people struggling all had younger children. This discussion strikes me as similar.

Edited September 21, 2011 by melissel
Argh! Rewriting to reflect my mistake...

[Aelwydd]

j

And by far, most of what upset me was not written by you. The use of the word loser was, IMO, particularly unhelpful and uncalled for though, and hurt my heart for those posters you singled out.

 

Wait a minute. Call me inattentive, but I thought that the "loser" terminology was first used by those offended by the "negative" reporting going on by others?

[Nan in Mass]

I think you are perhaps right about what is happening here. Sometimes the mothers who are dealing with the scariness of high school (and it IS scary) and the stress of dealing with teenagers and the worry of young adults in general get to talking among themselves. When that happens, they sometimes sound rather weary. Then some of the mothers of younger ones begin to get worried about homeschooling, not realizing that a lot of the worry would happen no matter where school was supposed to be taking place, and say, "But I thought you were for homeschooling?" You can be for something but still worry that your children will come out ok. You can be for something in general but still worry about whether you personally are going to be able to pull it off. You can be for something and still be aware that there are situations under which that something might not be the best choice, or might be the lesser of two evils. Between the mothers of older ones being distracted and worried and not doing the best writing job, and the mothers with toddlers on their laps not doing the best reading job, a real snarl can occur.

Nan

[melissel]

Wait a minute. Call me inattentive, but I thought that the "loser" terminology was first used by those offended by the "negative" reporting going on by others?

 

Oh carp. That is so not my recollection, but now I'll have to go and look.

[Aelwydd]

Oh carp. That is so not my recollection, but now I'll have to go and look.

 

Well, I'll take your word for it, when you find it. I'm so not re-reading all of this, lol.

[melissel]

Well, I'll take your word for it, when you find it. I'm so not re-reading all of this, lol.

 

You were right. I was confusing what I'd read today (when the discussion started to disturb me) with what I'd read yesterday (when I was still getting splinters on the fence). I fixed my response to justamouse. My very sincere apologies for misquoting her.

[Aelwydd]

Ok, this is my first recollection of the use of the term "loser" in the thread. But, I may have missed something.

[Aelwydd]

You were right. I was confusing what I'd read today (when the discussion started to disturb me) with what I'd read yesterday (when I was still getting splinters on the fence). I fixed my response to justamouse. My very sincere apologies for misquoting her.

 

We cross-posted! This thread is very confusing. I need a beer.

[melissel]

Chin up, you will be fine. Try to filter out what you are perceiving as negative, and focus on the positive. I for one remember when you so desperately wanted to quit your job and make it financially possible for you to homeschool in the first place. I was so excited for you when that all finally happened - if I recall, it took at least a year or two of precise planning? Someone with your kind of determination to make that work (esp. in your expensive state!) definitely has what it takes to succeed in somehow providing an excellent education for your kids.

 

Thanks for saying that, Colleen :grouphug: I so hope you're right. There's so much pressure to get everything exactly right. Get enough exercise! Make sure they don't go to college with those writing writing deficiencies HSers seem have! But make sure they also don't have those math and science deficiencies either! And don't forget nature study! Teach them that schoolwork's not optional when they're young, but don't use a curriculum, let your babies be babies! Teach them how important the arts and humanities are--do plays and sing songs, but make sure your academics are rigorous enough too--remember, writing...science...math! Make sure they can participate in the Great Conversation, they have to be culturally literate! But make sure you minimize bad influences! And they have to be socialized--they can't go to college and be seen as social morons who can't find their way to their buildings. But not too socialized, like those PS kids who don't care about anything but texting! Get out of the house and take classes and meet people--but don't forget that rigorous academic day! And take time for yourself or you'll burn out!

 

It's all very conflicting and overwhelming, and there really seems to not be enough time in the day for all of it.

Edited September 21, 2011 by melissel

[melissel]

We cross-posted! This thread is very confusing. I need a beer.

 

:lol: I need some ibuprofen!

[Jean in Newcastle]

Thanks for saying that, Colleen :grouphug: I so hope you're right. There's so much pressure to get everything exactly right. Get enough exercise! Make sure they don't go to college with those writing writing deficiencies HSers seem have! But make sure they also don't have those math and science deficiencies either! And don't forget nature study! Teach them that schoolwork's not optional when they're young, but don't use a curriculum, let your babies be babies! Teach them how important the arts and humanities are--do plays and sing songs, but make sure your academics are rigorous enough too--remember, writing...science...math! Make sure they can participate in the Great Conversation, they have to be culturally literate! But make sure you minimize bad influences! And they have to be socialized--they can't go to college and be seen as social morons who can't find their way to their buildings. Get out of the house and take classes and meet people--but don't forget that rigorous academic day!

 

It's all very conflicting and overwhelming, and there really seems to not be enough time in the day for all of it.

 

EXACTLY!

[8circles]

Thanks for saying that, Colleen :grouphug: I so hope you're right. There's so much pressure to get everything exactly right. Get enough exercise! Make sure they don't go to college with those writing writing deficiencies HSers seem have! But make sure they also don't have those math and science deficiencies either! And don't forget nature study! Teach them that schoolwork's not optional when they're young, but don't use a curriculum, let your babies be babies! Teach them how important the arts and humanities are--do plays and sing songs, but make sure your academics are rigorous enough too--remember, writing...science...math! Make sure they can participate in the Great Conversation, they have to be culturally literate! But make sure you minimize bad influences! And they have to be socialized--they can't go to college and be seen as social morons who can't find their way to their buildings. But not too socialized, like those PS kids who don't care about anything but texting! Get out of the house and take classes and meet people--but don't forget that rigorous academic day! And take time for yourself or you'll burn out!

 

It's all very conflicting and overwhelming, and there really seems to not be enough time in the day for all of it.

:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

[unsinkable]

[/u] Mom reading to the two-month-old babies. :lol:

 

 

 

 

I thought she rocked! It bothered me to see what happened in that thread. I hope she sticks around.

 

 

I need a link to this referenced thread. I read to my babies as soon as we got home from the hospital. Was someone giving this mom a hard time?

[FO4UR]

Thanks for saying that, Colleen :grouphug: I so hope you're right. There's so much pressure to get everything exactly right. Get enough exercise! Make sure they don't go to college with those writing writing deficiencies HSers seem have! But make sure they also don't have those math and science deficiencies either! And don't forget nature study! Teach them that schoolwork's not optional when they're young, but don't use a curriculum, let your babies be babies! Teach them how important the arts and humanities are--do plays and sing songs, but make sure your academics are rigorous enough too--remember, writing...science...math! Make sure they can participate in the Great Conversation, they have to be culturally literate! But make sure you minimize bad influences! And they have to be socialized--they can't go to college and be seen as social morons who can't find their way to their buildings. But not too socialized, like those PS kids who don't care about anything but texting! Get out of the house and take classes and meet people--but don't forget that rigorous academic day! And take time for yourself or you'll burn out!

 

It's all very conflicting and overwhelming, and there really seems to not be enough time in the day for all of it.

 

 

:iagree:

 

 

You have verbalized my dizzy indecision.

 

 

This is where I have to *force* myself to remember that I have set my sights so very high that *nobody* could possibly do *everything* I plan with excellence.

 

Mediocrity in some things is better than a catatonic stagnation in everything. That's not to say we should settled for a half-hearted job, but we have to accept our failures...and carry on, move along, plan the next week, do the next thing, try again and again and again and again and again...that trying again is the difference between ultimate success and failure.

 

We kid ourselves if we think we don't have a blind spot...or if we think we know all of our blind spots...even if we ARE experienced. Every.single.choice.in.life has good and bad consequences. All we can do is prioritize. Priorities change as families change, as children grow up, as one goal has been met, as we learn new things, as life carries on. That doesn't mean that we are now without a blind spot b/c we now see where we had a blind spot last week/year/decade...blindspots are fluid.

 

That said, I'm thankful for the warnings for possible pit-falls...even more thankful for the bridges built across those danger spots. I listen to all of these threads. The wisdom from so many posters here is a great influence in my hs. The wisdom gained from sitting down with *my* dc trumps it all, however.

[Ria]

We cross-posted! This thread is very confusing. I need a beer.

 

This.

[melissel]

Your snide tone is very rude.

 

Perhaps you have missed the part where my son failed out of the competitive liberal arts college and enlisted in the Marines? And now regrets his choices in college but has 4.5 years left to serve? And has already lost two friends to snipers in the past 2 months?

 

I don't consider him to be a homeschool success story by any means. His experiences in college changed the way I looked at my teaching, and what I was able to offer my kids at the higher levels.

 

My dd always had to work hard to get good grades. Studying was part and parcel of her behavior. Her twin, on the other hand, is uber-smart (reading at 2.5, algebra at 8, etc). How, then, could this kid fail out of college? Simple. He had never had to work hard in his life to get passing grades. He never had teachers demanding stuff of him...stuff he considered stupid but had to do anyway to pass the course. He was unprepared for college...not academically. That part was ok. It was everything else in his case that caused the problems.

 

The funny part, if one can find anything about his experience remotely funny, is that in his hardest subjects at college (engineering, calc 3 and 4) he got A's and B's (they were challenging, so he went). The "easy" classes he just skipped altogether.

 

Augh. Don't think I'm holding myself up as some type of pillar of homeschooling merit. My kids got into great colleges. But only one was prepared enough to succeed.

 

So, Ria, what would you have done differently? Knowing what you know, would you have not homeschooled? Do you think he would have fared any better ultimately if he had been in the school system?

[justamouse]

I am just realizing myself that I am getting older. I AM that mother. One day while Jumping in Puddles and I were at the lake, we had two gorgeous bikini clad young mommas behind us. They were preening, and setting things up just so. I was watching her toddler as he was playing in the lake with the older kids, and watching her preen.

 

And then the one momma's baby began to go under the water.

 

I lokoed back at her-still preening, I waited a blink to see if the lifeguards were going to get him and then I ran in, fully dressed, and pulled him out. I handed him over to her and proceeded to lecture her, and tell her that she still needs to watch for drowning while he sleeps.

 

I got that look. You know, that look that a younger mom gives an older mom? All I wanted to do was ask her how her adorable husband would feel when she told him that their baby son drowned while she was making sure she looked gorgeous. :glare:

 

I'm that PITA mom. That is how I view some of these threads that pop up. But here's the thing, I'm saying this stuff because I don't want you all to make the same mistakes. WHY? Why, when I've made enough?

 

Adjusting midcourse is doable, but it's **** hard. It's much easier to not make those course changes at all, but rather minor adjustments.

 

So much of this part of the discussion in this thread sounds like the rosy "Back in my day..." memories. I just wonder how much the change in perspective from relatively new homeschooler still finding her way to veteran homeschooler years removed from that time of life where she was groping around to find what worked and what didn't is driving the part of this discussion that's bothering me the most. I remember reading a long thread about how people found time to keep a clean house and homeschool. The vast majority of the posters who had responses like, "Oh, it's easy, you just make a routine and keep it!" all had older children. The vast majority of the people struggling all had younger children. This discussion strikes me as similar.

 

:grouphug::grouphug:

 

You're feeling overwhelmed, and yeah, that happens. Here's the thing, you need to connect these two. Those older mommas were telling you how to fix it. But the problem is that we have no magic sight into YOUR house, so the advice has to be hugely broad brushed-like you need a schedule. How that schedule looks is going to depend on YOUR family.

 

 

Thanks for saying that, Colleen :grouphug: I so hope you're right. There's so much pressure to get everything exactly right. Get enough exercise! Make sure they don't go to college with those writing writing deficiencies HSers seem have! But make sure they also don't have those math and science deficiencies either! And don't forget nature study! Teach them that schoolwork's not optional when they're young, but don't use a curriculum, let your babies be babies! Teach them how important the arts and humanities are--do plays and sing songs, but make sure your academics are rigorous enough too--remember, writing...science...math! Make sure they can participate in the Great Conversation, they have to be culturally literate! But make sure you minimize bad influences! And they have to be socialized--they can't go to college and be seen as social morons who can't find their way to their buildings. But not too socialized, like those PS kids who don't care about anything but texting! Get out of the house and take classes and meet people--but don't forget that rigorous academic day! And take time for yourself or you'll burn out!

 

It's all very conflicting and overwhelming, and there really seems to not be enough time in the day for all of it.

 

Ha, you got it right. It IS that overwhelming. But thankfully the days come one at a time, and each minute by minute.

[Ria]

So, Ria, what would you have done differently? Knowing what you know, would you have not homeschooled? Do you think he would have fared any better ultimately if he had been in the school system?

 

This is something dh and I have beat ourselves up over, and a big part of why we put the others in the school system.

 

Homeschooling was excellent for this child through middle school. It's the high school part that we wish we could do over. He homeschooled, went to an academic co-op, and took classes at the cc and a local private university. What he missed, though, was the crap that comes with high school...the busy work that has to be turned in in order to pass the class, the juggling a busy schedule while maintaining grades type of stuff. He was never pushed to do stuff he didn't want to do but HAD to do.

 

In college, you don't HAVE to go to class. No one is going to call mom and dad if you don't show up. Had he gone to high school, he would have learned that sometimes stuff just needs to be done. I seriously doubt he would have failed in high school because we would have been around to make sure he stayed on the straight and narrow path, lol. In college, he was on his own. He made some serious errors in judgement and is now paying the price.

 

As are dh and I. It's hard not to feel somewhat responsible.

[9763653]

I need a link to this referenced thread. I read to my babies as soon as we got home from the hospital. Was someone giving this mom a hard time?

 

The thread sounded a little suspicious to me, not because she said she read to her twins, but because they were adopted, and twins, and it all sounded a lot like "trolls" on other message boards. So, I am sorry to say I poked fun at her and mentioned she should be reading to her newly adopted twins in Latin.

 

She appears to be genuine though. I am too cynical. And new here too - weird story included. So I must eat humble pie.

[melissel]

This is something dh and I have beat ourselves up over, and a big part of why we put the others in the school system.

 

Homeschooling was excellent for this child through middle school. It's the high school part that we wish we could do over. He homeschooled, went to an academic co-op, and took classes at the cc and a local private university. What he missed, though, was the crap that comes with high school...the busy work that has to be turned in in order to pass the class, the juggling a busy schedule while maintaining grades type of stuff. He was never pushed to do stuff he didn't want to do but HAD to do.

 

In college, you don't HAVE to go to class. No one is going to call mom and dad if you don't show up. Had he gone to high school, he would have learned that sometimes stuff just needs to be done. I seriously doubt he would have failed in high school because we would have been around to make sure he stayed on the straight and narrow path, lol. In college, he was on his own. He made some serious errors in judgement and is now paying the price.

 

As are dh and I. It's hard not to feel somewhat responsible.

 

Thanks for sharing that with me. Your son sounds a lot like me. I did go to public HS, and I nearly failed out of college twice. I did manage to pull it together eventually, but the things you think he would have learned by running a regular high school schedule...I never learned at all. I was lucky that I found a major that allowed me to pull my grades up in a relatively easy way while I fixed some other things about the way I coped. So don't beat yourself up too much :grouphug:

[Jean in Newcastle]

This is something dh and I have beat ourselves up over, and a big part of why we put the others in the school system.

 

Homeschooling was excellent for this child through middle school. It's the high school part that we wish we could do over. He homeschooled, went to an academic co-op, and took classes at the cc and a local private university. What he missed, though, was the crap that comes with high school...the busy work that has to be turned in in order to pass the class, the juggling a busy schedule while maintaining grades type of stuff. He was never pushed to do stuff he didn't want to do but HAD to do.

 

In college, you don't HAVE to go to class. No one is going to call mom and dad if you don't show up. Had he gone to high school, he would have learned that sometimes stuff just needs to be done. I seriously doubt he would have failed in high school because we would have been around to make sure he stayed on the straight and narrow path, lol. In college, he was on his own. He made some serious errors in judgement and is now paying the price.

 

As are dh and I. It's hard not to feel somewhat responsible.

 

Ria, I think you are taking on too much in laying the blame for this at your feet. I went to a highly academic college prep boarding school. I never ever had to study. I went to college and started to flounder. The only reason I didn't was because I realized that there was a system to succeeding at college. I made a game of that system and graduated with high honors. I still hadn't really learned how to study though. It was only in graduate school that I was forced to see that I did not have any study skills. I also had some serious lapses in judgment during my younger years that led to alcohol abuse and stuff that even I won't mention publicly. There were consequences for all of that. I had to take responsibility for my own past failures. I never ever blamed my parents for those. And none of those things were avoided by not homeschooling.